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Theology for UFO type stuff [message #8083] Sun, 07 August 2011 23:48 Go to next message
wishing34  is currently offline wishing34
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Registered: March 2009
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Greetings,

There is a lot of wild opinion out there about
UFO's and related concepts and theories.

My question is what is the proper theology regarding
alleged extra-terrestrial things.

If such things are ever verified will it over throw
the faith of some?

============================

As I remember it back in the day we said there was
no such thing as intelligent life other than our
current civilization (that has only been to the moon)
and that is approx 6000 years old
and any apparent evidence to the contrary was demonic
manifestations to deceive the scientists.

=============================

A couple examples

Here are a couple of paintings made in the middle ages
wherein the artists painted UFO's similar to the modern
concepts of UFO's

on this web page
http://www.crystalinks.com/ufohistory.html


is some religious art from 1350 AD
this art has two UFOs in it

the painting:
http://www.crystalinks.com/crucifixion1350.jpg

close up of one UFO:
http://www.crystalinks.com/ufochase2.jpg

close up of the other UFO
http://www.crystalinks.com/ufocase1350.jpg

-----------

on the same web page is the following painting from the 1300's AD
It contains a glowing "ship" flying in the sky.
http://www.crystalinks.com/maryufoclose.jpg

----------


So we would have said that whatever the artists saw
was a demonic manifestation of material flying in the sky
or else it was a demonic false dream or vision.

-----------


My questions are

  • Do I remember correctly our theology from 30 years ago?
  • Is there any other theology available to us that remains true to the Bible?
  • If modern science ever reveals to us ruins or artifacts on planets or asteroids out in space are we going to say it is demons falsifying the camera pictures?
  • If modern science reveals evidence of other civilizations are we ready to accept this info without it shaking our faith?





Re: Theology for UFO type stuff [message #8084 is a reply to message #8083 ] Mon, 08 August 2011 00:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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The issue was occult deliverance. The only people who saw UFOs needed some kind of deliverance. That was HEFs opinion. In light of all his experience in deliverance I'm inclined to take his word for it.

I used to know someone who believed they were angels. I don't agree with him

if modern science reveals evidence of other civilizations are we ready to accept this info without it shaking our faith?

Well it wouldn't shake my faith because any other civilization out there in the universe would still be in Gods universe. Subject to everything we are. Righteousness & sin etc. Either in the devils kingdom or ours. Ultimately ruled by Jesus. With the same awareness of spiritual things we have.

Having said all that I don't believe they exist anywhere we are going to see them.

Another related point is that modern science is not the be all end all it is made out to be. It is posited as that but the reality is they really don't know a whole lot. We know a whole lot more than we used to but that isn't saying much. I just finished reading a book on science and it astounding how much they don't know about our world our origins etc. And many scientists don't agree on basic issues either. I don't mean just on evolution either. Everything!

Get this book from the library it is excellent.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_48?url=search-alias %3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=bill+bryson+a+short+history +of+nearly+everything&sprefix=bill+bryson+a+short+histor y+of+nearly+everything

The bottom line is it simply doesn't matter. Whether they are there or not is a non issue. If they are there or there artifacts are then they are still within the realm of Gods knowledge and power. They were created by him and are still under his control. They don't exist as stand alone civilizations outside Gods kingdom.

Whatever is troubling you on the issue just forget it. Its a non issue.

[Updated on: Mon, 08 August 2011 07:28]

Re: Theology for UFO type stuff [message #8085 is a reply to message #8083 ] Mon, 08 August 2011 08:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
Messages: 1932
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
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wishing34 wrote on Sun, 07 August 2011 23:48

Greetings,

There is a lot of wild opinion out there about
UFO's and related concepts and theories.


Hey jman, I agree, there's a 'lot' of wild opinions out there about most everything.


My question is what is the proper theology regarding
alleged extra-terrestrial things.


Trust in The Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths." Proverbs 3:5-6



If such things are ever verified will it over throw
the faith of some?


Of course it will, I've witnessed a man turn from the faith when he didn't get a new 'black' 1984 Chevy truck that he'd 'claimed by faith'. People turn from the faith every day for lot less than 'flying saucers'.




[*] If modern science ever reveals to us ruins or artifacts on planets or asteroids
out in space are we going to say it is demons falsifying the camera pictures?


Nah, I'm going to blame the Illuminati.




[*] If modern science reveals evidence of other civilizations are we ready to
accept this info without it shaking our faith?


Kinda like modern sciences' 'proof' that the flood didn't cover the earth, or that the earth is a gazillion years old, or that we evolved from apes? No, I am not nor will I be, ready to accept modern sciences' revelation of evidence of extraterrestrials. If that paints me as being foolish or unwise by their standards, then count me as such.


Why ask, you been seeing them too? Smile





"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Theology for UFO type stuff [message #8086 is a reply to message #8085 ] Mon, 08 August 2011 10:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
Messages: 441
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada
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"Why ask, you been seeing them too?" Razz

Ah another Jamesism. I love it.


"Trust in The Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding."

Thats a good vs James. I was trying to think of a verse that applied.

The fact that you know the Lord is enough. He is big enough to trust.
Whatever is troubling you on the issue just forget it. Its a non issue.

[Updated on: Mon, 08 August 2011 10:23]

Re: Theology for UFO type stuff [message #8087 is a reply to message #8086 ] Mon, 08 August 2011 12:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Very good questions and very good answers above.

I have only known two people who claimed they saw flying saucers. One saucer was flying and the other one supposedly landed and they watched the entire crew, etc.

#1. Both of these people are very, very heavily into the occult.
#2. They, themselves, are "flying" all of the time anyway, if you know what I mean.

I had to hammer this one out myself at one time. If I truely believe that God created the universe, and I do, than He created everything in it.

At one time, I thought that if there was any possibility of UFOs, that He created them too. I beleived that He was totally incontrol anyway, so why worry? I was not very grounded in the Word when I beleived this.

I now know that they are demonic entities. I have had to deal with some supernatural encounters, not fun by the way, and I know the supernatural is very real. I would not recommend delving into supernatural explanations, unless it the Word. This would be very, very dangerous.

I beleive we are in the end-time. The media, in all forms, is using the occult, in many forms, for entertainment, news articles, debates, etc. There seems to be a new TV show weekly involving the occult. Some believe that one of the raptures will be explained away by UFOs snatching people and that they will "believe the lie" that is talked about in Revelation.

In any case, I believe that if there are other planets with inhabitants, God is silent or chose not to mention it. Some feel that Ezekiel talks about UFO's, when really it is talking about heavenly entities.

Believing God, and the Word, without evidence to the eye or science (fact), is very hard for many people. However, this is the essence of faith; Hebrews 11:1.

I have other family members who have very high IQ's. Now, I am not the sharpest blade in the drawer, but I know I am not the dullest either. When they begin to try and talk like that Stephen Hawkings dude, I shake my head. Invarible, they sit at the next family gathering and relay that something else was discovered and everything has now changed, theory wise.

The Word never changes and the Word is true. I really feel sorry for people who think they are smarter than God and choose to simply not to believe the Bible. Most talk out of both sides of their mouth or in circles when addressing the creation, the universe, and UFO's IMO. Knowing how big God is, it really makes them look stupid. IMHO

[Updated on: Mon, 08 August 2011 12:36]


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Theology for UFO type stuff [message #8088 is a reply to message #8083 ] Mon, 08 August 2011 13:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wishing34  is currently offline wishing34
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No I haven't seen anything.

On the web there are a lot of alleged photos
of ancient intelligently designed things out in space -
at this time the photos are not credible due to possible
photoshop trickery.

That is why I used examples above from the 1300's
when mankind had no flying machines and no photoshop.

====================================================

I think it wise that we anticipate some things
and prepare our answers/theology

Possible in the future:

  • photos demonstrating ancient/current civilizations from space
  • A "new" religion (world view) claiming that the earth is one of a family of space civilizations
  • Bible/Christianity criticized as relating to this planet only , therefore not complete enough to be from the God of everything
  • Ancient creation "proofs" similar to the evolution "old earth" arguments - challenging Biblical accuracy w/r age of creation


If we have already thought/studied this through then, if it
happens, it will not throw anyone for a loop



=========================================



Our theology that it all is demonic manifestations will be very hard to hold onto.



Eventually we could be in the role of the medieval church standing
against Galileo w/r does the earth move or not.

Church verses undeniable facts.







Re: Theology for UFO type stuff [message #8089 is a reply to message #8088 ] Mon, 08 August 2011 14:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Location: Birmingham, AL
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wishing34 wrote on Mon, 08 August 2011 13:56



If we have already thought/studied this through then, if it
happens, it will not throw anyone for a loop




Everyone has different interests in life, I've always enjoyed the outdoors and sports, I haven't watched the Star Wars, Star Trek, or all the alien centered movies. I didn't get into comics as a kid and have never really cared for stories/movies about make believe things such as Superman and the like.(Tarzan, being an exception<grin>) So I've never spent much time pondering about 'what-if'; though I do have a vivid imagination, I was more likely to daydream about hitting a grandslam in the world series or scoring a winning basket from 30 feet as the horn sounded than to imagine I could leap over tall buildings and deflect bullets off my chest.

Seriously, I don't see scripture or a Biblical example that would point me to preparing for the possibility of someone discovering that there is life existing in other galaxy's. I DO however find scripture that instructs me to...

"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt.6:34

"And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what things ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:

For The Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
" Luke 12:11-12



"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Theology for UFO type stuff [message #8090 is a reply to message #8089 ] Mon, 08 August 2011 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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"If we have already thought/studied this through then, if it
happens, it will not throw anyone for a loop"

I do agree. I think it is good to question and know what you firmly believe and why.


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Theology for UFO type stuff [message #8091 is a reply to message #8083 ] Mon, 08 August 2011 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wishing34  is currently offline wishing34
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I have no coherent theology but what might apply:


John 10:15-16

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they
shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


====================================

I always thought the "other sheep" were the Gentiles.

====================================

but consider:

I lay down My life for these sheep (mankind)

I have other sheep (than those I just mentioned) ?? on other planets?????



Sounds far fetched but I guarantee that if ever there would be found other
civilizations (who are not " in Adam " from this planet Earth) that this verse will
be used to refer to the sheep/believers from the other planet



Re: Theology for UFO type stuff [message #8099 is a reply to message #8083 ] Wed, 10 August 2011 02:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wishing34  is currently offline wishing34
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In another post the following link was given

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i4/et.asp

at that link under the paragraph

" 2. The Bible "

the article gives some powerful reasons why
a believer's faith will be challenged if
other civilizations are ever discovered.



These reasons fall under what I referred to above as :

" Bible/Christianity criticized as relating to this planet only , therefore not complete enough to be from the God of everything "

-----------------------------------------

Anyone want to be so bold as to say there can
be no other civilizations Biblically possible
and therefore if they are ever discovered
we have an unsolvable theological dilemma ????


If instead it is Biblically possible for there to
exist other civilizations then I say it is
worthwhile to anticipate their discovery and
know our theology ahead of time as our culture
ventures out into space.

There are only two choices - it is Biblically
possible or it is not.







Re: Theology for UFO type stuff [message #8100 is a reply to message #8099 ] Wed, 10 August 2011 04:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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"Anyone want to be so bold as to say there can
be no other civilizations Biblically possible
and therefore if they are ever discovered
we have an unsolvable theological dilemma ????"


To me, when you are dealing with other civilizations not mentioned in the Bible, you are dealing with something in the physical realm.

I will not be that bold, because the Bible is silent about what might be on stars. What I will say is that it says, "He hung the stars." Job 9:9 So, He did make the stars themselves. Could something actually be on those stars? Could be. I don't have a problem with it because the Word says He made the universe. Therefore, life on other planets would be all inclusive within the universe and explained in the Word, if you look at it this way.

I believe the real dilemma is trying to explain away the spiritual realm. The Word says that God is spirit, as well as Satan. Do I have proof, personally, that the spirit realm exists? With some of the things I have experienced, without a shadow of a doubt. I have seen things to prove it. IMO

Also, many people manipulate the spiritual realm for evil purposes. I know that many of these evil people believe in the spiritual realm. Many call it "the force." That is why many who are into the occult are Star Trek junkies, etc.

So, in conclusion, if something physical is discovered on a star that is physical.....whatever. I would then challenge those people to explain away the spiritual realm. And that, they certainly cannot do according to many saved, and unsaved, people alike.

I hope that made sense. Smile


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Theology for UFO type stuff [message #8101 is a reply to message #8100 ] Wed, 10 August 2011 08:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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I just realized i put this information on the wrong thread.

I ran across this by accident tonight. I thought it was quite good.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i4/et.asp
Re: Theology for UFO type stuff [message #8102 is a reply to message #8099 ] Wed, 10 August 2011 12:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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wishing34 wrote on Wed, 10 August 2011 02:12



If instead it is Biblically possible for there to
exist other civilizations then I say it is
worthwhile to anticipate their discovery and
know our theology ahead of time as our culture
ventures out into space.




Maybe I've missed something here but I don't see 'our culture' venturing anywhere except downward. I believe there's major global financial/economic problems, civil unrest in many countries, America is in worse trouble than even we fully realize. The socially accepted 'church' is in deception/sin/delusion without any lasting solutions. I think with the state of the national debt in America and our many other financial/economic/moral/spiritual problems, government funding for space exploration just might need to be moved off the 'priority list'.

Maybe I'm wearing rose colored contacts, but I just don't see the need for developing a 'theology' for UFO type stuff. Not to sound super spiritual, but I really think we should be investing in the oil and lighting industry...Being sure we have quality Lamps and sufficient Oil and are focused on the coming return of our LORD and Saviour Jesus Christ...Looking up 'for Him', not aliens or UFO's.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Theology for UFO type stuff [message #8103 is a reply to message #8083 ] Wed, 10 August 2011 15:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wishing34  is currently offline wishing34
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James . . .

The perspective is that a theology w/r other civilizations
might well sustain many weak brethren if/when "other
civilizations" becomes mainstream, accepted fact.

Same as any Biblical study topic sustains us if/when something
arises to challenge what we believe.







Re: Theology for UFO type stuff [message #8104 is a reply to message #8103 ] Thu, 11 August 2011 03:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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In thinking about all of this, there really is a huge interest in aliens in the movies, media, etc. The theme always entails violence, occult, etc. IMO

This may sound out there, excuse that pun too, Laughing but I have always wondered if this was how the raptures would be explained away. With all of this hype about the topic, Satan is setting up the world for something about all of this.

I have always wondered if the scriptures, talking about believing the "lie" may be used to explain away many things that will happen in Revelation.


Strong delusion (ἐνέργειαν πλάνης)

Rev., literally and correctly, a working of error. See on working 2 Thessalonians 2:9. The phrase is unique in N.T. It means an active power of misleading. For πλάνη error which shows itself in action, see on 1 Thessalonians 2:3.

A lie (τῷ ψεύδει)

Properly, the lie. The article gives the generic sense, falsehood in all its forms. Comp. John 8:44; Romans 1:25; Ephesians 4:25. Comp. the contrast of truth and unrighteousness in 2 Thessalonians 2:12. All wrongdoing has an element of falsity.


The "lie" is talked about in Revelation a few times as well.

Do all of these scriptures refer to error? How will people explain away these raptures, etc.? Good questions to me.

If anything, the world is, more and more, being set up for confusion and disbelief in the Bible.

Because the world is going to hell in a handbag, and with all of the interests in the occult and aliens, I believe it is a valid point of interest.


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Theology for UFO type stuff [message #8106 is a reply to message #8104 ] Fri, 12 August 2011 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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On Discover, Sunday @ 8:00, is a show called Aliens Attack Earth. Are We Ready? Shocked Laughing

Again, there just has to be a reason there is such interest and hype about this subject. JMO Rolling Eyes

(Twilight Zone music)....lol


[Updated on: Fri, 12 August 2011 16:35]


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Theology for UFO type stuff [message #8107 is a reply to message #8106 ] Sat, 13 August 2011 10:57 Go to previous message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Registered: March 2008
Location: Louisville, Ky area
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@ James,

What you said about having oil in our lamps is very good too and the most important thing.

If anything, the interest in UFO's fulfills the prophecy concerning the occult being so prevalent in the last days. Smile


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
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