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When Christ comes for the Body of Christ. [message #11765] Tue, 22 September 2015 02:22 Go to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
Messages: 532
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia
Senior Member
We know that when Jesus was on earth He taught His disciples many truths & told them to teach others. `”Go therefore & make disciples of all nations, baptizing them…teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you…` (Matt. 28: 19 & 20)


Then when He ascended to the Father He revealed more of His plans & purposes to the Apostle Paul, who then gave his disciples `the whole counsel of God.` (Acts 20: 27) The early disciples thus knew all of God`s plans & purposes not only for Israel & the other nations but also for this new group they were learning about – the Body of Christ.

`Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God.` (1 Cor. 10: 32)


Paul taught them the whole counsel of God but warned that when he was gone false teachers would arise & come to try to deceive them.

`For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.` (Acts 20: 27)


`Take heed….for I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.` (Acts 20: 29 – 31)



Looking back throughout history we can see the main errors that came against the believers

– not holding fast to the Head,
- letting leaders lord it over them,
- division of laity & priests,
- baptism of children,
- connecting church & State,
- indulgences,

Then we see that there is a reviving of the truths of Christ as the Holy Spirit brings revelation & guides not only individuals but the whole Body of Christ into all truth.

`When He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth..` (John 16: 13)



The main truths we can see that have been restored over the centuries are –

- Salvation through Christ`s sacrifice.
- Living a holy life.
- Baptism in water for adults as a profession of faith.
- Infilling of the Holy Spirit & His giftings.
- The ministry gifts of the ascended Christ. (Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher, Prophet, Apostle)

These we have seen recognized in the second part of the last century. Along with the true there also has come the false, and each believer needs to be very discerning.

Then there is the last truth to be revealed, clarified by the Holy Spirit across the Body of Christ. This concerns the eternal purposes of God for the Body of Christ, for Israel & for the nations. At the present time we are in the `tossed to & fro` time where we are all working through this eschatological topic. Much discussion, debate & challenging of preconceived ideas is going on. However when the `dust settles` as it were & the `muddy waters,` have cleared then the Body of Christ will come through and -

`we all come to the unity of faith & the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ: that we should no longer be children, tossed to & fro & carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to deceive, but, speaking the truth in love may grow up in all things into Him who is the Head – Christ – from whom the whole Body, joined & knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, cause the growth of the Body for the edifying of itself in love.` (Eph. 4: 13 – 16)


The Eternal Purposes are concerned with WHY God has planned each group & their eternal inheritance. Too often we get our heads butting over the details when if we started to look at why God has planned His purposes, then we would not only understand them better but have a greater appreciation of our Lord & Saviour, our Heavenly Father & the Holy Spirit.

I hope we can have a good discussion on the unity of faith & what the Holy Spirit has revealed over the years, remembering that many have died for the truths they stood for. And we have these truths today so that individually & corporately as a Body, we may grow up into Him, our Head.

Marilyn.










Marilyn C
Re: When Christ comes for the Body of Christ. [message #11775 is a reply to message #11765 ] Sun, 27 September 2015 07:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
Messages: 870
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana
Senior Member
Hi Marilyn,

What more could anyone say here I think you covered all the ground on what took place. A lot of the changes started at the time of the reformation with Luther.

It started with Luther when he received the revelation that a man is saved by faith. Things started changing even though Luther still believed in infant baptism and other Catholic doctrines. Another man came along and said this was error,(infant baptism), and started a new group, after him another man started a group because the second man still held to some error, etc. etc.. Then comes the Anabaptist group and all the first groups started persecuting them as being heretics because they totally broke away from the Catholic church.

It has been like this from the beginning of the reformation and this is why we have over 600 denominations (may be more), that cannot agree on what the Bible says because of what their leaders taught them through the centuries.

I'm not saying the reformation was bad because from the beginning of the reformation Christians were trying to get back to primitive Christianity as it first started in the book of Acts.

Now here we are at the end of time, (at least I believe that), and we find the Catholic church is rising up in power again around the world.

Were told over here that government and religion are to be separate. This is why the government is removing anything to do with Christianity from all government institutions, schools, court houses, etc..

But then we see the Pope pays a visit to America and its the government who rolls out the red carpet and makes a big deal over a religious dignitary. The Pope then takes the podium and we don't hear anything about the way of salvation through Jesus Christ, but he spends his time dealing with issues, that sound like Obama's political agenda.

It's almost like everything is going back to a time before the reformation. The Catholics carry more weight and influence in America then the Christian church. I thought I read somewhere that the Christian church fled from the catholic churches influence and came to America to start over. Now if a church does not join in and agrees with all other religions including this nice pope, the church is looked upon as being divisive which is another story. Its not the world's place to tell the church how to conduct its affairs, which again is another story.

What the Pope saying isn't all bad, like helping the poor, the environment, the migrant problem but I think social issues is not the problem its allowing sin to run rampant while everyone turns their heads and say nothing.

You made the statement here:

Quote:


Looking back throughout history we can see the main errors that came against the believers

– not holding fast to the Head,
- letting leaders lord it over them,
- division of laity & priests,
- baptism of children,
- connecting church & State,
- indulgences,

Then we see that there is a reviving of the truths of Christ as the Holy Spirit brings revelation & guides not only individuals but the whole Body of Christ into all truth.

`When He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth..` (John 16: 13)



The main truths we can see that have been restored over the centuries are –

- Salvation through Christ`s sacrifice.
- Living a holy life.
- Baptism in water for adults as a profession of faith.
- Infilling of the Holy Spirit & His giftings.
- The ministry gifts of the ascended Christ. (Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher, Prophet, Apostle)





This is all true what you shared but these are like the main headings and can be expounded upon in what there application means.

Most churches have in their creeds these main truths, but in breaking them down through their teachings everyone disagrees what the application is and what they are saying. Go on any church web site and read what their church creed says and it will generally line up with the statements you shared.

Then we find in the church world, Whether it be water baptism, what is considered holy living, the Baptism of the Spirit and the gifts, Ministry gifts, all of these subjects are what everyone disagrees on. Most will not change their views because they think their forsaking Bible truths. In reality everyone is holding to their doctrinal teaching of what the Word says concerning these subjects.

If anything its easy to be swayed by doctrine if you feel its correct and all along you could be wrong in your interpretation but you believe what you have been told, this is why so many refuse and don't want to hear about it or try to change what was told them. Let's face reality, for some reason humanity does not like any kind of change because it becomes painful to change.

Just throwing out some thoughts here. I don't think all churches are considered the body of Christ because of the type of fruit they are producing in the world. But there are many groups out there, where true believers exist that make up the body of Christ. Even though they agree on the main headings you listed they divide over the application and meaning of these creeds.



Gary










Re: When Christ comes for the Body of Christ. [message #11776 is a reply to message #11775 ] Sun, 27 September 2015 18:02 Go to previous message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
Messages: 532
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia
Senior Member
Hi Gary,

Thank you for your comments. They were helpful to add more detail. So many people have held fast to the truths the Holy Spirit revealed & were often martyred. It is good to read of believers in the past, & their stand as it makes us appreciate the truths we have today.

And you brought out that even though believers may have understood one truth, they were in error in another. However Christ by His Holy Spirit is very patient & slowly over the years we have come to much truth today.

Now you have brought up a very good point as per man`s denominations. Yes they will hold fast to their beliefs whether they are right or not, however man`s denominations cannot stop the truths the Holy Spirit is bringing to people.

Just think of the availability today for believers to go on the internet & discuss in forums the different truths. You will find that the truths I mentioned are not the major ones that are different. The major heated discussions are the eternal purposes of God for - the Body of Christ, for Israel & for the nations. It manifests by great discussions on pre/mid/post & the details thereof. This leads to the big `WHY` God is doing such & such.

BTW there has been a recent research on why people are leaving the denominations - `Church refugees,` by Josh Packard & Group Pub. You can read the first chapter & listen to him discussing it, at - The God Journey, #484 & #485, Podcasts. Very interesting, as over 65 million people have left the denominations & Josh was doing research on `why` & came up with a whole new group he calls the `Dones.` They are `done` with the denominations of man, but not `done` with the Lord.

And, note these `dones,` (terrible name - to distinguish from the `nones`) these people were not the disgruntled but those who had worked long & hard in the system, but now realised that they didn`t want to continue to uphold man`s system, & have now stepped out & are doing what the Holy Spirit is leading them to do. Also note, that Josh is a denominational person, & was very surprised with what his research came up with.

Blessings, Marilyn.











[Updated on: Sun, 27 September 2015 18:04]


Marilyn C
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