Home » Theological Doctrine » NT Theology » Gleanings from the "Gospels"
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #12141 is a reply to message #11958] |
Sun, 04 December 2016 15:53 |
|
Gary Messages: 1025 Registered: August 2008 Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
|
|
It appears Mark 16: poses a dilemma when witnessing to born again Christians who have been indoctrinated into the present day system of Christianity, "concerning" the Baptism of the Spirit!
Quote: |
14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; [b]18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
|
There it is in plain English. When sharing with someone concerning the Baptism, it says: And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
Invariably the person points out that: 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; these people (that were witnessing to), tell us; do we take up serpents?
Recently when this event took place while sharing with someone, I thought of Paul who picked up a pile of wood and a serpent comes out and bites him, and this poisonous snakes venom did him no harm.
But upon further evaluation(while setting there thinking), I realized what took place with Paul left a lame argument to tell this person concerning what this verse was referring to.
I don't know if anyone can completely understand what is written here in this portion of scripture when it comes to "they will take up serpents", as it is written in the Book of Mark. I tried to rationalize in my mind maybe this has something to do with the demonic realm involving deliverance, but the Bible goes on to say if they drink any deadly poison.
We do have groups who physically take up rattle snakes in their meetings, they believe their obeying these scriptures. But with that in mind I don't believe the Lord wants us to bring serpents to the weekly meeting to prove we have faith. I can just picture the scenario: who has the anointing to handle the "black Mamba" tonight? If they did not have a back door in the church I would be making one.
What does God mean here, when it comes to taking up serpents and drinking poison?
At face value I could justify drinking deadly poison if we as Christians were forced to drink it, I believe God would protect us as He has promised. But your still faced with the fact that says; "they" will take up serpents. There has never been an situation throughout history involving Christians taking up serpents. It says those who believe that "they", will take them up.
Let every word be established in the mouth of two or three witnesses. We don't find this message contained in the rest of the New Testament or mentioned as a practice in the book of Acts.
In the margin in my Bible it states: Verses 9-20 are bracketed in NU-Text as not original. They are lacking in Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus, although other manuscripts of Mark contain them.
That sounds like a plausible simple answer, remove them; there not in certain original manuscripts, but we find not only is taking up serpents removed, and drinking any deadly poison, but the entire last portion of Mark's gospel is removed. "The great commission, speaking in tongues, laying hands on the sick, etc,".
It's interesting that the great commission is a regular teaching at most churches, but speaking in tongues in not accepted because its included in the sentence concerning taking up serpents. These verses were all given at the same time before Jesus ascended up into Heaven.
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
At this point I have been unable to come to a clear understanding, I have to just accept these verses exist in Mark's gospel. I'm glad at this point that when someone came to me and told me about receiving the Baptism of the Spirit, that I had no knowledge that these other verses existed, I had not been indoctrinated at this point in time.
When we look through scripture on how the Apostles ministered we find a pattern. Paul made it clear when he said; Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed? They replied we have only been baptised with John's baptism. Just like Mark 16 we see a group of born again believers who just had not heard about the baptism. These men were saved, followers of Jesus and His teaching.
Quote: |
19 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.
|
Twelve men willingly received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.
For some reason people because of doctrines or traditions feel that your questioning their salvation experience when you tell them about this experience.
Note: 17 And these signs will follow those who believe:
There's nothing in this statement concerning their salvation. In fact the very verse before this is quite clear.
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
If someone believes that Jesus is Lord and He died for their sins, and their baptised,(in water), they shall be saved. but he who does not believe Jesus died for their sins will be condemned.
I think this is emphatic concerning ones salvation. It goes on to say if they believe they will speak with new tongues. Paul when he met the men in Acts 19;, did not question their salvation but he went on to minister a further blessing for believers.
So were left with questions here; Is there a deeper meaning in these verses, like a hidden parable? Whatever the reason these verses are found in Mark, I find it harder to minister to someone who has held to certain doctrines concerning the Baptism. Maybe one day the Lord will give us understanding concerning what is meant here.
Until then, I have decided only to take people to the book of Acts 19:, when asking them if they received the Holy Spirit since they believed.
Gary
|
|
|
|
Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Fri, 10 January 2014 13:45 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sat, 11 January 2014 12:48 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: william on Sat, 11 January 2014 16:09 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Sat, 11 January 2014 20:34 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sun, 12 January 2014 10:33 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Mon, 13 January 2014 21:19 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Tue, 14 January 2014 07:24 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Tue, 14 January 2014 17:06 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Wed, 15 January 2014 00:05 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Wed, 15 January 2014 06:32 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Thu, 16 January 2014 18:15 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Fri, 17 January 2014 14:30 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Fri, 17 January 2014 14:43 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sat, 01 February 2014 12:19 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sun, 02 February 2014 11:52 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Mon, 03 February 2014 10:48 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Mon, 03 February 2014 14:46 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Tue, 04 February 2014 10:19 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Tue, 04 February 2014 15:57 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Tue, 04 February 2014 21:33 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sat, 08 February 2014 12:42 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sun, 09 February 2014 09:37 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Wed, 19 February 2014 11:01 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Wed, 19 February 2014 14:44 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sat, 22 February 2014 13:15 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Mon, 24 February 2014 08:33 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Wed, 05 March 2014 15:34 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Fri, 07 March 2014 12:12 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sat, 29 March 2014 13:47 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Tue, 08 April 2014 07:42 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Wed, 09 April 2014 09:14 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Wed, 09 April 2014 13:21 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: william on Wed, 09 April 2014 16:11 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Tue, 15 April 2014 10:52 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Wed, 30 April 2014 09:14 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Tue, 24 June 2014 08:52 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Tue, 24 June 2014 14:29 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Wed, 25 June 2014 08:45 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sun, 08 February 2015 13:05 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Fri, 19 June 2015 10:06 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sat, 20 June 2015 11:16 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Sun, 21 June 2015 17:46 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Tue, 14 January 2014 15:40 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Tue, 14 January 2014 16:29 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Mon, 22 June 2015 13:21 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Tue, 23 June 2015 09:57 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Tue, 23 June 2015 16:32 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Wed, 24 June 2015 09:06 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Wed, 24 June 2015 09:53 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Wed, 24 June 2015 15:48 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Wed, 24 June 2015 16:09 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Fri, 26 June 2015 09:33 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sun, 28 June 2015 10:13 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Wed, 01 July 2015 08:40 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Thu, 02 July 2015 10:00 |
|
Gleanings from the "Gospels" Retaining Sins?
By: Gary on Fri, 03 July 2015 09:48 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" Retaining Sins?
By: james on Fri, 03 July 2015 11:25 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" Retaining Sins?
By: william on Fri, 03 July 2015 22:55 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" Retaining Sins?
By: Gary on Sat, 04 July 2015 11:58 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" Retaining Sins?
By: james on Sat, 04 July 2015 12:57 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" The Centurion
By: Gary on Wed, 08 July 2015 10:03 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Fri, 10 July 2015 09:55 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sat, 11 July 2015 11:55 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Sat, 11 July 2015 16:09 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: william on Sat, 11 July 2015 19:41 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sun, 12 July 2015 07:36 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Mon, 13 July 2015 10:06 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Mon, 13 July 2015 10:32 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Tue, 14 July 2015 10:22 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Wed, 15 July 2015 09:41 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Thu, 16 July 2015 13:03 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Fri, 17 July 2015 14:10 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sat, 25 July 2015 09:26 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Sat, 25 July 2015 12:07 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sun, 26 July 2015 11:11 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Wed, 29 July 2015 09:16 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Wed, 29 July 2015 10:03 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Mon, 17 August 2015 12:18 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Tue, 18 August 2015 12:27 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Fri, 21 August 2015 12:13 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Tue, 25 August 2015 10:08 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sat, 05 September 2015 09:58 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Sat, 05 September 2015 12:22 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sun, 06 September 2015 09:36 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Thu, 10 September 2015 09:07 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Thu, 10 September 2015 13:01 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: william on Thu, 10 September 2015 23:32 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sat, 19 September 2015 12:36 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Mon, 21 September 2015 10:20 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Tue, 22 September 2015 10:03 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Tue, 22 September 2015 13:20 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Thu, 24 September 2015 09:43 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Thu, 24 September 2015 11:49 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Fri, 25 September 2015 08:41 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sat, 26 September 2015 12:01 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Tue, 13 October 2015 09:53 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Fri, 16 October 2015 10:04 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Fri, 16 October 2015 22:14 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sun, 18 October 2015 12:06 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Sun, 18 October 2015 12:41 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sun, 18 October 2015 15:13 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sat, 31 October 2015 10:25 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Tue, 03 November 2015 09:26 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Tue, 03 November 2015 15:11 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Wed, 04 November 2015 10:42 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Wed, 04 November 2015 16:01 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Thu, 05 November 2015 01:11 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: william on Thu, 05 November 2015 03:15 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Thu, 05 November 2015 10:42 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: william on Wed, 04 November 2015 16:17 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Thu, 05 November 2015 00:52 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Thu, 05 November 2015 14:57 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Fri, 06 November 2015 11:11 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Wed, 18 November 2015 11:23 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Wed, 18 November 2015 19:15 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Thu, 19 November 2015 09:42 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Thu, 19 November 2015 15:05 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Fri, 20 November 2015 13:15 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Fri, 20 November 2015 15:16 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Mark L on Mon, 23 November 2015 17:28 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Thu, 26 November 2015 15:00 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Fri, 27 November 2015 11:29 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Wed, 02 December 2015 11:32 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Wed, 02 December 2015 14:16 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Thu, 03 December 2015 10:14 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sat, 12 December 2015 13:32 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sat, 12 December 2015 17:40 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Mon, 14 December 2015 11:00 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Fri, 18 December 2015 10:53 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Wed, 13 January 2016 11:16 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sun, 04 December 2016 15:53 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: william on Mon, 05 December 2016 04:23 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Tue, 06 December 2016 02:19 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: william on Tue, 06 December 2016 05:25 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Tue, 06 December 2016 20:09 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: william on Wed, 07 December 2016 01:10 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: william on Wed, 07 December 2016 04:45 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
|
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Wed, 07 December 2016 11:41 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Wed, 07 December 2016 21:00 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Mark L on Thu, 08 December 2016 16:34 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sat, 17 December 2016 13:47 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Sat, 21 January 2017 11:19 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: james on Sat, 21 January 2017 16:43 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels"
By: Gary on Thu, 09 January 2020 13:54 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" Retaining Sins?
By: william on Fri, 03 July 2015 22:37 |
|
Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" Retaining Sins?
By: Gary on Sat, 04 July 2015 12:01 |
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Fri Apr 26 19:39:01 UTC 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01530 seconds
|