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Re: Predestination, Election, And The Sovereignty Of God [message #12230 is a reply to message #12226]

Wed, 19 April 2017 04:13

william
Messages: 1451
Registered: January 2006

Senior Member
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I think you are right; we all want to be able to wrap our minds around predestination and election but it isn't as simple as the Arminians and Calvinists want us to believe!

Recently, (actually three or four years ago! Boy, does time fly!) I was reading Reformed Dogmatics by Herman Bavinck the abridged one-volume edition. I can't say exactly where I was in the book or even the statement but whatever it was it got me on the subject of predestination and election. So I begin to read some of the different stuff (tons of it available on the Internet) and ran across a third view called "Molinism".

For me, it provided a different perspective that helped with the whole trying-to-wrap-my-mind-around-everything need that we humans tend to have. I'm not going to say that I've now experienced mind-wrap-nirvana mind you, but some of the ideas that were presented definitely warranted some attention.

By the way, I don't think that any of the material that I read constituted anything heretical, it was just an attempt at providing a viewpoint that embraced the seemingly contradictory elements of Free-will vs God's sovereignty doctrines.

I know I can't do justice to the whole doctrine of Molinism and perhaps even in this one example someone might find that I've butchered the doctrine miserably (or even completely misunderstood it!) but at least in my mind the following example helped me with one aspect of the whole argument. (My problem is that I don't have anyone to critique anything I say which puts me into the enviable position of being right all of the time!<grin>) Of course I'm opening myself up by actually conversing with anyone reading here so be gentle if you must point out logical fallacies in my, until now, perfectly 'right' viewpoint!<grin>

Okay, Infinite God in eternity lays out His plan (must talk in human terms here because I don't understand how infinity and eternity actually work).

He has an infinite number of possible worlds (actually potential worlds) all of which from start to finish have an almost infinite number of possible outcomes. In one world I might misspel mispell which would have its own set of implications which in turn would further cause the world to develop differently with each reaction (think of all the spelling nazis out there!) having its own set of possibilities and so on and so forth. Get my drift?

To simplify (with the above in mind) He has an infinite number of bookshelves lined with an infinite number of DVDs (possible worlds) each containing an infinite number of character plots each of which should really be a separate DVD based upon an infinite number of choices that could possibly be made at each moment of the DVD. Got it? Sure you do... at least in this particular DVD at this particular moment!! He's got a pretty grand collection of DVDs.

He goes over (again speaking in terms that we can understand) and selects DVD number____ (insert your own infinite number here but we're going to call it Volume 1 Creation- episode 1 Adam in Paradise).

Any one of the DVDs selected would have been alright because each of them when they were conceptualized by God (again anthropomorphic language) had actors that were completely free to do whatever they wanted (free-will) and each of their choices would have its own volume in the series... remember there's an infinite number of them!

God, being sovereign, got to make the choice He wanted (predestination, election or we could say selection). This satisfies the predestination part that we have revealed to us in the Bible.

The infinite number of possible selections satisfies the free will part of the Bible because each participant did basically what they wanted to do without being forced, which is the essence of free-will.

He sticks His choice into the DVD player and here we are! Known/Chosen before the foundation of the world yet freely choosing how this DVD turns out!

Okay, that's what I took from Molinism.

Blessings,
William

I want to believe!

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