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Christian Ethics: Introduction [message #12316] Sun, 17 December 2017 18:12 Go to next message
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The Study of Christian Ethics

Introduction to Christian Ethics


It is the study of the principles & practise of right and wrong in light of the scriptures.
- Christianity into conduct
- doctrine into deeds
The Greek word meaning ethics is “custom”

Ethics is 3/4 of life because conduct is 3/4 of life. Every decision a person makes is on some moral or ethical standard. Our morals & ethics are based on everything we have seen been taught or read.
John 14/6 the christian has a standard or norm to base his life on. 1 Tim.3/16. Since conduct is 3/4 of life we should know what to base our life on.


a) christian ethics are grounded in its Jewish heritage. The OT is fulfilled in the new.
Matt. 5/17-18,39 The basis of Jesus teaching is the OT

b) We need to distinguish between christian ethics and other ethical standards
christian ethics are based on the bible.
All other ethics we call philosophical ethics
christian ethics deals with the same questions but has different answers

c) Christian ethics believes that Christ is the source of all truth and light as it is revealed in his word.

Differences between Christian & Philosophical Ethics

a) They are incomplete and inadequate as they have no answers
b) We criticize them because they make absolute the finite. They make mans reason the absolute and final source of revelation.
c)They say reason alone is a sufficient guide for all moral conduct. Socrates said if you want to do right you will. 1 Cor.1 mans reason is fallen and can't reason properly.
d)They cannot agree on what is the highest good. Seminaries and teachers are changing their views constantly.

The Relationship between Religion and Conduct

- The OT Canaanites practised human sacrifice
- Some eastern Indian religions have temple prostitutes.
- The liberal churches would say no drinking or gambling etc is the height of legalism

In the bible conduct is the essence of religion. Christian ethics is not based on rules only principles. It just gives basic principles based on the word so we can make a decision. The difference between rules and principles is love. Rom.13/8-10. Christian ethics are based not only on principles but a living person. Jesus is our standard.

Principles of conduct

a) Holiness Eph. 1/3-4
b) Righteousness Titus2/11-12, Rom. 6/12-13,
c) Just and Merciful. Micah 6/8, Luke 6/31, Matt 5/7
d)Love John 13/34-35

[Updated on: Sun, 18 November 2018 21:08]

Christian Ethics: History #1 [message #12317 is a reply to message #12316] Sun, 17 December 2017 18:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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The History of Ethics

Moral and ethical conduct dates from the time of mans creation. Gen.2 man is endowed with moral faculties. He is able to make moral decisions. Ethical teaching appears in all religions.

1/ The Egyptian book of the dead. 16th century B.C. It shows in part scales. A mans life had to line up with righteousness & truth or he will be doomed. It shows that the quality of ones life before death determined his happiness after death. This kind of ethics appeared in every nation there ever was.

2/ Hebrew OT 3500 B.C. The ethics of the Hebrew OT was the highest ever reached until Christianity. It demanded holiness. Lev. 19/17-18, Lev. 19/2, 1 Peter 1/15-16, Eph. 1

3/ Greek Ethics

a) Socrates He is called the first moral philosopher. 469-399B.C.
He dealt with 2 moral questions. Virtue and Justice. He equated them with knowledge. ie: if you educate a man he won't do unjust things. If a man knows what is right he will do it. An educated man is a righteous man.

b) Plato 427-347 B.C. He believed perfection attained in the 4 cardinal virtues.
Temperance, Courage, Justice, Wisdom Develop these and you will be perfect.

c) Aristotle 384-322 B.C. He was the founder of Greek ethics as a system. He believed mans highest good was happiness. Whatever makes you happy is good. Ie: mans well being. You choose happiness as an end in itself. One chooses honor, pleasure, wisdom, goodness and you do these things to make you happy and it becomes the pathway to happiness. Aristotles golden mean . . . don't do anything to excess

d) Epicurus 341-70 B.C. Basically Hedonism. Pleasure is good and pain is evil. Mans chief goal in life is pleasure. Drunkenness fornication or whatever gives you pleasure.

e) The Stoics Zeno & Physippius were the 2 founders. The movement lasted from about 294 B.C. - 200 A.D. Acts 17/18. They said pain was the highest good. They were passionless and apathetic. Grief pain, joy, happiness, will not affect the wise man. Peace of mind and tranquility are the highest good . To arrive there you have to practise rigid asceticism.
- resignation to ones fate
- inner harmony
- complete self control

[Updated on: Sun, 18 November 2018 21:29]

Christian Ethics: History #2 [message #12319 is a reply to message #12317] Sun, 17 December 2017 18:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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4/ Early Christian Ethics

It was the religion and worship of a person and not a philosophy. The whole NT is a moral and ethical paper. About the 4th century the Holy Spirit left the church because everything spiritual began to diminish. The church became so worldly that Christians went to deserts and monasteries to live.

Augustine 354-430 A.D. He was an outstanding theologian of the early church. He systematized christian ethics but was influenced by Greek philosophy. He tried to Christianized Plato's virtues. He recommended asceticism as the highest good.

5/ Ethics of the Middle Ages

This was the period of Scholasticism (colleges & universities). They tried to harmonize faith & reason and turn that into a philosophy.
Anselm, Abelard, Thomas Aquinas Aquinas was influenced by Aristotle. He agreed with him but said happiness is having god. This is right but he was influenced by Aristotle so have to be careful of his teachings

6/ Mysticism 1260-1327 A.D. Master Echard
They repudiated all ritual and sacramental religion and sought to find God through prayer and meditation. The highest good is to know nothing think nothing and speak nothing but God.

7/ The Reformation

They repudiated Roman Catholic monasticism and ritual etc.
- Martin Luther. He didn't teach to much holiness just justification by faith.
- Pluralists – taught a holy life
- John Knox/ Wesley
- Puritans

8/ 18-19 Century
Different ethical systems arose. Evolution/ pessimism/ duty/ power/ value/ utilitarianism

9/ 20th Century
All kinds of philosophies arose
social gospel/ modernism etc.

Mark Here. In the 21st century of course its anything goes and confusion reigns

[Updated on: Sun, 18 November 2018 21:28]

The three basic questions of Ethics #1 [message #12326 is a reply to message #12319] Fri, 22 December 2017 16:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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The three basic questions of Ethics

1/ What is mans highest good?
Ethics deals with mans goal in life. Man is aware there is a higher purpose for him. The purpose of ethics is to discover what that highest good is. Al men are wrestling with this question

2/ What is the standard of norm or final authority for what is right and wrong. God? Intellect? scripture? popular opinion? custom? education? philosophy? Mans conscience tells him to do right but doesn't tell him what that right is. Our conscience as Christians has to be educated to the word.

3/ Is man completely free to choose to act morally and ethically?
Does he have freedom of will? Is he controlled by Fate? Predestination? A man is endowed with a measure of self-determination. Because he has this he is responsible for his actions and attitudes.

A tree cannot be convicted of homicide if it falls on someone. A hawk is not convicted for robbing a sparrows nest. They have no moral or ethical actions. You can blame the hawk but not morally & ethically. According to biblical ethics part from the new birth man is not capable of choosing the good. In mans freedom of choice man will always choose sin. Maybe humanitarianism or good things but not the highest good.

[Updated on: Sun, 18 November 2018 21:28]

The three basic questions of Ethics #2 [message #12327 is a reply to message #12326] Fri, 22 December 2017 17:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Question # 1 What is mans highest good?

1/ The American Ethic. ie: The Ethics of Hedonism or Pleasure

It is the Pursuit of happiness as an end in itself. There are two kinds. Individualistic hedonism & universal hedonism.

a) Individualistic hedonism.

This is the pursuit of happiness & pleasure being the goal in life. All training in school & advertising is geared to this. The American is taught to avoid all discomfort and pain. Being happy is the reason for ones existence on earth. We're not against happiness its just not an end in itself. This ethic says the the highest good is the individual enjoyment of the greatest amount of pleasure. If life fails to give us that then we are a failure. Medical and the drug companies have labored to mask pain & its reality. The undertaker dresses up a corpse so people won't have a chance to see real life.

All training in life especially in school is geared toward happiness as an end in itself. Christian philosophy in the institutional church and school teaches Christianity is a life of happiness. They teach self realization, pride, self esteem, self confidence. Most radio magazine and TV advertising is geared toward the the American goal of happiness and pleasure. Prepared foods and labor saving devices give us time to enjoy boats, pleasure trips and good things. The reason a man works is to make money to enjoy life.

b) Universal Hedonism.

This is the same thing universally applied. This philosophy commends the actions that provide the most happiness for the most people. John Stuart Mills promotes this.
We say actions are not the best or right because they help many people. That could justify mercy killing divorce, robin hood activities, prostitution cannibalism. ie: the end justifies the means.
Gods answer to all forms of hedonism in the church & out is 1 John 2/16-17

2/ The Ethics of Self Denial. Stoicism

When this was first introduced into Christianity it was called monasticism. Jesus words to the rich young ruler were taken literally.
Anthony in Egypt. 250 AD
Monasticism is based on certain fallacies
a) a double standard of morality for layman vs clergy
b) the practice of extreme self denial promotes holiness

The monasteries became centers of corruption and sodomy. The error of monasticism is that it is an attempt to flee the sinful world. We are called to be in it and learn to live a life that glorifies God.
Matt. 5, Matt 28, john 17/15-16

Ascetic tendencies within Protestantism

Holiness churches, Amish, Old Order, Pentecostals all emphasize a life of self denial toward certain practices in the world. beer, dance, movies, lipstick, etc.

Four Different Tendencies in Protestantism

a) Do's and don'ts become ends in themselves
b) results in works salvation
c) it is the central message of their teaching ir: the ascetic life.
d)There is no sound basic teaching to under gird their call to a separated life.

[Updated on: Sun, 18 November 2018 21:10]

The three basic questions of Ethics #3 [message #12328 is a reply to message #12327] Fri, 22 December 2017 17:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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3/ The Ethics of Duty

The highest good is to do your duty. Emanuel Kent developed this theory. There is a universal moral law in each of us. A sense of "ought" We "ought" to do this or that. He also called it a categorical imperative ie: duty for duty's sake.

4/ Works Ethics
Christianity is more than duty. It involves faith, truth and the spreading of the gospel. It is not just serving and doing your duty. Some of these ethics are found in all denominations

5/ Ethics of Self Realization

The harmonious development of all your talents.
a) Live by the golden rule
b) Have faith in yourself and your abilities
c) Develop a well rounded personality. Self respect, self esteem,
this was taught by Helgro, Plato, Socrates, Peale

6/ The Ethics of Love

This is the ethics of . . .
- the world council of churches
- the spirit of unity
- the denominations and seminaries
- the neo-orthodox teachers
The highest good here is to love your neighbor. The problem is it gives no standard of behavior. It applies no content to their ethics.

7/ The Ethics of Power
Hitler- the strong are right

8/ The Ethics of Intuition
Follow the inner light ie: Quakers

9/ The Ethics of Pessimism

The world is totally evil

10/ The Ethics of Marxism

The basis of communism. Anything that furthers communism is good
eg. war killing, deceit. communism is the highest good.

11/ The Ethics of evolution.
Everything is moving toward a higher good.

[Updated on: Sun, 18 November 2018 21:11]

The three basic questions of Ethics #4 [message #12329 is a reply to message #12328] Fri, 22 December 2017 17:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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12/ The Biblical Ethic

The biblical ethic is two things

a) Matt. 6/33 Seek Gods kingdom and its righteousness
b) Matt7/2-13 Doing the will of God.

The biblical ethic is seek the kingdom of God and you get that by doing the will of God. The reason Jesus came was to bring the kingdom of God to the earth. Whatever else is important in life we had better find out what his will is.
A person is . . .
- in or out of the kingdom
- righteous or unrighteousness
- christian or not
on the basis of these two scriptures.
Mark 1/14-15 Jesus mentioned the church twice and the kingdom of God over 100 times. The church is not the end. The kingdom of God is. The biggest thing is the righteous rule of God on the earth
Christian ethics doesn't tech rules. It establishes principles.

[Updated on: Sun, 18 November 2018 21:11]

The three basic questions of Ethics #5 [message #12334 is a reply to message #12329] Sun, 24 December 2017 17:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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What Bro. Freeman believes are the 10 most important principles in the christian life.

1/ An abiding unfailing trust in God in all circumstances. Without faith you can't implement love. Peter couldn't walk on water because of a lack of faith not love. That doesn't exclude love
Heb.11/6, 10/23, Mark 11/22-24, Rom. 8/28, Acts 14/22, 11 Tim.4/7

2/ Sincerity and truthfulness before God and man. (as contrasted with hypocrisy and deceit) Eph. 4/25, 1Thess.2/4, Matt6/1-6
It is a constant temptation to not to speak absolute truth. You can't distort or hide truth to not hurt someones feelings

3/ Genuine humility before God and man as contrasted with pride. Self righteous vs meekness. Its meekness not weakness. Speaking anointed truth is not to be equated with pride and lack of love. Truth is the essence of Christianity not unity. Unity follows truth. Meekness - Rom.12/3, humility - Phil.2/-8

4/ A forgiving and merciful spirit towards all. Matt. 18/21-25
One motive for forgiving is so that God will forgive us. Another one is is because we love.

5/ The practice of the separated life. There must be inward and outward purity. Matt.5/48,1Peter 1/6, Rom. 12/1-2, 1Cor. 6/12

How do we know right from wrong?

a) conduct would be right or wrong according to the bible
b) would it glorify God
c) would it edify me
d) does it avoid the appearance of evil
e) does it a bro. or sis. to stumble
f) is it a positive seeking after Gods righteousness

6/ An unqualified love for God and ones neighbor.
Luke 10/25-37 You can't really love god unless you give loving service to your neighbor. God sends us to serve others in the body and out. Matt 7/12, 1John 3/13-22
How do you give loving service to your neighbor? Parable of the good Samaritan. When you see a need meet it. This does not mean the church is to minister materially to the world. As individuals we are to translate our love for others into deeds.

7/ Complete self denial and dedication to discipleship. Even to the loss of friends family position possessions & life. Luke 9/57-62

8/ A personal evangelistic desire to fulfill the great commission is an expression of sharing the good news of the kingdom with others. Matt. 28/19-20, Mark 16/17-20, Acts 8

9/ Faithfulness to God's word and will.
Matt.7/21, Luke 16/10-12, rev. 2/10, Heb. 2/4

10/A sincere concern to uphold at all cost the purity of the Faith. Truth is basic not love or unity.
11Tim. 4/1-3, Acts 20/26-31, Phil.1/27, Jude 3, 1 Thess. 2/4, 2 John

[Updated on: Sun, 18 November 2018 21:11]

The three basic questions of Ethics #6 [message #12335 is a reply to message #12334] Sun, 24 December 2017 18:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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The 3 basic questions of Ethics

Question #2 What is the standard of norm or final authority

. . . for what is right and wrong. God? Intellect? scripture? popular opinion? custom? education? philosophy? Mans conscience tells him to do right but doesn't tell him what that right is.
The ultimate standard for right and wrong is God and his word
Ps.97/1-2, 1 Peter 1/16, Matt. 5/48, Ps.119, 137
Christian ethics has its source in God and his righteousness. Our righteousness is to be the same as Gods. Matt 5/48 What is God's righteousness? His own moral holiness and perfections of character. Which is to be the standard for all men. He is holy just merciful loving sinless & perfect. In a word righteous
In the NT to be righteous as God is not an abstract or philosophical truth. An ethical ideal of Christianity is expressed through a person- Jesus Christ. John 1/14-18 Jesus is the perfect illustration of what he taught. He is our standard or norm.He never points to anyone but himself. Not even the Father. 1Peter2/21, Luke 6/40, John 14/6-9, John 15/1-5

Question # 3 Is man completely free to choose to act morally and ethically?

Does he have freedom of will? Is he controlled by Fate? Predestination?


A man is endowed with a measure of self-determination. Because he has this he is responsible for his actions and attitudes.
A tree cannot be convicted of homicide if it falls on someone. A hawk is not convicted for robbing a sparrows nest. They have no moral or ethical actions. You can blame the hawk but not morally & ethically. According to biblical ethics apart from the new birth man is not capable of choosing the good. In mans freedom of choice man will always choose sin. Maybe humanitarianism or good things but not the highest good.

[Updated on: Sun, 18 November 2018 21:23]

Old Testament Ethics [message #12339 is a reply to message #12335] Tue, 26 December 2017 02:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Old Testament Ethics

1/ OT ethics are based on revelation. Even if they are not the same as NT ethics. They are not based on reason as in Gr. ethics or on social needs as in Babylonian or Egyptian ethics. They are grounded in the revealed will of God.

2/ It has a religious basis. Some ethical systems don't.

3/ The ethics of the OT are incomplete. Full revelation came in the NT. God revealed his will to Israel as they were ready to receive it. Matt5-7, 1 Peter 1/9-12

4/ OT ethics are the ethics of law.They are centered around the 10 commandments. In the NT it is grace and centered around the sermon on the mount.

5/ The eternal moral and ethical principles in the law are valued to any age. It is the forms and rituals that are done away. The OT was not just a system of legal codes but principles all through. Ps 51,Ps. 24/3-4, It dealt with the heart not just outward forms and rituals Hosea6/6, Amos 5/24, 1 Sam. 15/22

6/ The OT is valid because of 11 Tim 3/16-17. It is not old just older. You can't understand the NT if you don't understand the OT. It is part of Gods revealed will. When 11 Tim. 3/16-17 was given all they had was the OT.

7/ Jesus came to make explicit what was implicit in the law. He fulfilled the law and the prophets. Righteousness came by faith not law. Gen.15

8/ The 10 commandments are often called the moral law of Israel. They are the supreme expression of of the revelation in the OT dispensation. It was a God revealed standard of righteousness and the basis of OT morality and ethics. Its inner principles are eternal. The 10 commandments are not carried over into the dispensation of grace as a legal code under which the christian is placed. Yet every principle expressed in the 10 commandments are clearly taught in spirit. It was always a message of faith and not always law in both OT & NT.

[Updated on: Sun, 18 November 2018 21:24]

Old Testament Ethics: The Why Questions [message #12637 is a reply to message #12339] Sun, 18 November 2018 20:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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The why Questions?

1. Why did he permit divorce?
He tolerated more in the OT. Matt. 19 No divorce in the NT. Gods requirement in the beginning was no divorce. Rom. 3/2-25, Gen. 1-4, Lev. 19/2

2. God commanded the Israelites to kill the Canaanites.. Liberals say that is a contradiction of the 6th command.
Answer - the 6th commandment has nothing to do with capital punishment
Gen. 9/6, Ex. 21/12-17, Here are taught principles for capital punishment
Answer - this is why God commanded the Canaanites to be killed - Lev. 18/22-24
Answer - Lev. 18/25-28 also why
Answer - Deut. 18/10-14 God used Israel to punish the Canaanites for their sin. Is. 10,
Because Israel wasn't completely obedient to this God had to ultimately destroy both Israel and Judah

3. Rahab the Harlot.
Did God permit lying in the OT. Some say OT ethics are lower than in the NT. Jesuits have the lie of reservation. Joshua 2/4-6 She lied to the men of Jericho. Heb. 11/31 She believed enough of the spies report to hide them. She believed and her faith produced works. She was a harlot in a sinful city and culture. She didn't measure up to NT standards but she was only getting some light. In that context the women is believing the spies report and hiding the spies in her own way.
Ex. 20/16 the ethical standard of the OT is the same as the new James 1, Lev. 19/11

4. God is a jealous God When the scriptures speak of God as jealous it means he as sovereign lord is solicitous of his own character name honour and will and not share his glory with false gods. Israel is his wife We shouldn't be jealous with anger but we should have a solicitous concern for our mates.

[Updated on: Sun, 18 November 2018 21:24]

Ethical principles of the Decalogue or Ten Commandments [message #12638 is a reply to message #12637] Sun, 18 November 2018 20:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Ethical principles of the Decalogue or Ten Commandments

It sets for the basic principles of ethics. Every principle in the 10 can be found over and over in the NT. The first 4 set forth our responsibility to God.

1.Ex. 20/3 The principle of monotheism and loyalty to God. Deut. 6/4 He wants not only first place but the only place. There are many Gods in church today. The NT principle is Luke 10/25-27 Summed up in two phrases. An OT figure setting forth NT truth. The more discerning Israelite could see that for themselves Mat. 10/37-39, Luke 14/25-27

2. Ex. 20 /4-6 We're not make images of God. It is an attempt to finite an infinite God Humans have the tendency to transfer our affections from our invisible God to an visible image John 4/24

3. Ex. 20/7 principle of reverence and respect for God.
To not profane Gods name by the way we live. It forbids perjury and false swearing Lev. 19/12. It was permitted in the OT to take the Lords name and swear by it to wean them away from swearing by other Gods. Not to take his name in vain.

4. Ex. 20/ 8-11 Principle of reverence for the Lords Day. Gods provision for mans need of rest. The NT principle is giving us a twofold blessing for a day of rest and worship. In the OT violating it meant death. We don't celebrate the sabbath because we are under grace. Immediately after Jesus resurrection they started meeting on the first day of the week in honour of it.

5. Ex. 20/12 Principle of respect for authority.
Not just parents but all authority. One reason for the Jews still alive as a race in spite of persecution is their respect for authority in home and elders.
Eph. 6/1-3 in mind as well as deed.

6. Ex. 20/13 Principle of Respect for Human Life
excepting capital punishment Gen. 9/6. This principle refers to unauthorized killing
For the xian it means killing of any kind. - capital punishment- self defence
- possessions - defending an unregenerate state or nation
The NT principle is - anger in the heart Matt. 5/21-22, 38-39 1 John 3/13-15

7. Ex. 20/14 The Principle of Sanctity of Marriage and Family relationships. Marriage and family is the God ordained method of expressing love for your mate. Anything outside that is adultery or fornication. Any sex outside marriage is forbidden.
Matt. 5/27-32, 19/9, Heb. 13/4, 1 Cor. 6/9-10, Rev. 2/18, Col. 3/5

8. Ex. 20/15 The principle is :
Honesty in the acquisition of our possessions. Recognition of the right of others to own property Forms of stealing: Violation of civil laws against shoplifting
gambling acquisition of the property others without paying or working for it
- moral stealing - control of the stock market- concealing defects in something we sell - employees loafing on the job- cheating on exams- stealing from the work or study of others- income tax - betting/lotteries (the idea of getting something for nothing)
Eph. 4/28, 1 Cor. 6/10, Rom. 12/17

9. Ex. 20/16 Principle of Truthfulness
a) respect for another name and character perjury / slander / gossip
criticism- which result in lives being ruined or besmirched
Prov. 6/16-19, Ex. 23/1, Prov. 26/20, James 3, Eph. 4/29,
b) respect for truth and honesty in all our relationships
Eph. 4/25, Col. 3/9, Rev. 21/8,27

10. Ex. 20/17 Principle forbidding an inordinate desire for the things of others.
John2/15,17, Matt. 6/31-33, col. 3/5, 1 Cor. 6/9-10

[Updated on: Sun, 18 November 2018 21:25]

Characteristics of Christian Principles [message #12639 is a reply to message #12638] Sun, 18 November 2018 20:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Distinctive Characteristics of Christian principles

a) Jesus was not a philosopher or social reformer he was a redeemer and Savior.

b) The ethics of Jesus do not constitute a system of ethical and moral rules, but set forth eternal principles which are intended to be guidelines for the motivation of conduct.

c) The ethics of the NT are a christian ethic. It is applicable to a believe under grace. You can't apply them to an unregenerate

d) Christian ethics is conduct. Its a way of life not a system of religion. James 1/22-26, Micah 6/6-8, Luke 10/25-31,

e) christian ethics are based on motives not just conduct. Many unregenerates can live close to the xian ethic but they can't do it from the heart. eg. Gandhi. What was his motive for being a social reformer? self-satisfaction, self-righteousness, and social reform. Prov. 21/4
- a sinner cannot perform any actions untainted by sin
- a sinner cannot perform any unselfish acts
- a sinner cannot perform any moral act that will justify him in Gods sight. Why? Anything he does apart from faith and Jesus is selfishness (satisfying his own righteousness or conscience)

Does having a right motive justify a wrong conduct?
eg. stealing food to feed your starving family or mercy killing ( loved one suffering from an incurable disease)
- its an escape from moral responsibility - robin hood acts are not allowed in the bible. Job never considered suicide - nothing ever justifies sin
- The moral and ethical process has 3 parts - motive - act- consequences
conduct is ethically right when it is the outcome of good motives carried out by right means which results in bionically acceptable consequences.

f) The xian ethic is an absolute ethic
Matt. 5/21-22, 33-34, 38,43,48 lust equals adultery, anger equals murder
What motives is the sermon based on? love,faith,holiness, Gods glory
God required the same perfection in the OT as in the NT. Gen. 17/1,Job. 1/8, Rom. 6/11
Gal. 5/22 Deliverance is not a shortcut to sanctification

g )Jesus ethics are positive in emphasis Matt. 7/12

h) The ethics of Jesus are positive in righteousness Matt. 6/33 We aren't justified by our righteousness but we are to do righteousness. Righteousness comes before answers.

[Updated on: Sun, 18 November 2018 21:25]

Sermon on the Mount #1 [message #12640 is a reply to message #12639] Sun, 18 November 2018 20:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Ethical Principles of the Sermon on the Mount

Because of its revolutionary purpose several views have arisen to explain it.

1. What is Jesus aim is giving the sermon? Is it to give high ideals to inspire men to do better or is it to give principles to obey?

2. To whom is the sermon addressed? Jews? Christians? The world?

3. When are the teachings to be applied?

a)Past - He offered the kingdom to the Jews but they rejected it so it is past. present? future?

b)present- all believers

c) future - The laws of the millennium when Israel is restored

Views of the Sermon:

1. The Humanistic View

The object is to improve society. It holds that Jesus was a great moral and ethical genius who taught the principles of brotherhood. some of his teachings are valid for today but most are not because they can't deal with the complexities of life today.
a) Truth and moral standards are not relative to time or place

b) The teachings of Christ are the only answer to the complexities of modern life

2. The Liberal View:

This is the view of the seminaries.
They believe in a salvation of works. They deny the blood atonement The high ideal of Christianity is to be a neighbour. We are to apply the teaching of the sermon to society. This would reform society and usher in the Kingdom of God on earth.

Reply: It overlooks mans need for regeneration

3. The Interim view

Schweitzer's view. The sermon was largely an interim ethic. Christ and the 12 taught an eschatological concept which is on end times. They taught the end was near so they didn't teach principles that were permanent to be used between his ascension and his almost immediate return. They say Jesus and the 12 were wrong. Its been 2000 yrs he isn't back yet. He says the sermon teaches a super human righteousness impossible for the present time. Its only for the interim

Reply: Jesus and the 12 do teach the soon return of Jesus but that is the basis for a high ethic. If it impossible on a permanent basis it is impossible on a temporary basis.

4. Dispensational View - 2 views

a) The sermon was only for the first advent. To the Jews. This is the view of Dwight Pentecost

b) The sermon is only for the millennium. Jesus gave it back then only for completeness sake. (LS Chafer) This code of ethics was only for the millennium. The sermon is impossible and unintended for our age. Some of the sermon applies now but very little.
Some say the sermon is system of works for the Jews in the millennium. We won't do them because we are under grace. Naturally none of the men who promote these ideas have the BHS.

Reply: Jews never were and never will be saved by works. The sermon is the highest spiritual truth in the bible. The NT contains all the teachings of the sermon. Jesus contrasts the law with his deeper teaching on the same thing.

5. The Biblical Present Age view:

The ethical requirements of the sermon are the highest expression of conduct and morality in the bible. The sermon has application from the time it was given until the second advent.
Matt. 7/21,24 These refer to the sermon Jesus just gave.
When are we to do them? Now!
The sermon is how a xian is to live under grace in a sinful world. In the millennium righteousness and peace will prevail. On the basis of that it obvious from the word the sermon is not for the M.
Matt. 5/6-8 Unrighteousness is present. Christ wouldn't preach on any of these things if it was for the M.
5/9 strife is present
5/10-12 persecution is present
5/16-17 corruption and moral darkness are present . It says we are the salt and preserver of the earth.
5/31 divorce and adultery are present
5/38-44 xians still suffer abuse from their enemies
6/1-18 religious hypocrisy is still present
6/13 Satan and temptation are still present
6/17-18 with 9/14-15 we are to fast after Jesus goes and Jesus is still absent
6/33 materialism still competes with God for our allegiance. We are urged to seek the kingdom. In the M. we will be in the kingdom.
6/10 we are to pray for his kingdom to come
7/21 he tells us to do all these things

The sermon has the same intention as the law. It is to be obeyed. Jesus makes no concession for weakness or hard hearts. The sermon is more absolute than the law. But we have the HS and the blood which makes it possible. The immense scope of the sermon and its necessity for every age is seen in that it answers so many questions and needs for today

[Updated on: Sun, 18 November 2018 21:26]

Sermon on the Mount #2 [message #12641 is a reply to message #12640] Sun, 18 November 2018 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Question # 1
In contrast to the law the sermon sets forth certain principles. What is the difference between a principle and a rule?
Answer: Matt. 5/21-22 t
the law: thou shalt not kill
principle: whoever is angry is in danger of judgment

Q. # 2 What does Christ mean when he says to forsake all and follow him?
A. Matt. 6/19-34 Take no thought for the things of the world

Q. # 3 To what motive does Christ appeal when he demands righteous living. What does he warn as a consequence to disobedience
A. Matt. 5/21-22 Judgment and fell fire. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

Q. # 4 does it matter how we live? Can a xian do as he pleases within certain limits. booze, gamble dance, xrated movies?
A. Matt. 5/13-16 We are to be lights to the world, separated, salt of the earth.

Q. # 5 What is Christs attitude toward anti-nomianism?
A. Matt5/19-20 The righteousness of the law is to be fulfilled by us through our faith in Christ.

Q. # 6 Can an unregenerate heart perform an act that is completely free fromm sin and acceptable to God?
A. Matt. 7/18 No! No work of a sinner is acceptable with God. Prov. 2/14 Everything a sinner does is sin. Even plowing his field.

Q. #7 What is the danger of confessing Christ (the basis for entering the kingdom) and not being obedient?
A. 7/21-22 If you don't do Gods will you won't enter the kingdom

Q. # 8 Can a true xian justify violence and killing in light of the sermon?
A. 5/38-44 but I say unto you not to resist evil

Q. # 9 does Jesus say your answer to question 8 prove whose child you are?
A. Yes 5/45 says if do what vs 44 says it proves you are a child of God

Q. # 10 Who alone are the blessed in Gods sight?
A. 5/3 The poor in spirit/ those who mourn, the meek, those that hunger and thirst for righteousness, the merciful, the pure in heart, peacemakers, the persecuted for righteousness sake

Q. # 11 What should be the xian attitude toward divorce and taking the oath.?
A. 5/31-37 God allows divorce only for fornication and not to take the oath at all.

Q. # 12 What are the two ways of life and can they be mixed?
A. 6/24 Godly life or worldly life. A xian cannot serve both

Q. # 13 How many will take heed to the Lords teaching in the sermon?
A. 7/13-14 Narrow is the way and few that find it.

Q. # 14 Is a xian supposed to see how much he can do or how close he can come to sin without actually sinning?
A. 6/33 Seek righteousness. A true xian stays as far from sin as he can.

Q. # 15 What is the one basic principle that Christ gives that governs all our conduct?
A. 7/12 Therefore all things whatsoever you would that men should do to you do ye even to them.

Q. # 16 What does Christ call a man that takes heed to the teaching?
A. 7/24 The one who does a wise man; the one who doesn't a foolish man

Q. #17 Does Jesus deal with specific sins in the sermon? Does he apply principles to specific situations
A. divorce 5/31-32, oath 5/33-37, prayer 6/9, fasting 6/16, alms 6/1f murder and violence 5/21f

Q.# 18 Do you think the sermon is too radical for today?
A. What was the reaction of the people in Christs day?
7/28-29 They were astonished just like the people today. People do not change

[Updated on: Sun, 18 November 2018 21:26]

Sermon on the Mount #3 [message #12642 is a reply to message #12641] Sun, 18 November 2018 20:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Sermon on the Mount Theme:

How disciples should live a xian life in a sinful world

The Character of a discipl

A) Inward man 5/3-6
Vs.3 blessed are the poor in spirit - recognizing our spiritual poverty and need of salvation - after salvation recognizing our need of the BHS - recognizing we are what we are by the grace of God
Reward: the kingdom of heaven
Vs.4 blessed are they that mourn
- before salvation mourning over your spiritual condition
- after salvation mourning for the power or BHS
- mourning over the spiritual condition of the world and the church
- because we have to live in such sinful surroundings
Reward: we shall be comforted

Vs.5 Blessed are the meek
Humble lowliness of mind teachable. Meek is not weak. There is a difference. Moses was meek but he was jealous for God and his word.
Reward: They shall inherit the earth

Vs.6 Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness
Those who cannot get enough of the word and teaching. Also those faithful in fasting and prayer
Reward: They shall be filled with righteousness

B) How xians react to others
Vs.7 blessed are the Merciful
Not just being fair but going the second mile 5/40-41
Reward: we shall obtain mercy

Vs.8 Blessed are the pure in heart
Good thoughts acts desires attitudes and motives
Reward: we shall seed god now and later

Vs.9 blessed are the peacemakers.
A person of peace. Never causes strife.
The passive side: non-resistance
Active side: seek peace in all things
Reward: We are called the children of God. Why? Because we are like his son Jesus.

Vs.10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness sake.
Hated, laughed at etc. for your stand on the word. It is a consequence of living the sermon.
Reward: The kingdom of heaven. Need to make sure it is for righteousness sake and not chastisement.

Vs.11-12 Blessed are you when men shall revile you lie about you and persecute you for Jesus sake. Phil.1/29 for trusting and loving Jesus. Why are we blessed when persecuted? It is the evidence we are living the word and pleasing God.
Reward: Great is your reward in Heaven
C ) The twofold influence of disciples on a sinful world 5/13-16

Salt: There are 3 qualities to salt
a) it purifies and is antiseptic. A xian is antiseptic in that his purity of conduct and motives acts as a purifying influence on a sinful world. Salt that only looks like salt is worthless. Jesus speaking here about people not salt. Luke 14/34
b) It preserves. a xian helps preserve a society that is heading for certain destruction.
c) Salt seasons. The BHS gives the season or spice of the xian life. like peace joy security etc.

Light: There are 3 characteristics to light Phil. 2/14-15
a) Position. Light should be seen. People should be able to tell you are a xian. Our light should reveal the worlds sin.
b) Nature. Light vanishes darkness
c) Purpose. It glorifies God. The world is more aware of what we do than what we say.

[Updated on: Sun, 18 November 2018 21:27]

Sermon on the Mount #4 [message #12643 is a reply to message #12642] Sun, 18 November 2018 21:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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D) The Principle of the conduct of Xians 5/12 - 7/21

The revelation of the law and the prophets in the sermon.
What is the Law? It is Gods eternal standard for righteousness. Rom. 8/4, 3/31, 7/12
We keep the law by our faith in Christ. Everything in the law is in the NT. Eph. 6 for eg.
If we break the commandments and you will be least in the kingdom. The scribes and pharisees made void the law and taught others to do the same.

The inner spiritual principles of righteousness that were implicit in the law. Vs 21-48


a) Christ made explicit what was implicit in the law.
b) The sermon is not a law. The xian is not called to live the sermon as if it were a law. The sermon is not a higher law but rather eternal principles of conduct.

The difference between law and principles

Vs 21-26
Law: do not kill
Principle: if you are angry with your bro it is as if you killed him.
Calling someone a fool - in the OT it was calling a person wicked or apostate
NT all men are made in the image of God ans one should never call anyone a bad name
Making it right with someone who has something against you. Do all you can to settle out of court. Avoid anger. Take the initiative to correct a problem with someone even if you are in the right.

Vs. 27-30 Law: Not committing adultery
Principle: Do not even lust in your heart as in Gods eyes you will have committed the act. Who is more guilty? The one who dresses sleazy or the one who looks? both are equally guilty. Proper dress does not call the wrong kind of attention.
Vs 29-30 do we take this literally? Yes! If that is the only alternative to keep from sinning. but for the spirit filled xian there is a better way. eg Job 31/1 I made a covenant with my eyes why then should I think upon a maid. Your body expresses the heart

VS 27-32
Law: You can divorce or write a writ of divorce.
Principle: divorce is only allowed for fornication.
Fornication includes adultery but also means sexual uncleanness. Divorce doesn't make adultery but a divorced person who remarries commits adultery. (except for fornication)
Solutions: If you are married then stay that way. If you are divorced except for fornication then stay single or claim the reconciliation of your marriage. 1 Cor. 7

Vs 5/33- 37
Law: Swear only by the Lord
Principle: Swear not at all James 5/2

VS. 5/38-42
Law: An eye for an eye
Principle: do not fight for anything
We must keep in mind the sermon is for spirit filled xians not the world. Xians do not take people to court. Must be willing to go the extra mile. In this area a person must be very discerning. Christ does not say here to always give what they ask. god does not give what we ask for is we ask amiss James 4/3 eg don't give people money to get drunk. But : when you do give do with no strings attached. give freely and do not discriminate

Principles of conduct and worship in daily practice
Matt. 6/1-18

The principle is to avoid practising your piety before men to be seen and heard. One has to give fast and pray properly to get a reward.

a) Giving: vs 2-5 Don't tell anyone or even think about it yourself.

b) Praying vs 6-15
Avoid prayer that is just to be heard and admired. Jesus prayed public prayer(john17) the disciples (acts 4) Avoid prayers that are semons designed to get back at people or correct others mistakes. Avoid vain repetition. Why? God already knows what you are going to pray. Another reason is that is the way the heathen pray.

c) Fasting. vs 16-18 If giving and praying is for today then so is fasting. Do it secretly. It is a matter of the heart to fast. Fast when you want to avoiding legalism. 1 hour 1 day 1 meal whatever you want. Turn your back on everything to seek him for something. It is turning your attention to him and off other things. sometimes it is the only way to get an answer. Pray and use your faith and you still don't know the answer then fast. When you're wondering about a mans ministry then fast. If nothing else tells us. A fruit juice fast is a restricted diet. It is good but a fast is nothing but water.

[Updated on: Sun, 18 November 2018 21:27]

Sermon on the Mount #5 [message #12644 is a reply to message #12643] Sun, 18 November 2018 21:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Principles governing material possessions criticism worry and anxiety Matt. 6/19-7/5

Covetousness vs 19-21 No affection for material goods. There is nothing wrong with owning things. It is the selfish accumulation of riches for riches sake. Covetousness is idolatry because it is what we worship.

How do we avoid covetousness?
a) Look upon all your material goods as means to an end and not an end in itself.

b) Let them hold no affection in our hearts

c) A total committal of our possessions to the Lord as we are just stewards.

Anxiety vs 25-34
Jesus forbids sinful anxiety. Concern for material needs in sin. Taking thought is the same as being anxious. Why take no thought?

a) It is unnecessary as he feeds the birds he will feed us.

b) It is unavailing. He says it is easier to grow 18in than to feed your self.

c) It is unfaithful. Just consider the lilies.

The seriousness of Anxiety is 4 fold. It indicates:

a) A lack of faith about basic matters.

b) It calls into question Gods sovereignty. You don't believe he is big enough to do what he says he will. The God we serve is the one we trust day to day. Not the one we sing to.

c) It indicates we are covetous. This is why the poor can also be covetous.

d) It destroys our witness. It makes like the world.

Criticism 7/1-5 What does it not mean:

a) That you shouldn't correct errors that mar the purity of the faith. 11 Tim. 41-2 Jude 3

b) It doesn't mean we shouldn't use discernment.

c) don't judge by appearance
Luke 18/9-14
Don't be self-righteous in our judgment. When we deal with the sins of others we should do it with love.
7/12 The golden principle. The whole sermon on the mount revolves around this.

[Updated on: Sun, 18 November 2018 21:28]

The Practise of Christian Ethics [message #12645 is a reply to message #12644] Thu, 29 November 2018 01:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Practise of Xian ethics

Two aspects of Christianity.
1/ faith
2/ obedience.
The first half of this course deals only with hearing. The second half deals with how to the principles in practise.

Responsibility to oneself.

1. Self Preservation. Its not self defence to care for your mind body and health. It is a God given command to to preserve and take care of ourself. Why?

a) in order to be useful to God and our neighbour. To have sufficient strength to live.

b) The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.
- We should regulate its passions and appetites 1 Cor. 9/24
- We should put off unclean habits. 1 Cor. 6/15
- We should be pure in mind and body
- We shouldn't wilfully neglect the rules of good health sufficient rest food cleanliness and a balance of exercise.

c) Mans life is not his own to do with as he pleases. It is a sacred trust from God. We are going to give an account for it. 11 Cor. 5/10. No man lives to himself. His life and death affect others. Rom. 14/7

2/ Development of xian character and Virtues

a) Honesty and truthfulness. Eph. 4/25 Is a lie ever justified?

Situation ethics as in conduct should be determined by the present situation. The most good for the most people. A lie is justified under some circumstances. "Catholic priests" have a mental reservation. A justifiable lie. If it is good for the church or saves a life then it is justified. Medical lies, social lies, patriotic lies.

What do the scriptures teach about liars? Rev. 21/7-8
On the basis of this a xian can never lie. Matt26/57-65 Jesus didn't lie to save his own life. Peter lied 3 times. A lie is an escape from responsibility to God. As a xian we have a responsibility to be truthful. Thats why an oath is forbidden.

It is a love of self, family, position, pride, more than God. A lie is a lack of faith in God with Rom. 8/28. We owe it to ourself to be truthful and honest. We need to face ourselves and reality otherwise we won't mature as we should.
1 Cor. 11/27-32 chastening comes. Its pride and stubbornness that we won't admit we're wrong. God will only use us to the extent that we are willing to face ourselves.

b) Genuine humility as opposed to fake. Some people are proud they're humble. 1 Peter 2/19-23, James 4/6

c) Holiness: inward and outward purity in thoughts and actions. 1 Peter 1/15-16. How important is holiness to the Lord? Heb. 12/14

d) The fruits of the Spirit. Gal. 5/22-23

e) 11 Peter 1/5-11 some more virtues

f) Love 1 Cor. 13
Re: The Practise of Christian Ethics #2 [message #12646 is a reply to message #12645] Thu, 29 November 2018 01:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Responsibilities to Others

1/ Responsibility to God
a) To love trust and obey him Luke 10/17, Mark 1/22, Prov. 3/5-6
b) To worship and reverence him Matt4/8-10, Matt6/9
c) To communicate his grace and truth to the world Matt28/18-20, Mark 16/15-20
d) to live in such a manner that the world can see we are God's children Matt. 5/16,48

2/ Responsibility to Gods creation.
a) To recognize his power and glory in nature Ps. 19/1 Rom. 1
b) To conserve and preserve its natural resources.
c) To display his kindness toward the animal kingdom. Senseless slaughter, the use of traps instead of snares as in the OT. Prov. 12/10 is not just for pets.

3/ Responsibilities to our fellow man
a) Love The xian ethic is grounded in love. Xian ethics are unique because we are to love our enemies too. Matt. 5/43-48
b) Mercy Matt. 5/38-42 This is not speaking of justice. Justice would have given him time. Mercy forgave it.
c) Truthfulness Eph. 4/25 We owe others the truth and honest dealings

d) Good neighbourliness
We owe loving service to our neighbours. Luke10/27-37 True christianity is loving service in time of need. As an individual xian nothing that concerns the needs of a fellow human can be a matter of indifference. The church can't get involved in social action but individual xians are to show compassion. The church is not an organization it is an organism. so it can't form social groups for action because the church is the people. A situation a xian is in if a fellow human has a need we are to meet it. The parable of the good Samaritan. My neighbour is anyone in need.

God expect us to use common sense and wisdom in meeting the needs of others. An eg would be wilful neglect of ones own responsibilities or laziness. In a case like that the church should lovingly admonish them. When the church rushes in to meet a need it robs the individual of the privilege of believing God for themselves.
Christian Responsibility in Race Relationships [message #12650 is a reply to message #12646] Sun, 02 December 2018 04:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Christian Responsibility in Race Relationships

What is the Christians attitude to be?

The American creed stands for liberty equality and justice for all but it often doesn't work out that way. American churches practised segregation until the supreme court made them stop.

The problem of Prejudice.
40% of Americans express open prejudice. There are 3 views of why prejudice occurs.
a) it is instinctive and inborn
b) it is acquired and learned
c) the scriptural view. . . it is partly both. Man is a sinner and knows how to hate but racial prejudice is also learned. We are taught to dislike and hate those who our parents or society dislike and hate.

How is it acquired?

a) georacial. eg
New York- Puerto Ricans
South - blacks
San Francisco - Chinese

b) Ignorance There are false beliefs about minority groups. Racial superiority is unscientific and unscriptural. All mankind has a common ancestry -Adam/Noah
There are no pure blood races. Scientists have dis proven the fallacies of biological intellectual or cultural inferiority of any one race. It is always due to a lack of opportunity and background. Mixing races doesn't produce inferior offspring. Inbreeding does.
all the scriptural arguments that racists use for segregation were Jew and Gentile arguments. they were religious not racial. In the OT it was Jew and Gentile. In the NT is believer or unbeliever 11 Cor. 6

c) Sterotyping. stories jokes and attitudes about others

d) Fear
Economic fear. The black will work for less because they have learned to live on less.
Pure blood blacks are hard to find. Whites feared intermarriage not adultery. 20% of white Americans have negro blood. 75% of black Americans have white blood.

e) The sinful desire for supremacy. Young over old, rich over poor, strong over weak, white over coloured.

Alleged Biblical proof texts to justify racism

a) The mark of Cain. Gen. 4/11-26 They say the mark was black skin.
vs. 15 The mark was for protection. It was spiritual. It doesn't prove anything except he was marked and there is no way to tell what it was.

b) The mark of Ham. Gen. 918-29 This is supposed to be the beginning of the servant class. He moved to Africa and founded the black tribes. Blacks are then servants. The actual curse was on Canaan who was the father of the whites. The Canaanites became idolatrous and were eventually judged by God and destroyed.

c) The confusion of tongues at Babel. Gen. 11/1-9 this is supposed to be Gods frustration at mans attempt at integration. Vs 4 They were disobedient at wanting to stay in one place. God had told them to fill up the earth. They were all the same race. The punishment was on the speech. The punishment was binding on all of them. It wasn't segregation. It was desperation to obey Gods command.

Jesus attitude toward Segregation

Mark 7 The Syrophoenician women
Luke 10 the parable of the good Samaritan
Matt. 28 Mark 16 The great commission is to all the world. In his parables he speaks of God ultimately blessing the whole world. He wasn't prejudiced as a Jew. He quotes Elijah as going to Naaman the leper and the widow in Sidon who were both gentiles. The Samaritan women at the well. He violated Jewish custom by talking to her. In all his ministry he never showed any prejudice.
In the OT segregation was enforced for spiritual reasons. Gal. 3/28 There was no segregation at the cross.

The Apostles attitude.
Peter was rebuked by Paul for segregation Gal. 2/9-14

Gods attitude. Gal. 3/28, Acts 17/26, Acts 10/9-16
Num. 12/1 Moses married a black women. Miriam and Arron were upset and said he was backslidden or something and not fit for leadership.

Conclusion. Separation in the bible was always for spiritual reasons.
Biblical roles of Husband and Wife [message #13109 is a reply to message #12650] Mon, 27 January 2020 17:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Biblical roles of Husband and Wife

Eph. 5/21-33
Acts 3/21 Before Jesus returns all things will be restored. Including relationships.
God-man, man-man, man-wife
Headship is a scriptural term God/Jesus, Jesus/church, Man/wife
Gen. 2 he fall there existed a gracious loving submission on the part of the women

Why is the Man head?

1. The man was created first.
2. The women was created out of the man
3. God fulfilled his divine purpose in creating things the way he did. He designed man (personality, attitude etc) for leadership. The women was created as a helpmate and a companion. In the garden she didn't view submission as inferior. Her being was created and geared toward being a helpmate and a companion.
1 Cor. 11/8-11

The women's whole personality is geared toward the husband and children. She reacts emotionally . It is good in the context in which God created her. God in divine wisdom purposely didn't make another manout of the dust. Then he would have two leaders. So he created her out of him.

God could have created the relationship . . .

1. With the man strong dominating and ruling the weak
2. As a farmer/cow relationship- where one was just a servant and never have an opinion.
3. A loving submission of one to the other.

A women in her proper role is not inferior. By nature a man is a leader and awomen subordinate.

1. Pre-fall the women gave loving submission to her husband. One in flesh and spirit.

2. Post-fall The curse came. The relationship of being one in spirit was broken. Adam blamed Eve. Husband /wife are still one in flesh. What God is restoring today is one in spirit.
a. The curse on women. - Pain in childbirth ruled by her husband ( a women had very rights in the OT.
b. The curse on man thorns and thistles he was cursed because he listened to his wife instead of God

3. Under Grace Gal. 3/27-28 This speaks of a believers relationship to Jesus. The ground is level at the foot of the cross. God is no respecter of persons. 1 Peter3/7, Titus 2/3-5, Col. 3/18, 1 Tim.3/1-4 1 Cor. 11/2-3 Even Christ is subject to the Father. The ideal was in the garden. That is what we should strive for.
Re: Biblical roles of Husband and Wife [message #13110 is a reply to message #13109] Mon, 27 January 2020 17:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Preparation for Marriage

(note from Mark) - some of the material here is very dated. In that the whole world has changed dramatically since this material was brought in the charismatic school. But its not my teaching and its in the course so I'm just going to put in it the way he presented it.

There are two practices unique in the world to America.
1/ dating 2/ going steady

1/ Dating. Why do parents encourage this? Because it confirms their children are not abnormal and they are popular and will be able to marry.

Side effects to dating.
1. It imposes a social tyranny. It brings pressure to go steady
2. It imposes a mutual exploitation. Males sexually and females financially.
3. It inspires change and variety. Then inspires variety in marriage
4. dating by people who aren't wage earners gives them a distorted attitude toward money. eg. Parents supple
5. dating has permitted a high increase in illegitimate pregnancy and venereal disease.
6. Dating complicates the relationship between parents and children. Parents condone dating and then worry about it. Children are confused between their peer group pressure and parents

Going Steady (I think the modern term here is being exclusive Mark)

You date only one person. Its almost the same as marriage. Its a mark of personal achievement and proves your normal. It makes it easier to excuse the sex that goes on.

There is a great increase today in

1. pregnancy
2. venereal disease
3. divorce by the time they are married there is nothing new

The whole thing is an American invention under the influence of Hollywood. Most people don't know there was a time when boys played with boys. It used to be most fellowship sexes was in large groups. When you visited a girl it was by the permission of the parents in the home. There was a time when going steady was unheard of. You used to ask the girls father for permission to get married. In the OT non-virgins were stoned. Fornicator aren't allowed in the kingdom.
Re: Biblical roles of Husband and Wife [message #13112 is a reply to message #13110] Thu, 30 January 2020 16:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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A Christian Attitude toward Courtship and Marriage

You can't establish rules only principles of conduct
1. principle be not conformed to this world
2. principle parental responsibility. In both NT & OT parents are admonished to bring up children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Christian parents should never hesitate to ask questions where are you going? Who with? How long? It is worse to be too permissive than too strict.

Should teenagers date? Alternatives to Dating.

1. Teenagers youth activities like in other countries. Hiking, biking, picnics, campfires, bowling, Up to 18 yrs outings should be supervised. It is good for teenager groups to have an adult giving interested oversight. Pairing off shouldn't be allowed. Parents should teach their children the right way to act. Girls should dress modestly. Boys should honor women. Titus 2/1-8 1 Tim.3/4,11-12 11 Tim.2/22
2. mature Youth - 18-19 yrs eg. Two cuples meeting for fun in homes with proper supervision. They are too young to get married at this age. You become an adult at 20.
3. Single Adults there is nothing wrong with 2 young adults enjoying each others company socially. Adults don't need supervision but should act with propriety and common sense.

Going steady in teenage yrs inhibits personality development. You don't develope friendships and relationships with others.

Common Excuses for Dating and Going Steady

1. Everyone is doing it. They will think I am strange. The answer is Christians don't do what everyone else is doing,.
2. I'm not going to marry them so why shouldn't I enjoy them now. The answer is a relationship always begins on the first date.
3. I can witness to them. (a non christian) The answer is a non christian will always pull you down to their level. eg. Samson/Deliah
4. How else will I find the right husband/wife. This indicates a lack of faith and knowledge in Gods word.

The Christian should prayerfully seek the divine providential direction of God in selecting a partner for life. Most people base their decision on feeling and emotion. God should be consulted when choosing a companion for life.

Engagement and Marriage should be between mature adults. God never intended teenagers to take on the responsibility of dating and marriage. An adolescent is not mature.

Four Kinds of Maturity

1. Physical Males need to be ready for work and responsibility. Women need to be ready to bear children.

2. Emotional -
- Self-controlled Prov. 16/22
- One who has made the transition from I to thou.
- One who is able to work with others ie. A married partner
- The man has to be old enough to leave home and cleave to a wife
- The women has to be able to give living submission
- One who can love another for their sake

3. Spiritually Mature
The husband should be spiritually mature enough to take spiritual leadership and headship in the home. Women should be spiritually mature enough to give submission and bring up children.

4. Intellectually Mature
The husband should be old enough and experienced enough to handle finances and direct the family affairs. The women should be old enough to know how to cook sew etc.

Why do Teenage marriages fail?
1. Because it hinders normal development- mentally & spiritually
2. they have to give up adolescence and take on maturity.
3.The man has to go to work. Generally no skills in labor- money problems result
4. Sexual bliss soon evaporates and babies come along.
5. The husband ends going back to the dating game.

Notes on Marriage
1. Marriage should be between Christians
2. Christians should not marry church members
3. Charismatics ought to marry charismatics
4. to those still wedded to their denominations. They should marry in their denominations.

5. There should be christian love between partners or else the Lord for it.
6. What if a christian gets pregnant before marriage? They should marry.

7. What if premarital sex doesn't result in pregnancy? Deut. 22/28-29 If they are that intimate they should get married. If a man really loves his wife to be then he will not request her to debase herself to have sex when God has ordained it for marriage.

8. The marriage has to be based on love and christian principles.

9. A women should show her submissive attitude and willingness to be submissive in marriage (in a biblical way). How does a man know if the willingness is there? 1. By her attitude in the home to her parents looking at who has the leadership in courtship

10. A man and women should love each other. This is the only basis for biblical marriage. Titus 2, Eph. 5 Gen. 24/63-67 Ruth and Boaz, Elkanah and Hannah Love is an inner emotion of the spirit.

11. Marriage should be between couples who know each other reasonably well

12. The principle of parental respect should be observed. It's our choice who we marry but it should be with parental consent. What if parents aren't saved? Should I respect their opinions? No! We have the final choice.

13. The church should concur on the marriage and help discern Gods will in the matter
Marriage Divorce and Remarriage [message #13124 is a reply to message #13112] Thu, 06 February 2020 23:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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Marriage Divorce and Remarriage

Reasons for Study

1. Widespread divorce
2. scriptural sanctions against divorce
3. the complexities of the problem


1. Legal definition the process by which the legal relationship of husband and wife is constituted by mutual contract
2. biblical definition the process by which man and women by mutual consent unite for the purpose of permanently living together , in love in order to establish and maintain a home and family.

Question What is the responsibility of the church in performing the marriage ceremony?

It is the state not the church (bible) that requires a licence ceremony and a state approved individual officiating. The state in requiring these things is not wrong because it holds sin in check.
Ruth 4. No ceremony they just posted a notice they were going to be married.
Marriage is a commitment to the biblical definition not a ceremony although there is nothing wrong with it. There are no biblical grounds for an elaborate church wedding. John 2 a wedding feast but not in the church. There is not a wedding in the bible in church or synagogue.
There shouldn't be occult forms of superstition in the ceremony. For the first 300 yrs the church did ot regard the marriage as the responsibility of the church. It was the states responsibility. In the 13th century the catholic church made it cannon law that a priest had to officiate then the protestants picked it up.

Are non-christians really married in Gods sight?

See the biblical definition of marriage. Luke 16/18 he was talking ot his disciples as well as the pharisees and unbelievers. Among other things he said anyone who divorces & remarries commits adultery. So both Christians and unbelievers are married in Gods sight.
Matt. 19/1-9 speaking to all as he says anyone
Gen. 4/17 Cain had a wife
Matt. 27/7-19 Pilate had a wife

Divorce causes a breakdown in the family structure. It causes a breakdown in morals and society so God is concerned that people don't believe in divorce. For a man to be in 5f ministry he must not be remarried as he then has more than one wife. One wife not one at a time. Titus 1/6

Basic causes for divorce

1. The dating game and going steady learning to play the field
2. The 20th century freedom women have political and economic
3 The use of contraceptives no children so nothing to stop you from separating
4. Many marriages are based on such things as physical attraction pregnancy custom
5. Immaturity teenage marriage
6. The ease of getting a divorce
7. The long run trend in America of the breakup of the family and home

8. Tensions arising through personality interaction
a. Finances not how much but who controls and spends it. The wife works because they won't live within their income. Can't take care of the home properly.
Who should manage the finances? The head of the house with man making major decisions with his wife.
b. The almost universal attempt to remould ones partner after marriage. Christians who marry unbelievers to convert them after marriage
c. Religious nonaffinity eg protestant /catholic.

9. sexual non-compatibility
10. in-law interference

- treat your inlaws as persons and not enemies to be overcome or endured. Many people get married expecting trouble
- If problems arise react in love as christian would
- Always be willing to momentarily place yourself in the other persons shoes. We will find that parents love their children. We may find it is parental concern not meddling
- No house is big enough for parents and children. Gen 2 teaches cleave and leave.

- Don't become a stereotypical in law
- Recognize a big enough mature enough & grownup enough to resolve his own marriage. Keep your nose out of it.
- In serious disputes never take sides. It will divide the marriage just pray with or for them.

How to reduce tension

1. At the beginning understand the biblical roles
2. Surrender non-essential peculiarities that cause tension
3. reserve a sense of humour which often breaks the tension
4.In serious matters there are 6 priciples
- don't argue
- don't withdraw with hurt feeling
- don't retaliate
- engage in calm discussion
- pray together
- determine to solve the problem yourself without outside help

[Updated on: Sat, 15 February 2020 20:56]

Biblical View of Divorce [message #13125 is a reply to message #13124] Thu, 06 February 2020 23:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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Biblical View of Divorce

OT View
Ex. 20/14, Deut. 22/22, Lev. 21/19-20,
the penalty in the OT for adultery was death. Lev. 19/29, Lev. 18/22-23
Gen.2/24 with Matt. 19/3-9 This is Gods intended attitude in marriage
Mal. 2/13-16 They were divorcing their wives and marrying young ones.

2. Deut.24/1-4 this is used by some Christians as the basis for not claiming reconciliation instead 1 Cor. 7/10-11
Ezra 3/1-10 17-19 they were told to put away their gentile wives
Deut 24/1 is OT law we are not under. It also permitted divorce which is prohibited in the NT. Almost every aspect of OT law was to make the Jews a separate and holy clean people. The object in Deut.24/14 was moral purity. Moses permitted divorce but the NT doesn't. God permitted what he didn't approve. In Matt 19 Jesus states you become one flesh with your mate. Remarriage is adultery because the one flesh relationship prevails.

NT attitude toward divorce

Matt. 5/32,Matt.19/1-9, 1Cor. 7/1-40, Luke 16/8, Rom. 7/1-3, Mark 10/11-12

Fornication gr. - pornia (Heb. Sama means the same thing)
1. illicit sexual relations between unmarried persons
2. prostitution
3. general sexual impurity for married & unmarried

Adultery Ge, norcia - illicit sexual relations between married persons

Jesus was the only man prophet or otherwise who gave permission and a reason for divorce. Moses gave it as a concession because they had such hard hearts.
Matt. 15/19, Gal.5/19
Acts 15/19-20,29 was a letter written to all gentiles married and unmarried so a fornicator can be married or unmarried.

The general use of the term fornication as it was addressed to he whole church
1 Cor. 6/13-18, 10/8 Col. 3.5, 1 Thess4/3, 11 Cor. 12/21, Gal. 5/19,
1 Cor. 7/2 addressed to the unmarried
1 cor. 5/1 addressed to the married

Conclusion : fornication can be by both married and unmarrid

OT spiritual fornication

2 Chronicles 21/11 Ezek. 16/28-29,23/5
Israel is Gods wife
Thou shalt not commit adultery he is talking to all Israel not just the married
1Cor.5/1 and the 7th commandment are exceptions but generally adultery is between married people and fornication is sexual impurity between man and women

Conclusion : Matt 5/32

[Updated on: Sat, 15 February 2020 20:56]

Re: Biblical View of Divorce [message #13148 is a reply to message #13125] Sat, 15 February 2020 20:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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Views of divorce and Remarriage

1. Permitted only on grounds of fornication
2. Permitted by Jesus for fornication but the question of remarriage is left open
3. No grounds given by Jesus for divorce
4. No rules taught by Jesus concerning divorce and remarriage. He just states the ideal of Gen. 2. Those who hold this view then say as sinful flesh we can't always hold to this ideal

5. Roman Catholic view. Adultery gives the innocent party the right to seperate but because of Gen 2 no divorce or remarriage is permitted. Fornication matt. 5,19 means adultery.
In RC doctrine an annulment can be granted for several reasons
- Pauline privilege 1 Cor. 7/15 no salvation outside the RC church
- an annulment can be granted if the marriage is performed by civil courts. The law in the US won't allow them to do this.
- If the marriage is not consummated
- Marriage to a habitual criminal
- One partner converting to Protestantism
- One parent educating their children as protestants
- No civil divorce is recognized by the RC church

6. Betrothal view. There are no grounds for divorce after marriage. Jesus in Matt.5,19 has reference to betrothed couples and not married. They base this on Matt 1/18-20 Since they were betrothed not married they were able to divorce.
In the near east & Israel when a couple engaged to be married they were legally bound together as if actually married. They are taking a near eastern custom and superimposing on the text what they want to believe


Does an annulment constitute divorce? What is a legal annulment?
It is a decision by the court that a marriage was invalid from the start for legal or moral reasons. In effect the court rules the marriage never took place.

Legal grounds for Annulment

1. child seduction under legal age for marriage
2. duress forcing marriage by physical threat or blackmail
3. Fraud eg bigamy
4. concealing by fraud eg. Pregnancy by another man,drug addiction,venereal disease

The question to ask about annulment is: has a scriptural marriage taken place? In cases like those above a scriptural marriage hasn't taken place. An eg of that would be a man concealing a past marriage marries a Xian women. So adultery is being committed even though one party is innocent. An annulment can be granted as scriptural grounds are violated.

Ministers views of Remarriage.

Some ministers will perform a remarriage if:

1. The grounds for divorce was fornication and it is the innocent party seeking to remarry
2. If it between Christians
3. Some will marry non-Christians
4. Some will marry any couple in a legal position to remarry
5. some will not remarry any divorced person for any reason. The law separated them let the law remarry them. A ministers calling isn't to marry but to teach.
6. Some will remarry if one lost a partner to death provided both are christian and not divorced.

Matt. 5/32 No divorce except for fornication. Marrying a divorcee is adultery.
Matt. 19/1-9 No divorce except for fornication. Remarriage is adultery
Mark 10/11-12 Remarriage is adultery
Luke 16/18 Divorce and remarriage is adultery. Even a single person marrying a divorcee.
Rom. 7/1-3 As long as both parties are alive the one flesh relationship applies.
1 Cor. 7/ the wife is not to leave her husband. The husband is not send away his wife. If they are unequally yoked then don't leave. If an unbeliever leaves let them go.

The Nature of the Economic Order [message #13149 is a reply to message #13148] Sat, 15 February 2020 22:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Definition: It is the process by which those things needed to support life and well being are produced distributed and consumed.
The major factors involved would be tools, equipment,property,land,labor,capital,natural resources,and finances.

What is the function or purpose of the economic order.
1. To provide the individual and community with goods and resources necessary to sustain life and well being including rest and recreation.
2. For the christian it is also to provide a sphere of service to God and his fellow man. The Bible shows the christian has the responsibility to use the worlds systems for spiritual ends Titus2/12, 1Cor.7/20-22

Modern Economic Ideologies and Philosophies

1. Capitalism Private ownership of property. All systems have some private ownership. There is no such thing as pure capitalism ie: don't pay your taxes you lose your house. Ownership is conditional on obeying the rules
2. Regulated capitalism Something between capitalism ans socialism. This involves increasing the gov't control of private property. This is not bad in some ways as we need rules to regulate or the result is chaos. eg. Canada/US
3. Socialism Allows private ownership with major industry and public institutions run by the gov't. eg England
4. Fascism Private ownership is permitted with strict gov't controls. Ridgid control of industry all public property in the interest of a small group. Eg Spain
5. Communism Maximum state control with little or no private ownership. The philosophy is that wealth and property belong to the society and the state exists for the welfare of the people.

Russia is not communistic. It is Russianism. There could never exist either pure communism or pure Capitalism. Russianism is part communism fascism socialism and capitalism. To understand it you have to know Karl Marx. His economic philosophy is based on a philosophic idea of history and how all life moves. He called it a "Dialetical pattern of Thesis". Thesis and antithesis will become synthesis.

- thesis primitive or pure communism when man first evolved
- antithesis the opposite. In this case capitalism
- synthesis eventually it will all come out Neo-communism or Russianism

These three terms can apply to anything. This theory is as these two systems interac the people will up and form a new system and do away with the state gov't and control etc. The goal is no gov't and no control. A Utopian society of the people. This happens when the synthesis occurs. Marx knew it couldn't happen by itself so he started the communist party.

What is the Best form of Gov't? [message #13153 is a reply to message #13149] Sun, 16 February 2020 19:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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What is the Best form of Gov't?

In both OT & NT the ideal was a theocracy. There is no ideal economic system as all gov'ts are sinful and under the curse. For the first 3 centuries xians wouldn't go into the army or work for the gov't. According to 1 Tim we are to prayfor peaceful gov't that will allow us to meet and worship in peace.
The Xians attitude toward these systems.

1. We have to realize that the only perfect system is that which will be realized when gods kingdom is on the earth.
2. all economic systems are sinful because society is sinful.
3. Every economic system is of this world system and scripturaly we are to judge it in principle and practise. Some more than others.
4. Three things have historically destroyed gov'ts. - drunkeness low morality high taxes
5. all the world systems belong to the gentile powers of Dan.2. All will ultimately be overthrown by the kingdom of God.
6. all systems are under the control of Satan.Luke4/6-8, John 18/33-36

Weakness of the capitalistic system.

1. It permits a great amount of inequality. The top 1% have over 50% of the income and wealth in the US.
2. It subordinates the meeting of human need to the economic advantage of those who have money and power eg. Drug and medical profession. Growing rich off peoples needs (Mark here: The golden rule? He that has the gold rules!)
3. People can become victims of mass unemployment. In many cultures the family unit is self sustaining.
4.Capitalism places emphasis on position and the accumulation of possessions s standards of success.
5. It is a system which has largely robed labour of its dignity. ie: mass production and materialism. Work is no longer seen as a vocation or a service to fulfill to fellow man. Just a job that pays to buy what I want. No concern for doing a good job.

The weakness of the Socialistic system is share and share alike. God doesn't give to all equally. Parable of the talents

The scriptural view of Economics

1. OT View
- God is the owner of all things. Ps. 24/1
- man is the steward of Gods possessions. Gen. 1 with 28-29 Gen.2/8-9, Mal. 3/8-11
- Materialism is condemned. Is. 5/8, Amos 6/1, 3/6
The OT view is that they were to have honesty and accuracy in all their dealings with others Prov. 28/8, Job 1/21

2. NT View
Money and possessions are not evil in themselves. Whether they are is dependant on 3 essential factors.
- Our attitude toward them. Any affection.
Zacheus Luke 19 vs rich young ruler Matt. 19 Jesus dealt with each differently because their attitude was different.
- Our use of our possessions. Luke 16 we are to use them wisely
- whether we seek excessive accumulations as security or ends in themselves Luke 12/13-21

Jesus attitude toward possessions

- riches and possessions can be a deception of the devil to give a false sense of security. In Luke 12/6-20 he mentions himself 11 times and God not once
- Security is not in seeking security but seeking the kingdom Matt. 6/33
- It is extremely difficult to be rich and spiritual too. Matt. 19/16-24

riches generally create class divisions in society which is carried over into the church. James 2/1-9. It tends to break down fellowship and unity in the church.

Question? How can the rich avoid condemnation from God and class distinctions?

- By recognizing the ground is level at the foot of the cross James 1/9-11
- Let the rich rejoice in being brought low and bearing the stigma of being a Xian and using your riches for Gods glory 1m Tim. 6/17-19
- Desire to have God and others approve and accept you because of your good name and character and not because of what your wealth and position give you. Prov. 22/12

[Updated on: Sun, 16 February 2020 19:15]

How are Christians to View Possessions [message #13154 is a reply to message #13153] Mon, 17 February 2020 21:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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How are Christians to View Possessions

To maintain a scriptural attitude toward them means:

1. To have no affection for them Col.3/1 The faith message is designed to deliver us from the spirit of this world that possessions bank deposits insurances etc are the basis for material security. Insurance for eg for can only comfort

2. Don't seek possessions seek the kingdom. Matt. 6/33 Which will be abundantly manifested Mark 10

3. Avoid covetousness at all cost or it will cost it us everything (the kingdom) Eph.5/3-5, Luke 12/1-15, Col.3/5, 1 Cor. 6/9

4. Don't let possessions possess us. Share what we have. James 2

5. Keep a scriptural perspective toward them. Job1/21, 1 Tim.6/7, You can't take them with you.

Ways to use our possessions

1. To meet the essential needs of life. Matt.6/11 Jesus & the apostles had a money bag. They had to eat and sleep.

2. To minister to the needs of others. John 13/29

3. To pay taxes to the gov't for their support Rom.13/7, Matt. 22/17

4. To support the Lords work. 1 Cor.16/1-2 Cor.9, Gal. 6/6-8

5. We are to hold and use material possessions for physical and mental well being. John 2 Mark 6/30-31, Luke 5/27-31

Christian Responsibility in our Economic System [message #13155 is a reply to message #13154] Mon, 17 February 2020 22:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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What is the Christians responsibility in the economic system in which we live?

We are expected to be faithful disciples

1. Faithful by our conduct. Matt. 5/13-15
Our values are to be different from the world. Matt.6/15-34 5/40-45 We will show respect for our employers and unlike the world will not loaf strike or criticize them. We will be reliable and give an honest days work. We do that as we are really serving Jesus and not our employer. Titus 2/9, Col.3 22-25, Luke 3/12-14

2. Faithful by our attitude.
By our attitude we are to be an example to the world of the dignity of work as a God ordained activity. Work was ordained by God in the Garden. Gen. 2/15, Ex. 20/9, 2 Thess. 3/10
work is not the curse. The curse is the hindrances.Gen. 3/17-19 Our attitude should be one of enthusiasm as we are really working for the Lord.Prov. 6/6-11, 20/4, 18/9, 31. Have the attitude that we won't waste our employers time.

3. Faithful by our choice of vocation
It should be one with biblical standards. A vocation with a purpose and doesn't waste time or resources. Not overly secular or worldly. Night clubs tobacco farms teaching gold lessons etc.

We must recover the biblical concept of vocation and calling

1. Because it has been ordained by God all work has a measure of dignity in it if it meets 2 conditions
- it renders a real and necessary service to society
-if it glorifies God

2. The meaning and purpose of work has been distorted by our materialistic society. distorted by the idea one works to make money and buy things to live well.
- earn money - acquire goods - attain status

3.The dignity of work as God intended can only be maintained if:
- we as workers experience an inherent value in everything we do.
- if we recognize who our employer really is

How do we recover the biblical concept of work and calling

We must first see it is a mistake that work is not christian unless it is in some formal religious context. This robs the christian of the basic concept of his calling. Which is to live the christian life in the sphere of employment where God has called us. To be a disciple where he is.

Through the catholic church the concept of layman and clergy came into use.
- layman secular work
- clergy full time religious work
Paul did both at the same time
Every christian is called unto full time christian service. Eph. 4/1 There is only one call and that is the call to discipleship 1 Cor.7/17-24.

If we are called with one calling why does God give us scripture like Eph. 4/11 and 1 Cor.122/28? Within the call to full time discipleship we all receive charismatic gifts to function in the body. Some are give ministry office gifts to bring the body to perfection Eph.6/5-9, Col.22-24

We need to eliminate from our vocabulary and thinking the ecclesiastical distinctions between clergy and laity.
1 Peter 5/1-3 is the only place where the word clergy is used.
1 Peter 2/9 is the only place where the word laity is used.
It is used in the NT as a designation to the whole body including 5f ministry.

All the previous discussion defines what christian vocation is. All work is christian if there is a christian in it. Adm was called as a gardener Paul as tent maker David as a shepherd


1. In all probability god has us in the right place now to complete our discipline and training.
2. He wants to use me where I am right now and mature me there.
3. He has an endtime ministry for every overcomer if that overcomer will allow god to do it in his own time and way.
4 When we rebel against circumstances or cry out to the Lord to move us out of them or try to change circumstances for the better he doesn't answer as won't move us out of his will.
5. stop pleading for a change and ask him why I'm there and what he wants me to do in those circumstances
Definition of Christian Vocation

1. Christian vocation will be a worthwhile job meeting the essential needs of society
2. It must be a job over which a man can pray and be used in it.
3.It ought to be work that has a sense of purpose
4. It ought to be work where the best of my God give talents can be utilized
5.It ought to be a vocation where the limitations are where God intended them to be. Some people make their job their God.

The Economic Order and the Morality of Gambling [message #13156 is a reply to message #13155] Tue, 18 February 2020 16:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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The Economic Order and the Morality of Gambling

1. It is one of the largest sources of income for the gov't. state controlled lotteries,race tracks, casinos, church bingo, stock market.

2. It is a moral crime. God ordained work and labor.
a. It perverts the biblical concept of working for a living
b. It is legalized robbery. It takes advantage of weak sinful humanity in getting something for nothing Prov. 13/11
c. It perverts moral character. It teaches the exploitation of ones neighbor. For someone to win someone has to lose.
d. It undermines the moral fiber of society. Gambling is one aspect of an evil trinity always found together - gambling liquor prostitution. Gambling contributes to charity eg. Hospitals charities boy scouts YMCA etc. Society then looks the other way to liquor and prostitution. Why bite the hand that feeds you.

3. It teaches a double standard of morality. Its illegal for individuals but legal for the state.

4.It is usually run by crime syndicates. Its rotten to the core. The odds are stacked against winning. Even state lotteries. The delusion that revenue from organized gambling helps the state pay its bills makes it easy to overlook the other things.

1. It is morally indecent for a gov't to finance itself on the moral weaknesses of its citizens.
2. The entire history of gambling proves it produces nothing more than poverty crime apolitical corruption and a demoralized society.
3. Playing the stock market is another way of gambling. Getting something without honest labor for it.
The Economic Order and the Morality of Usury and Interest. [message #13157 is a reply to message #13156] Tue, 18 February 2020 17:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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The Economic Order and the Morality of Usury and Interest.

The state regulates the amount of interest that can be charged. The legal term usury has reference to excessive illegal interest.

OT View

The Jew was forbidden to take interest from a fellow jew but allowed to take interest from a gentile. Deut.23/19-20. This principle was for Israel only and not other nations. Ps. 15 A description of a righteous man. Vs 5
Jer. 15/10 He is wondering why he is in a trial
Prov. 28/8 Neh. 5/3-13
There is something morally wrong with taking interest from a brother.

NT View

There is no direct teaching in the NT on interest but it does go far beyond that in its dealings with all a Christians possessions as well as how they relate to all men including your enemies. Matt. 25/14-28 Luke 19/12-25Luke 6/30-35. Jesus never had to deal with interest as he went further and dwelt with possessions. We are to lend whatever and whenever a need exists expecting nothing in return. Sometimes instead of giving you should show them what the scriptures say about working and eating. Everything we have belongs to God as we are just stewards. A christian will not only take interst but also forgive the debt if necessary Matt.18/21-35

1. The NT principles apply to a Xians day to day relationships and not to society's use of money.
2.since the economic order has been ordained by god then the use of money in business and banking for the purpose of profit is not forbidden.
3. both the OT & NT have reference to consumer loans on a person to person basis not business loans. However the conduct of a Xian is not always the way of the world.

The NT suggests certain principles

1. That a Xian would avoid involvement in credit and interest or money lending business.
Why? Because of Jesus teaching on the giving of our possessions. Because of the many problems that arise in credit. Eg foreclosure,court litigation,garnishees, and lending money for sinful purposes

2. The study of interest in both OT & NT would indicate a Xian should not charge interest. Money or income should be earned for goods and services rendered. Money for a Xian should be a medium of exchange. It should not be used to get more money.

3. Should a Xian who has money on hand in the bank allow the bank to pay him interest? Overcomers will not so concerned about money that they will have that much in the bank. If he does have it he will realize he is only a steward of Gods possessions. A Xian should not save money in the bank for the purpose of getting a return. The bank is a convenience as are checks.

The NT principle is: lend expecting nothing in return and set your affections on things above.

Christian Responsibilities to Government [message #13173 is a reply to message #13157] Sun, 23 February 2020 20:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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Christian Responsibilities to Government

Obedience to Gov't and Authority
(For a full study of this listen to Romans tapes # 734 #735)

1.We must obey all gov't and authority good or bad. Rom. 13
2. All authority is raised up by God. Rom. 13/1-7
3. Rulers are accountable to God alone. David would not touch Saul and killed the man who killed Saul.
4. The principle of authority must be maintained.
- to maintain law and order or else there will be chaos
- to restrain sin
- to punish the nations
5. Pray for our Gov't

New Testament Non-Resistance

The NT attitude toward the state

1. It is a divinely ordained institution for the administration of law order and justice with aid of force in a sinful society.
2. The outlook of the NT is non political. It doesn't speak of how the state should run its affairs.
3.The NT shows there are two separate kingdoms. Gods and the worlds. The xian is not in any sense to part of the worlds kingdom. We are in it but not of it. The xian has an obligation to pray for it and obey its laws.
4. God who commands our obedience to the state is the one who sets our limits on what our obedience should be.
- obedience applies only in matters which regard society s a whole. Eg law and order, taxation, respect for authority. Etc
- in matters of faith and morals uncompromising obedience to the word is required and disobedience to authority.

Definitions and distinctions between Pacifism and NT Non-resistance

Pacifism is opposition to war between nations as a means of settling disputes and advocates universal peace among nations. It includes non-violent coercion like trade embargo as a means of attaining their ends. Social political and personality.
Their motives vary with some believing it to achieve their ends. Christian pacifists motive is love. Pacifism unlike xian non-resistance is a form of humanism where human welfare is the highest good. Pacifism is not grounded in the word as Jesus predicted wars would continue until he comes.

Non-resistance is a personal attitude toward all we meet. We're not conscientious objectors we are conscientious abstainers. Pacifism primarily takes the attitude of abolition of war but they usually use non violent resistance.

Non-resistance is the abstention from use of force or violence by xians in the attainment of ones goals in all his relationships personal social governmental or religious. Non-resistance rejects all forms of coercion even the non violent ones. Any kind of resistance is anti-christ. Eg petition sit-ins demonstrations, picketing, boycott non payment of taxes.
Religious and non religious pacifism [message #13174 is a reply to message #13173] Sun, 23 February 2020 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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Religious and non religious pacifism

Non religious pacifism

1. International peace plans. Many plans have been advocated to abolish war. They are all humanistic and obviously didn't work.
- league of nations was established after WW1 was a world court designed to settle disputes between nations without resorting to war.
-The United Nations established after WW2 for the same reason with the same result. Its a place where nations send their representatives to justify why they are fighting and planning wars. A political arena. Its just a tool for the anti-Christ in the last days. Many pacifists aren't consistent as they oppose war until their country or some interest of theirs is involved in it.

2. Political Pacifists (Gandhi in India)
He sought to overthrow British rule in India by non violent means. He refused to obey authority spoke out politically against British rule and encouraged others to do the same.

3. Social pacifists (race relations)
Egs would be Martin Luther King and the NACCP
the use of non violent means to force society labour capitalists institutional churches and govt to change their views or practices and give in to the pacifists demands.
Sit-ins boycotts strikes public marches demonstrations picketing civil disobedience.
Martin Luther King had the means to do it and it worked but it isn't NT. The purpose of the pacifist is to achieve his own ends

4. The individual or personal pacifist. Eg conscientious objector.
In time of war he refused to fight because of conscientious scruples against killing He may refuse to fight as their is no sense in defending a political system that he doesn't agree with or that will change in a few years. Eg Vietnam.

Religious Pacifism

They condone or advocate non violent resistance

1. Quakers eg William Penn Pennsylvania
He based his colony on pacifism as a basis for gov't. His idea was to get as many pacifist in gov't as possible and their would be no need for police. Quakers today are generally pacifists

2. Liberal Catholic and protestant denominations. Many priests and clergyman are in the front ranks of demonstration. Pacifist clergyman are found in all denominations. Gandhi was the ideal of religious pacifists. Pacifism is one of the main doctrines of the social gospel. The liberal view is that man is basically good but when that was proved wrong they went to Neo-orthodoxy which teaches man is basically bad.
Non resistance [message #13175 is a reply to message #13174] Mon, 24 February 2020 17:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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Non Resistance in History

There re 4 historical steps in the attitude of Christendom toward non resistance in history.

1. the first 300 yrs. Non resistance was practiced in all relationships and wouldn't even go to court.
2. 400-1095 AD. The just war! They would only fight just wars.
- it had to have a just cause like where life or property was threatened.
- it had to have a just intention. To restore peace or vindicate justice
- it had to have just conduct. Carried out in a spirit of love. An attitude of love toward prisoners wounded noncombatants.
- it had to be carried out by a king or prince . If the people did it anarchy would result
- you had to fight without an attitude of retaliation. You just fought to win.
3. 1095-1291 The holy wars
Wars were fought to liberate the holy land from the pagans. God was supposed to be on their side yet they didn't always liberate it.
4. 1300 now.
Divinely ordained wars for freedom. The enemy is always wrong and inspired by the devil. The American revolutionary war was in direct violation of Rom. 13. In the American civil war both sides thought they had God on their side.
WW1, WW2 Korean war Vietnam.
Luke 4/5-6 All the kingdoms of the world belong to Satan.

New Testament Non Resistance

The church went downhill with the arrival of Emperor Constantine 306 AD. The non christian historian Harnack records in his books 3 reasons for NT non resistance. Although he did it critically.
- They believed the NT condemned on principle the xian being involved in war and violence
- The officers would often order the common soldiers to execute captured soldiers etc
- The unconditional military oath to give allegiance to the flag. You have to obey orders regardless of morality
(pages 176-187 in deeper life book)

Jesus Attitude Toward the State

1. He recognized the state and its legitimate functions.
Matt. 22/15 the right to collect taxes
Luke13/31-33 he obeyed the command to leave
2. He recognized the leaders authority was from above. John 19/8-11
3. He recognized there were two kingdoms and his wasn't to be confused with the worlds. John 18/33-36
4. His teachings on non resistance were to be limited to his disciples
Matt. 5/38-48 with 5/1

Arguments (with answers) Against Non Resistance

1. Rom 13/1-7 to obey the gov't we have to go to war fight and kill when ordered to.
Answer: it follows Rom 12/17-21 also Matt 5
2. Matt.22/21 You have to give Caesar what is Caesars eg obedience
Answer: the second half says obey god too. But he is talking there about taxes
3. Jesus in cleansing the temple used violence John 2/13-16
Answer: It doesn't say he was using the whip on people. He had to get the animals out too. But this was an angry God putting sinners out of his temple because they were blaspheming it. God does many things we can't like take revenge Rom. 12
4. Two swords Luke 22/35-38
Answer: Two swords would have insufficient to defend themselves. It couldn't have been for defense as it contradicted his teaching on non resistance. He couldn't have meant literal swords as he healed the one who got hurt. Luke 22/47-51, Matt. 26/51-54
He didn't need swords because he could ask for angels. If he was talking about literal swords then why vs 54? The successful use of force would defeat his purpose in coming into the world to die.

John 18/36
His disciples in Acts and the epistles didn't take him literally. Only misguided Christians do.

Separation of Church and state [message #13176 is a reply to message #13175] Mon, 24 February 2020 17:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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Separation of Church and state

both the state and the church are ordained by God and are clearly distinguished as separate in function. Heb. 11/10,13, Matt. 22/21, John 18/36 the limit of our relationship to the state is obedience. History has shown the utter failure of trying to wed the church and state.
- Constantine tired it and that is when the church lost the HS.
- The Catholic church in the middle ages
- Calvin in Geneva
- Zwingli in Switzerland
- Cromwell and the Puritans in England
- William Penn in Pennsylvania
You can't bring the NT to the unregenerate. The anti-christ will be the only one who will wed the church and state successfully.

Views on Separation

1. Absolute separation- eg Russianism no rights to the church. A secular state without religion
2. Union. Some monarchies world council of churches etc.
3. Compromise view. Using tax money to support certain aspects of religion
4. Separation of church and state. Not Christianity and the state. In the sense it is denied the right to exist.

Separation of Church and State

1. The North American practice of petitions by the church or xians against the gov't is unscriptural
2. Employment of xians in gov't or politics was grounds for excommunication in the early church.
3. Xians in uniform killing and using violence for a kingdom of the world is a contradiction and unscriptural.

[Updated on: Tue, 25 February 2020 16:19]

Politics and Voting [message #13177 is a reply to message #13176] Tue, 25 February 2020 17:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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Politics and Voting


Why be concerned with things beneath when we are supposed to have our affections on things above. The scriptures condemn petitions because they are motivated by a spirit of criticism against the gov't. Also influenced by a spirit of rebellion.
Jude 8-9 Satan wanted Moses body to do something like enshrine it so people could come and touch it and get yrs out of purgatory or get blessed or something. Michael the chief warrior prince wouldn't even speak against him.
1 Peter 2/11-17, Rom. 13/1-7, Titus 3/1-2 A xian is not to be concerned with who is ruling. A dictator a president or whoever but with obedience. Ezra 4.

The Samaritans sent a petition to the king with the result the work on the temple was stopped. The Jews petitioned Pilate to crucify Jesus. The roman system from 600 BC was republican right up to 100 BC. This is what the American system is based on. In 100 BC Julius Caesar became dictator and nota word in the bible says anything except to submit to it.

Israel was completely free with god as their king. There were only their spiritual obligations. As long as they trusted the Lord no nation could ever defeat them. It was only when they sinned that god sold them into slavery to Babylon Assyria Persia etc. In all the OT God never said resist. He just said submit to the punishment. Jer. 27

Should a Xian enter Politics?

The early church had no participation. A xian can't identify himself with a lodge society fraternal society or political parties or clubs. 11 Cor. 6/14-18 It is a contradiction to be involved with anything that the kingdom of this world is involved in.
Should a xian enter politics? What methods would be used in campaigning? Mud slinging criticism railing accusations. These are the worlds ways. A person would never get in using xian methods of love and speaking only that which edifies.

A xians first loyalty is to Christ not the gov't. To represent god he couldn't properly represent his constituents. The question is can a person be a xian in office serving God first obeying the word and his conscience? He would also be representing sodomites murders etc. To use xian methods a man could never get elected and stay there.

Question: Wouldn't a man have a good influence for God if he took high office?

Jesus twice refused high office. John 6/14-15 To participate in the system is to defend it. Adopt its creed follow its methods promote its aims and programs. You also have to take the oath. The conclusion is 11 cor. 6/14-18

Voting Why vote?

You're generally electing an unregenerate. Like voting in the church it promotes strife discord and division rather than striving for harmony. Some say we have a democratic right to vote. But Rom 13 doesn't give us the right to vote Gods man out of office. Most xians take a superficial attitude toward voting. Why should we take an interest in the world system. Dan.4/17, Rom. 3, Is 10/5-14

For God to give us the right to vote and in that way select his leader is foolishness. It subjects Gods will to the people. A good case can be made from scripture on the argument that the practice of electing and removing leaders by voting petition and impeachment is directly contrary to the revealed will of God.

The people according to the scriptures are to completely subject themselves to their leader. 1 Peter 2/13-14 The people are told to respect honor and obey their leaders and never speak against them. The best form of gov't is an enlightened monarchy. All the worlds system is diametrically opposed to the kingdom of God.

An overcomer will:
- obey states laws but not make them
- obey leader but not appoint them.
- honor rulers but not fellowship with themselves
- fear and respect authorities but not criticism or remove them.
Responsibility to the State [message #13178 is a reply to message #13177] Wed, 26 February 2020 16:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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Question: If a xian shares in the protection of the state and then should we help defend it?

Answer: God alone is our protection. Ps. 91,Ps. 34/7
The state won't protect us. It will persecute us if we don't conform to what they are. They owe us what they give us. Rom. 13/3-4 We pay our taxes to pay for garbage removal eg.
Acts 5/28-29,40-42 We are to obey the state on everything except where it contradicts the revealed will of God. We owe total submission in everything but limited obedience.

Capital Punishment

Gen.9/6, Rom. 13/3-4
God has given the state the authority to wield the sword but not the xian. Its the same as in the army. God grants the stae the right to an army and to capital punishment

Jury Service

A xian would decline because of conscience and obedience to the word.
1 Cor. 5/12-13 We are not to judge those outside the church.
1 Cor. 6/1-9 We are not permitted to defend ourselves let alone defending one party against another. Let unregenerate pass judgment on things in the world.
For jury service you have to swear an oath. James 5, Matt. 5


Universal conscription was unheard of until 1800.they used to hire mercenary armies. Conscription started with Napoleon. This began the persecution of religious groups who believed in non resistance.
Revolutionary war and the war of 1812 no conscription
The civil war some conscription on both sides
WW1 brought universal conscription with conscientious objectors allowed to do farm work etc. Those who wouldn't went to prison or detention camps
WW 2 Universal conscription with more provision for conscientious objectors
The Social Responsibility of the Church [message #13179 is a reply to message #13178] Wed, 26 February 2020 17:13 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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The Social Responsibility of the Church

Different views

1. The monastic concept - You withdraw from the world and escape from sinful society. Our only responsibility is to escape to a monetary

2. Social gospel - It identifies the kingdom of God with social improvement. Eg educate the masses, clear slums, solve racial problems etc.

3. Biblical view We must distinguish between the mission and the purpose of the church and the social responsibility of the xian as an individual in society.

Jesus was an ethical teacher but never gave a program of improvement to the church. Matt 5, James 2/17-18 he is speaking to individuals not organizations. 1 John. 3/17-18
The mission and purpose of the church is Luke 10/1-20, Matt. 10 Matt. 28, Mark 16
Acts 6 was not social work. It was xians feeding and caring for their bro/sis in a temporary situation. In no other place in the NT was this done.

The churches responsibility is not social work. The church today gets involved because it has not other purpose or anointing or mission. It needs programs ot keep people interested. The task of the church is to educate its people on the principles of living a xian life. In a sinful world and then sending them out to live in it.

The church today confuses:

The kingdom of Israel & the kingdom of God
the church and society.

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