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Re: Bulletin Board [message #8140 is a reply to message #8124 ] Wed, 24 August 2011 06:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Location: Birmingham, AL
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Why me LORD?...


I find myself quite often in situations where I see people who profess Jesus as Lord and Saviour who seem so disinterested in the things of God. They don't even seem to care about talking about Jesus, but they will talk about their 'church' and all the social programs adnauseam. I was reading in Luke chapter 7 about the 'woman, which was a sinner'(verse37) and how she wept and washed Jesus' feet with those very tears, and dried His feet with the hair of her head and kissed His feet, and anointed His feet with an ointment. The answer Jesus gave the Pharisee who complained reveals SO much about people.

"Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven: for she loveth much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. "

Jesus forgave her sins and sent her on her way in peace...Think upon that! A clean slate, a fresh start, The Messiah received her worship and tears, He changed her life...forever!

I pray I never forget who I was and where I was headed and what He did for me (far too much to name, but most important He saved me) ; I may not know WHY (why me as opposed to someone I grew up with or family members), other than His great Love wherein He saved me, but I can and will show my appreciation by being ready, willing, and desirous to speak of His goodness and grace to all that will listen.


Kris Kristofferson wrote and sang a song called, "Why Me Lord?" it speaks of one who has come to see themself as lost and undone without Jesus and wonders 'why'. (I pray Kris has experienced this great grace given by The Lord unto salvation)

"Why Me Lord"

Why me Lord?

What have I ever done,

to deserve even one,

of the pleasures I've know,

Tell me Lord,

What did I ever do,

that was worth loving you,

for the kindness you've shown.


Lord help me Jesus

I've wasted it so help me Jesus

I know what I am,

but now that I know,

that I needed you so help me Jesus,

my souls in your hands.




"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8167 is a reply to message #8140 ] Thu, 01 September 2011 18:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
Messages: 1926
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Ever missed the mark? Sinned?...Encouragement from Micah...


"...do not my Words do good to him that walketh uprightly?" Micah 2:7c


"He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth The LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy GOD?" Micah 6:8


"Therefore I will look unto The LORD; I will wait for The God of my salvation: my God will hear me.

Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise; when I sit in darkness, The LORD shall be a light unto me.

I will bear the indignation of The LORD, because I have sinned against Him, until He plead my cause, and execute judgment for me: He will bring me forth to the light, and I shall behold His righteousness." Micah 7:7-9


"Who is a God like unto Thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of His heritage? He retaineth not His anger for ever, because He delighteth in MERCY." Micah 7:18


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8187 is a reply to message #8167 ] Tue, 06 September 2011 13:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
Messages: 1926
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A Day of Decision...

As I was thinking about 'The Mark of The Beast' and how it will play out in the future, I was wondering if it'll be a gradual thing where people are lulled into it without really knowing it or if it will be a clear and concise decision one must make. I believe it will be a choice that is clear to understand, though very few will chose to refuse it. This got me to thinking about the courage it takes for a person to stand up to the government, peer pressure, and traditional values and to examine my own heart. As I continued thinking along these lines I was reminded of a couple of times in my life where I had to make a decision that would shape and influence the rest of my life. Of course, first and foremost is the day I asked Jesus to grant me repentance, give me a new heart, forgive my sins, and become my Lord and Saviour.(June 1,1978)

Another important day in my life was July 1,1970; the day the United States of America assigned me number 59 for the military draft for Vietnam. This number determined the order men born in 1951 were to report for induction into the military.(#59 placed me in the first call-up group, there were 94,092 young 18-26 yr. old men inducted into the armed forces from that group)...I wasn't one of them.

I was suddenly faced with a huge decision, follow my conscience and go against everything my family and friends stood for and believed in(my dad and 3 uncles served in WWII, and I had 2 cousins already in Vietnam)or go participate in a war that, though I wasn't yet a Christian, I knew was against the teachings of Jesus.(not to mention both cousins who were already in Vietman had written me telling me it was a no win war and I should go to Canada if drafted)

I went to my local draft board and applied for I-O status(Conscientious Objector), with NO support from ANYONE, including my imediate family. The draft board refused my request and allowed me to appeal their decision to the State of Alabama Draft Board in Montgomery, Al. I was questioned repeatedly for quite some time by a bunch of veterans from WWI & WWII (me just a 19 yr.old kid, too afraid to show fear, yet inside very afraid) During the time between being turned down by the local board and the appeals date, I had mapped out a route to Canada (estimates say that there were about 70,000 draft evaders living in Canada by 1972) and was prepared to leave my country, family, and friends without a single clue as to what I would do once I arrived. But to my surprise I was granted I-O.

A few statistics I looked up on Vietman...58,272 Americans were killed in action in Vietnam, 303,644 were wounded, and 1,687 are still MIA. President Johnson said this to his Defense Secretary in 1965 after starting the "Rolling Thunder" bombing campaign, "I don't think anything is going to be as bad as losing, and I don't see any way of winning." Yet, the war continued for 10 more years...

There are people today who still look down upon me for that decision I made 41 years ago, I was challenged to fight over it, called a communist hippie, told I should leave America, and cursed out. Patriotism is a blinding spirit, and the vast majority of professing christians in this nation think that patriotism and christianity are one and the same. As I remember back how so many of my generation blindly accepted what the government, news media, the general public, and family said and thought...and proudly stepped forward to go serve a cause they thought to be just and godly(those that were mature enough to even think things through). Yet when they returned, if they returned, our nation got a whole generation of men who have spent the rest of their lives (a huge number of them) fighting depression, flashbacks, drug addiction, and guilt; still with questions as to why our leaders sent them into a no win situation and for what?

So anyway, back to the mark of the beast, it won't be an easy decision to make when the mark will be the only way to buy and sell, and survival has become the only thing of real importance, and everyone else is getting it,The Mark.(Rev.13:16-18)

I think that day will also be a very important day of decision...with eternal consequence.

I believe The Holy Spirit is admonishing/reminding/encouraging us to prepare now, while there's still time...We'll only stand by faith, anything counterfeit will be exposed, if you question whether or not your faith is genuine, pray for The Lord to show you now, while there's still time to repent and get it settled in your heart.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8188 is a reply to message #4564 ] Tue, 06 September 2011 14:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wishing34  is currently offline wishing34
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James I appreciate what you shared reference to Vietnam.
legit choice in my opinion.

I was a few years behind you - graduated high school in '72.

I received a high draft lottery number.

Had I received a low number I was going to enlist in the
navy or air force to avoid the jungles.

===================================

w/r the mark of the beast I always thought it would
include worshipping the antichrist so it would be
very obvious that it was denying Jesus - not subtle at all

Rev 14:9-11

---------------------


To me an interesting side question is how many among us would not
accept a computer chip under the skin or a computer type tatoo (invisible)
in order to buy/sell? Maybe in near future if the economy flops badly enough??

assume that there are no spiritual aspects to it - just a bank
debit card automated into a chip or tatoo

Myself I would have no problem with it since there is no antichrist,
false prophet, nor tribulation period yet - so it is not Rev 14 yet


jman
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8189 is a reply to message #8188 ] Tue, 06 September 2011 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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wishing34 wrote on Tue, 06 September 2011 14:07



To me an interesting side question is how many among us would not
accept a computer chip under the skin or a computer type tatoo (invisible)
in order to buy/sell? Maybe in near future if the economy flops badly enough??


assume that there are no spiritual aspects to it - just a bank
debit card automated into a chip or tatoo

Myself I would have no problem with it since there is no antichrist,
false prophet, nor tribulation period yet - so it is not Rev 14 yet


jman



I don't know 'how many among us ' would accept a computer chip under our skin or a invisible tatoo in order to buy/sell,

but I do know that I won't.

To make the assumption that there would be no spiritual ramifications just because the Antichrist and false prophet hasn't been exposed yet seems foolish, in my opinion. Not with the clear warning set forth in Revelation about 'the mark ' that is described so much like what you're speaking of, no way!

Also as an additional thought, 'could' it be that part of worshiping the beast and his image is to 'buy into' his deception? e.g. The solution to our collasped monetary system is the quick and easily swiped computer chip or tatoo, Wow! pure genius.

[Updated on: Tue, 06 September 2011 15:29]


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8191 is a reply to message #4564 ] Tue, 06 September 2011 18:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wishing34  is currently offline wishing34
Messages: 212
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Quote:

To make the assumption that there would be no spiritual ramifications just because

the Antichrist and false prophet hasn't been exposed yet seems foolish, in my opinion. Not

with the clear warning set forth in Revelation about 'the mark ' that is described so much

like what you're speaking of, no way!



Hi,
thanks for responding.

James, your response is why I thought it might be interesting.

Does not your response indicate a person could be lost for all
eternity for an innocent act? a deed, a work

Do you think it possible that Christians who
innocently take a bank tatoo on their arm - with no awareness of
any spiritual meaning - could be lost for eternity? - if later on
that tatoo is used by the antichrist monitary system?


That their salvation faith, covenant relationship is negated by an
action, a work ( taking a bank tatoo ) ?


The believer's security in Christ is much stronger than that.

It would be different if a person renounces Christ and worships the beast.

=========================================



I would go even further:

Say hypothetically in the trib a Christian is konked on the head
and the false prophet and antichrist personally give him the mark of the
beast while he is unconscious.

So he has the real mark of the beast.

He also still has his salvation faith and covenant relationship
with God. - because he did not renounce Christ nor worship the
beast.

So which prevails?

His covenant relationship in Christ (ie he is still saved)
or the mark on his arm ( a deed, a work).

I say he is still saved because he is still in covenant with God.

The meaty issue here is can salvation be lost by works.

--------------------------



In anticipation . . .




Works are only an indicator of a man's heart.

Hence in I john 1
no one who is born again 'practices' (Greek - repeated or ongoing action) sin
because their born again heart will not allow them to practice sin

works do not earn nor destroy righteous standing before
God - only the imputed righteousness of Jesus matters.

-------------

a person in the covenant of His blood is the righteousness of God
in God's sight.
<< even if he misses it and sins. But if he has a lifestyle of practicing
sin then that indicates he does not have a born again heart >>>


a person outside the covenant could do any good work - even give body to be burned -
and it profits him absolutely nothing as far as having right standing before God

Jman








Re: Bulletin Board [message #8193 is a reply to message #8189 ] Tue, 06 September 2011 19:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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On Tue, 6 Sep 2011, James wrote:

>
> I don't know 'how many among us ' would accept a computer chip under our skin or a invisible tatoo in order to buy/sell,
>
> but I do know that I won't.
>
> To make the assumption that there would be no spiritual ramifications just because the Antichrist and false prophet hasn't been exposed yet seems foolish, in my opinion. Not with the clear warning set forth in Revelation about 'the mark ' that is described so much like what you're speaking of, no way!
>
>

<grin>

My mind agrees with jman but in practice I think I'd be with James!


I want to believe!
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8195 is a reply to message #8193 ] Tue, 06 September 2011 19:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Location: Louisville, Ky area
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Oh no!!!!

I just had a chip put into my new Yorkie!. Shocked Laughing

However, I must admit, it did give me the creeps! Rolling Eyes


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8196 is a reply to message #8191 ] Tue, 06 September 2011 20:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Interesting thoughts there Jman but have you taken it to another level?

What about applying what you've just set forth to the other thread on divine healing?

Can one safely rely on God to feed and provide without taking 'the mark'? I don't think there will be a special anointing during tribulation that will be an affirmation that He will provide. Or should such a person just go ahead and refuse to take the mark at the risk of allowing his family to starve to death or worse be martyred.

Not at all trying to be contentious mind you but I'm genuinely interested in seeing how these two positions can co-exist in your thinking.

None of us have a guarantee that we will avert disaster by yielding to the arm of the flesh but we do know that there is ample evidence (you admitted as much in the other thread) that God says that He is both the healer and deliverer of those who put their trust in Him. Crazy as it may seem, I would rather trust in His Words even if it means that the consequences don't look favorable in the present-natural-realm.

The message that Jesus constantly drummed into His disciples--the message of total trust in God--seems designed to highlight the fact that He is worthy of our trust and confidence.

Is it possible that God has designed all of our trials to be a continuation of the message that Jesus presents in the Gospel?

Maybe He wants us to look at the two alternatives --trusting God or trusting man --and decide who we are going to follow --especially given the fact that this very test is front and center for those unlucky (<grin>) enough to be found in the middle of tribulation.

Blessings,
William

[Updated on: Tue, 06 September 2011 20:09]


I want to believe!
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8197 is a reply to message #8191 ] Tue, 06 September 2011 20:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Quote:

a person in the covenant of His blood is the righteousness of God
in God's sight.
<< even if he misses it and sins. But if he has a lifestyle of practicing
sin then that indicates he does not have a born again heart >>>


a person outside the covenant could do any good work - even give body to be burned -
and it profits him absolutely nothing as far as having right standing before God...


Taking the mark is a work... it's just one sin... it may be built on a lifetime of trusting in man's wisdom but the consequences are eternal.

This of course would be an easy argument for those who don't believe that there will be any Christians in tribulation (i.e. all of the covenant people will have already taken flight!) but for someone who believes that this is a real choice that will be faced by real Christians it is a toughie.

Jesus had choices during His time of temptations/trials and unless we believe those temptations were not really real then we must conclude that we too will face choices that will not be accompanied by the goose bumps of an anointing. It is in those times we learn whether or not we really do believe God or we find out that our 'faith' is not really faith at all.

If our faith is dependent upon some other kind of evidence (i.e. the anointing, the fact that others are getting healed, etc.) then it isn't true faith. Now is the best time to find that out though... while there is still time to 'do' something about it!

Blessings,
William


I want to believe!
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8198 is a reply to message #8197 ] Tue, 06 September 2011 20:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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moulder wrote on Tue, 06 September 2011 20:34


This of course would be an easy argument for those who don't believe that there will be any Christians in tribulation (i.e. all of the covenant people will have already taken flight!) but for someone who believes that this is a real choice that will be faced by real Christians it is a toughie.


Yes there are many who believe all Christians will be gone during the times of tribulation, and there are many more who believe the church is going through tribulations. I know some very sincere Christians who are preparing for the tribulations through storing up of goods and becoming self-sufficient, others in the harlot church system are in lala land thinking they will be caught up in the rapture. There will be bookoos of Christians who go through the tribulation period as well as those who are saved during that time.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8199 is a reply to message #8191 ] Tue, 06 September 2011 20:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Quote:

I would go even further:

Say hypothetically in the trib a Christian is konked on the head
and the false prophet and antichrist personally give him the mark of the
beast while he is unconscious.

So he has the real mark of the beast.

He also still has his salvation faith and covenant relationship
with God. - because he did not renounce Christ nor worship the
beast.

So which prevails?

His covenant relationship in Christ (ie he is still saved)
or the mark on his arm ( a deed, a work).

I say he is still saved because he is still in covenant with God.

The meaty issue here is can salvation be lost by works.


The point is valid, and I've always argued that a person must make a conscience decision to take the mark but do you not think that there will be situations where people will choose the mark in order to be able to 'buy and sell' while telling themselves that they have no intentions of worshiping the beast? I do, and I believe the end result will be the same as if they had gotten down on their knees and sworn allegiance to the beast.

In other words they are being tested on whether or not they will choose to trust God for their material needs (healing of their bodies included) or whether they will take the easy way out.

Which, by the way, is exactly what was taught 30 years or so ago.

Blessings,
William

[Updated on: Tue, 06 September 2011 21:00]


I want to believe!
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8200 is a reply to message #8198 ] Tue, 06 September 2011 21:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Quote:

Yes there are many who believe all Christians will be gone during the times of tribulation, and there are many more who believe the church is going through tribulations. I know some very sincere Christians who are preparing for the tribulations through storing up of goods and becoming self-sufficient, others in the harlot church system are in lala land thinking they will be caught up in the rapture. There will be bookoos of Christians who go through the tribulation period as well as those who are saved during that time.


Right James... I had forgotten about the other group --the ones who think that we all will go through the great tribulation-- that group will no doubt be telling us that we should be working overtime to stock those pantry shelves and leave the development of our faith to a more convenient time!

Blessings,
William


I want to believe!
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8201 is a reply to message #8200 ] Tue, 06 September 2011 21:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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My heart goes out to 'that' group (post-trib), many of them that I observe (especially reading their thoughts on their forum) have a deep love for the things of God, truth and holiness, yet show little understanding about walking by faith. Maybe they'll have time to grow in faith and receive some of the truths they reject...walking in total trust in God, divine healing, nonresistance, the rapture of the overcomers, ect. I just pray they receive it before too late, for then they will indeed go through the times of great tribulation, and without faith already present it'll be very hard for them to stand.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8250 is a reply to message #8201 ] Tue, 13 September 2011 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Where IS the Good Way?


I don't know much within myself, my only confidence and assurance comes from God and His Word. I know that sounds so pious and humble, but the longer I live I see just how stupid the wisdom of man is. It is SO easy to allow logic and reasoning to influence what Christians 'believe', there IS an easier path that doesn't require faith and it's easily identified, it's the one almost everyone is on. But is it the right way? What does it cost to travel on this pathway?


In Jeremiah 6:16 GOD spoke these words; "Thus saith The LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and WALK therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls...But they said, We will not walk therein."


In chapter 17 and verses 14 Jeremiah says; "Heal me O LORD, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for Thou art my praise." And in verses 19&20 he says: "Thus said The LORD unto me; Go, and stand in the gate of the children of the people, whereby the kings of Judah come in, and by the which they go out, and in all the gates of Jerusalem; And say unto them, Hear ye the Word of The LORD, ye kings of Judah, and all Judah, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, that enter in by thesae gates:" Jeremiah 17:14,19&20


IF, one finds themself on the wrong path(remember, broad is the way that leadeth to destruction...and many are on it...Matt.7:13-14 but the 'good' strait gate/way/path is narrow and has a cost to travel on...but it leads to LIFE.) repent, turn back to your/my/ours first LOVE, Jesus Christ...with ALL your heart. He will forgive, restore, and receive you unto Himself, just settle it once and for all that He is who He said He is, deny yourself, take up your cross and follow Him.

I'm not Jeremiah (I couldn't even truely identify with the burden he carried for God's people, much less have a testimony of the life he lived), yet God's Word remains the same, yesterday, today, and for ever and we ARE in the last days/end-times and Satan is in full attack against the remnant(he has the majority of Christendom right where he wants them, caught up in religion and traditions of man); the only promise of security and entering into HIS rest is for those who OVERCOME ; overcoming requires obedience and faith...

The old paths, the good way...may we remember and seek, get on, and STAY on, that strait and narrow way is my hearts cry.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8260 is a reply to message #8250 ] Fri, 16 September 2011 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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The Calling, Anointing, Commissioning, and Validation of a TRUE Prophet...

Ezekiel


"And HE said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee." ...Called...

"And The Spirit entered into me when He spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard Him that spake unto me."...Anointed...

"And He said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, even unto this very day."...Commissioned...

"For they are impudent children and stiffhearted. I do send thee unto them; and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith The LORD GOD."

"And they, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear, (for they are a rebellious house,) yet shall know there hath been a prophet among them." ...Validated...

Ezekiel 2:1-5


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8290 is a reply to message #8260 ] Wed, 21 September 2011 07:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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The Fear of The LORD...do we really have it?


"The fear of The LORD IS the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction." Proverbs 1:7

"The fear of The LORD IS the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of The Holy IS understanding." Proverbs 9:10

"Serve The LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling." Psalms 2:11

"Fear ye not Me? saith The LORD: will ye not tremble at my presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it: and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?" Jeremiah 5:22

"There is no fear of GOD before their eyes." Romans 3:18

"Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve GOD acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our GOD is a consuming fire." Hebrews 12:28-29


Modern day Christians have lost (if they ever had it) their fear of The LORD; they've been taught Jesus is our 'buddy', our best friend, some today regard Him as their 'lover'(feel as though I should go wash my hands). He is there for us when we 'need' Him (kind of like a 'get out of jail free card'), His teachings and commandments are optional (after all, cultures and societies change and that that applied in the OT is under the Blood and what the NT says is subject to personal interpretation).

Even amongest ourselves, can we honestly say we have a Godly fear (that means a healthy, non-tormented, peace in our hearts yet knowing who God is and remembering His Holiness and Righteousness and His intolerance of sin and disobedience)? Looking at my own life there's no way I have always had the proper fear of The LORD, if I had I wouldn't have made some of the decisions I've made. He instructs us that godly fear brings wisdom and knowledge; maybe that's why so many 'sheep' wander around without ever really grasping the full message of The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Could it be that because of disobedience (due to not having the proper FEAR of The LORD) most of the 'church system of man' are just going through the motions of following The Lord, not worried about their actions because they're taught to just say a prayer with good intentions and God understands, all's well? I can't find that mentality found in the Bible in reference to disciples/followers/born again believers of Jesus. Lack of fear of God lead Ananias and Sapphira to lie to The Holy Ghost and cost them their lives.

Does a lack of fear of The LORD result in one putting off obedience to God's commandments? Does a lack of fear of God cause us to think we can pick and chose when and where we will finally start believing His Word with actions proving it? Do we walk around all day carrying a step-ladder so we can climb down from 'our cross' at our chosing(that making the assumption one is on the cross), then scamper back up with it fits our notion?

Peter wrote: "Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear GOD. Honor the king." I Peter 2:17

Jude wrote: "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." Jude 3


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8301 is a reply to message #8290 ] Sun, 25 September 2011 09:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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The Most Sobering Question...What does it profit?

"And when He had called the people unto Him with His disciples also, He said unto them,

Whosoever will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for My sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul
?
" Mark 8:34-37


There's not a professing Christian alive who wouldn't answer this question by saying there's nothing we can give in exchange for our souls, that there's nothing important enough that we would give up our salvation in order to gain it. Yet, if we're honest, there's not a one of us who hasn't at one time or another been guilty of placing 'something'(the whole world, or something of the world) in front of obedience to Jesus...Then, justified ourselves (to ourselves...which is a form of deception) saying whatever we(our flesh) want to hear to soothe over our consciences(which leads to a hardened heart, unable to any longer to hear The Lord speaking and convicting).

Habitual disobedience leads one to a place of denial and self justification. A person still confesses Jesus as Lord, they still go through the motions of religion, but they are in deception, blinded by hardening their hearts to obedience of what Jesus taught. Justifying our actions to ourselves, under the guise of "I'm free"; or "my heart doesn't bear witness to that as truth"; can only result in one one day finding themselves being told, "I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:23)


What could possibly be more important than our souls? Do our actions reflect that we fully understand the ramifications of not grasping this most important truth?

[Updated on: Sun, 25 September 2011 10:48]


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8309 is a reply to message #8301 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 06:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Rejoice...


rejoice: feel great joy; be glad. ~Oxford American Dictionary


"But let ALL those that put their trust in Thee rejoice: let them ever shout for joy,

because Thou defendest them: let them also that love Thy name be joyful in Thee." Psalms 5:11


Do you put your trust in Jesus? REJOICE

Do you love His Name? Be JOYFUL

Need strength? "...for the joy of The LORD is your strength." Nehemiah 8:10

Are you His? " These things have I spoken unto you, that MY JOY might remain in you, and that your JOY might be full." John 15:11


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8323 is a reply to message #8309 ] Sat, 08 October 2011 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Snares...


"And the servant of The LORD must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."
II Timothy 2:24-26


What is a snare? Strong's Concordance defines a snare as a trap; a trick or temptation. Oxford's American Desk Dictionary agrees and adds, ensnare; lure or trap.

These scriptures could easily be made into a series of teachings centering on our responsibilities as SERVANTS of The Lord; or about "those that oppose themselves"; or the responsibility people have in repentance and walking out their OWN salvation ["recover themselves"]; or there could be undertaken the daunting task of making a list of "snares" and how to escape them; as well as answering the question the last verse raises, which is, how are people taken captive by Satan "at his will "?

And while pointing out other's problems is easier than confronting our own, never-the-less we're instructed back a few verses in II Tim.2:15 to 'study to shew ourselves approved unto God...so we won't be ashamed and we will be able to rightly divide[understand/interpret] The WORD of Truth.' And how can one [us,we,i] possibily teach and instruct those that oppose themselves without having spent substantial time before The Lord and in His Word?

And here enters the catch-22, if we who are calling ourselves 'the church' or 'the body' or 'the bride' or 'the called out ones', or 'overcomers' are opposing ourselves due to being caught in Satans SNARES, how can we fullfill our calling to dupilcate the ministry of Jesus Christ? No power? No anointing? No gifts? No joy? No victory? No holiness? No walking in the promises?

I believe that the denominational church system of man (better known as the Harlot Church) is one of the biggest,(if not the biggest) most effective, SNARES Satan has. The world already is in his pocket,(yes, they have been ensnared by him, just in different ways) but where he is concentrating his efforts in the last days is in 'the church '. Yes he's using heresies, false doctrines, false prophets, apostles, teachers, but he's also using the ever so powerful traditions of religious man. And I believe that it's the dogmatic holding on to those made-made doctrines, traditions, and delusions that cause blindness to 'the church', resulting in the opposing of themselves. Snared, powerless, bound for hell; and not even aware of it. Matthew 7:21-23

May those to whom light has been given (and eyes opened) be bold as lions to proclaim the True Gospel of Jesus Christ, to separate ourselves of the Harlot Church System of man-made religion and embrace our calling...to set free the captives.

Some will hear, some will repent and embrace the truth...but not unless they are told. What is the cry of our hearts? I pray it's, "Yes, LORD...Yes, use me!"


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8334 is a reply to message #8323 ] Tue, 11 October 2011 17:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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"The Crucified Ones"...

This is the title of another book written by Charles E Newbold Jr. and if I didn't know better I'd have thought Hobart E Freeman wrote most of it. Maybe Charles has read "Deeper Life", or maybe The Holy Spirit inspired both of them to write these books.


Here is an excerpt from the book, "The Crucified Ones".

(Speaking of true born-again followers of Christ who have drank from THE Living Water and have denied themselves, taken up their crosses, and are daily dying to SELF )...

"They do not need to be prompted to praise and worship, to pray, to fast, to give, to respond to all that is demanded by The Spirit.

They do not need to run to this seminar on healing or that workshop on deliverance. They will not have to buy all those books and tapes on 'How to this' and 'How to that'.

They will not have to try to grasp the promises of God in their lives through endless incantations of faith confessions.

The Kingdom of God is within them. The Word of God is within them.

...The promises of God are within them and cannot be attainted by grasping outwardly for them."



I've not finished the whole book yet, but so far based on what I've read and has been witnessed to in my spirit, the answers to the questions and struggles many seem to be having can be found within the principles and scriptures used and expounded upon in this book. (obviously, just like the book it's based upon <The Bible>, one has to READ it and put into pratice the instructions and teachings...but then, "Deeper Life in The Spirit" was saying the same thing 35 years ago and many have never grasped those truths.)

OR, people can continue to struggle, question, and wrestle with FAITH and obedience to God for the next 20 years, it's a choice one has to make.

If anyone is interested in reading this book, it's free to read and I promise not to ask anyone to discuss it... Embarassed

http://www.christineboudreau.ca/newbold/or/crucified/crucifi edtoc.html

[Updated on: Tue, 11 October 2011 22:06]


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8342 is a reply to message #8334 ] Thu, 13 October 2011 09:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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DYING TO SELF...


"When you are forgotten, or negected, or purposely set at naught,

and you don't sting and hurt with the insult or the oversight,

but your heart is happy, being counted worthy to suffer for Christ,

THAT IS DYING TO SELF...


When your good is evil spoken of, when your wishes are crossed,

your advice disregarded, your opinions ridiculed,

and you refuse to let anger rise in your heart, or even defend yourself,

but take it all in patient, loving silence,

THAT IS DYING TO SELF...


When you can receive correction and reproof from one of less

stature than yourself and can humbly submit inwardly as well as outwardly,

finding no rebellion or resentment rising up within your heart,

THAT IS DYING TO SELF..."


Part of a poem based on Philippians 3:10


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8375 is a reply to message #8342 ] Fri, 21 October 2011 11:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Wiles of the devil...

"Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil." Ephesians 6:11


wile: stratagem; trick or cunning procedure. lure or entice.



Something has been heavy on my heart for the last several weeks concerning the conclusion some here have came to about medical science and drugs as the, or 'a', acceptable solution to sickness and disease. I want to share this not to demean anyone or speak down, but to hopefully cause a re-examination of where their reasoning has taken them, and possibly why and how.

Cancer is probably one of the most widely known and spoken of sickness, just look at all the fund raisers for breast cancer(everywhere you look people wearing something 'pink'), or the theme of the ads during the World Series, "Stand Up 2 Cancer", or all the money being spent on research looking for cures for all the various types of cancer. And the cost of the drugs to the patient once they are put on the market are astronomical, making the drug companies literally Billions of dollars. It's BIG BUSINESS; does it affect millions of people? Absolutely. And it's horrible and devastating, we know that, but cancer is a spirit, how can Christians believe that you can defeat a spirit by cutting it or feeding it drugs?

Because, I believe, Satan has deceived people into believing it. It is one of his MANY wiles, but we're to be wise to his various cunning plans and schemes. That's why we're admonished over and over throughout The Word of God to be prepared at all times because he, Satan, goes about as a roaring lion seeking to devour us. We can't withstand or defeat him by walking in the power of our own reasoning (the flesh), the battle is spiritual and the only way to overcome him is by walking in The Spirit and praying always, in The Spirit...putting on the whole armour of God..."that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day..." Eph.6:13

It's not given unto us the option following after our 'own hearts', or to defend our actions by saying "it's between me and The Lord", with every man doing what seems right in his own eyes,(not if we really are OVERCOMERS). That's how umpteen hundred different denominations came into existence. Yes, we will be judged based on our own actions and decisions, but anything that leads to anything besides total submission and obedience to Jesus and His teachings(which results in FAITH) is another of the devil's wiles. Jesus promised The Comforter(The Holy Spirit)would teach us all things and be with us; but He doesn't contradict Himself by telling one person one thing is truth and another something totally different from that.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8376 is a reply to message #8375 ] Fri, 21 October 2011 13:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Hi James,

First of all let me say that I agree with your post except for this:
Quote:

Something has been heavy on my heart for the last several weeks concerning the conclusion some here have came to about medical science and drugs as the, or 'a', acceptable solution to sickness and disease.


Nothing has changed concerning the obvious fact that Satan is the author of all sickness -- including cancer.

Next, and I think that I speak for the others in the Medical Science thread, the emphasis has not been to 'approve' medical science so that the Christian now has an alternative to faith in God. As Christians we should trust God for everything including our health.

Hopefully we all have learned to trust in God for our healing without resorting to the arm of the flesh which is a very poor substitute for anyone seeking healing.

The purpose of the thread (at least as far as my participation was concerned) was to explore the single issue of whether or not medical science (including drugs) was always occultic in nature. That was the teaching we heard and while there is no need to re-hash all of the problems associated with that teaching there are good reasons (see the thread) as to why this teaching needed to be re-examined.

You bowed out of the thread (and I respect your reasons) but there is no doubt in my mind that this single issue isn't sacrosanct to the point where an examination of the teaching imperils one's faith.

One could argue that a baby doesn't need to know why they are told never to cross the road. Just obey, they are told, but as that child grows he should be able to comprehend the reasons for the absolute prohibition and adjust his behavior accordingly. Now that analogy breaks down when applied to this particular subject because 'crossing the street' can never be equated to 'bowing down to other gods' as it was presented to us, but the analogy can and does fit when we are talking about legitimate questions about those things we heard.

I suspect that it is the issue of "holding fast the things we were taught" and the dangers involved in anything less than unquestioning obedience that is foremost in your thinking here (correct me if I'm wrong) but I don't see discussing this issue as the 'slippery slope' that will lead to an 'evil heart of unbelief' kind of situation. If it does have that effect it only proves that there is something much more fundamentally wrong with a person's faith and the sooner it is revealed -- whether it is because of this particular subject or something else -- the better. You cannot force one to 'believe' but you can 'force' (in a manner of speaking) a person by using the threat that their behavior is synonymous with apostasy.

A lack of faith can be overcome by teaching the Word of God (Rom 10:17); the one who has, even if it is in his own mind, committed apostasy, doesn't even believe that he has hope. Surely you can see that?

Teach faith in God for healing but don't teach something that will at best keep people from crossing the street but at worse, be a vehicle for the destruction of a persons relationship with the author of their salvation--Jesus..

Blessings,
William

[Updated on: Fri, 21 October 2011 19:53]


I want to believe!
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8377 is a reply to message #8376 ] Fri, 21 October 2011 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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moulder wrote on Fri, 21 October 2011 13:52

Hi James,

First of all let me say that I agree with your post except for this:
Quote:

Something has been heavy on my heart for the last several weeks concerning the conclusion some here have came to about medical science and drugs as the, or 'a', acceptable solution to sickness and disease.


It's no problem that you disagree with that statement, never-the-less, it still saddens and grieves my heart.

Nothing has changed concerning the obvious fact that Satan is the author of all sickness -- including cancer.

Next, and I think that I speak for the others in the Medical Science thread, the emphasis has not been to 'approve' medical science so that the Christian now has an alternative to faith in God. As Christians we should trust God for everything including our health.

Hopefully we all have learned to trust in God for our healing without resorting to the arm of the flesh which is a very poor substitute for anyone seeking healing.

The purpose of the thread (at least as far as my participation was concerned) was to explore the single issue of whether or not medical science (including drugs) was always occultic in nature. That was the teaching we heard and while there is no need to re-hash all of the problems associated with that teaching there are good reasons (see the thread) as to why this teaching needed to be re-examined.

You bowed out of the thread (and I respect your reasons) but there is no doubt in my mind that this single issue isn't sacrosanct to the point where an examination of the teaching imperils one's faith.

I 'bowed out' because I gave my word that if the other participants would continue their discussions I'd withold comments...I sure wouldn't have encouraged the continuation if I thought for one second that it 'imperils one's faith'. I'm not grieved or concerned with people questioning what and why they 'believe' something, I'm grieved with the expressed conclusions.(and NO, not yours.)

One could argue that a baby doesn't need to know why they are told never to cross the road. Just obey, they are told, but as that child grows he should be able to comprehend the reasons for the absolute prohibition and adjust his behavior accordingly. Now that analogy breaks down when applied to this particular subject because 'crossing the street' can never be equated to 'bowing down to other gods' as it was presented to us, but the analogy can and does fit when we are talking about legitimate questions about those things we heard.

I suspect that it is the issue of "holding fast the things we were taught" and the dangers involved in anything less that unquestioning obedience that is foremost in your thinking here (correct me if I'm wrong) but I don't see discussing this issue as the 'slippery slope' that will lead to an 'evil heart of unbelief' kind of situation. If it does have that effect it only proves that there is something much more fundamentally wrong with a person's faith and the sooner it is revealed -- whether it is because of this particular subject or something else -- the better. You cannot force one to 'believe' but you can 'force' (in a manner of speaking) a person by using the threat that their behavior is synonymous with apostasy.

A lack of faith can be overcome by teaching the Word of God (Rom 10:17); the one who has, even if it is in his own mind, committed apostasy, doesn't even believe that he has hope. Surely you can see that?

Teach faith in God for healing but don't teach something that will at best keep people from crossing the street but at worse, be a vehicle for the destruction of a persons relationship with the author of their salvation--Jesus..

IF, by saying what I've said here (or anywhere else for that matter), I'm "teaching something that will at best keep people from crossing the street but at worse, be a vehicle for destruction of a persons relationship with the author of their salvation--Jesus.." would others on this forum PLEASE step forward and voice your concerns by telling me how I'm doing so. <am I misunderstanding your comment?>I want to be teachable and humble, and I'm sure not above correction. Please don't be shy, I really, really want to know what others think.

Blessings,
William



"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8378 is a reply to message #8377 ] Fri, 21 October 2011 17:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Quote:

IF, by saying what I've said here (or anywhere else for that matter), I'm "teaching something that will at best keep people from crossing the street but at worse, be a vehicle for destruction of a persons relationship with the author of their salvation--Jesus.." would others on this forum PLEASE step forward and voice your concerns by telling me how I'm doing so. <am I misunderstanding your comment?>I want to be teachable and humble, and I'm sure not above correction. Please don't be shy, I really, really want to know what others think.


No, I don't believe you have, but this is an open forum and many (some?) may still think that way -- I did at one time because I believed that it *was* occultic and choosing that route could indeed have eternal consequences. It is a fact that people have condemned themselves over this issue in the past and I believe that it should be addressed.

Blessings,
William


I want to believe!
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8379 is a reply to message #8378 ] Fri, 21 October 2011 20:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Sorry I was so short in the last note (Fridays are date nights around here and everything else is secondary to that!)<grin>

You should jump back into the thread, we won't consider you as going back on your word since you weren't the reason for the lag anyway. I'm pretty sure we all have obligations elsewhere so when there is a lag in the discussions it doesn't mean we've been offended. (We all are overcomers, right?)

There is more I'd like to say concerning this subject so don't think that all that's been said is all there is to say. Also, just because a couple of us have 'concluded' something doesn't mean the issue is 'concluded'! <grin>

I believe that drugs/medical science are going to play a big part in end-time events, especially as it relates to the enslavement of the people of our nation. Doctoring is no longer --"take two aspirin and see me in the morning", it's "take this $200 dollar prescription for the rest of your life... you can't expect to live without it". You'll either need to pay through the nose for insurance or pay it directly to the druggist... either option will eventually be so costly that the average person will find that they are nothing more than slaves to the powerful interests that traffic in the souls of men.

Come on back in, James. The water is just now getting warm!

Blessings,
William

[Updated on: Fri, 21 October 2011 20:31]


I want to believe!
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8387 is a reply to message #8379 ] Sat, 22 October 2011 11:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Amen!!!!

I still ain't mad either! Smile


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8395 is a reply to message #8379 ] Sat, 22 October 2011 18:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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moulder wrote on Fri, 21 October 2011 20:30


Come on back in, James. The water is just now getting warm!

Blessings,
William



Well I'm kinda concerned about getting into you all's "warm water", what with all the talk about p****** people off and throwing pizza at people.(is that a Indiana thing? Nobody ever threw pizza at me here in Alabama) I started to say something this morning but I couldn't get my 'armour' to fit just right, and I wasn't about to put myself in the middle of all that without proper protection. btw: when I get up 'on the wrong side of the bed', I get back in and start over, on the other side.<grin>

Private tailgate party? Are you serious? 45-10, good thing I didn't eat before the game, I'd probably have lost it. That was a good old fashion beating.


Seriously, if that's possible today, if we're truely concerned with wanting others to participate in these discusions about what-ever-it-is-exactly that's being discussed (divine healing...every time...no exceptions, are drugs occult, is caffeine bad, ect.) maybe it'd be good if they could see some semblance of love between folks, instead of people wearing their feelings on their sleeves.

Yeah, I am glad to see Sue posting again...I PMed her earlier today. Hopefully she'll find time to more often.





"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8400 is a reply to message #8395 ] Sun, 23 October 2011 15:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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"...maybe it'd be good if they could see some semblance of love between folks, instead of people wearing their feelings on their sleeves."

James, I honestly have not seen any of that going on here at OO. It is nothing like it used to be, anyway.

It is a serious subject that has touched all of us in very personal ways. I see nothing wrong with keeping it light on occasions in order to keep the thread going.

Overcomers have to have thick skins. I never did understand why you felt like you had to drop out of the conversation, buy that was you and not me. Everyone has their reasons. Personally, I am not going to retreat if someone does not agree with me. I might take time to think and study, but retreat, forget it!

My mentioning throwing pizza was suppose to a joke. I could have responded in other ways. I could have worn a lot on my sleeve, but chose not to. It does not serve a purpose except to divide and hurt those we should love the most. We need to be giving each other more breaks and think the best.

I will not walk on eggshells before my brothers and sisters. I refuse to do that. If you can't love me for who I am, than what good is OO? It destroyed FA.

I love feeling the warm and fuzzies from people, but peoples reactions to me, or my beliefs, will not help me with my own personal 100% beliefs for my faith.

I was shunned for years by FA. It was years of hurt, anger and misunderstanding that vaulted me into years of confusion. I left family and friends to attend FA for twelve years just to be rejected in the end. Everyone involved in that situation have matured and have gone on to bigger and better things that God has for them. I hold no grudges or bitterness. I slung self-rightousness myself for years. Love is the highest calling in the end. I am so blessed to know so many people who deeply love and who are seeking God. That is all that matters.

I also have people who would love to get their hands on me and murder me and my family as we speak. I practically have no family. They don't even pick up their phone due to what I believe. And yet, I have a peace that passes all understanding. My heart is full and my worship is sweet and full of tears of joy.

Do you really think some comments, that may seem petty without really seeing the person in the flesh for facial expressions, are going to raise my feathers now? Hardly, my friend.

I love you in Jesus, James. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers. However, I ain't going anywhere due to petty misunderstandings. I need OO and I am so grateful for it.






[Updated on: Sun, 23 October 2011 17:50]


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8401 is a reply to message #8400 ] Sun, 23 October 2011 16:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I sometimes just want to...................................Praise The Lord. Smile

Gillyann I wuz trying to (in a not so serious way) say to William and Grandom that maybe they should adjust their additudes...without chiding or sounding self-righteous. Don't worry about my feathers being ruffled, this bird is dead to what anyone can say. I absolutely, positively, categorically, unconditionally, give you my word that I DID NOT retreat from that thread...First I gave my word that if ya'll would continue, I'd withold comment...as to now, I've ran out of scriptures and admonishments and I see nothing gained by giving my opinions on if I consider caffeine a drug or if I think vitamins are OK to take.(not making light of what ya'll are discussing, it's just settled in my heart and I don't see where what I've think is revelant to anyone but me.)

I knew the comment about throwing pizza was made in fun...my comment back was made in fun...I just haven't ever heard of throwing pizza...eggs, yes; and even tomatoes. The sleeve comment was directed to the guys 100%, wasn't even thinking of you in any way...sorry. btw: I don't think I've heard the egg-shells reference either...must be cause I'm from de south. But believe me, we got plenty of saying that don't make sense either.

If I read something that I feel I can contribute to the conversation on, I will jump right in. Considering the volume of posts I make and the content of 'most' of them, I would have thought you would know by now that I'm not shy about giving my thoughts...but that's what I get for 'thinking'. Rolling Eyes

My convictions about divine healing and health are obviously not shared by everyone(not that I have ALL the answers and see 100% manifestations in this area everytime)...but I'm not a debater by nature, nor do I enjoy arguing.

I'm also sure that there are some inconsistencies in my application of my convictions...I run across them from time to time and have tried to seek The Lord for wisdom and direction when I do. It's easy to draw line in the sand; it's much harder to not cross it.(or paint ones self into a corner) Smile

Just take 2 'chill' pills and see how you feel in the morning... Laughing


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8402 is a reply to message #8401 ] Sun, 23 October 2011 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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That is exactly what I thought, James. A total misunderstanding! Very Happy

I will certainly "think" about those chill pills and let you know if I feel that they are simple chemical reactions, occult demonic possession, or maybe just allowing others to walk out their salvation with restoration, and no condemnation.

Glad you are up to bat again! What you get for "thinking" is input and communication that will have eternal consequences for a few who participate on OO, and for hundreds who visit this site.


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8403 is a reply to message #8401 ] Sun, 23 October 2011 18:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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james wrote on Sun, 23 October 2011 16:56

I sometimes just want to...................................Praise The Lord. Smile

Gillyann I wuz trying to (in a not so serious way) say to William and Grandom that maybe they should adjust their additudes...


Adjustment applied!

Quote:

btw: I don't think I've heard the egg-shells reference either...must be cause I'm from de south. But believe me, we got plenty of saying that don't make sense either.


Etymology needed because I thought it was a southern phrase... them northerneer's are more of the 'you've-got-to-break-a-few-eggs-to-make-an-omelet' type of folks.

Quote:

My convictions about divine healing and health are obviously not shared by everyone(not that I have ALL the answers and see 100% manifestations in this area everytime)...but I'm not a debater by nature, nor do I enjoy arguing.


Convictions and opinions are one thing, I'm interested in finding out God's expressed will in the matter -- that's something we can take to the bank! We might have come close but at this point the issue still seems much too subjective to stamp it a 'Christian doctrine'. Perhaps there isn't a 'one-size-fits-all' answer to the question (Occult or not) but you'd think that if this is something that a Christian Church takes a stand on there would be some clear scriptural evidence to back up the conviction or opinion. A Christian who dabbles in the occult should be subject to excommunication for the offense, to my knowledge this never happened at FA (with the exception that some were ostracized to the point that they had no choice but to excommunicate themselves.)

So far I have not been able to find any evidence in the written material from FA (HEF) where medical science and drugs (with the exception of the mind-altering type -- LSD, etc.) were defined as occult. You'd think there would be a whole chapter devoted to a practice so wide-spread in Christian circles but I can't find anything. I quoted brother Freeman's definition of the occult in one of my notes and nothing in that definition mentioned med-science. That was from a tract dealing with occult oppression and the methods of deliverance but again, nothing was mentioned. There must be a reason for the oversight if it was indeed as important as it became in our circles. Books may contain outdated material -- I understand that -- but a TRACT? A tract can be updated almost immediately and given the importance of the subject an update would be the only responsible thing to do.

This may be because the tract was given as a revelation/prophecy (I think I'm right about that) which, if true, begs the question--Why wasn't this crucial information included?

I'll say it again, I'm not 'approving' medical science but there is a big difference between a lack of faith for healing and seeking healing from an occult source.

Quote:

I'm also sure that there are some inconsistencies in my application of my convictions...I run across them from time to time and have tried to seek The Lord for wisdom and direction when I do. It's easy to draw line in the sand; it's much harder to not cross it.(or paint ones self into a corner) Smile

Just take 2 'chill' pills and see how you feel in the morning... Laughing


<grin>

Blessings,
William


I want to believe!
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8405 is a reply to message #8403 ] Sun, 23 October 2011 19:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
Messages: 713
Registered: March 2008
Location: Louisville, Ky area
Senior Member
"I see nothing gained by giving my opinions on if I consider caffeine a drug or if I think vitamins are OK to take."


James, just gotta know. Is ingesting a vitamin OK? Please tell me after all of this that this chemical reaction is not OK with you. Rolling Eyes Laughing

Also, sorry if it seemed that I got carried away. I guess you just had to be there. Smile


------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------

[Updated on: Sun, 23 October 2011 20:00]


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8406 is a reply to message #8403 ] Sun, 23 October 2011 20:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
Messages: 1926
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Senior Member
moulder wrote on Sun, 23 October 2011 18:06



Convictions and opinions are one thing, I'm interested in finding out God's expressed will in the matter -- that's something we can take to the bank! We might have come close but at this point the issue still seems much too subjective to stamp it a 'Christian doctrine'. Perhaps there isn't a 'one-size-fits-all' answer to the question (Occult or not) but you'd think that if this is something that a Christian Church takes a stand on there would be some clear scriptural evidence to back up the conviction or opinion. A Christian who dabbles in the occult should be subject to excommunication for the offense, to my knowledge this never happened at FA (with the exception that some were ostracized to the point that they had no choice but to excommunicate themselves.)

So far I have not been able to find any evidence in the written material from FA (HEF) where medical science and drugs (with the exception of the mind-altering type -- LSD, etc.) were defined as occult. You'd think there would be a whole chapter devoted to a practice so wide-spread in Christian circles but I can't find anything. I quoted brother Freeman's definition of the occult in one of my notes and nothing in that definition mentioned med-science. That was from a tract dealing with occult oppression and the methods of deliverance but again, nothing was mentioned. There must be a reason for the oversight if it was indeed as important as it became in our circles. Books may contain outdated material -- I understand that -- but a TRACT? A tract can be updated almost immediately and given the importance of the subject an update would be the only responsible thing to do.

This may be because the tract was given as a revelation/prophecy (I think I'm right about that) which, if true, begs the question--Why wasn't this crucial information included?

I'll say it again, I'm not 'approving' medical science but there is a big difference between a lack of faith for healing and seeking healing from an occult source.



I think I basically understand what you're seeking to define or find out, and that is whether or not HEF/FA taught that medical science and/or drugs were of occult origins...or if not that, if they still were considered occult? I would love to research and go back and listen to tape #--- or refer to notes, but I have nothing remaining from those days(1980's) except the little yellow "Faith" book and the "Deeper Life" book, everything else is either stored in my heart/memory or gone.

It may be possible that I have drawn the conclusion that drugs are occult from logic...e.g. Did God make marijuana; the poppy plant; all the various plants in the Amazon that are used for their medicinal properties? Yes! But, did He show man how to make heroin, LSD, Valium, Viagra, Zanex, Oxyicotin, Methadone, amphetamines, barbiturates, ect, ect. I DON'T BELIEVE SO. So if the knowledge for making all these enslaving drugs(I didn't scratch the surface, and it's not just 'street' drugs that are abused...mother's little helpers come from the family physician.) wasn't given from God (and they reek such distruction to millions of people) who would be the source of such evil? Satan. Do demons enter people through this medium, drugs? Yes. Do many of these drugs involve altered states of being, mysticism, lead to addiction? Yes.

Now I have personal knowledge AND experience that the above is true concerning the mind altering powers and addictions associated with drug use, both 'illegal' and that purchased at the local pharmacy. I also Know that drugs are an open door to both demonic oppression as well as possession.

So, while I can not quote scripture per say concerning whether or not drugs equal occult involvement, the end results are the same. Without Jesus Christ to set one free from their cluches, a person ends up where the results of all unforgiven sins leads...death. Under a curse, addicted, possessed...and for sure...not walking in faith or obedience to Jesus Christ and we know that anything that's not of faith is sin. If I believe He saved me, and I do; then I also believe He healed me...all done at Calvary.

Another quick thought...Why would He be behind a pill or shot to give me peace when He has already given me what I need to obtain peace...His Word.(Ps.119:165)

I'll stop with this for now.




"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8407 is a reply to message #8405 ] Sun, 23 October 2011 20:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
Messages: 1926
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Senior Member
GWB wrote on Sun, 23 October 2011 19:58


James, just gotta know. Is ingesting a vitamin OK? Please tell me after all of this that this chemical reaction is not OK with you. Rolling Eyes Laughing



Absolutely NOT. I'd be a hypocrite if I did.

That's why I don't drink milk...eat cereal...or any other foods that are fortified with vitamins.






Laughing Thought I wuz serious there for a minute, didn't ya? Laughing


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8408 is a reply to message #8406 ] Sun, 23 October 2011 21:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
Messages: 1185
Registered: January 2006
Senior Member
Administrator
Quote:

I think I basically understand what you're seeking to define or find out, and that is whether or not HEF/FA taught that medical science and/or drugs were of occult origins...or if not that, if they still were considered occult? I would love to research and go back and listen to tape #--- or refer to notes, but I have nothing remaining from those days(1980's) except the little yellow "Faith" book and the "Deeper Life" book, everything else is either stored in my heart/memory or gone.


No, I'm not seeking to define or find out what brother Freeman taught -- I know what he taught about this matter. I quoted some of it from the tape in the other thread.

I'll send you the tape.

Quote:

Another quick thought...Why would He be behind a pill or shot to give me peace when He has already given me what I need to obtain peace...His Word.(Ps.119:165)


I've tried to express the issue in as clear a way as I know how but somehow I'm missing the mark...

Blessings,
William


I want to believe!
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8409 is a reply to message #8408 ] Sun, 23 October 2011 21:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
Messages: 1926
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Senior Member
Sorry, maybe you can start a new thread and lay it out in A-B-C form so I can follow.

I keep going back over to the thread Jman started and I'm not sure what he was after, but it seems to me that it (the topic on 'every time-no exceptions') has morphed into different directions questioning everything from A to Z...which is fine, but I just don't get it evidently...again, sorry.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8410 is a reply to message #8409 ] Sun, 23 October 2011 21:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
Messages: 1185
Registered: January 2006
Senior Member
Administrator
Yes, I know what you mean... there is a lot of stuff jammed into that thread!

What we really need is an editor! <grin>

Blessings,
William


I want to believe!
Re: Bulletin Board [message #8411 is a reply to message #8410 ] Sun, 23 October 2011 22:09 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
james  is currently offline james
Messages: 1926
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Senior Member
moulder wrote on Sun, 23 October 2011 21:55

What we really need is an editor! <grin>



Yeah! That and a Cappuccino machine for the Coffee Break room.

Maybe some nice Bose speakers and a couple of leather over-stuffed chairs with ottomans. <smile>


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
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