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Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9713] Mon, 02 September 2013 07:41 Go to next message
james  is currently offline james
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O.K! Now that I have your attention with the thread title I'll get to my question after posting this Bible verse from I Corinthians 11. verse 10.

"For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels." I Corinthians 11:10


Yesterday the pastor (Baptist) where I visited taught from 1 Corinthians 11, he was sharing the Biblical order God has established and when he came to the women wearing headcoverings he 'contexted' it to the society of the day and not a 'requirement' for today. (I'm not sure why anyone would be worried, I've never seen a women<or man either for that matter> prophesying in a Baptist church) Then when he came to verse 10 he stopped and confessed that he had absolutely no clue what was meant by the words..."because of the angels" and how it related to women, headcoverings, or anything.

After mulling over his honesty I realized that neither did I. I'm sure that during teachings in Corinthians(and yes, at one time I had 'all the tapes' and notes) HEF covered this, but I don't remember. Anyone care to share? I'm obviously not a woman and don't wear headcoverings (hadn't prophesied lately, either) but I am interested in what Paul was meaning by that statement...not trying to offend anyone with word studies or academics, just wondering what was meant by the phrase, "because of the angels".


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9714 is a reply to message #9713 ] Mon, 02 September 2013 08:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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Hmmmmm. Very good question. I have to confess I don't know the answer. In fact it has never occurred to me to ask.

Almost all of the work in a persons life ie answers to prayer, healing, protection, help, trials, chastisement etc etc is done by angels. Its his responsibility to get us safely into the eternal kingdom AND by the path God wants us to walk. That of course is not to negate our responsibility.

Sometimes when "God" speaks to us it is really the angel in our life and if you're discerning you can tell the difference.

In any case I'd be interested in the answer to James question if anyone has it.
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9715 is a reply to message #9714 ] Tue, 03 September 2013 05:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Quote:

Sometimes when "God" speaks to us it is really the angel in our life and if you're discerning you can tell the difference.


Hate to drop a bomb shell here.

But could you please give me chapter and verse where this concept comes from.

I would be very leery of other voices outside of the still small voice of the Spirit. I'm willing to change my view if I know where this is stated in the scripture?

Secondly:

Quote:

Almost all of the work in a persons life ie answers to prayer, healing, protection, help, trials, chastisement etc etc is done by angels. Its his responsibility to get us safely into the eternal kingdom AND by the path God wants us to walk. That of course is not to negate our responsibility.



We have an advocate with the Father which is of course Jesus the Son of God, I don't see where Angels are to go to God for us.

Angels don't work to answer our prayers, our prayers are by faith to God who then makes the way. Again where in the New Testament does it show this action taking place?

I am interested in finding out how you came to this conclusion through scriptures. If I can see this in the Bible I am willing to acknowledge that this teaching exists in scripture.

Gary







Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9716 is a reply to message #9715 ] Tue, 03 September 2013 20:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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I only have a few min here but you're reading too much into what I'm saying.

Angels appeared and spoke to people all through the bible. Without looking anything up the only time I can think of off hand is Phillip being told to go down to Gaza in Acts 8/26.


I don't see where Angels are to go to God for us.

Thats not what I meant. We pray to God in Jesus name always. No question about that. But the bringing the answer to pass or the healing or whatever is usually the work of angels. But we give thanks to God of course.

[Updated on: Wed, 04 September 2013 05:57]

Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9717 is a reply to message #9716 ] Tue, 03 September 2013 21:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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I'm guessing you mean something like what is expressed in Psa 91:11-12.

Blessings,
William


I want to believe!
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9719 is a reply to message #9716 ] Thu, 05 September 2013 15:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Mark L

Thanks for replying. Yeah maybe I was reading into it. I have heard of individuals now who pray to angels to go and get the answers to their prayers.

Also I attended a church for a short time that said we should pray to the Holy Spirit. I do not find this in the scripture as well but they said if the Spirit is within us He is there to answer our prayers.

I only read were Jesus is the door to the Father, He paid the price so we can go directly to the throne with our petitions of prayer.

Most cults were started by visitations from angels.

I believe they have their place in helping us but Jesus is our advocate with the Father. God is our helper and and its under the shadow of His wings that we trust.


I am wondering though if anyone knows what James was asking about, "because of the angels".

Gary















Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9720 is a reply to message #9719 ] Thu, 05 September 2013 21:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Dr. Freeman addressed this in OT Theology.

From my understanding, we are to go through the Father to request angels to do any bidding.

Cherubim, Seraphim, and Teraphim angels all have different roles in God's Kingdom. All of these entities answer to our Father God.

When humans try to command angels to do their bidding without Father's permission, and they respond, they are considered "Angels of Light," or fallen angels. I believe there is a book about this subject. Wink

Why would angels do anything without our Sovereign Father's consent and blessing?

It would be a blessing for anymore thoughts on this. It is a good topic.

BTW... I am so thankful for 12 years, 4 times a week, of good and anointed teaching. It was a gift to sit under it directly. I am thankful I had access to the Romans 12 Library so that I was able to listen to the entire teachings over and over again.

I have notes on every tape provided by our sister, Linda.

It is my desire to put all of this on OO.

In going back over previous posts, I want to express my gratitude for the acedemics that I, then and now, devour.

My fault in being tired of academics is the lack of patience for revival being manifested. Whoops, bad confession!

It is done. "It is finished."

I love OO and those who share, and question, our past with FA.

We were not perfect. We needed more of the love factor. In pointing out FA's faults, I do not mean to downgrade the precious Word we received.

In discerning and dividing the Word among ourselves, I hope it is not seen as a "critical spirit."

I believe that term can be used as a cop out to continue to remain stubborn and to not grow in love, gracefulness, and forgiveness.

For me, FA is a present experience. The Word delivered me from certain destruction many times. It continues to do so.

For those pure in heart, please agree with me and continue to pray for revival if you are led to do so.

I am so thankful for OO. God will protect OO with those who humble themselves. I pray for that for myself everyday.

Smile






[Updated on: Thu, 05 September 2013 22:24]


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9721 is a reply to message #9720 ] Fri, 06 September 2013 01:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Quote:

Dr. Freeman addressed this in OT Theology.

From my understanding, we are to go through the Father to request angels to do any bidding.



Okay dump a can of worms on us here. Very Happy

I was thinking about what William quoted in the psalms.

Quote:

I'm guessing you mean something like what is expressed in Psa 91:11-12.

Blessings,
William



What I was going to say before I saw GWB's post was, I don't know about God speaking to us through our angel. There are so many voices or thoughts that can cross ones mind, the fiery darts are obvious but an angel speaking is what I did not understand.

Now this new addition an angel can do our bidding by going through the Father is completely new here. I have been through that whole series but it has been years ago. I do remember that he said we cannot cast spirits into the abyss.

Did HEF give some reference in scripture concerning these angels?

Anyway William I noticed you did not tackle James question here, this is what made me think of this whole deal. So I went back and reread I Corinthians 11, in fact I have reread it several times. A bit puzzled that Paul would spend this whole time writing about the head covering and then close out his remarks with: It doesn't matter we don't have a custom on this anyway, (my paraphrase).

He asks several questions in that section of scripture. It is implied that a woman should have her head covered because of what, the angels. I think its a sign of submission on a woman's part because it says Man was created for God, we know the angels were created for God and are masculine, but the Bible says woman was created for man.

Man submits to God, Angels submit to God, but women submit to men because they came from man. So I see the headcovering as a sign of submission to authority because of the angels who submit to God and who understand His authority.

Just trying to figure this out here not trying to prove anything concerning submission or all that goes with that belief.

I'm thinking he mentions we have no such custom, it seems odd to go through this whole discussion and then just cast it aside because some one is contentious about it in the church. Or is Paul talking about something else in the subject matter?

I'm was going to look in a commentary but I don't take much stock in the commentaries, but I do like to see what others say on a matter.

It would be interesting to understand just what is being proclaimed here, before the thread takes off on a different path. Razz

Gary



Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9722 is a reply to message #9721 ] Fri, 06 September 2013 04:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Gary, there is so much here to consider.

Great topic. I need to go pull the OT tapes and listen again for the who knows how many times.

This is a random response, but I always pray and request the HS to tell the demons where to go. I am not sure where that originated from FA, but it always works!

Maybe our main point in all of this is to run everything through our Father.

Dr. Freeman had a radio teaching on this. I have all of the radio teachings.

I am going to have to dig I think.

I love digging into the Word like this and clarifying these things.

I am blessed for iron sharpening iron!

Smile


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9725 is a reply to message #9721 ] Sat, 07 September 2013 10:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Quote:

Anyway William I noticed you did not tackle James question here, this is what made me think of this whole deal. So I went back and reread I Corinthians 11, in fact I have reread it several times. A bit puzzled that Paul would spend this whole time writing about the head covering and then close out his remarks with: It doesn't matter we don't have a custom on this anyway, (my paraphrase).


So you noticed that I didn't get into that, heh? <grin>

Seriously though, I don't see 1 Corinthians 11 as a mandate for women to wear headcoverings.edited by james due to a glich...I paraphrased what William originally said...


The other puzzling verse in that chapter, besides the ones you and James mentioned, is:

1Cor11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

Where does "nature" teach this?

Don't take that to mean that I don't think that this is inspired scripture, I most certainly do, I just don't understand it.

Blessings,
William


I want to believe!
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9726 is a reply to message #9725 ] Sat, 07 September 2013 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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I am beginning to see that maybe we sometimes failed to put scripture into context and look at cultures when it came to 'nonsalvation' issues. It was done in zeal to please The Lord, but I certainly don't condemn a woman who isn't wearing a headcovering in an assembly/church. Don't anyone 'read into this' anything, I'm not coming against anyone's convictions, if I were attending Bro. Tom Hamilton's assembly and was a woman, I'd wear a headcovering...but I'm not...either<smile>

As to long hair, after laughing to myself at the different 'comebacks' that came to mind, I would argue that nature does indeed teach us that long hair is a shame to a man. Hey! Even some translations of scripture says it.II Samuel 18: tells us that Absalom got his 'long hair' caught in the oak tree and it allowed Joab to kill him. Not that that is that funny. Since I cut my hair after the 'hippie' days I can now throw stones...lol Seriously, I can't see the length of a man's hair as being shameful...though putting it into cultural context, in the 60's it wasn't all that accepted by all.(and maybe all the pictures we see of Jesus and the apostles with shoulder length hair was just speculation by the artists, maybe they wore it shorter than people think) The times they are a changing.

As to the angels scripture? Guess we ain't as smart as we think, eh? btw: Gary, when I pray Psalms 91 I almost always ask The Father to give His angels charge over me to keep me in all my ways. I believe that's scriptural, while it's a promise based on conditions(dwelling in the secret place of The Most High), I think a person can 'claim/pray' for what is promised on a daily basis...in faith.

[Updated on: Sat, 07 September 2013 18:14]


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9727 is a reply to message #9726 ] Sat, 07 September 2013 17:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Just a side note, I really did not mind wearing a head covering. I still would not mind.

It helped remind me of my proper place and it was a good feeling.

I don't want to get into the submission topic. It is Bible, but many things need to be discussed before I would ever do it the way I did at FA.

It allowed a lot of abuse to happen.

Now, back to angels. Smile


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9728 is a reply to message #9727 ] Sun, 08 September 2013 11:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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I can't help but think Paul is answering somebodies question, on maybe something that was going on in the Corinthian church. Maybe there was some problem that became contentious.

I wondered as well about the passage on men having long hair.

I thought about the animal kingdom. Most of the time the male species is a brilliant color then the female. I think this is so they can distract predators away from the nest or home. The males are able to lure them away to another area.

In fact the males have longer hair (fur) in many cases. I don't know what Paul is trying to say on this matter. It would go over like a lead balloon in most churches today anyway.

On the head covering, I think that it has something to do with the culture as well. Some cultures even today have the women wearing head coverings.

Maybe this is what they mean when people say many of Paul's writings are hard to understand.

Yes, back to the angels, that was a good passage in Psalm 91 never thought of it like that to use in prayer regularly. I like praying this verse as well;

Matthew 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

That whole prayer is a good prayer from the Lord.

Gary





Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9735 is a reply to message #9728 ] Tue, 10 September 2013 20:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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I appreciated this topic as it made me go away & think on my exercise bike. I was always taught as Gary said that it (head gear)had to do with a (cultural)symbol of authority.

Now the part that says, `because of the angels` was tricky until I associated it with what God was doing.

Paul tells us in Eph. 3: 10
`that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the Body of Christ to the principalities & powers in the heavenly places.` &

`for we have been a spectacle to....angels...` (1Cor. 4: 10)&

`-things which angels desire to look into.` (1 Peter 1: 12)

I believe this shows that God is teaching the angels of His plans & purposes. This would be amazing to them that the Lord of Glory would leave the heavenly realms where He is adored & obeyed to come down to this sin damaged world & be beaten, rejected etc.

Thus submission to authority today is not shown symbolically by wearing head gear but the attitude of the heart which is shown in word & deed.

Marilyn


Marilyn C
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9740 is a reply to message #9735 ] Wed, 11 September 2013 14:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Hi Marilyn,

I wondered if the sisters wore head coverings over there.

I was thinking today do you guys call each other brother Smith and sister Smith (or whatever your Christian name is) in your meetings?

It is a practice here in the states at most Spirit filled churches.

I never notice any of the kiwis or people from Oz address each other by these titles.

Lord Bless,
Gary




Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9741 is a reply to message #9740 ] Wed, 11 September 2013 17:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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No `brother Gary,` we do not call each other like that but if you would like me to do that for you I will! Chuckle, chuckle.
It sounds sooooo strange & even Brethren, no offence there.

My husband Trevor just piped up & said `tell Gary we just say `G`day mate!` I think Aussie`s like to be down to earth & real.
This `brother,` `sister,` sounds so artificial. And do they call each other that in the street when they meet? Ugh. Sorry.

Have a good day, `bro.`


Marilyn C
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9742 is a reply to message #9741 ] Thu, 12 September 2013 04:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Marilyn Crow wrote on Wed, 11 September 2013 17:22

No `brother Gary,` we do not call each other like that but if you would like me to do that for you I will! Chuckle, chuckle.
It sounds sooooo strange & even Brethren, no offence there.

My husband Trevor just piped up & said `tell Gary we just say `G`day mate!` I think Aussie`s like to be down to earth & real.
This `brother,` `sister,` sounds so artificial. And do they call each other that in the street when they meet? Ugh. Sorry.

Have a good day, `bro.`



Very good Point. Smile

I was thinking of this later and I thought where did this practice originate in the church over here. I could not think of it anywhere in the New Testament. I have always known it to take place from the time I first became a Christian and just accepted it as normal Christianity.

I like your husbands response. Now I feel a little foolish when I think of everyone over there that I have been calling brother or sister so and so, their probably thinking how strange these americans. Rolling Eyes

Now that I think about it, it does come across as artificial. Oh well we live and learn.

Lord Bless, tell Trevor you mates have a good day as well.
Gary



Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9743 is a reply to message #9742 ] Thu, 12 September 2013 05:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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`G`day mate` says Trevor. `Didn`t want to make you feel foolish, it was just what you had been taught. And what sort of carpentry do you do?`

It was me, Gary having a great laugh today & at all the strange things we did back when,so please feel free to laugh with us/me.

In the `80`s the music group I was in used to get on the back of a truck with all our equipment & go carolling around the town. When we went over the railway line it sounded like, `Sil-ent night, Ho-oooo-ly night as we went over the tracks. Then we did a quick spin through main street & on down to the pub where the locals were sitting outside around tables having a quiet drink. Then along we came all keyed up to `preach them` the gospel!!!!

All enthusiastic we`d sing, `God is better than football, God is better than booze...` tra la la etc.Like so relational!!!! Have a laugh, but we have grown since then & now have learnt to sit around the campfire, have a drink (alcoholic or not) & relate to people.

So there are many strange behaviours that are now not culturally relevant, like `brother, sister, Shouting from a truck or head gear......` We, here, love to laugh at ourselves & appreciate the journey to be real in the Lord to others.

How about you?


Marilyn C
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9744 is a reply to message #9743 ] Thu, 12 September 2013 08:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Hi Marilyn,

We never got around to following through on the Biblical example of 'greeting one another with a holy kiss', but we (assembly located in the 'deep south, Alabama,') did observe the foot washing. As to greeting fellow believers as brother or sister I usually don't today unless we go 'way back' in The Lord, but then again we're not bound to customs and traditions, even if they are part of 'church' as we know it.

I miss gathering together with fellow followers of Jesus for a day of worship, communion, love feast, and foot washing.

Guess this thread has jumped course...not the first time that's happened. Smile


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9746 is a reply to message #9743 ] Thu, 12 September 2013 08:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Marilyn,

I wondered about all the differences between our two cultures.

When I first became a Christian I was involved with a street ministry that travelled around the states. The "brothers" LOl would spend time in prayer, then we would go out and play guitars to draw a crowd, and then someone would preach hell fire and brimstone.

We mainly went to campus's where there would be a large group of college kid's but then we would go on the streets during the holidays.

At these events we would get people who we called Heckler's, they would mock and ridicule the minister in front of everyone trying to get them to laugh at us. The one man who preached most had a gift of evangelism and he would convince them through scriptures that God was real and they needed repentance.

We always had some who came forth and would cry out to God for their sins.

Alcohol in America is considered a heinous sin in 98 per cent of the churches here. We have a huge problem with people getting wiped out totally drunk. Its not just a few drinks but they don't know went to stop. Americans do everything in excess. I think a lot of Christians have changed on this view now and drink some at least the younger ones.

I knew some ministers that went to England to minister and was surprised after church when everyone ordered beer at the local pub. They did not have a problem with it just surprised because of the difference over here.

I believe from the scriptures that John the Baptist was told by God not to drink, but the Lord and his disciples drank. I could give all the scriptures that refer to this but don't feel its necessary. Everything is to be done in moderation.

I got into a heated discussion with my aunt over this and she said; Jesus turned the water into grape juice. Cool

If you get a chance check out the music section and listen to the music by Carl Seitzs, he was a good musician who went on to be with the Lord. I wanted to share a song on Andrews board concerning the end times, but did not know how to post it over there I'm still learning the computer somewhat. I just went there and can only find a few of his songs. Gwb has access to most of his music and I thought it was in that section. It's on here somewhere.

Yes we do enjoy a good laugh as well and are down to earth.

Lord Bless,
Gary
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9747 is a reply to message #9746 ] Thu, 12 September 2013 13:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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"Americans do everything in excess"

Hey now, I resemble that remark...But maybe you're right though.

Funny, speaking of booze, when I was raised in a Baptist church alcohol was definitely a no-no...but now I know quite a few Baptist who drink...generally moderately. Intellectually I understand it's not unpardonable to have a glass of wine with a meal...I just can't seem to do it myself; but I guess I would if I was thirsty enough.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9748 is a reply to message #9747 ] Thu, 12 September 2013 14:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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james wrote on Thu, 12 September 2013 13:45

"Americans do everything in excess"

Hey now, I resemble that remark...But maybe you're right though.

Funny, speaking of booze, when I was raised in a Baptist church alcohol was definitely a no-no...but now I know quite a few Baptist who drink...generally moderately. Intellectually I understand it's not unpardonable to have a glass of wine with a meal...I just can't seem to do it myself; but I guess I would if I was thirsty enough.


I think my tonsils are getting dry. Very Happy

Did you mean resent that remark or what you said above I "resemble" that remark. I had to read it again I thought you were saying you resemble being excessive. Very Happy

I think I know what you meant though.

Still reading the book its harder for me to read on the computer for some reason, with a real book you can hold in your hand I read fairly fast. I am blessed by what I have read so far.

James I did not know you were raised in the Baptist church when I was young my Grandma took me a few times to her Baptist church as I got older if anyone started to talk about religion I always told them I was a Baptist. I didn't know what that was but if Grandma was one it was good enough for me.

I have noticed a change in a lot of churches in just that last five years or so.

Gary


Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9749 is a reply to message #9748 ] Thu, 12 September 2013 17:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Firstly Gary I do want to humbly apologise for being insensitive about the `bro & sis,` naming. I though you were looking back 7 having a chuckle (we say laugh) but I see that you weren`t. So my comments would have not been very nice. Thanks for being gracious. Thinking about that `tradition,` it actually in one way sounds very caring to call each other that.

And james, the foot washing sounds interesting. Was it often? Now for a confession we over here in Oz land do the `holy kiss,` though I think it is more a big bear hug with the kiss going in the air or sometimes smacking the cheek. Mainly to dear friends though & not to everyone, though of course some are in for all the hugs they can get.

And now I know what you look like james - you resemble that remark!

It`s morning here & I suppose you are all getting ready for bed so I`ll have to wait to hear your remarks.


Marilyn C
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9750 is a reply to message #9748 ] Thu, 12 September 2013 18:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Did you mean resent that remark or what you said above I "resemble" that remark. I had to read it again I thought you were saying you resemble being excessive.

It's a line used by Groucho Marx back in the day.

James I did not know you were raised in the Baptist church when I was young my Grandma took me a few times to her Baptist church as I got older if anyone started to talk about religion I always told them I was a Baptist. I didn't know what that was but if Grandma was one it was good enough for me.

Yep, I was, and just keeping with some semblence of the thread, my grandma was Holiness/Pentacostal and she wore headcoverings, was a woman, and sang songs about angels. Laughing


Marilyn, we only had foot washings maybe 2-3 times a year when we had 'love-feast'. btw: foot washing usually isn't that big deal to the washer, but it's very humbling to the one being washed. Of course it's following the example Jesus set when He washed the disciples feet.




[Updated on: Thu, 12 September 2013 18:12]


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9752 is a reply to message #9750 ] Thu, 12 September 2013 18:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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james, Gary......

Since most of us wear shoes nowadays what do you think that would mean to us today? That is how would we show what Jesus meant in our culture today?


Marilyn C
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9753 is a reply to message #9752 ] Thu, 12 September 2013 18:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Marilyn Crow wrote on Thu, 12 September 2013 18:36

james, Gary......

Since most of us wear shoes nowadays what do you think that would mean to us today? That is how would we show what Jesus meant in our culture today?



I believe it's still similar, a foot is a foot, whether it's covered in dust or smelly from being in a shoe all day. It's symbolizing outwardly what the additude of the heart should be...a servant.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9755 is a reply to message #9753 ] Thu, 12 September 2013 19:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Thank you james. Yes the servant heart. I probably was meaning & should have said how could that be specifically shown instead of, or along side of the foot washing.

To serve seems to have an aspect of being up close & personal. And we Westerners tend to shy away from things like that.

I`ll give an example of what I`ve been led to do. I love to organise things. So, when I go & spend a few days at a friends place I organise (with her permission) her pantry & fridge & cupboards & clothes. She loves me to do that & I enjoy it each time as yes they get messy again. All her friends want me to do it for them, so it speaks as it were.

[Updated on: Thu, 12 September 2013 19:49]


Marilyn C
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9756 is a reply to message #9755 ] Thu, 12 September 2013 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Marylin,

I was raised on a creek bank and I now live one city block away from the mighty Ohio River. I live in an old Southern river town.

You can come to visit me anytime! You can organize my house and I'll feed ya reeeeeal good! Lol I will also take you to The Kentucky Derby that is fifteen minutes away from me. Lol lol


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9757 is a reply to message #9756 ] Thu, 12 September 2013 20:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Yum, yum my mouth is drooling. Cooking isn`t one of my favourite jobs but would love to try some of your Southern hospitality & Southern fried chicken etc. have to get some recipes from you perhaps when we have a `coffee break.`


Marilyn C
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9781 is a reply to message #9713 ] Fri, 20 September 2013 06:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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I have to agree here after giving this some thought, that the angels play a bigger role in our lives then what I imagined.

It's worth looking into, while trying to understand what role they do play. I was thinking at the time that many have been led astray by Angels of light.

I did have a vivid dream one time and I could hear the Angels singing in worship, it was very beautiful music as I can recall, they were singing about our Savior.

Gary


Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9782 is a reply to message #9781 ] Fri, 20 September 2013 07:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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I've been going over James and Peter the last few days and here's another reference to angels that isn't very clear to me.

"Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with The Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into." I Peter 1:12

I wasn't going to mention it, but since you have been thinking more about angels and their roles in GOD'S Kingdom and our day to day lives, I'll include this scripture. Although I can at least gander a guess as to this, maybe the angels wasn't explained the mysteries of The Kingdom and God's plan of salvation and so they too were eager to understand???

One thing I am certain of, I'm gratiful beyond words to describe that although I might not fully understand, at this time, everything concerning The Kingdom of God, His ways and plans; He has made that way of reconciliation unto Him through Jesus Christ and has revealed that unto me and given me a heart to receive it. Grace, Love, Mercy...we deserve NONE of it, yet "...for God SO loved...that He gave...His only...that whosoever..." Thank You Father, Thank You LORD Jesus


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9783 is a reply to message #9782 ] Fri, 20 September 2013 14:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Quote:

James Wrote: One thing I am certain of, I'm gratiful beyond words to describe that although I might not fully understand, at this time, everything concerning The Kingdom of God, His ways and plans; He has made that way of reconciliation unto Him through Jesus Christ and has revealed that unto me and given me a heart to receive it. Grace, Love, Mercy...we deserve NONE of it, yet "...for God SO loved...that He gave...His only...that whosoever..." Thank You Father, Thank You LORD Jesus




I just read a news report about some police officers finding two cars in the bottom of a river in Oklahoma. It turns out in one car there was some teenagers who had been missing for forty years. They were going to a football game and just vanished into thin air.

I thought about this how tragic that someone would only be given just a few years on this earth. Can you imagine 18 years and then its your time to go.

Anyway I know what your saying, if I would of died while young I would of died in my sins never knowing the Lord.

I guess we always have something to be thankful for.

Concerning the angel issue, the more of these scriptures you keep digging up is making us all look bad. Very Happy Oh well we live and learn.

Gary







Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9784 is a reply to message #9782 ] Fri, 20 September 2013 17:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Hi James,

Regarding 1 Peter 1: 12 concerning the angels, it is very interesting. The lead up verses help...

`As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful search & inquiry seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as he predicted the sufferings of Christ & the glories to follow.

It was revealed to them they were not serving themselves but you, in these things ........things into which angels long to look.`

As you said we are soooooo blessed.

My thoughts are that the angels are not omniscient, all knowing like God & they do not know everything God is doing. But God is teaching them of His wisdom in how He deals with us. The fallen angels were into the `power,` thing whereas God with all power is balanced with humility, compassion, etc. These attributes of God would not have been seen in the wondrous realms above as all was peace & harmony (till rebellion by Satan.)

`the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.` (1 Cor. 2: Cool

In the eternal ages we have much to look forward to, learning more of God & His wisdom, love & care.

Marilyn.


Marilyn C
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9785 is a reply to message #9784 ] Fri, 20 September 2013 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Hi Marilyn and Gary,

After posting this morning I was talking with a brother in The Lord about the statements about the angels' thoughts and desires mentioned in these passages. His input was that, as Marilyn brought up, the angels don't know everything, especially concerning grace (they haven't sinned and needed it...speaking of God's angels, not the fallen angels who serve Satan) and maybe they're learning of God's ultimate plan of salvation and restoration of His remnant as it unfolds. Maybe what Paul, Peter, James, and John preached and wrote was as new to them (the angels) as it was to the assemblies of the NT and us when we first heard it.

As to making 'us look bad'...I know you're kidding...but maybe by questioning that which we don't know or admitting being unable to answer every question asked we can grow...if not so much in knowledge or wisdom, maybe in humility. Smile


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9786 is a reply to message #9785 ] Fri, 20 September 2013 18:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Humility....yes james, only by God`s grace am I changed. What a process.


Marilyn C
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9787 is a reply to message #9782 ] Sat, 21 September 2013 00:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sparkles  is currently offline sparkles
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James said:
"One thing I am certain of, I'm gratiful beyond words to describe that although I might not fully understand, at this time, everything concerning The Kingdom of God, His ways and plans; He has made that way of reconciliation unto Him through Jesus Christ and has revealed that unto me and given me a heart to receive it. Grace, Love, Mercy...we deserve NONE of it, yet "...for God SO loved...that He gave...His only...that whosoever..." Thank You Father, Thank You LORD Jesus."

The last few days I have been driving from Michigan to Texas to visit some relatives I haven't ever visited, and the one thing I am utterly amazed at is how many people there are. We all know there are billions on planet earth, but as I was driving it was so humbling that out of all the people on the planet, God chose me. He blessed me with salvation, the baptism in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of tongues and let me hear teaching that would help me walk in faith and truth, saved my family and a multitude of other things. I have multiple Bibles to read, eyes to see to read, and ears to hear not only God's word taught, but am able to talk and hear others. And to think that God also gives us angels to help us and minister to us.
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9788 is a reply to message #9787 ] Sat, 21 September 2013 02:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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So true Sage.

How far is it from Michigan (lakes?) to Texas? Is that from north to south? Will pray for you on your journey. Would love to have been travelling with you & seeing all the different sites & talking of Christ`s love for us. All the best, Sage, God is the best traveller & looking forward to more of your journey in the Lord.


Marilyn C
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9789 is a reply to message #9788 ] Sat, 21 September 2013 07:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sparkles  is currently offline sparkles
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Hello Marilyn,
I live in the Grand Rapids, Michigan area. Our fall begins tomorrow, Sept. 22, when the tree's change color and it starts to get cool. It is a very beautiful time of year, and for many, including myself, it is the favorite time of year. Then, December 21 starts our winter. I love winter, with the cold and snow. There's nothing like a good snow storm on a weekend when I can sit inside and enjoy watching it, and playing with my dog
out in the snow. Michigan is a very nice state to live in. I can't think of any other state I'd like to live. We have lakes, rivers, fishing, boating, hiking, camping, bike trails, places to walk in the woods and a whole lot of other things to do. I don't think you have snow where you live, right?
The distance from where I live to Houston, Texas is about 1350 miles. I stopped in Springfield, Illinois to visit a museum about one of our greatest presidents: Abraham Lincoln. If you get a chance, do a little study on how God used him to free the slaves. Some people think he was a Christian and some don't, but no matter, he did a lot for this country.
There is so much of God' beauty all around us. It would be fun if you were here to enjoy the sights but most of all, sharing about Jesus and all He has done and is doing for us. At least God has give all of us Overcomers Online to share.
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9893 is a reply to message #9715 ] Fri, 04 October 2013 11:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Gary wrote on Tue, 03 September 2013 05:23

Quote:

Sometimes when "God" speaks to us it is really the angel in our life and if you're discerning you can tell the difference.


Hate to drop a bomb shell here.

But could you please give me chapter and verse where this concept comes from.

I would be very leery of other voices outside of the still small voice of the Spirit. I'm willing to change my view if I know where this is stated in the scripture?

Secondly:

Quote:

Almost all of the work in a persons life ie answers to prayer, healing, protection, help, trials, chastisement etc etc is done by angels. Its his responsibility to get us safely into the eternal kingdom AND by the path God wants us to walk. That of course is not to negate our responsibility.



We have an advocate with the Father which is of course Jesus the Son of God, I don't see where Angels are to go to God for us.

Angels don't work to answer our prayers, our prayers are by faith to God who then makes the way. Again where in the New Testament does it show this action taking place?

I am interested in finding out how you came to this conclusion through scriptures. If I can see this in the Bible I am willing to acknowledge that this teaching exists in scripture.

Gary



Gary,

"I love you, man!" You so remind me of a bull in a china shop...in a good way, if that's possible. Smile

I continue to mull over the various activities the angels perform in scripture. Now it seems everywhere I look there's mention of angels doing God's bidding; from OT through Revelation. Protection, delivering messages from God, carrying out God's judgments, ect. As I said earlier, I've always asked The Father to give His angels charge over me to keep me in all my ways...but hadn't really meditated on their duties outside protection.

Yesterdays "Morning By Morning" devotional by Charles Spurgeon was taken from Heb.1:13-14 where Paul says [refering to angels] "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?" In his commentary Spurgeon says, "Angels are the unseen attendants of the saints of God; they bear us up in their hands, lest we dash our foot against a stone."

While I haven't seen angels as the saints of Bible times often did, I still believe they are here around us performing whatever tasks God assigns them. I'm reading Revelation in conjunction with the discussions on Babylon and the Temple Mount in the Eschatology Section. The angels spoken of there in Revelation are carrying out very different functions, from the angel sent to John concerning the seven churches to the seven angels who poured the bowls of wrath/plagues out.

Lot of activity by angels...


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9933 is a reply to message #9893 ] Sat, 05 October 2013 10:46 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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I haven't had a lot of time of late to be here But I did want to clarify one thing.

Sometimes when "God" speaks to us it is really the angel in our life and if you're discerning you can tell the difference.

I said that way above. What I meant was that when "the Lord" speaks to us sometimes it is the Holy Spirit and sometimes it is the angel who has charge over our life. People in the bible recognized that. Jacob at the end of his life spoke of the angel who accompanied him. Often the prophets received visons given by and accompanied by angels

Sometimes I can tell the difference. To me that is just one the little issues that make having a spiritual life enjoyable.
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