Home » Discussion Area » Bible Issues » Things to Come
| Things to Come [message #13881] |
Mon, 01 May 2023 02:40  |
 Mark L
Messages: 834
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
|
|
Here is what I see as to what is coming in the world
Most of what I say here is just obvious to me. Some came from reading I've done in secular sources and then put some thought to. And some I think the Lord gave me some wisdom. Some I have spoken of in other threads here as well but not all.
We need to always remember when dealing with end-time stuff that it is the "day of the Lord" not the day of the devil.
Isaiah 26/20
Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
I read many yrs ago Gerald Derstines testimony about getting the Baptism of the HS. It was an interesting experience to read about but one thing always stuck with me. There was a prophecy about the end times which said the amount God has poured out his Spirit in the history of the world compared to the end times was like a few drops in a 5 gal pail. In other words most of the pouring out will be in our time.
1. Almost all these things will follow the Gog war which as I have said is on the horizon. I said that about 8-9 yrs ago prior to the Russia/Ukraine thing going on where now everyone is talking about it.
2. The anti-Christ will arise into his power base in Europe. He has to be in place for him to sign the peace treaty with Israel that will begin the trib.
3. Prophets and apostles will arise worldwide in the 10's of thousands. The church will not stand without them as they are the only ones with the anointing and authority to deal with the world and the powers in the heavens.
4. Wars and rumors of wars. Not sure if I said this before or not. Something has to take out China's military economic and diplomatic power. There can't be a world power like that to stand against the Antichrist. He will arise into a place prepared for him. That will not be entirely supernatural. I think it will be a nuclear war with India.
5. The removal of America as a world power. I think this will happen just before the Gog war. All I ever heard through the faith message or the charismatic church is about China or Chinese soldiers in America and nuclear destruction. Ok well maybe. I always believed that but now I'm not so sure. Anyway initially at least I think David Wilkersons vision of catastrophic destruction of New York City will be the catalyst. A very deep wound in the heart of America. Along with judicial malaise and the rise of a dictator. America will just turn inward, turn its back on the world and close its doors.
6. A great breakthrough coming in science. In many areas which will change the entire scientific outlook of the world. It will change our understanding of the universe and our origins as well as what makes us human.
7. I have done a fair bit of reading and some thinking on the ancient world mainly prior to the flood. As I have said before I think their intelligence far exceeded ours. We were made a "little lower than the angels" Its all been downhill since the garden. (Rom. 8/20) The tower of Babel was built with science spiritual understanding and wisdom brought over from the flood. Refugees from there brought with them some of that wisdom and settled in ancient Egypt. That wisdom was kept hidden in the temples until 2500 BC or so then brought out for some reason and used to build the Giza pyramids. The purpose and use of both the tower of Babel and the pyramids was almost entirely spiritual. As were all the other pyramids around the world. Which is something the ancient world knew a great deal about and the modern world nothing.
The point here is there are myths stories and beliefs which speak of repositories of ancient wisdom hidden in ancient archaeological sites. One or more will be found and the anti-Christ will use that along with the new science to remake our world.
8. Evolution will be completely discredited and replaced with something partly science and partly mystical (spiritual)
9. Tidal waves (several) of mysticism odd spiritualities and the occult crashing onto our western modern world.
10. Ok. Here is where I go from dipping my little toe into this stuff to taking a deep dive.
Dan 2/43
Whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mix themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another as iron is not mixed with clay.
This has to mean something significant in that it is right in an important passage on the history of the world. I think that originally in the passage there was a lot more info that was later edited out by an anointed redactor.
There are various theories here mostly either referring to other nations mixing with Rome (non-charismatic) or some sort of demonic with humans (Gen 6) I do not believe that is possible (by divine fiat) outside of taking on a human body. (temporarily)
The passage uses the word "they". Which has to mean some kind of personality. So here is my take. I think in some form it will involve transhumanism
That means to me in a somewhat simplistic sentence that they are going to create a new kind of people. Incorporating scientific and mystical understanding from before the flood along with the modern advances in transhumanism ( definition below) keeping in mind that there is a great breakthrough in science coming. In other words people that are human but not human. Probably in some way superhuman.
trans humanism a philosophical and scientific movement that advocates the use of current and emerging technologies--such as genetic engineering, cryonics, artificial intelligence (AI), and nanotechnology--to augment human capabilities and improve the human condition.
Dan. 2/43 They shall mingle . . . they shall not cleave. THEY
In short, I think that following the Gog war the world is going to change dramatically.
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: Dan. 7/25
[Updated on: Mon, 01 May 2023 03:15]
Fires will be kindled to testify that two and two make four. Swords will be drawn to prove that leaves are green in summer.”
G.K. Chesterton
|
|
| |
| Re: Things to Come [message #13883 is a reply to message #13882] |
Mon, 01 May 2023 12:27  |
Mark L
Messages: 834
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
|
|
Hmmm. Same at my house for the last 2 mon. Not kidney stones but had the same effect. Not pleasant. Hardly left the house. He delivered me too and I just got through it. What a relief. Everything working properly.
Fires will be kindled to testify that two and two make four. Swords will be drawn to prove that leaves are green in summer.”
G.K. Chesterton
|
|
| |
| Re: Things to Come [message #13885 is a reply to message #13881] |
Tue, 02 May 2023 05:15 |
 |
william
Messages: 1451
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
|
|
Quote:3. Prophets and apostles will arise worldwide in the 10's of thousands. The church will not stand without them as they are the only ones with the anointing and authority to deal with the world and the powers in the heavens
This one is tough for me to chew on... I'm not saying you are wrong, it's just hard for me to wrap my mind around multitudes of apostles and prophets.
Biblical history is replete with contrary evidence. The opposite seems to carry the day when apostasy becomes widespread.
I know a lot of things could have happened during the so-called silent years between Malachi and John the Baptist, maybe some things were not recorded, but His first advent seemed to be categorized by that one voice crying in the wilderness.
My mind tells me that this shouldn't be the case at the glorious second advent but where is the Biblical precedence?
There's evidence for a lot of false prophets doing and saying things that could, if possible, deceive the elect, but multitudes of true prophets?
I suppose you could count the 144,000 that will be returning with Him... but your context, I think, is right before Antichrist appears:
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Anyway, just a few more thoughts!
Blessings,
William
[Updated on: Tue, 02 May 2023 05:20]
I want to believe!
|
|
|
| Re: Things to Come [message #13886 is a reply to message #13881] |
Tue, 02 May 2023 05:40 |
|
william
Messages: 1451
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
|
|
Quote:4. Wars and rumors of wars. Not sure if I said this before or not. Something has to take out China's military economic and diplomatic power. There can't be a world power like that to stand against the Antichrist. He will arise into a place prepared for him. That will not be entirely supernatural. I think it will be a nuclear war with India.
I guess I should have re-read this before my first question concerning whether or not the rest of the world would be in league, or at odds, with the Antichrist.
It does pose another question, and you've probably already answered it in your posts on Gog & Magog, but does it really matter how powerful the rest of the nations are, when God stops those armies that will surround Israel?
Blessings,
William
[Updated on: Tue, 02 May 2023 16:44]
I want to believe!
|
|
|
| Re: Things to Come [message #13887 is a reply to message #13881] |
Tue, 02 May 2023 06:14 |
|
william
Messages: 1451
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
|
|
Quote:5. The removal of America as a world power. I think this will happen just before the Gog war. All I ever heard through the faith message or the charismatic church is about China or Chinese soldiers in America and nuclear destruction. Ok well maybe. I always believed that but now I'm not so sure. Anyway initially at least I think David Wilkersons vision of catastrophic destruction of New York City will be the catalyst. A very deep wound in the heart of America. Along with judicial malaise and the rise of a dictator. America will just turn inward, turn its back on the world and close its doors.
I too have heard a lot of stuff that's been bandied around lately. But the stuff concerning the USA, most of it, presupposes the idea that we are a "Christian" nation; how about losing that notion, and, at the very least, think about what would happen if our support for Israel vanished... would we, could we, find parity with the other nations with respect to God's Judgment against ALL of the other kingdoms of mankind?
Daniel's prophetic vision doesn't discriminate between this kingdom, or that kingdom, when the times of the Gentiles ends--all are destroyed when He sets up His kingdom. I take this to mean the political systems, and not necessarily all of the individuals that comprise these nations, many of whom are Christian...
Isaiah 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
Blessings,
William
[Updated on: Tue, 02 May 2023 06:16]
I want to believe!
|
|
|
| Re: Things to Come [message #13888 is a reply to message #13881] |
Tue, 02 May 2023 08:06 |
|
william
Messages: 1451
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
|
|
Quote:7. I have done a fair bit of reading and some thinking on the ancient world mainly prior to the flood. As I have said before I think their intelligence far exceeded ours. We were made a "little lower than the angels" Its all been downhill since the garden. (Rom. 8/20) The tower of Babel was built with science spiritual understanding and wisdom brought over from the flood. Refugees from there brought with them some of that wisdom and settled in ancient Egypt. That wisdom was kept hidden in the temples until 2500 BC or so then brought out for some reason and used to build the Giza pyramids. The purpose and use of both the tower of Babel and the pyramids was almost entirely spiritual. As were all the other pyramids around the world. Which is something the ancient world knew a great deal about and the modern world nothing.
Interesting stuff that I've never thought about!
It does, however, bring up a point that should be explored:
On the one hand you've got the devolution of mankind... even going back a couple of hundred years ago you've got men writing books that stagger the imagination, not only the insightful ideas presented, i.e. the content of these books, but the amount of labor and research that went into their life's work, it seems impossible that they could have done these things without the luxuries our modern age bring to the table. Could Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary be produced today, by one man, without using modern devices--that he didn't have?
Keep going backwards in time and the case for devolution gets stronger.
Yes, we are awash in knowledge today, but it's accumulated knowledge, made available by previous generations of men whose intellects seem gigantic in comparison to our own.
On the other hand, we do have that great foundation of accumulated knowledge that we can access with our fingertips... so does that contradict what I'm calling devolution? Are we smarter now because we have skyscrapers? Personally I don't think so because of that downhill slide you mentioned, but really, do godless men, who've been fed a steady diet of evolutionary theory, think that way? I mean, who among us hasn't grappled with the idea of those cave men of yesteryear?
Daniel even says that in the latter days knowledge will be increased. That seems to be the case in our time but does this increase of knowledge mean that mankind has progressed in his intellect?
Well, I guess we could look at some of the evidence and be able to ascertain one way or another--are we closer to God who is the original storehouse of wisdom and knowledge and who laughs at those who imagine vain things (how much of what we count as knowledge is included here?)
Psa 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. (The whole Psalm should be read for the context!)
Anyway, my point in all of this, as we look at the "Things to Come", is it wise to think that this future world that we're talking about is going to somehow evolve into something greater than, say, the world of Job or Abraham, or even those who lived before the flood?
I don't think so. Not without some help (i.e. knowledge that has been around in the spiritual realm for a very long time)... We seem doomed to peon status--serving a spiritual master that has nothing but bondage in store for us, as we slide downward. This may give credence to what you said about mankind getting a boost from "spiritual" sources!
As Christians, we choose to look to look to that other storehouse of spiritual knowledge, enumerated for us in the pages of our handbooks--the Bible, and guaranteed by the One we trust--Jesus!-- in whom are all of the riches of wisdom and knowledge!
Col 1:26-28: [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Another thought to explore is the language barrier God places on mankind at the tower of Babel... is there a parallel to be found in Acts 2 when that barrier seems to be removed?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Blessings,
William
[Updated on: Tue, 02 May 2023 12:52]
I want to believe!
|
|
|
| Re: Things to Come [message #13889 is a reply to message #13885] |
Wed, 03 May 2023 14:53 |
Mark L
Messages: 834
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
|
|
william wrote on Tue, 02 May 2023 05:15Quote:3. Prophets and apostles will arise worldwide in the 10's of thousands. The church will not stand without them as they are the only ones with the anointing and authority to deal with the world and the powers in the heavens
This one is tough for me to chew on... I'm not saying you are wrong, it's just hard for me to wrap my mind around multitudes of apostles and prophets.
Biblical history is replete with contrary evidence. The opposite seems to carry the day when apostasy becomes widespread.
I know a lot of things could have happened during the so-called silent years between Malachi and John the Baptist, maybe some things were not recorded, but His first advent seemed to be categorized by that one voice crying in the wilderness.
My mind tells me that this shouldn't be the case at the glorious second advent but where is the Biblical precedence?
There's evidence for a lot of false prophets doing and saying things that could, if possible, deceive the elect, but multitudes of true prophets?
I suppose you could count the 144,000 that will be returning with Him... but your context, I think, is right before Antichrist appears:
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Anyway, just a few more thoughts!
Blessings,
William
I think both ministries were very common in the early church. Also in reading Samuel/Kings/Chronicles, you see groups of prophets coming and going. 1Sam.10/10 for eg. So they were very common there as well. Jesus is coming for a church without spot or wrinkle which to me speaks of a rapture ready church. Or in different terms a church that has come to maturity. Eph. 4/11 For that to happen we have to have the involvement of those ministries in our churches.
[Updated on: Wed, 03 May 2023 15:04]
Fires will be kindled to testify that two and two make four. Swords will be drawn to prove that leaves are green in summer.”
G.K. Chesterton
|
|
|
| Re: Things to Come [message #13890 is a reply to message #13884] |
Wed, 03 May 2023 14:56 |
Mark L
Messages: 834
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
|
|
william wrote on Tue, 02 May 2023 04:27There's so much here and it's overwhelming to think about doing everything at once, so better to do it piecemeal, if that's okay? (I know your time is valuable as well!)
Quote:2. The anti-Christ will arise into his power base in Europe. He has to be in place for him to sign the peace treaty with Israel that will begin the trib.
Do you think that at this time the Antichrist will have world support or will he appear only as a protector of Israel during a time when other world leaders are threatening the nation?
Blessings,
William
I don't think he will be in world power at that point. So I think he steps up to protect Israel
Fires will be kindled to testify that two and two make four. Swords will be drawn to prove that leaves are green in summer.”
G.K. Chesterton
|
|
|
| Re: Things to Come [message #13891 is a reply to message #13887] |
Wed, 03 May 2023 15:01 |
Mark L
Messages: 834
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
|
|
william wrote on Tue, 02 May 2023 06:14Quote:5. The removal of America as a world power. I think this will happen just before the Gog war. All I ever heard through the faith message or the charismatic church is about China or Chinese soldiers in America and nuclear destruction. Ok well maybe. I always believed that but now I'm not so sure. Anyway initially at least I think David Wilkersons vision of catastrophic destruction of New York City will be the catalyst. A very deep wound in the heart of America. Along with judicial malaise and the rise of a dictator. America will just turn inward, turn its back on the world and close its doors.
I too have heard a lot of stuff that's been bandied around lately. But the stuff concerning the USA, most of it, presupposes the idea that we are a "Christian" nation; how about losing that notion, and, at the very least, think about what would happen if our support for Israel vanished... would we, could we, find parity with the other nations with respect to God's Judgment against ALL of the other kingdoms of mankind?
Daniel's prophetic vision doesn't discriminate between this kingdom, or that kingdom, when the times of the Gentiles ends--all are destroyed when He sets up His kingdom. I take this to mean the political systems, and not necessarily all of the individuals that comprise these nations, many of whom are Christian...
Isaiah 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment until the indignation be overpast.
Blessings,
William
If you mean by that America will just join the rest of the world and let Israel go then that could be. I don't think it is likely because one very big reason America supports Israel is because a huge swath of public opinion supports it. It cuts right through all demographic and racial and age income and education classes.
[Updated on: Wed, 03 May 2023 15:08]
Fires will be kindled to testify that two and two make four. Swords will be drawn to prove that leaves are green in summer.”
G.K. Chesterton
|
|
|
| Re: Things to Come [message #13892 is a reply to message #13886] |
Wed, 03 May 2023 15:13 |
Mark L
Messages: 834
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
|
|
william wrote on Tue, 02 May 2023 05:40Quote:4. Wars and rumors of wars. Not sure if I said this before or not. Something has to take out China's military economic and diplomatic power. There can't be a world power like that to stand against the Antichrist. He will arise into a place prepared for him. That will not be entirely supernatural. I think it will be a nuclear war with India.
I guess I should have re-read this before my first question concerning whether or not the rest of the world would be in league, or at odds, with the Antichrist.
It does pose another question, and you've probably already answered it in your posts on Gog & Magog, but does it really matter how powerful the rest of the nations are, when God stops those armies that will surround Israel?
Blessings,
William
Sure but I don't think it is entirely supernatural.
Fires will be kindled to testify that two and two make four. Swords will be drawn to prove that leaves are green in summer.”
G.K. Chesterton
|
|
|
| Re: Things to Come [message #13893 is a reply to message #13881] |
Wed, 03 May 2023 16:30 |
Mark L
Messages: 834
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
|
|
A bit more thought to the point of Apostles and Prophets. It seems like everywhere you look today everyone is looking for the rapture to happen. And do I ever hope they are right. I would love to go. I really think they are dreaming though.
My opinion in general is the time between the Gog war and the trib is when God is going to deal with his church. Those who are ready will get raptured with the balance of the church kept safely aside so God can continue to work with them. The point though is that God works through his 5/f ministry. According to Eph.4/11 it will take all 5 min. to accomplish that work of maturity.
I think there have been both offices all throughout history. John Knox and George Fox both functioned (at times) as prophets. I think Patrick of Ireland as well as some of those who followed him were apostles. In short those offices have always been present. But to fair somewhat rare.
In reading Luke 21 and Matt.24 we see a picture of the endtimes being a time of confusion in both the world and spiritual realms.
Those offices along with the rest of the ministry are there to guide and lead. No one else has the anointing.
Revelation and other places in the bible speak of the powers of the heavens being shaken in the end times. You see some of that in the book of Acts (along with reading in secular history) It's the church led by apostles who will do that. Apostles carry that authority. Of course, speaking in general here.
I believe the reason we see these offices as something special or out of the ordinary is because of their relative rarity over the last 2000 yrs. So they have tended to get lifted up as some great ones. The truth is they are just ordinary men (mostly) who have special gifts to lead the church.
They will be numerous enough in the coming days so that face to face ministry will function in all our churches. Both over the pulpit and personally. They won't be operating like the pope.
Apparently the Corinthian church had so many prophets functioning that Paul had to give guidelines to them.
So my point to many apostles is because there are many Christians
Fires will be kindled to testify that two and two make four. Swords will be drawn to prove that leaves are green in summer.”
G.K. Chesterton
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Sat Apr 27 22:38:23 UTC 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01049 seconds
|
Members
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
E-mail to friend 
