Home » Discussion Area » Bible Issues » Salvation & Healing
| Salvation & Healing [message #5693] |
Fri, 08 May 2009 22:06  |
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 william
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James posted this in the Bulletin Board area:
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I AM THE LORD THAT HEALETH THEE...
Ps. 107 verses 17-19 speak of fools who because of their transgressions
and iniquities, are afflicted. But verse 20 reveals the LOVE of God,
because He sent Jesus(who is The Word...~John 1:1-2)and healed them.
" He sent His WORD, and healed them, and delivered them from their
destructions." ~Ps.107:20
"...Who HEALETH all thy diseases." ~Ps. 103:3b
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It is hard for any Christian to deny the importance of healing in the
Bible. That said, one can't help but notice that in our day there doesn't
seem to be any difference in the way the world seeks healing & health, and
the way Christians deal with these same issues.
Could it be that we are in doubt as to whether or not Jesus' compassion
extends to us in our time of need?
The Leper that Jesus healed seems to fall into this category. He doesn't
doubt Jesus' ability to heal, but he seems to question Jesus' willingness
to heal his disease, specifically.
Luk 5:12-14 And it came to pass, when he was in a certain city, behold a
man full of leprosy: who seeing Jesus fell on his face, and besought him,
saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
There is a odd (to my mind) passage in the OT that says that if the
leprosy breaks out over all of the body the priest can pronounce the
person cleansed:
Lev 13:12-13 And if a leprosy break out abroad in the skin, and the
leprosy cover all the skin of him that hath the plague from his head even
to his foot, wheresoever the priest looketh; Then the priest shall
consider: and, behold, if the leprosy have covered all his flesh, he shall
pronounce him clean that hath the plague: it is all turned white: he is
clean.
Anyway, I only mention the OT passage because it was an interesting
passage given that leprosy is oftentimes seen as a judgment from God and
that healing/cleansing could only come from God... it was incurable. I
think it still is incurable but there does seem to be a bit of confusion
over the disease.
Jesus goes on to give the leper instructions:
And he put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will: be thou clean.
And immediately the leprosy departed from him. And he charged him to tell
no man: but go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy
cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.
The last phrase "for a testimony unto them" (the priests), indicates that
the prevalent attitude toward God's willingness to heal might have been
similar to our modern day attitude that acknowledges God's ability, but
questions whether or not He is willing. Was this "testimony" to be an
indication to those who bore His Name, that God was still in the business
of maintaining His people and that His kingdom was again near?
Jesus leaves no doubt as to both His ability, and willingness to heal
those who were/are His.
Israel knew of God's covenant Name and that healing was promised to them
if they would obey & serve Him, but they focused upon the other promises,
namely His promise that they would one day be restored as His people on
this earth. We also embrace His promise of salvation, and the promise of
His kingdom, but tend to disassociate salvation (entrance into His
kingdom) from the other promises, namely His promise of healing.
Surely it would have been a great sign to them to witness Jesus going
about healing the sick, that God's kingdom was nigh at hand as well!
Later in the same chapter, Luke shows this relationship between healing
and forgiveness (for the promised kingdom) even more clearly lest those
who were watching Jesus heal multitudes of people miss the crucial point
that as God's children they were entitled to both, as long as they walked
in a forgiven state.
Luk 5:18-24 And, behold, men brought in a bed a man which was taken with
a palsy: and they sought means to bring him in, and to lay him before him.
And when they could not find by what way they might bring him in because
of the multitude, they went upon the housetop, and let him down through
the tiling with his couch into the midst before Jesus. And when he saw
their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee. And the
scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which
speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone? But when Jesus
perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in
your hearts? Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to
say, Rise up and walk? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power
upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say
unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
Blessings,
William
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| Re: Salvation & Healing [message #5698 is a reply to message #5693] |
Sat, 09 May 2009 00:33  |
james
Messages: 2137
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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William,
I'm thinking there are several reasons people refuse to appropriate the healing Jesus provided for them. One would be that they,( Christians ) aren't taught that healing is God's will for them...not divine healing; medical science? yes, but not God supernaturally. Or they're incorrectly taught that when The Bible speaks of healing, it means 'spiritual' healing, as in forgiveness of our sins.( although I can't see how someone can think that diseases are the same as sins.~Ps.103:3) Also people are preconditioned by everyone around them from birth, to run to the doctors, or take a pill or shot anytime the least little affection arises. People are afraid of pain, and it's that FEAR, that makes the drug companies rich beyond belief.
And the old argument about it being God's will concerning sickness, don't hold water, because if a person who claimed to be a Christian, thought it was God's will for them to be sick...really thought that...then they wouldn't be in line at the doctors office, trying to find healing at his hands.
Another biggie is, peer pressure...What will people think of me if I trust God, even though The Word of God promises it. They might kick me out of my 'religious circle'...
You know, almost all the promises of God remain unclaimed, by most of Christianity.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Salvation & Healing [message #5699 is a reply to message #5698] |
Sat, 09 May 2009 06:11 |
grandom
Messages: 404
Registered: October 2007 |
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| james wrote on Fri, 08 May 2009 19:33 |
You know, almost all the promises of God remain unclaimed, by most of Christianity.
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William
I hope it`s ok to jump back in here.
Your absolutely correct James.
Mar 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? I believe this scripture sums up what you said. It is my belief that unbelief in divine healing is because people haven't developed a relationship with Jesus. Oh they know about Him but they don't really know Him.
Jn10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. You have to know, really know that Jesus can be trusted and that He will do what He said He will do. The promises are there for all to see but unfortunately most have not totally surrendered their life to Christ. They want to be able to determine their own way.
It`s a very narrow way and few there be that find it. Find would indicate that there has to be a seeking, a genuine desire to know the Lord.
Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed by lack of knowledge.
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| Re: Salvation & Healing [message #5700 is a reply to message #5699] |
Sat, 09 May 2009 13:48 |
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william
Messages: 1451
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James says it is lack of teaching; GrandOm, a lack of relationship with
Jesus; I'm sure both of these things are true, but these reasons can't be
all of the problem... consider this:
You have examples in the Gospels that don't fit the mold. The man born
blind didn't have a relationship, or teaching:
Jn 9:25 He answered and said, Whether he be a sinner or no, I know not:
one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.
Another case, the man waiting at the Pool of Bethesda, didn't know Jesus
at all. He got a surprise healing! Jesus asked: "Wilt thou be made
whole?" and then told him to: "Rise, take up thy bed and walk!"
Later in Jn 5 it was said of the man: "And he that was healed wist not
who it was:".
I bring up these examples only to show that it is possible that other
reasons might be to blame (James said that there were probably many of
them!).
How about this one: Rm 10:14-15 How then shall they call on him in whom
they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they
have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall
they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the
feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of
good things!
The nagging question that keeps this good news about healing (and the rest
of the package deal!) from being spread abroad may lie within us... we
question whether or not we are sent. Let's face it, most of us haven't
had the blinding flash of light and the voice from heaven sending us as
laborers into the fields, so what do we do? Nothing. We wait.
"Waiting" can even be construed as a valid religious activity. After all,
we are taught not to get ahead of God! Moses waited a long time, as did
most of Israel; "waiting" is good.
Actually the theology of "waiting" takes all of the responsibility off of
us and puts it back onto God. Nothing is happening because God is doing
nothing... we are waiting on Him to start working again, and then, when He
sends us out with the message (you know, the message of healing and health
that we've been wanting to get out) it will be good... "you know we'll
have a good time then, dad, you know we'll have a good time then..."
Have you ever wondered why we were "taught" these things and not others?
There must be a reason.
I'm probably being overly sarcastic here in attempting to make a point,
but in reality we may need to shoulder some of the blame for the lack of
understanding displayed around us concerning these issues. As far as the
relationship thing brought up by Grandom, I'm not sure how we can teach
that beyond saying that it is necessary. Maybe that has to be more of a
personal kind of thing between the person and God.
Blessings,
William
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| Re: Salvation & Healing [message #5704 is a reply to message #5700] |
Sat, 09 May 2009 16:05 |
james
Messages: 2137
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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William,
I was looking at it as why 'Christians' didn't believe in divine healing...cause if Christians don't think it's for today, or the bible means something else when it speaks of healing(as in spiritual healing), or the pastors aren't teaching it in the churches today...then we know the unbelieving world sure don't believe it.
But I don't know what to do concerning the Christian or the non-believer, I'm not shy when it comes to sharing what I believe, here on the forum, or in my business( and yes, through the years my boldness has cost me clients, that's fine with me, at least they were told the truth by somebody). But I see what you're saying, it's sure been said before...but unless the anointing falls and we're empowered to be vessels to show forth God's power through the working of signs and wonders and miracles,(and even then God has to change the hearts) all I know to do is practice what I speak. I would be so humbled and blessed to have those around me come seeking to know The God I serve, instead of just viewing me as a strange believing man who don't do this and don't do that. I'm not far above a JW, Mormon, or Jim Jones follower to most of the people I share with.
I'm open to suggestions and I'm more than willing to admit the problem lies with us and not God. Maybe Grandom is right, we're just not set apart, yeilded, and humbled enough for The Holy Spirit to use us....yet.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Salvation & Healing [message #5705 is a reply to message #5703] |
Sat, 09 May 2009 16:16 |
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william
Messages: 1451
Registered: January 2006 |
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I agree, Grandom. We can only be that light and salt to those around us.
None of us (as far as I know!) have a worldwide ministry, but we all have
people around us who desperately need salvation and healing. Are we, as
Jesus put it, a "testimony" to them? Or have we hidden our lights, so to
speak.
I've mentioned it before, but in the early nineties I went to a leadership
conference and I came back with a conviction that we had not done much in
the way of reaching out to others. If we do think that we've been given
something extraordinary, do we not have the responsibility to spread the
good news? I realize that we can't do it until we have it settled in our
own minds what was truth and what was error, but come on, it's been twenty
or so years. Are we still that group of introverted disciples who walked
around fearing our own shadows? Are we still waiting, with the doors
locked, in the upper room? Have we grown at all over the years? (I'm
speaking generally here...) Have we not worked through some of the
controversial issues that plagued us? If so, do we now selfishly think
that these blessings were only for our own benefit?
Are we not in a similar situation as were the lepers of 2Kings 7:8-9:
And when these lepers came to the uttermost part of the camp, they went
into one tent, and did eat and drink, and carried thence silver, and gold,
and raiment, and went and hid it; and came again, and entered into another
tent, and carried thence also, and went and hid it. Then they said one to
another, We do not well: this day is a day of good tidings, and we hold
our peace: if we tarry till the morning light, some mischief will come
upon us: now therefore come, that we may go and tell the King's household.
Let's face it, most of the 5-fold leadership, the ones who should have
logically been the bearers of this great message, have woefully failed in
the mission... hasn't the mantle fallen upon us, the lepers of FA, to
spread the message?
I do think that you are right about us being able to teach the importance
of the personal relationship thing, but I don't think we can do it with
words. Our lives must be lived in such a way as to present to the world
that we have indeed "been with Jesus".
I've been reading the Gospel of Luke lately and I'm struck with the
overwhelming evidence that this Gospel was presented to the outcasts, the
lepers, the publicans, the women, those marginalized elements of
society... not the religious. These are the ones the Lord used to form
the foundation of His Church; these are the ones who spread the message to
all. We are these people! The weak, foolish, base and despised... Jesus
came to be with us... don't we have the obligation to tell those within
the camp what Jesus has done?
Blessings,
William
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| Re: Salvation & Healing [message #5706 is a reply to message #5704] |
Sat, 09 May 2009 16:35 |
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william
Messages: 1451
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Yes, I know I'm preaching to the choir, but maybe it will be a kick in the
pants to someone!
You mentioned "the anointing". This is a question that comes up whenever
a call to action is proclaimed... is there another anointing that we are
to wait for? We all know that Jesus sent out the disciples with healing
gifts and power over the unclean spirits. Are these verses to be
considered in the light of a specific call? We tend to speak as if the
whole Bible is to be taken as a book of promises, given to all of His
disciples, but then we act as if we are not one of the seventy.
I'm serious here... does this apply to us? Has he called all of us to go
out and heal the sick, cast out demons, even raise the dead? Or should our
position be that only those who are specifically designated as the
seventy, are to have this power? Are we waiting for an anointing, a specific
mobilization, to do this? Is there another anointing that is to come?
Blessings,
William
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[Updated on: Sat, 09 May 2009 16:40]
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| Re: Salvation & Healing [message #5723 is a reply to message #5706] |
Tue, 12 May 2009 00:45 |
grandom
Messages: 404
Registered: October 2007 |
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I have been doing a lot of thinking on this thread.
I wonder if were missing some thing really simple.
Jesus was in constant communication with the Father.
Jn 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
I wonder if instead of waiting for annointings or wondering if we are to do what Jesus did, should we not be seeking the Father as Jesus did?
Jn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Could this possibly be the solution to the seeking we are all
doing? I think all to often we Christians seek what we think God wants us to do without spending the time on our knees to see what He wants us personally to do. I remember hearing some one say that we have to be, before we can do.
Food for thought, at least for me that is.
Forever oh Lord, thy word is settled in heaven.
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| Re: Salvation & Healing [message #5727 is a reply to message #5725] |
Wed, 13 May 2009 11:59 |
james
Messages: 2137
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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Yes it would, we don't usually know what we've got til it's gone. I'm sorry to admit that many of us have fallen prey to being 'sayers' of the Word instead of 'doers' of the Word. We sit around discussing faith, holiness, godliness, the teachings of Christ, and Christian ethics; yet fail to live up to what we say. We spout off about the crucified life, being overcomers, going to reign and rule with Jesus, and say the right things(most of the time); but when any issue arises that would afford us the opportunity to see if these teaching are really in our hearts...too many fail miserably.
I can't see God pouring out His anointing and power on people who are just 'talking' a good game; and are just really spectators. We can critique the 'religious' world and point out their problems, but at what point do we get our houses in order? Have we got to STAY in the desert due to OUR unbelief and failure to make clean the inside of the cup?
Jesus said that God looketh upon the heart, we may be fooling those around us, and we maybe be fooling ourselves, but we'll never fool God, who judges all men and sees the additudes of the heart.
Sometimes I think there comes a place where we need to just shut up and DO IT.
Just my thoughts this morning, not putting anyone down or judging them...cause it most definitely applies to ME, how about you my friends?
God bless,
james
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Salvation & Healing [message #5731 is a reply to message #5727] |
Thu, 14 May 2009 00:58 |
JWBTI
Messages: 253
Registered: March 2007
Location: Ohio |
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William wrote:
(I've been reading the Gospel of Luke lately and I'm struck with the
overwhelming evidence that this Gospel was presented to the outcasts, the
lepers, the publicans, the women, those marginalized elements of
society... not the religious. These are the ones the Lord used to form
the foundation of His Church; these are the ones who spread the message to
all. We are these people! The weak, foolish, base and despised... Jesus
came to be with us... don't we have the obligation to tell those within
the camp what Jesus has done?)
Rons Reply:
I am so glad He choose us (The weak, foolish, base and despised)
Yes ! We do have a obligation to tell those within the camps….
Freely you have received……Freely give !
But……
We must have communication with God first to receive and to be,
before we can do and give. Just as Grandom and you all have stated.
Jesus fasted for 40 days and nights before His 1st message ! I wonder if
That should be a requirement for all Believers after Salvation!? Oh my !
Jesus knew the will of the Father thru communication with the Father !
William wrote:
(Yes, I know I'm preaching to the choir, but maybe it will be a kick in the
pants to someone!)
Rons Reply:
Yes you are ! But many times the choir isn’t paying attention, they have there
own agenda. Ouch ! Don’t kick so hard the next time.(smile)
William wrote:
(You mentioned "the anointing". This is a question that comes up whenever
a call to action is proclaimed... is there another anointing that we are
to wait for?)
Rons reply:
Acts 1 and 2 seems to be sufficient for the New Converts:
All tho, most are still waiting for some thing more ?
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Jh 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
What part of Power and Go do we not understand?! I wish I could answer that !
William wrote:
We all know that Jesus sent out the disciples with healing
gifts and power over the unclean spirits. Are these verses to be
considered in the light of a specific call? We tend to speak as if the
whole Bible is to be taken as a book of promises, given to all of His
disciples, but then we act as if we are not one of the seventy.
I'm serious here... does this apply to us? Has he called all of us to go
out and heal the sick, cast out demons, even raise the dead?
Rons Reply:
YES>>>>YES>>>>>YES>>>>>>YES !
William wrote:
Or should our
position be that only those who are specifically designated as the
seventy, are to have this power?
NO>>>>>>>>>>>>>
William wrote:
Are we waiting for an anointing, a specific
mobilization, to do this? Is there another anointing that is to come?)
Rons reply:
I don’t know what the future holds, I know that the Power that came forth in
Acts 1 & 2 was adequate for the time then and the time Now !
WHY ? Cause.....................
Jesus Christ IS, the Same, Yesterday, Today and Forever !
Ron
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| Re: Salvation & Healing [message #5733 is a reply to message #5731] |
Thu, 14 May 2009 02:30 |
JWBTI
Messages: 253
Registered: March 2007
Location: Ohio |
Senior Member |
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Mt 8:1-3,
1 When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes
followed him.
2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him,
The leper just heard the Sermon on the Mount and he came
And Worshiped Jesus ! I vision the leper on his face at the
Feet of Jesus, in the dirt,totally and fully submissive to
The One and only Lord God Almighty!
What is Worship ?
Reverent devotion and allegiance pledged to God; the rituals or
ceremonies by which this reverence is expressed. The English word
worship comes from the Old English word worthship, a word which
denotes the worthiness of the one receiving the special honor or
devotion. (from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary)
(Copyright (C) 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)
The leper knew what it was, He humbled himself before the
Almighty God and received what he asked for… Healing !
saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I
will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
I Believe that if we approach Jesus in this way,
That we come to Worship Him, in a humble attitude…..
Fully submissive to His Will and His Power.
He Will Heal us !
Ron
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