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X + Y = Z Danger [message #1109] Tue, 01 January 2008 12:45 Go to next message
JRS  is currently offline JRS
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The X + Y = Z Danger

I’m relatively new to the board. With reading some this morning over in FACTNet I just had to post something here. Just something the Lord has put on my heart.

I was never a member of Faith Assembly, though I was closely associated with the teaching in the body I was in. We experienced much the same as FA. Still today I hold the Faith Message as TRUTH.

I was reading how many are stating the FA was a cult. I remember during the mid 90’s reading some about cults. I would have to say there were some of these tendencies present and could see how many look on it that way. Not in the teachings but in the people. I can’t say it’s human nature – society – or what the roots are. But in many ways things had digressed into the denominational way of thinking – I call it the X+Y=Z mentality. Denominations differ, but basically they teach – live a good life, know that Jesus died for you and you will go to heaven. Much the same things had digressed to the point on formulas on how to receive, and if things did not come to pass = sin was involved in some way. I sat under the Word, I heard the Word so the result must be Faith. The denominational churches cater to the flesh. So it seems right.
This was a worldly way of thinking in an attempt to fulfill the spiritual.

Can someone here Please Please show me where we can do anything at all apart from the Grace of God? I think most of the members here heard the teachings that came forth from FA – or should I say the TRUTHS in the WORD of GOD. We did not find them at that time by our self. We did not open our own hearts. It was the Lord Jesus that led us, guided us, gave us the privilege to sit under the anointed teaching of the Word. We twisted it to formulas – and the written word and our understanding of it became more important than the one who graciously allowed us to hear it.

It’s in Him we live and move and have our very being. I am crucified with Christ never the less I live, yet not I but Christ liveth in me.
I Praise God for the Grace and Mercy he has shown toward me.

I don’t understand how something like this can be held to:

There are no exceptions to the promises of God.
There are conditions.
If you will pay the cost to learn the conditions,



To me this sets the foundation for the worldly mind-set that one can aspire to receive the promises. The only condition should be is to Love the Lord God with all your heart.

Jim

The work that He has begun, He shall complete – line upon line and precept upon percept.
Re: X + Y = Z Danger [message #1116 is a reply to message #1109 ] Fri, 04 January 2008 19:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JWBTI  is currently offline JWBTI
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------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ --
JRS wrote:
The X + Y = Z Danger:
I don’t understand how something like this can be held to:

There are no exceptions to the promises of God.
There are conditions.
If you will pay the cost to learn the conditions,


To me this sets the foundation for the worldly mind-set that one can aspire to receive the promises. The only condition should be is to Love the Lord God with all your heart.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ----
Brother Jim,
What do we do with these passages in John 14:?
Seems to me, that there are other conditions besides Love.
Believe on me; Ask in my Name;Keep my Commandments;
Also;

1) There are no exceptions to the promises of God===John 14:14
2) There are conditions===John 14:15
3) If you will pay the cost to learn the conditions==How can we keep what we don't know ?
How can we know without spending time in Gods Word & prayer.....or would that be Works & not Grace ?


JOHN 14:
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on
me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater
works than these shall he do; because I go unto my
Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I
do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it
is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved
of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest
myself to him.

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he
will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we
will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the
word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which
sent me.

Blessings in Jesus Name:




Ron
Re: X + Y = Z Danger [message #1117 is a reply to message #1109 ] Sat, 05 January 2008 12:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JRS  is currently offline JRS
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Brother Ron,

I am in no way refuting the fact of the conditions in the Word. There are many conditions through the Word, as you have pointed out. What I am asking about is the magnification of the conditions.
Before the Lord led me to salvation I was a product of the “denominational system”. I knew that God was real and that Jesus died for me to atone for my sins. My issues were with the church itself. It was no more than man’s creation, is what I thought. That presented a problem we me because I knew also that God had established the church. It took the Holy Spirit and his Grace on my life to break down the bearer that I was allowing to stand, to be born again, then to be able to receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. There were conditions that I had to meet – YES. Could I have accomplished this on my own just by having the knowledge of them? – NO. The result was Joy unspeakable and full of Glory. It was only by the Grace and Mercy of the Lord that bought me to that point that He could reveal and open my heart, that Jesus had died for ME and the confidence that HE was in control of my life.

JOHN 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

I can’t help but wonder how this is formulated in many Christians today into a mental/physical love of God. God looks on the hearts. That is where is must begin. He provides that way as it goes on to say in verses16 & 17 and in particularly verse 26. This is what we should focus on, the work of the Holy Spirit in our hearts. Instead we decide to – put God in a box – and break everything down to formulas. We look back on the conditions for salvation and the Baptism and we’ve experienced results. Praise God. Then we establish in our minds conditions will bring results.
Are the promises of God conditional – Yes and I will say No at the same time.

PS 119:89 God’s Word is forever settled in Heaven.

A good example is Joshua, we know the story and background. He sat under Moses and bought the people into the promise land. Actually saw and experienced God, how God fought for Israel, and provided for them. Then we see Joshua, in the taking of Ai, leaning on his own understanding. Yes, it was a brilliant military action and plan. God had promised him the city and the spoil therein that they were not to touch in Jericho. This was the reason for the ambush set behind the city.
A promise, God has given them the city, yet Joshua used deception to take it. Was this a formula Joshua had by the example of the parting of the Red Sea? The Egyptians followed them in and were destroyed. Does God have to rely or use deception to fulfill his Word, I think not. Did not God fulfill his promise – even though God himself was being portrayed as a deceiver? Yes.

HOSEA 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of Knowledge.

How can we know without spending time in God’s Word & Prayer? This is a condition and at the same time it is a joy to be able to do. The question is - Why are we doing this?
To receive something? To make sure we are right before the Lord? Or is it to seek the guidance and leading of the Holy Spirit in our lives. So many times we set up formulas in this finite mind of our own, that we begin the deception within ourselves to judge ourselves (a command of scripture) and others. We know the results!
We confess our sins or use the Fiery two edged Sword of the Word against others. If not spoken, at the least in our own hearts against others.

We should be allowing the Holy Spirit to complete the work the Word has begun. Seeking Him – The author and finisher of our Faith. We are so privileged to be in the time we are in. We have Jesus himself that set an example for all of us. Did he judge anybody? – NO. He did set the example for us all. The veil of the temple was rent and we have the privilege because of His Grace and Mercy on each of us to come boldly before the throne of His Grace. We must come before him with ours hearts open before HIM, a condition – YES. Yet it is what we desire to do because of all that He has done.

We speak of FAITH and will he find Faith when He returns. Are we willing to use that Faith He has so graciously given to us and come before his throne to seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit? To through aside all of our preconceived thoughts and desires to allow God to complete the work in each and everyone of us.

We see through the 1900’s the workings of God. Out pouring of the Holy Spirit, the revivals, signs and wonders, and the out pouring of HIS Word through Bro Freeman and others. Then each and every time we’ve stepped in and – for lack of better words – put God in a box. We limited (shut off) the flow of HIS Spirit. As I type these words I know I am guilty of this. It is something I knew in my heart back then. I had limited God and put Him in a box and said – because of my knowledge of His Word that is not the direction we should go on. That’s another story.

We are but mere earthly vessels before the Lord whom HE desires to reveal His truths to, and that is because of His Grace and Mercy on us as individuals. Our condition is to seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit or should I say – allow the Holy Spirit to do the work in our hearts that God has promised He Will Do. JOHN 14:26

There are No exceptions – TRUTH
There are conditions – TRUTH
There is a cost to pay – TRUTH

We are called to fight the good fight, put on the whole armor of God, to stand strong in the Lord.
It is only by His Grace on our lives that we can begin to see the meaning of this. He didn’t call us to condemn. He gave us Himself that we might be a reflection of HIM on this earth. It is the Wisdom from the Holy Spirit that is needed to allow God to complete and fulfill HIS Word.


Grace and Peace brother,
Jim
Re: X + Y = Z Danger [message #1118 is a reply to message #1117 ] Sat, 05 January 2008 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JWBTI  is currently offline JWBTI
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Brother Jim.....Greetings
Jim said:
(What I am asking about is the magnification of the conditions.)
Rons reply:
Busted, I too have been guilty of Boxing God up into a Formula=If I do..this...this...& this.....I can get...this...this & this!?
Jim said:
(How can we know without spending time in God’s Word & Prayer? This is a condition and at the same time it is a joy to be able to do. The question is - Why are we doing this?)

Ron reply:
Why are we doing this ? In times past, maybe it was to gain Gods approvel an recongnition from God & Man!
I speak for myself..............wrong motives at times.
Jim said:
(To receive something? To make sure we are right before the Lord? Or is it to seek the guidance and leading of the Holy Spirit in our lives. So many times we set up formulas in this finite mind of our own, that we begin the deception within ourselves to judge ourselves (a command of scripture) and others. We know the results!
We confess our sins or use the Fiery two edged Sword of the Word against others. If not spoken, at the least in our own hearts against others.)

Ron reply:
Busted again: So true........I repent ! ok...ok..... who's been sending you e-mail about me ?
Jim said:
We are but mere earthly vessels before the Lord whom HE desires to reveal His truths to, and that is because of His Grace and Mercy on us as individuals. Our condition is to seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit or should I say – allow the Holy Spirit to do the work in our hearts that God has promised He Will Do. JOHN 14:26

Ron reply: Amen...Amen !

Blessing Brother Jim


Ron
Re: X + Y = Z Danger [message #1119 is a reply to message #1118 ] Sat, 05 January 2008 16:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DBH
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Brethern

Amen and Amen

So be it.


May we be so yielded to the Lord that we will hear and obey even the slighest whisper of the Holy Spirit as we are brought to the end of ourselves!

May the LORD JESUS bless you and yours!
Re: X + Y = Z Danger [message #1120 is a reply to message #1109 ] Sun, 06 January 2008 09:28 Go to previous message
JRS  is currently offline JRS
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Brethren,

Praise God that He is still working in each and every one of us. It is by His Grace and Mercy on us that He desires to complete that work He has begun. I praise God for brother Ron and his honesty, as I stand guilty also.
I Praise God for His Mercy and Grace on all of us, that He has preserved his people and it is His desire to fulfill the work in which He has begun.

I asked the question about Joshua and why he used deception to take the city of Ai. In the very next chapter it seems as though God reveals what is in his heart. The Gibeonites came in deception, as ambassadors to make a league with Joshua and the Israelites. Joshua not only broke the LAW of Moses, he didn’t take heed to the example Moses himself had lived before him. As it is written - Moses was the meekest of all men.
In Joshua 9:14,15 He asked not the counsel at the mouth of the LORD and he makes the league with the Gibeonites. Joshua had that option and chose not to use it. Consequently the Gibeonites have been a thorn in Israel’s side even up to today.
We have our example – The Lord Jesus himself. He came not to judge but to give life and that more abundantly. We have the option to seek counsel at the mouth of the Lord by the Guidance of the Holy Spirit that he has graciously given us. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding.
We had the privilege because of the Grace of God to experience first hand the teachings and understanding of the Faith message sitting under Bro Freeman and others. What is Faith but a gift of God and who are we to exalt one gift above another. In a sense it is but another tool in our tool box, or to put it differently another facet of God that he chose to reveal to his people.
I was part of the body in Poultney, Vermont. Bro Ross was my pastor/teacher. I share this because what we have gone through is possibly very much the same as what took place at Faith Assembly. It was about the end of 1988. We were so blessed by the teachings and the work God was doing. In 1984 God had done the work of moving the whole church from Minnesota to Vermont. A time that I personally hold very close and dear to my heart. It was a time of God’s leading by the Holy Spirit. I find my self at a lose for word’s to fully describe the experience. It’s an experience that one knows beyond all understanding that God has spoken and is in control. It was very very similar to salvation and when God opened my heart. Oh the Joy and The peace that one is filled with.
Then around 1988 (not exactly sure) it seemed at the time the Lord giving indications that the teaching of the Word should stop. We just couldn’t fathom that. Stop the revelation of the Word of God. Just didn’t seem like that could be of God. Bro Ross was dedicated to the Word and had the same desire and drive of Bro Freeman, that the end is near and the Word Must go forth. I believe we ALL missed it at that time. We have so must of the Word and God and God Himself had to do the work in all of our hearts. We were so focused on the Written Word we were not hearing the voice of the Lord. In essence we were setting our understanding of the written Word before God – it became our God. We can see the results – We’ve live it. The Faith Message had it’s time when God wanted it to go forth and I Praise God to have been part of it.
My heart is heavy just thinking about it. If we would have obeyed that still small voice and sought the Lord for His Will, how much different things would be today?

Yet I rejoice that God by His Mercy and Grace has preserved me and others. Do I fault the leaders? NO. Did God speak to them to stop teaching? Possibly Is it my place to put blame and judge. NO…NO. It is my place to come boldly unto the throne of His Grace with an open heart and KNOW HIM.
Can we really cry out as the bride did in the Song of Solomon 7:10 I am my beloved’s and his desire is towards me.

To really grasp the Nature of God one must grasp the Desires of the True and Living God, our Lord and Savoir JESUS.

May the Grace, Peace and Mercy of our Lord abound in your hearts.

Brother Jim
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