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Understanding the Parables [message #10666] Mon, 16 December 2013 13:20 Go to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Can anybody explain this parable in plain English.

Luke 16:1-7

The steward had wasted the goods so basically he was fired. The steward then goes and gives his masters customers a huge discount in what they owed him.

What happens next? The master commends the unjust steward for having done wisely. You would of thought the master would be mad because the steward was being dishonest with his goods.

Luke 16:8-13

Just wondering if anyone had some insight on this parable. I don't see why the guy commended him for being dishonest with his goods.

Gary

Re: Understanding the Parables [message #10667 is a reply to message #10666 ] Mon, 16 December 2013 16:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Maybe there's more to it than what seems obivious (the obivious is that the steward did indeed squandered the rich man's goods and then settled the debts at a huge reduction), could it be that it's showing the same forgiveness as the parable of the prodigal son in the previous chapter who blew his inheritance and still his father took him back with open arms? I'm not saying they're exactly alike, (one's meaning is clear, the other not so clear<grin>)but the forgiving and restoration is similar.

Another thought, while the lesson isn't all that clear to me, Jesus was addressing the Pharisees who were lovers of money, I think they 'got it' (Luke 16:14). There was four parables given in Luke 15 and 16: "The Lost Sheep", "The Lost Coin", "The Prodigal Son", and "The Unjust Steward". They fit together to make the point to the Pharisees who were trying to 'trip-up' Jesus. As usual, He took the deeper truths of God and made them simple so even a Pharisee[I can't resist saying "Caveman"<TV commercial>] could understand it.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Understanding the Parables [message #10668 is a reply to message #10666 ] Mon, 16 December 2013 20:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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I take it to mean that the unjust steward was being commended, not for the way he handled his masters finances, but for the way he cleverly kept his options open after being fired!

Even the world recognizes and sometimes even admires those who are clever enough to extricate themselves from a bad situation by making lemonade out of it!

Another less obvious meaning could be (i.e. it isn't explicitly stated) that the master got some return from those who might not otherwise pay anything... maybe the year of Jubilee was fast approaching and at that time all of the debt would have been erased anyway leaving the master with nothing. This is probably stretching things a bit but it is a possible interpretation assuming that the hearers of the parable knew that the year of Jubilee was imminent.

Blessings,
William




I want to believe!
Re: Understanding the Parables [message #10669 is a reply to message #10668 ] Tue, 17 December 2013 06:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Your probably both right here. Another thing is what Jesus says about the situation:

Quote:

Luke 16:8 So the master commended the unjust steward because he had dealt shrewdly. For the sons of this world are more shrewd in their generation than the sons of light.


The sons of the world are more shrewd then the sons of light?

Quote:

9 “And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by unrighteous mammon, that when you fail, they may receive you into an everlasting home.


Where to make friends with money or by unrighteous money(mammon)?

Quote:

10 He who is faithful in what is least is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in what is least is unjust also in much. 11 Therefore if you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? 12 And if you have not been faithful in what is another man’s, who will give you what is your own?


This I can see the importance of being honest with others belongings.

Quote:

13 “No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.”


Everybody(those out there involved in Christianity), seems to quote this verse a lot, but I think it means more then what everyone is saying it means.

Somehow its tied in with using money in a manner as shown in the parable. The unjust steward was wasting another man's money. Am I thinking right on this?

Gary



Re: Understanding the Parables [message #10678 is a reply to message #10669 ] Fri, 20 December 2013 08:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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This next parable I am beginning to wonder if modern day Christians have added an interpretation that was not intended by God.

I speak of the parable of the fig tree. Its interesting the farther we get from the time Israel became a nation we find people trying to figure out what is meant by a generation. From this men have moved the date up from 1948 at the signing of the Balfour declaration and say the generations began in 1967 when Jerusalem was restored back to the Jews. Even though they control Jerusalem the old city is divided into four sections basically. Christians in one quarter, Palestinians in another, etc., etc..

I went back and looked at several commentaries, Matthew Henry, Jamieson, Faucett and Brown and none of these men claim that this parable is involving the return of the Jews as a nation.

Matthew and Mark both say basically the same thing when quoting the parable word for word. Matthew 24:32-36 [edit to correct chapter...24 instead of 25] Mark 13:28-32, in Lukes gospel we are given more information in the parable. Luke 21:28-33.

Luke says; when the fig tree and all trees: when they shoot forth you see it and you know of your own selves that summer is near. What is meant by all trees, maybe all nations? I'm saying this; because, if men say the fig tree represents Israel then we have to look at least to this additional information given in Luke, concerning "all trees".

Everyone states that Israel represents the fig tree. But does this mean the parable automatically is talking of Israel as a nation?

What about when Jesus cursed the fig tree and it withered and died, Can we say this represented Israel as well if we follow this same logic? I know he was teaching a lesson and not telling a parable concerning this event.

Quote:

Mark 11:20-22

20 Now in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots. 21 And Peter, remembering, said to Him, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree which You cursed has withered away.”

22 So Jesus answered and said to them, “Have faith in God.


It would be interesting to know how everyone came to the conclusion that this parable of the fig tree budding forth, that it is definitely speaking of Israel as a nation returning to their land.

I am thinking that maybe Jesus is giving the parable to conclude what He has been teaching His disciples concerning the end times.

In other words when wickedness and evil start budding forth on a scale that has not been seen before, that "then" we will know His return is eminent.

I might be totally going out on a limb here, but as I shared earlier the farther we get from the date I don't think we can keep reinterpreting the generation calculations that everyone keeps modifying.

This parable is a bit of a puzzle and has over the last two thousand years been given many interpretations. I think at least for now we have to consider everything that Jesus is saying in the full context that He gave the parable.


Gary






Re: Understanding the Parables [message #10679 is a reply to message #10678 ] Fri, 20 December 2013 11:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I thought this was discussed over in the new section under "The Temple Mount". A generation was 80 years and 80 yrs from 1948 is 2028 minus 7 yrs for tribulation period equals 2021. Pay attention!<smile> In total fairness, Marilyn did state it was only her opinion.(in that post)

This isn't a parable, but I read this morning in Luke 15:7&10 about the joy in heaven of a sinner coming to repentance. It's my hearts desire to see sinners turning from sin unto Christ; in the meantime I'm not going to worry so much as to the exact time when Jesus returns, just consentrating on being ready whenever it is. I do think we're in the 'season' of His return, the trees do seem to be budding. As I imagine is close to your position, again as I said in that thread, I've adjusted my thinking on thinking I had everything figured out according to a certain timeline...

I do believe this, every generation has seen a decline in the moral fiber of society, but it certainly has accelerated over the last 50 yrs. But we also know the cup of iniquity could be bigger than we think, or maybe it's been running over for a while.

I'm so thankful that salvation isn't based upon my mental abilities to figure out every thing written in God's Word....I believe it ALL to be His Word, and by His Grace...I trust and obey...and when I fail to trust and obey, I seek forgiveness and start trusting and obeying again. I believe the promises of God and I believe He has sent The Holy Spirit to lead and guide us into all truth; He does, I am growing daily in the understanding of His Truth.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Understanding the Parables [message #10680 is a reply to message #10679 ] Fri, 20 December 2013 13:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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I know what you mean. Its not good to set dates, invariably they never come to pass and people then have to change their theology to fit what happened.

I ran across this scripture while reading and thought it was a good point.


Luke 17:20-21

20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

I think whole churches base their theology on future events.

I don't think our salvation is based on what is taking place way off into the future but its what were doing now. Christianity is losing ground in America though, I think the hand writing is on the wall. When persecution breaks out full force we won't be worrying about what some symbol means in the Bible. If you know what I mean.

Gary








Re: Understanding the Parables [message #10701 is a reply to message #10666 ] Sat, 04 January 2014 18:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Hi Gary,

Your comments got me thinking -

Quote:

`Can anybody explain this parable in plain English.

Luke 16:1-7

The steward had wasted the goods so basically he was fired. The steward then goes and gives his masters customers a huge discount in what they owed him.

What happens next? The master commends the unjust steward for having done wisely. You would of thought the master would be mad because the steward was being dishonest with his goods.

Luke 16:8-13

Just wondering if anyone had some insight on this parable. I don't see why the guy commended him for being dishonest with his goods.`


Here are some thoughts I had -


Luke 16: 1 – 13 The parable of the Unjust Steward.

Jesus is talking to his disciples & the Pharisees (16: 1 & 14) concerning serving God or mammon. (16: 13) I used my father`s `26 translations of the Holy Bible,` to help me understand this parable. Here is a part of it –

Luke 16: 8

The Lord commended the unjust steward, because he had been so careful for his own future, for the men of the world in dealings with their own kind – in temporal matters, act with more business sense than those who enjoy spiritual light.

Luke 16: 9

And my counsel to you is, win friends by the right use of your money, which so easily tends to wrongdoing, so that when money is a thing of the past your friends may welcome you into an eternal abode.


The key parts for me are `temporal matters,` & `eternal abode.` The unjust steward (of the world) was only commended for being `careful for his future` – although only temporal. He was not commended for being dishonest with the master`s goods.

Thus Jesus was pointing out to the people of Israel that although they have to operate with the world`s money that they should not let it lead them to wrongdoing but think of their eternal inheritance & keep obedient to the Law of God – to love God with all your heart, soul, mind, & strength – ie. `You cannot serve God & mammon.` One leads to eternal reward the other a temporal one.

Interesting. Marilyn.










[Updated on: Sun, 05 January 2014 00:27]


Marilyn C
Re: Understanding the Parables [message #10702 is a reply to message #10701 ] Sun, 05 January 2014 05:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Hi Marilyn,

Very good what you shared here. I kept checking on this and a number of parables are tied together. I did notice Luke gave the interpretation of several parables but these he left for the reader to interpret.

He also mentions the Pharisees were lovers of money. They in turn derided Jesus over these parables. Luke 16:14
Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him.

Later Paul writes Timothy of these end times and says:
2 Timothy 3:2
For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
etc. etc..

This parable can be applied to all of us who profess to be Christians. We are stewards of what God has given us concerning the Kingdom of God. So what have we done with the Masters goods concerning His Kingdom. Very convicting if you think about it.

Ultimately we face death and then stand before the Lord in what we have done in His service while on the earth.

The Blessed thing is for us is we can see the results and then make application in this present world. While the unjust steward is worried about his present future in this life and works to make friends with the unrighteous money, we are preparing for a eternal reward.

God owns everything in this life and we know its going to be destroyed one day, so the future state and preparing for it should be our only goal.

This is what I came away with, but I find its easy to get caught up with daily cares which want to crowd out what is really important. It means I (all of us), have to make an effort for constant discipline striving for the goal. Jesus said in one place: "its those who will to do His will". My prayer is; God will continue pouring out His Grace on us and that He will help us to apply what we "hear and see".

Seeing this world crumbling around us and where its heading and what is slowly taking place has been an encouragement to press on to the higher calling.

Thanks for everybody sharing on this post. There is several other parables I hope to get to share later.

Gary






Re: Understanding the Parables [message #10705 is a reply to message #10702 ] Sun, 05 January 2014 14:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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So true Gary, You said -


Quote:

`Seeing this world crumbling around us and where its heading and what is slowly taking place has been an encouragement to press on to the higher calling.`


One of my favourite verses -

`I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord,....not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on,..... reaching forward ....I press towards the goal for the prize of the upward call (higher calling) of God in Christ Jesus.` (Phil. 3: 8 - 14)


May this be our prayer, (to know Him more) thank you Gary.

Marilyn.




Marilyn C
Re: Understanding the Parables [message #11074 is a reply to message #10705 ] Sun, 27 April 2014 05:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

Good question. Why speak to the people in parables wouldn't it be better just to tell them plainly. At least this is implied by the disciples.

Quote:

Jesus tells them:

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:


This is one of the keys to the Kingdom, being able to hear and see and then understand. Once we understand what God is saying then it becomes personal that we strive to obey the Lord as individuals. No man can make people want to obey the Lord and His Words.

It comes from a willing heart and that a person loves God and wants to Obey Him.

While reading the scriptures take note of how many times you run across the phrase: hear what the Spirit is saying, or hear my words. Go back and meditate on what God is speaking about in that section of the Bible. The Lord speaks to us through His
Word and by His Spirit.

I am constantly running across articles and various news casts that are explaining away the Bible. The world is becoming more vocal in these end times telling us what Christians should and should not be doing.

I find this strange that the people of the world would try to tell us what a good Christian is or is not.

I heard a report recently where a man said he use to be a preacher but then he realized that Christians made up a lot of the stories about Jesus. Rubbish, He never knew the Lord and he was not able to see or hear God's truth.

Deceptions are abounding as we come to a close in these end times. Men will come in sheep's clothing with crafty words.

If anything we cannot over stress the importance of knowing God and hearing His Word.

Quote:

14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:


‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;

15
For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should[a] heal them.’


The Words of Isaiah ring loud and clear and are just as valid today as they back in the first century when quoted by Jesus.

If anyone has ears let him hear what the Spirit of the Lord is saying: His Word is true and God inspired and God is not a man that He should lie.

Quote:

12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.


God is going to give us more but will we be able to hear and see it?













Re: Understanding the Parables [message #11188 is a reply to message #11074 ] Fri, 09 May 2014 02:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Looking at these parables I don't understand where they get this present day interpretation.

Quote:


Matthew 24:32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!

Luke 21:29 Then He spoke to them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. 30 When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near. 31 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.


Luke's account adds the phrase; "all the trees".

The way I've always heard this interpreted is that Israel represents the fig tree and when they became a nation this parable is used to count down the generations till the time of the end.

The problem I don't understand is Luke uses the phrase "all the trees".

If we use this logic concerning Israel represents the fig tree what about the passage where Jesus finds no fruit on the fig tree:

Quote:

Matthew 21:18 Now in the morning, as He returned to the city, He was hungry. 19 And seeing a fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it but leaves, and said to it, “Let no fruit grow on you ever again.” Immediately the fig tree withered away.


Can we say He is telling us no fruit will grow out of Israel anymore? I realize in context Jesus is teaching on faith in this passage.

Maybe that's comparing a parable to something being taught and it is not the best example. But I hope you can understand what is going on here.

Any rate back to the original parable above. I wondered where everyone came up with this interpretation. Before Israel became a nation what was the interpretation of the parable? And what about these other trees that Luke mentions?

All I'm saying is maybe there is more here then what we realize and maybe its just an accepted view among Bible theologians that has been passed down.

The Balfour declaration was signed in 1948, everyone then interprets this parable to coincide with this event.

I have been very curious of this interpretation here. Maybe no one knows and everyone accepts the present day interpretation. The interesting part is that Luke adds "all the trees" to this parable.




Re: Understanding the Parables [message #11189 is a reply to message #11188 ] Fri, 09 May 2014 02:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Hi Gary,

A really good question. I`ll tell you what I believe concerning this `terminal generation, ` as it is often said.

If you read on from Matt. 24:32 we see that the Lord says when this `fig tree` generation will be.

`Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things are fulfilled.` (v. 34)

`These things,`are from v. 5 - 31, quite a list of events yet to happen. And the `fig tree` generation will not pass away, till they see it all happen.


Now to the `trees.` The `fig tree,` represents Israel while the other `trees,` are the Gentile nations. And you so rightly pointed out to us this scripture in Luke 21.


`Look at the fig tree, & all the trees. When they are already budding, you see & know for your selves that summer is now near. So you, likewise, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.

Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things are fulfilled. (Luke 21: 29 - 32)



So history tells us that Israel became a nation in 1948 (budding)
& then the very next year & from then on many other nations became independent.(also budding) This especially happened regarding many nations under British rule. That powerful confederation became a Commonwealth of Nations.

How detailed is God`s word.




Marilyn C
Re: Understanding the Parables [message #11190 is a reply to message #11189 ] Fri, 09 May 2014 05:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Marilyn Crow wrote on Fri, 09 May 2014 02:40

Hi Gary,

A really good question. I`ll tell you what I believe concerning this `terminal generation, ` as it is often said.

If you read on from Matt. 24:32 we see that the Lord says when this `fig tree` generation will be.

`Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things are fulfilled.` (v. 34)

`These things,`are from v. 5 - 31, quite a list of events yet to happen. And the `fig tree` generation will not pass away, till they see it all happen.


Now to the `trees.` The `fig tree,` represents Israel while the other `trees,` are the Gentile nations. And you so rightly pointed out to us this scripture in Luke 21.


`Look at the fig tree, & all the trees. When they are already budding, you see & know for your selves that summer is now near. So you, likewise, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.

Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things are fulfilled. (Luke 21: 29 - 32)



So history tells us that Israel became a nation in 1948 (budding)
& then the very next year & from then on many other nations became independent.(also budding) This especially happened regarding many nations under British rule. That powerful confederation became a Commonwealth of Nations.

How detailed is God`s word.







Hi Marilyn,

Good point, But your basically telling me what I already know here. What I am trying to determine is where does everybody come up with this concept that Israel is the "fig tree"?

Is there a place in scripture that tells us this?

Did this line of thought only come about since 1948? I think there is some gaps in this line of thinking, because what did Christians believe prior to this date?

Do you see what I am trying to say here? Everyone states Israel represents the fig tree, as though it was written in stone.

Is this an assumption or does the Bible tell us this?

Just wondering on all of this.

Gary





Re: Understanding the Parables [message #11194 is a reply to message #11188 ] Fri, 09 May 2014 19:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Hi Gary,

Remember you did ask this question.


Quote:

`The problem I don't understand is Luke uses the phrase "all the trees".`


So that was why I answered that part.



Now to your next inquiry.


Quote:

`What I am trying to determine is where does everybody come up with this concept that Israel is the "fig tree"?`




Remember when James was `singing,` the other day. Now don`t look so puzzled. Over on the `coffee chat,` area he was giving us a rendition of `Whoso offereth praise glorifieth Me.` Ps. 50.
So I also am singing, `When the fig tree does not blossom,.... `Habakkuk 3: 17. Those scripture songs are so helpful.


So if we look in Habakkuk we read about the prophet who sang in the night. Despite the afflictions of Israel in the dispersion the prophet finally rejoices because the Lord would yet return to His temple.


It is good to give thanks & praise. And I so look forward to being apart of that great number who sing His praises with music & song that no one has ever heard.

Have a songful day all.












Marilyn C
Re: Understanding the Parables [message #11195 is a reply to message #11194 ] Fri, 09 May 2014 19:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Marilyn,

You would of loved our worship services at FA. We sang a lot of songs that were scripture. This always helped me remember a lot of scriptures at different times from the songs.

Do you guys in Australia sing songs out of the scriptures? We had quite a few you probably never heard of as many of the songs were given to people from the Lord, in the local body.

Gary



Re: Understanding the Parables [message #11198 is a reply to message #11195 ] Fri, 09 May 2014 20:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Hi Gary,

Yes I certainly would have enjoyed the singing & much of the preaching at FA. We also had a time of great singing in Australia in that era. We had the Scripture in Songs books & we also had local songs too. It was a special time by the Holy Spirit where He poured out a great anointing on our generation.

Now did the answer to your `fig tree,` question help?


Marilyn C
Re: Understanding the Parables [message #11199 is a reply to message #11198 ] Sat, 10 May 2014 03:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Marilyn Crow wrote on Fri, 09 May 2014 20:17

Hi Gary,

Yes I certainly would have enjoyed the singing & much of the preaching at FA. We also had a time of great singing in Australia in that era. We had the Scripture in Songs books & we also had local songs too. It was a special time by the Holy Spirit where He poured out a great anointing on our generation.

Now did the answer to your `fig tree,` question help?




Let me think about this for a while. For one thing when Luke mentions all the trees budding, I don't know if this refers to a bunch of nations that were under the British empire that suddenly became separate from their rule. If that makes sense.

But it is possible.




Re: Understanding the Parables [message #11202 is a reply to message #11199 ] Sat, 10 May 2014 17:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Hi Gary,

I was referring to the `fig tree` / Israel mentioned in Habakkuk.
Does that help you to see where people relate the two.

As to`the trees,` there are many other nations who have received their independence besides those from the British Empire.


Marilyn C
Re: Understanding the Parables [message #11204 is a reply to message #11202 ] Sat, 10 May 2014 20:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Marilyn Crow wrote on Sat, 10 May 2014 17:51

Hi Gary,

I was referring to the `fig tree` / Israel mentioned in Habakkuk.
Does that help you to see where people relate the two.

As to`the trees,` there are many other nations who have received their independence besides those from the British Empire.


Hi Marilyn,

Reading the whole chapter of Habakkuk there is no mention of Israel being the fig tree. Where are you getting this from? It's not even alluding to this train of thought.

Habakkuk is talking about himself as he is speaking to the Lord.

I don't see no relationship whatsoever here i chapter 3 that you mentioned. Please read the whole chapter in its context, no were is Israel mentioned as being the fig tree.

Gary




Re: Understanding the Parables [message #11205 is a reply to message #11204 ] Sat, 10 May 2014 22:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Hi Gary,

Yes the prophet is speaking to the Lord - `How long shall I cry, & you will not hear?` (Hab. 1: 2) It seemed to Habakkuk that -`why should any nation as wicked as the Chaldens conquer a nation like Judah which was less evil.` So he takes his complaint to God. He waits for God`s reply. (Hab.2: 2 - 20)

God admits the wickedness of the Chaldeans but declares that they will destroy themselves finally by their own evil. Habakkuk then says a sincere prayer & a hymn at the end.

So you see Gary it is about Israel & how God used the Chaldeans to chastise them. Their country was laid waste, no crops, or flocks, & the fig tree is not blossoming. (etc) The symbol of the tree is used in scripture to refer to nations & here we see that Israel is not blossoming but being over run by the enemy. Thus the `fig tree,` is symbolic of Israel.


Marilyn C
Re: Understanding the Parables [message #11206 is a reply to message #11205 ] Sun, 11 May 2014 02:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
Messages: 870
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana
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Marilyn Crow wrote on Sat, 10 May 2014 22:55

Hi Gary,

Yes the prophet is speaking to the Lord - `How long shall I cry, & you will not hear?` (Hab. 1: 2) It seemed to Habakkuk that -`why should any nation as wicked as the Chaldens conquer a nation like Judah which was less evil.` So he takes his complaint to God. He waits for God`s reply. (Hab.2: 2 - 20)

God admits the wickedness of the Chaldeans but declares that they will destroy themselves finally by their own evil. Habakkuk then says a sincere prayer & a hymn at the end.

So you see Gary it is about Israel & how God used the Chaldeans to chastise them. Their country was laid waste, no crops, or flocks, & the fig tree is not blossoming. (etc) The symbol of the tree is used in scripture to refer to nations & here we see that Israel is not blossoming but being over run by the enemy. Thus the `fig tree,` is symbolic of Israel.



Marilyn,

I read all three chapters of this book and it sounds to me like Habakkuk is comparing the righteous against those who do evil. Sure he mentions the Chaldeans as being wicked and coming against Lebanon.

This book is a single prophecy given in two parts. First there is a dialogue between God and Habakkuk concerning an announcement of judgment on the kingdom of Judah at the hands of the Chaldeans. The second section is a poetic prayer and a theophany of God who comes to judge the world and to deliver His people as in ancient times.

Isaiah foretold the Babylonian captivity of Judah for her sins over a century ago. Habakkuk now stands at the threshold of the fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy.

Habakkuk realizes that judgment is coming and there is nothing that can stop it as mentioned here, but he goes on to sing a song praising God for being His salvation:

Quote:

16
When I heard, my body trembled;
My lips quivered at the voice;
Rottenness entered my bones;
And I trembled in myself,
That I might rest in the day of trouble.
When he comes up to the people,
He will invade them with his troops.


Habakkuks song:

17
Though the fig tree may not blossom,
Nor fruit be on the vines;
Though the labor of the olive may fail,
And the fields yield no food;
Though the flock may be cut off from the fold,
And there be no herd in the stalls—

18
Yet I will rejoice in the Lord,
I will joy in the God of my salvation.


I guess if someone wanted they could imply this song is saying Israel is compared to a fig tree, but it also appears that he is just singing a song that when crops dry up and there is no food and the flocks are cut off that He will rejoice in the Lord.

Surely there is scripture that is clearer on stating Israel represents the fig tree. Let everything be established in the mouth of two or three witnesses.

Can you show any other scriptures besides Habakkuk that spell this out a little plainer and more direct? Very Happy

One more thing, Habakkuk brings out the scripture that the just shall live by his faith in God.

“Behold the proud,
His soul is not upright in him;
But the just shall live by his faith.

Paul quotes this in several passages in the New Testament. one place he says:

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

Were justified by faith in God not by works or keeping laws.

I know that's straying from what were talking about here, but when I seen that passage it reminded me that we are justified in the Lord through faith not works.

Any rate figs trees are a common tree in the middle east, let me know of any other passages here that you think speak directly about a tie to Israel. Rolling Eyes

Gary

p.s. Its always good to get to talk to someone about God's Word, when I run into people in the system they act like their not interested for some reason. Maybe its just me but it sure seems like it.











Re: Understanding the Parables [message #11213 is a reply to message #11206 ] Sun, 11 May 2014 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
Messages: 870
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana
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Marilyn,

I continued looking up other scriptures that may show distinctly that Israel is represented by the fig tree. I think the best solution is shown in
Quote:

Hosea 9:10

“I found Israel
Like grapes in the wilderness;
I saw your fathers
As the firstfruits on the fig tree in its first season.



Here is a situation that says they were the first fruits on the fig tree.

While Jeremiah 24:2 and following it says;

Quote:

24 The Lord showed me, and there were two baskets of figs set before the temple of the Lord, after Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim, king of Judah, and the princes of Judah with the craftsmen and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon. 2 One basket had very good figs, like the figs that are first ripe; and the other basket had very bad figs which could not be eaten, they were so bad. 3 Then the Lord said to me, “What do you see, Jeremiah?”

And I said, “Figs, the good figs, very good; and the bad, very bad, which cannot be eaten, they are so bad.”

4 Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 5 “Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: ‘Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge those who are carried away captive from Judah, whom I have sent out of this place for their own good, into the land of the Chaldeans. 6 For I will set My eyes on them for good, and I will bring them back to this land; I will build them and not pull them down, and I will plant them and not pluck them up. 7 Then I will give them a heart to know Me, that I am the Lord; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God, for they shall return to Me with their whole heart.


Israel is the figs from this fig tree.

Here the Lord is saying He will drive them to all the corners of the earth, because they are bad figs who would not obey the
word of the Lord, but the good figs would be scattered as well.

Quote:


8 ‘And as the bad figs which cannot be eaten, they are so bad’—surely thus says the Lord—‘so will I give up Zedekiah the king of Judah, his princes, the residue of Jerusalem who remain in this land, and those who dwell in the land of Egypt. 9 I will deliver them to trouble into all the kingdoms of the earth, for their harm, to be a reproach and a byword, a taunt and a curse, in all places where I shall drive them. 10 And I will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence among them, till they are consumed from the land that I gave to them and their fathers.’”



The scattering of the Jewish people.

Now I can see where their "the fig tree" that will be one day restored. The Word says:


Quote:


Matthew 24:32-34
“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.



Jesus is telling us what will take place in the future with the restoration of Israel through this parable and others.


Quote:

Hosea 3:4-5
For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. 5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the Lord their God and David their king. They shall fear the Lord and His goodness in the latter days.





There are a number of other prophecies that predict this, but I only am sharing a few. Part of the prophecies have yet to be fulfilled and part have.

Okay now I see what you were trying to share with all of this in mind I wrote above. I guess I had it in my mind that there was a direct scripture that spelled out plainly that Israel was like a fig tree, and assumed this is how everyone came to this conclusion.

In looking these scriptures up I found some interesting prophecies that I don't remember reading:


Judges 9:9-11
But the olive tree said to them,
‘Should I cease giving my oil,
With which they honor God and men,
And go to sway over trees?’

10
“Then the trees said to the fig tree,
‘You come and reign over us!’

11
But the fig tree said to them,
‘Should I cease my sweetness and my good fruit,
And go to sway over trees?

A parable is a story used to illustrate a point. Jesus reveals his purpose in using parables when he discusses the parable of the sower with the disciples. Mark 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them.

Then metaphorically summer is the season of the fruiting and also here the season of the return of Jesus Christ.

Jeremiah also speaks of the Chaldeans and eventually the restoration of Israel.

Quote:

Jeremiah 24:5-8
“Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: ‘Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge those who are carried away captive from Judah, whom I have sent out of this place for their own good, into the land of the Chaldeans. 6 For I will set My eyes on them for good, and I will bring them back to this land; I will build them and not pull them down, and I will plant them and not pluck them up. 7 Then I will give them a heart to know Me, that I am the Lord; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God, for they shall return to Me with their whole heart.



I think like you shared its all there, but its buried in a lot of prophecies, there's literally dozens of scriptures that speak of this restoration.


Gary








[Updated on: Sun, 11 May 2014 18:37]

Re: Understanding the Parables [message #11214 is a reply to message #11213 ] Sun, 11 May 2014 19:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
Messages: 532
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia
Senior Member
Hi Gary,

You certainly have done some good research there. I do appreciate the `Bible Study,` as it opens up more of His word which is more understanding of Him & His purposes.

I also found Joel 1: 6 & 7.

`For a nation has come up against My land, strong, & without number; His teeth are the teeth of a lion, & he has the fangs of a fierce lion.
He has laid waste My vine, and ruined MY FIG TREE.`


So clearly that is Israel, `My land, My vine, My fig tree.`


Marilyn C
Re: Understanding the Parables [message #11226 is a reply to message #11214 ] Tue, 13 May 2014 01:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
Messages: 870
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana
Senior Member
Marilyn Crow wrote on Sun, 11 May 2014 19:00

Hi Gary,

You certainly have done some good research there. I do appreciate the `Bible Study,` as it opens up more of His word which is more understanding of Him & His purposes.

I also found Joel 1: 6 & 7.

`For a nation has come up against My land, strong, & without number; His teeth are the teeth of a lion, & he has the fangs of a fierce lion.
He has laid waste My vine, and ruined MY FIG TREE.`


So clearly that is Israel, `My land, My vine, My fig tree.`


Marilyn,

While reading the different passages, I can see where the Arab nations will play a greater role in these end times.

I never paid attention before to how many times the Word mentions them (ancient nations) along with prophecies of the figs and fig trees.

There's a definite link tied in. I hope all of that made sense.

Hopefully your getting close to sharing the next part of your Uncles book.

Lord Bless,
Gary







Re: Understanding the Parables [message #11227 is a reply to message #11226 ] Tue, 13 May 2014 02:06 Go to previous message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
Messages: 532
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia
Senior Member
Hi Gary,

Misunderstanding here. I was waiting to hear from anyone if they wanted the next part of uncle`s book. I thought you were all having a break, mentally from deep thinking as it were. Sorry about that. Will get on to it.


Marilyn C
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