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| The Father [message #7729] |
Sun, 27 March 2011 17:18  |
 Mark L
Messages: 834
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
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I have a conundrum here. Any theologians about?
Bro Freeman said (quoting from memory here) that we will never see the Father. He said everything God does in this world is through in or by Jesus. He said he doubted we ever would see him.
I agree with that and not only because he said it. I just think its right.
However and it is a big "however" I have scripture.
Rev. 5/7 and Daniel 7/13-14
So what do we do with that? Anyone here practiced in unwrapping a riddle from the midst of a conundrum? Or even if you're not you're comments are welcome. This is something that has bothered me for a long time and I really don't have an answer.
[Updated on: Sun, 27 March 2011 17:20]
Fires will be kindled to testify that two and two make four. Swords will be drawn to prove that leaves are green in summer.”
G.K. Chesterton
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| Re: The Father [message #7730 is a reply to message #7729] |
Sun, 27 March 2011 18:40  |
james
Messages: 2137
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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Conundrum, eh? Well I think the theologians are all busy at the moment so I'll just make comments.
First I know you know how to us a concordance and have easily found the scriptures that tell us what Jesus said concerning no man has seen God. John 1:18 and 6:46 and I John 4:12. And also the scriptures that tell us that whosoever hath seen Jesus has seen The Father.John 14:9 and 12:45. And 'Oneness' believers use scriptures like I Corinthians 8:6 and Ephesians 4:6 as prooftext for their doctrine. Simple me takes The Word as I read it, if Jesus said no one has seen Him, The Father, then I believe it...But does He say that no one EVER will?
As to what or who John saw that is recorded in Revelation and what or who Daniel saw in his night vision, maybe was an image of God as He chose to reveal to them for the purpose of them recording it. Does that mean we will see Him face to face? Don't know, but I don't think it will be too much longer before we'll find out...
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: The Father [message #7737 is a reply to message #7730] |
Sun, 03 April 2011 02:42 |
Mark L
Messages: 834
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
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but I don't think it will be too much longer before we'll find out...
Now there is a classic James isim 
Bro. Freeman said he doubted we ever would see the father (in eternity) I think he is probably correct.
The interesting thing to me is that the one who made some of those statements (John 1:18 and 6:46 and I John 4:12) is also the one who apparently saw him in Rev.4-5. I realize this isn't a deep question but it is something I have always wondered about.
Some years ago I was wondering about a ministry based in the southern US. This women had written several books that I found very interesting (and don't recommend anyone read)
http://www.amazon.ca/He-Came-Set-Captives-Free/dp/0883683237 /ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1301797084&sr=1- 1
I talked about her some time ago here. She talked about an angel coming into their house and talking to them about "the Father"
Upon reflection I realized if an angel is going to come and talk he will talk about Jesus not the Father. That made up my mind for me. At least as far as the supernatural part of her ministry is concerned.
I think there are some very serious heresies coming our way in this endtime one of which may very well include part of this question. Which is why I have been thinking about it. Or maybe I'm just the kind of person who likes his ducks neatly lined up in a row.
My own position is John 6/46. No one has seen the Father save he which is of God he has seen the Father.
[Updated on: Sun, 03 April 2011 02:44]
Fires will be kindled to testify that two and two make four. Swords will be drawn to prove that leaves are green in summer.”
G.K. Chesterton
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| Re: The Father [message #7738 is a reply to message #7737] |
Sun, 03 April 2011 03:50 |
james
Messages: 2137
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Well, since the theologians aren't stepping up to the plate, I'll just comment again. BTW: I too, prefer 'my' ducks lined up in a row...whatever that means. But I've learned that when we're walking by faith, God many times prefers that we relinquish our desire for control and just trust Him...to line up the ducks.
I remember you mentioning Rebecca Brown several years ago in the Occult section, but I've never read anything she's written.
It may not be a 'deep' question, but I can see how one would ponder upon it. But when I read John 6:46 "Not that any man hath seen The Father, save He which is of God, He hath seen The Father." that settles it for me also...pondering over. Since God IS Spirit, how can we see Him? Even if He were to allow us into His presence, physically.(I understand we have access into His presence by faith, through Jesus' work at Calvary)
Classic James isim eh? That's funny.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: The Father [message #7739 is a reply to message #7729] |
Mon, 04 April 2011 02:17 |
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william
Messages: 1451
Registered: January 2006 |
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Well I don't know where all of the theologians are either, but here is my take on whether or not we will see the Father.
My memory is fuzzy about exactly what brother Freeman said (other than what has already been shared) but when I heard him teach that I came away with the idea that the reason why we probably would not see the Father is because of our finiteness. God (the Father) is infinite in His being making it impossible for finite man to behold.
Jesus in His human nature, and a perfect representation of the Godhead, could say to the disciples that to see Him was to see the Father.
If our conception of God is one that conceives of three beings then it is perfectly natural to wonder why we should not be able to see the Father. (Not sure why we don't wonder why we will never see the Holy Spirit... unless we instinctively know that He cannot be seen... which begs the question concerning the Father!) [edited to say that our conception of God should not conceive of three separate beings!]
We do have at least two occasions recorded for us where the Father was actually heard. At Jesus' baptism and on the Mount of Transfiguration.
Some deep thoughts there Hardbones!
Blessings,
William
[Updated on: Mon, 04 April 2011 02:20]
I want to believe!
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| Re: The Father [message #7821 is a reply to message #7818] |
Wed, 18 May 2011 21:24 |
Mark L
Messages: 834
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
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Well I do.
Fires will be kindled to testify that two and two make four. Swords will be drawn to prove that leaves are green in summer.”
G.K. Chesterton
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| Re: The Father [message #7822 is a reply to message #7818] |
Wed, 18 May 2011 23:06 |
james
Messages: 2137
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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| DeWayne wrote on Tue, 17 May 2011 23:46 |
Just curious, does everyone here agree that Jesus is God?
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I don't answer for anyone but myself, but I believe it'd be safe to say that those members here who 'regularly' post agree that Jesus is God. There are many scriptures that prove this truth...
Isaiah 9:6...Isaiah prophecies that He(Jesus) would be called The Mighty God as well as The Everlasting Father.
John 1:1 says that The Word, Logos,(Jesus) was with God from the beginning, and that He (The Word/Jesus) WAS God.
John 10:30 says that..."I and my Father are one."
John 20:28 Thomas, in recognizing Jesus declared..."My Lord and my God."
We (all I know of) believe in The Trinity, God The Father, The Son (Jesus), and The Holy Spirit. One God, eternally manifest in three persons.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: The Father [message #7871 is a reply to message #7825] |
Fri, 27 May 2011 14:13 |
DeWayne
Messages: 82
Registered: August 2006 |
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Very glad to hear that all of you, so far, believe in Jesus/God. After many visits to internet forums I have kind of been amazed at how many 'Christians' don't believe that Jesus is God. I like to throw out this verse and ask, 'If this isn't Jesus then Who is it?'.
Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
10 I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.
Sometimes they confess that it is God. So then I lay this on them:
Revelation 2:18-23 (NKJV)
18 "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, 'These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: 19 I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. 20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.
Amazingly some still refuse to believe that Jesus is truly God.
[Updated on: Fri, 27 May 2011 14:15]
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| Re: The Father [message #7872 is a reply to message #7871] |
Fri, 27 May 2011 14:54 |
james
Messages: 2137
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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| DeWayne wrote on Fri, 27 May 2011 09:13 |
After many visits to internet forums I have kind of been amazed at how many 'Christians' don't believe that Jesus is God.
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DeWayne, you'll find most anything on 'Christian forums'; most 'Christian forums' are a reflection of the institutional religious system that the members have been influenced by. Hopefully the desert has removed Egypt from most of us here at OO, although just as Israel, not everyone embraces God's plan without looking back/going back or murmuring.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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