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The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9791] Sun, 22 September 2013 00:38 Go to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Thought this topic would be of interest, especially after reading `The harlot Church System,` that was being discussed. Also james was asking (way back - Sat. 19th Nov. 2011)`Could Babylon the great be used to describe more than one thing?`
In light of the following I believe it is relevant.

Ancient Babylon.

We all know that it is one of the earliest centres of civilization on the Euphrates & Tigris rivers. When King Nebuchadnezzar ruled(6th century BC) Babylon was the biggest & most sophisticated city in the world at that time.

It had a population of about one million people & had power & prosperity for fifteen centuries. It`s hanging gardens were classed as one of the wonders of the ancient world.

Then in the 4th century BC it was abandoned & rapidly disappeared, but was never actually destroyed precisely as specifically predicted by the prophets.

Modern Babylon

A newspaper correspondent from the Melbourne Age took a day off at the end of the Gulf war & went to inspect the ruins of Babylon. He reported:

`To my amazement a city is emerging from the swamp into which it had sunk during more than two thousand years of decay & neglect. Walls have been rebuilt along the Processional Way leading to the Ishtar Gate. A replica of this famed Ishtar Gate has been completed in blue-grey glazed bricks with relief carvings.

The bitumen surface on the street itself, which remarkably dates from the time of Nebuchadnezzar, has been uncovered. The great Ziggurat, with its seven steps has been constructed; together with the crenellated fortifications along the Processional Route.

Millions of bricks have been used to construct its most famous features, including Nebuchadnezzar`s Throne room, his massive Southern Palace, Temples & a 4,000 seat Amphitheatre. There is still writing on the walls of the Processional Way.`

President Hussein had provided an `open cheque` for the task & even had the bricks inscribed `Restored in the Era of Saddam Hussein.`

After the Gulf war, the USA & the UN have made this project a priority. Watch this video & be amazed at what is arising in our midst.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjW5Oj6WNco


Marilyn C
Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9792 is a reply to message #9791 ] Sun, 22 September 2013 03:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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It is interesting that men of the world would even think of restoring an ancient city like this. Iraq does have enough oil money to rebuild.

Part of Babylon must of existed in New Testament times. Read this quote from Peter:

Quote:

I Peter 5:12 By Silvanus, our faithful brother as I consider him, I have written to you briefly, exhorting and testifying that this is the true grace of God in which you stand.

13 She who is in Babylon, elect together with you, greets you; and so does Mark my son. 14 Greet one another with a kiss of love.

Peace to you all who are in Christ Jesus. Amen.


There must of been a body of believers in that area or why else make this statement.

Another thing is; that Babylon is mentioned about 274 times in scripture. It is definitely going to play a roll in these end times.


Gary


Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9796 is a reply to message #9792 ] Mon, 23 September 2013 20:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Gary, yes I believe the city of Babylon will certainly play a big role in these end times of the Gentiles rule.

Now here is another interesting bit of information concerning the city of Babylon. In Ancient times the city of Babylon only had river traffic, as it was well up on the rivers away from the ocean. Today however that is different. The Iraqi`s have been deepening their river to make it navigable for ocean going liners.

An American space shuttle was photographing the earth through a wide-angled lens. The series was shown on national Television in Australia. One part was very interesting & commented on by Peter Fend of the Australian. (Newspaper)

`The Iraq Government claimed it had a secret weapon against Iran; speculation centred on Exocet Missiles or Poison Gas. However satellite images suggest that the weapon is a massive piece of hydrological engineering east of Basra. Iraq has built a huge water-barrier fifty kilometres long by ten kilometres wide & it is still growing. The Karkheh & Karun Rivers have been diverted & the salt lakes drained into the system.`

Could this eventually provide a navigable canal all the way to Babylon?

(Note -The city of Babylon in Revelation 18 will be a port for all manner of sea going vessels.)



[Updated on: Mon, 23 September 2013 20:36]


Marilyn C
Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9804 is a reply to message #9796 ] Tue, 24 September 2013 16:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Somehow I think that Babylon can represent the whole world system that we see presently. Many say New York is Babylon.

Do you think the scripture is speaking of a literal city?

Just wondering.

Gary





[Updated on: Tue, 24 September 2013 16:18]

Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9813 is a reply to message #9804 ] Wed, 25 September 2013 01:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Yes Gary I agree that Babylon does represent the whole World System & the place that will be its centre - its Religious, Economic & Political Power.

Thus the last World Ruler is called the King of Babylon.(Isa. 14)
We are also told the area that this man comes from -Assyria. He is called the Assyrian.( Isa. 31:4 - 9)

The ancient empire of Assyria encompassed Iraq, Syria & Jordan - along the fertile river Euphrates. This area in modern times was divided up by the British after World War 1. The people of this region still refer to themselves as Assyrians & don`t always see the artificial boundaries imposed on them. This area will be the power base of the Assyrian, the last Gentile Global leader -
Regional leader - National leader - International leader - Global leader.

Interestingly the first & last Gentile World Ruler that God showed Daniel was on that spot - Babylon. (Dan. 2: 31)


Marilyn C
Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9824 is a reply to message #9813 ] Thu, 26 September 2013 04:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Hi Marilyn,

By Global leader are you talking about the one called the Anti-Christ?

I assume this is the same terminology, I understand in Australia you may have different terms you use when describing someone or something.

I have always heard that the Anti-Christ (one world ruler) may be Jewish in his background.

In Daniel 2:31 and following it does not indicate that this man is Gentile. Can you show me in which passage you are thinking he is a gentile?

Quote:

Thus the last World Ruler is called the King of Babylon.(Isa. 14)
We are also told the area that this man comes from -Assyria. He is called the Assyrian.( Isa. 31:4 - 9)


After looking at these passages I cannot see where this is talking about the future anti-Christ as the world ruler. What passages point this out?

I will have to dig around here, but I think there are verses that point more to the fact that the Anti-Christ as being Jewish.

Either way I believe there will be a one world leader at some point in time. I like to see in the scriptures where these other concepts come from. Whether it states he is Jewish or Gentile probably has not a great significance in the whole scheme of things. But if God has revealed it then it becomes part of the whole picture.

Gary






Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9825 is a reply to message #9824 ] Thu, 26 September 2013 05:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Hi Gary,

Concerning the Anti-Christ, or Final Gentile Global leader or World Ruler - these terms I like to use as it brings the subject right into our everyday life & world. The term Anti-Christ describes him but the other terms are what people use in relation to our world system. It helps when talking to others.

Now Isa. 14: 4 is talking about Satan & he is referred to as the King of Babylon. We know that he possesses the Anti-Christ at some point & this term reveals the city he controls the world from.

Then in Isa. 10: 23 & 24 we read of the Assyrian whom the Lord will deal with `in that Day,` which is the day of God`s wrath - the tribulation, `a complete destruction.`

Again in Isa. 31: 4 - 8 we read of the Lord of hosts coming down to wage war on My. Zion, at the end of the tribulation, & delivering Israel from the Assyrian who will fall. not by man, but by the `sword` from Christ`s mouth. (Rev. 19: 15 & 21)

Then in Micah 5: 5, 10 we see in that `Day` again that the Lord will deliver Israel from the Assyrian.

I can also show you from Dan. 11 concerning the King of the North, but I`ll let you work through these scriptures first.
And still there are more scriptures to show from which confederacy he emerges.

A very interesting & relevant topic as it brings today`s news right up to speed in relation to God`s word.

(Assyrian - Iraq, Syria & Jordan, - sounds familiar? Where are the trouble spots in the Middle east?)

Hope that helps, Gary.




Marilyn C
Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9829 is a reply to message #9825 ] Thu, 26 September 2013 20:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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I think the idea of a Jewish antichrist might have more of a foundation in antisemitic thought than in reality. Of course this is just my opinion.

If we place any stock in typology, and if we allow that the type extends to race, then we must consider Antiochus Epiphanes who was of Greco-Syrian descent and seems to be portrayed rather accurately in Daniel. This man certainly typifies the end-time antichrist.

This, taken with the passages that Marilyn shared, seems to show that there is more evidence for him being a gentile rather than a Jew.

Some people base the their conclusions on the idea that the Jews will accept this man as their messiah and that they certainly wouldn't accept anyone of non-Jewish decent (to be their messiah.)

One also has to assume that the Jews will actually be looking for "a messiah" when the antichrist comes on the scene. At the present time there are many more secular Jews than there are religious Jews and unless something changes in that regard (certainly possible) then it makes more sense for them to be looking for some political leader to solve their problems, not necessarily a religious messiah. (Again, this is merely speculation on my part.)

Blessings,
William

[Updated on: Thu, 26 September 2013 20:54]


I want to believe!
Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9832 is a reply to message #9825 ] Fri, 27 September 2013 04:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Quote:

(Assyrian - Iraq, Syria & Jordan, - sounds familiar? Where are the trouble spots in the Middle east?)


Hi Marilyn,

I have to go to work shortly but will look up these scriptures over the weekend. I am very interested in this mentioning of the Assyrians. I don't think I have heard this emphasized before.

I remember God used Assyria in the past as an instrument of
judgement against other nations.

Persia is mentioned as well in the scriptures and I believe this is modern day Iran which will play a part in these end times.

Gary




Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9833 is a reply to message #9829 ] Fri, 27 September 2013 04:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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William,

Very good point here. I don't remember where I heard this about the Anti-Christ being Jewish.

I think there was a lot of end time literature that was popular in the eighties that promoted this idea.

Gary


Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9834 is a reply to message #9829 ] Fri, 27 September 2013 04:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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William & Gary.

Yes very good points there William, re; not Jewish. I hadn`t thought of Anti-Semitic or that the Jews will not be looking for their Messiah if many are secular.

Now concerning Daniel 11. This chapter predicted the course of world history involving continual warfare between two great Empires, the legacy of Alexander the Great. The Seleucid dynasty identified as Assyria, the king of the North, & the Ptolomaic dynasty, the king of the South, ie Egypt including Libya.


Daniel is finally directed to jump 2,000 years until the `Time of the End.` (Dan. 11: 40) These two areas in the Middle East would again return to the focus of world attention. Each area would contend for key leadership of the Arab countries, & finally to be recognised as the Moslem Messiah.

Already we have witnessed Nasser of Egypt & Qaddafi of Libya striving for this position. But they failed as God said they would. Daniel foretells that eventually, at the `Appointed Time,` the King of the North will prevail. (Dan. 11: 35 - 43)

Here is established, beyond doubt, that the final leader of Islam, the Moslem Messiah, will appear in the area of the ancient Assyrian Empire - The King of the North. In fact his nationality is specifically confirmed as `The Assyrian` by the prophets Isaiah (10: 24 & 31: Cool and Micah (5: 5).

Ancient Assyria consisted of the present-day nations of Iraq, Syria & Jordan. It is from this area that this leader will come.
These three nations will consolidate in the near future as the power base of the leader of Islam.

Much to look into....




Marilyn C
Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9836 is a reply to message #9833 ] Sat, 28 September 2013 03:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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2 Peter 3:13

13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.


Jesus promised His Kingdom is going to rule on the earth. We as Christians look forward to this promise being fulfilled. The scripture says it will be a new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

The World is also looking for a "New World Order" which I believe is the establishment of Babylon. The belief in the New Age is filled with false hope including global peace and the end of diseases. They believe all guilt and condemnation will vanish and their sinful deeds will no longer haunt them and that they will be able to fulfill their fleshly desires, while satan knows his time is short.

Like the Apostle Peter said, this is what we are looking for, Why? because the Lord promised it.

The New World Order or New Age as some call it I believe is "Babylon". I was thinking they want to build another tower but this time it will take on a different form and shape.

14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

James we talked about this recently concerning the scriptures on angels. I was thinking here that even the Apostle Peter is saying he thought some of the things Paul shared was "hard to understand".

If an Apostle thought some of Paul's writings were hard to understand; then he goes on to say Paul was given wisdom in his epistles which he has written to us.

I guess I never considered closely the fact of looking for the new Kingdom, maybe its because the church here in the states has made it a priority to look for a rapture.

Just some thoughts on this whole subject and how all of these conversations everyone has shared in different posts are related one way or another.

For now we get to watch this world build their Babylon. But we know for sure what will take place when Jesus sets all things in order as He told us in His Word.

This has all been a blessing to me, to help see more of the picture of what God is doing in the earth and in all our lives.

Gary







[Updated on: Sat, 28 September 2013 03:25]

Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9837 is a reply to message #9836 ] Sat, 28 September 2013 03:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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What a wonderful exhortation you gave us Gary. Thank you.
yes `we are looking for new heavens & a new earth in which righteousness dwells.` (2 Peter 3: 13)as you pointed out. And to think that each area of the heavens will be cleansed & have delegated authority under the Lordship of Jesus Christ, for

`...each in his own order; Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ`s at His coming, then comes....`

the setting out toward a conclusion when Christ deals with all other rule & authority & power.

`For He must reign until he has put all His enemies under His feet.` (1 Cor. 15: 23 & 24)

What a wonderful hope.


Marilyn C
Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9840 is a reply to message #9837 ] Sat, 28 September 2013 17:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Hi Marilyn,

I can see where the Anti-Christ or one world ruler could be called the Assyrian in scripture.

As for the Kings of the North we always believed this to be Russia, (the bear), and the Kings of the east China. At least this is always the way I have heard it. They will participate in the battle of Armageddon until the Lord consumes them by fire.

It says in scripture their eyes will melt out of their sockets. Many of the books I have read on this state that its a nuclear explosion that takes place. But God does not need men's fire crackers, (nuclear bombs), to consume the earth with.

Gary
Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9841 is a reply to message #9840 ] Sat, 28 September 2013 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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What do you think of this view given over the internet?

Quote:

Because most 21st century Christians are still looking and secretly hoping for a modern day anti-Christ, which is a figment of the premillenialist and fundamentalist imagination not at all founded on the Bible. We (by which I mean "they") are expecting and praying for an end of the world that the New Testament does not support theologically.



I don't think anyone is secretly looking for an Anti-Christ. But there are a number of scriptures that support a world leader coming on the scene.

Anyone have thoughts on this here?

Gary



Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9843 is a reply to message #9840 ] Sat, 28 September 2013 18:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Good point Gary, re the King of the North.

Just to clarify this yes the King of the (far) North is the Russian Bear. Joel 2 : 20 refers to this when Russia & its great confederacy comes down to the mountains of Israel. And we know that Ezekiel 38 & 39 gives us the details of this war. Be good to start a thread on this as there is so much detail we can watch on the news in the lead up to this.

The King of the North in Daniel however is not of the far North but of the immediate north area in regard to Israel. It is the area, as God`s word tells us in which the Grecian Empire was broken up - North & South.

William rightly said concerning

`Antiochus Epiphanes who was of Greco-Syrian descent and seems to be portrayed rather accurately in Daniel. This man certainly typifies the end-time antichrist.`

This man did arise in Assyria to the North of Israel & the Global Leader will also arise from this area immediately north of Israel.

Glad you brought up that point as it needed to be clarified.


[Updated on: Sat, 28 September 2013 18:29]


Marilyn C
Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9844 is a reply to message #9841 ] Sat, 28 September 2013 18:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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I believe we are all looking for the Christ, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Head of the Body. We are looking for Him in our everyday lives & that glorious hope that when He comes in His glorified body that we will be changed into our glorified bodies that are not made for this world but to dwell in the realms beyond. Oh glorious day, Oh glorious hope.

As regards to a last Gentile world leader the scriptures do definitely say this as mankind driven on by Satan will not stop till they control the world & be worshipped as `We can do it together.` `We are the children of the world.` etc, etc.

As in the past when evil comes to a head then God steps in & judges it. If He did so before hand there could always be the cry `We could have ruled ourselves well...` But as evil is exposed to mankind & all the angelic hosts for what they are then God`s righteous judgements fall.

That view on the internet is typical of the emotional put down
about Christians who believe the truth. Those nay sayers do not present any scriptural backing of their statements as they cannot but rely on people trying to reason things out on the run with emotions flying.

A good time to continue to research what we believe & stand firmly on the truth. Another good reason I appreciate this forum. Thank you William for starting & maintaining it & Gary for introducing me here.






Marilyn C
Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9847 is a reply to message #9844 ] Sun, 29 September 2013 04:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Quote:

A good time to continue to research what we believe & stand firmly on the truth. Another good reason I appreciate this forum. Thank you William for starting & maintaining it



This forum has been a blessing to me as well. A lot of the people here have a heart for the Lord and want to know all that God has for them.

There has been a lot of good things shared that people have went through with their own walk with the Lord. I have found you have to put forth an effort to follow Jesus, like one man said, salvation is free but its not cheap.

If you think about what happened before and at the cross its amazing to say the least. Someone, (the Son of God), in His early thirties allowed wicked men to crucify Him when he had the ability to stop it at anytime, Why? so each one of us could have salvation and enter the Kingdom of God.

The Bible says; strait is the gate and narrow is the way and few there be that find it. It reminds me of the pearl of great price we have to sell all to get that one pearl.

There is so much going on in this world that points to the fact that time is running out quickly. The government is behind the scenes trying to exercise more control over all our lives here. Christianity is looked down upon while sin is being glorified and accepted in society.

Their allowing the United Nations to have an influence over certain liberties that Americans take for granted.

I always thought the European common market nations would bring in this world leader while America would be slowly pushed out of the picture. They have a one world money system which we are not involved in, I speak of the "Euro".

There are many Christians here who think Americas finest hour is yet to come, but I beg to differ the church has fallen asleep here and it is trying to cater to the world.

At least that's my impression.

Gary








Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9849 is a reply to message #9847 ] Sun, 29 September 2013 05:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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There is much I will share from God`s word concerning America & Europe but I have to go at God`s pace & timing. He will unfold it a step at a time so we can digest it or rather examine, check & discern what is presented.

Wasn`t that patience God was showing you Gary, well it seems He is doing that for all of us. Even Gillyanne (in a past post I was reading)was wondering if the next generation of FA people were to carry it to it`s conclusion. I would say to you all, the best is yet to come & He has matured you all to be the mentors of this next generation that will reach out to their friends & families that we would never know.

But first we are to work through a few things that he would have us look at....in His time.


Marilyn C
Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9937 is a reply to message #9840 ] Sat, 05 October 2013 18:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Gary,

Just an update on the `Assyrian,` from Assyria - Iraq, Syria & Jordan. In Syria at the moment the Al-Qaeda linked Islamic forces are now grouped under the title of (ISIS)-
`The Islamic State of Iraq & Syria.`
Assyria is starting to form again.

Also the leader of this group Abu-Mohammad Jolani recently held secret meetings with a group of Western military officials in Jordan.They have been promised continued financial & logistical support.

Iraq, Syria & Jordan, (Assyria.) Bit by bit over the next few years we should see these to continue to come together.


Marilyn C
Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9939 is a reply to message #9937 ] Sat, 05 October 2013 19:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Wow! Marilyn, you are into this stuff, aren't you? Over on the Temple Mount thread William said, "I really should catch up on the current news having to do with echatology." Is that even possible? Who do you believe? Every few days there's threats of wars, bombings, overthrown governments...

Look at Matt.24:6 and think of I Thess.5:1-11 I don't know exactly when He's coming, but I do know that although I don't know the day or hour or year, I am aware that we're "in the season" of His return and I'm not "in the dark" about it because I'm a child of The Light and He has told me what to watch for...yes, like a thief in the night(unexpected as in the days of Noah) but not for those watching and waiting.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: The City of Babylon, Past & Present. [message #9940 is a reply to message #9939 ] Sat, 05 October 2013 20:02 Go to previous message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Thanks William & james.

So glad we are in the `light.` Just to clarify my interest in `this stuff.` (I know that that is just a saying, & no offence taken) My parents & grandparents taught a lot on eschatology so I have learnt it & watched it over the years. There are only certain threads from the word that I watch unfold & do not follow all the other stuff and fill my head & emotions with it.

To balance the unfolding of God`s word in our time I love to read & study about our Lord, His names, titles, character etc by an old author C.J. Rolls. Ever heard of him? His books are out of print but often you can get them like I did, second hand.


Marilyn C
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