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The Harlot Church System, "Come Out of Her, My People" [message #8024] Thu, 07 July 2011 20:21 Go to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Here is another book that goes well with the one by Frank Viola on 'Pagan Christianity'. This one is free to read online( it took about 3 hrs. to read completely through.) I think it'll make you want to go over it more than once. It's by Charles E. Newbold Jr. and titled,

The Harlot Church System, "Come Out of Her, My People."


http://www.charlesnewbold.com/books/TheHarlotChurchSystem.pd f

Just clink on each chapter (in red) to read...updated 8/30/13 to update link to the free book...james


Warning: If you're happy with what is known as 'church' today, you probably won't like this book, it challenges and demands that a person examines their heart...you'll never view 'church' the same way again.

Praise You Jesus, burn out all the dross, LORD...separate us from any and everything that exalts itself against Your LORDSHIP...Hallelujah!

[Updated on: Fri, 30 August 2013 07:10]


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8025 is a reply to message #8024 ] Thu, 07 July 2011 21:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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A good read so far... thanks for the link!


I want to believe!
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8026 is a reply to message #8025 ] Thu, 07 July 2011 23:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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"The practice of witchcraft is the principal cause of trouble in the world. It is the principle cause of trouble in the home between husbands and wives, parents and children, brothers and sisters who try to manipulate one another. It is the cause of strife between friends and nations. It is the major source of conflict in churches."



It is an awesome read! I agree moulder. Personally, I know that I need to read it several times to totally understand and process all of it.

Also, I have decided to read Deeper Life In The Spirit by Dr. Freeman after each chapter of this book!

Thanks for the link, Bro. James. I truely hope that others are taking advantage of all of this info. It is life changing.

[Updated on: Thu, 07 July 2011 23:17]


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8028 is a reply to message #8024 ] Fri, 08 July 2011 11:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grandom  is currently offline grandom
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This indeed is a good read James.

Ties in very nicely with the pagan Christianity book.

Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8053 is a reply to message #8028 ] Sat, 23 July 2011 10:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Not that I needed any confirmation to the truths I had already witnessed over the years concerning the church system, but the books, 'The Harlot Church System' as well as 'Pagan Christianity' put into words and went into much more depth in revealing the truth about the religious system of man.

Here is a perfect example of man's religion and the results of relying on man's wisdom...


http://www.charismamag.com/index.php/news/31614


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8054 is a reply to message #8053 ] Sat, 23 July 2011 13:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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I'm writing this for (first, myself) anyone who hasn't read the book and may think that it's just a church bashing book where someone seeks to justify why they don't 'go to church'. While there is quite a bit about the harlot church system, there is also a major challenge to each reader to examine themselves and 'see if there be in us an evil heart...'(Hebrews 3:12-15)


"The idolatry revealed in this book is NOT about "them" but about each of us." ~Charles E. Newbold Jr.

-The Harlot of Self-

"The flesh loves Self. Self with the capital "S" is the term I use throughout this book to refer to that the self-centered, self-indulging, self-absorbed, self-willed, self-serving nature of fallen flesh. The flesh nature turns in on itself. It is selfish, prideful, arrogant, haughty, vain, narcissistic, manipulative, controlling, dominating, impatient, stubborn, insensitive, resentful, angry, unteachable, rebellious, fearful, anxious, complaining, disagreeavle, judgmental, negative, critical, cynical, indifferent, greedy, lustful, sensual, envious, covetous, jealous, fault-finding, dishonest, and deceitful. It is deceived and suffers from delusions of grandeur. It always asks, "What's in it for me?"


I find from examining my own life the above to be true, I don't think there is one discriptive term used to reveal sinful, fleshly additudes that I haven't seen in myself...and the very sad thing is, more than one has manifested itself since I became a believer.

Like William said in another post, the church would be perfect if it wasn't for us, the people.

The LORD has been longsuffering and merciful, many times extending mercy before we even knew to ask for it, certainly without us (me) deserving it. May He give us hearts to repent of anything standing in the way of total commitment to the life He has called us to, a life where 'self' no longer desires to usurp His throne... and where The Cross removes all idols from our lives, beginning with our fleshly 'self'.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8132 is a reply to message #8054 ] Sun, 21 August 2011 06:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Who Shall Ascend?


The final chapter of Charles Newbold Jr.'s book is titled "Who Shall Ascend". It is taken from Psalms 24:3&4. He speaks of seeking The Lord as to the meaning of this passage in relationship to 'the harlot church', Babylon, Egypt, and those who have came out of 'her'. The crux of the matter is this, those who desire to follow after God and Him alone must have clean hands and pure hearts, who have laid aside their vanities and fleshly desires and pleasures. The choice is ours, if we want God and God alone our actions of obedience will reflect that and nothing will be able to stop the pure in heart from seeing God.(Matt.5:8)

It's not just 'coming out of her and being separate', it's not about 'skipping church on Sunday' and having justification for doing so. It's where does one go from here, after having their eyes opened to truth? If a person wants to return to that which they've been set free from, no one is going to stop them(and how many do we each know from the past who have done just that, returned to that which they confessed deliverance from?)...The choice is ours, but to return to Egypt/Babylon/The Harlot Church System carries a price, self deception and 'everyone else does it' excuses won't stand up before God on the day of judgment. "Depart from me, I never knew you"...will ring in their ears for all eternity.

This is my wording and summation of what I got from it, I'm not trying to put words in his mouth or quote everything he wrote. What I have taken from the book is comformation to that which I've observed and came to believe over the years(plus some things I'd never seen concerning the institutional system of man). Now I desire to be part of those mentioned in verse 6 of Ps.24...

"This is the generation of them that seek Him..."

And to be able to truly 'seek Him' we must be free of Egypt, Babylon, and the false religious system of man, we must have clean hands and pure hearts. Not as outwardly cleaned and shined cups and platters and appearing as whited sepulchres (Matt.23:25-27), God hates a Pharisaical additude and hypocrisy.

My point? Let us be of those who Ascend unto Him, and not those to whom refuse to listen due to traditions of man, desire for fellowship, the pull of fleshy desires, and deception. It is a choice..... Life or death.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8134 is a reply to message #8132 ] Sun, 21 August 2011 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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"Depart from me, I never knew you"...will ring in their ears for all eternity.


In order to know Him, you must spend time with Him.

Example: How do you get to know a friend? You communicate back and forth. You interact. You listen and respond. You share with one another. You get to "know" them.

Prayer is something that Satan hates most. One time I was fasting for one day and I had two people make negative comments to try to discourage me. BTW, they figured out for themselves that I was fasting. I was not blowing my horn or making a big deal of it.

After the fast, the situation I was praying about broke. It was as if He dropped a bomb on the entire matter. It was so awesome to watch Him move and honor prayer. Or in other words, Jesus and I communicated in this one certain fashion of prayer and He responded to me so we could know each other better. IMO

Praying on your knees, etc. is good, but I have to pray in my car, sometimes, in order to stay in contact with Him. He will meet you where you are at.

To those who think you have to clean up before you can go to Him, forget it. Cleaning you up is the Holy Spirit's job. However, you have to listen and respond, or obey if you will and He will take you deeper into your walk as you obey His voice.

Before I do anything in the spirit, prayer, deliverance, etc., I always confess sin and ask for forgiveness. Start with a clean slate.

Also, I heard something very pertinent about this subject. It was stated, "Prayer is an inbreathing of the Holy Spirit."

That statement helped me, personally, to enjoy prayer more and to understand its purpose. It helps when my flesh gets in the way.

I know of some who serve Satan and stay up all night in prayer for him! Some get up in the early hours and pray!

No condemnation, but how much more should we! Don't you think that these pagans, who live in the flesh as their religion, pray and expect an answer? You better believe it! That is the only reason they do it. You can be sure Satan accommadates them.

I know that we don't use prayer as a heavenly Santa Claus. But,I believe He will send a quick answer, at times, to encourage those who need it.

Most of the time for me, I see the answer much later. Also, the way He is using me to stand in the gap, I might not ever see the manifestation of things I am believing for Him to accomplish through my prayers. But, I know in my heart they are done and I truely rejoice and smile sometimes wondering how He is going to "pull it off."

The more rope you give Him, the more He can use you in prayer and in your walk. I call it, "Flying by the seat of your pants." I pray and I don't know how, when, or where it will happen. I just simply believe and let Him do it His way. Boy, it can be fun!

There have been times I had to live moment to moment to stay alive. I had to listen, respond, listen, respond, moment by moment. Sometimes, I still have to walk that way depending on the situation.

Simply put, God is just too big to pin down. He is too big to try and understand the way He moves. When I keep my head out of it, I think it more fun! Most of the time, I can look back, and see how He has answered my prayers and I get so tickled about it.

"Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart." Psalm 37:4. In my early walk, I used this verse for prayer and He met me everytime.

Prayer can be very exciting if you allow Him to use you to move on His behalf!

Years ago, when I was first saved, I was on my knees asking Him if I should move to FA from Southern Indiana. I said, "I want to know now....I am so unsettled about it." The phone rang and it was a sister from FA. She told me that the Lord told her to call and confirm my move to FA. Boy, would the critics use that one!

Another time, when first saved, I had just moved into an apartment. I did not have an alarm clock and I had to get up for an interview. I asked Him to wake me up. That morning, I was awakened by a soft voice saying my name. I got up and did not know that this was an unusual answer to prayer for most Christians. He met me where I was at.

Another time, He woke me up 2:00 a.m. in the morning. I had just had a dream. I saw a 16 year old girl in a car crash. She was looking through a port hole and saw heaven. She wanted in but could not get in. I got out of bed and prayed in tongues until I knew I was done.

That morning, I was awakened by my clock radio, when people had them! lol The news was reporting about a 16 year old girl who had been killed in a car crash at 2:00 a.m. in the morning in our city. The radio said the exact name He had given to me early that morning. I know she went to heaven due to the intercession, all glory to Him of course. I could not go to work that day because I was so shaken and in awe. I was new to the walk and I was learning how real He was and still is.

He has stopped me at a green light for no reason. A semi ran the red light and I would have been killed. He told me, while in the car with two babies, to stop on a long rock road between cornfields for no reason. I eased up and saw a roadblock knocked down in front of a hugh gap in the road. We would have been killed or hurt very badly. He told me in the car again, to go way around a child on a bike. I did and while going around him for no reason, he fell off of the bike. I would have hit him. The stories can go on and on about prayer, communion, listening, and responding to Him. I enjoy knowing Him more and more.

Walking in the Spirit is just that. Spiritual things happen when you pray or walk with Him. It astounds me that people do not believe spiritual testimonies concerning His faithfulness. It astounds me that people need "proof" that God exists. If they would take the time to "know" Him, He would and will prove Himself to you. He does not have to, but I believe, due to His grace and mercy, He will.

These doubting Thomas's will be saved as by fire, but I don't think He can use them significantly in spiritual warfare. How can He when they don't "get it?" God is spirit and that is how He relates to us. I hope that made sense. In other words, who enjoys walking a dry walk and not interacting with Him? Sad. Who wants to be in a Harlot Church system that won't teach you these things? Again, sad.


"If you be still and know that I am God, I will teach you who I am and what I am saying on the inside of you." Psalm 46:10 You have to "still" yourself, or pray.

I had no idea, after reading the previous post, that I would get off on a tangent about prayer. But, I believe that I am listening and responding to the Holy Spirit and simply doing what He tells me to do. The rest is up to Him. Smile

BTW....I learned how to walk with Jesus in this fashion in a Northern Indiana cornfield. I am not lifting up HEF. Dr. Freeman would be the first to give all the glory to Him. IMO










[Updated on: Sun, 21 August 2011 13:14]


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8135 is a reply to message #8134 ] Sun, 21 August 2011 13:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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"I had no idea, after reading the previous post, that I would get off on a tangent about prayer. But I believe that I am listening and responding to The Holy Spirit and simply doing what He tells me to do."

I was reading along and being blessed by the post, but I must admit that it did cross my thoughts as to what it had to do with the thread about The Harlot Church System and my post. Smile Then I saw the reference to clean hands and pure hearts, and at first thought you were opposing what I had written about it(when you mentioned, "to those that think you have to clean up before you can go to Him"... although what I wrote was a quote from Ps.24:4) then I realized that you meant when we first come to Christ as we are...agreed, of course!

I was speaking in context of those in the system who have been taught that saying the 'sinner's prayer' and confessing to be a'believer', joining the church and attending on the pagan holidays, that think they have 'tickets on the first load going up'...Not what God's Holy Word says...He said, "Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD?"..."He that hath clean hands and a pure heart." We know a born again disciple of Jesus Christ doesn't start the journey this way, but the warning, I believe, is this, when the journey ends those who will ascend into His Holy presence WILL have clean hands and pure hearts. Those are HIS qualifications, and yes, He will have to be the One who cleans His children up because we know that in and of ourselves, we can do nothing and ALL our righteousness is as filthy rags before Him.

I am certain if The Holy Spirit directed you to write that about prayer, then He will indeed give understanding, wisdom, conviction, and peace to everyone reading it... "The rest is up to Him" Smile

Thanks for allowing Him to use you...what could be better?

I enjoyed the reference to "flying by the seat of your pants" (I'm sure you were speaking of guys here....we know a sister would only be 'flying by the seat of her dress or skirt'. Laughing I just HAD to do that <grin>


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8136 is a reply to message #8135 ] Sun, 21 August 2011 14:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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"I enjoyed the reference to "flying by the seat of your pants" (I'm sure you were speaking of guys here....we know a sister would only be 'flying by the seat of her dress or skirt'. I just HAD to do that <grin>"


Laughing Laughing Shocked Laughing Laughing

I will not use a box mix today to make up for it! Shocked Laughing


You know that I am always open to help with posting, etc. Rolling Eyes Laughing

I considered making it a new topic, but it seemed to fit. Let me know if you think I need to move it. Confused Laughing

BTW, your entire post was a blessing. Smile

[Updated on: Sun, 21 August 2011 14:28]


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8210 is a reply to message #8136 ] Thu, 08 September 2011 07:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grandom  is currently offline grandom
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This certainly comes as no surprise.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/wizard-of-oz-themed-sermon -series-to-be-preached-at-florida-megachurch-55245/

icon10.gif  Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8256 is a reply to message #8210 ] Thu, 15 September 2011 05:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Conclusions and Opinions...


So after a couple of months to read and ponder what Charles Newbold Jr. has written in this book, The Harlot Church System, has anyone finished reading it and if so does anyone care to share their thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Indifferent? Lifechanging? Heretic?

I've read it numerous times and believe it should be required reading in all seminaries, and by all professing Christians...

That too will happen when pigs fly.

[Updated on: Thu, 15 September 2011 12:18]


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8294 is a reply to message #8256 ] Fri, 23 September 2011 09:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Hold on, hold on now! Don't everyone answer all at once...

So can I conclude from the lack of responses that "Lifechanging" wouldn't be included in the reactions?

Surely no one is "Indifferent"?

Maybe Newbold's viewed as a "Heretic"?


"Look, look, it's a bird, it's a plane, no! it's a pig."


Smile , Jesus loves you! Smile


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8599 is a reply to message #8294 ] Sun, 13 November 2011 20:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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I sure would like to know what others thought of this book, did anyone finish reading it? It doesn't take long to read and even if you don't agree with what Charles Newbold presents I would be very interested in what or why you didn't agree.

It seems like if we can spend a couple of months trying to determine the origins of medical science and medicines and whether or not what HEF taught on it was in error or not, at least we could delve into the influence institutional religion has had on us and if any of that influence remains today.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8600 is a reply to message #8599 ] Mon, 14 November 2011 10:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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I think the book covers the subject pretty well.

The only problem I see is that it focuses so much on the problem it actually creates problems.

I mean, how many times do we need to be told that the church is not the building? That has been said so many times and by so many people that I doubt that you could find any Christian in any denomination that hasn't heard it.

But, because we are so focused on the 'evils' of Church structure (be it a building or its by-laws) we forget the very point we are supposed to be making -- Born again believers ARE THE CHURCH.

A believer who finds himself surrounded by beautiful stain glass windows and a pipe organ doesn't become an unbeliever, does he?

We preach against the evils of formalism so much we've actually given the idols more power than they ever had before. Imagine that, Christians so afraid of these empty idols that we refuse to darken the door of a 'building' where born again Christians may be meeting. Our message betrays us. If these 'buildings' and 'altars' are as pointless as we say they are, how is it we almost feel the need to cross ourselves (just making a point here) as we pass by on the other side of the road?

If God calls you to cut down their christmas tree -- go for it! I'll lend you my chain saw, but before you do it might be a good idea to show the people that you aren't afraid of it; it has no relevance for the Believer. Its presence down there beside the 'altar' is not violating the 'sacredness' of the place, because -- if you are one of the last persons on earth that hasn't heard it -- THE BUILDING IS NOT THE CHURCH.

The "altar" is not "sacred", the "temple" isn't "polluted" WHY? Because in Christianity WE ARE THE ALTAR, WE ARE THE TEMPLE... we aren't living in Old Testament times where you had an actual altar and temple that could be polluted.

A side benefit that stems from ignoring the christmas tree idol on your left and the easter decorations on the right is the obvious statement you are making as to their powerlessness in true Christian worship. (Remember, we must ever be diligent to spread the word that WE ARE THE CHURCH... these surroundings have NOTHING to do with the true Church.)

Anyway, that's what I think. It is one thing to teach people the truth about some of these things that we've known for years, it's another thing to allow these trivialities to stand in the way of us teaching these truths to our brethren -- the Church -- because we are too superstitious to 'darken the doors' of their institutions.

Blessings,
William

[Updated on: Mon, 14 November 2011 18:31]


I want to believe!
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8601 is a reply to message #8600 ] Mon, 14 November 2011 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Thanks for commenting William.

I can't speaking for Charles Newbold but I'm thinking if he had a specific group in mind while writing this book, we probably wouldn't have been front and center. But I do think there's meat there to be eaten, for me it was more about the looking at my-'self', as I had already heard and received the general message of the book (come out of her).

So the impact it has on a person, I presume, would be dictated by just how close to home it hits<grin>. Much of the message about 'self' conked me right over the head, as The Holy Spirit has been dealing with me along this line lately. Back in July I posted a bit on 'SELF' and quoted something from his book; "The idolatry revealed in this book is NOT about 'them' but each of us." ~Charles E.Newbold Jr.

I just remembered a statement you made a month or so ago on another thread about 'Devine healing, every time, no exceptions'...you said to the effect, "It's funny how differently people perceive things"...it is. You felt as if that discussion was very enlightening and fruitful; others thought something altogether different. Same goes here I suppose, I was really capitavited and read it over and over as The Lord used it to speak to me; your perception that it causes problems didn't occur to me. I would say this about 'problems', unless and until the problems are exposed, many people aren't aware of their existence. And I don't speak of pagan holidays as the focus(I don't even recall mentioning them, though I know Charles did due to the fact that the vast majority of believers in the harlot system are ignorant concerning their origins.)

So the things that are elementary to us (church is the people, not a building, xmas tree powerless,ect.) he had to cover because these truths aren't elementary to those who are being held captive by the traditions and institutions of man. And I know that in times past 'we/i/you?' have used compilance as a guide in making judgments that possibly placed people who hadn't made the commitment yet under bondage with peer presure. Yet I don't believe that which we have been delivered and set free from would or should be considered as "trivialities". Maybe that was a poor choice of words, I think I get your meaning...'majoring on minors'??? But when we're given light we're to obey, regardless of how trivial or elementary it may seem to us, amen?

Again thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts...

Would you hit the teeth of your chain saw-blades with a rat-tailed file to put an edge on them and top it off with gas?...just in case. Smile


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8602 is a reply to message #8601 ] Mon, 14 November 2011 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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james wrote on Mon, 14 November 2011 12:40

Thanks for commenting William.

I can't speaking for Charles Newbold but I'm thinking if he had a specific group in mind while writing this book, we probably wouldn't have been front and center. But I do think there's meat there to be eaten, for me it was more about the looking at my-'self', as I had already heard and received the general message of the book (come out of her).

So the impact it has on a person, I presume, would be dictated by just how close to home it hits<grin>. Much of the message about 'self' conked me right over the head, as The Holy Spirit has been dealing with me along this line lately. Back in July I posted a bit on 'SELF' and quoted something from his book; "The idolatry revealed in this book is NOT about 'them' but each of us." ~Charles E.Newbold Jr.



Don't get me wrong, I think that the more the message is proclaimed the better... my point is that you/me and I daresay everyone else here got that message back in the late 70's. Unless there is something that was wrong with that message we heard then all it does is re-enforce things we already believe. Our discussion might go something like this:

You: (you, in general) Did you hear that message about the harlot church system?

Me: Why, yes... praise God. It's a blessing when others are getting to hear the same message we heard 30 years ago.

You: Amen!

Me: (Trying to think of something else to add...) It's a shame that people had to wait for Pagan Christianity and other books to come out in order to begin to see some of the ways that people have been deceived. (Implied point: We should have been the bearers of this wonderful news!)

You: True.

Me: Amen.

What more can be said? --You actually showed me that there was more to be said concerning the deeper-life and how it opened your eyes (or gave you a different perspective). I missed that part of the book apparently and need to go back and give it another chance... you said:

Quote:


I just remembered a statement you made a month or so ago on another thread about 'Devine healing, every time, no exceptions'...you said to the effect, "It's funny how differently people perceive things"...it is. You felt as if that discussion was very enlightening and fruitful; others thought something altogether different. Same goes here I suppose, I was really capitavited and read it over and over as The Lord used it to speak to me; your perception that it causes problems didn't occur to me. I would say this about 'problems', unless and until the problems are exposed, many people aren't aware of their existence. And I don't speak of pagan holidays as the focus(I don't even recall mentioning them, though I know Charles did due to the fact that the vast majority of believers in the harlot system are ignorant concerning their origins.)

So the things that are elementary to us (church is the people, not a building, xmas tree powerless,ect.) he had to cover because these truths aren't elementary to those who are being held captive by the traditions and institutions of man.


The discussion dealing with whether or not medical science was occult or not is different from this thread because it dealt with an issue we all believed and accepted. We re-examined it for the expressed purpose of validating the genuineness of our premise. I don't think anyone is challenging the premise of Pagan Christianity, or the Harlot Church. He[Newbold] even had a pretty good definition of pharmakia/witchcraft that reflected the reality of the distinction between true science and the esoteric elements that we consider to be occult. He said:
Quote:

"The Greek word for sorcery is pharmakeia which refers to a person who prepares and uses magical remedies. The King James Version translates it "witchcraft"." Chapter 13 Witchcraft in Everyday Life


Now if we are examining whether or not the institution of the modern day Church is a valid representation of the Church that Jesus established then we might find equivalence in the two discussions. As far as I know there isn't a question in anyones mind when it comes to comparing the present-day organization with the living organism which is -- the Church.

Quote:


And I know that in times past 'we/i/you?' have used compilance as a guide in making judgments that possibly placed people who hadn't made the commitment yet under bondage with peer presure. Yet I don't believe that which we have been delivered and set free from would or should be considered as "trivialities". Maybe that was a poor choice of words, I think I get your meaning...'majoring on minors'??? But when we're given light we're to obey, regardless of how trivial or elementary it may seem to us, amen?


Of course we should obey when given truth. Imagine the foolishness of continuing a ritual when it is shown to be absolutely worthless (even offensive) as it relates to the worship of God. But the key concept in this equation is not the practice nor the propagation of the ritual, it is hearing the truth... and how shall they hear without a preacher? We tend to focus on damning the ritual instead of heralding the truth that renders the ritual foolish.

I don't find that Paul was too upset by having to preach a message on Mars Hill in the shadow of the altar to an unknown God (would we even venture into a church building that had such an altar?) he takes the occasion and turns it into an opportunity to preach the truth... even using the altar's description as an object lesson to represent the one and only TRUE GOD. He spends precious little time denouncing their foolishness... he, to my mind, trivializes the object of their affection and just assumes that once the truth of the omniscient God has been embraced the foolishness of their ignorance would become automatically apparent.

Quote:

Acts17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.


Preach all you want against idols but in all of your preaching present Jesus... He is the ultimate Truth and when He is lifted up the foolishness of idolatry is apparent.

Quote:

Would you hit the teeth of your chain saw-blades with a rat-tailed file to put an edge on them and top it off with gas?...just in case. Smile


My pleasure... just let me know where you'll be preaching! <grin>

Blessings,
William

[Updated on: Mon, 14 November 2011 18:47]


I want to believe!
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8603 is a reply to message #8602 ] Mon, 14 November 2011 16:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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moulder wrote on Mon, 14 November 2011 15:17

Our discussion might go something like this:

You: (you, in general) Did you hear that message about the harlot church system?

Me: Why, yes... praise God. It's a blessing when others are getting to hear the same message we heard 30 years ago.

You: Amen!

Me: (Trying to think of something else to add...) It's a shame that people had to wait for Pagan Christianity and other books to come out in order to begin to see some of the ways that people have been deceived. (Implied point: We should have been the bearers of this wonderful news!)
I have been, for years...don't ask about the success rate. Sad



You: True.

Me: Amen.



What more can be said?

LOL... So now you know how I felt trying to stay engaged in the discussion on drugs being occult... Hey I get it, nuff said.LOL




The discussion dealing with whether or not medical science was occult or not is different from this thread because.....

I was speaking of "perception" by different people, as was you, I think, not comparing the thread content...



I wuz hoping to get sum other folks to chime in on it, maybe people who haven't felt comfortable posting on some of the topics. I ain't giving up... Smile


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8613 is a reply to message #8603 ] Sat, 19 November 2011 07:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JWBTI  is currently offline JWBTI
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Ok, We quote this……

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
2 Cor 6:17-18 (KJV)


Was Paul telling them to come out of the Imperfect Church at Corinth or was he telling
Them to come out from the things and idols of this world ?

Come on now !…..smile…… the Church at Corinth had it’s problems, just like our
Own full gospel churches today !


What are we to come out of ?


Ron
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8614 is a reply to message #8613 ] Sat, 19 November 2011 13:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Opps, maybe sum-body didn't read de book. Smile I believe Charles Newbold was using Rev.18:4 and not II Corinthians 6:17-18.

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."Rev.18:4


But the question concerning whether or not Paul was telling the Corinthians to come out out their Imperfect church? I agree with your point that he was telling them to separate from fellowship and not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers as well as idolatry, not to leave the assembly.

I believe the call to come out is to anyone who finds themselves caught up in the denominational system of man with all the traditions and dead works. If a person is in a 'full-gospel fellowship' that is striving to follow the pattern of the NT Church with Jesus(Holy Spirit) in charge instead of man, then I would (imho) think the message to come out wouldn't be to them. I don't think Newbold (I know I don't think this) was saying that every assembly of believers throughout the world are part of the Harlot Church System. There probably will be a remnant found both in the desert(spiritual) and in assemblies.

Who do you think Jesus was speaking to in Rev. 18:4 and what is He telling people to come out of? Obviously He is saying come out of Babylon, the question of us is to spiritually discern who/what is Babylon. Could 'Babylon the great' be used to describe more than one thing? RCC? Denominational religious system? America? One world system?

Thoughts, anyone?


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8615 is a reply to message #8614 ] Sat, 19 November 2011 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JWBTI  is currently offline JWBTI
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Chapter 7 - Institutionalized

INSTITUTIONALIZED
It is strange enough that these institutions seem to take on an existence of their own. It is stranger yet how our institutions institutionalize us.

(Did we do this at Faith Assembly ?)

BECOMING LIKE THEM

Something in us draws us to the things we join. Soon after we join those things, they seem to have a way of possessing us. They become us and we become them. We find our identity in them. We boast, "I am Presbyterian." "I am Southern Baptist." "I am Methodist." "I am Roman Catholic." "I am Pentecostal." Then, we cannot resist asking others, "What are you?"

( I belong to Faith Assembly/Glory Barn!)

BELIEVING WHAT THEY BELIEVE
To truly belong to one of these institutions, we are somewhat required to believe what we are told to believe by those who rule within them. We often do not know what we believe ourselves apart from the doctrines of our church. Jerry Wilson recounts, "While studying for the ministry a fellow student began asking me questions about what I believed. I answered each one by telling him what the Baptists believe. I continued on for a while. Then he smiled and asked, 'Don't you believe anything?'"

( Well….. Brother Freeman said this or that and this is what he does)

BECOMING DEPENDENT UPON THEM

Just as Brooks became dependent upon those walls at Shawshank prison, so we become dependent upon our institutions. We trust in them to take care of us. In a similar way, our institutions need us. The authorities within them need for us to be dependent upon them and the institution in order to perpetuate their existence and that of the institution.

(Was our dependence on Christ or Faith Assembly and it’s leaders?)

PREEMINENCE OF THE INSTITUTION
Our institutions often become more important than the people for whom they were intended.

(Did this happen to us ?)

INSTITUTIONAL HIERARCHIES
All institutions whether governmental, educational, social, scientific, or religious have some form of hierarchical power-positions structured into them. These are the old guard, so to speak, those who not only have vested authority but exercise strict control. Very little, if anything, is allowed to happen without their say-so. It is no less true in the churches.

(Was there strick control at FA)

INSTITUTIONAL RULES AND REGULATIONS
Many things have been started in the Spirit and founded upon solid scriptural principles, but were later institutionalized. The process is quite simple, natural, and common. Once the activity has begun, men tend to want to organize it. They wish to put some kind of structure around it in order to control it or at least maintain control within it. Institutional structure is generally made of rigid rules and regulations. Once set in place, these rules are hard to change. They become the authority over even those who made them. Even the people who make them bind themselves to the rules and, thereby, elevate the rules as the higher authority.

(Did we have rules and regulations at FA ?)

Were we part of the Harlot System also ?


Ron
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8616 is a reply to message #8615 ] Sat, 19 November 2011 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Now we're getting somewhere(imo)...self examination. This is what I took away from this book more than anything else, it's so easy to look elsewhere and see others faults. I wasn't at FA so I'll leave those questions to be answered by you guys who were there. But I was in an assembly that followed FA and HEF, and yes we fell into that same mindset. We became legalistic, proud, elitist, we put Bro. Freeman on a pedestal, and too often followed a routine that was comfortable rather than allowing The Holy Spirit to move freely in our midst. We became what we had left behind...Still it was far better than anything I've ever known, but in hindsight? We wasn't 'there ', though we thought we were.

This is why I believe this book is important, it goes below the surface of the obvious and points one towards an honest examination of themselves. Some need it more than others, but it's something all Christians can benefit from...if it leads to repentance and a closer relationship with Jesus and our brothers and sisters.

Like I stated in an earlier post, I was impacted by it after I had read it a couple of times and then stated seeking wisdom and understanding from The Lord as it applied to my own life. I believe it(the book, The Harlot Church System) dovetails very well with what Bro. Freeman wrote in 'Deeper Life in The Spirit' 40 years ago.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8618 is a reply to message #8615 ] Sun, 20 November 2011 18:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Ouch, Ron! (and James)

It's always easier to apply truth to others who don't seem to be walking in it... much harder to examine ourselves with the same standard.

One thing can be said though, we were given the tools that could help us to eventually get it right... assuming that we don't get trapped with the things you mentioned.

We know first hand how hard it is to admit areas where we haven't been as teachable as we should be even as we preach to others concerning their own obstinate attitudes.

Because we were given the tools our sin is doubly magnified if we don't continue to grow up in the practice of our Faith and ferret out the things that don't hold up to the light of the truth.

I'd say that many of our own problems stem from the attitude that not holding fast the things we were taught was stressed so much that even when we could not discern between doctrine and culture, we continued to hold fast to both.

Don't misunderstand, holding fast truth/doctrine is VERY important; it's our discernment about what constitutes that doctrine that is in question here.

...consistency, thou art a jewel.

Blessings,
William

[Updated on: Sun, 20 November 2011 18:31]


I want to believe!
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8623 is a reply to message #8618 ] Tue, 22 November 2011 14:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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"...consistency, thou art a jewel." ~William ........Shakespeare Smile

So the question becomes, what do we do when we discover inconsistencies in our lives(doctrines)? Obstinately hunker down and defend them to the death, or repent and seek The Lord for wisdom and strength in overcoming them? I seek to do the latter.

"For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of..." II Corinthians 7:10

James speaks of the man who is inconsistent in his ways like unto a wave of the sea driven by the wind and tossed about.(James 1:6)He also says that to 'see' or 'hear' truth without obeying it, is like looking into a mirror and then going on about our business without putting the self-examination into practice...forgetting what The Holy Spirit had revealed and convicted one of.(James 1:22-24)

One would think that having a painting company for 17 years, I would have learned the problems that results from "painting oneself into a corner "

Thank God for His tender mercies, they're new every morning, Great is His faithfulness.

Preaching to myself here, by writing down things The Lord does and shows helps me to remember, I don't want to forget. If it benefits anyone else...Praise Jesus.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8625 is a reply to message #8623 ] Tue, 22 November 2011 19:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JWBTI  is currently offline JWBTI
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William wrote:
A side benefit that stems from ignoring the christmas tree idol on your left and the easter decorations on the right is the obvious statement you are making as to their powerlessness in true Christian worship. (Remember, we must ever be diligent to spread the word that WE ARE THE CHURCH... these surroundings have NOTHING to do with the true Church.)

Anyway, that's what I think. It is one thing to teach people the truth about some of these things that we've known for years, it's another thing to allow these trivialities to stand in the way of us teaching these truths to our brethren -- the Church -- because we are too superstitious to 'darken the doors' of their institutions.
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------
Amen William !

Ron’s Reply:
In in the year of 1975 a man named Floyd M. came to our Four Square Church and
Introduced us to the Faith message. Then invited us to his house for further instructions.
He taught us about the holidays and the deeper things of God. He pointed us to Gods
Word. He instructed us on the Baptism in The Holy Spirit and water Baptism in
Jesus Name. Then he told me about The Glory Barn! Then a few years later I started
A new job, my boss was Dick S (grandom) It wasn’t long before he was making the trip
To FA with me….and now you know the rest of the story !

I will be forever grateful for Brother Floyd, he came into our Harlot church and spoke
The truth and brought me out of the System ! If he had not obeyed the Holy Spirit, I
Would not be typing this post tonight !

I don’t know Floyds over all results in how many people he turned to the truth, but I
Am Thankful to Jesus Christ for that Brother for turning me and Grandom to His truth !

This is why I still go into the system believing that I can point others to the truth and
Draw them out just as Jesus drew me out thru Brother Floyd!

Praise Jesus ! For His Wonderful works to the children of men !

[Updated on: Tue, 22 November 2011 19:16]


Ron
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8627 is a reply to message #8625 ] Tue, 22 November 2011 20:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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What a wonderful story!

His mercy is everlasting.........


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #8628 is a reply to message #8625 ] Tue, 22 November 2011 22:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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There aren't too many ways to hear the message, let's see, I can think of two -- 1) divine revelation direct from Jesus (example: Paul -- but his experience was quickly followed up with a personal visit from a disciple who was attuned to the Holy Spirit!) and 2) divine revelation via a preacher.

I think that completes the list... (open for more suggestions.)

The first method seems to be an exception to the normal means of truth dissemination; the second method -- Jesus working through us, His Body, is the pattern we see almost exclusively.

I know I harp on this a lot and I don't mean this to be a 'jab' at anyone, but the fact of the matter is -- we have no right to lament the lack of consecration among the rest of the 'church world' if we ourselves aren't fulfilling the obligation of getting the truth that we've been given to those who do not have it.

The stated mission of Faith Assembly (and the satellite groups) was to train workers for the harvest. Sure, there are many personal benefits that we derived from hearing the message, but that doesn't detract from the main goal which is to spread those truths to others.

From my own experience I know that it is an easy thing to take the position that -- since we are not called into the 'five-fold' ministry (maybe the call to the overcoming message was a call to the 'five-fold'?) our responsibility is only to ourselves and family. I question that line of thinking now.

Gideon's Army was a metaphor, we were told, that described what God was/is doing in the end-time body of believers that was/is FA.

If we believe that -- how do we apply it to our present-day situation?

--There were many who were initially called when Gideon rallied the people. (This came AFTER they had repented and called upon God for deliverance.)

--The first test for the people came when Gideon announced God's message to the fearful and afraid. They were asked to pack up and go home. I've always had a negative view of those who ended up going home but I'm not so sure that is warranted based upon the account in Judges 6-8; apparently it was all according to God's master plan to pair down this group for the express purpose of eliminating the inevitable boasting that would follow victory if a large number of people were involved. The deeper-life message that existed side-by-side with the Gideon's Army message should have kept us from this grievous sin but let's face it, we became puffed up anyway. (Most of us don't have much to boast about now which I take to mean that He hasn't given up on us!)

--Another thing to keep in mind about those who were sent home is the fact that, instead of being labeled failures (which is how we sometimes view them today), they became beneficiaries of the very victory that resulted from those who participated in the routing of the enemy... in fact, the victory would have been pretty shallow if it had only benefited the three hundred, now wouldn't it? We should always keep in mind that we are fighting for our brothers and sisters who find themselves still under the bondage of the enemy instead of mocking (figuratively speaking) their seeming inability to grasp the truths that we have heard and hopefully obeyed.

--The second test was the test at the waters and the same things that I've said already apply to this group as well, they were beneficiaries of the victory that was to follow, and they too were cut because God did not want any misunderstanding as to the supernatural nature of the victory. We, to continue the metaphor, were exhorted to drink carefully from the water of the Word so that we would be counted among that group that would eventually be used as instruments of deliverance. Somehow I and a few others focused so much on our prowesses as water drinkers that we missed out on the deeper life principle and mocked (again, figuratively speaking) those who failed this test. (Another trip around the mountain for us!) We probably should have realized that passing this test was due more to the sovereignty of God instead of assuming that our ability to 'lap like a dog' was due to our own natural abilities. (Eph2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God...)

Not to take anything from the admonition to drink carefully -- that is important -- but it also is important that we not lord over (look down on) those who did not pass this test. Those that were sent home were and remain the central focus (beneficiaries) of the victory that the Lord will give us.

Which brings me back to what I was starting to say at the beginning... if we are truly a part of this metaphorical Gideon's army (isn't that what FA was all about?) then EACH ONE OF US has a job to perform. There was NOT ONE of those three hundred who got to sit on the sidelines. One may claim that not being in the "five-fold" ministry is an excuse for passivity, but for this thing to work there must be a concerted effort to light those lamps and burst those jugs (we all have the same easy task!!!).

The result? 1) The enemy is defeated, and 2) Our brethren are liberated from the harlot system.

We do well if, by God's help, we accomplish these two things.

Anyone got a light?

Blessings,
William

[Updated on: Wed, 23 November 2011 18:16]


I want to believe!
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #9703 is a reply to message #8628 ] Thu, 29 August 2013 10:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I read through this thread again since it's been two years to see if my views have changed. (I have spent the last 4 months visiting various 'churches' that I would have considered as part of the harlot church system of man at the time I was commenting in this thread.) My eyes have been opened even more because it's no longer a observation from the 'outside' but witnessed by being there. I leave the assemblies grieved within my spirit as to the shallowness and lack of commitment that is so evident from the worship service (which doesn't even resemble true worship; people with their speciality coffee in hand watching the 'praise team' perform the lastest 'comtemporary christian top-10 songs played at high volume), to the messages that does nothing to disciple people or offer Godly solutions apart from the lastest quotes from some 'christian best-selling book' or scriptures used as proof text from some watered down translation of God's Word.

My views have changed to the extent that what brothers William and Ron shared (in love and with patience) with me concerning our responsibility to share the truth with those within the system I agree with. To be lead of The Lord in finding the way and opportunity to do this within/without this system is my prayer and desire. There are sheep within the institutional system of man who haven't been taught better, they haven't been taught who God is and how to worship Him in spirit and in truth. They have no pattern to compare what is being taught with what is sound Biblical teaching. And those doing the teaching are just reflections of the system that taught them. The system is broken, the standard being used to measure success is faulty. Numbers are used to judge (how many, how much, how big) instead of transformed lives, holiness, and Godly fruit.

Again, I'm not condemning the people within these denominations or nondenominations, God loves them just as much as He does me...and He WILL lead His sheep to where He wants them, my desire is to The Body of Christ come into unity and maturity in Christ.

Thank you, William and Ron for your sharing in love yet not being afraid to speak the truth.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #9704 is a reply to message #9703 ] Thu, 29 August 2013 21:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Hi James,

I've been keeping up by reading all of the posts (condolences to Sue) but haven't had much time to post myself. My business partner for the last 14-15 years passed away at the end of June and I've been overwhelmed with the extra workload.

In the last few days I've been reading another book (not sure if that qualifies as one of those latest-christian-best-selling-books you mentioned, James...<grin>) called: The Vertical Church by James MacDonald. I don't know who the guy is nor have I googled anything about him so don't take this as any sort of endorsement beyond the fact that I've found that the book so far to be an excellent read.

He deals with the two types of churches that are recognizable mostly by the contrast they present. These are the seeker-friendly types of churches and the less-attractive-to-the-masses-more-exclusive types of churches. Most churches are not extremely either/or on these points but for the sake of discussion I think that most would agree that that we all can pretty much determine whether or not a church falls more or less into one category or the other. The coffee shop is pretty much a dead give-away!

I think that the type of church most of us would gravitate toward is the exclusive type where the focus is more on the saints than those on the outside. MacDonald categorizes the latter type as those churches that focus on the "unchurched."

But that isn't the interesting part... he goes on to show that for the most part both types of churches have a "horizontal" focus. The seeker-friendly churches see their ministry as reaching the unchurched and the more biblical type model (in my opinion) is all about building up the saints -- but both types are all about horizontal ministry. The claim is that a true church should be more concerned with a "vertical" approach.

Don't get bogged down by the terminology like "horizontal" and "vertical" which I think are just faddish terms that modern society seems infatuated with, but I do think that the concepts that are represented by the terms are valid.

We all would be familiar with the Eph 4:11f passage that teaches us that the purpose behind the various ministries within the church are horizontal in nature and that the true church is exclusively made up of saints, so I'm not going to argue that this is not a valid part of the ministry of the church.

But the thing that intrigues me the most is that while we would like to see a lot of "exclusive-horizontalness" in any church we were associated with, the book has made me ask the question: "Should this be the MAIN focus of a true church?"

The centrality of the bible message concerns the reconciliation of God and mankind... this is a "vertical" message, if you'll allow me to use the terminology!

I'm only about a quarter of the way through the book but the more I think about it the more I think that our "horizontal" emphasis, even when directed toward the building up of the saints, might not bear up when we get right down to it.

For instance... let's say that we find a church that is teaching the word and where body ministry is promoted. If we could find such a church we (or me at least) would probably find it tremendously satisfying even without the manifested presence of God. Now that is a scary thought when I think about it. A truly vertical church is totally focused upon the Glory of God and all of the horizontal ministry stems from that.

But I've got to say that for the most part, in my mind at least, the ideal church would be a teaching center that has as its focus the building up of the saints. The scary part of this is, that it is conceivable that one could have such a church and not be focused upon the central truth of God's Glory and actually function for all intents and purposes without the powerful glory that is evidenced by God's manifest presence in its midst.

I'm not sure I've expressed this very well and I'll try to do better later... but for now I'm really thirsting for that 3rd type of church!

Blessings,
William


I want to believe!
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #9705 is a reply to message #9704 ] Fri, 30 August 2013 02:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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These comments are all insightful and interesting.

I know about the Harlot Church, the vertical church, and the flat lined church. Pun.



When I have to be reminded of what Jesus looks like to sinners and how I should be as an example of Jesus, I think of my earthly father.

He was a member of all of these institutions that have been mentioned. He did not have all of this light. But, you saw the Light in him.


I can't think of one person who walked and acted like Jesus at FA, and in the enlightened faith message, more than my father's humble example.


He was a simple man to the world. He did not know his theology, like his daughter, but, oh, how his example humbles me.

Books are good. Theology is good. Debates are good. OOnline is good.


Just show me one man like my earthly father without all of the above. He reached out to all who were in trouble. He was a man of comfort and peace. He gracefully convicted you.

No offense. Just tired of academics.

The world does not need acedemics.

They want The Comforter.

Where are all of the comforters from all of this study?

No condemnation, here. I am included.

I have not loved and I have not comforted like my dad used to. He touched so many lives eternally.

Does the Harlot, horizontal, vertical, square, round, and triangle church matter if we have not reached out with what we know from years past?

All I know is that my Dad did not know or understand OO, but he puts all of us to shame.

Why?


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #9706 is a reply to message #9705 ] Fri, 30 August 2013 20:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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GWB wrote on Fri, 30 August 2013 02:21

All I know is that my Dad did not know or understand OO, but he puts all of us to shame.

Why?



Probably because he was your dad, and you looked up to him.

I kinda feel the same way about my mother. 82 years old and still keeps the church's books, never misses a church meeting, helps run their community food bank and soup kitchen, the most giving person I've ever known, works 6 days a week at the Post Office, and shows her grandchildren unconditional love...me too!<grin>


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #9707 is a reply to message #9706 ] Sat, 31 August 2013 05:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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james wrote on Fri, 30 August 2013 20:06

GWB wrote on Fri, 30 August 2013 02:21

All I know is that my Dad did not know or understand OO, but he puts all of us to shame.

Why?



Probably because he was your dad, and you looked up to him.

I kinda feel the same way about my mother. 82 years old and still keeps the church's books, never misses a church meeting, helps run their community food bank and soup kitchen, the most giving person I've ever known, works 6 days a week at the Post Office, and shows her grandchildren unconditional love...me too!<grin>


I thought this as well when I read Gillyanns post. I also thought of my grandma, and my wife's grandma as well.

They were not scholars but had much fruit in helping others. Maybe we did look up to them because we knew their hearts were sincere in their commitment.

Maybe those we don't know have this sincerity and are true born again believers that live it to the best of their ability. We can only look upon the outward appearance of men, unless you know someone personally.

Even though many preach the denominations are a dead religion, there are some who are God's sheep.

Also maybe its easy to be religious and to make the way so narrow that we wonder if were even worthy enough to enter in. The Pharisees fell into this trap and made heavy burdens that they thought everyone should bear but them.

Thankfully Jesus told us that were to be as little children and just trust our Heavenly Father to take care of us and He would let know one pluck us from His hand.

I'm not a fan of the dead system but I know there are some who love the Lord and as GWB said, and may put us to shame, at least with the older generation, I don't know if the newer generations have the same influence. Unless God visits a church they only have the system as their example.

Gary



Re: The Harlot Church System [message #9708 is a reply to message #9707 ] Sat, 31 August 2013 06:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
Messages: 713
Registered: March 2008
Location: Louisville, Ky area
Senior Member
I agree. The old saints were different.

My main concern is feeding my kids and grandkids so that they will have this kind of fruit. I try to walk in all of these things. I hope they remember me the way we saw fruit in our relatives.

I don't know where to send my kids for real praise and worship and The Word.

I just have to trust that they are in the palm of His hand.


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #9709 is a reply to message #9708 ] Sun, 01 September 2013 06:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
Messages: 870
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana
Senior Member

Did you know the guy who wrote "Mystery Babylon" has since rejected all that he wrote in the book?

He made a public announcement and changed everything he believed from his research. It just seemed strange that this guy now denies what he wrote.

We visited a number of churches ourselves, in one situation after going to several I thought I would just remain silent on some subjects and enjoy the fellowship and worship. The man basically quoted scriptures and taught as best he knew how.

But after a few months I found there was so many things that were totally unscriptural that I had to leave.

The system is only a mirror image of Christianity without Christ and the Bible as we know it.

GaryB


Re: The Harlot Church System [message #9710 is a reply to message #9705 ] Sun, 01 September 2013 08:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sparkles  is currently offline sparkles
Messages: 247
Registered: March 2008
Senior Member
He was a member of all of these institutions that have been mentioned. He did not have all of this light. But, you saw the Light in him.
I can't think of one person who walked and acted like Jesus at FA, and in the enlightened faith message, more than my father's humble example. . I can think of a lot of people at Faith Assembly who were very Godly and were like Jesus. Since we didn’t know your Father I don’t think this is a good example.
My father was also a wonderful man. I always said there is only one best dad in the world and I got
him. I would have to think a long time before I can remember a time when him and I fought or didn’t get along. He had a servant’s mentality. When I was little I always said I want to grow up and be just like my dad.


He was a simple man to the world. He did not know his theology, like his daughter, but, oh, how his example humbles me.

Books are good. Theology is good. Debates are good. OOnline is good.


Just show me one man like my earthly father without all of the above. He reached out to all who were in trouble. He was a man of comfort and peace. He gracefully convicted you.

No offense. Just tired of academics.

The world does not need acedemics. Quite the contrary, the world does need academics along with being led by the Lord. Because there is so little academics or theology being taught there are multitudes that are following every wind of doctrine. It is a dangerous thing to have one without the other. I was taught to have both, know God’s word and be led by the Holy Spirit. God tells us we need to know His word. Psalm 119:11 “Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.” Pretty much every verse except maybe four in Psalm 119 has something to say about Gods word, or statutes, or law, or commandments or precept. Knowing God’s word is of utmost importance if we don’t want to walk in some of the endtime deceptions. They want The Comforter.
Where are all of the comforters from all of this study? I could name a few, as I have been very comforted by people on this site. When I have gotten emails from them or what they share for all to see. Being comforted is not always someone holding a hand, but it may be just someone saying I am praying for you, which I have had from people on this site. Sometimes being comforted is just knowing someone cares, which I have also had from some on this site. Being comforted can be shown to people in more than one way. I am comforted knowing I can go to people on this site and they will share the truth with me, not some compromising message of false doctrine.
It really isn’t a fair statement to ask where are all the comforters from this study. I am sure most of the people on this site are not going to brag about how much they have done to help others, or how they have comforted others. They will glorify God, but not themselves by sharing what they have done, but rather they will share what God has done.
No condemnation, here. I am included.

I have not loved and I have not comforted like my dad used to. He touched so many lives eternally.

Does the Harlot, horizontal, vertical, square, round, and triangle church matter if we have not reached out with what we know from years past? Some have. Remember, one plants, one waters but God gives the increase. I Cor. 3:6-10
All I know is that my Dad did not know or understand OO, but he puts all of us to shame. No offense, but there are some who walk in the spirit that in God’s eyes have not been put to shame. Without knowing your father we really can’t receive this statement. You make it hard, because no one wants to say anything that may offend you when you speak so highly of you father. I doubt that you know the work and ministry that people on this site walk in. Most, if not all, you have never meet in person and seen their lives, but only by what they share. What they share I have been extremely blessed, encouraged and convicted by. I may not agree with everything everyone says, nor will they agree with me about everything, but we are all trusting God to lead us into all the truth. This is a process and takes time, and only God can ultimately do this. People need to be taught in God’s word, and the brothers on this site have done a wonderful job in sharing God’s truth.
Why?
Re: The Harlot Church System [message #9711 is a reply to message #9710 ] Sun, 01 September 2013 17:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
Messages: 713
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Location: Louisville, Ky area
Senior Member
I agree.

It is important to be a comforter and to be led by the Holy Spirit.

Smile


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: The Harlot Church System, "Come Out of Her, My People" [message #9729 is a reply to message #8024 ] Mon, 09 September 2013 17:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
Messages: 870
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana
Senior Member

Started reading your book on Babylon. I may quote or ask questions from time to time if I do not understand where he is going with this.

Did you like this Book and find it to be scriptural? I have another book similar in nature from a brother in New Zealand, if I can figure out to post the link I'll add it later. It's in my email box but it seems very similar in nature.

Gary
Re: The Harlot Church System, "Come Out of Her, My People" [message #9730 is a reply to message #9729 ] Mon, 09 September 2013 19:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
Messages: 1941
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Senior Member
"my book"? Razz lol

I liked the book a lot, and I found it to be scriptural as best I can gleen from Acts and the pattern of the NT assemblies. The picture of the institutional church of today wasn't so eye opening, but the chapters on 'self' and some of the points on personal examination were spot on, in my view.

Between the book "Pagan Christianity" by Frank Viola, this book by Charles Newbold, along with the teachings by Bro. Freeman 30 years ago and what I've experienced over the last 4-5 months of personal observation I'd conclude that the western 'church' today has NO resemblence to the pattern and exampleS displayed throughout the NT. And I can't describe the sadness and burden I experience when witnessing the lack of power and presence of God in assemblies today.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: The Harlot Church System, "Come Out of Her, My People" [message #9731 is a reply to message #9730 ] Tue, 10 September 2013 03:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
Messages: 870
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana
Senior Member

Its become a social club more then anything. Very Sad indeed.

Gary
Re: The Harlot Church System, "Come Out of Her, My People" [message #9733 is a reply to message #9731 ] Tue, 10 September 2013 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
Messages: 537
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia
Senior Member
And one that actually inhibits people`s relationships with others in the greater community as their `social group,` is `laid on` for them.

Hi, all am just finding my way around with Gary`s help.


Marilyn C
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