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Consider this... [message #162] Tue, 07 March 2006 07:14 Go to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Ok, here's the deal (to use a vernacular phrase).

Faith Assembly had 2 pastors (and then 3 pastors) all at one time. Brother Freeman was the "head" pastor no one will deny. Stan Hill (and later along with Jack Farrell) were the associate/assistant (whatever you want to call them) pastors of Faith Assembly. All of these men served by divine appointment and each had unique qualities and abilities that presumably complimented each other in the whole scheme of things that was Faith Assembly.

Who can deny that Stan Hill (and later Steve-to keep the analogy going) represented the Father's heart with respect to His Love, His Mercy, His Grace, His Lovingkindness--in short the Nourisher aspects of God that we sometimes call the feminine side of God--I say that with trepidation in the culture we live in, but hopefully you will understand my meaning. This is the side of God that Jesus reflected when He said in Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!

Brother Freeman represented the Father's heart in the other aspects of His nature--the Mat 17:17 aspect-- Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.

The part that grabs you by the shirt and says "suck it up and be a man!"

We all gravitated to that aspect perhaps because it was the part that was so neglected in Christian circles--it was refreshing. It was the part that said -- No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.(Remember the Absolutes of Discipleship?) Or to keep it simple and not mix up the Old Testament God/New Testament God metaphors--This is the aspect that told Moses to move aside so He could destroy His children!

Deut 9:13f Furthermore the LORD spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it [is] a stiffnecked people: Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they.

As I said, we liked this because of all the cookie-cutter, kool-aid drinking,(real men drink beer<grin>) nambie-pambies, denominational, ecumenical, lovey-dovey, rot that categorized Christianity.

Now I know that no analogy holds true in all of its facets, so don't go overboard and make too much of what I'm trying to get across here--I know Brother Freeman had the other aspects in his ministry, but let us face it, He was great in the Old Testament aspects of God's nature <grin>.

Well, guess what? God wanted both aspects of His nature reflected in His children. After brother Freeman passed away, Stan Hill (later Steve) and Bill Garner (who still represents to my mind one who merged these two aspects beautifully) begin to flourish in the aspects of God's nature that had been somewhat veiled to that point. There was a brokenness (in a good sense) that begin to sweep over Faith Assembly and it seemed as though we were on the verge of realizing our lack. But alas, the old guard couldn't stand it (where are they now?) and quenched what I believe was the work of God.

Ok, I'm through rambling... I probably sound a bit crazed. My excuse--sleep deprivation.

Thoughts?

William


I want to believe!
Re: Consider this... [message #164 is a reply to message #162 ] Fri, 10 March 2006 12:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Wow... as usual you've given us a double sized portion to chew on. I'm printing it out now... I hope to have some time this weekend to digest it all!

Have a great Friday!

ttyl,
William


I want to believe!
Re: Consider this... [message #165 is a reply to message #164 ] Fri, 10 March 2006 19:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous Please
Why is it when we are looking back on our experience with FA we are so petulant to say anything negative about Brother Freeman?

We’ll you know what, I’m tired of this. He’s responsible just like the rest of the ministers in that assembly. Just like us. Just like I’m responsible for anyone and everyone I’ve ever witnessed to or ministered to.

I remember in my past some of the people I witnessed to or spoke with. Some of these folks were influenced by me, some may have not been.

Am I responsible for the ones that where influenced by me? I think so.

My brothers, I’ve prayed this once, but I’ve prayed this before…. and I’m not proud of it. You know what that prayer is? It is to ask my Lord for forgiveness for leading anyone astray or leading them into false ways.

Now what are those false ways? Well I’m still hammering that out. In the meantime I remember that admonition from Dr. Freeman. Some of you might remember what that admonition was. It was, ‘not many of you desire to be teachers, because you will have the greater judgment’. You guys remember that? I sure do.

We’re all responsible for what we do, what we don’t do, and what we fail to do.

Sorry if this has any of you angry or upset. I just had to get this off my chest.

I hope this is understandable. It's been a long day and a bad one at that. Sometimes I get a little sideways when things go wrong. No offence meant to anyone.

Re: Consider this... [message #166 is a reply to message #165 ] Fri, 10 March 2006 19:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Well, you are right about us all being responsible for the things we do, say, and teach... and I'm glad I don't have to answer for anyone but myself. Brother Freeman will have to give an accounting for every word, just as we will, and because he was the pastor he will be held to a higher standard. I give him a pass only in the sense that I give you (and others) a pass. I can't walk in your shoes.

I do choose to focus on the positive aspects of his ministry (Bible teaching) because of its affect on my life. I haven't, however, neglected the negative, I've faced it, but because we still live and move and have our being in Him (Jesus), our lives should reflect those positive things.

Bitterness abounds concerning FA (and brother Freeman) --just google around and it is everywhere, in fact, that was one of the reasons I created this board... not to stick our heads in the sand and ignore the negative, but so there would be an outlet that would include the positive aspects of FA.

It would surprise me if you came out of the experience without at least some good...

Quote:

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.


And I know that there are those who cringe when we quote the Word but because the teaching of the Word was so prominent it boils up to the surface in every situation. (One of those positive aspects of brother Freeman's ministry.)

Quote:

My brothers, I’ve prayed this once, but I’ve prayed this before…. and I’m not proud of it. You know what that prayer is? It is to ask my Lord for forgiveness for leading anyone astray or leading them into false ways.


As far as praying for forgiveness... I trust that we all have prayed for forgiveness and repented for being the pharisees that we became.

Quote:

Sorry if this has any of you angry or upset. I just had to get this off my chest.


Well, there aren't many of us yet (about as many as followed Jesus--sorry to quote brother Freeman again!<grin>) but I'm certainly not angry or upset! By all means-get it off of your chest!

Blessings,

William


I want to believe!
Re: Consider this... [message #167 is a reply to message #166 ] Fri, 10 March 2006 21:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous Please
William,

Thanks for your kind words. However unlike you I do not feel I have only to answer for myself. I feel I have to answer for the others I have tried to guide towards this teaching, or belief. And there have been many. I am responsible either way. I will answer for them all. In the end I will answer for each and every one of them I dealt with.

I was young and very impertinent and I thought I knew it all. What I didn’t know was that I didn’t know anything and I was just a child in Christ. God forgive me.

I know Hombre will be displeased with me, and it hurts me to say this, I do so respect him so. We just don’t see eye to eye in this respect.
Re: Consider this... [message #168 is a reply to message #167 ] Fri, 10 March 2006 22:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Are you sure this guilt you are carrying around is justified? I know that I'd be thanking you right now if you had anything to do with "guiding" me to the biblical teaching we received.

You know that condemnation isn't from the Holy Spirit. You said in your post that you've prayed for forgiveness for leading anyone astray...

Quote:

My brothers, I’ve prayed this once, but I’ve prayed this before…. and I’m not proud of it. You know what that prayer is? It is to ask my Lord for forgiveness for leading anyone astray or leading them into false ways.

Now what are those false ways? Well I’m still hammering that out.


Well, what "false ways" are you referring?

The reason I ask, is because I know how Satan works... he will seek to infuse you with guilt over some vague sin, never being specific, because if he were to be specific about the sin, you would no doubt repent and let the Lord take that sin away. He likes to keep it general so that he can continue to heap condemnation on you... which effectively limits you from moving on into what God wants for your life.

Ok, lets say you *intentionally* led someone down a "way" that you *knew* was going to end up killing them. After you *knowingly* had them killed, do you think that God's will for your life is over?

Do you not believe that in praying for forgiveness you WILL be forgiven??

You know I'm setting you up as Nathan set David up.

David *KNOWINGLY* had someone murdered after he had committed his "other" sin with the man's wife. He did this with the full intention of doing it... and yet David was forgiven for both of the sins he committed (at a mature age and with open eyes). Ps 51 is the prayer he prayed.

If David (a man after God's own heart, a type of Christ) who intentionally and with full knowledge (am I being redundant for a reason?) committed adultery and killed a man to cover it all up was forgiven and moved on in his relationship with God--does Rueben have a chance to be rid of the guilt for a "sin" of "possibly" leading someone astray into what could "possibly" be a "false way" that you are still haven't decided specifically what was false? (You said you were still "hammering them out".)

Even if you weren't "young and very impertinent" and *knew fully* what you were doing the answer is still -- a resounding YES!

I trust that tomorrow will be a better day for you, brother!

William


I want to believe!
Re: Consider this... [message #169 is a reply to message #168 ] Sat, 11 March 2006 08:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous Please
I see I made too much of an emphasis on sin and condemnation to give folks an impression that I don’t think I’m forgiven. I am, I know that.

What I meant for ‘answering for’ is the judgment we’ll all face someday. Dr. Freeman spoke about it often. It’s where our ‘works’ will be tested in the fire ‘as it were’. As believers we still will be judged. Not the great white throne judgment with the unbelievers, no. But our works will be judged. DF spoke about Pastors and Teachers having the greater responsibility because they were leading others and to not to desire these positions because these leaders would have ‘the greater’ judgment. He also mentioned that we as believers by our witness and efforts to influence others to Christ would have our works judged. It’s not a judgment of condemnation but one of ‘how did you serve me’? ‘How did you spend your time on earth glorifying me?’ I’m sure everyone here gets the difference.

Sometimes when I think about it, I still feel bad for some of the things I did or didn’t do. I hope that never changes because if it does it means my conscience is seared and something is seriously wrong.

Some people’s lives got pretty starched up during those early FA times. I know I mentioned this before but I had a lengthy phone conversation with an old friend who went to FA and our satellite church in Ohio. He lost a newborn baby girl. To this day it still hurts him. He’s forgiven sure but he still hurts. He and his wife never had a single brother or sister call on them during this terrible time. Now he feels guilt because he knows his daughter would be alive today if would have taken her for medical help. He’s forgiven sure, but he’ll always carry some of that regret and hurt inside. It’s called the law of sowing and reaping.

I’m sure King David had years of feeling bad after his sin with Bathsheba. Getting forgiven doesn’t make the bad feelings or the things you did wrong go away. You can’t escape sowing and reaping. We won’t escape answering for our lives either.
Re: Consider this... [message #170 is a reply to message #169 ] Sat, 11 March 2006 08:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Quote:

Sometimes when I think about it, I still feel bad for some of the things I did or didn’t do. I hope that never changes because if it does it means my conscience is seared and something is seriously wrong.


Well, it is one thing to think back and feel bad for the past but it is quite another thing to dwell so much (not that you do) on the past that our present and future is also fruitless. None of us can do one wit to change the past or escape the sowing/reaping aspects of our past (not to mention the judgment to come). We can however, use the past experiences today for the good of those around us.

Got to run...

William


I want to believe!
Re: Consider this... [message #171 is a reply to message #170 ] Sat, 11 March 2006 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous Please
Rest assured I don't and won't dwell on those things. It's unhealthy.

I've learned from my mistakes and the lessons have made me a better Christian, Father and Husband. Just ask my wife....well maybe not today. She's in a bad mood about last night.
Re: Consider this... [message #505 is a reply to message #162 ] Thu, 01 March 2007 14:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nita20698  is currently offline nita20698
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I've been thinking on this for a long long time.

I think part of the problem with the working it out body of Faith Assembly believers we were too self focus on our walk with the Lord.

Healing affects us.

Prosperity affects us.

Walking rightly and not disappointing God affects us.

With that teaching came a sense of protecting one's self from the risk of other's influence (to insure our prayers weren't hindered)which would harm US.

We couldn't fellowship with an outsider (it might harm OUR walk)

We needed to warn others of their sins, lest WE become a partaker of the sins we felt they had.

Often our attempts at walking in the spirit got in the way of the Holy Spirit in the lives of those around us.

Did we spend any time focused on the good news of salvation with those around us? Not sharing the deeper life, not sharing healing but basic salvation?

For all our holiness (which affected only ourselves) in the years of the walk did we actively share that Jesus came to save another and bring them to heaven?

Did we care about the suffering of others on a deep personal level or just consider it their due?

Nita
Re: Consider this... [message #506 is a reply to message #169 ] Thu, 01 March 2007 16:32 Go to previous message
nita20698  is currently offline nita20698
Messages: 2
Registered: March 2007
Location: sw michigan
Junior Member
I'm sorry your friend went through the loss of his child. That is the most devastating loss any of us can endure, and to know that he could have done something differently makes it all the harder.

The no calling part, we simply didn't understand that compassion was still necessary. I know when I left the body and no one called that really stood out to me. I had left my son with a sister (at our home) while we went out of town he was around a year and a half old, he'd never been left like that and we were gone for many hours to a family wedding. The next morning he was black and blue on his entire bottom. His wrongs were that he cried for mamma-my older children told me.
I couldn't face that woman without anger and I didn't know how to address the situation within the assembly. It was just the last straw for me. I had a lot of questions and struggles going on in my life at the time and going to the meetings and replying to how are you "blessed" just wasn't working anymore it was just too much of a lie to keep it up.

It's sad I know I had friends suffering through situations in their lives also and I wasn't there for them any more than they knew how to be there for me.

I've learned a different way today how to lift each other up.
Nita
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