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Word Studies [message #10804] Mon, 10 February 2014 06:12 Go to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana
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Many words used in the NT we sometimes do not use in modern times and many that we do use I don't know if we understand the full meaning.

In the KJV we find the word guile which has been changed in the NKJV.

Quote:

John 1:47
Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!


What does "guile" mean:

guile noun \ˈgī(-ə)l\

: the use of clever and usually dishonest methods to achieve something

Jesus said, Nathanael had no guile. Also Peter states Jesus had no sin nor guile was found in His mouth.

[quote]

Quote:


1 Peter 2:22
Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:




A number of times we see in the NT an admonition that guile will not be part of a Christian's life:

Quote:


1 Peter 3:10
For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

8.Revelation 14:5
And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.


In the NKJV they interchange this word with the word "deceit".

Deceit means:

de·ceit noun \di-ˈsēt\

: dishonest behavior : behavior that is meant to fool or trick someone

The problem is these words are used in the same verse in the KJV:

Quote:


1 Thessalonians 2:3 For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile:


The translators changed this verse in the NKJV to read:

Quote:


1 Thessalonians 2:3 For our exhortation did not come from error or uncleanness, nor was it in deceit.


Either way guile or deceit is not to be part of the Christians life, nor should we accuse people of having deceit or guile without knowing all the facts in every situation.

In Him,
Gary











Re: Word Studies [message #10944 is a reply to message #10804 ] Sun, 16 March 2014 22:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Registered: March 2008
Location: Louisville, Ky area
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Well, amen to that!

Especially when people have your back in "personal" situations.

Simply unbelievable.


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Word Studies [message #10947 is a reply to message #10804 ] Mon, 17 March 2014 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
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This weekend I had a friend ask me about the 'porpoise skins' Moses used to cover the tabernacle. I hadn't heard of this and since I'm reading through Exodus right now in my daily reading I had to ask him to show me. It was found in Exodus 39:34 and it did say porpoise skins(in his Bible, New American Standard). In my KJV it was translated badgers' skins. So I went to Strong's Concordance and the Hebrew word used is, Tachash, and they say it was probably an animal (clean) with fur, an antelope or badger.
As I looked at various translations usage there were several.

KJV, NKJV,Darby, Young's Literal Translation- badger
NAS-porpoise
ESV, NLT, RSV- goatskin
NIV- sea cow
HCSB- manatee
Message- dolphin
CEV, GNT, NRSV, NET- fine leather

New American Bible wisely said, "tahash skins" lol

I'm good with 'tachash skins' or fine leather. I can't imagine them with boats to go fishing for sea cows, manatees, dolphins, or porpoises. Goatskins are reasonable, antelope and badgers make sense also. It was extremely important that they used exactly what God commanded Moses to use in the making of the tabernacle, down to the finest details...but I don't think it matters one way or the other that we Christians today know exactly which animal was used...I don't see any way to know anyway. But with a post under "Word Studies" this morning it reminded me that "words" are subject to different people's interpretation based on their various understanding and perceptions, sometimes logic isn't applied....such as a 'sea cow'; I just wonder how many sea cows, manatees, and dolphins there were around Mt. Sinai?


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Word Studies [message #10948 is a reply to message #10947 ] Mon, 17 March 2014 17:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Location: Australia
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Hi James,

That should be interesting reading about the Tabernacle. I was given some notes on that many, many years ago & it so opened my eyes to that structure being about the person & work of Christ.

Apparently there are 50 chapters devoted to the construction, description or significance of the tabernacle while there are only 2 chapters used to record creation. This is not surprising since the Tabernacle was God`s dwelling place (prior to Christ on earth). The earth is man`s dwelling place & is only the footstool of God. (Isa. 66: 1)

And we know that Christ is the dwelling place of God in our midst. `And the Word became flesh & dwelt (Tabernacled)among us,...` (John 1: 14)

The `clean animal skin with fur` that covered the Tabernacle gives a good picture of when Christ was clothed in human form.

`He has no form or comeliness; And when we see Him there is no beauty that we should desire Him.` (Isa. 53: 2)

The skins were of a protective & water proof type material. It shed the water & the dirt which came against the Tabernacle. This speaks of the incorruptible aspect of Christ`s character.

Be good to hear more of your `Tabernacle/Christ thoughts.









Marilyn C
Re: Word Studies [message #10951 is a reply to message #10948 ] Tue, 18 March 2014 08:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
Messages: 1928
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
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Marilyn Crow wrote on Mon, 17 March 2014 16:04


Apparently there are 50 chapters devoted to the construction, description or significance of the tabernacle while there are only 2 chapters used to record creation.



Hi Marilyn,

I can't remember 'where' I read or heard the above statement, but just in the last couple of days I came across it. (maybe it was part of the pastor's teaching Sunday, since he was sharing on the 'limited' access man had to God as shown in Exodus and throughout OT which included a brief covering of the tabernacle...of course he went on to show how we as followers of Christ now have direct access unto The Father through Jesus...<veil torn/partition removed>)

[ Found where I read it: It was on a website called The Tabernacle Place, they sell 1:90 scale model kits of the tabernacle, probably good visual tool for teaching children, or adults <grin>]

I have a LOT of thoughts on the establishing of The Tabernacle and how everything that God had them do foreshadows the Work of Christ in His wonderful restoration plan. Thoughts that flood me with gratitude and humility, that show me His Holiness and Grace as I read and reflect on what LOVE He has for His people. Thoughts that sparks deep desires to enter into His presence and worship Him for all eternity. Thoughts that bring tears knowing what Jesus suffered willingly to accomplish this plan, and how often in my life I've made decisions and lived as one who took it for granted or even was deserving of it.

[Updated on: Tue, 18 March 2014 09:01]


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Word Studies [message #10961 is a reply to message #10947 ] Wed, 19 March 2014 20:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana
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james wrote on Mon, 17 March 2014 09:33

This weekend I had a friend ask me about the 'porpoise skins' Moses used to cover the tabernacle. I hadn't heard of this and since I'm reading through Exodus right now in my daily reading I had to ask him to show me. It was found in Exodus 39:34 and it did say porpoise skins(in his Bible, New American Standard). In my KJV it was translated badgers' skins. So I went to Strong's Concordance and the Hebrew word used is, Tachash, and they say it was probably an animal (clean) with fur, an antelope or badger.
As I looked at various translations usage there were several.

KJV, NKJV,Darby, Young's Literal Translation- badger
NAS-porpoise
ESV, NLT, RSV- goatskin
NIV- sea cow
HCSB- manatee
Message- dolphin
CEV, GNT, NRSV, NET- fine leather

New American Bible wisely said, "tahash skins" lol

I'm good with 'tachash skins' or fine leather. I can't imagine them with boats to go fishing for sea cows, manatees, dolphins, or porpoises. Goatskins are reasonable, antelope and badgers make sense also. It was extremely important that they used exactly what God commanded Moses to use in the making of the tabernacle, down to the finest details...but I don't think it matters one way or the other that we Christians today know exactly which animal was used...I don't see any way to know anyway. But with a post under "Word Studies" this morning it reminded me that "words" are subject to different people's interpretation based on their various understanding and perceptions, sometimes logic isn't applied....such as a 'sea cow'; I just wonder how many sea cows, manatees, and dolphins there were around Mt. Sinai?


This is another reason we see so much confusion in the body of Christ. And that is because we have so many translations that say something different.

It would be hard for me to believe that the skins would be porpoises or manatees, these were considered unclean fish.

Here we see in Deut. 14: 9 “These you may eat of all that are in the waters: you may eat all that have fins and scales. 10 And whatever does not have fins and scales you shall not eat; it is unclean for you.


While porpoises have fins they do not have scales, and I think manatees and sea cows have neither. It would be hard to believe God would want the skins of unclean animals in the temple especially if He told the people to abstain from them.

I like the idea you shared about Antelopes as this is considered a clean beast in scripture.

Gary



Re: Word Studies [message #10963 is a reply to message #10961 ] Thu, 20 March 2014 03:59 Go to previous message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
Messages: 870
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana
Senior Member
James wrote:
Quote:

It was extremely important that they used exactly what God commanded Moses to use in the making of the tabernacle, down to the finest details...but I don't think it matters one way or the other that we Christians today know exactly which animal was used.


Exactly! I was thinking about this before I went to sleep last night. For the Jew it is imperative and important that they know this information. Did you realize and you may have heard this, that there is a group in Israel who are dedicated to researching all of this information out for the future rebuilding of the temple?

They have a museum presently in Jerusalem that one can see many of the items that they will be using in the future temple. As for the ark of the covenant some think it is hidden somewhere and will be found before the temple is completed. There's a lot of speculation where it may be.

In our area south of here it is known as the limestone capital of the world. I have actually seen giant cut limestone being hauled on semi's marked "Israel". They have been buying materials for years from here and storing them up for the rebuilding of the temple.

There's also a place out west where they are genetically breeding cattle to have no spots or blemishes that will be used in sacrifice in the temple.

Anyway your right for us gentiles it is not a matter of knowing all this, "but it is interesting if someone is looking into it", but for the Jew it is a different matter entirely, trying to follow what Moses told them on how to build it.

Gary





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