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`However the Body of Christ is of a different order, KingPriests, where there is no `male or female, `differences. To be given a body like Christ`s, & where there is no marriage (in heaven) shows that it is a new body for a new order of beings.` |
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`I don`t really understand what you are trying to say.....What do you mean by a new order of beings. I can`t say I have ever heard that expression from a Christian point of view. Thank you.` |
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Now Christ being a High Priest shows that there are other priests, (High Priest over other priests) & these would be of the same order – King Priest |
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Gary was talking about the Temple & relating it to the Body of Christ, so I wanted to show that we have a different purpose than Israel. I said - |
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"However the Body of Christ is of a different order, KingPriests, where there is no `male or female,` differences. To be given a body like Christ`s, & where there is no marriage (in heaven) shows that it is a new body for a new order of beings." |
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`Is it because in heaven there is no marriage therefore it is okay for women to be called to the 5-fold ministry of teacher or pastor or evangelist or apostle?` |
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`New creations under Christ`s Royal Priesthood in the order of Melchizedek.` This is what I have written to Gary so I hope that is in language that we can understand & agree on. |
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Body of Christ - Kingpriests. `He has made us to be kingpriests to His God & Father...` (Rev. 1: 6) |
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KingPriests - Because of our carnal nature we all have to address the error of believing kingship means, "lording it over, superior, and other subservient, etc." Our selfishness desires to be kingpin. Have our own way, be first, be entitled etc, etc and this shows up in everyday life especially to those closest to us. Everyday we have the choice to be first or be the servant. Today's reading by the Holy Spirit through Gary is all about being that servant and that is the heart of what Christ means when He says that we will rule with Him. It is as a servant, (servant king). We find that hard to get our head around as these concepts seem totally opposite, but as we by the Holy Spirit learn to "rule our own spirit," and humble ourselves under His mighty hand, die to self daily then we are being prepared to - |
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"He has made us to be kings & Priests to His God & Father..." Rev. 1:6 |
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"However the Body of Christ is of a different order, KingPriests, where there is no "male or female, "differences. To be given a body like Christ's, & where there is no marriage (in heaven) shows that it is a new body for a new order of beings." |
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Christians believe that Jesus is the Messiah spoken of as "a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek" (Ps. 110:4), and so Jesus plays the role of the king-priest once and for all. According to the writer of Hebrews (7:13-17) Jesus is considered a priest in the order of Melchizedek because, like Melchizedek, Jesus was not a descendant of Aaron, and thus would not qualify for the Jewish priesthood under Law of Moses. Melchizedek is referred to again in Hebrews 5:6-10; Hebrews 6:20; Hebrews 7:1-21: "Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek"; and Hebrews 8:1. And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises" (Hebrews 7:5-6). If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law" (Hebrews 7:11-12). The author of the Epistle to the Hebrews in the New Testament discussed this subject considerably, listing the following reasons for why the priesthood of Melchizedek is superior to the Aaronic priesthood: 1.Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek; later, the Levites would receive tithes from their countrymen. Since Aaron was in Abraham's loins then, it was as if the Aaronic priesthood were paying tithes to Melchizedek. (Heb. 7:4-10) 2.The one who blesses is always greater than the one being blessed. Thus, Melchizedek was greater than Abraham. As Levi was yet in the loins of Abraham, it follows that Melchizedek is greater than Levi. (Heb. 7:7-10) 3.If the priesthood of Aaron were effective, God would not have called a new priest in a different order in Psalm 110. (Heb. 7:11) 4.The basis of the Aaronic priesthood was ancestry; the basis of the priesthood of Melchizedek is everlasting life. That is, there is no interruption due to a priest's death. (Heb. 7:8,15-16,23-25) 5.Christ, being sinless, does not need a sacrifice for his own sins. (Heb. 7:26-27) 6.The priesthood of Melchizedek is more effective because it required a single sacrifice once and for all (Jesus), while the Levitical priesthood made endless sacrifices. (Heb. 7:27) 7.The Aaronic priests serve (or, rather, served) in an earthly copy and shadow of the heavenly Temple, which Jesus serves in. (Heb. 8:5) The epistle goes on to say that the covenant of Jesus is superior to the covenant the Levitical priesthood is under. Some Christians hold that Melchizedek was a type of Christ, and some other Christians hold that Melchizedek indeed was Christ. Reasons provided include that Melchizedek's name means "king of righteousness" according to the author of Hebrews, and that being king of Salem makes Melchizedek the "king of peace." Heb. 7:3 states, "Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he (Melchizedek) remains a priest forever." Melchizedek gave Abraham bread and wine, which some Christians consider symbols of the body and blood of Jesus Christ, the sacrifice to confirm a covenant. |
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Protestantism Some Christian evangelicals and Messianic Jews hold that Christ will return as the true Messiah in the name. According to this view, which is taken from a literalist interpretation of Revelation 20, he will serve as both King and High Priest (e.g. the Melchizedek priesthood) in a coming millennium of the Messiah. A more common Protestant theological understanding simply holds that the mysterious Melchizedek priesthood refers to Jesus as the eternal priest. His once-made sacrifice fulfilled the need for atonement of sins and he currently rules within the Church. In this via traditions of the Book of Hebrews, Jesus has ever been, is, and will ever be the only totally perfect priest (Hebrews 9–-7). Amillennialists believe that the messiah has already come, and his earthly role has been fulfilled. This is contrary to millenarianism which expects a pre-millennial return of Christ as Messiah. Some Christians believe Jesus Christ the Son came to Earth at various times before the New Testament, including once as Melchizedek himself. These appearances are called Christophanies. Others still maintain that Melchizedek is actually Archangel Michael: Michael is designated in the apocryphal Book of Enoch and the canonical Book of Daniel as "the prince of Israel". He is the angel of forbearance and mercy (Enoch, xl:3) who taught Enoch the mysteries of clemency and justice (lxxi:2). In the book of Jubilees (i:27 and ii:1), the angel who is said to have instructed Moses on Mount Sinai and to have delivered to him the tables of the Law is most probably Michael. Still others believe that Michael is Jesus. |
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I still think an outline from Jman is needed first for comparison . . . |
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`I guess we don't think of ourselves as being priests in this capacity. |
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`Because of Jesus' death upon the cross of Calvary, all believers now have direct access to the throne of God as royal priests through Jesus Christ our great High Priest (Hebrews 4:14-16). |
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`I guess we don't think of ourselves as being priests in this capacity. |
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`Because of Jesus' death upon the cross of Calvary, all believers now have direct access to the throne of God as royal priests through Jesus Christ our great High Priest (Hebrews 4:14-16). |
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`When the Lord gave them the design of the temple, it was men who the Lord used to work in the temple, woman had an outer court. Why did not woman come into the temple to serve is some capacity? Because it was never the Lord's Will. It is no different today God has called men who are created in His image to run churches and have authority over them.` |
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Marilyn Wrote; William, Yes I mentioned Priesthood because that was what Gary was implying (Testimony of Discipling 10474). |
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Marilyn wrote: Now you know I don`t believe in that false teaching, more understanding is developing between us. You need to give me & others time to work through many topics in the Bible to understand where we are coming from. Of course I would expect you all to discern very carefully what I or anyone else says, but give time & grace for conversations to develop for the men & for the women. And note I do see long posts by men expounding on their thoughts too. Marilyn. |
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`Jesus gives believers the awesome responsibility to mediate (function as a priest) his gospel to others. We represent (minister) God to others and at the same time minister to God with our worship.` |
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`The OT priests had three basic functions: 1- To serve God, 2- To serve the people, 3- to offer sacrifices on behalf of the people (and themselves). The third function was rendered unnecessary by Jesus Christ.` |
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`In fact the whole idea of a physical priesthood was removed at the cross. (True) With that in mind, a royal priesthood, in the NT sense would be metaphorical and not literal.` |
Marilyn Crow wrote on Sat, 07 December 2013 16:27 |
If our priesthood is 'metaphorical,' not literal, then wouldn`t God have written, 'You are AS a royal Priesthood?' |
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Marilyn said: Yet we do minister to people & worship God as you said, so wouldn't it be true to say we are a spiritual priesthood. |
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`All believers are called to serve God and serve others as spiritual priests.` |
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"...that metaphorically speaking we are spiritual priests." We are not priests in the literal sense of the word. |
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`Here is 10474 I do not see anything about priesthood that your saying I am quoting. Seems like your putting words in my mouth here, that don't exist. |
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`When the Lord gave them the design of the temple, it was men who the Lord used to work in the temple..` |
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Christ`s priesthood is the reality not man`s copy & shadow given by God for us to understand Christ`s ministries. |
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`Okay, now you have switched from speaking about believers and suddenly you are speaking about Jesus who actually is the culmination of the priestly office.` |
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Please lay out this "Eternal Purpose/Melchizedeck" doctrine in a complete outline-type overview so I can see what I am getting into if I invest more time into this thread. |
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`Please lay out this "Eternal Purpose/Melchizedeck" doctrine in a complete outline-type overview so I can see what I am getting into if I invest more time into this thread.` |
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`Here is 10474 I do not see anything about priesthood that your saying I am quoting. Seems like your putting words in my mouth here, that don't exist. |
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`When the Lord gave them the design of the temple, it was men who the Lord used to work in the temple..` |
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I never called my beliefs a Melchizedek doctrine. Jman did that. (10545) `Please lay out this "Eternal Purpose/Melchizedeck" doctrine in a complete outline-type overview so I can see what I am getting into if I invest more time into this thread.` |
Marilyn Crow wrote on Sun, 08 December 2013 02:18 |
William, Christ is the Royal High Priest after the order of Melchizedek. I wrote that in my outline, Christ`s Priesthood & Kingship. The typology of that is as God`s word tells us, Melchizedek, a King Priest rather than just a priest, or just a king. |
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It is what we all know from scripture. The point of difference I see is that I believe we function as priests & kings, worshipping & serving, in the heavenly realms in eternity. I never called my beliefs a Melchizedek doctrine. Jman did that. (10545) |
What say we let her go, Jman? Gary? James?... She seems harmless enough... ...especially since she now knows the difference between doctrine and personal interpretation and seems to be picking up on some of our language... <grin>
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What say we let her go, Jman? Gary? James?... She seems harmless enough... ...especially since she now knows the difference between doctrine and personal interpretation and seems to be picking up on some of our language... <grin> Okay mate, you're free to go... sorry about the rope burns... those night shift guys can be brutal! <grin> Blessings, William |
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What say we let her go, Jman? Gary? James?... She seems harmless enough... ...especially since she now knows the difference between doctrine and personal interpretation and seems to be picking up on some of our language... <grin> Okay mate, you're free to go... sorry about the rope burns... those night shift guys can be brutal! <grin> Blessings, William |
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Marilyn wrote: Now you know I don`t believe in that false teaching...` |
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`All agree that : Melchizedek was of order of Melchizidek in the Old Testament. Jesus was/is of the order of Melchizedek.` |
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`Marylin, in past, present, or future - is anyone else of the order of Melchizedek?` |
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Marilyn wrote: Now you know I don`t believe in that false teaching...` |
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`Marylin, in past, present, or future - is anyone else of the order of Melchizedek?` |
wishing34 wrote on Sat, 07 December 2013 09:29 |
GWB, I have pretty much decided that my spoon is not big enough to bail out Marylin's ocean everyday so I thought I might give you more info as to what to watch out for. ============================= Example of Truth: Believers are "in Christ' this results in:
============================== ============================== Example of Silliness: Say someone convinced you that you are "in the order of James Bond" the movie spy this results in:
If you accept the premise that you are in the order of James Bond then you are open to many possible re-writes of Scriptural doctrines. The key is to sell you on the original premise. ============================== No one could sell you on the James Bond idea, but say someone convinced you that you are "in the order of Melchizedek" ( Note: Jesus is of the order of Melchizedek, but human beings are not. ) Now that person can define what the order of Melchizedek includes. Their definition is wide open because this Melchizedek doctrine is not in the Bible. If you have bought into their Melchizedek doctrine then they can have you dismiss other Scriptures because, after all, you are of the order of Melchizedek. ============================== Example of Dangerous: You are "in the order of Melchizedek" this results in:
Notice the results are not known/given - not until first you are sold on the Melchizedek doctrine. |
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`When the Lord gave them the design of the temple, it was men who the Lord used to work in the temple, woman had an outer court. Why did not woman come into the temple to serve is some capacity? Because it was never the Lord's Will.` |
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`Just a quick note of what I believe re the Temple. it was a structure given by God to show forth the Lord & His ministry. It was given to the nation of Israel who are ordered as you said. However the Body of Christ is of a different order, KingPriests, where there is no `male or female,` differences. To be given a body like Christ`s, & where there is no marriage (in heaven) shows that it is a new body for a new order of beings.` |
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Gary, William, Jman, Let`s have a good look at where this discussion started - Gary said - (in the discipling thread) |
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`Now Christ being a High Priest shows that there are other priests, (High Priest over other priests) & these would be of the same order – King Priest.` |
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"these would be of the same order" <- This premise is not substantiated. To think that redeemed people will be/are of the order of Melchizedek (king-priest) in God's eyes is a potentially dangerous idea. The "order of Melchizedek" was something unique to Jesus.` |
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Jman :"Decades ago I long endured much character assassination by secret, behind the scenes gossip and criticism." GWB: Well.....so did I. I was shunned and was the topic of a sermon. I endured a lot of heartache as well. |
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In short......WHO ARE YOU?? |
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`I am someone carrying baggage as I think I have said before..` |
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. . . so I will let you know if I think you were really a member of FA or not. |
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Jman wrote: Regarding that I do not take PM messages. ( or use backchannel emails ) I do not take PM messages because of baggage that is maybe unique to me ( and I am not criticle of PM's ) . Decades ago I long endured much character assasination by secret, behind the scenes gossip and criticism. So now I only communicate in the open. |
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GWB Wrote: OO is not a joke and a place to play games. We are in this for life and death. |