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| The "body" of truth... [message #3000] |
Sun, 24 August 2008 17:03  |
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 william
Messages: 1451
Registered: January 2006 |
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Over the past years we've all been bombarded with warnings about the message we received from Hobart Freeman, however, most of us here, with varying degrees of passion, have attempted to stress the positive aspects of our association with brother Freeman's message. That's not to say that we haven't examined the areas where we fell short, we have, but most of us are thankful for our association with brother Freeman and consider that even the negative aspects have had redeeming value in our growth as Christians.
This week I was thinking about this, and the reasons why some no longer want to have anything to do with the message, and suddenly it dawned on me that one of the primary reasons I have for appreciating brother Freeman's ministry is this: He gave us something that no other preacher/teacher has duplicated since his passing... a love for the truth, coupled with the tools needed to discern the true from the false.
This is one reason most of us have never been truly comfortable with any other church, or any other ministry. Some, to this day, cannot find a church home that satisfies the deep longing for the truth that we found at Faith Assembly.
I know I haven't. Brother Freeman stressed the importance of us all digging into the Word of God, for ourselves, so that we could fulfill the ministry that all of us have. It was never about the big I and little u... he restored to us the concept of body ministry. No other place I've ever attended has done that.
The leadership of the charismatic movements across the land continually stresses the importance of "the clergy" only giving lip service to the idea that God wants to use each one of us in a significant way to accomplish His purpose on the earth today. Of this leadership, those who have any true theological training have chosen to keep that for themselves, and have not equipped the saints for their work in the ministry... Hobart Freeman gave it away, he longed for us all to take the truth of body ministry to heights that, in my experience, no one else has even come close to achieving.
And he did it by giving us the tools to do so. Let's be honest, there were few that sat under his ministry, that wouldn't be more qualified for ministry than the entire current crop put together. Why? Because he taught us the Word of God... he planted the seed of God's word in a way that no one else has.
This one thing has been a key element that has enabled us to recognize and discern the true from the false, and even those who constantly criticize all things FA, often do it using the same tools we received from brother Freeman.
Even today, as we look back over our past mistakes, those tools he equipped us with are helping us to winnow out the wheat from the chaff and come to a fuller understanding of our own shortcomings so that we all can have a chance at experiencing the fullness of God!
Thank you Jesus!
Blessings,
William
I want to believe!
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| Re: The "body" of truth... [message #3003 is a reply to message #3001] |
Mon, 25 August 2008 17:23  |
james
Messages: 2137
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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I agree with you guys, even though like Grandom, I am not sure I'm right in not being part of a local fellowship of like believers. But that's the problem, I don't know of any church that believes and teaches The Word without compromise. I know when I do visit a church I can tell if Jesus is there or not pretty quick and if He's not there, why would I want to be there wasting my time? Oh yeah! I forgot...'brother you're kinda tall, want'a play on our mens basketball team'; or 'we got some nice single women here, I'm sure God has one for you'; or 'with your construction background, how about serving on our building committee'; 'we have an angel food service, will you take over and organize that ministry'; or here's a real kick in the pants, and I quote almost word for word," Brother I know the church you used to go to didn't have tithing, but now that you are coming here(and God said through the pastor that we should tithe), don't you think you should tithe on the money you've make since you went to church, because you know in your heart that it's really Gods money?" (hey, for real, that would only be 14 years of income, yeah, sure why not?) Can anyone say, 'Cha-Ching'!!! If it had happened to anyone else, I'd have trouble believing it...Straight out of the pastors wife's mouth...well actually she was a pastor too...(that's what the billboard said)
Yep, one might say I have a couple of issues with 'the demon system' and the demons that run them...
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: The "body" of truth... [message #3004 is a reply to message #3003] |
Mon, 25 August 2008 18:25 |
grandom
Messages: 404
Registered: October 2007 |
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James
I`m sure most all of us that have tried to find something, anything that we could embrace as a Christian assembly have experienced exactly what you are talking about. If the word isn`t lacking and it is. If the ministry isn`t in order and most times it`s not. Woman pastors, prophetess`s Woman church officers.A rigid order of service (no chance of the Holy Spirit working), Probably a show from the choir. The box of envelopes with the various departments you should give to (tithe). I` m becoming ill. I cant go on.
I believe the Lord lets us know His displeasure in Is.1:11-13 and in verse 14 He says "Your new moons and your appointed feasts (Easter,advent,lent,Christmas,and on and on) they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them. In v13 He says all these things are an abomination to Him..Need I go into the vain repetitious prayers ,the liturgy.I don't happen to want to be in a place or service that is an abomination to the Lord. Your right James. The Lord wont be in such an assembly.
So what do we do. I don't have the answer. Like you Hombre, I have to overcome the service itself and by that time my worship isnt acceptable because I`ve kinda gotten into the flesh. It`s rude to walk out of a service before it`s over but I confess I have done it. Pray for me okay.
This forum has more teaching and truth and now we have worship music posted also. The Lord continues to Bless. Didn't he say I will reward those who diligently seek Him.By reward I mean a deeper understanding of His word and fellowship amongst His people.
Watchman, What of the night.
Come quickly Lord Jesus
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| Re: The "body" of truth... [message #3007 is a reply to message #3004] |
Mon, 25 August 2008 19:31 |
james
Messages: 2137
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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I remember when I'd work hard from predawn til the job was done, get home in time to shower and be at the meetings with 5 minutes to spare and be blessed and thankful to be there...No drudgery...couldn't wait to see what God had for me next. Listening to HEF tapes going to work, on the job site, and on the way home. Like rain coming to the desert, couldn't get enough. The last church I went to, I found myself making excuses to myself as to why I needed to work late on meeting nights. That should be a wake up call to anyone, if you're dreading going to church? there's one of two things wrong, either you aren't saved or The Holy Spirit is not involved there. Cause any christian who has experienced God's presence... only wants HIS PRESENCE...not a man made substitute.
"I was GLAD when they said unto me, Let us go into the house of The Lord." Ps. 122:1
btw: how many days did it rain when Noah build the ark. Reason I'm asking is, I'm wondering if I need to start buying some gopher wood and catching animals, cause we gettn' some rain in Alabama.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: The "body" of truth... [message #3009 is a reply to message #3007] |
Mon, 25 August 2008 21:46 |
james
Messages: 2137
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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I can see where that could wear a body down, especially the mothers. We had families with as many as 12 children and probably an average of 6. But I was just an observer, course now I did do my 'uncle james' part, but imagine a single guy taking 4 children under 5 to the zoo...lesson learned...
Yeah sure, I can laugh NOW...
I used to kid one brother by asking him just how big was his quiver, and how there were other biblical ways to be 'happy'. Ps. 127:5
Now that I think back on it, he never laughed quite as much as I did, at my joke, hummm.
[Updated on: Mon, 25 August 2008 21:55]
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: The "body" of truth... [message #3014 is a reply to message #3012] |
Tue, 26 August 2008 15:03 |
james
Messages: 2137
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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I've been seeking The Lord lately concerning 'watchman' and what a watchman is and does. I read a good portion of Isaiah and today was reading in Jeremiah chapter 12 and was contemplating on verse 5, which we're all familar with. "If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?" And I remember Bro. Freeman teaching on that passage and thinking how apropos it is for today. But as I read along, verse 10 really jumped out at my spirit; "Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness. V-11 They have made it desolate, and being desolate it mourneth unto me;the whole land is made desolate, because no man layeth it to heart."
Does this not speak of today? Pastors preaching 'feel good' messages; tickling the ears; destroying the church, rather than building it up. But why is the whole land desolate? "...Because no man layeth it to heart."
So in the context of a person coming up to the wall and shouting up to the watchman asking; watchman, what of the night? I would think a true watchman would give forth a warning; look around and see the desolation, the false prophets who say He is here, He is there; listen not but rather take heed to God's Word... To be a repairer of the breach...Is.58:12; To interceed...Is.59:16; and to watch...Is.62:6 'Take it to heart'
"Heaven and earth shall pass away,but my words shall not pass away." Matt.24:35
Lyrics to a secular song: 'Where have all flowers gone?...'
The cry of Gods' people: 'Where have the true pastors gone?'
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: The "body" of truth... [message #3019 is a reply to message #3014] |
Tue, 26 August 2008 16:29 |
james
Messages: 2137
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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You might want to reconsider those resort towns, most of the ones I've been to have totally torn down the walls( as in the wall the watchman is supposed to be on,watching). So you'd really have your work cut out for you at one of those places. First you'd have to rebuild the wall,( of course while you were doing that you'd be laughed to scorn; as was Noah when building the ark. You know, it hadn't rained since... or whatcha want to build a wall for, we aren't in any danger?) Second, you'd have to overcome the owners of all the tourist traps, who would want to stone you, cause nobody's going to want to come to the resorts if they feel like there could be danger there.(why else build a wall, except to keep the inhabitants safe). Get my drift?
Course if you're bound and determined to do it, then yeah, I'll agree with you according to Matt.18:19
Send us a post card...
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: The "body" of truth... [message #3025 is a reply to message #3019] |
Wed, 27 August 2008 01:24 |
JWBTI
Messages: 253
Registered: March 2007
Location: Ohio |
Senior Member |
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Hombre wrote:
...I don't know about attempting to work in a established church to bring about some depth...those I have experienced have not been 'open' to anything that falls outside of their personal experience....and I know how long I last at those places...not very. If I could resist getting angry ( or righteously indignant, however you want to see it * ), not become spiritually lethargic after their manner, and find a way to keep from being expelled after announcing that Mark IS part of the Bible and carries as much weight as John does ( perhaps grappling hooks attached to the doorposts? ), I suppose that there would be a possibility.
..maybe it's my time to stand on a street corner playing John the Baptist in the concrete jungle.
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Rons Thoughts,
Hombre, I don't see anything wrong with Righteous Indignantion inspired by the Holy Spirit !
Is it time........ to go in an throw out the money changers an those that buy & sell in the church ?
Is it time........ to go into the Religious Buildings an say: Scribes, Pharisee & Hypocrites ?
Is it time... to confront those leaders that defraud Gods Holy Word ,to contend for the Truth as Peter, James, Paul an Stephen ?
They went into the Temple an contended with the elders(pastors).sometimes they only got to speak once..but what a message ?
The apostles went outside the box to Preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the Jews.....
Is the Book of Acts our example........ on how to confront religious error of our time ?
Is it time ......to go outside the Box ....to Confront.....Convict.....an Bring hope to the unbelieving Church ?
Is it Time ?
God knows......Be lead of The Holy Spirit in all that we do !
Ron
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| Re: The "body" of truth... [message #3145 is a reply to message #3041] |
Sat, 06 September 2008 12:47 |
james
Messages: 2137
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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Gary wrote:
"I am glad to see some people out there who are holding on to the truth and refuse to obey the lies of the world and the devil, and the church world. I did not know you even existed anymore."
It looks like quite a few of us was in that position, of not knowing if anyone else still 'existed' or continued to hold in our hearts, what God had given us. Many of our stories have a common thread, questions; backslidding; thinking we're alone; wandering around spiritually for 10-25 years, not able to find a 'church home'; then experiencing an awakening of what God placed within us, and a desire and hunger for 'the old paths'.
I knew that God had a remnant, but I had no contact with anyone who even tried to follow in The Word or the message of faith we had been taught. I know we've all got baggage from our journey through the desert, but finding this web site and getting CONNECTED again with fellow believers, is imo, the start of God bringing us out of that desert and getting us ready for His return. We've had years of preparation and time to reflect on our failures, I think it's time for us to bring forth the fruit He's expecting of us.
It is not by chance that this has happen at this time in our lives...God has a purpose and a plan, always has, it's awsome to know that we're included in it...
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: The "body" of truth... [message #3166 is a reply to message #3145] |
Sun, 07 September 2008 19:35 |
JWBTI
Messages: 253
Registered: March 2007
Location: Ohio |
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In light of what has been posted on this board:
Ref:
How God has preserved us an brought us back to Himself after all these years !
I would like to share this from the past.
On Sunday Sept 26,1982, Evening Service
26 years ago to the month.
During the Praise an Worship, I shared this Revelation with the Body at Faith Assembly.
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Sometimes we look around in the natural realm an it seems like nothing is happening.
I’ve questioned God about this at times: No Gifts or Fruit or Nothing in the spiritual
Realm seems to be going on.
But take heed: much is going on that we can’t see with our natural eyes.
We are like the Seed, when we first came out of the shuck, the carriers, the system.
We were made manifest to this world by way of the Baptism of The Holy Spirit an the
Gifts, but after a time, we… as the seeds had to fall to the ground to be covered over by the Word,
to die to self life and to be some what hidden away under the earth an the water
of the Word. As we are covered over as the seeds are in the earth,we will take on different
forms an shapes. For a time it will seem like nothing is happening.
But as the seed is feed an nurtured out of sight, it grows an becomes tempered so when it breaks forth
through the crust of the earth it can with stand all that will be against it.
The time for the Seed , the virgin word to break forth is at hand. But the crust of the earth is hard an
packed down by mans teachings an systems but we are being nurtured to full
stature before we are to be made manifest to this world so when we break forth through
the crust of the earth we will stand tall as fully matured vessels ready to deliver this groaning creation
not as babies but of Full Stature.
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Brother Freeman came out a few minutes later an taught on Mt 13:
The Tares An The Seeds
In the short time that I have been on this board. I have witnessed the breaking forth of Seeds from all over the World from all walks of life. Seeds are coming forth with a Fire in there Hearts an a Desire to Serve The Living God.
God planted His Word in our hearts many years ago an He said: that His Word would not return void…..so be it. Let us press on to our High Calling of God !
Ron
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| Re: The "body" of truth... [message #5122 is a reply to message #3166] |
Thu, 12 February 2009 16:54 |
grandom
Messages: 404
Registered: October 2007 |
Senior Member |
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| Alanbook wrote on Wed, 11 February 2009 00:43 |
Its amazing all this stuff written in these posts seemed like they happened eons ago in another life. Well I know it hasn't been that long ago but it seems like it. So much has changed.
Grandom shared in another post about the joy from the Lord. Hearing the Word being preached back then had a substance to it that seemed real. We sure didn't end up following the book of acts experience.
Sometimes I wonder if the Lord scattered us all out to some wilderness, or did we bring it about ourselves. Talk about joy, grandom, I was glad when they said unto me let us go into the house of the Lord. I remember the presense of the Lord being so real. We went to meetings four or five times a week and would of went more if they had them.
Today I honestly regret going into what they call a church setting. I have visited dozens of different churches. Believe me I've tried to be understanding, but something just plain old is missing. The last church we went to after twenty minutes of telling us how we will be blessed if we give more,(this happened every week), to a clear twisting of scriptures, (this happened every week),then the pastors wife dragging people up front so she could prophesy to them,(this also happened every week), something was just lacking.
I went for several months and tried to be understanding and overlook everything, but the longer I was there the stranger it got. I know a lot of these people love the Lord and were saved at one time. Even though I have tried I cannot seem to find a place in these establishments.
I've heard all the stories about reaching out and sharing with others. But most don't want anyone rocking the boat in these places. Everyone is just suppose to take a seat and enjoy the program.
Like I said; I have tried to overlook all this and act like its not there, but its not real. Sometimes I even have toyed with the idea that well maybe we were thoroughly brainwashed and led astray by a man.
But I cannot deny the annointing, the worship and the Words of the Lord, the gifts, the fellowship of the beleivers. There was a reality there that does not exist in the churches today.
Every meeting was like setting at the feet of Jesus, with a gentle breeze of the Spirit flowing in and through us.
I'm sure someone won't agree with all this but this is what I have had to struggle with in the Lord. I'm amazed how some can overlook everything and warm a seat each week. It must be a gift you have.
I am not ashamed of what I went through. I'm really not looking for a lecture on the what if's and maybe's. Believe me I've heard them all. If you don't agree with this at all then please spend time praying for me. And if you do agree with this spend time praying for me. I appreciate all the prayers and intercessions for wisdom from the Lord, that I can get.
Gary
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Gary,
Thanks for sharing your heart with us brother. It`s ironic Ron (JWBTI) and I were just reminiscing the other day about the days when we went to FA. We were excited and went to every meeting possible with great anticipation and expectation. At times we wondered where the gas money would come from, should we buy food or buy gas. We bought the gas, were feed heavenly food and we never went hungry in the natural realm. God gave us a blessing that we have all come to realize that maybe it was a once in a lifetime experience. Why did He chose us for this blessing as opposed to any of hundreds or thousands of other people I haven't a clue other that in His infinite wisdom and sovereignty we were chosen.
I think we all have tried to fit in (churches)? Since then to no avail. I to have wondered is it me, were we deceived and of course the answer is no. We all have also made fun of and mocked the modern churches for which I wish I would have kept my pie hole shut, but be that as it may I know God has His people in there. Few there be but he does have a remnant.
Here is the conclusions I have reached in regards to churches of today, and I say this without condemnation but as an honest appraisal made with my limited humble opinion based on experience of my own as you brothers and sisters as well.
1) IMHO there is no way that the Holy Spirit can operate in any denomination. The pastors have to follow the denominational doctrine which has been instituted to operate in the absence of the Holy Spirit.
2) If a pastor is receiving a salary and is not associated with a denomination then he is a hireling and therefore has as his boss those who pay him. He cant afford to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit as he will soon find himself without a job. JN 10 :12
But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
Jesus apparently didn't have a high opinion of hirelings.
So where does that leave us? What are we to do? Hombre suggested that maybe we should get on the street corners and have a go at spreading the word. If that`s what the Holy Spirit wants some of us to do then we better get at it. I think we have to get on our knees and seriously seek the kingdom first and He will give us the answer.
I pray for the people in the churches without shepherds. Many of my relatives are in them and your right Gary, they don't want to hear what the word say. Having said that it still is our duty to speak the word. Jesus never said it would be easy. It may seem an insurmountable task. We battle not against flesh and blood.I think we to often forget. We are fighting against the devil. If we take things personally and give up he has won. I have made it a goal of mine to never get upset again with a brother or sister or for that matter any other human... If I get upset then that shows a problem I have with my heart and I am not battling the right being.
So brothers and sisters, as Gary as aptly said, If you agree with me or disagree please pray for me. I also can use all the prayers I can get.
The Lords blessings to all
Dick
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| Re: The "body" of truth... [message #5933 is a reply to message #3012] |
Mon, 06 July 2009 03:24 |
james
Messages: 2137
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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| grandom wrote on Tue, 26 August 2008 07:59 |
As I contemplated our discussions yesterday on modern day churches and why some of us can`t tolerate them the Lord kept speaking to my spirit. STRANGE FIRE. I went back to Lev to reads the account of Nadab and Abihu. They offered a worship that was not what God had ordered or approved. Strange fire.One of the
Meanings in Hebrew for strange is also profane. So I looked up what the dictionary definition of profane is.
Profane:characterized by irreverence or contempt for God or sacred principles or things; irreligious.
Now I have to ask, is not that in a nutshell the definition of church today. There is no reverence to the Holiness of God. May I add that the seraphim's constantly chant Holy,Holy,Holy.Not love love love even though that is an attribute of God but no it`s Holy, Holy, Holy.In most churches that I have been in there is a constant chatter about earthly things before service ie did you see the ball game last night etc. No reverence for the house of God.I don't see that honoring God.
What then of the watchman(ministers)? I don't see them honoring God and respecting his Holiness. Their message is not from God but to please men (tickle their ears).I wonder how many burials there would be today if fire came down from heaven to burn up strange fire.
Lev 10:10 And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;
Tell me which church is doing that today.
God help us. Come quickly Lord Jesus
Watchman,What of the night
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Question, do we still have watchmen on the wall? What has happened to the voice crying, 'Watchman, What of the night'? Have we grown weary of 'watching', of warning, of well doing...have we left the inhabitants to fend for themselves?
Is our commitment based upon our 'mood' at any given time, or are we faithfully honoring our commitment to watch and wait, ever prepared to sound the trumpet or shout a warning at the least sign of the enemy approaching.
Commitment requires consistency, and to be consistent we must have commitment. Now's not the time for drawing away, there's a need for watchmen...Dedicated Watchmen.
God give us diligent, faithful, consistent Watchmen.
Watchman, what of the night?
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: The "body" of truth... [message #5935 is a reply to message #5933] |
Mon, 06 July 2009 04:31 |
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william
Messages: 1451
Registered: January 2006 |
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Good post James, you always keep us on our toes!
As I read back over this thread I think that I've pinpointed a fact that hasn't been addressed adequately --we all tend to associate 'the church' with its leadership and as the leadership goes, so goes the church. No one can deny that the leadership of many (maybe most) churches have failed miserably in carrying out their responsibilities to perfect the Body of Christ. As a consequence we tend to look at this failure and then blame everyone, from the leaders to the flock, and write ICHABOD over the whole mess.
I'm wondering if we haven't been too hasty in condemning the whole when most of the fault should be laid at the feet of the hirelings?
I recently heard of a situation where someone had returned to the Lord but had nothing good to say about the church at all. As it was related to me this brother had actually expressed a hatred of the church because of, as he put it, "all of the hypocrites", and then proceeded to state emphatically that he was not going to yoke himself up with these hypocrites.
The person who brought this incident up made this statement: Quote: "... and he's reconciled his relationship with God.
He's a born again Believer, and is very much a follower of Jesus."
Here is my response:
***********
I don't think so... he may be born again but he isn't a follower of Jesus. Jesus died for the Church (Acts 20:28 see below); a follower of Jesus should exhibit the same love for the assembly of believers as He does. I'm certainly not saying that there are not serious problems that permeate the Church, but there is a world of difference between someone who hates the assembly (however imperfect it may be now) that Jesus purchased with His own blood, and those who eagerly anticipate the marriage of the Groom to the 'wife' who has made herself ready!
In fact, it is through the gifts that HE has given TO THE CHURCH that will eventually lead us to that end. It is the CHURCH that has been given the ministry gifts that will bring us all into the fullness of Christ: And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: Eph 4:11-13
Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Ac 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
With this in mind consider these passages:
Ac 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Ac 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed [them] to prison.
Ac 12:1 Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth [his] hands to vex certain of the church.
It is the enemy that hates the Church. Most of the shortcomings of the Church can be directly attributed to his (Satan's) work in and through illegitimate leaders who transform themselves into angels of light. (2Co 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.) In reality there is no light in them for God says -"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." (Isa 8:20)
If it is true (and it is!) that Jesus tells us that the whole Law can be summed up by our loving God with our whole hearts and loving our neighbors as we love ourselves then how is it we think that this somehow excludes our responsibility to love 'the Church'?
Hey, I'll be the first to criticize the problems I see in our modern-day Church, especially the woeful lack of true leadership within the Church, but let's give the flock a little bit of a break, after all it is HIS flock we are talking about, and we are either a part of His flock or we are not.
See some hypocrisy in the Church? Maybe God has called you to prophesy against it! You can't help the body/assembly/Church of Christ unless you are a part of it. If they kick you out find another assembly of believers to yoke up with... remember, dismembered body parts can't really do anything except maybe provide a little shock value. Judges 19. We need each other.
Here is the value of the Church to Jesus:
Ac 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Paul also gave his life in service to the Church (after being used by the enemy in an attempt to destroy it):
1Co 10:32-33 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.
1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
Who can seriously give up on the Church in the light of these passages?
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Jesus says that He not only gave Himself for the Church, to sanctify it, but that He is going to present it to HIMSELF!
Next Paul tells us that JESUS is the HEAD of the Church--Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Compare this next verse with those who 'hate' the Church and want nothing to do with the Church... oh that we had more like Paul!
Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church:
Tell this guy that if He wants to be a follower of Jesus, he might start by loving what Jesus loves and go so far as to follow Paul's example and suffer a little bit for the Church before taking the cop-out-route by staying home.
********
Do we also hate those for whom Christ died? Do we not bear any responsibility toward His sheep that are scattered everywhere?
Blessings,
William
[Updated on: Mon, 06 July 2009 04:41]
I want to believe!
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| Re: The "body" of truth... [message #5937 is a reply to message #5935] |
Mon, 06 July 2009 16:30 |
james
Messages: 2137
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Good point, William...
I hope and pray that I don't come across as one who hates the Body of Christ/church/assembly. I am sure I could (and should) express more love for the sheep. ( I admit, I've had terrible experiences with leadership of 'churches, and I'm sure those experiences have shaped my additude to some extent. )
That's a well written reminder, thanks. We DO bear a responsibility to His sheep that are scattered everywhere.
This is my purpose for being here, on this forum, to in some way allow The Holy Spirit to use me ( as unworthy as i am ) in helping others...if it be encouragment, admonishment, warnings, or whatever He gives me to share. I know that I was helped a little over a year ago when I found this forum; God used the interaction and challenges of others to create a new hunger for Him and His Word that I had allowed to slip...I want to be a vessel to point others, who might be in the same spiritual desert, back to the source of Living Water, Jesus.
Keeping people on their toes, is a good thing...
Stomping on them, is not my calling...
[Updated on: Thu, 30 July 2009 13:30]
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: The "body" of truth... [message #5938 is a reply to message #5933] |
Tue, 07 July 2009 02:16 |
sparkles
Messages: 246
Registered: March 2008 |
Senior Member |
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Ezekiel 3:17-21
17: "Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
18: When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning , nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19: Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
20: Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I requite at thine hand.
21: Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he does not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul."
There have been watchmen over the years sounding the trumpet of what is to come, and yet many have not hearkened to the sound of the trumpet, but have said, "We will not hearken." Therefore the Lord will bring evil on those who chose not to hearken to voice of the Lord, those who reject His clear word.
There have been watchmen warning of the coming economic collapse and yet multitudes choose to go in debt, just so they can have the things that others have, not realizing that the things of this world are quickly passing away. Col. 3:1-3 "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set you affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God."
There is fear all around us, and yet hasn't our Lord promised to supply all our needs (Phil 4:19.)
Most of us don't lack anything, but if we see those around us in need, do we willingly help them? Whether it be money or time, aren't we told to help those in need? (I John 3:17-18)
It may even be a kind word or a card, or a call to someone who needs a little encouragement.
May God guide all of us in the days ahead, and give us a hunger for Jesus and His Word and much discernment, and restore unto some the joy of their salvation, and to others may the words of the Lord rebuke and convict them of their backslidings and give them repentance to return to their savior.
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| Re: The "body" of truth... [message #5941 is a reply to message #5938] |
Tue, 07 July 2009 23:40 |
Mark L
Messages: 834
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
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the title of International Global Moderator and POTOO was just a friendly message
I read that the other day - your new title that is - I was so impressed I have been trying to think of something suitable for myself. I thought Grand Poobah might fit. But then I thought William might object. Stay tuned!!!!
By the way I haven't posted much lately because we have been so busy at work and then coming home I'm just too tired.
Fires will be kindled to testify that two and two make four. Swords will be drawn to prove that leaves are green in summer.”
G.K. Chesterton
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| Re: The "body" of truth... [message #6012 is a reply to message #3000] |
Sat, 01 August 2009 06:37 |
jewelsboye
Messages: 10
Registered: September 2008 |
Junior Member |
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Where do I begin? I read this post for the first time today and I have many comments and a question to ask of everyone as well. I was four years old when I first went to FA. We went there for two years, left for two years, and then came back for another two years. I am saddened and also partly ashamed to say that only one time have I physically felt the presence of the Holy Spirit and that was when I was worshipping at FA. It is indescribable and I have never felt the way I did there at any other church. That sounds crazy because I was so young, but it is my story. I do go to church and I have grown to love my church, but it is not Faith Assembly. I don't remember too much of the teaching, but I remember it was powerful. The worship and the atmosphere there was intoxicating and to have such an impact on a child says something. For years I have heard people on both sides of the FA argument. I was there the night Bro. Farrel (sp?) spoke in front of the congregation and then left for good and I cried. I see both sides of the coin. There was legalism, but there was profound teaching. I think grace was what was missing... We are told to sift through what we hear and pull the wheat out and throw out the rest. I do that with Freeman's teachings today. When we left Indiana the second time, we pretty much quit going to church because my dad couldn't find anything like FA. He never has and to this day he doesn't like going to church. He is still a believer, but I can see what not going to a church and just being with other believers has had on him. My husband and I sometimes long to hear powerful teaching. My husband listened to over a hundred of Freeman's cds and loved most of what he heard. He still points out all of the problems that Freeman and the church had though and because of this I think he tends to shy away from some of what Freeman taught. Recently went to another local church to try it out. A girl I met said that this church was kinda like a charismatic church and told us about it so we got excited to try it out. This leads me to my question...
They have unscripted worship, but their pastor doesn't speak very often. There are guest speakers very frequently. We have been twice and heard two guest speakers. Is this normal? We wanted to go again the next week so we could actually hear the pastor speak, but there were guest speakers lined up for the next three weeks also. The guest speakers didn't really preach from the bible but we figured it is because they are guests speaking on whatever their thing is. If they have so many guest speakers, where are they getting fed? Our biggest problem that will keep us from going there on any sort of regular basis is that the pastor team is a husband and wife. I have a problem with this as does my husband. I do not think that a woman should be pastoring a church and preaching from the pulpit. Doesn't Paul forbid this? How can a church who seems to portray a closeness with the gifts/word of the Lord overlook something like this? I don't get it.
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| Re: The "body" of truth... [message #6024 is a reply to message #6012] |
Sun, 02 August 2009 16:13 |
sparkles
Messages: 246
Registered: March 2008 |
Senior Member |
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Hi Jewel,
I sure appreciate your testimony of what you experienced at Faith Assembly. As many have said, it was a place where the worship and presence of the Lord was something we experienced every service. The people who lead worship had a close relationship with Jesus Christ, and heard from Him. I remember Brother Jerry coming up to Grand Rapids,MI (where I actually went, but almost weekly went to Faith Assembly for quite a while) preaching and you felt like you were at the feet of Jesus. Same when Brother Gary came. You just knew they had been in the presence of Jesus. The word they preached was powerful, convicting, and life changing, if people would just get the word in their heart.
At Faith Assembly the presence of the Lord was there. The word preached was some of the best I have ever heard, and has changed my life, to teach me how to trust Jesus Christ for myself and my family. I still love to hear Brother Freeman's messages on tape, and some of the things that have been taught are as relevant as if he were still alive today. Why? Because it was the word of the Lord.
Was he perfect? No, of course not. Were the people who went there perfect? No, not that either. But many of the people(not all) wanted to please the Lord and have a relationship with Jesus Christ.
As far as staying at a church where there is no true word taught, I would stay away from it. You read over and over in the Bible how the Word of God was preached, the gospel was preached, Christ was preached, the Kingdom of God was preached, so therefor if you are not hearing a word that is pointing you to Jesus, and the Word of God then I guess I would say why go? At the very least you are wasting your time, and even more seriously you could be hearing suble deceptions and lies of Satan taught. I would also agree with you as far as having a woman pastor. Personally I do not see it in the Word of God. I believe there is a divine order in the home and in the church, and I don't see a woman as a pastor of a church. I would say my biggest concern with the church you mention is a lack of biblical teaching, and no one to lead the sheep. If a pastor is not making sure the sheep are getting good food, ie allowing guest speakers who do not preach the word of God, then I would at the very least question his discernment and call to pastor.
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