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Fast Uncompromising Discussions.Re: Gog and Magog
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13812&th=1323#msg_13812
Hi douggg,
Well you do get around. I come in and out every few years. Good people here.]]>Marilyn Crow2022-02-28T06:51:39-00:00Re: Gog and Magog
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13804&th=1323#msg_13804
Yes, it's me from Christian forum. Sorry for my chart being so big. It will take some time for me to adapt to the forum's software.
]]>douggg2022-01-23T22:53:58-00:00Re: Gog and Magog
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13803&th=1323#msg_13803
Did you get here from Christian forums? I seem to recall someone with that user name there. Just wondering.
It will take me a while to think over what you said.
]]>Mark L2022-01-23T13:55:22-00:00Re: Gog and Magog
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13802&th=1323#msg_13802
attachFull311383@William,
The great falling away (from believing Jesus is the messiah) in 2Thessalonian2:3 will be during the false messianic age.
On my chart below.
]]>douggg2022-01-21T19:32:03-00:00Re: Gog and Magog
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13801&th=1323#msg_13801
It is a general practice to refer to the arch villain of the end times as "the Antichrist". But that is a almost universal error.
The function role of Christ is to be the King of Israel, descended from King David. If you read John 12:12-13 and Mark 15:32, it is "Christ the King of Israel"
The "Anti" Christ is to be instead of and against Jesus the true Christ and rightful king of Israel, who came in the name of the Lord.
So when it come to the arch villain of the end times, we must approach it as a matter of function roles - just as we consider senator and president as different functional roles - even though it may be the same person.
In sequence, the person as the little horn becomes leader of the EU (the end times variant of the Roman Empire). Before the Gog/Magog event.
Then after Gog/Magog, he enters into the middle east under the guise of peace maker, as the prince who shall come, which the Jews will at that time perceive him to be messiah.
The false prophet anoints him as the King of Israel (coming in his own name), which makes the person the Antichrist functional role. Phony King of Israel.
In that functional role, he will have the law read to the nation of Israel from the temple mount (the place of God's choosing from Deuteronomy 31:9-13) to begin the seven years. It is not a peace treaty that has been popularized by what is in Daniel 8, about him destroying many by peace.
The 7 years comes from a requirement Moses made of all future leaders of Israel, in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.
Around 3 years into the 7 years, the Antichrist commits the "transgression of desolation", an act found in Daniel 8:12-13, the act of 2Thesslanoins2:4. Revealing himself to be the man of sin, and not the messiah after all, it will end his functional role as the Anti-christ.
The revealed man of sin will be killed for his audacious act, Ezekiel 28:1-10, and after his soul goes to hell, God in disdain for the person - a Jew - brings him back to life in Isaiah 14:18-20.
His soul restored to his lifeless body, is the deception that God sends in 2Thessalonians2, to them who initially believe his claim of having achieved God-hood.
No longer the Antichrist, because the Jews will reject him and his claim, the person upon being brought back to life is incarnated by the spirit of the original serpent beast of the garden of eden, making the person the beast.
As the beast functional role, he will be "dictator" of the EU, and the world, until Jesus returns.
The person will be a Jew and also descended from the Julio-Claudian bloodline, the kings of Revelation 17:10-11.]]>douggg2022-01-21T19:05:45-00:00Re: Gog and Magog
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13800&th=1323#msg_13800
Welcome to the forum!
I need to re-read all of what Mark wrote concerning this but off of the top of my head, after reading what you said, I'm wondering just how many of Israel will actually be "in the know" concerning the Gog/Magog event? If the Antichrist is able to work his deceptions during the 7 years how is it that so few "learned the lesson" of Gog/Magog?
Just trying to square it with Ezk. 39 and also Paul's re-iteration to the Thessalonians concerning the falling away and the revealing of the man of sin.
It almost seems that the Gog/Magog event, if this timeline is correct, will serve to confirm the Antichrist as opposed to its having the opposite effect of showing Israel the true Messiah.
I'm sorry, my brain is in a fog right now, I'll give it some more thought later-- I just read over what I just said and I'm not even sure I know what I mean!
Blessings,
William
]]>william2022-01-21T17:15:53-00:00Re: Gog and Magog
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13799&th=1323#msg_13799
douggg2022-01-21T16:25:18-00:00Re: Gog and Magog
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13758&th=1323#msg_13758
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UFVQI5z_yg]]>Mark L2021-06-26T15:09:40-00:00Re: Gog and Magog # 2
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13538&th=1326#msg_13538
Quote:
I thought they were destroyed at the battle of Armaggedon?
Gog/Magog are destroyed before the millennium (whether it is at the beginning of the tribulation or sometime during the tribulation, I'm not sure). The thing to remember though is that there will be people occupying those areas after the millennium and they, being aroused by Satan, will be involved, yet again, in an attempt to battle against God's people.
Blessings,
William
]]>william2020-08-19T01:48:40-00:00Re: Gog and Magog # 2
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13537&th=1326#msg_13537
william wrote on Fri, 14 August 2020 06:13
Garden conditions apply in the millennium but so does sin. At least to some extent.
Death also seems to exist and it's not until the "new heavens and new earth" that the curse is completely lifted:
[Rev 22:3 KJV] 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
I'm still not convinced that during the millennium the conditions would prohibit the burning of weapons. Yes, there will be "garden-like" conditions but life seems to go on as it does now with the exceptions being the nation of Israel, specifically Jerusalem.
It's not a big deal and I'm certainly not claiming a clear and absolute understanding, but if the only objection, to the timing of the Gog/Magog war, hinges on the seven year burning of the weapons not extending into the millennium, then I don't think it's a very strong argument.
Can't wait until you get into Zechariah!
Blessings,
William
Don't know the whole conversation here but I always thought Gog/Magog was destroyed before the tribulation. The other day I ran across this scripture:
Quote:
Rev. 20:7-8 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is the sand of the sea.
I thought they were destroyed at the battle of Armaggedon?
Any rate just wondering.
In Him,
Gary
]]>Gary2020-08-19T00:24:09-00:00Re: Gog and Magog # 2
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13536&th=1326#msg_13536
Quote:
William; listened to the tape from 26 to 38 was very interesting what was shared did not hear the vision part on there will try listening to more of the tape later. HF definitely did his research on the black muslims and the information on the black race.
I'm sorry Gary, I should have been clearer in what I posted. That youtube video just mentioned the 2 tapes on race relations... it didn't contain the vision.
I don't have a copy of the tape that contains the vision and I don't think it's among those uploaded to youtube, at least I couldn't find it.
Quote:
I do not have this book, "War on the Jews", by Josephus so was unable to verify information.
There are free copies/pdfs of Josephus' works on the internet, so you should be able to find it easily enough.
I think that those that believe that 70AD was the fulfillment the apocalyptic prophecies are called "Preterists". There's also a bunch of information out there on the net about them... of course, there are many many variations within that framework!
Blessings,
William
]]>william2020-08-15T23:04:20-00:00Re: Gog and Magog # 2
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13535&th=1326#msg_13535
Quote:
GARY Nice to see you back. I hope everything is going well for you.
Thank you doing much better. Started a prayer meeting in our house. The world seems to be changing rapidly, but I rest in the fact that the Lord is still in control.
William; listened to the tape from 26 to 38 was very interesting what was shared did not hear the vision part on there will try listening to more of the tape later. HF definitely did his research on the black muslims and the information on the black race.
I ran across something interesting concerning Matt. 24:1-2. You may have heard this information. These verses were a prophecy given by the Lord concerning the destruction of the temple.
In less then 70 years, Titus marched on Jerusalem with his armies. He laid siege to the city and waited for the Jews to starve. According to Josephus in the "War of the Jews", chapter seven there was more Jews that killed Jews in the city because of starvation, then the Roman soldiers that killed those who were left. Bands of Jews broke into each others houses and killed other Jews for food. When Titus finally marched on the city the people were nothing more then skeletons and he took the people and paraded them down the streets of Rome as his trophies.
Church tradition tells us that one night the church of Jerusalem that was in the city, received a prophecy from the Lord to get out of the city and use the east gate immediately. The story was told that the Romans forgot to put a guard on the east gate and the Christians escaped the horrible conditions that happened shortly later.
The conditions were worse then the holocaust, I do not have this book, "War on the Jews", by Josephus so was unable to verify information.
In Him,
Gary
James hope you got my text on C.S. Lewis.
]]>Gary2020-08-15T21:46:58-00:00Re: Gog and Magog # 2
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13534&th=1326#msg_13534
I found the quote on a YouTube video around the 36 minute mark. Here is the link:
Baha'ism, Black Muslims, Zen Buddhism, & Transcendental Meditation, Cults - Dr Hobart E Freeman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H6c35KX78o]]>william2020-08-14T20:42:20-00:00Re: Gog and Magog # 2
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13533&th=1326#msg_13533
Blessings,
William
]]>william2020-08-14T19:42:14-00:00Re: Gog and Magog # 2
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13532&th=1326#msg_13532
Gary wrote on Fri, 14 August 2020 18:01
Mark Wrote: "For a number of reasons but one good one is it just isn't time."
I don't understand how you can say: "it just isn't time". Do you mean; That something more needs to take place here in America?
GARY Nice to see you back. I hope everything is going well for you.
When I say it just isn't time it with the proviso that I was mainly giving my opinion. The Lord did give me some wisdom and then I added some careful analysis and thought.
One good reason for my statement of it not being time yet is that Jesus said that a great persecution has to come first. That is assuming, of course, that judgement on America is part of Gods endtime work and I think it is. Luke 21/12 Before God can deal with America in any really serious way he has to deal with American christians first. Or to put it in different terms - judgment has to start at the house of God.
It is highly interesting in light of current events your mention of Freemans vision of a faceless black man. I remember him mentioning it as well but don't know what series.
I think what we're seeing in America right now is just the faint far off rumbling thunders of the approaching storm.
]]>Mark L2020-08-14T19:36:59-00:00Re: Gog and Magog # 2
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13531&th=1326#msg_13531
I don't understand how you can say: "it just isn't time". Do you mean; That something more needs to take place here in America?
Jesus said, if the Man knew what hour the thief was coming he would of waited and watched. And that He the Lord was coming as a thief in the night.
What we see taking place in America is causing great internal strife. I just saw a you tube video where a woman is stating they do not care if they burn down America. She was filled with hate and vengeance. I got it from my barber who was filled with the same hate towards this country, I was shocked when she (my barber), was going off, on trump. They just had some big riots in Indianapolis with looting and burning.
HF stated God was going to judge America through the black race, he mentioned seeing a faceless black man in a vision. I don't remember for sure what series he shared that vision. I think were on the verge of either a great revival or maybe a great collapse and breakdown of society. Could this be a "deep wound" that you mentioned.
The winds of change are here. The Lord did tell Abraham that He would spare Sodom if ten righteous were in the city. I pray the Lord will continue His mercy on this nation. I keep thinking were not in Kansas anymore.
In Him,
Gary
]]>Gary2020-08-14T18:01:05-00:00Re: Gog and Magog # 2
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13530&th=1326#msg_13530
Quote:
Garden conditions apply in the millennium but so does sin. At least to some extent.
Death also seems to exist and it's not until the "new heavens and new earth" that the curse is completely lifted:
[Rev 22:3 KJV] 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
I'm still not convinced that during the millennium the conditions would prohibit the burning of weapons. Yes, there will be "garden-like" conditions but life seems to go on as it does now with the exceptions being the nation of Israel, specifically Jerusalem.
It's not a big deal and I'm certainly not claiming a clear and absolute understanding, but if the only objection, to the timing of the Gog/Magog war, hinges on the seven year burning of the weapons not extending into the millennium, then I don't think it's a very strong argument.
Can't wait until you get into Zechariah!
Blessings,
William
]]>william2020-08-14T06:13:50-00:00Re: Gog and Magog # 2
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13529&th=1326#msg_13529
Quote:
Zech 14 is talking about the battle of armageddon.
Oh, I forgot about that one! <grin>
Blessings,
William
]]>william2020-08-07T18:20:04-00:00Re: Gog and Magog # 2
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13528&th=1326#msg_13528
There is so much complexity in putting all of this together; I'm wondering if I'm missing something here?
Ya the bible doesn't just put it all together in one place in easy to read fashion. Its a really big subject. I've been going over all the Zech. tapes as I've been putting them up on my computer. Just one left. I found the info so detailed sometimes I didn't bother taking good notes. Zech 14 is talking about the battle of armageddon. Garden conditions apply in the millennium but so does sin. At least to some extent.
All the various views and objections I posted there came right out of my theology notes. With some light editing and paraphrasing.
My thoughts and opinions started with the Matt 25 stuff]]>Mark L2020-08-07T15:41:42-00:00Re: Gog and Magog # 2
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13527&th=1326#msg_13527
I'm not confident in placing too much emphasis on the chronological layout of Ezekiel but there is a progression from the dry bones to the Gog/Magog war and then to the millennial temple. I'll go back and read some of the objections you posted concerning the different views on the timing (pre-mid-post) of this war but right now it's looking more and more possible that this thing could be post-tribulation (or at least at the very end of tribulation). The garden of Eden conditions don't seem to be universal (or extend to all nations) if we take into consideration those nations that fail to come to Jerusalem during the feast of Tabernacles:
[Zec 14:16-19 KJV] 16 And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, [that] whoso will not come up of [all] the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that [have] no [rain]; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
There is so much complexity in putting all of this together; I'm wondering if I'm missing something here?
Blessings,
William
]]>william2020-08-07T03:04:03-00:00Re: Gog and Magog # 2
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13526&th=1326#msg_13526
It is hard to conceive of the heavenly city coming down and then being polluted with smoke from the fire though... idunno.
Blessings,
William
]]>william2020-08-06T14:26:48-00:00Re: Gog and Magog # 2
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13525&th=1326#msg_13525
william wrote on Thu, 06 August 2020 07:18
Okay, the suspense is killing us... do you have more? <grin>
Heh heh No more but I'm ready.
william wrote on Thu, 06 August 2020 07:08
Alright,
What's to keep this Gog/Magog war from happening so quickly that there isn't time for the U.S. to become involved? Yes, 5/6ths of a population is a lot of people to destroy but since God is the Avenger it could happen in minutes. If the evil alliance started marching today it could all be over in a couple of weeks.
My feeling from reading the passage is that the war goes on for a period of time. I think they attack when do because America is so involved with themselves. They take advantage of the situation.
As far as I understand it the face of the earth is recreated to garden conditions. So there wouldn't be fires burning then from the war.
There are also a couple of rather odd comments put in there and in the Joel passage that I wasn't sure about. I'll post them later and see what you think.
I'm going to go back over all the end time stuff and look at it for myself. Not so much the gog war but endtime in general. What Jesus said Danial Paul etc. I don't think I have ever really studied it through for myself. I just kind of took in the teaching as well as everything I heard over the years and left it at that.
]]>Mark L2020-08-06T13:32:51-00:00Re: Gog and Magog # 2
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13524&th=1326#msg_13524
Quote:
I'd also like to add about my comments on the Gog war. Mostly what I'm commenting on is to me just blindingly obvious. I think the Lord showed me a couple of things and gave me some wisdom on the matter but mostly it's just flat out reason. Plain thinking. No great supernatural revelations although "ahem" I'm standing ready for one Lord.
Okay, the suspense is killing us... do you have more? <grin>
Blessings,
William
]]>william2020-08-06T07:18:01-00:00Re: Gog and Magog # 2
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13523&th=1326#msg_13523
You've already given some possible answers to the "where's America" question so I'll only add to the possibilities by saying: What's to keep this Gog/Magog war from happening so quickly that there isn't time for the U.S. to become involved? Yes, 5/6ths of a population is a lot of people to destroy but since God is the Avenger it could happen in minutes. If the evil alliance started marching today it could all be over in a couple of weeks.
Next, is the problem you raised concerning the 7 year bond-fire which admittedly caused me a little consternation since you said there wasn't enough time for this to happen if the war took place mid-tribulation.
After thinking about this I'm not so sure it's as big of a deal as it was at first glance. I think that I mentioned that I didn't see too much of a problem if the war was at the beginning of the tribulation which would allow for a full seven years of weapon burning, obviously alleviating that issue. However...
Why must we assume that there won't be people burning fires throughout the 1000 year reign of Jesus? If so, the Gog/Magog war could be pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation or even post-tribulation and the fires could continue to burn for a full seven years even as Jesus reigned from His Throne in Jerusalem! Wouldn't this satisfy your objection as to the time of the war?
Of course, there could be a passage somewhere that intimates that burning the implements of war during the millennium is a no-no... in which case I will stand corrected if it's produced!
Oh, and before I forget, I said somewhere that the reason for the war could be simply hatred of Israel (and I mentioned oil as a possibility too)... but after re-reading the passage (Ezk 38:12-13) God indicates that the reason may be simply to "take a great spoil" or "prey" or "cattle and goods" or even "silver and gold"; so while an irrational hatred of Israel (we see that everywhere in the area today!) might be one of the motives, it doesn't seem to be the main motivation.
Blessings,
William
]]>william2020-08-06T07:08:47-00:00Re: Gog and Magog # 2
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13520&th=1326#msg_13520
Quote:
Here is another question. Aside from the supernatural element ie: God putting a hook into Gog's mouth Why would Gog even try? America has been behind every war Israel has fought but it has always been on the diplomatic & supply side. They were all regional wars so no reason for America to get involved.
Not sure about the answer but oil seems to be the most accepted reason they would attack, but you can't rule out just plain old hatred!
Also you can't just leave out the supernatural hooks-in-the-jaw reason.
The fact that it is God that has them hooked may give us a clue about the lack of US involvement... maybe there's another hook that is pulling on the good-old USofA during that time!
Blessings,
William
]]>william2020-08-05T19:45:25-00:00