Today's Messages (off)
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| Forum: Bible Issues |
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| Topic: Pottery--Marred or Ruined |
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| Pottery--Marred or Ruined [message #203] |
Wed, 22 March 2006 19:33 |
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 william
Messages: 1451
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
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When I first became a Christian the Lord allowed me to see something that was very profound to my 18 year old mind. It really isn't too profound but it was to me because it was the very first time that I was conscious of the Lord opening my mind.
I was reading Jeremiah 18 (you can read the whole chapter but I'll give the highlight here:
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Jer 18:1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
Jer 18:2 Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
Jer 18:3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make [it].
Jer 18:5 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
Jer 18:6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay [is] in the potter's hand, so [are] ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
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I kept reading and got to the next chapter of Jeremiah:
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Jer 19:1 Thus saith the LORD, Go and get a potter's earthen bottle, and [take] of the ancients of the people, and of the ancients of the priests;
Jer 19:2 And go forth unto the valley of the son of Hinnom, which [is] by the entry of the east gate, and proclaim there the words that I shall tell thee,
Jer 19:3 And say, Hear ye the word of the LORD, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears shall tingle.
Jer 19:4 Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents;
Jer 19:5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire [for] burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake [it], neither came [it] into my mind:
Jer 19:6 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter.
Jer 19:7 And I will make void the counsel of Judah and Jerusalem in this place; and I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hands of them that seek their lives: and their carcases will I give to be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.
Jer 19:8 And I will make this city desolate, and an hissing; every one that passeth thereby shall be astonished and hiss because of all the plagues thereof.
Jer 19:9 And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend in the siege and straitness, wherewith their enemies, and they that seek their lives, shall straiten them.
Jer 19:10 Then shalt thou break the bottle in the sight of the men that go with thee,
Jer 19:11 And shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Even so will I break this people and this city, as [one] breaketh a potter's vessel, that cannot be made whole again: and they shall bury [them] in Tophet, till [there be] no place to bury.
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Jer 19:15 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it, because they have hardened their necks, that they might not hear my words.
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The thing that struck me was that the first vessel (Jer 18) being formed became marred in the hand of the potter and the potter kept working with it and made it into something else.
The second vessel (Jer 19) was already in a finished state and there was nothing to do but break it.
Israel was God's chosen people just as we are. Israel had the Word of God just as we do. Yet there is a point when the potter puts the vessel to the heat and it becomes set... it cannot be changed at that point. If it is flawed the only thing you can do with it is break it. On the other hand, the vessel that becomes marred while still in an unfinished state can be re-molded and useful.
I'd like to think that we are still in that state where the Lord can still mold us and make us into something useful. I fear that there are those who fit the other category and can only be broken.
I'm sure there are a lot of other aspects of the prophesy that can be mined but this aspect has always stuck with me.
It certainly applies to some of our experiences.
William
P.S. I know brother Freeman did a series on Jeremiah!
I want to believe!
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| | Topic: Ravenhill's Last Message -- WoW |
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| Ravenhill's Last Message -- WoW [message #33] |
Tue, 07 February 2006 17:53 |
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william
Messages: 1451
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
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What is your vision?
From Leonard Ravenhill’s last meeting, a prayer meeting for ministers at Calvary Commission. Sept. 14, 1994.
We are going to look at what Paul had to say about ministry, in 2 Corinthians 6:3-8
Giving no offense in anything, that the ministry may not be blamed. But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, in stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labors, in watchings, in fastings, by pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy ghost, by love unfeigned, by the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, by honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report; as deceivers, and yet true...
This word may not seem very relevant to us, but I don't let one day go by that I don't pray for my oppressed brother in Bosnia. I saw on the news this morning of a new wave of persecution there. How many young men have died there in the last two or three years - died a martyrs death?
How easy it is to sit and clap our hands and tap our feet and sing, "My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness..." But, what about when you come to the third stanza?
When all around my soul gives way
When your whole life... your wife is raped in front of your eyes... you have no life... no church... everything goes ... you are dragged through the town. That is what is happening over there this very hour as we are here. I don't think we value our privileges as we ought. Paul talks about redeeming the time, buying back the opportunity. Of the things we waste, we certainly waste time. The word that has been very much on my mind these past two or three weeks is in Ephesians.
Ephesians 2:7 "But in the ages to come ... "
How often do we preach on that? I think there is a danger of something I call "The Peril of the Immediate." We are living in the framework of the immediate. We live there as much as other men. We are not supposed to. We are to live as men branded for eternity.
"In the ages to come... "
Look at Elijah. Elijah was told to hide in the cave. He goes in there for three whole years! Most of us can't stand three hours without turning on a radio or TV. Try three days, try three weeks, cutting yourself off from everything external, everything worldly that has been labeled and poisoned by the world systems. We need to think and get things straight.
Hebrews 11 tells me Moses endured as seeing Him who is invisible.
Paul tells us the things that are seen are temporal and the things that are unseen are eternal. We need to be careful of living in the visible all the time. Visible values, the durability of things that are only for time.
Think of Moses when he was on the backside of the desert, not for four days, not forty days, but forty years - one third of his life! There was a price on his head after having been kicked out of the greatest royal family in the world. He no longer had seven course meals. He lived on the back side of the desert. Do you think he ever thought that one day he would stand on the Mount of Transfiguration with Jesus and Elijah? He endured as seeing Him who is invisible – Christ. And what did he do? He considered the reproach of Christ – not the Kingdom of Christ – the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt.
Did he see Him coming in the clouds?
Did he ever see by faith that he would stand on the Mt. of Transfiguration?
Did he go further, to the end of the age when a multitude which no man can
number out of every kindred, tribe and tongue would sing the song of
Moses and of the Lamb?
We live too much in this world. We're earthbound. How many of us know someone who is eternity conscious? What America needs is somebody who will go through every church in the country and preach for a week on eternity:
Preach one day on the Judgment Seat of Christ.
Preach one day on the Judgment of believers.
Preach one day on the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.
Again, I've told you before,
I don't just want to go to heaven,
I want to go to the marriage supper of the Lamb,
I don't just want to go to the marriage supper,
I want to be part of the Bride.
The last word of Jesus was not "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel" - that was for the eleven disciples.
The last word of Jesus is in Revelations: Repent, repent, repent.
What is Jesus coming for? A bride.
The Word of God says He is coming for a bride without spot or wrinkle or any such thing.
Do you think the church is that today?
What does Jesus say about the church?
That she is poor, wretched, naked, blind and pitiful.
A while ago I went to a wedding of a millionaire's daughter. As the bride came down the aisle it was just as though a voice said to me, "look." I looked at her. She was beautifully dressed, very educated, quite brilliant. As I looked at her coming down the aisle, I thought, "Is Jesus Christ coming for a bride who is poor and wretched? If I was an artist I would paint the bride on a crutch, one leg almost withered, wearing rags, the other garments looking scruffy like a woman off the streets. Poor, wretched, naked, blind and pitiful – so something has to happen to the church before the Lord Jesus returns!"
One fact should be already decided in our hearts and that is to live with cruelty towards our lives, and abasement of our lives in this present evil world.
What about Elijah? He goes into a cave for three years - three years is a pretty good long time isn't it? He did it.
It says in I Kings 17, "go hide thyself."
It says in I Kings 18, "go show thyself."
One minute he's found before a king,
later he dares to stand before the Israelites...
A man who is intimate with God, is never intimidated by man.
The fear of man goes out entirely.
I certainly believe with all my heart we are not eternity conscious, we live for the everyday. We ought to live with eternity’s values in view. Those people were excited - and us?
We have labored for Christ,
we have labored with Christ,
one day we are going to see Him.
As the hymn writer said,
"Face to face with Christ my Savior,
face to face what will it be ,
when with rapture I behold Him..."
Who would be delighted right now to go and stand before the King? You will have to answer for all your preaching…Very often we take a text and drown it in words…
I woke up this morning about three o'clock thinking about that.
I've been preaching for over 70 years.
Take 120 words times 60 minutes, times 60 times a year,
times 70 years... and I have to give an account to God for all those words.
The more I read the Word of God the more it pierces my heart. It makes me stop and think and meditate. I meditate now more on eternity than I ever have in all my life. Our people are not eternity conscious. Do you think a person who is ready for eternity would miss a prayer meeting? I don't know of anywhere on Earth where there is more freedom than in a prayer meeting where God anoints those who pray and you almost, as it were, rub shoulders with God.
Again I say, when Ahab was breathing down the neck of Elijah, and Jezebel was digging a pit for his feet, do you ever think he thought for a moment he'd stand on the Mountain of Transfiguration with Moses and Jesus?
Apparently Moses could see through the space in time... he could see and he endured. "He chose to suffer."
Suppose you were a twenty year old or a thirty year old in Bosnia or one of these other countries today. You wouldn't have a home to go home to.
Some of these young men today come into my office and say,
"These are wonderful days to be alive".
Sure they are - you go from an air conditioned home,
to an air conditioned car, to an air conditioned church,
where you collect a copious offering and go home to rejoice in the Lord.
What about those who get nothing?
Paul gets to a place where he says, "I have nothing, yet I possess all things." Paul goes through all sorts of cleansing. He did not end up in Romans 7 "it is sin that dwelleth in me." He ended up in Galatians 2:20, "Not I, but Christ liveth in me." That is the ultimate in the Christian life. I don't care how many tongues we have or how many miracles we were able to perform. The word of God says again, "Christ liveth in me." The life I now live in this mortal body is Christ controlled.
People say that in the Old Testament Christ was with them but not in them. But Peter doesn't say that! Christ was in them. Do you think a man could go and pray and say on behalf of the rotten nation he lived in, "Lord kill me," again, he also says, "Take my life. I don't care. I'm not bothered by living."
I want to be so God possessed.
Of course, some say that's fanaticism.
People get weary of hearing about all the trouble in Bosnia
but they can't wait to hear what is going on with the baseball strike.
And I'm talking about men in ministry, I mean preachers.
They rush out from church Sunday morning for home and go watch
baseball or football.
So they are trying to serve two masters.
No man can do that; you can only serve one master.
The more I read this word I find Christ didn't come to just take me to the cross - as Paul says in Romans 6, you can be crucified with Him. But I think the most amazing thing Jesus said is, "The prince of this world cometh and findeth nothing in Me." He wastes his time tempting Jesus!
He had come through forty days of relentless temptation and trials, after that He was put out of the synagogue, and after that He is being put out all the time.
He was born outside - we sing, "Jesus was born in a manger".
He was buried outside - because He would defile the city it if they buried Him
within.
He is still outside - the church.
Isn't it amazing? In the book of Revelation Jesus is still outside the church standing and knocking, trying to get in. How many churches would He have to say that of today?
We must allow God to be in complete control of us with no ambitions of our own, with no concern but to glorify the Father. There's not much time left. As I said last night, "Believer, we are not in the last days - we are in the last of the last days! In Hebrews 1 it says, "God, Who in sundry times and in divers manners spake, hath in these last days spoken by His Son…" that was 2,000 years ago. As for reading the Book of Revelations, it speaks of things that will shortly come to pass. Dr. Tozer used to say to me very often that we were in the last chapter of Revelations.
More and more and more we should be the light in this dark world. You may not know what a wonderful privilege you have of being an example to young men.
Show them
you’re not tied up with money,
you’re not tied up with position,
you’re not tied up trying to be the best preacher in your
denomination.
Live close to God day by day.
"The Spirit beareth witness."
John Wesley preached on that more than anyone else. I've never heard anyone preach on Romans 8:16, "the Spirit beareth witness with our spirit." In the Acts of the apostles it says the same thing: We're witnesses, so is the Holy Ghost.
We don't need outward acknowledgments. We don't need outward labels.
When I think of what it means in Jude, "Praying in the Holy Ghost," it means more than just tongues, it means the Holy Ghost running in me. If I'm filled with the Holy Ghost then what grieves the Holy Ghost will grieve me. It's not all joy and excitement.
Did the disciples ask the Lord "teach us to preach"? No. They heard the sermon on the mount, the greatest sermon ever preached birthed but
They never said, "Lord teach us to preach."
Jesus sang a hymn and went into Gethsemene, I think He sang often, but
They never said, "Lord teach us to sing."
They never said, "Lord teach us to laugh." No. They said,
"LORD TEACH US TO PRAY."
If I could go back in time, I think I would spend more time in the Word of God and getting into the depths of the lives of men like Praying Hyde. I was told of a man whose friend prayed with Praying Hyde. He said, "I was in India for a convention and I asked for the privilege of praying with Praying Hyde. John Hyde said, ‘I will be praying tomorrow morning.’ As I went in to pray it was nine in the morning. Then someone knocked on the door and I thought, ‘You just get praying and someone interrupts.’ Then there was another knock at the door. I didn't move, Praying Hyde didn't move. Then someone opened the door and said, ‘It’s a quarter to three and you preach at three.’ I had been on my knees from nine in the morning to three in the afternoon and didn't even know where the time had gone! It was an awesome experience listening to this man pour his heart out in prayer."
I'm not saying everyone gets to that level - but I believe the greatest thing we can do is pray. Every time I pray, I don't want God to make me popular, I don't want to have the biggest church in town. - Jesus never had the fastest growing church, in fact His church went down and down until one day there were only eleven and He said, "Will you go away also?" - I don't think we should pray for God to take people out, I'm saying this, you ought to get near to the heart of God.
I trust that God will give you that privilege of travail
that very few people have had.
Paul had it. I don't think a day goes by that I don't think of Paul travailing in birth. Look at his theological background. Look at the epistle to the Romans, look at his epistle to the Ephesians and yet with all that he is still craving that he may get near to the heart of God. "I could wish myself accursed... my own death." I don't think you have to die a martyr's death to be a martyr.
You can be a living sacrifice,
you can die to advantages,
you can die to temptations,
you can die to privileges,
you can die to all those things that don't add to spiritual life, that don't add to spiritual vision, that don't add to spiritual understanding.
When God works in me, He is so altogether different from the theological concept I once had...
Don't live in the immediate. Remember, Moses saw Jesus in the distance.
I see Jesus coming to rule on the Earth. Not to die, not to be pushed around, but He's coming to rule the Earth. The Word of God says at least some will reign with Him. Who? Who reigns with Him?
The overcomers,
overcoming temptation,
overcoming the world,
overcoming our own desires,
being completely God controlled.
I thank God for what He has done in my life. He hasn't stopped and He won't stop. The Word of God say, "We shall all appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ." And, "Will not the Judge of all the Earth do right? " That is going to be awful, but if I didn't believe that I think I would go insane.
Who is going to account for all the bloody massacre in Rwanda today?
All the wars of the Earth,
all the Generals, the Kings of England the Presidents of the United
States, are going to stand before God.
When He takes all the masks off and uncovers everything.
Everybody - every preacher will stand before the God.
This is the final reckoning day, I want to live with eternity’s values in view.
If we judge ourselves in the light of God's Word we need not fear the
judgment.
If we walk in the light as He is in the light... that's all He asks of us, to walk
in the light.
And this is what I desire:
That you would get more vision than I've ever had.
More power than I've ever had.
More understanding than I've ever had.
God help us. This is the most difficult period in human history. Never have there been so many nations upside down. The World is like a ship caught in a storm:
it has no anchor,
it has no compass,
it has no chart.
I believe, brethren, you will live to see many from Washington begging the Church of Jesus Christ to bring deliverance. They have ignored it, laughed at it, they have scorned it, but they will come to a place they are so politically helpless, so financially helpless, so morally helpless they will have to call on God. He is the only sure answer.
One thought that amazes as I study the life of Noah is that there is no mention of his prayer life. But when I come to Ezekiel 14, the three most righteous men that ever lived, Noah is one of them, Job another and Daniel. What awesome prayers they offered, but there will come a time when God won't listen to you anymore.
One fellow said, "I just finished three years in Seminary." I asked him,
"Did anyone ever preach a sermon on eternity?"... "No."
"Did you ever hear a sermon on the judgment seat of Christ?"... "No."
"Did anyone preach a sermon on "The Bride of Christ?"... "No."
The man burst into tears. I said,
"In God's name, why do you go to seminary? To learn how to bury the dead?"
There is an eternity in front of us! There is a world that now is in more rebellion than ever! "As in the days of Noah" they rebelled against God. For 100 years Noah never preached a new message, he preached repentance, he preached righteousness. Alexander White used to say, "You can preach divine healing, you can preach prophecy, you can preach anything, but you can't preach righteousness; people won't have it."
I still hope God will pour out His Spirit on all flesh. Let Him pour out His Spirit, not our man-made thing. We laugh and watch TV all night. When the burden of the Holy Ghost takes hold of you, you taste what happens in revival. I think revival preaching is open heart surgery. The other preaching isn't a semblance of the message.
I'm trying to say that as bad as it is, and we are living in the most critical hour in human history, God hasn't given up. He's still not willing that any should perish. He still loves men and women. I want to be in that place where I can bear the birth pains.
For years I finished every night of prayer meeting the same way. I would say, "O Lord, don't say to me on that great day, ‘Ravenhill, I had many things to say to you but you could not bear them.’" You don't tell your family secrets to your little children. You want to talk to someone who understands.
I BELIEVE GOD WANTS TO GIVE US EARS TO HEAR.
I BELIEVE HE WANTS TO GIVE US NEW UNDERSTANDING.
I BELIEVE HE WANTS TO GIVE US NEW REVELATION.
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COPYRIGHT/REPRODUCTION LIMITATIONS: This data file is the sole property of Leonard Ravenhill. It may not be altered or edited in any way. It may be reproduced only in its entirety for circulation as "freeware," without charge. All reproductions of this data file must contain the copyright notice (i.e., "Copyright (C) 1994 by Leonard Ravenhill."). This data file may not be used without the permission of Leonard Ravenhill for resale or the enhancement of any other product sold. This includes all of its content with the exception of a few brief quotations. Please give the following source credit: Copyright (C) 1994 by Leonard Ravenhill, Lindale Texas - http://www.ravenhill.org/
I want to believe!
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| | Topic: Multiple "heads" or one Pastor |
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| Multiple "heads" or one Pastor [message #14] |
Wed, 01 February 2006 06:01 |
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william
Messages: 1451
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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We found ourselves, during our wanderings, in a church that believed that the concept of one "head" pastor was not biblical. They believed in a multiple elder type of leadership and i was prompted to do a study--so here it is:
I. God's design in the beginning
A. Adam, Eve and the divine order
In the beginning God... with these words we see that it doesn't matter who has been delegated with authority, God is the one ultimately in charge, whether we are talking about Israel and her kings, or the Church and its shepherds.
Adam, in Gen. 2-3, was given the responsibility to lead and teach those who had been placed under his charge, and he was given a helper that would assist him in this mission. I believe that this is the established order that God intended throughout history. God-Man(one leader)-Woman(helper)-Children(our charge... the flock!)
As the family structure grew this basic pattern never changed, the head of the household remained the leader.
B. Noah leads the way
Noah was obviously the leader of his household and was able to lead and protect those under his charge. Gen 6-7
Like Adam, Noah wasn't perfect in his responsibilities (Gen 9)yet God doesn't stray from His original design of headship.
C. Abraham, Father of a multitude
The life of Abraham continues to reflect God's original design of headship. He becomes the "father" of the nation of Israel. We also enter into the blessings of Abraham through faith. Gal.3:7
Like those before, Abraham wasn't perfect in his leadership, yet God never invalidates the pattern that He established from the beginning.
D. Jacob and Esau
With Jacob and Esau, God introduces a slight variation on the concept of headship. Headship will now be enlarged to include more than the immediate family. This was hinted at in Gen 9:25-27 with reference to Noah's sons.
Jacob receives the blessing from Isaac that said..."Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord [ruler] over thy brethren..." Gen 27:29.
God continues to show through the pages of Scripture His design with regards to headship.
E. Israel becomes a nation
Jacob/Israel begat twelve children that were destined to become the twelve tribes of Israel
Gen 49:8 shows that Judah ultimately would have the leadership mantle.
The headship pattern was up until this point mostly limited to the family structure, but as the nation grew it became apparent that there would be a need to expand (not change) the leadership structure.
II. God's design for the nation of Israel
A. Moses, chosen by God to lead the nation of Israel
Moses became the central leader of the young nation of Israel. Moses exemplifies a leader that welded much power (some estimates say he ruled over 3 million!) yet he was known as the meekest man on earth at that time! (Num.12:3) How's that for a godly example to follow! Each family had its leaders, each tribe had its leaders but Moses was the central leader. With such a large nation to lead it was obvious that he couldn't lead effectively without help so he appointed "helpers" to judge the nation. Ex 18:17-26
B. Joshua, leader by example Josh.24:15
When it was time for Moses to move on, God instructed Moses to pass the mantle of authority to Joshua, who had been preparing for leadership by being a servant of Moses. Num. 27:18 Joshua became the recognized leader of the nation even though the nation still maintained the same pattern that God had established and expanded through the leadership of Moses. Josh. 24:1f
C. No central leader equals chaos
When Joshua passes from the scene the elders that were alive during his leadership continue leading the people until they also pass from the scene. A leadership vacuum results and Israel forsakes the Lord and falls under the Lord's judgment.
D. Judges
At this time, God begins to raise up judges to rule His nation, and a clear pattern emerges; Israel flourishes during the leadership of the judge but when the judge dies, they backslide once again. Jud. 2:16-19
III. God's design during the time of the kings
It has been stated that God never intended for the nation of Israel to have a king, I agree with this, but it is obvious that He did intend for the people to have a leader that would lead them in the ways of righteousness. Why else did He raise up Moses, Joshua, and the judges? I contend that He has shown clearly from the beginning the pattern of leadership.
Certainly He chose David's leadership to be a type of His own leadership over the nation of Israel. One leader, with many helpers, was the pattern throughout the time of the kings.
A. Saul
Saul was chosen as the King over the nation and while his reign left much to be desired, God didn't change the structure that He had ordained from the beginning. Even after it became obvious that Saul had abdicated his responsibility in leading the nation in a godly manner, he remained the recognized central leader. David would not usurp the office of the king even though Saul's leadership was detrimental to the nation.
B. David, kingdom patterned after the heavenly
Throughout the Scriptures, David and his leadership has been likened to that of Christ's reign over the earth. He certainly wasn't a perfect leader, but his heart was toward the Lord and the resulting prosperity that sprang from this godly reign should teach us the potential of true God-ordained leadership.
C. Solomon, leadership gone awry
Solomon reaped the benefits of his father's reign, but because of a misuse of the power of leadership he was doomed to have part of the kingdom torn from his leadership and given to another. From this point until the Babylonian captivity, the nations of Israel and Judah were on a fast track to destruction. Here we begin to see the fruits of "bad" leadership. However, even during this period when it seemed that a new pattern of leadership was in order, God did not change the design that He had instituted at the beginning.
IV. God's design during the time of Babylonian captivity
After many years of backsliding and repeated warnings of judgment, both Israel and Judah were put under the rule of the Babylonians. Their temple was destroyed and they were led away from the land that the Lord had given to them. They became a nation without direction and were it not for the few godly prophets that prophesied during this time, they would have been completely without direction.
It seems that it was during this time period that the Synagogues came into existence. The Synagogue was their only link to their glorious heritage. It offered them a chance to maintain their religion while under the rule of the Babylonians and teach the next generation the tenets of their faith. Interestingly enough, they chose to maintain the same structure of leadership that had prevailed throughout their history... a single leader for each Synagogue. Acts 18:8,17
V. God's design during the time of Ezra-Nehemiah
After the Babylonian captivity, God once again raises up an individual to lead his people back into the land of their inheritance, first Ezra, and then Nehemiah. Apparently God intended that the leadership structure of one central leader would continue to prevail, albeit without the baggage of a king!
VI. God's design during the Roman period
During this period of Roman rule the Synagogues remained the central pillar of Jewish life, even though the temple had been rebuilt and the order of worship had been restored. Leadership was never by committee although a godly leader will always listen to council from other godly sources. It was at this time that Jesus came on the scene and established His Church
VII. God's design for the church age
We know that there were radical changes that took place when Jesus established his Church, however, the model that had served from the beginning was nowhere rejected. It would seem that if Jesus had wanted to change the headship pattern that had prevailed from the beginning there would have been a statement to announce this major departure from the norm. Instead we see that even among the twelve there clearly was a delineation between some of the apostles. Peter, James and John emerge as the apostles who were chosen to have additional leadership responsibilities. Mk 9 & 14. Among this inner circle Jesus singled out Peter with the charge to feed His flock in Jn 21:15f. Peter was also given the "keys" to open the door to the Jews on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2) as well as the Gentiles in Acts 10. We see Peter leading in the selection of a replacement for Judas in Acts 1:15.
In discussing leadership with the Apostles in MK 10, Jesus made it clear that those who would exercise leadership in His Church, would be those who had the capacity for servanthood. It would not be those who had the most strength and power, or those who battled their way to the top!
Peter was recognized as leader of the twelve even though he became subordinate to the leadership in the Jerusalem assembly (which was led by another single individual).
The Jerusalem assembly was led not by an apostle but by James the brother of Jesus. By reading Acts 15 you will get a good picture of how a godly leader goes about his duties. Paul recognizes James' leadership and he is mentioned separately from the rest of the elders in Jerusalem in Acts 21:18. Early Church history confirms the fact that James was the leading elder in the Jerusalem assembly.
Even a cursory glance at early Church history show that all of the major assemblies had a plurality of elders but that there was only one leading elder (called a pastor or bishop) who was responsible for the direction and oversight of the assembly.
The Gentile assemblies also followed the same pattern of leadership that had been established from the beginning. Paul had establish many churches during his missionary journeys and continued to appoint leaders in every church. Timothy (who wasn't an apostle) is an example of one who was given authority in the Ephesian Church. He was given instructions on dealing with problems in the Church and was expected to lead the Church despite the fact that he was apparently very young. Paul also gives detailed instructions on leading the Church to Titus, leader at Crete. Here again, an example of one central leader given the responsibility over a young Church.
Even in the last book of the Scriptures, the book of Revelation, we see the divine order that was established in Genesis still prevails. Rev. 2 & 3 contains seven letters written to seven churches from the Lord Jesus. Each letter is written to a single individual who has the responsibility for leading the church under his care. The recipient of each letter is referred to as the "angel" of the church which is a descriptive metaphor for a single individual within the Church and not, as some have mistakenly said, literal "angels." This can be easily ascertained by looking at the language used by the Lord when He speaks to these "angels."
Revelation 2:1 1. To the angel of the church of Ephesus write;...vs 4 Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. 5 Remember therefore from which thou hast fallen, and repent, and do the first works;...
Revelation 2:12 12. And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write;... vs 16 Repent; or else I will come to thee quickly,...
Revelation 3:1 1. And to the angel of the church in Sardis write;... I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Revelation 3:14 14. And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write;...I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit thee out of my mouth.
Literal angels don't need to be reminded to return to their first love, or to repent. They don't need to be told that they have a name that they live but are really dead. Literal angels aren't lukewarm!
The angel metaphor is used because these singular persons are in reality messengers from God. They are to be leading the church by finding out God's direction, His purposes, and then relaying the message to the assembly that God has given them charge over.
There are other places in Scripture that the same Greek word "angel" is translated as "messenger." Here is an example:
Luke 9:52 52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
VIII. Summary
It seems clear that God has from the beginning ordained that there be those who have the gift and responsibility of leadership, both within the confines of the family, as well as the broader context of the Church.
Having said all of this, I realize that not all "senior pastors" are operating the way God has ordained. Some are obviously in leadership when they are not even called. We often have to search for churches (even including Home Churches) where divine order prevails, yet this lack does not negate the divine pattern that God has established.
God's gifts to the church are the 5-fold ministry: apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. (Eph.4:11) Not all have these leadership gifts in the church, although all have been given gifts and are expected to function in their place in the Body of Christ. Ephesians 4:12-14 tell us the purpose of 5-fold ministry in the church:
1. To equip the saints for the work of ministry
2. To edify the Body of Christ
3. To bring everyone into the unity of the faith and knowledge of the Son of God
4. To help perfect the Body of Christ, to reach the fullness of Christ
5. To protect and to feed the flock, so that they are "no longer children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting." (Eph. 4:14) So that the flock will mature and "grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ".
And finally, vs. 16 of Ephesians 4 points out that it's the "WHOLE body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which EVERY part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love."
We have been members of churches which practiced body ministry, along with the God-ordained "senior pastor" and elders. In these churches, members were taught the Word of God by teachers who were gifted in this area, and they were encouraged to use their gifts to fulfill their place in the Body. (Peter 5:2-4) We don't believe that those called by God to be pastors and teachers must necessarily attend Bible schools or seminaries, but we do believe that they should have a solid foundation in the Word of God so that they don't lead their flock into error. Obviously, all Christians should obtain this solid foundation in the Word of God, but those who are in leadership will receive the stricter judgment, and it's extremely important that they not lead their flock astray by teaching error. (James 3:1 "My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.")
There will always be those who, like Korah, don't like the idea that God chooses certain of His servants to lead His flock, but the overwhelming evidence shows that He indeed does just that.
To conclude, since the NT states that there will be people who have a problem with the "one" leader concept like the OT figure of Korah (Jude 11) I would like to quote the passage where Korah and his followers rebel against the divine order that God has established through Moses. Please note that these folk (like their modern day counterparts) were also concerned with the "senior pastor" who seemed to be "taking too much" upon himself:
Numbers 16:1 1. Now Korah, the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On, the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took [men]: 2 And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown: 3 And they assembled themselves against Moses and against Aaron, and said to them, [Ye take] too much upon you, seeing all the congregation [are] holy, every one of them, and the LORD [is] among them: why then do ye raise yourselves above the congregation of the LORD? {Ye take...: Heb. It is much for you} 4 And when Moses heard [it], he fell upon his face: 5 And he spoke to Korah and to all his company, saying, Even to morrow the LORD will show who [are] his, and [who is] holy; and will cause [him] to come near to him: even [him] whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near to him. 6 This do; Take you censers, Korah, and all his company; 7 And put fire in them, and put incense in them before the LORD to morrow: and it shall be [that] the man whom the LORD doth choose, he [shall be] holy: [ye take] too much upon you, ye sons of Levi. 8 And Moses said to Korah, Hear, I pray you, ye sons of Levi: 9 [Seemeth it but] a small thing to you, that the God of Israel hath separated you from the congregation of Israel, to bring you near to himself to do the service of the tabernacle of the LORD, and to stand before the congregation to minister to them? 10 And he hath brought thee near [to him], and all thy brethren the sons of Levi with thee: and seek ye the priesthood also? 11 For which cause [both] thou and all thy company [are] assembled against the LORD: and what [is] Aaron, that ye murmur against him?
...Then comes the judgment:
Numbers 16:28 28 And Moses said, by this ye shall know that the LORD hath sent me to do all these works; for [I have] not [done them] of my own mind. 29 If these men shall die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; [then] the LORD hath not sent me. {the common...: Heb. as every man dieth} 30 But if the LORD shall make a new thing, and the earth shall open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that [appertain] to them, and they go down alive into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD. {make...: Heb. create a creature} 31 And it came to pass, as he had finished speaking all these words, that the ground opened up that [was] under them: 32 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that [appertained] to Korah, and all [their] goods. 33 They, and all that [appertained] to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.
moulder
[Updated on: Wed, 01 February 2006 06:19]
I want to believe!
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| | Topic: What is missing from Ch__ch? UR |
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| What is missing from Ch__ch? UR [message #13] |
Wed, 01 February 2006 05:48 |
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william
Messages: 1451
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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What's missing from Ch--ch? YOU ARE!
Since "Church" means different things to different people, let me first establish what I mean when I use the term. I believe that we are the Church, the living, breathing, functioning, members of the Body of Christ. Many people use the term to designate the building where the Christians meet instead of using it as a term to describe the Christians themselves. The shift in usage came about (imo) when more attention began to be paid to the place where the congregation gathered rather than on the congregation itself. Most scholars agree that this occurred when the Roman emperor Constantine converted to Christianity. Christians were persecuted and maligned, sometimes severely, until Constantine "legitimatized" and "institutionalized" the Church. It is said that at this point there was a large influx of people who "converted" to Christianity without the benefit of the "born again" experience.
The supernatural power that was commonplace in the lives of the Christians begin to wane and in many cases the congregation ceased to be a dynamic force and there began to be a clear distinction between the leadership and the membership. The concept of the whole church being involved in ministry gave way to a full-time "clergy" who ministered for (and to) the "laity" (which is an unscriptural concept, imo).
Church history is clear that the supernatural was common in the first few centuries and Christians everywhere experienced the supernatural gifts of healing, prophecy, tongues, miracles, etc.. When the church became institutionalized, (by Constantine's actions,) the gifts begin to be less and less in evidence (but never completely absent) and the building became the focal point instead of an active power-laden membership. To describe this phenomenon, we sometimes use the phrase "the church became an organization instead of a living organism."
Personally, I believe that until Christians everywhere begin to exercise the gifts there won't be any significant world-changing (in the book of Acts sense) revival.
It's much too great a task for a "clergy" to be able to accomplish by itself.
In my opinion it will take a radical change in both the leadership and membership for there to be significant changes in the status quo. The leaders continue to blame the congregation for the apparent deadness in the church program and the congregation blames the leaders for not doing their part (which in most churches is *everything*--obviously an impossible task!)
To assure job security, the pastor must be constantly brainstorming new exciting programs, visiting the sick, shaking hands, preaching dynamic sermons (that he has no time to prepare), evangelizing the city, etc. etc. etc.. (It also helps if the pastor's wife plays the piano or organ which makes it seem as if the church is getting more for its money!) The congregation usually views church participation as passive involvement with the exception of those few times that they are drafted by the pastor to head up his latest pet project.
Isn't it the job of the Church to meet all of the needs of the people? How can this happen unless you are actively involved in exercising the gifts that God gave you?
In the early Church if one of the members needed finances, they responded, if someone needed healing, they responded, when spiritual help was needed, the church responded, if a person was in prison because of their faith, the church responded. They responded to every need, (I'm not talking about responding by just adding them to a prayer list) they responded with tangible and often times supernatural help. The "clergy" won't be able to accomplish that by itself!
The Church had the answers for *every* need. Imagine what would happen if the gifts were as prominent today as they were in the early Church? What if, on a given Sunday, there were a couple of blind eyes opened, a cripple person healed, and a person healed from AIDS. Do you think that there would be a need for a "program" the following Sunday? Would there be a need for a door to door witnessing campaign? If this happened, there wouldn't be room in the building for the meeting.
What's missing from Ch -- ch? UR! You are missing if you aren't taking seriously the call to function as a part of the Body of Christ, utilizing the gifts that God gave you.
Let's pray for the gifts of the Holy Spirit and then be willing to use them
moulder
I want to believe!
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| | Topic: Speaking in Tongues... |
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| Speaking in Tongues... [message #11] |
Wed, 01 February 2006 05:23 |
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william
Messages: 1451
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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While I'm certainly no expert on the subject of tongues, I do have the benefit of having possessed this gift for 29 years.
Jesus said that those who believe would be the possessors of the gift.
Mr 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
This verse should not be used to prove that anyone who does not have the gift of tongues is not a believer anymore than one would say that casting out demons is necessary for every Christian believer. But it is a sign that Jesus said would follow His people.
Jesus promised the Holy Spirit to those who believe and one of the outward signs that the Holy Spirit had indeed been given to a person was the gift of tongues.
Ac 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
This aspect of the account isn't widespread in most who receive the gift although there are accounts of similar occurrences-- it isn't typical.
Ac 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
When they were filled with the Holy Spirit, it was the Spirit that gave the utterance, but as with all of God's gifts, they had to do the speaking. God never overrides our volition. We may find ourselves in an atmosphere where it is highly conducive for phenomena to occur, but it is never accurate to say that one was merely a passive participant that had no control over his own volition. This isn't to say that it might not seem as if one could do nothing else but act, or in this case, speak, but one thing is clear from my understanding of Scripture-God doesn't force His children to do anything. We are not robots; His Spirit gives the utterance, but we must, by an act of volition, speak. This is not so for one who has given himself over to the demonic powers of darkness. In cases of demonic possession it appears that the person has little or no control over his actions, but that is another discussion.
Ac 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
This verse shows that "tongues" are real languages and not merely babbling. This isn't to say that those who do not recognize or understand other languages might not conclude that those who speak in these languages are babbling (or drunk as some supposed.)
Ac 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
These tongues didn't need interpretation although there were people present who understood the various languages that were being spoken.
Later, God used Peter to spread the gospel to the gentiles and when he was preaching the Word (these signs shall follow...) the Holy Spirit fell on the gentile believers and they begin to speak in tongues as well.
Ac 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
The same sort of experience had befallen the gentiles as had previously happened on the day of Pentecost with the Jewish believers.
Sometimes the Holy Spirit was imparted by the laying on of hands, again the evidence that the Holy Spirit had come was the outward expression of tongues (these signs shall follow...).
Ac 19:6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
To this point in the Biblical account there hasn't been an emphasis on the particular function of tongues in the experience of the believer other than to give evidence to the infilling of the Holy Spirit --and when understood, they magnified God and His works. The emphasis is only on the initial experience and no mention is made concerning the continuation of this gift in the believer's life, but as Paul later develops regulations concerning tongues in the Church, we see that this gift was not just an initial outward evidence of the Holy Spirit's infilling, but a continual experience that actually had purpose in the lives of the believers.
Next comes some specific teaching concerning the operation of the gift of tongues in the Church. Speaking of the gifts given to the Church, he mentions that there are at least 3 utterance gifts-tongues, interpretation of tongues, and prophecy.
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
Keep in mind that Paul here is dealing not with the phenomena of tongues that occur upon receiving the Holy Spirit, but he is giving instructions on the operation of these gifts within the context of the Church. Apparently these gifts were in operation in the lives of believers long before Paul gives these instructions. It seems as if the Corinthian believers were blessed with an abundance of gifts and the free exercise of these gifts was causing problems in the context of the assembly of believers. This is a foreign concept in most of our modern Churches, thus when he says:
1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. If any man speak in an tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the most [by] three, and [that] by course; and let one interpret…
and then:
1Co 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
You can see there were many of the utterance gifts in operation and each utterance takes time. One can understand why he needed to regulate the gifts-- if nothing else so the pastor could have a little time for his sermon!
If your Church has this problem (multiple tongues and interpretations, multiple prophecies), then by all means limit them to Paul's suggestions, but I don't see a problem if your Church just sings a few songs, takes up a collection, prays and then has the sermon. It would seem that encouraging more of the gifts (not less) would be the better strategy for most modern day Churches. You can always put in some of the regulations later if it gets out of hand!
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. {diversities: or, kinds}
There are a lot of ministries in operation here and most of us can only wish for a Church like the one at Corinth, but nevertheless Paul, because of this abundance of gifts and ministries, had to remind them to let everything be done orderly and for the edification of all.
He goes on to say:
1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
This verse is oftentimes used out of context in an attempt to prove that all believers are not given the gift of tongues, but the context is the context of the Church Assembly. No, not all have the gifts of healing-but all can pray for healing and be healed. No, all should not speak in tongues-or, as he points out, the Church will not be edified (unless there is an interpreter). And no, all do not interpret-but he says that if you do speak in tongues in a Church where there is no interpreter, then you can pray for the interpretation (even if you don't have the gift for the interpretation of tongues!) Most would agree that we all teach, we all exhort, we all encourage-to a degree, but we wouldn't necessarily say that we have the gift to teach in the Church, or the gift to exhort the Church-could we do it? Yes, but it is far better to let those who excel in certain gifts be the ones who use the gifts in the Church. We can't all be the preacher, but we can all preach! We can't all be the eye but we can all see! We all can't be the ear in the Assembly, but we can all hear!
Ok, to continue:
1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in a tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
Paul in no way diminishes the value of speaking in tongues for our own edification, but as far as the Church goes there is a need for public edification, thus he continues to focus on what is best for the public assembly.
Apparently Paul thought it was a good idea for all to speak in tongues for personal edification (I'm sure this is where the phrase "personal prayer language" comes from) but his emphasis is the edification of the whole Church in this context.
1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
It is interesting to note that speaking in tongues--with interpretation-- edifies the Church as much as prophecy.
1Co 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
1Co 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. {easy: Gr. significant}
1Co 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in a tongue pray that he may interpret.
Once again, interpretation is necessary if the Church is to benefit.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
Praying in this personal prayer language edifies the believer because it is the spirit that is praying. This can be done at home, but when the assembly of believers meet together it is much better to speak with the understanding so that all can be edified.
Paul not only spoke in tongues at home but it seems he spoke everywhere but the Church!
1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an tongue.
Ok, next he goes back to the initial reason for tongues-the outward sign of the infilling of the Holy Spirit:
1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying [serveth] not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in [those that are] unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the most [by] three, and [that] by course; and let one interpret
1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
I've been in Churches that stress the no speaking in tongues without an interpreter passage to a fault, but I believe that you can not take that passage out of context and place it into the context of our modern Church without first having the same problems that prevailed at Corinth.
We really do need more of the gifts in operation in our Churches and if an atmosphere is created where these gifts are stifled we all suffer.
Think about it, you will never know if you have an interpreter unless someone speaks in tongues, and I can envision that there might be a time when someone might speak out in tongues and the person who had the gift of interpretation didn't bring it forth. It might take a few times for some people to become bold enough to stand in the assembly, so be a little patient. Sure, if there is a problem (like at Corinth) where speaking in tongues predominates the meeting, there needs to be some regulation, but lets face it, most of our Churches don't have a problem where the gifts have to be regulated.
moulder
[Updated on: Wed, 01 February 2006 05:26]
I want to believe!
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| | Topic: Church Government |
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| Church Government [message #8] |
Wed, 01 February 2006 04:58 |
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william
Messages: 1451
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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This was something I wrote in response to a question about different ministries within the Church. I believe all believers have gifts (1Cor 12) but in this discussion I'm limiting myself to those gifts that are closely related to Church Government.
First some terms:
Disciples: We are all called to be disciples, which means a "learner". (Acts 11:26). All Christians should be disciples!
Minister: One who serves! All of us are called to minister/serve.
Apostle: My understanding is that an "apostle" is literally "one who is sent" and specifically has come to designate one who is chosen and sent by God to accomplish a particular task. It is one of the "offices" of Church listed in Eph. 4:11f which to me indicates that as long as the Church is in existence the office is valid. Do I know any apostles personally? No. *grin*
Elder: There are two types, those who are the spiritually mature "pillars" of the church and those who are among the leadership of the church. The classic OT example is the 70 elders that Moses chose to help lead the children of Israel. These would be the elders with the anointing to rule, but there were many more elders in the nation of Israel, in fact these 70 were chosen from a much larger group of elders.
In the church there are usually many who are considered elders because of their spiritual maturity but only a few of these would be placed in overseer type positions. This latter group would be considered the (grk)"episcopate" or overseeing elders, in the NT.
Deacon: Again, there are two types of (grk)"diaconate" mentioned in the NT. The word means "those who serve." In our time the word is used mostly as a designation for those who serve the physical needs of the church (table-servers--taken from the example given in Acts 6:2.) But in the NT the word is also used as a designation for those who serve the spiritual food to the church, i.e. Word ministers. (see Acts 6:4 where the same term is used to describe the Word-servers!)
Shepherd: Could describe those with the pastoral gift (one who feeds the flock) as well as those who have been given the oversight (episcopate.) The term is loaded with imagery and meaning from both the OT and new.
Overseer: Sometimes referred to as a "bishop," and falls into the category of the "episcopate." 1 Pet2:25 Refers to God as the "Shepherd" and "Overseer" of our souls. One translation uses the term "guardian" which accurately describe the "episcopate."
In summery, there are basically two groups in the NT Church that God uses to protect and mature His saints. The diaconate (specifically the "Word" servers) and the episcopate.
The diaconate can be summed up quite nicely by the list given in Eph 4:11f, apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. Each of these gifts are given by *God* to the individual and no one else has a say as to who gets what gift. These gifts are independent of men and are between the individual and God alone.
The episcopate gifts on the other hand are given only in the context of a group or groups of people and only have relevance with respect to that group or groups. The episcopate combines the ideas of overseer,(episkopos Heb.12:15--looking diligently) rulership,(heigeomai Acts15:22 Heb.13:7,17,24) and those who "stand before"(proisteimi Rm 12:8, 1Thess.5:12 1Tim.3:4; 5:12.)
Obviously, those with the diaconate gifts (Eph4:11f Pastors, Teachers, Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists) need a group of people to be able to discharge their gifts effectively, but their gift is *independent* of these groups. They are given their gifts apart from the hand of man and must answer to God for the use or misuse of their gifts. For example a person with pastoral gifts might travel to another assembly and if given an opportunity to speak his message will be pastoral in nature (not that he would become their pastor, but the gift would be in evidence by the "feeding the flock" nature of his message.) In other words, his gift travels with him! The same thing could be said for the prophet, teacher, etc..
The episcopate (ruling) gifts on the other hand only arise when there is a need for them and only exist as long as the need exists. A person might be called into the position of elder and begin to function in that capacity, but if he travels to another city his "episcopate" gift doesn't travel with him. He would exercise no authority in any other assembly. His gift would not have meaning apart from his "sphere of authority."
Sometimes the two different giftings overlap and this makes it hard to distinguish between the diaconate and the episcopate. Usually a person with the pastoral (one who feeds the sheep) calling will also be given episcopate gifts to oversee and rule in the local assembly. Paul was both apostle (diaconate) and elder/overseer (episcopate) to the gentile assemblies.
I hope I haven't bored you with all of this, it has always been a favorite subject of mine!
I would welcome your thoughts on this subject.
moulder
I want to believe!
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| | Forum: Introductions & General |
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| Topic: What Pilot called Jesus and why. |
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| What Pilot called Jesus and why. [message #14104] |
Fri, 22 March 2024 15:44 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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In Matt. 27:24 Pilot calls Jesus a just person. that is because he understood that he was innocent. He calls him a person. That is because he is a man. In 1Tim. 2:5 we have one God. Then we have a mediator. He puts on the flesh by his birth and grows to be a man. Now he will be a person. In 2Cor. 2:10 in the person of Christ will be forgiveness given. Now before Jesus was born and was God in the flesh, he was Spirit. In Jn. 4:24 God is a Spirit . What is the point?
When Jesus who is God put on human body, a man. He was then called a person. In Lk. 24:39 a Spirit has no flesh or bones. The distinction would be that God is not a person until he puts on flesh. Only on a cross could flesh die and shed blood. It was the giving up of his person and his life ( the life of the flesh is the blood) , that he could pay the price required to atone for our sins.
Jesus was one with the Holy Spirit and the father. but his distinct personality came and put on flesh to become a person. When his work on earth was finished, he returned to the heavenly throne of his former glory. Phil. 2:5-10 He is equal with God and became a servant for us. and then is exalted when returning to his former place. form means the same image. Yet distinct from God the Father in personality. He even gets the highest name of Jesus. Yet he is still God. That name means savior. This personality of God is to be savior. Yet God says call me father. Matt. 5:48 and 6:9. God is one essence eternally manifest in 3 personalities, Father, son, Holy Spirit.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: Philippians ch.4 the seven joys |
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| Philippians ch.4 the seven joys [message #14102] |
Wed, 06 March 2024 02:18 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Phil. 4:4 joy and rejoicing go together.
in 4:6 instead of being anxious and need of care we can pray and God will help us.
in 4:7 peace which is the gospel and all it's promises will keep us stable in heart and mind by Jesus.
in 4:8 these things keep us in praise and virtue and like Jesus.
in 4:9 The big one-- the presence of God will be with you.
in 4:11 though you may have wants or needs if you are content you will be calm.
In 4:13 just think it says (all) things we can do by God giving us strength and power.
In 4:19 He created heaven earth the universe, so how many riches does he have in glory? Yet he promises to supply all our needs. Through faith we receive inheritance as his sons and daughters.
These are 7 in number and create joy and rejoicing of ch 4:4.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: A valuable asset for end time preparation. |
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| A valuable asset for end time preparation. [message #14101] |
Wed, 06 March 2024 01:45 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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In the past few weeks the Lord has been blessing me in memorizing scriptures. There are many past things that have remembered and going over them also. those past things are so amazing how the mind stores them. The key is how to remember things. If you cannot show a passage to what you know as truth, a world full of opinions and actually in a state of opposition will not listen.
explaining a subject is more effectual from the heart and by experience. Wisdom of God helps reach the heart of the hearer. If one is under a anointing they will have many operations of the Spirit to convince the hearers. One example is when a person was with me and I gave a word of knowledge. He was told we were about to find ourselves in trouble and what it was. It happened. next time I saw him and he said he was excited that I knew before what would happen. It was for both our benefits what God revealed.
The great blessing of saying scriptures for memory is we find ourselves being renewed in our minds from the carnal worldly thoughts. Thinking about God keeps us walking in one nature of Christ. I thank God for giving me several ways to remember scriptures it is a gift from the Spirit of God.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: evil came on Job ? |
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| evil came on Job ? [message #14098] |
Sun, 25 February 2024 03:53 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Job was a target of the Satan. If boils came, that was evil that came upon him physically. The loss of possessions must be included. That was also what came upon him. We can see that things can be misinterpreted. All that came upon him was physical and not physical-- though it is said it came upon him. He was not in the house when it burned down but still it came upon him.
I hope you see my point. we are dealing with statements here. all that happened came upon him. Job 2:11 shows that. it made others feel bad. They tried to figure it out. see ch. 2:10. In all this Job sinned not.
Now think about Jesus. The whip (evil) came upon him. add, the pulling of his beard, the spit, the nails, the physical abuse (evil) came upon him. but in all this he sinned not. He said Father forgive them for they know not what they do. No sin came upon him, just the abuse ( the evil of the people he would forgive.)
Remember when he was raised from the dead? Jn. 20:17 He was so Holy that he told Mary to not touch him. He must first go to his Father in heaven. He was a spotless Lamb. Also he saw no corruption.
my sins which were committed in my life time were forgiven by him over 2,000 years ago. He didn't wear them, only by faith in his blood atonement, I received forgiveness. that makes me free by believing his finished work on the cross and resurrection. oh what mercy, oh what grace. For all who believe.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: What I saw from God Tuesday |
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| What I saw from God Tuesday [message #14095] |
Thu, 15 February 2024 18:20 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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It had rained on Monday and all day Tuesday. On Tuesday evening the sun was right on the horizon. There was that last mist of rain as the rain was also leaving. It is very likely that you can picture in your mind a rainbow you saw before. This rainbow was 4 times as wide. each color was at least half the size as one color in a regular rainbow. The colors were perfect as if painted on the sky. All this rainbow was a full bow and it was over my house.
When thinking about it, I remembered that in reviewing old notes the Monday before spent a lot of time on my Noah notes.
On Wednesday, went to Hobart Freeman videos on you tube. right there was a new video posted just 2 hours ago and had 2 views. It was a message on Noah's flood.
What a shame and loss when poor saints don't have the Holy Spirit to show them the things God wants to reveal by his Spirit. The natural mind cannot understand them. Those things when understood take your breath away to.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: Return of the people of God. victory. |
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| Return of the people of God. victory. [message #14090] |
Mon, 29 January 2024 03:41 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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This one chap. applied to us today. Plus a special find from the Lord.
If you will read 1 Sam. 7 and see the picture there.
In verse 1-2 the ark is somewhere else for 20 years. This makes the people cry. That is because God must be on the ark which is his throne. Otherwise he is gone. The people are starting to miss him. They are still religious, but are not pleasing to him.
v.3-4 The Philistines are a big problem, but if they put away their gods they will receive the helper. Israel obeys and puts away their gods and gets their hearts right.
v.5-6 Samuel will pray for them and they will also pray and confess their sins. (like 1Jn.1:9).
v. 7-9 The Philistines (devil) comes after them, they cry for help. Samuel offers a sacrificial Lamb. v.10 God smites the enemy.
v.12 after the victory a stone is set up as a memorial. Ebenezer means stone of the helper. Because the Lord--in his mercy-- helped us. In the N.T. Heb. 2:18 we have the word succor. In Greek it means to aide or help. it is speaking of Jesus there.
Look at Matt. 21:42-44. The stone there refers to Jesus in both passages. Put those together and you have Jesus as a stone and a helper. I cannot say that the scriptures of Heb. Sam., and Matt. are united but they are spiritually significant.
v.17 Sam. built a alter near his home. We also build sacrificial alters with our lives. Rom. 12:1-2.
In 2 Sa. 6:9-15 In v.9-10, we see that David was understanding how important the ark was and it was to be reverenced. Yet Israel lost that respect for a while. Samuel helps them have a revival.
v.11 shows how a man who is upright can have great benefits and enjoy having God and his throne in their life. his name was Obededom. David sees the blessings of the Lord on Obededom and sees that it pays to be righteous and have God with him.
We have a parallel here. Israel were not Pagans they were God's people. They were being chastened to lead them to repentance. God brought them to the place and they repented. Then God gave victory. David shows how it pays to have God on the throne around him. You can see that God is sovereign and merciful for a little while. Lord be my helper and deliver me from my enemies is a great prayer. One man and a ark sounds like (a remnant).
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: Why are we called to live by faith? |
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| Why are we called to live by faith? [message #14089] |
Fri, 19 January 2024 03:06 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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It is not difficult to understand why that would be. A word was put in my Spirit this morning. It is so amazing because it is awesome that God did this.
In Matt. 9:v2 We see that Jesus forgave sins, for he saw faith. and the man was healed. After faith--Jesus forgave--and healed. see that? How would you know without wisdom of God to see Deut. 28:?
In 9:22 the woman was seen having faith then she was healed.
9:29 the blind man could see again-- by faith. Ps. 146:8 the Lord opens the eyes of the blind. This is said about God in the O.T.. That is Yahweh. now Jesus is the Lord- son of God healing the eyes. by man's faith.
What about the O.T.? I mentioned earlier that Deut. 28 comes in on this. What God is showing here is that Jesus is the one who can forgive sins. Also that if one has faith they receive something. So there it is. Deut. 28 is the biggest mention of the obey or disobey the law. When Jesus forgives sin the curse of the law is removed. How to remove the curse or curses? A living faith in Jesus to forgive and take away (any) curse. (by Faith) How ? By faith in his promises. The promises are the blessings of the law. If the law is removed by faith, that is sin or transgression. We are counted as righteous. Rom. 3-4. You will see that in reading Deut. 28. Promises of God are yes and amen--by faith.
Why the devil hates this is because he loves death and curses on people-- especially since he lost his. This is why the battle-- but by faith we conquer. We are made more than a conqueror through Christ Jesus.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: Word study on last part of Matt. 6:13 |
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| Word study on last part of Matt. 6:13 [message #14088] |
Fri, 19 January 2024 02:25 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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In Matt. 6:10 we have that the desire is for the kingdom to be on earth as it is in heaven. there is more but just that point for now.
v. 13 has 3 words that really go together and that is seen in that verse.
Kingdom. Let's lookat Rom. 14:17 and Jn. 14:17 righteousness , peace, joy in the Holy Spirit. and the Holy Spirit will be in you (the kingdom).
power.- That word is dunamis. in Greek. G1411 it means miraculous, mighty, and wonderful. This same word is used in Acts 1:8 you shall receive power (dunamis) after the Holy Spirit is come upon you.
glory- 1Pet. 4:14 He is called the Spirit of glory here.
the three words kingdom, power,glory all point to the Holy Spirit.
This seems to be the prayer ending with the desire for the Holy Spirit. Acts 1:5 makes the distinction of John's baptism and the Holy Spirit baptism. Same in Acts 19:3-6 one baptism is in Jesus name. John's was father, son, holy Spirit. (titles.) Acts 1 and 19 were after the cross.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: So glad Abraham endured for us. |
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| So glad Abraham endured for us. [message #14084] |
Sat, 13 January 2024 21:45 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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In Heb. 11:8,9, 11Sarah. we have Abraham in the faith hall of fame. We hear about him from time to time. Mostly of his success with birth of Isaac. This post is to encourage you that Abraham had trials to. He was victorious through God his friend.
1. Gen. 12:10 In a grievous famine.
2. 12:12 and 19 Egypt wants to take Sarah from him.
3. 13:7 the strife between the herdsmen.
4. 14:14 His bro. becomes captive.
5. 16:1-16 Hagar trouble.
6. 21:14 Sending Hagar away.
7. 20:2 Sarah taken at Gerar.
8. 26:1 another famine
9. 22:1-22 to offer up Isaac.
These 9 were info. I found and then added my message about Abraham and how he had faith and victory through his trials. I will have my students read all 9 and then look for themselves how God gave him victory. write that down beside them (the 9)for future reference. Looking forward to you getting a A on the exam---just kidding--God bless.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: The key answer to Sodom and Gomorrah |
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| The key answer to Sodom and Gomorrah [message #14083] |
Sat, 13 January 2024 21:24 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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To think one scripture would show us the answer. The world wide rebellion against God and his word. In 1Cor. 11:7-8 show us God and his plan. This rebellion is rising in religious and secular people. This scriptures reveals man and woman and their position. My Dad years ago was trying to make a point, though not liked, it was a good point today. He said if he calls a apple orange then it is orange the apple being red. His point was what he says is to be obeyed if he says it. Well communism is the same. If your a male and want to be a girl you are expected to be obeyed. If you dress wrong then you are right. Don't question it because I say so. (they say). Antinomianism is rebel against what is law or naturally right. Yet----- if you say it is wrong to do this or that, you are rejected. I just had a young man say to me after saying long ago I gave up rock music. He said what is wrong with rock music? He professes to be a Christian.
If I remove or put body parts on I still am what it says in my birth certificate. I rejoice that babies go to heaven after abortion. They will be waiting for me there.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: What is the pearl? |
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| What is the pearl? [message #14082] |
Mon, 08 January 2024 17:18 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Matt. 13:44-46 we have the parable of the pearl. Must see that he is talking about the kingdom of heaven. v.47 now it is a net. we have a field , a net, a pearl.
In Rom. 14:17 we notice a non broken connection between God in heaven and God the Holy Spirit. it is a kingdom. Jesus of that is also called the King.
In Job 28:13, 15, 18, As you read 13-18 and meditate , you will see he is talking about a non worldly thing. it is better than that which so great but far lesser. treasures of wealth are dull to it. it is called God's wisdom.
In 2 Cor. 4:7-8 We have treasures in earthen vessels. treasure in Greek is thesauros. That is where we get a book filled with treasure of knowledge. The Holy Spirit is a deposit of wealth (wisdom) in us. That pearl is greater than rubies.
In Prov. 31:10 we have a virtuous woman. In Hebrew virtuous means wealth, valor, strength, great force, might , power, riches. In Matt. 5:30 The woman touched Jesus and virtue went out of Jesus.
In Prov. 31, notice two words. wealth and riches. she is a woman filled with treasure (virtue). Her wealth comes from within.
The point we have here is that God's Spirit puts within the Believer his Holy Spirit to cause a treasure of wisdom which is far greater than worldly wealth of any kind. A lack of faith will only see a lust of the flesh, and of the eyes, and pride of life. Wisdom comes by the eyes of faith. see James 1:5 If you lack wisdom ask of God who gives freely (liberally) to all. But ask in faith. God has deposited the earnest of our inheritance into us. That is greatest treasure.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: Isa. 55 if I can just find the prophetical. |
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| Isa. 55 if I can just find the prophetical. [message #14081] |
Mon, 08 January 2024 16:34 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Isa. 55:1 If the Prophet is speaking of thirsting for waters in a prophetical manner then he includes the future. If not it is for O.T. folks.
Well after finding the prophetical then we have much future here included. 1. In v. 3 we have two. He says (everyone ) that comes in v.1 and v.3 He will make a everlasting covenant. Heb. 13:20 that covenant is everlasting and is the blood paid for our redemption. 2.In John ch. 4 He offers the woman free rivers of water for thirst to be for everlasting life. Jn. 7:37-39 shows us the water is the Holy Spirit. and he gives the living waters.
v.3 also there is the sure mercies of David. see Matt. 9:27 and Lk. 18:38-39. This is prophetical as to what Isaiah is saying. Jesus son of David and his mercies was future of Isa. 55:3.
Also 55:5 we have here the Holy one. He is for all nations. Mk. 1:24 and Acts 2:27 and Acts 3:14. also other places. In 55:13 we have for a name as a everlasting sign. Name refers to someone famous here in the Hebrew. It is the Lord for a name.
So verse 1 is the key. E-v-e-r-y-o-n-e- who thirsts. It doesn't stop at Jesus coming only, but it a everlasting covenant. Also everlasting water. Why? see Isa. 12v:3 wells of salvation. Including Jn. 7:37-39 Holy Spirit the water. and then it never ceases. see Rev. ch. 22:1-2 and Rev. 7:17. 21:6. it never stops flowing from the Holy Spirit from John to revelations and on to eternity.
In Acts 2:4 the utterance from the mouth comes from the belly, (inner man) which is the rivers of water. That is tongues. That then to be understood, (God praying through you) would need interpretation in your language. If a person seeks signs they could find false signs. When you pray in tongues you will know that this sign is not false. Why? God will show you in your language. You probably will need good teaching if you are a new beginner. If you go to a false teacher they can trick you because they are just making a noise and not real tongues.
Tongues is a secret kind of language so the devil doesn't know what God is saying through you. When the power of God manifests at the other time of what you prayed, Things just happen and are unhindered. That my friend is Halleluiah time. It is all about faith and believing God who never will fail you.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: All hail (rejoice.) Matt. 28:9-10. |
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| All hail (rejoice.) Matt. 28:9-10. [message #14070] |
Mon, 01 January 2024 02:35 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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In these verses we observe that as Jesus himself standing there says all hail. This salutation is saying for them to rejoice and be glad and not afraid. Notice when they fall it is to grab his feet and to worship and adore him. He is alive. Now they are able to touch him. Mary could not as he had not returned to his father yet. Their experience is a natural one filled with great joy.
If you get the chance try sometime just getting on your knees with hands raised and sing all hail king Jesus
all hail Emmanuel
king of kings, Lord of Lords,
bright morning star.
and throughout all eternity,
I'm going to praise you,
and forever more, I will reign with you.
God bless you king Jesus.--- guitar works to.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: My past as a band member for a gospel group. |
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| My past as a band member for a gospel group. [message #14069] |
Mon, 01 January 2024 01:51 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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years ago before knowing the faith walk, was the bass player for my church. it was a huge testimony going from a career as a rock musician to a servant for Jesus. The music there was holiness and I liked that. In those years played in a church band going to a halfway house in Ft. Lauderdale. That was a different band.
One day while playing Sunday service a Afro man asked if I would play in his band. He also was a holiness minister. He liked my bass playing and would join me to 6 other members. His past was a Jazz guitarist, and he was a pro. He was a former member of the mighty clouds of joy. We had-- Him, keyboard, trumpet, sax, drums, backup guitar and then my bass. We did a lot of Fla. roadwork.
Here is what he would announce. He would say each member and there instrument. Then he would say and David (my name ) live and in living color. All the people would laugh as it was funny and not at me. Why?--because everywhere we went I was the only white person in the house. I ministered to possibly thousands of black Christians with my bass.
One incident in the halfway house band. Some time later would make our music and share simple gospel to them. At one meeting while on the area with the people, I walked up to a man and shared the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. He had said he was saved. He was visible as a foreigner. Also a deep accent. He knew English a little. He received the baptism and I demonstrated tongues for his understanding. He began to weep in a strong way. Then he told me. He said I know what you are saying. It must have been personal as he didn't tell me. He did say that I was speaking in his Arab tongue. What is real strange is my research showed me I was speaking in Greek and Hebrew and Arabic. In one sentence. Those words brought deep tears to his eyes. That also confirmed his Baptism as he spoke in tongues also. Hope you enjoyed this testimony of God and his greatness.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: delivered from a spirit of my past. |
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| delivered from a spirit of my past. [message #14068] |
Sun, 31 December 2023 02:45 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Yesterday the Holy Spirit led me to pray for forgiveness about a past issue. It was as he was helping me to pray.
Today while listening to the message ---The call to prepare, end times, by Hobart Freeman, on you tube. half way through it was anointed with a very powerful tongues, which just seemed to come upon me. That means it was God doing it and not me. My body was in full control but the spirit was crying out as though it were tormented. It got tighter and tighter as though the power of God had me in hold. it was hollering in me. Then it left. There was great peace within me.
I am serious about being free and more on the alter for his grace and great things he has for me to bless his wonderful name. Nothing means more to me than going beyond knowing the word so as to walk in his fullness. What awesome life to have experience beyond just knowledge. give me more oil in my lamp and keep me burning keep me burning.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: testimony-- before I went over the waterfall. |
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| testimony-- before I went over the waterfall. [message #14067] |
Tue, 26 December 2023 21:39 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Some years ago was out in my boat fishing. The L shaped lake at the half way point there is a very high waterfall. My Evinrude motor was running on a battery for the ignition. In the area turning motor off to fish. I found my boat drifting toward the falls so would start it up to move on. The battery was dead. While drifting towards the waterfall and very close, pray and say Jesus.
All of a sudden a wind came and my boat started heading away from the falls. I hardly had to use the oars as moving in the right direction was easy. Even had a wonderful kind of peace in my heart. Did go back out there at a later date.
One time while out there while fishing a butterfly landed on my shirt pocket.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: God already had a plan for me this week. |
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| God already had a plan for me this week. [message #14066] |
Tue, 26 December 2023 21:24 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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This is to edify those who will realize God is working behind the scenes of their life.
My wife said my jacket looked horrible and should wear something else. Meanwhile was looking for a opportunity to find something this past year. One week after she said my coat is bad, she was cleaning out a closet we don't use. That closet was being prepared for guests who do use it. It is our second home. She found a brand new coat that looks like it never had been worn before. it is heavy with wind breaker material and a removable hood. it reminds me of the statement, you already have it before you ask. Praise God.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: I saw a demoniac when working in Broward county mental inst. |
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| I saw a demoniac when working in Broward county mental inst. [message #14064] |
Tue, 26 December 2023 20:52 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Just like the bible, he was exactly the same. He would even cut himself. He would bang his head so he wore a football helmet. He was tied to the chair with his arms restrained but he was a Houdini. He always got out. He wouldn't keep clothes on. He was put in a padded cell when he would escape the chair. Most of all--he was a millionaire. He was the son of a millionaire. He could not enjoy any of it.
He makes a great analogy. He is like a Christian who could have all God's blessings, by faith, but remains restrained by the powers of darkness, just because of wrong thinking. Hurting his own self because he goes without all God has for him.
Here is another person. He was a giant. He was huge in muscles also. We were alerted to go and restrain him--several people of coarse. They said lay off we will send the security officers. When we saw him he had his bed standing up head board down foot board up. he was wild. One officer said to him, will you go with us? He calmly said okay. He was acting like a normal person. Off he walked to maximum security. He will be restrained and behind bars for a little while.
He makes a good analogy also. The officer who has been delegated as a authority, just spoke a word and the dangerous man obeyed. We can speak God's word by faith and have the authority of the Holy Spirit. The powerful enemy knows we have authority of God's word. We are more than a conqueror through Christ Jesus. Remember the devil acts up but we have power of God and his word. God bless.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: where is your wallet right now? |
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| where is your wallet right now? [message #14063] |
Mon, 25 December 2023 03:23 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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After leaving to go to the store, where is my wallet? Had to put groceries back. One or two days later we found our guests wallet on the floor by the table. We returned it that evening. Then came this Holy Spirit understanding. It was something he wanted to share with his people.
The importance of a wallet. It is so important to us we have to have it. It is a mandatory item we live with. Some things we have are not as important. But the wallet, it is a must. We go nowhere without it.
What about the bible. or prayer, or things of the Christian life. Are they less important than our wallet? Can we live without God things? Thinking and talking, and actions of righteousness. Are they mandatory or not as important as the wallet. God promises all we need. Even a new wallet. it is the father's good pleasure to give us the kingdom. Can you imagine God saying--oh I forgot to give them the kingdom? That will never happen. Oh I forgot to praise God today. For me --not going to happen.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: Dreams |
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| Dreams [message #14061] |
Fri, 15 December 2023 12:29 |
Ron S
Messages: 10
Registered: November 2023
Location: Van Wert,Ohio |
Junior Member |
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12-14-23 early AM
Dream
In the dream a was visiting a friend or relative in Naples, Fl. We were outdoors when we heard planes flying over. I asked if they thought the planes were landing at the airport, we thought they were too big to land at Naples. We looked out over the Gulf of Mexico as other planes were coming. Then there was a large explosion over the Gulf and flames came down to the water, stretching back to the clouds as we stood there in awe, then the flames came in off the water going north and consuming everything in its path.
Meaning:
There is a firestorm coming to this land, like has never been seen before.You must warn My people of the impending dangers.
Turn their hearts to Me (The Lord) and I will protect and preserve them.
12-15-23 Am
Dream
I was at a high end Motel (like in New York City)
I was given a master key, to help serve those in the building better.
Meaning:
I have given My people, The Keys to the Kingdom ! Take those Keys, and step up and serve Me (The Lord) in a way higher than you have ever served Me before.
For God has not given us a spirit of fear,but of power and of love and of a sound mind.
2 Timothy 1:7
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| | Topic: another tip for a successful life. |
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| another tip for a successful life. [message #14058] |
Tue, 12 December 2023 16:54 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Though they are not the same, but are companions, they are called thanks and praise. Eph. 6,12,14 we are called to the praise of his glory.
2Cor. 4:15 notice here that part b. abundant grace through the thanksgiving of many redound to (the glory of God.)
in 1Tim. 4:4 Look at the requirement here. nothing to be refused if it be received with thanks giving -- not the Holiday here.
We can give God nothing. He can give us everything. Actually he already has by faith it is paid for at Calvary. Think of it this way first that we can serve him joyfully and offer that sacrifice. or offer the sacrifices of thanks and praise continually. Thanks is a action of faith. That is before we receive our petition. Not to ask only, but to thanks him for it beforehand.
Look at our example. Jesus always pleased the Father. Can we not reach the goal of being God's friend and being blessed and loved.
Thank you Jesus, thank you father , thank you Holy Spirit. thank you, thank you, praise you almighty God, bless your wonderful name. All day long. How can we be lonely, he is right there listening.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: All things work for good. |
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| All things work for good. [message #14057] |
Tue, 12 December 2023 16:29 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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My younger brother has passed away. I was closer to him than the 2 older ones. He was confused and believed in the aliens are god theory. I shared with him several years by word and my life. He was moved by that but also his other theory.
God has given me continual comfort peace and joy. Actually over whelming. The work for good is that through this we now have 5 kinfolk which we have not been in contact for years. They all talk about Jesus. They live far off. 4 of them are my brothers 3 kids and one grand daughter. They are not kids anymore and what a transformed life they reveal. They came and took responsibility in a mature way and lifted our burden. Before they left was able to sing to them a couple worship songs. Out the door the son said you sing like a angel.
They gave me some things that prospered me as they thought they would comfort me. Oh God Acts 16 save now Lord all my family and kin. The greatest thing was that I could share Jesus with all of them.
I have shared before that God has manifested my faith with many free instruments. I also have a guitar my brother gave me for free which is a none electric 6 string. I have 2 Basses, (free) 3 guitars (free) 3 guitars special buy. and many instruments. All used to praise and worship.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: My experience with Jesus today. |
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| My experience with Jesus today. [message #14051] |
Thu, 07 December 2023 02:40 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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As I was worshipping this morning, I found it full of God's presence. The things God was telling me were so joyful. They were huge blessings and the joy was so full. Then the anointing for tongues came upon me. Even travail. God was preparing me for this early evening. Now I know it was comfort.
The news came from the Sheriff in North Alabama. Someone noticed my younger brother had not been seen lately. They barged his door and found him dead. They found he had been dead for 3 or more weeks. he was barely recognizable. This was chaos to me. For 2 years sharing Jesus with him and he became more uninterested. My heart is sad though comforted. We were close through life.
The Lord reminded me of my post on intersession yesterday. God knows our tomorrows and he will comfort us by his Holy Spirit. Thank you Jesus for tongues. I may find I was praying for more than I know yet. May God have mercy on my other 2 brothers. Because my sins are forgiven I know I have hope.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: The privilege of intersession. |
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| The privilege of intersession. [message #14050] |
Tue, 05 December 2023 16:57 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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The Hebrew is very clear. qarab-- to approach , to draw near. that same word is used Lev. 1:3 offer-- qarab. to put that together we have our (approaching )by (offer) the Lamb. This was shown to me as study of word intersession.
To be clear-- when we come to our Father God in Jesus name, (Lamb)because we are allowed to approach him by faith. see Heb. 10:22 (How we draw near. )
Ps. 65:4 Blessed are they that God chooses and causes to approach him to dwell in his courts. now study deeply into verses 2-5. Some of you may see latter rain in v.10. Dt. 32:2.
2 passages in N.T. Heb. 4:16 my--( Approach) boldly to the throne of grace in time of need. and Heb. 10:22 my-- let us Approach ) with a true heart in full assurance of faith with the blood and water of the word.
I hope that this invitation will delight you with the privilege to draw near and approach his throne to be absolutely satisfied with God's free grace. James 1:5 He gives wisdom (liberally) haplos--bountifully.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: overcomers carry a big broom. |
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| overcomers carry a big broom. [message #14049] |
Tue, 05 December 2023 16:23 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Before the great tribulation, which is to cleanse the earth in preparation for the return of Christ. God has left a tremendous hope. It is his big brooms. As you see the story in Exodus 12 You find before the Passover meal the people are using brooms to sweep up all the leaven to get it out of the house. The bread must be unleavened.
Leaven is old leftover bread added to the fresh new bread. Jesus used the leaven as a spiritual picture to show a corrupt additive to anything. Once added to a pure bread the whole loaf is effected. That is why errors and false teaching are a danger to the pure doctrine and can corrupt the saints unless as we know they are elect. The elect will be taught first then they can discern-- because then they know the truth to protect them. see Matt. 6:6,11,12 this is a example of spiritual leaven.
points in 1Cor. 5:6-8. 1. just a little leaven is all it takes to ruin the whole lump. 2. pass over here is showing the way a new lump is made. must sweep out the old leaven. 3. old spiritual leaven is wickedness and malice. the new is sincerity and truth.
We are God's brooms to rid the Earth of as much leaven as we can by his power. Then he will come and do the big cleansing and bring his reign of righteousness without leaven.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: Does anointed music work |
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| Does anointed music work [message #14045] |
Sat, 02 December 2023 03:28 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Some time ago This happened.
Where I was working I was allowed to have scrap wood that was not of value anymore. It had some value to me and so I put it up for sale in the thrifty paper. three weeks went by and almost forgot about it.
While in the kitchen with the window open( Hot day) was worshiping and praising God. This Lady came to the window and said good music. She said do you still have wood. She went out there and bought 60 dollars worth. When you are walking by faith and God supplies, it is great joy. The wood was free to me. That is just one story of God supplying according as he has promised.
I encourage you to give God glory with testimonies of his faithfulness. No test I phonies only testimonies. glory to God.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: Big deliverance from trouble because of tongues. |
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| Big deliverance from trouble because of tongues. [message #14044] |
Sat, 02 December 2023 03:07 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Traveling one and a half miles one way to minister in nursing home. Almost there the truck motor blows up but only internally. The distance was not close to the home so didn't make it. Praise God I was close to a automotive store. Thinking this thing through was not good. Went into the store and walked up and down the rows praying to myself in tongues.
Then the employee said what is up. I told him. He said I know a man who is mechanically skilled. Also a friend of the employee. I can have him come and look at it. he came and looked and saw it was bad. He was real friendly. He offered to pull my truck on a trailer he had and bring it home. He said he would do it for 100 dollars. That far would have cost at least 250. He came back with the trailer and his wife.
Long story short, he is kin to Dwight Pentecost (his last name Pentecost) we talked about Jesus one hour and a half. including stopped to let me get some supper. We both had joy and happiness the way home. Glory to God for tongues. My truck was not even possible to fix. God did provide another truck also.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: update on former Pastors teaching. |
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| update on former Pastors teaching. [message #14033] |
Tue, 28 November 2023 21:14 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Dangerous to share this may the Lord lead me.
Our Pastor Mike showed us about how the 2 buildings at the Vatican contained women in one (nuns) and men in the other. It was found that at night they had a way under the ground to come together. They would have children and abort them. recently the question arose, why is a statue of Lucifer down in the art department down stairs. If I am mistaken it may be some form of art. To add why are Pope funerals a exact copy of Egyptian mummification. We are in need of those who expose all dangerous actions toward Christians as they are arising as Jesus said in Matt. 24.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: A new movement coming in to hijack popular Christians. |
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| A new movement coming in to hijack popular Christians. [message #14031] |
Tue, 28 November 2023 21:00 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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A certain serious gentleman, cannot release his name yet. Has brought attention to this movement. Popular singers are a opportunity to attract people to the Ecumenical movement. 1. Chris Tomlin has been writing songs with Mahler for few years. Mahler like Redman have said they were Christians but the they are really Catholics. They both are seen bowing on their knees to the Pope.
Greg Laurie is seen and heard speaking to his "good friend" Alice Cooper. Look what he said to Alice who says he is a Christian. Greg--- God gave you a gift and you are using it. His gift is showing demonic , occult entertainment. With hard rock.
Kari Jobe has embraced the Jesus gone to fight for the keys from Satan Heresy. Many like Lauren Daigle who teaches another religion, have sold out to Sony recordings.
money is a key factor. Another part of the problem is many conferences by so called leaders, who teach heretical or super error in doctrine. T.D.Jakes is a oneness preacher who cause people to fall under the power. Heresy plus power doesn't work for me.
The sad part is if we sing their songs we promote them. A great song without Christ is like a angel of light. My calling is to tell truth and it may hurt but the option for all hearers is you have something better to offer. My songs come from the Holy Spirit or from conservative camps. Ask yourself, do they believe the faith message. Also what do they believe that lines up with God's word.
Notice how the word embrace is used in the song Oceans. My discernment reveals something that I cannot say here. Oh and don't search for it. So you know, I am a worship leader.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: Elbert Willis testimony. |
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| Elbert Willis testimony. [message #14023] |
Sat, 18 November 2023 02:33 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Bro. Willis offered the 3 year course which was a faith based teachings and it came by mail. I am not updated on his ministry but at that time many years ago it was very edifying. He was huge on the teaching of watching the tongue and speaking God's word.
In short his testimony was that he was a criminal caught in printing false money. He found Jesus in prison and was filled with the Spirit. He prayed for favor with the judge. God gave him a vision and saw the judge setting him free. He had prayed that if God would free him he would preach to the glory of God for the rest of his life. He kept his word and God did free him.
through the years I have seen those who were Godly and fell and others who were very ungodly and became great for God.
I am hopeful that his ministry has continued to bless and stay error free.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: gospel tracts |
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| gospel tracts [message #14022] |
Sat, 18 November 2023 02:17 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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When living in Fla. while in a small church band going weekly to a halfway house in Ft. Lauderdale, met many situations there. This one is about a man standing up and telling us his short testimony. I didn't understand how this could be that he was there but he told this to us. As he told it he was crying heavily and still clearly told us he was a hit man in the mafia. He said he was walking on the street and there was a Billy Graham tract on the ground. As he read it he said it spoke directly to him. It seemed to be written to him. He cried and asked Jesus to come into his life and forgive him. He may have had help to get released, but he had us all convinced he was telling the truth. Wow if tracts can be that great let us share them. I have found some in the men room at the stores. I really like Dr. Freeman's tracts.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: In a halfway house. |
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| In a halfway house. [message #14021] |
Sat, 18 November 2023 01:55 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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This is a testimony of a past experience while ministering in a halfway house. The people sit along a wall or in the front part of a congregation type room. I had been ministering in a nursing home when invited to come the same day to the halfway. Then started going weekly. One week this fellow was sitting there and he looked like he was suicidal. I could see that in the Spirit. It was horrible. Well glad I was there to change that. The anointing of God on the music did what David did to Saul. This fellow was up and dancing with joy on his face.
The head preacher in later meetings began to say things in his message to show that revealed he didn't like me. He came up with a scheme to draw people away to himself so they would leave after the messages. That is go to get something at his church. What he was saying was we all don't have to sing so pretty. The people liked my singing as I could see on their faces.
I forgive those like that because God gets all the glory I am just his servant.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: Does your successes seem small. |
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| Does your successes seem small. [message #14020] |
Sat, 18 November 2023 01:16 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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You are doing what you can to make a difference in this world. Those mind battles arise sometimes and tell you a negative report. If you look around you can see many Christian works that are unfruitful. That work you did that seems so small and insignificant was true and righteous and faithful.
Look at Noah. He was a righteous man. He was calling people to repentance. For a long 120 years he built by faith a ship as he was told to do. Well look at the results. Only he and his family, and many animals were delivered from the (tribulation) wrath of God. Bottom line? His success was that he obeyed God and was delivered and lived a long life in prosperity.
After sharing Jesus with a beggar this week, That anointing of grace came on him and he was under my spiritual tent. He started quoting a lot of scriptures and actually was like a member in the body of Christ. How that is that all the members in a assembly come and share what is on their heart but in accord with the same message. example: If God was leading about law and grace. Different members would be sharing by their gifts or what God showed them before the meeting maybe during the week. What everyone would be saying with be in line with the topic God is trying to express.
I shared with him and he would come back with a custom fit scripture. If God can and he will get rid of all the self seeking flesh major wonders will come forth by the Holy Spirit. In the mean time stay in the word and believe God to speak to you personally. Believe you me, God loves to talk and leave your jaws dropping. He also gets personal in a positive way--not always rebuking.
In times of persecution (now), God is pouring out more comfort than we all can handle. That is, so much it's hard to write it all down. I have a encyclopedia at least 5 feet long. all of it is spiritual from the Holy Spirit and none of it is known unless God told them to someone else. I hope so. I walk in revival every day and can't wait to get up each day.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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| | Topic: No blotting for Moses. |
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| No blotting for Moses. [message #14017] |
Wed, 15 November 2023 19:33 |
David Coleman
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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In Ex. 32:32-33 Moses is negotiating with God. Notice that he was willing to take Miriam's place for her sin. God replies and says only if someone sins will they be blotted out of the book of life.
Look at this. Moses didn't sin, and God cannot punish him by the blot out from the book. Remember Jesus is charged with sin by his persecutors. Therefore he never sinned.
Now in Num. 12:11 Aaron says lay not this sin upon us. W--e have done foolishly. You know Moses learned the right way about not being blotted out in Exodus. Now in Numbers he has learned to just pray to God for the sinners. In Num. 12:12-15 Moses prays to God in faith and asks for her forgiveness and healing.
See how Father God feels. He is righteously angry. He will punish sin but also accept Moses prayer.
God will punish our sins, but no not punish us if he can find a substitute. He has to receive a life or a Bekah payment for sin. The 30 pieces of silver (Bekah) sanctuary money. which purchased the field of blood. This was for selling Jesus.
Jesus was the life payment for sin. Look at Lk. 23:34. Jesus says father forgive them for they know not what they do.
Remember how Moses prays that Miriam would be healed and that sin be forgiven? Look at Matt. 9:6. A. Jesus before the cross forgives sin. B. Then they are healed of the palsy. He didn't take sin on him then. He just forgives.
The cross was to make a one time offering for any believer. it was a perfect sacrifice by a spotless Savior. He was the perfect Lamb. He was just in perfect timing with pass over. I hope you see that it is all about forgiveness and not any sin put on Jesus. He forgave sins before the cross and didn't wear them. He gave healing. I am a uneducated fisherman. (fishing for the truth). This was a big catch.
faith-- forsake all I trust him. Baal-- believe apostacy all lost. bible-- believe in bible life eternal.
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