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Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10382] Sun, 24 November 2013 21:07 Go to next message
wishing34  is currently offline wishing34
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In 1967 how did the ministers and the body of Christ deal with I Tim 2:12
when Clara Grace was teaching the entire body of Christ?

Surely they were challenged about this. Anyone know what their
response was?





Jman





---sig------------------------------------------------------ ------------

At the time of this post . . .

FA, the satellites, the spinoffs,and the FA diaspora have been having church
without apostles for 41 years and 328 days.
Initial start date 1/1/72


Recommended: No faith stands that strongly impact our (our children's) lives until we figure out
why the signs and wonders are missing. Something is wrong.






Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10383 is a reply to message #10382 ] Mon, 25 November 2013 02:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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wishing34 wrote on Sun, 24 November 2013 21:07




In 1967 how did the ministers and the body of Christ deal with I Tim 2:12
when Clara Grace was teaching the entire body of Christ?

Surely they were challenged about this. Anyone know what their
response was?





Jman




Jman,

Greetings. Don't know quite how to answer your question as I have greater concerns over this matter.

If Copeland and Hagin are spreading damnable, heretical doctrines all over America and around the world. Should we not be concerned that their disciples who follow these teachings are not promoting them as well?

If someone is saying they are receiving prophecies from the Lord shouldn't they be getting a check in their spirits when someone in the pulpit is tampering with the Godhead?

As we all know a heretic can be 95% right about the Bible but its the 5% of heresy that will carry a man to hell.

If someone is getting prophecies are they hearing from God if they hold to heretical doctrines?

I would think everything they say becomes suspect because the heresy can be interwoven into all their doctrines in some shape or form. Then why not their prophecies as well?

In these last days there will be great deceptions flowing through the church world.

22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

Anyway Jman, I think that anything Copeland, Hagin, or their followers have to say is suspect in itself.

Gary






Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10385 is a reply to message #10383 ] Mon, 25 November 2013 02:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Jman,

One more thing. I know this does not answer your question as well but I wondered about all these new doctrines appearing on the board. The white horse ministry is the latter day rain movement. Here is some information on the latter rain movement which is tied into the Lakeland revival movement:

Quote:

Latter Day Rain Movement

Colossians 2:8, 18-19 8"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

"18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God."

They being deceived will usher in the Religious Beast in Revelations. What do you think the Lakeland Revival was all about the awakening? Are you going to follow these evil men and their demonic ’Christ’ or are you going to follow Jesus Christ? How can this happen? Read Matthew 24:24. The revival was like a trumpet has sounded. Even though the revival is over, their agenda is not over but more excellerated to bring the church in apostasy. You are going to see more modalities come in. One way is through soaking music.

Are you having difficulty discerning or receiving this “new revelation”? Then perhaps you have been interpreting your Bible in the “old way” — comparing Scripture with Scripture, studying diligently to account for every jot and tittle and being careful to rightly divide the Word of truth. If this describes you, then you belong to the “Old Generation” which will not enter in to “possess the land” in the Latter Rain Revival.

It has been said to “dump all that carnal stuff” (doctrine) and listen to what the “spirit” is saying to the churches through the Latter Rain Prophets and Apostles, who are dispensing many “new, sacred truths.” Does that sound like new age movement? New Age believes in "Hidden Knowledge". Do you remember during the Lakeland Revival the Apostles and Prophet were criticizing the church for discerning and not listening to them? Did you hear them say the ones opposing the revival were full of the devil and are in pride?


I'm not trying to be an alarmist but I think I understand your concerns. I realize it still does not answer your question. New agers want to bring out hidden knowledge.

While there is nothing wrong with sharing past prophecies!!!
But when they are tied in with heretics, and new agers this is where I have concerns.

Jman I do apologize for begging the question, brother.

Gary










Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10387 is a reply to message #10385 ] Mon, 25 November 2013 02:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Amen, amen & amen, Gary.


Marilyn C
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10390 is a reply to message #10382 ] Mon, 25 November 2013 07:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wishing34  is currently offline wishing34
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Hi Gary,


As far as the JDS (Jesus Died Spiritually) heresy . . . I am not a Hagin expert at all, but I thought he had a respected
ministry for a while and then fell into JDS. I might be wrong on this though.

So I did not key on the JDS angle because possibly these prophecies happened before JDS came in.
As I say - I do not know Hagin well enough to know his time line.

---------------------------

I see problems based upon content of the prophecies.

What is our response to any prophet(ess) - not just what we have on these pages - when/if
they say something that is either un-Scriptural or something that does not come to pass?

Does not their prophetic gift have to be always correct? If not then how do we know when
they are making mistakes vs when they are speaking 'thus says the Lord?'

If we see something that is un-Scriptural or something that did not happen then do
we discount them as a real prophet(ess) as in Deut 18:20-22 ?





Jman





---sig------------------------------------------------------ ------------

At the time of this post . . .

FA, the satellites, the spinoffs,and the FA diaspora have been having church
without apostles for 41 years and 329 days.
Initial start date 1/1/72


Recommended: No faith stands that strongly impact our (our children's) lives until we figure out
why the signs and wonders are missing. Something is wrong.






Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10392 is a reply to message #10390 ] Mon, 25 November 2013 09:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Good questions, guys.

This is exactly why I put my disclaimer on here about not agreeing with the ministries who are talking about these prophecies.


I would have to do a timeline study on dates, etc. I know HEF broke away from these people due to JDS. I would like to think these prophecies were given before they believed JDS.

I also know that HEF referred to Sister Clara Grace's prophecies many times regarding his ministry. I believe someone mentioned that not all of her prophecies came to pass about HEF.

Does that mean we should not be influenced by HEF anymore? He certainly believed them. Why are we here on OO, then? Just throwing some questions out there, that's all.

About women teaching, I think William had some good points on that topic. Personally, I prophesied many times at FA. Did I teach? No. But, I know many women shared at the Women's meetings. I don't know what the difference would be. I really don't have a view on that. What is the difference between sharing and teaching? Is it OK when a woman is sharing to just women? If there is not a difference, June Freeman is in big trouble! I have one of her tapes on the music site of her teaching or sharing. Also, Edith Hill, Pam Hill, Kathy, and many other awesome sisters shared/taught.

I would not want to teach due to the greater judgment attached to it. I am already in enough hot water!! Laughing


Good points to ponder. Looking forward to what other's think.

[Updated on: Mon, 25 November 2013 18:19]


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10394 is a reply to message #10390 ] Mon, 25 November 2013 09:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Just so you all know... I'm only skimming the stuff in the eschatology and now the prophecy section for reasons that I've already given. It's going to be up to others to moderate!

I know why Paul was inspired to write: "Despise not prophesyings." 2Th 5:20

Punt!


Blessings,
William


I want to believe!
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10395 is a reply to message #10394 ] Mon, 25 November 2013 09:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Also, I don't have a problem removing anything that might be offensive to anyone.

Like I said, I thought about it, too. But, HEF talked about all of these prophecies listed. I would not even know about these utterings if HEF had not talked about them. He never had a problem with any of them.

[Updated on: Mon, 25 November 2013 09:53]


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10396 is a reply to message #10395 ] Mon, 25 November 2013 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Come to think of it, I believe June Freeman shared/taught the content of the tape on the music site at the Barn.

That would mean she shared in front of men and women.

[Updated on: Mon, 25 November 2013 10:58]


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10397 is a reply to message #10394 ] Mon, 25 November 2013 10:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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william wrote on Mon, 25 November 2013 09:45

It's going to be up to others to moderate!

I know why Paul was inspired to write: "Despise not prophesyings." 2Th 5:20

Punt!


Blessings,
William


OK, so here's my attempt at 'moderating'...Maybe those who have concerns about some of the posted 'prophecies' and or 'prophets' state which ones they have problems with and why; and since Gillyann has stated she had no problem with removing them, maybe she will...Or maybe she would like to respond as to why she feels they should remain.

Like William (or maybe not like William<grin>) I am personally not that interested in 'prophecies' over the last few generations...Biblical prophecies? Yes! But there were/are just too many people in the flesh(or maybe just mistaken) and too many personal interpretations of "thus sayeth The Lord" for me to place very much confidence in them.

Gary mentioned 'new doctrines' on the forum...I'm not sure these are doctrines as much as they are reflection of personal interpretations of scriptures.(I do certainly agree that JDS is heresy and also what Jman states about women teaching...whether someone else in the past let it slide or not based on respecting of who a person is or related to) While we're all allowed, amongest ourselves,freedom to chose what to believe concerning interpretation of scripture(such as differing views of Daniel's dreams or John's descriptions of what he saw in Revelation); ultimately we must answer to The Lord for how we individually received and rightly divide His Word.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10399 is a reply to message #10382 ] Mon, 25 November 2013 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wishing34  is currently offline wishing34
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James,


To me the key is if the prophetic messages are going to become
'thus saith the Lord' and placed equal to Scripture - to be used as proof texts.

---

I do not think anything needs be taken down unless it actually supports JDS - which
I have not noticed.


--


I think there is value in seeing what went before and what HEF and others were influenced by.

It literally is church history. William Branham was "king of the hill" in charasmatic circles in 1963 when
HEF became charasmatic (I think I have the date correct). It is very, very likely that HEF, as
the "new kid on the block," was influenced by Branham - who had been influenced by Schrader and
Grace- whose prophetic work is referenced in this thread.

It has been a while but I think this explains where we got
the "Manifestation of the Sons of God" teaching - through Schrader and Branham.


It took HEF about 5? years to quit mentioning Branham, Schrader, et al. over the pulpit.
( Am I not remembering correctly that Branham was not mentioned in at least the last 10 yrs of HEF's messages? )

So this seems relevant as far as I see it. Not that it is true prophecy but that it shows the mind set
of those who went before us including HEF to a degree.





Jman





---sig------------------------------------------------------ ------------

At the time of this post . . .

FA, the satellites, the spinoffs,and the FA diaspora have been having church
without apostles for 41 years and 329 days.
Initial start date 1/1/72


Recommended: No faith stands that strongly impact our (our children's) lives until we figure out
why the signs and wonders are missing. Something is wrong.









Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10400 is a reply to message #10382 ] Mon, 25 November 2013 15:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Jman,

Just a few thoughts concerning this topic. As you know we need to read all the scriptures pertaining to a topic otherwise we can make it say what we want. Here are a few scriptures on this topic -

`For by this time you (the Hebrews) ought to be teachers,....` (Heb. 5: 11)

`But when Priscilla (woman) & Aquila heard him, (Apollos) they took him aside & explained to him the way of God more accurately.` (Acts 18: 1, 26)

`Greet Prisca & Aquila, my fellow- workers in Christ Jesus.` (Rom. 16: 3)

`greet Andonicus & Junia (female) my kinsmen, & my fellow prisoners, who are outstanding among the apostles...` (Rom. 16: 7)

`Now this man had four virgin daughters who were prophetesses..` (Acts 21: 9)

Now it makes more sense when reading 1 Timothy 2: 12 to read -

`I do not permit a married woman to practice teaching or domineering over a husband.` (A New Testament; A translation in the language of the people. C.B. Williams)

`Domineering,` is the key word, or `lording it over,` which is the result of the `fall,` as women try to get `control.` On the other hand men need, by God`s grace to `soften,` & love their wives as Paul tells us in Ephesians. Paul is addressing in both writings the weaknesses of each & how to behave in the Holy Spirit. He is not saying that women cannot teach but is talking about the attitude of the women.

Marilyn.


Marilyn C
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10404 is a reply to message #10382 ] Mon, 25 November 2013 20:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wishing34  is currently offline wishing34
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Hi Marylin,

So that we are speaking the same language from opposite sides of the globe:

We think of "prophecying" as a person speaking for God in the first person - Ex: "My people I love you."
This is in a group setting and might go for only 5 seconds or maybe up to 5 minutes - norm is about 30 seconds.

We think of teaching as explaining the meaning and application of the Scriptures. This was done at virtually every
church meeting except prayer meetings. It would typically go from 45 minutes to 2 hours. Norm was 45 - 60 minutes.

I say this because some groups in the USA refer to what we call teaching as prophecying and it can be confusing.

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------

Our custom was that ONLY MALES would teach the entire assembly of men and women. ( How we applied I Tim 2:12 )
We had occasions where older women would teach the younger women and the children. ( How we applied Titus 2:4 )

( Faith Assembly people pipe in here - as far as I know from my church in different state, women NEVER taught the
Scriptures other than the topics allowed in Titus 2:4-5 - and then only to women. Am I correct? )

Anyone (male or female) was encouraged to discuss the Word one on one or in small groups at any time. ( could maybe be called 'teaching' )
Everyone was encouraged to evangalize to anyone - male or female.


Anyone whom the Holy Spirit gave a prophecy to was expected to speak it out to the church ( How we applied I Cor 11:5 - headcoverings were the norm for women)

------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------

So we had only male teachers to the whole church and women might 'teach' a male or a female as they fellowshipped in small
groups - picture around the supper table. Also women might teach the other women on the Titus 2:4 topics.
Anyone male or female would prophecy when given a prophecy.

========================================================
========================================================

Concerning your post.

Heb 5:11-12 - I do not see your point
Act 18:1, 26 - in small groups we had no problem with women sharing Scriptural concepts
Rom 16:3 helpers or fellow laborers does not mean fellow teachers nor fellow apostles

Rom 16:7 Greek scholars debate whether Junia is a man or a woman
______________see http://carm.org/junia-apostle
Rom 16:7 Scolars debate "of note" to mean "well known to the apostles" --- it is by no means clear that Junia was a female apostle
______________ see google search for "Romans 16:7 among"

Act 21:9 - four prophetesses is no problem





I Tim 2:12

You had:
Quote:


Now it makes more sense when reading 1 Timothy 2: 12 to read -

`I do not permit a married woman to practice teaching or domineering over a husband.` (A New Testament; A translation in the language of the people. C.B. Williams)

`Domineering,` is the key word, or `lording it over,` which is the result of the `fall,` as women try to get `control.` On the other hand men need, by God`s grace to `soften,` & love their wives as Paul tells us in Ephesians. Paul is addressing in both writings the weaknesses of each & how to behave in the Holy Spirit. He is not saying that women cannot teach but is talking about the attitude of the women.




The Greek uses the words "woman" and "man" not "married woman" and "husband." The Willaims translation did some opinionating there. Virtually all other translations
agree with the KJV in using "woman" and "man." The Williams translation is at odds with the other translations.

Therefore you cannot define the verse to apply only between a husband and a married woman. This is just not in the Greek. The Greek says "woman" and "man.'

-----------
Also consider the context. From verse 9 to 10 it is talking about a woman's behavior. I Tim 2:9-10
The context is universal, not limited to within the marriage. It is for all women not just "married women."

Then in verse I Tim 2:11 it commands the women to learn in all subjection - the very opposite to what you are saying.

Then in I Tim2:12 it continues ( KJV "But" could be translated "Moreover" ) the same thought from vs 11. - again, it is just the opposite of what you are saying.

Then in verse I Tim 2:13-14 Paul gives the reason why - because Eve was decieved.

-----

The entire context is a prooftext that women are not allowed to teach.



=========================================
=========================================

Note that as I describe above there is no problem with you sharing/teaching what
you see from the Scriptures here on the forum. This is like a bunch of believers
discussing things in a small group.

But if you claim the Eph 4:11 ministry of teacher that would not be accepted by most here.











Jman





---sig------------------------------------------------------ ------------

At the time of this post . . .

FA, the satellites, the spinoffs,and the FA diaspora have been having church
without apostles for 41 years and 329 days.
Initial start date 1/1/72


Recommended: No faith stands that strongly impact our (our children's) lives until we figure out
why the signs and wonders are missing. Something is wrong.















Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10406 is a reply to message #10404 ] Mon, 25 November 2013 21:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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"Faith Assembly, pipe in here...."


I agree. This is how FA operated.


"Then in verse I Tim 2:11 it commands the women to learn in all subjection - the very opposite to what you are saying."


Like Marilyn suggested, the man is not to "lord it over" women. If the man is not accountable for being Christ like when the woman is being "subjective," it can, and did, allow for abuse and disrespect towards women due to misinterpretation or application itself. This attitude is still the mindset of many men today. But, I digress.

Women were not suppose to teach. Women were to submit to their husbands.







[Updated on: Tue, 26 November 2013 05:26]


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10407 is a reply to message #10404 ] Mon, 25 November 2013 21:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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wishing34 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2013 20:40


Our custom was that ONLY MALES would teach the entire assembly of men and women. ( How we applied I Tim 2:12 )
We had occasions where older women would teach the younger women and the children. ( How we applied Titus 2:4 )

( Faith Assembly people pipe in here - as far as I know from my church in different state, women NEVER taught the
Scriptures other than the topics allowed in Titus 2:4-5 - and then only to women. Am I correct? )

Anyone (male or female) was encouraged to discuss the Word one on one or in small groups at any time. ( could maybe be called 'teaching' )
Everyone was encouraged to evangalize to anyone - male or female.


Anyone whom the Holy Spirit gave a prophecy to was expected to speak it out to the church ( How we applied I Cor 11:5 - headcoverings were the norm for women)

------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------

So we had only male teachers to the whole church and women might 'teach' a male or a female as they fellowshipped in small
groups - picture around the supper table. Also women might teach the other women on the Titus 2:4 topics.
Anyone male or female would prophecy when given a prophecy.

========================================================



Yes, that is an accurate portrayal of the facts. As far as I remember a woman never taught anything from the pulpit. There may have been an exception concerning a woman giving a testimony from behind the pulpit but if there was, I don't remember it.

June Freeman and others conducted women-only meetings at various places but I don't ever remember that happening at FA proper.

Blessings,
William


I want to believe!
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10408 is a reply to message #10404 ] Mon, 25 November 2013 21:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Jman,

What a very detailed response you gave. Very good.

The Heb.5: 12 message is that those Christians should have been teachers of the word but were needing someone to come & teach them again.

However that aside I see you are referring to the 5 fold ministries, Apostle, Prophet, Teacher, Shepherd, Evangelist. I was brought up to believe that these were just men, however over time I have come to believe they are women also.


The `submissiveness` is not as we think of just doing what the other person says. The Gk. word `hupotsaao` means to obey, & that is Gk. `hupakoe,` which has the meaning of `attentive listening.` To listen attentively means that the person has to understand & discern whether the words are in line with scripture, morally right etc. Attentive, & not passive.


Also when I mentioned prophesying, I did not mean teaching as I know(as you) that people often say they are the same. The point I was referring to, is that woman were gifted of God for prophesying, teaching, evangelising etc.


The difference I see in anyone teaching truths from God`s word & the Teacher (of the 5 fold) is God`s purpose. We should all be teaching our disciples truths of Christ especially applicable to everyday living. The Teacher of Eph. 4 is given to the Body of Christ however,to bring forth teaching pertaining to foundational doctrines thus building up the Body & equipping them to go & share/teach others. Each, through their own individual giftings - some quietly through helps, others relating to the everyday person, while others through care & compassion etc.

Blessing Marilyn.


Marilyn C
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10409 is a reply to message #10382 ] Mon, 25 November 2013 22:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wishing34  is currently offline wishing34
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Hi Marylin,


You mentioned "We should all be teaching our disciples."
I think??? (I am not sure ) I recall you mentioning that your disciples had their own disciples.

I am not used to thinking about believers having disciples of their own.

Please tell more about this.

======================

Since I do not like to blindside people . . .

do a google search for "Shepherdship movement"

If that is similar to your discipling organization then be ready
for a big negative reaction around here.

=======================





Jman





---sig------------------------------------------------------ ------------

At the time of this post . . .

FA, the satellites, the spinoffs,and the FA diaspora have been having church
without apostles for 41 years and 329 days.
Initial start date 1/1/72


Recommended: No faith stands that strongly impact our (our children's) lives until we figure out
why the signs and wonders are missing. Something is wrong.








Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10410 is a reply to message #10409 ] Mon, 25 November 2013 23:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
Messages: 532
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Jman,

Rest assured my husband & I are not part of any `Shepherding movement.` I have heard of them how back in the `80`s they brought people to themselves & `lorded it over` them. Still goes on today in some organisations.

But no. My husband & I have by the Lord related to people, taught them what we had been taught & helped them to learn to discern error. I have taught in groups but the Lord has led me to teach I on I or a couple, & then help them to work with their relationships in everyday life. That is the step that I see has been missing in people`s lives, someone to help you as you reach out to others. Probably like a parent helping their children with their children. Obviously then those disciples, people we have mentored are now peers who inpart to us also & together we discern & share God`s word & wisdom for situations & life in general.


Hope that explains it for you. I appreciate being able to share how God has us operate. I so enjoy hearing how the people I have helped are now helping others & in some cases their disciples are reaching out to others, & so it goes on in ever spreading waves.


We also encourage those we have mentored to have a few mature people that they have known, to continue to relate to them also.
We relate & have good fellowship with people of different denominations as well and relationships that are not in formal organisations also.

Blessings, Marilyn.



Marilyn C
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10414 is a reply to message #10410 ] Tue, 26 November 2013 11:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Marilyn,

When I refered to people saying "thus sayeth The Lord" I wasn't refering to or thinking of you or the prophesy/exhortation you posted on "The Higher Life". We've had people saying "Thus sayeth The Lord" in our assemblies for years and it's been proven with time that it wasn't "Thus sayeth The Lord". Some never figured out the difference between prophecy and exhortation/encouragement/admonishment.
The only thing about the posting that caugh my eye was the title, "The Higher Life", at first I thought it reminded me of a beer comercial(Miller High Life), but don't take that as being flipant or disrespectful, it's just my inital reaction<grin>(and no, I'm not a beer drinker Smile)

I think this is 'flowing' along well, and doesn't need or require any 'moderating' at this point. Jman expresses most (some?)of our thoughts concerning women teaching and expresses it quite well, imo. I too don't consider the forum to be equal to a gathering of saints(assembly/church) and welcome EVERYONE sharing God's Word and edifying one another. Gary expressed a good point, we aren't required to read/believe/agree with anything posted here, so I see no problem as long as we all respect each others views and allow each other some slack...after all, The Lord sure has allowed us plenty of room to grow over the years.


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10415 is a reply to message #10414 ] Tue, 26 November 2013 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Well this has been very interesting after rereading all the posts.
I was thinking that in the scriptures when they mention John the Baptist they invariably speak also of John's disciples.

I think what everyone has to realize is that Marilyn is not American and in other countries they do use different terminology then what we use because of their culture.

I don't see how we can hold people in other lands to our way of thinking as the only right way. I am talking about using words that have a total different meaning to us. If those who live in Australia say we are working with our disciples it may just be the way they look at things. John had disciples and it goes to reason that if we have someone who we are mentoring in the Lord that technically they could be called our disciples.

As we know America is not the center of the universe and people from other cultures do not think like us nor use our same terminology. This is all new to have someone from a foreign land sharing what happened to them and what their Grandparents were shown.

I think its good for us from FA to realize God is even bigger then what we all can imagine, and He does have people in other lands that He can speak to as well as to us.

Just my opinion here. Cool

Gary
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10416 is a reply to message #10414 ] Tue, 26 November 2013 15:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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James,

Yes I had a chuckle too for in our culture now the `high life,` is living it up. I took no offence at the `thus saith the Lord,` but thought I needed to explain how it was back then. (& yes I do like a glass of wine, for the stomach`s sake of course. Rolling Eyes )

About the different prophecies I see that even though I don`t agree with some, I have the opportunity to speak what I see as error & so as Gary said people can make up their own mind.


Gary,

Thank you for the room to be Australian re our different language expressions etc. I also am pleased to hear what God has & is doing through you all as it also enlarges my understanding & appreciation of our Lord.

Concerning the term `my disciples,` how do you in America refer to the disciples you are mentoring? (little sis? little bro? Laughing)





[Updated on: Tue, 26 November 2013 16:48]


Marilyn C
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10417 is a reply to message #10416 ] Wed, 27 November 2013 04:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Quote:

Concerning the term `my disciples,` how do you in America refer to the disciples you are mentoring? (little sis? little bro? Laughing)


To be honest we don't make disciples and that is why that term sounds "foreign" to us.

Mainly at FA we were taught how to use our "doctrinal error attacking skills" on others. Of course I am being facetious but there is a measure of truth there as well.

I have been thinking about this whole concept since it came up. I had to dash to town last night on the way there I was thinking about what Jesus said, "Go make disciples".

Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,


I have had better success going to foreign lands and reaching the lost then here in this country. My wife has led a number of people to the Lord. But she takes the time and befriends people and has influenced more then me to come to the Lord. She still ministers to people she has led to the Lord on a regular basis, I guess we could say these our her disciples. I have been striving to do this more myself and that is befriend people no matter what their state in life and then influence them to Christ.

We men like to proudly tell everyone that women should be silent in churches but to be truthful I see women doing more in Christ in this country and abroad.

I was just reading the other day before this conversation even come up and these scriptures leaped out at me:

Mark 16:40 There were also women looking on from afar, among whom were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the Less and of Joses, and Salome, 41 who also followed Him and ministered to Him when He was in Galilee, and many other women who came up with Him to Jerusalem.

I was thinking at the time it was women who were there for Jesus while He was going through all of this suffering on the cross.

Anyway I know its a sad commentary but I don't know of anyone who has led many to the Lord. (When Jesus told us that the fields were white for harvest). I always hear many say were planting seeds or watering but basically that could be seen as a cop out.

So, Is this a practice in Australia among the brothers and sisters there to reach the lost and then personally disciple them one on one? If that is the case maybe we can learn something from you guys on this as well.

Gary

One more thing I like what Andrew Strom closed his board out with this time:

If you read too much into it you will start a war over nothing.

“Devouring one another” is a big danger on forums.













[Updated on: Wed, 27 November 2013 04:21]

Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10418 is a reply to message #10409 ] Wed, 27 November 2013 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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wishing34 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2013 22:45


======================

Since I do not like to blindside people . . .

=======================



This is a great insightful comment! It took a day or so for it to sink into my thick head but I woke up this morning thinking about it. It sure beats the frog-gigger's mentality --blinding 'em with the light while skewering 'em from the darkness!


Blessings,
William


I want to believe!
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10420 is a reply to message #10406 ] Wed, 27 November 2013 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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GWB wrote on Mon, 25 November 2013 21:10



"Faith Assembly, pipe in here...."


I agree. This is how FA operated.


"Then in verse I Tim 2:11 it commands the women to learn in all subjection - the very opposite to what you are saying."


Like Marilyn suggested, the man is not to "lord it over" women. If the man is not accountable for being Christ like when the woman is being "subjective," it can, and did, allow for abuse and disrespect towards women due to misinterpretation or application itself. This attitude is still the mindset of many men today. But, I digress.

Women were not suppose to teach. Women were to submit to their husbands.




GWB,

That was carried to an extreme. But I think its common place in most pentecostal type groups for some reason.

Gary







Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10421 is a reply to message #10417 ] Wed, 27 November 2013 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Gary,

Thank you for your interest in `discipling.` I will put some thoughts together later as I am off today discipling/mentoring, my great joy. I think I will ask William for another (another Rolling Eyes) category for discipling as I think it is too important a topic to get lost in another thread. It may develop & the Lord open up different thoughts from people & we learn to encourage & help each other in this.

A couple of scriptures to meditate on meanwhile -
John 17: 9 & 2 Tim. 2: 2.


Marilyn C
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10422 is a reply to message #10421 ] Wed, 27 November 2013 16:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Gary,

Sad, but true.




Marilyn,

A new thread on that topic is a good idea. Thanks for suggesting it. Smile


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10423 is a reply to message #10422 ] Wed, 27 November 2013 17:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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GWB wrote on Wed, 27 November 2013 16:43

Gary,

Sad, but true.




Marilyn,

A new thread on that topic is a good idea. Thanks for suggesting it. Smile


GWB,

I had a good laugh here, thinking its always nice when the Australians redesign the board. LOL

You guys got big plans tomorrow, I guess I'm going to work and then take off Friday. Were going to our Nieces this year for dinner. It seems strange just yesterday she was a little girl now she's married with children. Life goes by so fast anymore.

Lord Bless,
Gary









Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10424 is a reply to message #10423 ] Wed, 27 November 2013 19:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
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Yea, right?!? New blood from down under! Love it!


Also, Marilyn puts up with all of us!!! lol lol HA!


I am having dinner with my kids and grandkids. We do get together a lot anyway. Bavarian bread in the oven now. So blessed and thankful. Smile

[Updated on: Wed, 27 November 2013 19:32]


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10425 is a reply to message #10424 ] Thu, 28 November 2013 02:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Quote:

Yea, right?!? New blood from down under! Love it!


New Blood! LOL, sometimes were like a bunch of tigers with a piece of raw meat.


Quote:

Also, Marilyn puts up with all of us!!! lol lol HA!



I see what you mean. Its almost kind of humorous.

Someone uses a "word" in a sentence and then we shine a big spot light in their eyes, and act like, you must be in a cult why are you using this "word" in your conversation. Laughing

In our quest to stay with the Word of God we lost something in being able to reach out to others. Jesus went out to sinners, samaritans, tax collectors, He did not let it stop Him, etc.

May God finish the work He began in us.

I have never had Bavarian Bread it sounds good, my wife and I both like crusty bread, like Ciabatta. Better not say anymore here, we may have a cooking category next. Very Happy I was on a Christian site once that had a game room, at the time it sounded korney, but who knows. Cool

Lord Bless your day with the kids,
Gary Cool











Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10427 is a reply to message #10425 ] Thu, 28 November 2013 02:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marilyn Crow  is currently offline Marilyn Crow
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Gary & Gillyann,

I do like the sound of that Bavarian Bread. Save us a piece Gillyann. Do you make it? I make my own bread, Aussia style????
I so laughed & laughed & thought good idea Gary a cooking category.

I don`t think you are carnivorous or cultish.

Quote:

`a bunch of tigers with a piece of raw meat.`



Quote:

`we shine a big spot light in their eyes, and act like, you must be in a cult why are you using this "word" in your conversation.`



Perhaps we can all have a `cult` cleaning day. But jokes aside I do want to thank everyone for being so patient with a `gate crasher,` in your group. You have all been so gracious to give me room, to hear me out, to accept my cultural & historic differences. We are all `iron sharpening iron.`

Enjoy your week ends every one. I am over at a friends waiting for the cherries to ripen & not let the birds get them.

Love to all, Marilyn.









Marilyn C
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10433 is a reply to message #10427 ] Thu, 28 November 2013 09:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Marilyn Crow wrote on Thu, 28 November 2013 02:44


[Enjoy your week ends every one. I am over at a friends waiting for the cherries to ripen & not let the birds get them.

Love to all, Marilyn.


I'm picturing Marilyn patiently sitting in a cherry orchard with a box of firecrackers, tossing them at the 'birds' as they try to gather food for their poor babies. Laughing You're interrupting Gods' providing for them (Matt.6:26) Sad

Marilyn, please don't traumatize the Cockatoos and Cockatiels, Americans pay big bucks for them as pets.

Don't everyone start digging out their favorite recipes just yet, there's already a Food Network forum....LOL

Birmingham, Alabama set a new record low for Thanksgiving Day today, it was 18 degrees here at dawn. It takes dedication to get out and walk in this...or stupidity.<grin>

Oh, by the way, some people refer to 'their disciples' as knuckleheads .........that's a joke

Sorry Jman for turning your thread away from the discussion, but hey, that seems to be the norm now. Rolling Eyes but I don't know anything about Clara Grace to discuss.

[Updated on: Thu, 28 November 2013 09:37]


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10434 is a reply to message #10382 ] Thu, 28 November 2013 10:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wishing34  is currently offline wishing34
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Gary,

You adopted a critical attitude regarding my question to Marylin.


You said:
Quote:


Someone uses a "word" in a sentence and then we shine a big spot light in their eyes, and act like, you must be in a cult why are you using this "word" in your conversation.



You even had a laughing/mocking emoticon "face thingy"

You misrepresent the tone of how I asked Marylin the question.

=========================

I went back and found Marylin's previous post that I alluded to above when I asked her that question
about having her own disciple.
( Home Discussion Area Coffee Break The Harlot Church System, "Come Out of Her, My People - page 2)

Here is Marylin's post that I had barely recalled when I asked the question:

Quote:


My husband, Trevor & myself married in our `30`s & never had any children but
we are blessed with many spiritual children & spiritual grandchildren as the Lord
has led us to develop a relational network of people. Many are now peers & we
labour together to build relationships & see what the Lord would have for that person





spiritual children & spiritual grandchildren
relational network of people
peers? some believers are peers, apparently others are not


Maybe it just looks odd solely due to cultural differences, maybe there is more.




1) Please go up and re-read my question and note I did not base it on only one word.

2) Could my question have possibly been asked in a more ethical manner?

Notice I did not use a laughing emoticon on her - to the contrary I warned
her about the issue in play so she could understand how her answer might
be received.


=======================


Jman


---sig------------------------------------------------------ ------------

At the time of this post . . .

FA, the satellites, the spinoffs,and the FA diaspora have been having church
without apostles for 41 years and 332 days.
Initial start date 1/1/72


Recommended: No faith stands that strongly impact our (our children's) lives until we figure out
why the signs and wonders are missing. Something is wrong.






Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10435 is a reply to message #10409 ] Thu, 28 November 2013 14:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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wishing34 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2013 22:45

Hi Marylin,


You mentioned "We should all be teaching our disciples."
I think??? (I am not sure ) I recall you mentioning that your disciples had their own disciples.

I am not used to thinking about believers having disciples of their own.

Please tell more about this.

======================

Since I do not like to blindside people . . .

do a google search for "Shepherdship movement"

If that is similar to your discipling organization then be ready
for a big negative reaction around here.


=======================
Jman



Hi Jman,

To be honest I get the impression your trying to find something wrong with Marilyns doctrines or beliefs.

You may not be purposely doing this but a number of posts you sound like your slamming anything shared.

In this post above your using this word discipling implying she may be into the shepherdship error. I don't understand her use as well but I don't assume she is involved in this group.

It's just that people in other countries do not think like us or use the same terms as us. Whether its calling something symbols or having disciples.

I did not understand this either, but then I remembered John had disciples, also the word says go make disciples. Is this for men only or for women as well? It says teaching them all things. How can a women lead someone to the Lord without giving them instruction and teaching them what is in the word?

I think also that we can learn from them (Australian brethren), what God has showed them as they can learn what the Lord has showed us. I don't believe one church has it all, were a body of believers covering the whole world.

I do apologize if you are not intentionally trying to attack someone who is different then us, and I am misunderstanding your posts. I have not heard any doctrinal error or heresy coming forth. I invited Marilyn here and some others who I felt had a heart for the Lord. I thought it would be good for all of us to be involved with other Christians who love God. I have found the brothers and sisters in other countries do want all Jesus has for them.

As for everyone bringing up the scripture that women should not teach I was thinking about this today. I felt like the Lord showed me if men believe this scripture that women should not teach then they are guilty of not obeying the word if they go and read what someone is teaching. Its not the woman's fault that she would share something but for a man to go and listen anyway, he is guilty if he does not believe a woman should be teaching men.

This board is not a church but a public forum where the sisters can speak freely as well. I don't feel that them sharing something from the Lord is wrong. On the other hand, I don't like people twisting the scriptures as much as you do but somewhere we have to learn to share by the Spirit and reach those out there who may be in error.

Anyway I am glad you mentioned this I need to get to know you better as well, feel free to correct me anytime I get off. I need all the correction I can get. I will not be offended when someone tells me something I need to correct. Like James once said to me, be kind when you do it.

I hope Jman you understand this in the right spirit of things, just trying to share with you what I thought was going on. I pray all is well between us.

I do think I have seen a very Christ like attitude in all the regulars here. I read a post the other day on "What happened" concerning the big blow out that took place here. I felt bad after reading it concerning what happened but was glad everyone tried to understand. Hombre was a close friend back in the beginning who lived across the street from me. I naturally sided with him but looking back I wished we could of all approached everything differently. I wished he was still here as well. I'm sorry for any confusion on my part we have to live and learn. The devil got in there and had a hay-day. Anyway thinks for understanding and being kind, I'm still a work in progress.

Lord Bless you Brother,
Gary














Re: Clara Grace teaching the believers and I Tim 2:12 [message #10437 is a reply to message #10435 ] Thu, 28 November 2013 19:07 Go to previous message
GWB  is currently offline GWB
Messages: 713
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Location: Louisville, Ky area
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A critical attitude and being unkind when correcting among former FA people???? No waaaayyyyyy!!!!! Lol lol HA ....tongue in cheek.


I am glad we are all working on this. There is no way we can reach out and evangelize in love unless we have a right attitude towards each other.


We can be so very hard on each other, sometimes (myself included.)

Hombre would be welcomed back by me anyway. I hold no hard feelings. Smile It has been a blessing having Cool back, Gary! Lol lol

OK, back on track.


Shalom,

GWB

"Be still and know that I am God."
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