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Re: Apostles [message #5936 is a reply to message #5934 ] Mon, 06 July 2009 10:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Hey David,

How's it going man? Yeah, I'd heard somewhere about a godly woman named Deborah and Aaron's sister, Miriam. I even heard about Anna, recorded in the book of Luke...I guess going to Sunday School taught me something.(actually, it taught me a lot, I received a good elementary biblical foundation in a Baptist church, thanks to a mother who insisted on me paying attention in Vacation Bible School and Sunday School.)

But what I don't see are prophetesses today.(and that's not to say there aren't any anywhere) That's probably where we differ, while I certainly don't discount the validity of the office, I believe that those who go around professing themselves to be prophetesses(and prophets) with their seminars and conferences today,(and in effect, selling people what they want to hear) are false, and not anointed and called by God.

So yes, I do know that there were prophetesses in times past which are recorded in the Bible.

Thanks for checking...ya never can just assume someone knows something, however obvious it is to others.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Lakeland Revival/Todd Bentley [message #6097 is a reply to message #5936 ] Sun, 20 September 2009 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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UPDATE on Todd Bentley,

I've kept an eye on Rick Joyner's Morning Star Ministries web site and his updates on the Todd Bentley 'restoration' process. And as I thought when Joyner got involved, the goal was to get Todd Bentley back 'ministering' again. According to both Bentley and Joyner the process has gone well and they're having a fellowship this coming week in N.C. at Joyner's Heritage conference/get together; Todd will be signing books and meeting his 'partners'(those who continue to support him financially). FreshFireMinistries USA is Todd's website here in the U.S. because the people in Canada broke ties with him after the adultery and exposure of his true character in Lakeland, FL.

Joyner had him and his 'new' wife write a doctrinal statement on marriage and divorce that will soon be posted on the website. I'm sure the 'new doctrinal statement' will support the life of adultery they're now living. Yeah, that makes perfect sense, let him write and re-define the doctrine of divorce and remarriage...thus, validating his position and ministry. Joyner said that 'they', Todd and the new wife, had some wonderful new insights on this subject...I'll bet they do! Rolling Eyes

The guy is getting ready to re-enter the ministry with the full endorsement of Rick Joyner and the commissioning apostles and prophets. God help the charsmatic, gullible, people that come under his influence.

If anyone wants to watch the video updates, they're at Joyner's website.

http://www.morningstarministries.org/Group/Group.aspx?ID=100 0040651

[Updated on: Sun, 20 September 2009 16:49]


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Lakeland Revival/Todd Bentley [message #6133 is a reply to message #6097 ] Sat, 17 October 2009 22:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Well, I've still not seen anything on Todd Bentley's web site as to the promised 'doctrinal statement' on marriage and divorce. But they, Rick Joyner, Todd, have updated their 'restoration' video series, and the new wife, Jessa, appears and explains a bit about what happened from her perspective. To give her credit, she does admit that what they did was sin and doesn't try to excuse their behavior. And they ask for forgiveness and appear to have given all the right answers. And of course the example they use from The Word is David and Bathsheba, and how God used David even after he had sinned, both in committing adultery and murder. I don't see a restriction given in scripture concerning being a king...but I do in being a minister of the NT church.

I Tim.3:1-7 as well as Titus 1:6-9 both set the qualifications of a bishop( that includes all 5-fold offices, I believe, Bro.Freeman taught this and I've not found anything that proves it wrong ) and both state that he must be blameless, not given to wine, not given to filthy lucre, sober, the husband of ONE wife. Now I am aware that some are of the 'opinion' that that means one wife at a time. I don't see the scriptures saying that...not literally or in the context of the whole text. I don't see any examples given either of NT church leaders, 5-fold office holders, or elders having more than one wife.

So, forgive them? YES. Put him/them back in the ministry again? Not Biblical, he has disqualified himself by his actions.


The web address to watch the video is...

http://www.freshfireusa.com/


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Lakeland Revival/Todd Bentley [message #6218 is a reply to message #6133 ] Thu, 12 November 2009 17:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Here is an interesting article entitled:

"Sloshed in the Spirit: It's Time to Get Sober"

www.charismamag.com/
Re: Lakeland Revival/Todd Bentley [message #6220 is a reply to message #6218 ] Thu, 12 November 2009 18:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Thought I'd help make it a little easier, cause I had to search for a while to find it.

http://www.charismamag.com/

It's under newsletters and authored by J.Lee Grady...after clicking on newsletters go to 'Fire in My Bones' and it's down the list a few articles.

Just to find out what the majority thought, I took the poll on whether or not The Holy Spirit manifests Himself with drunken behavior. It was no shock to me to see that over 20% of those responding to the poll thought it was right...(remember these are, by and large, 'charismatics' who read his magazine, so what else would ya expect?)

I guess Todd Bentley felt he was just helping The Holy Spirit out by getting drunk on his own????

[Updated on: Thu, 12 November 2009 18:27]


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Lakeland Revival/Todd Bentley [message #6223 is a reply to message #6220 ] Thu, 12 November 2009 19:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Laughing Laughing Laughing Who knows!?! Rolling Eyes

Thanks for the help, James. I really do try though! Very Happy Laughing

Blessings,

GWB
Re: Lakeland Revival/Todd Bentley [message #6234 is a reply to message #6133 ] Fri, 13 November 2009 23:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jisamazed  is currently offline jisamazed
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We've seen this happen over and over again. A super-powered preacher trades in his old wife for a new one, just like a used car. He cries a few tears, then insists that everyone receive him back again. I'm incredulous that people would do so. There are many unsaved people who know better and live better than that.

I'm very disappointed in Rick Joyner. I will pray for him that he will see his blind side in this matter. Maybe it will be a catalyst for him to get down to the root of the deeper problems, the whole reason why he was blind to this problem in the first place.


Amazed smitten astonished stunned floored blown away astounded shocked flabbergasted surprised wonderfully devastated awed shattered overwhelmed incredulous speechless sense of wonder at the love of God.
Re: Todd Bentley [message #6389 is a reply to message #4861 ] Fri, 04 December 2009 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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james wrote on Tue, 13 January 2009 09:13



I read that Todd is under the direction of Rick Joyner and Bill Johnson in the Carolina's and is going to move there. I believe we can see where that's going...'apostle Bentley back in the saddle again...'






So here we are 11 months later and the latest update from Rick Joyner and Todd Bentley has them announcing that Todd is back in ministry again. He is putting on webinars to teach and 'impart' healing and the word of knowledge. soon after that he's going to do a 4 day teaching at Rick Joyner's church. After 11 months he's 'back in the saddle', turned loose with Rick Joyner's blessings.

Here's the latest video announcing their plans...And guess what? People will come flocking to him again, why? They still had rather experience something supernatural with all the excitment, than spend time with God developing a personal relationship with Him, and spending time in The Word and prayer so they can rightly discern what is of God and what's manifestations of demons. God help those who have endorsed and backed this guy, I don't know if Rick Joyner is motivated by money or power, or if God has sent him a strong delusion(II Thess.2:11); but he's determined to stand behind Todd and even join in with him, according to what he says on the video.


http://www.freshfireusa.com/media/0,87


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Todd Bentley [message #6654 is a reply to message #6389 ] Thu, 14 January 2010 18:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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The thread that never ends...

I got this email today... apparently the 'restoration' process is moving
right along!


************************************************************ *

KUNDALINI WARNING - Urgent
-by Andrew Strom.

I just saw the video of Rick Joyner announcing that Todd Bentley
is back ministering every night at Morningstar in North Carolina
and now they have so-called "revival" manifestations eerily similar
to Lakeland. They also announced that they are streaming these
big meetings every night on their new TV channel - and they are
greatly promoting the whole thing.

Now I am a tongues-speaking Pentecostal myself - but can I ask
a simple question here please? What kind of "spirit" was it
operating in the Lakeland revival - when the leader and main focal-
point of the meetings (Todd Bentley) was having an adulterous
affair behind the scenes? Was it truly the "Holy" Spirit that was
anointing something so sensual and unholy? And now that Todd
divorced his wife and married his mistress - are we supposed to
welcome him back and this "anointing" with him? What is going
on here? Rick Joyner has been warned very specifically by high-
level ministries not to do what he is doing now - bringing Todd
Bentley back into the limelight. And yet it seems he does not
care. Apparently the "manifestations" are all that matter.

So what exactly are these 'manifestations' if they are seemingly
at home in such an unholy environment? Are they from God at
all? (I am talking here about the violent "jerking", uncontrollable
laughter, bodily contortions, drunkenness, 'portals', strange "angel"
encounters, etc.) Why do we not see such an 'anointing' in the
Bible? Why aren't Jesus or the apostles promoting these
manifestations if they really are true Revival? Why instead do we
see these things all the way through the New Age and Hinduism,
etc? Do we not realize that many false religions have their own
version of "laying on of hands" that results in these very types of
manifestations? This 'spirit' is not in the Bible - but it is all the
way through Kundalini-type Hinduism! Don't you think this should
alarm us?

WHAT is KUNDALINI?

If you search for Kundalini and Shakti on the Internet, you will find
that multitudes of people in the New Age and Eastern religions
still experience these powerful manifestations. Often this is with
the help of a Guru, who touches them on the forehead so that
they can experience a "Kundalini Awakening".

As researcher Robert Walker wrote in 1995:
"The meetings which mystic Hindu gurus hold are called 'Darshan'.
At these meetings devotees go forward to receive spiritual experience
from a touch by the open palm of the hand, often to the forehead,
by the guru in what is known as the Shakti Pat or divine touch.
The raising of the spiritual experience is called raising Kundalini.
After a period when the devotee has reached a certain spiritual
elevation they begin to shake, jerk, or hop or squirm uncontrollably,
sometimes breaking into uncontrolled animal noises or laughter
as they reach an ecstatic high. These manifestations are called
'Kriyas'. Devotees sometimes roar like lions and show all kinds
of physical signs during this period. Often devotees move on to
higher states of spiritual consciousness and become inert
physically and appear to slip into an unconsciousness..."

And as the guru Shri Yogănandji Mahărăja wrote:
"When Your body begins trembling, hair stands on roots, you laugh
or begin to weep without your wishing, your tongue begins to utter
deformed sounds, you are filled with fear or see frightening visions.
the Kundalini Shakti has become active."

In China there is a popular Kundalini-type movement called 'Qigong'.
When a Chinese Qigong spiritual master spoke in the USA in
1991, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that many in the crowd
began to experience "spontaneous movements". The master told
his audience, "Those who are sensitive might start having some
strong physical sensations - or start laughing or crying. Don't worry.
This is quite normal."

When you see videos of these "kriyas" or other Kundalini-type
manifestations, you would often swear that you are watching a
modern "Impartation"-type church meeting. (And I say this as
someone who believes strongly in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I just
don't believe in "alien" anointings infiltrating the Body of Christ!
There is a big difference between Kundalini and the real Holy Spirit).

Since 1993-4, I believe a foreign spirit has been allowed to invade
the church - first through Rodney Howard-Browne's ministry - then
Toronto, then the Prophetic movement (which I was part of at the
time) and on into Lakeland and many other ministries and
movements. I urge people now to "test the spirits" just as we are
commanded to in Scripture. Do not let just anyone lay hands on
you. This is a powerful spirit and it has the backing of a lot of
big-name ministries. In fact, these men and women are the very
ones responsible for allowing it to spread right through the body
of Christ. And one day they will be answerable to God for doing so.

We are specifically warned in the Bible that the Last Days will be
a time of "seducing spirits," false prophets, 'lying signs and
wonders,' and that we always need to watch for "angels of light"
masquerading as the real thing. Why does the modern church
not take these warnings seriously? Aren't we living in the very
days that the Bible warns about?

Right now I need to do something that I have never done in such
a way before. I have never before published a list of ministries or
movements to watch out for. But this time I have to. This sickness
has gone on long enough. I urge you to cut yourself off from
the following ministries and their tainted "anointings" my friends.
Even though some of these people say "good things" at times, it
is simply not worth having any involvement with them due to the
tainted anointing that they endorse or minister in themselves. Here
is the list-

(1) Todd Bentley.
(2) Rodney Howard Browne - the so-called "Holy Ghost Bartender."
(2) Rick Joyner or anyone connected with Morningstar Ministries.
(3) John Arnott & any connected with TACF (The "Toronto Blessing").
(4) Peter Wagner of the 'New Apostolic Reformation' who claims
to be head of a worldwide network of 'apostles' - who publicly
endorsed Lakeland and will soon preach at Toronto TACF alongside
other "false anointing" advocates.
(5) Mike Bickle and IHOP Kansas City (-I lived nearby for over
two years - and know how much they are into all this stuff. Mike
Bickle promotes it in his book).
(6) Bob Jones - the Kansas City prophet whose ministry is utterly
tainted by it all.
(7) Patricia King and anyone else from 'Extreme Prophetic.'
(Cool John Crowder & anyone connected with "Sloshfest."
(9) Bill Johnson of Bethel church, Redding - who says some good
things but publicly endorsed Lakeland and promotes the "false
anointing" very strongly behind the scenes.
(10) Heidi & Rolland Baker of IRIS Ministries - who do good work
amongst the poor in Mozambique - but who have also carried
and promoted this tainted anointing for years.
(11) Randy Clark, Wes & Stacey Campbell, and other key
figures from the "Toronto blessing."
(12) The Elijah List - and almost anyone featured on it.

Of course there are a huge number of lesser-known preachers
and ministries who carry or endorse this Kundalini-type "anointing"
around the world. But I have concentrated here on the most
influential that I know of. It really is an enormous issue in the
church. I urge anyone who is a supporter of any of the above
ministries to really check them out thoroughly. If you find (as I have)
that they carry or endorse this false Kundalini spirit in the church,
then please stop supporting them in any way - and whatever you
do, don't let them "lay hands" on you!

I am putting everything on the line to be "naming names" like this.
But I believe it is that serious. How on earth did we get to the point
where "kriyas" just like Hinduism are spreading through the church?

Please forward this email to everyone you know, blogs and boards,
etc. These people are trying to "relaunch" this whole thing right
now. Help us get this warning out. To see a video showing "kriyas"
and other Kundalini-type manifestations, please click on the
Youtube links below-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyW1UFzS2LY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaNiuRWHZrY

Please send feedback on this article to- prophetic@revivalschool.com

God bless you all!

Andrew Strom.

--
YES! - You have permission to post these emails to friends
or other groups, boards, etc - unless there is something
different written in the Copyright notice above.

************************************************************ ******


I want to believe!
Re: Todd Bentley [message #6655 is a reply to message #6654 ] Thu, 14 January 2010 19:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Speaking of testing the spirits.......

This post went from Anonymous Please to Moulder as the author in just a matter of minutes. Blam! Smile

No, my real name's not Andrew Strom...


Looks like he's came to the same conclusion we came to last year. I've thought all along Joyner was going use Bentley to get 'back into the saddle'.
It was obvious from watching the progression of the videos they kept releasing, the envelope kept getting pushed closer and closer.
Some deceptions and errors are hard to discern, this one you could see coming from a mile away.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Todd Bentley [message #6657 is a reply to message #6654 ] Thu, 14 January 2010 19:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sparkles  is currently offline sparkles
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Thank you for sharing this William. We were warned time after time after time to not let people lay hands on you, but in the past 15 years it seems everybody wants to lay hands on everybody else. Even some of our mainline denominations have gotten in on it.

I remember hearing a message by David Wilkerson warning his church to not let people lay hands on them, unless they knew the ministry and the person. He said you could pick up the same spirits they have if you arent' careful. Of course, there is always the being led of the Lord, but the point is to be very careful and discerning whom you allow to do this.

Makes a person wonder if some of the ministry was more cautious years back if things could have been different. Some were letting a so called prophet, who turned out to be homosexual and an alcoholic, lay hands on them and give personal prophecies. Not to mention how he made fun of the faith message and trusting God.

We each need to take heed to the warnings of the Lord and the checks in our spirit when something is wrong, and this comes by fellowship with the Lord and knowing Gods word.
Re: Todd Bentley [message #6659 is a reply to message #6655 ] Thu, 14 January 2010 19:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Quote:

James wrote:
> Speaking of testing the spirits.......
>
> This post went from Anonymous Please to Moulder as the author in just a matter of minutes. Blam! :)
>
> No, my real name's not Andrew Strom...
>




That's because I posted with my other email address instead of
moulder@overcomersonline.com! I see that Sincerely has posted the link
which I should have tried to find instead of reproducing the whole article.

Something interesting... the first time I heard the term "kundalini" was
in a message Steve Hill did at FA way back when. (Of course he was
warning us about the phenomena surrounding that spirit.)

Re: Todd Bentley [message #6660 is a reply to message #6659 ] Thu, 14 January 2010 20:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Something I just wondered about, wasn't the 'laughing revival' part of that spirit?

And wasn't S.J. into that, down in Pensacola, Fl.?


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Todd Bentley [message #6662 is a reply to message #6660 ] Thu, 14 January 2010 21:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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I'm not sure about SJ's participation, but yes, I would lump the
laughing thing with the rest of the bathwater.

Blessings,
William

Re: Todd Bentley [message #6664 is a reply to message #6660 ] Thu, 14 January 2010 21:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sparkles  is currently offline sparkles
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Here is a little something about Steve from the fathers glory site:

"S.J. has been on the faculty of the Brownsville Revival School of Ministry and the F.I.R.E. School of Ministry. He has also taught at Mike Bickle's Forerunner School of Ministry in Kansas City, Missouri."

Alot of what has gone on at these so called revivals have come from the Toronto Vineyard. There is an very interesting article written by a man who went to the Toronto Vineyard church that was posted in this thread on Tue, 27 May 2008 15:40. The man who wrote the article is Paul Gowdy. I had the opportunity to hear him in person at a discernment conference and this man is sure on fire for the Lord.

There is a web site that I have enjoyed and is exposing the very errors that people embraced from the Kansas City Prophets and Mike Bickle. It has also continued to expose deceptions the church of today is following after. The site is: discernment-ministries.org
Which also has a link to a site called: herescope.blogsite.com

These truly are days to watch and pray.
Re: Todd Bentley [message #6721 is a reply to message #6664 ] Thu, 28 January 2010 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
watchman  is currently offline watchman
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Hi all.

The pastor of my church is friends with Rob McMillian (past Morningstar pastor) and Rick Joyner. Rob has been a good sound pastor as I have observed for the last three years. He must have been removed to make room for Todd B...I'm thinking. My wife and I don't plan on participating in Todd B's work at Morningstar. This is not because I don't believe that God can forgive Todd, but I think that it has been way too soon to put him back in ministry. He is encluded in the next conference at MS in February.

Peace to you all

David


Watchman
Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #6722 is a reply to message #1939 ] Fri, 29 January 2010 10:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wishing34  is currently offline wishing34
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Regarding: the current "new Lakeland revival"

Summary:

I emailed them for info on apostles - they know of none.
They are using a lot of (human effort) manipulation tricks.
They claim incredible miracles - but never medical proof.
Possibly is only human efforts with emotional responses from people.

Can anyone show anything clearly supernatural? - No? then why not view
it as human efforts - why credit devil with doing anything. And
why associate it with God doing anything?




------------------------------------------------------------ ----------
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------

I emailed Morniningstar Ministries(Rick Joyner's church which is hosting
a new "Lakeland type revival" right now- with Bentley) a couple weeks ago.
I found on google that they are affiliated with groups of "prophets" from
Kansas City and others that have been talking about modern prophets and
apostles for more than 10 years.

I asked for web link to any apostle that they know of. They got back that
they do not know of any apostles.

A sincere, honest person (with no bad intent) could, with human zeal,
impersonate any of the 5-fold except apostle because apostles must have
the "signs of an apostle." Clearly there are many sincere impersonators
out there - but not as apostles unless they "dumb-down" the definition
of apostle to not require the "signs of an apostle."


I think in their current revival they are "impersonating" God's true
anointing - replacing it with human effort manipulations.

(note: they are not claiming apostles at all
as seen by my email question to them above)

----------------------------
I find what they are doing to be totally human effort -


long music time - close to chanting to set an emotional state in people,


music in background while preaching - very obviously manuipulating
emotions to fit the message


much talk of coming miracles to set expectation,


lifting up of certain men as having special anointing for miracles to
set expectations,


spontaneous shouting during preaching as if God overwhelmed them,


dancing, shaking, laughing as if God's presence is too strong to stand still


then peer pressure so others shake also - "come on don't you also have
God's anointing on you? can't you feel it?",


stand over someone and shout (very loud) "FIRE!" 15 -20 times,


suggestible people fall/lie down as if "slain in the Spirit" and stay
down enjoying their prayer language,


STRONGLY push people in prayer line to cause more to fall down "slain"
power of suggestion causes others to fall "slain" when prayed over.



Sincere sick people with real needs think (in emotional, suggestible state) that
they feel something (warmth, etc) near their ailment and testify that a healing
occurred.

---------------------------


All I see on their web TV could have a human, natural explanation.
Is anyone aware of anything supernatural for sure? Clear miracles would
mean either God or the devil but I think all they have might just be human
manipulations - carnival tricks.


I would like to know of real signs/wonders that would mean this is something
much more serious.

=====================


On the Rick Joyner videos about restoring Bentley . . Rick said, months ago,
that in future revivals they were going to get medical documentation
of the signs and wonders because back in Lakeland a couple years ago there
were no records and now he (Rick) cannot verify any miracles even occurred
except that he saw them in person.

I saw on their web feed a few days ago that a guy was overjoyed that he felt
warmth inside his skull where he has cancer. We all hope this brother
is/gets better. But that should easily be verified by X-rays and med
reports. In fact such reports would be a great testimony to bring the
world to hear the preaching. So far no med reports. I saw an emotional,
sincere testimony but did anything real actually happen?

Without med reports I see it as manipulations causing emotional testimonies
which are proof enough to them that God is doing things. But anyone at
all skeptical can see there is nothing that was "for sure" supernatural.

No one is ever skeptical of their own meetings - only stranger's meetings.
So the flock there is "sold" on these revival meetings.

-------------------------------

If these people have meetings long enough eventually there will be a
cancer or other bad disease go into remission (happens naturally 2%
of the time I read somewhere) and then they will begin proving their
anointing with those medical records.

So I realize ministries that are big enough for long enough can
produce some medical records. Can't be gullible.



Re: Todd Bentley [message #6727 is a reply to message #6721 ] Sat, 30 January 2010 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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watchman wrote on Thu, 28 January 2010 16:09

Hi all.

The pastor of my church is friends with Rob McMillian (past Morningstar pastor) and Rick Joyner. Rob has been a good sound pastor as I have observed for the last three years. He must have been removed to make room for Todd B...I'm thinking. My wife and I don't plan on participating in Todd B's work at Morningstar. This is not because I don't believe that God can forgive Todd, but I think that it has been way too soon to put him back in ministry. He is encluded in the next conference at MS in February.

Peace to you all

David



Hello David,

I don't know anything about Rob McMillian except what is on websites, but the observation that he may have been removed to make room for Bentley doesn't sound too far fetched. His name isn't exactly a household one here in America, where as Todd Bentley is know worldwide inside Charismatic circles. And we all know the bigger the audience, the more money they will get in offerings. And know this, it IS all about the money and adoration of man(from their side; from Satan's, it all about the deception and destruction of gullible Christians)

I too believe God can forgive Todd,(I believe to be forgiven he must repent, and repentance is TURNING from the sin) but I don't think time has anything to do with him being qualified for the ministry. I have noticed that he's putting on 'webinars' and teaching others.

But it's been apparent to me from the time he relocated from Canada to Rick Joyner's place, that the whole purpose has been to reestablish him in the ministry. You can see the progression from video to video, each one revealed more and more what was behind it, rehabilitate his name and regain the trust of any doubters.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #6728 is a reply to message #6722 ] Sat, 30 January 2010 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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wishing34 wrote on Fri, 29 January 2010 10:13



Can anyone show anything clearly supernatural? - No? then why not view
it as human efforts - why credit devil with doing anything. And
why associate it with God doing anything?





I don't know for a fact if anything supernatural happened in Lakeland or not, though many people believe it did. You ask, 'why credit the devil with doing anything'? Well, one thing for sure, supernatural or not, he is responsible for bringing reproach upon the body of Christ, and through the vessels he used, lead many to believe that they were experiencing God.

As to apostles, if I remember correctly, at the time of the 'commissioning' of Bentley there was a group of men claiming to be part of some apostolic team, lead by a man named Peter Wagner.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #6729 is a reply to message #6728 ] Sat, 30 January 2010 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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But it's been apparent to me from the time he relocated from Canada to Rick Joyner's place, that the whole purpose has been to reestablish him in the ministry. You can see the progression from video to video, each one revealed more and more what was behind it, rehabilitate his name and regain the trust of any doubters.


I think the same about these guys as you do but just trying to be fair Rick Joyner seems to have an affinity for trying to help people like this. There are other people like this who have been hurt (dersevedly or not) who he takes into his ministry. Bob Jones for eg. So I'm saying from his point of view he is being Godly and trying to help the Body of Christ. Or in other words his motives are good.

[Updated on: Sat, 30 January 2010 13:30]

Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #6730 is a reply to message #6729 ] Sat, 30 January 2010 17:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Hardbones wrote on Sat, 30 January 2010 13:30

So I'm saying from his point of view he is being Godly and trying to help the Body of Christ. Or in other words his motives are good.


Yeah, I'd imagine that in his mind he feels he's doing the right thing. I don't want to judge Rick Joyner the person, but I do think the fruit of his ministry should be observed with discernment.

If you'll go to YouTube and type in the search box, Rick Joyner-Morningstar Madness, you'll see one of the things that I'm concerned about. Also you can search around and listen to some of his 'prophecies' and teachings. There's another one about A.A.Allen(2 parts) and some strange 'releases' and declarations.

This seems like the environment that Todd Bentley thrives in, chanting 'Fire' and strange impartations, with the jerking about of the body.

From 'my point of view', he's hurting the Body of Christ. Maybe David/watchman could enlighten us if this is indicative of what goes on at Morningstar.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #6741 is a reply to message #1939 ] Thu, 04 February 2010 17:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
watchman  is currently offline watchman
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I have had a few one-on-one conversations with Bob Jones and he seems to be very cautious these days. I think it is more normal that his “prophesies” are confusing and simple rather than radical and scary. I know that Jones is being used in many large ministries for guidance. I withhold my judgment, given what I have seen. It is true that Joyner has tried to repair a few ministries. Jim Baker states that Joyner helped him when no one else would. I saw Baker preach last year and he sure has a gift. Joyner offered to help Paul Cain when the fallout came out about him. Cain left the state and wouldn’t come under Joyner’s oversee. One thing I know, Joyner doesn’t care what is said about him. He states he has a mountain home and would prefer to spend his time there rather be involved in all of this.


David


Watchman
Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #6873 is a reply to message #6741 ] Fri, 26 February 2010 11:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Here's a YouTube link to Todd Bentley and his new wife back in 'ministry'.

Looks to be the stage area of Morningstar's church.(Rick Joyner)

I guess this wife has picked up the 'fire'...(strange fire)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAaGpg3cawQ


btw:David/watchman, what will it take to open your eyes to the truth?


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #6874 is a reply to message #6873 ] Fri, 26 February 2010 12:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grandom  is currently offline grandom
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james wrote on Fri, 26 February 2010 11:25


btw:David/watchman, what will it take to open your eyes to the truth?


Jh 18:38 Pilate sayeth unto Him, "What is truth?"
Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #6875 is a reply to message #6873 ] Fri, 26 February 2010 19:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sparkles  is currently offline sparkles
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Wow, James thanks for sharing. It is amazing that people are so desperate for the supernatural to following such messages. I can remember going to an assembly of God church and the same head jerking and shaking and body jerking was going on there. This church had brought this sort of thing back from the Pensacola "revival." Thankfully there were not the barnyard noises like Kansas City and Toronto Airport Vineyard. And I do not say this laughing or mocking, but rather grieved that the people of God do not discern these things, and the so called laughing in the Spirit and getting drunk in the spirit. I can remember someone I know, that talked of having a type of anointing where they pretended to throw something at someone and that person would fall down under the anointing. I just can't see the anointing of God being thrown like a baseball and someone fall under the power. These people were doing this out in public at restuarants and on the street. God will not be mocked. The world makes fun and laughs at some of these so called "revivals." Many of these ministers have brought reproach on the body of Christ by their actions and extravagance, with their mansions and personal jets, and fancy cars. May God have mercy on them.

For me, I pray to take heed and do what the Lord Jesus would have me to do. To pray for true revival and for people to be blessed by the Word of God. To walk in the light God has given me and to be an encouragement to others. When I look around there is so much hurt and hard times people are going through, and we as christians need to have the joy of the Lord and let others know why we can be joyfull in the midst of trials. To let people know that our God will never leave or forsake us, but rather work all things for our good. And to always thank God for all that we have, as we in the United States are a very blessed people who have an abundance that many in the world do not have, nor ever will. May it not end up being a curse to us also where we don't learn to trust Jesus in every area of our lives. May we be willing to wait on the Lord, and trust Jesus that His timing is perfect, knowing that He is doing a good work in us as we wait in faith for that which is promised to us. Jesus loves us with an everlasting love, and wants to lead us and guide us in our walk with Him.

Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #6893 is a reply to message #1939 ] Sun, 28 February 2010 12:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wishing34  is currently offline wishing34
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On the Morningstar web cast last week they had a woman
come up and testify that she bad cancer and was now healed.

She brought her "medical reports" which they showed on the
camera over the web cast. It was some sort of psuedo-medical
company that prints out a percent efficiency for every organ
of the body. There were before and after print outs which
the "on stage personalities" showed as proof of healing.
Very low standards for confirming a miracle.

Most people would consider such psuedo-scientific healing
systems as quackery.

Hopefully this nice woman will survive her cancer.

-----------------------------

Many consider this "revival" as the cutting edge of God's current
activity in Christendom.

But I still would like to see even one case where something
"for-sure" supernatural happened in these meetings.

If Christians "dumb down" the definitions for signs/wonders then
man can impersonate God's real anointing.

------------------

Please react to this idea:

In these modern times of abundant medical imagery any ministry that
says they have had lots of signs/wonders will be able to produce many
before/after medical proofs.



Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #6894 is a reply to message #6893 ] Sun, 28 February 2010 13:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Hey jman,

Like I said earlier, I don't know if anything supernatural goes on in the meetings or not, cause I've not been there. But I do know that Satan himself has the ability to be transformed into an angel of light.(II Cor.11:14) And I believe there is probably a combination of both demonic manifestations as well as people getting 'caught up' in the flesh. The people attending and watching on the internet are seeking supernatural signs and wonders and Satan is more than happy to oblige them. Also they're drawing people who NEED healing, one thing about faked medical records, if the person really has cancer or other serious affictions, just 'saying' they're heal doesn't make them well. That's part of the tragedy, not only are they being spiritually deceived and fleeced of their monies, they could die believing they've been healed. Meanwhile someone is waving a computer printed sheet to everyone watching, that 'proves' they healed them.

I think I see your point about it being just the power of mental suggestion and total quackery and that nothing is happening supernatural at all, neither by God or Satan. But I personally tend to believe, just based on watching a 'lot' of video in '08 as it was happening in Lakeland, that there are supernatural manifestations taking place....but they're demonic impartations, not the 'fire' of The Holy Spirit.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #6900 is a reply to message #6893 ] Sun, 28 February 2010 20:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sparkles  is currently offline sparkles
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"In these modern times of abundant medical imagery any ministry that says they have had lots of signs/wonders will be able to produce many before/after medical proofs."

Greeting Wishing 34,
I would certainly agree with your statement, as all it takes is a deceiver, a good computer, a printer and viola: proof of supernatural healing. Like we have been taught, God will confirm the word with signs following, so if the word being taught is deceptions, heresy and error, then who is confirming the word? Or is it all just a show and actors? Or worse, is it demonically done? At a friends church the pastor just asked the people if there was someone across the street giving personal words and prophecies, would they go to see that or would they come and hear the word taught? I pray our answer would be to hear the word of God taught and not follow after signs and wonders with no biblical teaching.

Ya know, even if something supernatural did happen in the meetings, we still need to line up the teaching with the word of God, because the devil will make sure there are supernatural things going on, because alot of people want that instead of sound biblical teaching. Most want a quick fix, a "word from the Lord," that way they don't have to spend the time and effort seeking God for themselves, but can get a quick prophecy from a "prophet."

We need to be careful in these days as the devil is walking about seeking whom he may devour, but we can put on the armour of God and use all the weapons we've been given so we can stand.
Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #6973 is a reply to message #6900 ] Thu, 11 March 2010 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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I just noticed that Todd Bentley is going to conduct a 'School of the Supernatural' June 9 through 12, 2010. He is pitching it on his website, 'FreshFire Ministries'. He says he's going to teach about the different realms of heaven, the 2nd heaven and the 3rd heaven; angels; imparting of the fire; soaking; and supernatural manifestations, plus much more.

While I thought this was going to happen, and even though I said over a year ago it was all designed to get him back before the people...still it makes me shake my head (no, not that kind of shaking)


And the deception continues on...and they'll line up once again to partake of the strange fire.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #6977 is a reply to message #6973 ] Fri, 12 March 2010 15:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yeah_well  is currently offline yeah_well
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should leave lots of free time if you stick with what the Bible teaches about said subjects Very Happy
Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #6985 is a reply to message #6977 ] Mon, 15 March 2010 18:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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On Fri, 12 Mar 2010, Matt wrote:

>
>
> should leave lots of free time if you stick with what the Bible teaches about said subjects :d
>

Be sure to send in your love gift even if you don't go... these
'ministries' can't exist without your tithes and offerings. <grin>

Blessings,
William


Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #7015 is a reply to message #6985 ] Thu, 01 April 2010 21:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
watchman  is currently offline watchman
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Hey everyone:

My wife and I are disgusted with the goings on lately with Todd B. and his new wife. As I stated before I think it is too early at best to bring Todd back out into ministry. Quite frankly though, I have had many dreams as I stated before, and I know that revelation that would even shock Todd Bentley is real and coming out in these last days. I have had many such dreams and have wrote to you about a few of them. My wife and I have a growing homegroup and we encourage the ministry of the gifts with much success.

I have listen to sermons from Brownsville, IHOP, Christian International, and even some from Morningstar and believe that there are good ministers working in all of them. I do not feel myself responsible for Rick Joyner's decisions(this is not the first time that he has picked gifting over character), and none of you have suggested that I am. I just want to point out that God is moving in power and healing people everyday. God is giving words to me that consistantly come true. I sense that some of you have lost faith in God or have suffered injuring still and I want this to be an encouragement to you.

I saw in a dream the house that I now live in and recount the unusual furniture. I saw my wife and I having these meetings and people being ministered to. I saw the fan and the canopy bed in the bedroom and the diamond shaped ceiling ten years before it existed. The building was built and furnished by someone else for me. In another dream in 1994, I saw the planes flying into New York and causing great destruction (911 of course) and have had amazing revelation in hundreds of dreams since. God doesn't always do what I expect him to do, but I have no complaints. I hope you find encouragement in what I have written.

In Christ:

David


Watchman
Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #7016 is a reply to message #7015 ] Thu, 01 April 2010 22:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Thanks for the encouragement, David. And I'm encouraged in seeing that you are seeing through Todd Bentley, hopefully others will as well.
You 'could' very well be right, some of us may have lost faith in God...may He forgive the unbelief.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #7238 is a reply to message #7016 ] Wed, 04 August 2010 12:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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I periodically check out Todd Bentley and his new home, Morningstar/Rick Joyner. As far as I can tell from reading his website (Fresh Fire Ministries, USA) and viewing videos, he has been 'restored'. He is conducting 'Webinars' regularly on healing, the supernatural, and other topics and is 'ministering' at Morningstar on occasion.

I see that, Nov. 10-13 there will be a School of Prophets with Rick Joyner, Bob Jones, and Todd Bentley. Before you laugh or write them off, let's look at some of the alumni of this great institution. I believe that Elijah and Jeremiah both graduated from there, with honors if I may add, and John The Baptist went there on a full scholarship. Rolling Eyes I'm being factitious because it's so obivously not God's way of calling prophets, or anointing them.
But someone has to train the 'prophets of tomorrow' how to properly pronounce the 'ah' at the end of words, for maximum impact.

Example: "Be heeeeled...ah" OK, enough! point made...

***
I wrote this to make a point, not mocking or backbiting T. Bentley. What they're doing is very serious and certainly not a joking matter...May The Lord be merciful to them as individuals; but as to their false teachings and doctrines, I believe they should be exposed as what they are, deceptions that are robbing Christians.

[Updated on: Wed, 04 August 2010 18:39]


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #7239 is a reply to message #7238 ] Wed, 04 August 2010 12:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Wow... that must mean... drum roll...

Joyner's prophecy about the longevity of TB's ministry... is still... it's
still viable!!!

I'm sure the rest of the stagehands are now breathing easier too.


Blessings,
William



Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #7241 is a reply to message #7239 ] Wed, 04 August 2010 15:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Speaking of the 'stagehands'...

Remember the 'Commissioning of Todd Bentley' by C. Peter Wagner, Bill Johnson, Che' Ahn, John Arnott, Rick Joyner, and Stacy Campbell? Well as I was reading about something related to Bentley and his restoration, I came across this interesting excerpt from a book that tells a little about C. Peter Wagner.(the founder/leader of the International Coalition of Apostles or better know as the 'Apostolic Reformation Movement') It shines a lot of light on the emergent church movement and other things happening in the apostate church of today. Pay attention to his (Wagner) title as 'professor of church growth on the graduate level'...As compared to people like Rick Warren and John Wimber who are only at the elementary level???

Wow! A church planter extraordinar'.


http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/5/28/19033/8502


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Todd Bentley [message #7959 is a reply to message #6389 ] Thu, 23 June 2011 13:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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james wrote on Fri, 04 December 2009 16:09

james wrote on Tue, 13 January 2009 09:13



I read that Todd is under the direction of Rick Joyner and Bill Johnson in the Carolina's and is going to move there. I believe we can see where that's going...'apostle Bentley back in the saddle again...'






So here we are 11 months later and the latest update from Rick Joyner and Todd Bentley has them announcing that Todd is back in ministry again. He is putting on webinars to teach and 'impart' healing and the word of knowledge. soon after that he's going to do a 4 day teaching at Rick Joyner's church. After 11 months he's 'back in the saddle', turned loose with Rick Joyner's blessings.




Less than 3 years removed from the Lakeland, Florida REVIVAL, Todd Bentley has determined that Williamsburg, Virginia will host the 'next' great signs and wonders with impartation move. He says that the 'Revival Healing Angel' that visited him in Lakeland, Florida, recently came to visit him during a prophetic experience. Also the lord told him to set aside at least 30 days for this newest revival, from June 27,2011 til July 26,2011. He plans to have David Hogan as guest minister around the 4th of July. I wish I had been wrong about him, but no, Todd is once again 'back in the saddle'...and there are people lined up to let him lay hands on them, imparting to them the deception to spread around...just like Lakeland, Brownsville, and Toronto. To read of his latest plans, here's the link:


http://www.freshfireusa.com/index.php/articles/view/206


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Todd Bentley [message #8126 is a reply to message #7959 ] Thu, 18 August 2011 07:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grandom  is currently offline grandom
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Lest we forget. The latest on Todd Bentley.

http://www.examiner.com/revivals-in-national/todd-bentley-of -lakeland-revival-florida-outpouring-endorsed-by-bill-johnso n
Re: Todd Bentley [message #8127 is a reply to message #8126 ] Thu, 18 August 2011 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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grandom wrote on Thu, 18 August 2011 07:09

Lest we forget.


George Santayana once said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."


Charisse Van Horn has really done her homework,<tongue in cheek> she's using quotes from Benny Hinn, Rodney Howard-Browne, Rick Joyner, Bill Johnson, and J. Lee Grady in explaining Todd Bentley. Only to Andrew Strom's info would I give any credence, the others have a track record similar (if not worse) than Bentleys'.

Bill Johnson and 'his' Bethel church in California is very much like Joyner's Morningstar church in South Carolina, perfect examples of the 'harlot church system' and a shameful reminder of what happens when people aren't grounded in God's Word...Flaky and kooky, tossed about by every wind of doctrine, chasing after signs and wonders and 'new things', and Satan is right there to provide his counterfeit supernatural experiences.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Todd Bentley [message #8128 is a reply to message #8127 ] Thu, 18 August 2011 12:27 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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"......a shameful reminder of what happens when people aren't grounded in God's Word...Flaky and kooky, tossed about by every wind of doctrine, chasing after signs and wonders and 'new things', and Satan is right there to provide his counterfeit supernatural experiences."


I was reading Revelation 13 today. This is all a perfect set up for the false prophet. He will be calling fire down from heaven, doing great signs and wonders Shocked and making the image of the Antichrist speak. Twisted Evil

I am so thankful for good teaching in Theology, etc. It can't be replaced. I beleive many things are about to happen, and are happening, on earth concerning end-times. If you are not grounded, it is going to be very sad. Crying or Very Sad

Things were not perfect at FA. We have all acknowledged that fact. However, there was valuable teaching that, I believe the critics who attended FA, will be eating their words very soon and will be scrambling to recall what was valid in order to survive. Smug Thumbs Down Bored Uh Oh Exclamation

As for me, I am thankful for a certain cornfield in Northern Indiana. Nod


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
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