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The "Old School" [message #8080] Sat, 06 August 2011 16:33 Go to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Location: Louisville, Ky area
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I posted this response on another site. I got blasted off of the page, IMO. This occurrence is no reflection of the person who created the site. As a matter of fact, he seems to be very mature and wise for his age when dealing with some of the drama. Knowing his parents, I am not surprised. He was accused of being too young to "understand." I have learned my lesson and feel that I will, again, just stick with OO.

I know many were hurt. I believe many of the stories. I am not suggesting there was not fallout. After I finish my book, and if people even read it, they will be shocked at the abuse and cruelty that was brought my way. I do not feel it is appropriate to share those things virtually right now. The entire story needs to be presented. I have only shared the tip of the iceberg. Persecution is not coming, it is here. I just happened to be one of the first in line with this kind of abuse. Also, we all know that this won't be the only kind of persecution used.

I wanted to share, in part, my response to some of the people on another site before I deleted it. Obviously, I insulted some people, so I deleted it out of respect. Maybe someone will read this and be encouraged. Also, maybe they will be able to put things into perspective from someone who was raised under the “old school” denominational system. Dr. Freeman taught in the “old school” system. I feel that much of that system influenced his opinions. When some of his opinions were presented, I just immediately went back to the Baptist church in which I was raised. Many of his opinions were the norm in the Bible belt back in the day.

To those who read this, please pray for some of the people on other sites who feel they were hurt by FA. Many are just blasting and letting off steam, so much so, that some of their posts don’t follow the subject or even make sense. As long as the statement includes bitterness, no forgiveness, sarcasm, cursing, and bashing towards FA, and those who still believe FA had any validity, they are happy. All I can say, when I read their posts of FA being all bad, is that I pray they are not in a house, like I was, believing for their life. I could have whined all I wanted, at that time in my life, but it would not have gotten me out of the situation. Whining still does not help, even today, to walk victoriously. When it all hits the fan, I can’t help but feel that most of the posts on those sites will go by the wayside. What are these "kids" who are now "adults" going to do when they are faced with death or Jesus? I don't think they will be so philosophical then. I wonder what they will decide to fall back on? Are they going to have time to go "vent" or whine on a site somewhere before they get their heads chopped off? I doubt it! I feel that many will be looking for answers and deliverance. I strongly believe that this is where OO will come into the picture for many. My response to one particular post is below:


I am sorry for what happened to some of the kids. I am sorry for anything you have suffered. Many people were absolutely disciplined from within for many things when Bro. Freeman found out about the sin. Most adults, including me, are just now finding out about these horrid stories. I am quite sure that I speak for those adults who are shocked and sickened. You may disagree with me, and that is fine. I know, that without a doubt, that if Dr. Freeman or any of the accountable 5-fold would have known this was going on, it absolutely would have been stopped and dealt with. Most simply did not know, including myself. All of this is just now coming to the surface. FA and Bro. Freeman can’t deal with this and take responsibility if they are now gone. It is only those who are left who can offer apologies and try to help those who were abused.

Sad to say, FA is not the only place where this has, or is happening. Many churches, scouts, athletic teams, etc. have these types of people. Also the nature of this crime, and it is a serious crime, is that the perpetrator is not discovered until the victim is able to voice what was done to them. Either the victims are very young when it happens and are unable to understand or tell about it, or the victim is not ready, emotionally, to share.

I certainly can understand why you see FA as only a haven for sick people to abuse those who were powerless to defend themselves. However, that is not what FA was about at all. You can vent and disagree all you want and that is OK. I don't blame you. Anger is part of the healing process of being set free so that the victims can find peace and healing.

Most of the people who were hurt will probably disagree with me, I am sure. That is OK. FA taught many good Biblical and spiritual truths that many are using in their lives today. That, really, is what Dr. Freeman wanted IMO. He began a Charismatic School, at the Barn, to teach many people who wanted to be taught something other than dead and dry teachings that most churches have to offer. He also believed that many of his teachings would be used in the end-time. I believe he did just that, but not without a price. Also, I believe the end-times are here.

I believe that Satan is trying to use these terrible occurrences to take away from the teachings that were valid and important. He gave us powerful tools to use so that people could walk in the freedom that Jesus wants for all to have and to ward off Satan. I also feel that Bro. Freeman had some opinions that he should have kept to himself and just stuck with the Bible and the Word. He was a human being. He was not perfect.

However, what he was, was a gifted teacher, evidenced by his books on theology, the prophets, etc. that are being used in The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary just twenty minutes from me in Louisville, Kentucky as we speak. At one time, I believe one was a best seller. If not that, it was very popular among seminaries and colleges teaching the valid Word of God.

Bro. Freeman was “old school” or from the old days as some would say. I am older and I am from the old days as well. When I speak of this time, it is before FA was even thought about. Bro. Freeman went to the seminary mentioned above. I was raised in a Baptist church in the same area. Many in the “old school” churches were not allowed to date Catholic boys, dance, wear miniskirts when they very popular, listen to rock and roll when it really was just that, watch TV, go to school dances, celebrate Halloween, date, sit together in church, wear make-up, cut their hair, work or play on Sunday, play with the “heathens and hoods” in the neighborhood, go to slumber parties of any kind, wear a normal bathing suit, divorce even if the husband was beating his wife to death due to bearing your cross, disciplined and “grounded harshly”, and the list goes on and on and on. Sound familiar? FA was, and is not, the only church that had rules and lived legalistically.

I know because I lived some of the above. Not all of it, due to my parents being more “liberal” than most, but you can be sure I got spanked on arrival at home due to not being still enough in church, etc. Sound familiar? When I saw my mom raise one eyebrow, I knew it was over for me. Also we went to church three times a week and to all of the activities in between. I only remember staying home twice for the Sunday night meetings. I was allowed to watch "The Wizard of Oz" and the Beatles when they were on the Ed Sullivan Show. Looking back, I should have been in church those two nights too! Sound familiar?

Adults were shunned at church if one did not line up with all of the above. It was called “returning your letter.” You were given a letter of membership. When you were kicked out, you got it back and walked down the block to the next church and set of rules. You waited for the “board of directors” to have their “committee meetings” to see if you were allowed to join. Sound familiar?

So you see, all of the “old school” people who grew up in a church were very familiar with rules. FA was no different. Was it wrong? Yes. However, it is still happening in every church today.....rules as to how to act and what to believe. Can we call these buildings with people in them, with all of these rules and regulations “cults?” Some think so! Can we call them “cults” because they also have peer pressure? Some think so as well! Peer pressure is from Satan so that one cannot figure things out for themselves and be convinced in their own hearts about what is right and wrong. I am sure there are good churches out there. I believe they are few and far between. They all have humans in them who are not perfect. Eventually something cracks due to this factor. Call FA a “cult” if that is how you feel. But, I really don’t see the difference between the two.

The issue of death is a hard one for sure. Many deaths were unnecessary, absolutely. Is healing in the Bible? Yes. Is healing in the Bible without doctors? Many are struggling to figure it out. I have my personal opinions up to this point, but I choose to keep that between me and Jesus. I choose to not throw stones wherever people are at. Jesus didn’t.

I have already shared the testimony of my life after FA. It is there for all to read so I will not be redundant. Due to many things and people who hurt me after FA, I had to learn about forgiveness. I have learned that forgiveness is not for the offender. Most of the time, the offender could care less what we do about their abuse towards us. Now if they ask for it, we are to do it simply because Jesus said to. Also, we do it because we would burn in hell if He did not forgive us for our sin. I believe that to not forgive is a trick of Satan. It is something that holds us in emotional turmoil and bondage until we decide to “let it go”, which is what forgiveness essentially is.

Also, Satan tells us that if we forgive, the offender is no longer responsible and that they are let off of the hook, so to speak. That is a lie from hell. I learned, and it was at FA, that God will deal with our offender in ways we could not imagine. In essence; don’t tie God’s hands with not forgiving something or someone. I am now seeing judgment on some of my enemies of abuse. One is now in bankruptcy for three million dollars and has lost the shirt off of his back. He can’t even look at me in the eyes and for good reason. Now could I have arranged for that person to go bankrupt? No. Only God could have allowed that in this person’s life. We will all pay for what we do wrong. There are consequences to sin. FA taught me that too. I am now believing for many, many of the souls that I have forgiven. I think something supernatural happens when you “let go of it.” I truly feel sorry for my abusers.

So, I ask those who are still hurting to keep expressing and venting all you want. I respect all of the different views being expressed, even if I don’t agree at times. But, know that there are answers, restoration, and help for broken hearts. I learned that at FA as well. My cry, for my life, is restoration with no condemnation. I hope those who were hurt and are broken hearted will eventually be able to say the same thing soon.

[Updated on: Sat, 06 August 2011 22:19]


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: The "Old School" [message #9225 is a reply to message #8080 ] Tue, 01 January 2013 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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GWB
If your still here I read this post and do not understand what you are referring to about "abuse" at FA.

Are they talking about discipline?

When I read the OT I often wondered why one king did that which was right in the sight of the Lord but then his son would take over the throne and he would do that which is wicked in the sight of the Lord. I always thought why did not the son follow his fathers example.

Looking at our situation today things have not changed at all, a man and woman will serve the Lord and the children then turn to wickedness and sin. Many times they try to find things wrong and make a mountain out of a mole hill.

As a child in a non christian home we had rules as well and I was not just allowed to do anything I wanted.

So I do not see where these kids are so abused and are trying to find excuses for their sinful lifestyle.


Re: The "Old School" [message #9227 is a reply to message #9225 ] Tue, 01 January 2013 17:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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One of the main causes for hurt was losing siblings, parents, and friends to death and watching them die. They were terrified they would be next.

I think that is pretty heavy stuff for a child to have to endure.

Adults have had to deal with the trauma then, and now, let alone the kids.

[Updated on: Tue, 01 January 2013 22:47]


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: The "Old School" [message #9228 is a reply to message #9227 ] Wed, 02 January 2013 03:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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That is surprising I cannot imagine all of the children being worried they could not go to the doctor, or had a fear they might die soon because someone else died.

Re: The "Old School" [message #9230 is a reply to message #9228 ] Wed, 02 January 2013 04:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Yes, to many, it is surprising.

There is an entire generation who just want what everyone else wants; love and understanding.

Their questions are sincere and valid. It may be shaded with anger, but they want answers.

They are awesome kids. I am proud of so many of them who continue to seek what was right and what was wrong with FA. They are candid and tough at times. I love everyone of them and God is faithful to restore and heal broken hearts.

I also have a burden for those who struggle with homosexuality. A few of the kids do, from what I gather. I have people in my life who do, as well. It is my place to love, and not to judge. No, I won't let some bully me into feeling inferior because I love Jesus. Many do. That is where I draw the line.

We all have sin and issues to deal with. Homosexuality is no different. I have a co-workers who are gay. I love them and vice versa. We all want love, understanding, and grace.

I feel it is time to stop judging and to start loving people into His mercy. It is the least we can do.

[Updated on: Wed, 02 January 2013 04:30]


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: The "Old School" [message #9234 is a reply to message #9230 ] Thu, 03 January 2013 04:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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GWB,

I was only wondering what you meant in the post about abuse going on. We had close friends that attended FA and they told us one time there was sexual abuse going on in that church. I thought maybe this is what those teenagers were worked up about on the other site.

As for your friends and coworkers it does not matter to me what others do. They have to answer to the Lord one day.

I have personal convictions about this world and fellowship with it, one scripture I think of is;

2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

There are many more I can think of, but now days people keep quoting to me that Jesus hung out with sinners. Its a favorite quote for some.

But I always think that He hung out with sinners but was not there fellowshiping but was ministering the gospel, casting demons out of them and healing them.

Yes I think love is very important but in our area there is a love gospel going around that allows any and everything. I recently had someone try to misquote I Cors. 13: to make a point but they were missing what this chapter is really saying.

I think there is a movement in this country for everyone to start loving everyone and never saying a word about sin. Anytime a christian talks of sin these days it is regarded as hate speech and how it lacks love. Its called let's not rock the boat theology.

There is a real push these days for everyone to be in agreement and lets not be so offensive but accepting.

I think the term that they use is: "Jesus was inclusive". You will probably hear this term more and more in the days ahead.

Recently I took two lesbians through deliverance. They both renounced the uncleanness and repented. I then took them through occult deliverance and prayed for the baptism. The one gal received but the other one had a struggle. I think the Lord showed me she had reservations about some things.

Anyway all of the above is just my personal conviction here.

Gary









Re: The "Old School" [message #9245 is a reply to message #9234 ] Wed, 09 January 2013 06:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Would all of the above apply if it was your child?


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: The "Old School" [message #9246 is a reply to message #9245 ] Wed, 09 January 2013 15:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Which part of the above are you talking about? You mean sin?

I don't fellowship with sinners but that does not mean I hate them or want evil to happen to them.

I just believe that: James 4:4
Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

What does the world have in common with us?

2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

When you try to expose someones sin your shining God's light on them and the sin they are practicing.

Ephesians 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

If your talking about sin and sinners then yes all of the above. I know we constantly hear people say, Jesus hung out with sinners. The problem is he was not there talking about the latest Roman chariot or some hobby everyone loves.

Jesus was with sinners telling them about sin, judgement, deliverance, and healing, etc. In other words He was ministering the whole time.





Re: The "Old School" [message #9247 is a reply to message #9246 ] Wed, 09 January 2013 22:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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I am not saying to participate in what one knows is sin. Yes, no brainer.

Would you constantly be condemning your child? How would minister to your child? Would you throw them out? You said no fellowship, whatsoever.

I believe FA separated themselves, so much so, that all we knew to do was condemn and walk away. We stayed away so that we would not be "tainted" with their sin. That is not Bible. I don't believe that is being like Jesus at all.

I do not feel that to be loving and kind to those who struggle is wrong.

You can't throw people under the bus and then walk away without giving them hope and love.

Honestly, I think even the word "love" has become a dirty word anymore with some Christians.

So, how would you deal with your child, living with you, if they said they were gay?


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: The "Old School" [message #9248 is a reply to message #9247 ] Thu, 10 January 2013 04:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Location: Indiana
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I think your imagining a scenario that does not exist. Its easy to have a pat answer if someone is not going through something.

For several years while attending the meetings we had a young man who lived with us who was gay. We shared the word on a regular basis, he came to the meetings with us as well. I do not know if anyone was told he was gay but as a male he came across as effeminate.

None of the kids would speak to him in the meetings so there was no one who was reaching out to this young man while he attended.

When my wife and I went to Russia to do short term missionary work, (two weeks), I left this young man with my house to care for and the keys to both vehicles so he would have transportation.

When we came back he moved out about a month later and we only seen him a few times after that. We always tried to treat him as we wanted to be treated.

This young man ended up getting arrested for child molesting and later came down with full blown Aids.

So I do not see where I ever did any thing here that was not Christlike, even though I do not endorse this sin or any type of sin.

As for love its become twisted in some peoples mind to accept everything that comes down the pike. This is why all the churches will one day come together as a unified world church because they have love with no doctrine.

In answer to your question, No I did not throw this young man under the bus, he made his own decision freely. He was welcome to live at my house as long as he wanted. He was always treated with kindness and was never looked down at, even though we tried to encourage him to serve the Lord.

Maybe one day before its to late He will remember all that and God will grant him grace to receive salvation.









[Updated on: Thu, 10 January 2013 04:31]

Re: The "Old School" [message #9250 is a reply to message #9248 ] Thu, 10 January 2013 09:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Gary, that is an encouraging testimony.

Alanbook wrote on Thu, 10 January 2013 04:30

Its easy to have a pat answer if someone is not going through something.



No truer words were ever spoken. The 'ole saying' about don't judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes comes to mind here.

The older I get (or maybe I should say, the longer I walk with The Lord and allow Him to transform my mind...) the more I see just how judgmental I've been in the past(and still have to repent of it from time to time), the simple, yet profound prayer Jesus told us to pray in Matt.6:9-13, constantly comes to mind when I'm tempted to come down hard on someone..."as we forgive..." I'm a man who has needed as much Mercy extended to me as anyone; I'm deeply indebted to Jesus Christ, I am blessed beyond words to be able to forgive others as I've been forgiven. That's a working of The Holy Spirit, and it's wonderful to experience.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: The "Old School" [message #9254 is a reply to message #9250 ] Fri, 11 January 2013 20:32 Go to previous message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Great answers, guys.

Thanks for your input. Smile


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
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