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Anyone see the latest from Joe Brenneman? [message #9087] Wed, 10 October 2012 10:02 Go to next message
william  is currently offline william
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I've just read Joe's blog (from the Paltalk link below) and while I have nothing to offer on the particulars of the situation Faith Assembly is now facing, I do think that it highlights something that we've been hashing out here over the last few years --our relationship with Christians who don't hold to the same beliefs we have.

An interesting conundrum indeed!

1) Is it possible to pastor a group of Christians that have different viewpoints --which may or may not be considered fundamental to your own beliefs?

2) What kind of issues would be involved in a merger of two groups (of Christians) holding radically different viewpoints? (Is it even possible)?

3) Would it be possible to set some sort of fundamental standard (read -- lower standard) that would be considered acceptable fellowship standards?

Like I said, I'm not seeking answers for that particular situation, I'm more interested in looking at the general principles involved in that kind of situation.

Are there situations that would prevent a Christian pastor from pastoring another group of Christians?

Blessings,
William


[Updated on: Wed, 17 October 2012 15:56]


I want to believe!
Re: Anyone see the latest from Joe Brenneman? [message #9088 is a reply to message #9087 ] Wed, 10 October 2012 23:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Hmmm...very interesting.

What is the difference between compromise and love? Rolling Eyes

Huge issue at FA....major.....especially when reaching the masses. Crying or Very Sad


[Updated on: Wed, 10 October 2012 23:55]


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Anyone see the latest from Joe Brenneman? [message #9090 is a reply to message #9087 ] Fri, 12 October 2012 04:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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William,

Interesting thought here. This is the situation that has had a profound effect on our whole movement.

For so many years we heard of the errors of charismatics and how dead the church world is, and most of what was said was true.

Now many in our movement find themselves without a church or fellowship. I have visited several charismatic churches only to find out I did not fit in. In one situation I thought I would just remain neutral and enjoy the fellowship, but I found out that this is impossible if your following what the Bible says. To many errors abounded, like the pastor there went to a conference to pay for a prophecy, etc.

Then I attended a Bible study non Spirit filled. Again I found there is a difference if a person does not have the BHS. I had to leave because of blatant twisting of the scriptures. They were nice people who were born again, but that is where they stopped.

We are totally isolated from others who profess to be Christians unless we just look the other way and act like everything is fine. In my heart I find it is hard to act like its great when it is not.

I do not know if after all these years if we are better off as concerning what all took place and by what we were taught.

After the Apostles died off, then the church fathers, the church world went into the dark ages.

We have to always be faced with the question, What happened?

This whole thing with what took place and what is going on now with our movement has become the Grand dilemma.

I know everyone has dealt with it to some degree, but I feel that we as a group have come to a complete stand still.

Just some thoughts here that I wonder about at times.

In Him,
Gary



Re: Anyone see the latest from Joe Brenneman? [message #9091 is a reply to message #9087 ] Fri, 12 October 2012 04:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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One more thing; I did read the article and if the people respond to the teaching of the gospel as we see it that would be great. But many in other churches have been indoctrinated with their form of the gospel.

Have we been indoctrinated with our form or view of the gospel as well?

Many God have mercy on Christians everywhere they find themselves.

In Him,
Gary
Re: Anyone see the latest from Joe Brenneman? [message #9093 is a reply to message #9090 ] Fri, 12 October 2012 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Alanbook wrote on Fri, 12 October 2012 04:00

William,

Interesting thought here. This is the situation that has had a profound effect on our whole movement.

For so many years we heard of the errors of charismatics and how dead the church world is, and most of what was said was true.

Now many in our movement find themselves without a church or fellowship. I have visited several charismatic churches only to find out I did not fit in. In one situation I thought I would just remain neutral and enjoy the fellowship, but I found out that this is impossible if your following what the Bible says. To many errors abounded, like the pastor there went to a conference to pay for a prophecy, etc.

Then I attended a Bible study non Spirit filled. Again I found there is a difference if a person does not have the BHS. I had to leave because of blatant twisting of the scriptures. They were nice people who were born again, but that is where they stopped.

We are totally isolated from others who profess to be Christians unless we just look the other way and act like everything is fine. In my heart I find it is hard to act like its great when it is not.

I do not know if after all these years if we are better off as concerning what all took place and by what we were taught.

After the Apostles died off, then the church fathers, the church world went into the dark ages.

We have to always be faced with the question, What happened?

This whole thing with what took place and what is going on now with our movement has become the Grand dilemma.

I know everyone has dealt with it to some degree, but I feel that we as a group have come to a complete stand still.

Just some thoughts here that I wonder about at times.

In Him,
Gary






You are so right!

I guess the reason I found the situation so interesting was due to how I would have reacted to that scenario in previous years.

It would be difficult enough for Methodists and Baptists to reach some kind of arrangement much more (I would think) when one party was of our persuasion <grin>.

It's good to hear from you.

Blessings,
William




I want to believe!
Re: Anyone see the latest from Joe Brenneman? [message #9094 is a reply to message #9093 ] Fri, 12 October 2012 14:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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"Picky, critical, and negative"...that seems to be my testimony among the few Christians I've met where I live. One wonderful Christian lady who is my age, has the Baptism, and even knows a lot of the songs 'we' sang back in the 80's(and she has been a blessing to me in having someone to share and talk about Jesus, we've prayed in The Spirit together and sang several of the songs from Psalms...married with a godly husband, may I add.) Yet as she shared where she went to church I asked her about their worship and the gifts. It was the local mega Baptist church that she attends. As I questioned how she could reconcile the way she had experienced in the past(Holy Spirit moving in meetings and gifts flowing) and going to a SBC. She seemed suprised and said she didn't even know it was Baptist. I asked what about this doctrine and that doctrine and the denial of The Baptism as evidenced with speaking in tongues and the gifts in the Body...She explained, "I don't get into all that stuff, I go to worship God." I write this not to be critical of my Christian friend, but to show the state of so many today, compromising in order to find fellowship. And just to make it clear, this church is not your ordinary SBC, they are extremely active in missions, both locally and in foreign countries...and they have a pastor who is a godly young man(David Platt, whom I have written about on here before...yet they deny the power and presence of The Holy Spirit is for today, of course they believe they already have The Holy Spirit recieved at baptism/salvation.)

Sometimes I wonder too, Gary. But in being honest with myself(something I've had trouble doing in the past) it always comes back to me. I am convienced without any doubts that God's Word is true and that the lack lies within me, even when I have believed I was 100% sold out to God I've found out later that there were cracks in my foundation. I'm in the process of crying out unto The Lord JESUS to grant me mercy and expose what's lacking now so I won't be one of those who go through life deceived into thinking 'I'm this or that" and hear Him say, "I never knew you."

I have another christian buddy who responded to me after I lovingly shared with him that a man born again would bring forth fruit of repentance, that Jesus living in us changes us...that He, Jesus said that there are demands upon one who wants to follow Him, to be His disciple. He said something that grieved my heart, his reply was that if he went along with what I was saying then he had just thrown away 18 years. I said I'd rather admit I was wrong now than find out then that the sinner's prayer without a repentant life and a new man wasn't salvation and spend eternity in Hell. We haven't talked much since then...

I do pray for Joe in this situation and that God's will be done regarding the two assemblies converging


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Anyone see the latest from Joe Brenneman? [message #9095 is a reply to message #9094 ] Fri, 12 October 2012 16:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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I read that the other day and kind of chuckled. I can't see it working. Any minister worth his salt is going to start teaching what he believes. Joe is no different. Especially in the faith message where truth is emphasized. I think it is wishful thinking on the part of the church. Here is a readymade pastor no muss no fuss no hassle. Pastors aren't that easy to come by I guess.
Re: Anyone see the latest from Joe Brenneman? [message #9098 is a reply to message #9095 ] Fri, 12 October 2012 19:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JWBTI  is currently offline JWBTI
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If God leads Joe to take the position of there pastor, then God may have some people ready to hear the truth. It will be interesting to see how many come back to hear his second sermon. Most in the church today just want to be entertained and hear a candy coated sermon so they can feel good about themselves. Personally, I have never heard Brother Joe candy coat anything !

Some times God will open a door for us in the most unlikely of places. It’s up to us
to make the most of that open door. Stephen only got to preached one sermon, it was
A good one too ! We can set around wondering what Joe is going to do, but what
are we doing with the talents and the Gifts and the Word that God has given us ?

God has given us a Living Word to preach to a dying church, if we don’t preach it,

Who will ?

Blessings in Jesus Name !

Ron


Ron
Re: Anyone see the latest from Joe Brenneman? [message #9099 is a reply to message #9094 ] Fri, 12 October 2012 22:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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But in being honest with myself(something I've had trouble doing in the past) it always comes back to me. I am convienced without any doubts that God's Word is true and that the lack lies within me, even when I have believed I was 100% sold out to God I've found out later that there were cracks in my foundation.

James,

So true here. I am presently rereading the NT. I find as I read that Jesus constantly addressed faith in God and I see in the NT as well that we have been redeemed from the curse of the law. Also I am amazed how many scriptures throughout the NT talk about hearing they hear but do not hear and seeing they see but do not see. Alluded too even in the Epistles.

I am concluding as you have that it is with us as individuals that we have the need of constant improvement in our personal lives.

The Word that was taught was the truth. But what is interesting is that every christian I run into feels the same way about how they were taught the Bible. That is they believe they were given the truth as well, even though its a bit watered down to me.

I agree with others here it seems like a strange mixture of two different camps but as stated if its of the Lord He can open the eyes of people and cause a renewal.

The thing is we cannot just make it happen.

I spent time in that Bible study praying and fasting for the group of adults, there was maybe twenty or twenty five who attended. They were teaching on the book of Acts and the study was open to comments and discussion. When God opened a door to share about the BHS in Acts 19:, they explained it away. They thought they received it at the new birth and they said; Paul was talking to Johns disciples and not followers of Jesus.

I knew I was spinning my wheels so to speak when they twisted the whole chapter to mean something else.

But on the other hand, the minister and his wife told us of their experience with charismatics. His father-in-law had the Baptism and when they came around them they were always talking about casting demons out of themselves and they would rake them over the coals if they made a negative confession. I don't know what group they were part of but it might of been Hagin and Copelands ministries that they followed from what this brother shared.

So I thought they did not have the best witness of what the experience was about and they had a negative experience from the relatives. He did share with me in private that we were on the same page concerning the Baptism, "whatever that meant", I don't know.

After I left the meeting it completely dissolved about a month later for no apparent reason. I thought maybe the Lord had me there to plant some seeds if nothing else.

From that I learned it is not easy to share the Bible when someone has been indoctrinated with how they were taught. Whether Baptist, Methodists, or charismatics they generally stay with how they were taught the Bible as being the whole truth.

Hopefully Joe Brenneman will have better success.

Gary








Re: Anyone see the latest from Joe Brenneman? [message #9100 is a reply to message #9087 ] Fri, 12 October 2012 23:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Well, we certainly have to allow the Lord to lead us and ultimately the outcome is in His hands.

I've mentioned the Baptist group that has allowed me to teach... for about 4 years now.

Interestingly enough Wednesday before last we were in 1 Cor 14. The last few weeks have been about tongues and as I was finishing up in chapter 14. I had made some sort of statement about the gift of tongues being one that could be used any time...'on demand' if you will!

I had shared about being in one of their prayer sessions a couple of years ago and someone had asked for prayer concerning a brother that no longer attended their assembly. Anyway, I shared that on that occasion, when we all started praying, I automatically started to pray in tongues -- out loud! I caught myself pretty quickly, realizing where I was, and begin to pray silently. I wasn't sure if anyone had heard as no one ever mentioned it.

Since it was an appropriate example in the context of 1Cor 14, I related the story to them in order to show that praying in tongues was almost as natural as breathing.

This piqued the pastor's curiosity and he actually asked me to demonstrate! I obliged them all (without an interpreter present... <grin>) and told them that I'd be back next week and if anyone didn't show up, I'd take it personally <grin> (I felt like a real preacher --got to keep them coming -- no matter what method is used!!!<grin>).

I say all of that to maybe help us to keep in mind that our attitude in these types of situations can be just as (or maybe more...) important as the attitude of the hearers. If we go into a situation thinking that there is no chance that they will actually receive anything we have to say then this attitude can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

People everywhere are pretty perceptive... oftentimes I have greatly underestimated folks.

Nobody likes to be patronized. A condescending attitude is quickly perceived and it will take a miracle to be effective under those circumstances.

The Bible is clear: some will hear and believe the truth, others will not. Rejection should never cause us to become jaded about the whole world (... or even the church-world), if it does, it damages, not only our own effectiveness, but it hurts the kingdom of God.

Two cents is all I've got tonight -- I'm spent!

Blessings,
William

[Updated on: Wed, 17 October 2012 15:54]


I want to believe!
Re: Anyone see the latest from Joe Brenneman? [message #9101 is a reply to message #9100 ] Sat, 13 October 2012 05:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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William,

Greetings, I am glad you mentioned this as I have been thinking the last several weeks on a number of scriptures that pentecostals and charismatics quote.

The one scripture mentions if they do not have the Spirit of God they are none of His, the other scriptures in Mark mention those who believe will speak with new tongues, he that believes and is baptized will be saved he that does not believe will be condemned.

I have thought of all the Christians that many say this refers to who are born again, good moral people, who love the Lord but have not the BHS.

It is hard for me to believe these people will not make it into heaven because of these and other scriptures referred to by charismatics.

Many times I have noticed some of these Christians in some groups in the church system have better morals then a lot of those who call themselves Charismatics. Better fruit as well. I do realize there are many who are ho-hum about the Bible as well out there.

Maybe we will never fully understand all of the passages in what they are completely referring to. But I have to believe that those who refer to these passages are misunderstanding and not considering the whole gospel in making these decisions. Saying that those in the system will not make it in because they reject the experience of the BHS.

Would God cast men in hell who have rejected this experience?

When I first read your article it made me think about this whole subject.

I know Paul went into the synagogues first till he realized many rejected his message. I don't think Paul had an attitude that they were automatically going to reject what he was going to preach to them. It's that many do not want to hear the full gospel. Finally he said he was only going to the gentiles to preach the gospel.

In today's world men have been indoctrinated with all manner of teaching. But again how narrow is narrow? Are we the ones who make it narrower for everybody without our camp?

In Him,
Gary










Re: Anyone see the latest from Joe Brenneman? [message #9102 is a reply to message #9098 ] Sat, 13 October 2012 15:50 Go to previous message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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JWBTI wrote on Fri, 12 October 2012 20:41

If God leads Joe to take the position of there pastor, then God may have some people ready to hear the truth. It will be interesting to see how many come back to hear his second sermon. Most in the church today just want to be entertained and hear a candy coated sermon so they can feel good about themselves. Personally, I have never heard Brother Joe candy coat anything !

Some times God will open a door for us in the most unlikely of places. It’s up to us
to make the most of that open door. Stephen only got to preached one sermon, it was
A good one too ! We can set around wondering what Joe is going to do, but what
are we doing with the talents and the Gifts and the Word that God has given us ?

God has given us a Living Word to preach to a dying church, if we don’t preach it,

Who will ?

Blessings in Jesus Name !

Ron


Amen!


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
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