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"We're not to Judge"? Right? [message #11954] Sat, 09 January 2016 09:03 Go to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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If there's any scripture pulled out of context more then others its the one where Jesus says: Judge not that you not be judged.

It appears anytime the conversation ends up where people are talking about sin you generally hear someone pipe up and say, "Well were not to Judge" or maybe "I'm not the Judge".

I was wondering why do people make this comment when all your doing is quoting what God says in the Bible concerning sin. You hear this phrase from the world, and now even the Christian camp.

There is something about the conversation about any "sin", that brings someones response about judging. It always sounds pious and coated with spirituality, but is it always scriptural? And is this what Jesus is telling His disciples that your never to judge?

Here's the world's response:

Quote:



6 So Lot went out to them through the doorway, shut the door behind him, 7 and said, “Please, my brethren, do not do so wickedly! 8 See now, I have two daughters who have not known a man; please, let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you wish; only do nothing to these men, since this is the reason they have come under the shadow of my roof.”

9 And they said, “Stand back!” Then they said, “This one came in to stay here, and he keeps acting as a judge; now we will deal worse with you than with them.” So they pressed hard against the man Lot, and came near to break down the door. 10 But the men reached out their hands and pulled Lot into the house with them, and shut the door. 11 And they struck the men who were at the doorway of the house with blindness, both small and great, so that they became weary trying to find the door.




Here we see Lot just saying, "do not do so wickedly", and the response: "He keeps acting as judge".

Evidently they had heard some comments from Lot before.

Jesus said; Judge not that you be not Judged, but then a few scriptures down He says; cast not your pearls before the swine or give that which is holy to the dogs.

You have to make a judgement call to discern who would be called swine or dogs.

Whenever scripture is quoted people feel like maybe their being judged, but if anyone is judging its the Word of God that is cutting as a sharp two edged sword.

Any rate this whole concept is interesting but I realized recently that you sure hear this scripture quoted a lot lately.


Gary


Re: "We're not to Judge"? Right? [message #11955 is a reply to message #11954 ] Sat, 09 January 2016 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Pulling scripture out of context and walking in the flesh rather than the spirit is something far too many Christians are guilty of...myself having been guilty of more times than I can count. I think Jesus in several places in the Gospels is telling and teaching followers to examine ourselves and don't be hypocrites. We're to always judge sin as sin, whether in our own lives or others, but not judge the person because there is only one Judge, Jesus. He tells us over and over that God hates hypocrisy(and all sin) yet He loves the sinner.

Think on this, Jesus came for one reason, to seek and save those which was lost. That's everyone; He alone can judge because He alone is without sin and qualified. I don't know how well I have 'gotten this down', but I know I sure have failed in the past...Thankfully I wasn't condemned to hell because Jesus loves me. At no point did He condone the sin of hypocrisy or misrepresenting His Word by taking scripture out of the context in which He meant it; but He always loved me, the sinner.

btw: we are to examine ourselves to see if we be in the faith.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: "We're not to Judge"? Right? [message #11956 is a reply to message #11955 ] Sun, 10 January 2016 16:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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james wrote on Sat, 09 January 2016 13:18

Pulling scripture out of context and walking in the flesh rather than the spirit is something far too many Christians are guilty of...myself having been guilty of more times than I can count.We're to always judge sin as sin, whether in our own lives or others, but not judge the person because there is only one Judge, Jesus. I think Jesus in several places in the Gospels is telling and teaching followers to examine ourselves and don't be hypocrites. He tells us over and over that God hates hypocrisy(and all sin) yet He loves the sinner.

Think on this, Jesus came for one reason, to seek and save those which was lost. That's everyone; He alone can judge because He alone is without sin and qualified. I don't know how well I have 'gotten this down', but I know I sure have failed in the past...Thankfully I wasn't condemned to hell because Jesus loves me. At no point did He condone the sin of hypocrisy or misrepresenting His Word by taking scripture out of the context in which He meant it; but He always loved me, the sinner.

btw: we are to examine ourselves to see if we be in the faith.


Don't know if you understand what I am saying here. Whether your a sinner or saint God still forgives. After examining yourself your called to preach the whole council of God. The point of the post is to understand that the world is trying to use scripture to silence Christianity.

In Jesus statement: "Do not judge, or you will be judged". Many people use this verse to silence the quoting of scripture, interpreting Jesus' meaning as "You don't have the right to tell me I'm wrong". Taken in isolation, Jesus command "Do not judge" does indeed seem to preclude all negative assessments. However, there is much more to the passage than those three words.

The Bibles command that we not judge others does not mean we cannot show discernment. Immediately after Jesus says, "Do not judge", He says "Do not give dogs what is sacred, do not throw your pearls to swine." A little later in the same sermon, He says, "Watch out for false prophets...By their fruit you will recognize them". How are we to discern who are the "dogs" and "pigs" and "false prophets" unless we have the ability to make a judgement call on doctrines and deeds?

Also, the Bible's command that we not judge does not mean all actions are equally moral or that truth is relative. The Bible clearly teaches that truth is objective, eternal, and inseparable from God's character. Anything that contradicts the truth is a lie, but to call something a "lie" is to pass judgement.

To call adultery or murder sin is likewise to pass judgement but its also to agree with God. When Jesus said not to judge others, He did not mean that no one can identify sin for what it is, based on God's definition of sin.

Christians are often accused of "judging" or intolerance when they speak out against sin. But opposing sin is not wrong. Holding aloft the standard of righteousness naturally defines unrighteousness and draws the slings and arrows of those who choose to sin over godliness. John the Baptist's warning incurred the wrath of Herodias when he spoke out against her adultery with Herod. She eventually silenced John, but she could not silence the truth.

Believers are warned against judging others unfairly or unrighteously, but Jesus commends "right" judgement, (John 7:24), we are to be discerning (Cols. 1:9, I Thess 5:21). We are to preach the whole council of God, including the Bible's teaching on sin (Acts 20:27; II Tim 4:2). We are to gently confront erring brothers and sisters in Christ (Gals. 6:1). We are to practice church discipline; (Matt. 18:15-17). We are to speak the truth in Love (Ephs. 4:15).

Christians are called to preach the whole council of God.

If John the Baptist would of not said anything, he would of had a much longer life on this earth. But he chose to tell someone they were living in adultery. I'm sure he had past sins that he had to deal with as well. It would of been a sad day if he would of thought well I'm a sinner how can I say anything to Herod.

But the whole point of this post is to say that in these last days, the tendency of the world is to tell everyone "were not to judge", so they can feel good about their sins. Let's not mention, Adultery its called an "affair", Sodomy is now called "being Gay", Fornication is called "living together", etc. etc..

I'm sure God was not displeased with John the Baptist, when he told Herod and his wife that they were adulterers. John was not judging them he was tell them what God thought about their sinful lives.

BTW Paul called himself the chief of sinners and later he makes a judgement call on a young man in the Corinthian church, even turning him over to the devil.



Gary







Re: "We're not to Judge"? Right? [message #11957 is a reply to message #11956 ] Tue, 12 January 2016 05:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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There are situations where a Christian is allowed to make judgement calls:

Quote:



5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named[a] among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.




For some reason this subject bothers some people so they pull out of context the Words of Jesus and forget all the other scriptures that are contrary to what they are quoting out of context.

Quote:



9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”




Paul is saying not to even keep company with someone in the church and that your not even to eat with such a person. In order to recognized what these individuals are doing you would have to make a judgement call. We can't have this attitude well I sinned and I'm no better then them or were found opposing the scriptural teaching on judging.

Quote:



6 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 4 If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? 5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren?




Your obeying God when you take all of scripture and consider the whole council of God. As with anything in the Bible you'll be misunderstood but that is just part of walking with the Lord. Men change scriptures to fit their situation rather then take God at His revealed Word.

The question is; What was the Lord referring to when He states:

Quote:


7 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.




The Lord says, Judge not, Paul says; there are times you are called to judge.

There is a tendency from the world to silence anyone concerning the "S" word. The problem with the whole world is they are in "Sin". I know Jesus came to die for sinners, but sinners have to be told what "sin" is in God's eyes. We cannot "assume" that everyone in the world knows what sin is.

Gary


Re: "We're not to Judge"? Right? [message #11959 is a reply to message #11957 ] Wed, 13 January 2016 06:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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I think I understand you, I was speaking more of the hypocrisy point that Jesus was making as well.

I'm opening the tax office this week and haven't had a lot of time, plus for some reason I can't log in to the forum my office computer so I'm using the community computer this morning. I'll check with William when I get some free time to figure it out.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: "We're not to Judge"? Right? [message #11960 is a reply to message #11959 ] Wed, 13 January 2016 18:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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james wrote on Wed, 13 January 2016 07:22

I think I understand you, I was speaking more of the hypocrisy point that Jesus was making as well.

I'm opening the tax office this week and haven't had a lot of time, plus for some reason I can't log in to the forum my office computer so I'm using the community computer this morning. I'll check with William when I get some free time to figure it out.


That's a whole big subject in itself. I was thinking no matter what subject you approach in the Word there's probably a dozen or more angles you could branch off into, that is part of the whole picture.

People make comments like: "Well their going to hell for their deeds". That's when it becomes judging because we cannot know this information, God could save a man at any time. We know that sinners will spend eternity in hell but as for individuals only God knows if they'll repent and be saved. We as Christians can agree with the over all picture presented in the Bible, but from there its all in the Lords hands on who will be saved. Hope that makes since.

Tax season, my does time fly. This has been a strange year people have been spending money like crazy at work. I guess they think the economies thriving.

I overheard a lot of people talking at work today, saying if they won the billion dollar lotto that they were giving everybody a million. Yeah sure! That's a scary thought, that is: having a billion dollars. A lot of scriptures come to mind on that one.

Anyway have fun figuring taxes.


Gary







Re: "We're not to Judge"? Right? [message #11962 is a reply to message #11959 ] Thu, 14 January 2016 08:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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james wrote on Wed, 13 January 2016 06:22

... for some reason I can't log in to the forum my office computer so I'm using the community computer this morning. I'll check with William when I get some free time to figure it out.


I can't log in using certain browsers (Chrome) but Firefox works, at least for me! Everything else works with the other browsers (I can read the posts) but I am not able to log in with my username.

Blessings,
William


I want to believe!
Re: "We're not to Judge"? Right? [message #11963 is a reply to message #11962 ] Thu, 14 January 2016 08:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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I knew you'd know what to do. I was using Chrome...Thanks


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: "We're not to Judge"? Right? [message #12001 is a reply to message #11963 ] Wed, 02 March 2016 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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I mentioned Romans 14 yesterday and how Paul lays out the way we're to treat one another. And as I think back on 'judging' others (instead of working out my own salvation with fear and trembling) I remember doing exactly opposite of what scripture tells us to do. If someone didn't ................fill in the blank, we(I) couldn't understand how a fellow believer could disobey the 'clear' teachings we received. I don't want to bog down with every little thing, but a good example was 'worldly dress'...we butchered that attempt at discernment. Tennis shoes with a few 'stripes' on them (Addias) or a swoope (Nike) was totally unacceptable for true overcomers...it made us like the world. What if it did? Why didn't I (we) apply Rom. 14 and love each other? I guess the truth is that I (we) didn't know the difference between what was sin and what wasn't and was too immature to see that others were also immature...even if the latest 'zap message' was true and it was sin for a woman to have on jeans(I don't think it is) where was my (our) patience with other allowing them time to get it into their hearts. Weak in the faith? I was the one weak in the faith. I think that's what Jesus was addressing in Matthew 7:1-5


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: "We're not to Judge"? Right? [message #12002 is a reply to message #12001 ] Thu, 03 March 2016 04:05 Go to previous message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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james wrote on Wed, 02 March 2016 11:03

I mentioned Romans 14 yesterday and how Paul lays out the way we're to treat one another. And as I think back on 'judging' others (instead of working out my own salvation with fear and trembling) I remember doing exactly opposite of what scripture tells us to do. If someone didn't ................fill in the blank, we(I) couldn't understand how a fellow believer could disobey the 'clear' teachings we received. I don't want to bog down with every little thing, but a good example was 'worldly dress'...we butchered that attempt at discernment. Tennis shoes with a few 'stripes' on them (Addias) or a swoope (Nike) was totally unacceptable for true overcomers...it made us like the world. What if it did? Why didn't I (we) apply Rom. 14 and love each other? I guess the truth is that I (we) didn't know the difference between what was sin and what wasn't and was too immature to see that others were also immature...even if the latest 'zap message' was true and it was sin for a woman to have on jeans(I don't think it is) where was my (our) patience with other allowing them time to get it into their hearts. Weak in the faith? I was the one weak in the faith. I think that's what Jesus was addressing in Matthew 7:1-5



Yeah, all that's true, but there's not a church on this earth where people don't judge each other because of outward appearance. It happens all the time. It's just that it comes out in a lot of hidden forms that is not as recognizable as the clothing thing.



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