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Creation Vs Evolution [message #8078] Fri, 05 August 2011 22:03 Go to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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Creation Vs Evolution

Christianity Today did an article in one of their recent issues on the subject. I didn’t realize how many evangelical born again Christian leaders believe in theistic evolution. I just about fell off my chair when I found out men I have a great deal of respect for like JI Packer and Phillip Yancy don’t believe the traditional view. Anyway I want to make a narrow point here. The narrow being that to believe for whatever reason Gen 1-3 is allegory of some type you really have to throw out the whole bible.

It is called “ The search for the historical Adam.
The center of the evolution debate has shifted from asking whether we came from earlier animals to whether we could have come from one man and one women.

From the article:

…At issue: the traditional tenet that “God directly created Adam and Eve the historical parents of the entire human race”

…might Genesis be presenting” a poetic and powerful allegory about God endowing humanity with a spiritual and moral nature.

… The bible itself invites a symbolic reading using cosmic battle imagery and by drawing parallels between Adam and Israel

…affirmed the “inerrancy of the bible but not of interpretations”

… I have full confidence in scripture but it does not represent what science represents
(Boy they got that one right Rolling Eyes )

… the evidence “seems to discredit” the Fall from original righteousness as a historical event.

… and a whole lot more.

Jesus Matt 19/4f “at the beginning”
Paul 1 Tim 2/13-14 “Adam was first formed”
Psalm 104/ 2 “ who stretches out the heavens like a garment” a lot more in that Psalm too. The Psalms are full of it. I think David saw creation (in a vision) because he kept talking about it.
Job 38 God himself speaks to the issue of how he made things. (Some interesting info given in vs 31 there- or is that allegory?)

And on and on. A related issue would be Noahs flood. Its everywhere in the bible. By everyone.

So my point is that to deny Gen 1-3 is really to deny the whole bible because everyone believed it the way it is written. You really have to throw out the entire supernatural element of the bible and Christianity as well.

Anyone who wants to carry on the discussion further please feel free to hijack the thread.


Re: Creation Vs Evolution [message #8092 is a reply to message #8078 ] Tue, 09 August 2011 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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In light of the vigorous debate here I thought I had better reply to my own post.
Last Oct 4000 global evangelical leaders gathered in Capetown SA
Pew research did a survey.

Evolution has occurred guided by God?

Global South leaders - 34% yes
Global North leaders _ 50% yes
Re: Creation Vs Evolution [message #8093 is a reply to message #8092 ] Tue, 09 August 2011 13:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Hardbones wrote on Tue, 09 August 2011 12:52

In light of the vigorous debate here I thought I had better reply to my own post.


Laughing Been there and done that... Smile

I would jump in, but I can't think of anything to debate...God said it; I believe it.

and playing "what if " doesn't get one very far.(what if John 10:16 means that God created another universe and He has 'sheep' there and in the end we're all going to live together happily ever after?) I mean where does one stop? We are told to go into all the earth proclaiming the gospel...So maybe 'they' (aliens) were told to go to the earth and proclaim something...maybe that's why they keep showing up, they're trying to witness to us. Rolling Eyes


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Creation Vs Evolution [message #8094 is a reply to message #8093 ] Tue, 09 August 2011 15:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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"In light of the vigorous debate here I thought I had better reply to my own post."


Laughing Laughing Shocked Laughing Laughing


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Creation Vs Evolution [message #8095 is a reply to message #8094 ] Tue, 09 August 2011 16:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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I didn't realize the "christian" belief in evolution was so widespread among leaders. I have long believed the great falling away hasn't occurred yet. I think when it happens it will be headline news. Now I realize there is one occurring but I don't think it is the one spoken of by Paul. I can see it coming though when 50% of evangelical leaders believe God created by evolution.
Re: Creation Vs Evolution [message #8096 is a reply to message #8095 ] Tue, 09 August 2011 20:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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In watching "Into the Universe With Hawking," I find it interesting that he stated, "I not only wanted to know how the universe began, but why." Rolling Eyes

I love science. I also love it when God baffles man! I think that is where it gets hysterical. lol

There comes a point when you just have to jump off of the cliff and believe. His creation is just too big! Just imagine, we will be learning neat stuff for eternity!

His Word is so complex that a child can understand it. That may sound strange, but it is true. That is where the jumping off of the cliff, like sheep, comes in. It is also so simple, that humans go in circles trying to figure out The Ancient of Days.

My advice....KISS...Keep it simple stupid. Whoops bad confession, but you know what I am getting at. Smile


Our God is mighty to behold!......

[Updated on: Tue, 09 August 2011 20:52]


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Creation Vs Evolution [message #8097 is a reply to message #8096 ] Tue, 09 August 2011 21:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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I ran across this by accident tonight. I thought it was quite good.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i4/et.asp

I'm updating this to say I put it in the wrong thread.

[Updated on: Thu, 11 August 2011 22:16]

Re: Creation Vs Evolution [message #8098 is a reply to message #8097 ] Tue, 09 August 2011 21:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Very good info, Hardbones, and interesting.

In the article on the link you shared it said, "Meanwhile, belief in extraterrestrial intelligences continues to grow with an almost religious Shocked fervor. Laughing

Ok, just finished watching all of the Hawkings presentations and explanations. He stated, “In the Big Bang, hydrogen, carbon, iron, 02, and gravity were created, etc., blah, blah, blah due to "luck!" "Stars, simply by accident, are created." Can you believe that a Cambridge scientist, who held the same job as Isaac Newton, said the word luck and accident when referring to a scientific explanation? That is NOT science. It becomes philosophy due to no actual proof. In other words, just like my Microbiology book, it deems itself presumptuous and rediculous.

Hydrogen, and all of the other elements used to create this "Big Bang" had to have a starting point. Gravity is a force. If the “Big Bang” was “lucky” which was stated on the show, from where did these two things originate? It gets to the point of saying, which was first, the chicken or the egg?

When he said, "It was magical" he absolutely lost me and I gagged. Most of you know why I would have that reaction.

I mean, seriously, using the term magical to explain a scientific theory of the beginning of the universe is seen as solid evidence by the blind sheep of this earth? Sad.

It is not science, but philosophical to me. This was also stated, "The Big Bang began as being "inside" of the cosmos." OK...am I missing something here or do I see that when you have an inside, an outside must exist, or an opposite?

Going back to my Microbiology class experience, which is already posted, this statement is as bad as the rest. My Microbiology book used twelve words related to uncertainty in two paragraphs when explaining the “Big Bang” or endosymbiosis.

I have to laugh. It is interesting and entertaining. I guess I am one of the stupid ones who just simply believe. In any case, I really don’t think I look as stupid as these ridiculous explanations that man is desperately trying to create, no pun intended.

I confess that I have the stupidity of a sheep and follow Him wherever He leads me and whatever He explains to me in His Word.

[Updated on: Wed, 10 August 2011 03:39]


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Creation Vs Evolution [message #8105 is a reply to message #8098 ] Thu, 11 August 2011 22:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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Ok guys the handwriting is on the wall. There was no Adam and Eve. More importantly we now know there wasn't any Adam and Steve either.

Smile

Article here on the subject by NPR of all people.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/are-some-evangelicals-beginn ing-to-question-the-existence-of-adam-and-eve/
Re: Creation Vs Evolution [message #8131 is a reply to message #8105 ] Sat, 20 August 2011 15:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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Christianity Today just posted the whole magazine issue including the article I quoted from. If you're interested you can read it. Its an odd site. You move the thingy at the bottom to turn pages. Hopefully the link will work.

http://christianitytoday.imirus.com/Mpowered/book/vctrc11/i3 /p4
Re: Creation Vs Evolution [message #8238 is a reply to message #8131 ] Sat, 10 September 2011 22:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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I posted this on Children of FA on FB. I thought it might add to this thread as well.

"Tom, ultimately what we believe is by faith. I know because I have faith in Jesus. Others have faith in scientific theories provided by a man who he himself later stated that he had doubts about his own theories." By Norm Chance on another thread on C of FA.

A funny thing happened to those who kept the Laws in the O.T. because they chose to not question God's ways or His Word. Due to people not understanding science, germs, and sanitation principles, they were kept from many diseases that the rest of the world had to experience by keeping the laws that were set in place by God. Jews were persecuted and blamed for the plagues in the Middle Ages because the Jews were not dying like the rest of the world. They followed the O.T. laws of isolation, staying away from unclean animals (rats), as well as other basics that God had in place to protect His people. Many of those laws are proven more valid, by science, all of the time.

God's people are deemed as being ignorant, more and more, these days because they walk by what they don't understand, for now, or by what they can't explain. I am one of those nitwit people who simply believe God's Word without question. It has taken me years to be stupid enough to do that. I am like everyone else and struggle at times, but basically, I have learned that God has a reason for everything that is said and done in the Bible. I truely don't care how God pulls things off and how things work. I have always been the artsy kind and maybe that is why. Like I said on another thread, that stand can exhaust even the average curious person, let alone the Mensa bunch.

Still, with all respect to those who remain on the scientific side, I can't help but wonder how stupid people are going to feel in eternity when they look back and realize how anserine, duncical, and gormless they were in "reality" for not keeping it simple and simply believing Him. Sheep are considered the most stupid animal on earth. They will actually follow something off of a cliff to their death. Many gifted and intelligent people will see that they were not like God's sheep who follow Him where ever He goes in mind and deed.

"Now, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1. I think this verse makes fools of men. But, then again, the Bible also says that He only uses the foolish of this world. I, for one, am glad that I am just in this world and not a part of it, and that includes man's understanding of God's ways, His powers, and His wisdom.......baaaaaa.


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Creation Vs Evolution [message #8240 is a reply to message #8095 ] Sun, 11 September 2011 22:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DeWayne  is currently offline DeWayne
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Hardbones wrote on Tue, 09 August 2011 16:41

I didn't realize the "christian" belief in evolution was so widespread among leaders. I have long believed the great falling away hasn't occurred yet. I think when it happens it will be headline news. Now I realize there is one occurring but I don't think it is the one spoken of by Paul. I can see it coming though when 50% of evangelical leaders believe God created by evolution.

If you would visit some of the 'Christian' forums on the internet I think you would be shocked at how many reject the literal creation account. Satan has been busy. I.E. christianforums.com.
Re: Creation Vs Evolution [message #8241 is a reply to message #8240 ] Mon, 12 September 2011 10:13 Go to previous message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Thanks DeWayne. Appreciate the input.

It never ceases to amaze me how much more the church of today is getting more and more off in their stands for the Word

I see as fulfillment of prophecy concerning Rev 2-3 when it speaks of the different kind of end-time churches.

It only encourages me. It means His return is that much closer! Very Happy


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
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