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Re: Deception, Using Creation Teaching [message #6526 is a reply to message #6521 ] Fri, 25 December 2009 07:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james is currently offline james
Messages: 1954
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
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Speaking of 'The Big Bang', God does say that there will be a great noise when He returns.

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a GREAT NOISE, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." II Peter 3:10

But I've never read anything about a 'great noise' or Big Bang when God created everything...

Maybe one of those Bibles that has a running commentary with an exposition of what God 'really' meant would be helpful.


'In the beginning [there was a great noise], and God created the heaven and the earth. [And a few billion years went by] and then God said, Let there be light...[and a few more billion years went by, and God said, that's enough for now, let's call it a day.]'(I made the commentary up to make a point)

I know that's a bit extreme, but it does show that when man gets to explaining God with his own intellect, he gets in trouble.

I'm thankful that a full understanding of how God did everything is not a prerequisite to a relationship with Him, but that He is looking for faith in Him.

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb.11:6

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
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Re: Deception, Using Creation Teaching [message #7317 is a reply to message #6526 ] Sun, 05 September 2010 15:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james is currently offline james
Messages: 1954
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Stephen Hawking, who is thought to have the answers to many questions regarding the universe and how we got here, has now written a new book in which he has concluded that God wasn't involved in the creation of the universe. He is a mathmatical wiz, but this just proves how important faith in God's Word is, and how we're NOT to lean to our own understanding.






http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-09-03-hawking02_S T_N.htm

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
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Re: Deception, Using Creation Teaching [message #7318 is a reply to message #7317 ] Mon, 06 September 2010 09:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grandom is currently offline grandom
Messages: 404
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Puts me in mind of Romans 1:22 (New International Version)

22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
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Re: Deception, Using Creation Teaching [message #7327 is a reply to message #7318 ] Tue, 07 September 2010 20:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB is currently offline GWB
Messages: 713
Registered: March 2008
Location: Louisville, Ky area
Senior Member
As a Christian I believe in the big bang theory. GOD spoke, and BANG!!!!!! it happened. Shocked Very Happy

Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
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Re: Deception, Using Creation Teaching [message #7560 is a reply to message #7327 ] Thu, 23 December 2010 11:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james is currently offline james
Messages: 1954
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
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Just an article I came across confirming just how 'smart' some people are...


The 30,000 year old girls pinkie...

"The 3 billion-letter genome derived from the child's finger SHOWS that the ice-age population of early humans was more diverse than previously thought."


See! There ya go...PROOF...3 billion-letter genome...Whatever!


http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/12/23/siberia.human.an cestor.discovery/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
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Re: Deception, Using Creation Teaching [message #7561 is a reply to message #7560 ] Thu, 23 December 2010 14:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L is currently offline Mark L
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The universe is expanding and the expansion is still speeding up. Which is one of the reasons why the original (mocking) term "big bang" was coined. Which may or may not be an accurate representation of what happened. I have no real problem with the term. Here's why. Most of our universe including us is empty space. If you compressed all matter and left out all space it would be smaller than a nickel. Actually much smaller. I can easily see God in original creation creating all matter in a small compressed form and then exploding it out to form the universe. In six days of course. The angels then (and other personalities) forming the galaxies stars and whatnot out of that matter. Job 38/4-7 says they were there. There is so much interesting stuff going on in science. If we could just get away from their evolution point of view.

Something else interesting is the speed of light. Heard a report that there has been very little research done on "its constancy" The little that has been done has shown it to be deteriorating. Not sure how true it is. That would take care of "billions of years"
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Re: Deception, Using Creation Teaching [message #7585 is a reply to message #7561 ] Sat, 25 December 2010 10:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james is currently offline james
Messages: 1954
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
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Hardbones wrote on Thu, 23 December 2010 14:20



Something else interesting is the speed of light. Heard a report that there has been very little research done on "its constancy" The little that has been done has shown it to be deteriorating. Not sure how true it is. That would take care of "billions of years"



Normally I don't get into astronomy/astrology too much, frankly because I just can't seem to wrap my brain around it...too much, too big...too many numbers for me to get a handle on, though it is fascinating. But I clicked on God TV a few minutes ago and Chuck Missler(know nothing about him) was talking about hidden codes in the genealogies of the OT. He mentioned the speed of light and the controverial conclusions reached by a guy named Barry Setterfield.

Well that reminded me of your post and statement about it(speed of light slowing down). So I did some looking around and found that Barry Setterfield from Australia, in 1981 released a finding that he believed that the speed of light was decreasing fast. But based on what I was able to find, his beliefs weren't received very well. The Institute of Creation Research rejected his finds in 1988, saying that his hypothesis was lacking in plausibility.

I don't know if others are studying this or not and what other findings are 'out there', but I find it mind boggling to be able to calculate the speed of light to begin with.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
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Re: Deception, Using Creation Teaching [message #7586 is a reply to message #5953 ] Sat, 25 December 2010 12:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wishing34 is currently offline wishing34
Messages: 212
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I have been tinkering with a creationism vs evolution web page
although I must admit I have lost interest in the last few months.

An ancient "faster speed of light" is one of my web topics
found at the bottom of the following page on my site:

http://evolution.memorize-chess.com/Starlight.htm

I think the faster ancient speed of light theory breaks down
because the higher speed of light messes up other things
such as energy of mass particles and momentum calculations.


On the web site I am trying to be absolutely scientific and answer
fair and square each topic for both sides from a science only standpoint.

It is brutally difficult on some topics but I think so far I have a science
answer for most if not all the evolutionist's favorite topics.

I figure the evolution types will only pay attention if it is an obviuosly fair site
and I figure the truth will win out in any fair debate.



Jman
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Re: Deception, Using Creation Teaching [message #7587 is a reply to message #7586 ] Sat, 25 December 2010 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james is currently offline james
Messages: 1954
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
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WOW, now I understand why you'd say that I'd be amazed at how many topics are of no interest to you at this current time.

I thought the discussion between C head & E head about the vomeronasal organ was interesting. Just this morning I was wondering where mine had went... Smile
And I like your legal disclaimer, I think you covered most of the bases with that.

I think I know what Mark will spend his afternoon (and extra spare time) doing...I'll probably check more of it out as time allows. It is an interesting format, are you getting any positive results that you're aware of?

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
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Re: Deception, Using Creation Teaching [message #7588 is a reply to message #5953 ] Sat, 25 December 2010 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wishing34 is currently offline wishing34
Messages: 212
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Hi James,

Positive results - I wish.

I had only about 20 or so on the RSS and then
I re-did the domain name which lost about
10 followers.

I think people sold on evolution see it
as too simple and people sold on creationism do not really
want to wade through the details.

I think a more than a few bookmarked it as a reference page but
need not return visit often.

I think it is a religious passion on both sides so no one
sends their kids/students there.

Sort of a disappointment so I have lost interest.


Jman





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Re: Deception, Using Creation Teaching [message #7589 is a reply to message #7588 ] Sat, 25 December 2010 14:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william is currently offline william
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Get ready, I'll send you some people!

[Updated on: Sat, 25 December 2010 14:29]

I want to believe!
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Re: Deception, Using Creation Teaching [message #7590 is a reply to message #5953 ] Sat, 25 December 2010 14:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wishing34 is currently offline wishing34
Messages: 212
Registered: March 2009
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Moulder,

References are of course appreciated.


Check out this page on the site. It is a bit of a last resort
for the creationist when the science overwhelms him.

http://evolution.memorize-chess.com/Scientific-Theory-Might- Change.htm


It is a logically valid scientific position with which to take a stand
against the science onslaught. No science type can overcome this web page
but still the evolutionist's science come out looking pretty good sometimes.

Them's the facts, I cannot help it.



Before people send their homeschoolers to the site they should
know that the science can seem overwhelming and could sew
doubt to young minds.

Jman
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Re: Deception, Using Creation Teaching [message #7591 is a reply to message #7590 ] Sat, 25 December 2010 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william is currently offline william
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I think that they can handle it... course I could get lambasted as well!

Blessings,
William

I want to believe!
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Re: Deception, Using Creation Teaching [message #7592 is a reply to message #7590 ] Sat, 25 December 2010 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james is currently offline james
Messages: 1954
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
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I find this amazing, when I went to the web site and began to read I thought of Mark and his interest in this subject. Then I remembered William's line of work and thought he would be interested and could either use it or recommend to Jman things to do to make it more sucessful. Before I could finish reading a few things that caught my eye (Carbon dating and speed of light), William had already noticed and was making the offer to steer people to the site.

I do agree concerning being cautious about the maturity (both spiritually and mentally) of young students. I've already learned things I didn't know...though that's not supprising, beings there is so much that I don't know. I believe education is a good thing as long as what's being taught doesn't distract from the Knowledge of God or contradict His Word. I don't think we must choose only one as long as we always know what the final authority is.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
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Re: Deception, Using Creation Teaching [message #7593 is a reply to message #7590 ] Sat, 25 December 2010 15:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william is currently offline william
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I just whipped up this banner, but if you have something else, I'll be happy to use it.

index.php?t=getfile&id=210&private=0



Blessings,
William

I want to believe!
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Re: Deception, Using Creation Teaching [message #7594 is a reply to message #5953 ] Sat, 25 December 2010 15:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wishing34 is currently offline wishing34
Messages: 212
Registered: March 2009
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WOW that is really good

Use it

Thanks,

Jman
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Re: Deception, Using Creation Teaching [message #7595 is a reply to message #7594 ] Sat, 25 December 2010 18:47 Go to previous message
Mark L is currently offline Mark L
Messages: 591
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada
Senior Member
Interesting website. I prefer of course to read science that doesn't challenge my ideas. Smile

I think that Aust fellow in 1980 is the one I heard. I didn't know that about his theory about light speed not being accepted by creationists. The argument made on J's page put paid to it too I guess. Its possible that the early universe had physical attributes that no longer apply. More energy for eg. with a faster speed of light. Gen 1 says he spent the whole day making it so it wasn't just instantaneous. Who knows! There is always someone who knows more about it so I don't speak too loudly

I don't hold to the 6000 yr old universe. I think it is about 50,000 yrs old and the flood occurred about 7000 bc. I don't get dogmatic about it though. Looking at the genealogies in the OT it is very difficult to come up with 6000 yrs. To do that Noah's grandchildren would be living in the time of Abraham, Noah's dad died the year of the flood and a lot of other stuff.

My personal disclaimer is that while I find this stuff interesting it is definitely peripheral.
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