Home » Theological Doctrine » NT Theology » Gleanings from the "Gospels"
| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11820 is a reply to message #11819] |
Sun, 18 October 2015 12:41   |
 james
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Location: Birmingham, AL |
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Sorry Gary, I guess I shouldn't have posted that since I wasn't willing to share the context of the conversation. The writer of that which I quoted wasn't speaking at all about doctrine of scripture as revealed by The Holy Spirit but rather 'pet doctrines' of various groups of believers(also known as denominations) that try to constantly push their 'doctrines' onto others, insisting that they alone 'have the truth'...Sound familiar?
He was gently rebuking someone and encouraging at the same time to not just 'talk' but 'do', by the example of our lives. Strong faith comes by not just reading The Bible but by living out what we're taught....that's the whole context of the admonition to be doers of The Word and not hearers only. It's a deception to believe that just by reading and hearing we're obeying The Lord; He tells us to apply it, live it, share it....and how we do that will be the example others will see...Christ like actions and life or empty words without godly actions.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11821 is a reply to message #11820] |
Sun, 18 October 2015 15:13 |
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Gary
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Location: Indiana |
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| james wrote on Sun, 18 October 2015 08:41 |
Sorry Gary, I guess I shouldn't have posted that since I wasn't willing to share the context of the conversation. The writer of that which I quoted wasn't speaking at all about doctrine of scripture as revealed by The Holy Spirit but rather 'pet doctrines' of various groups of believers(also known as denominations) that try to constantly push their 'doctrines' onto others, insisting that they alone 'have the truth'...Sound familiar?
He was gently rebuking someone and encouraging at the same time to not just 'talk' but 'do', by the example of our lives. Strong faith comes by not just reading The Bible but by living out what we're taught....that's the whole context of the admonition to be doers of The Word and not hearers only. It's a deception to believe that just by reading and hearing we're obeying The Lord; He tells us to apply it, live it, share it....and how we do that will be the example others will see...Christ like actions and life or empty words without godly actions.
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Hi James,
Your okay, don't feel like you have to apologize for things you post. Were only chatting here because we all love the Lord.
As for being doers of the word and not hearers, There's an old song by Keith Green, that goes, "you love My Word, but your avoiding Me". Just throwing out thoughts here thinking about what you wrote, I'm not trying to insinuate anything. I see what you were trying to say though. I think for the most part people (humanity) have good intentions. Once someone is saved there is so much zeal that a person wants to do anything to please the Lord. You know throw away the tennis shoes, logo shirts, and guns, etc.
If they would of told us, we all need to jump off a cliff we would of ran out and jumped. LOL Why? because we were so excited to find hope of a future and that God was there for us and we wanted to please Him for what He did.
All things work together for our good, including our past failures. If God be for us who can be against us.
I was thinking though, that the devil and the world are trying to silence Christians, and then those in the system (the liberal part of the system), are trying to silence Christians because were the only thing standing in their way. Its the Spirit in us that is preventing total chaos in this world. When He, the Spirit of God is removed it will be a terrible time here.
The world is trying to make it look like they love all people and are here to protect their rights no matter what sin they choose to live in. Just because a Christian says that certain sins are against the Bible, the world is making it look like were uncaring or unloving towards others.
The point is God is the one who made the rules not us. In the garden it was just a simple do not eat of that one tree over there.
The fact is that as believers we are not under any law, were free in Christ. For example, smoking Cuban cigars, drinking in moderation, is not a sin, but it some situations it may not be expedient. My Mother would go ballistic on that concept but it was how she was taught. I thought that way one time also, but now I'm trying to see what the Bible does say and are we perceiving it correctly. They (my mom and aunts), tried to say one time that Jesus did not change the water into wine but it was grape juice. I "thought" everybody at the wedding must of been pretty wiped out, not to know the difference. Not trying to start a wine tasting club here but making a point about pet peeve doctrines.
If we're walking in the Spirit we will be striving for the things of the Spirit not of the things of the flesh.
I guess its easy to fall into the trap as we all know, of making pet doctrines that we feel if we obey these rules we can float along, and think were pleasing God. Maybe its the flesh wanting some easy route.
I don't have all the answers but I have been trying to see what Jesus said, and make sense of it all.
Guess what, I noticed Jesus when He ministered to large crowds would always set down to minister, while they were left standing. I don't know if that doctrine (teaching) would be received too well these days but hey, its something to think about. Let's get all the deacons together and let them know the new plans, 
Gary
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11833 is a reply to message #11821] |
Sat, 31 October 2015 10:25 |
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Gary
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Location: Indiana |
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21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. 23 Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 27 Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.
28 “But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down at his feet[d] and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
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Jesus is clearly teaching here that if we don't forgive our brothers that our sins will not be forgiven either. "So will my heavenly Father do to you".
Read the parable in the context this is shared and its quite clear if we cannot forgive others for what they have done to us, we cannot be forgiven. It's easy to talk religion but putting Christianity into our daily lives is another ballgame.
Can we forgive others? Probably the hardest thing to deal with in life is people with their natural abrasive attitudes.
In spite of what many think, what Jesus the Son of God says; is the reality for the Christian who desires to do His Will.
The servant in this parable was forgiven his sin and excused from his debt but he could not forgive a man who owed him a lessor amount and he showed no mercy on this man. I'm sure the first servant felt justified in what he said and did to his fellow man. But the King who forgave his debt felt otherwise and so did all the other servants who saw him treat his brother with condemnation.
If we want Mercy and Grace in our lives then we are called to show it to others. For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.
Gary
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11839 is a reply to message #11833] |
Tue, 03 November 2015 09:26 |
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Gary
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Location: Indiana |
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Its interesting that Jesus prays basically the same prayer three times. To know that they are getting ready to crucify you and that you had the power to stop it but knew it had to be done, caused great distress for the Lord.
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36 Then Jesus came with them to a place called Gethsemane, and said to the disciples, “Sit here while I go and pray over there.” 37 And He took with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and He began to be sorrowful and deeply distressed. 38 Then He said to them, “My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death. Stay here and watch with Me.”
39 He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will.”
40 Then He came to the disciples and found them sleeping, and said to Peter, “What! Could you not watch with Me one hour? 41 Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
42 Again, a second time, He went away and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if this cup cannot pass away from Me unless I drink it, Your will be done.” 43 And He came and found them asleep again, for their eyes were heavy.
44 So He left them, went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words. 45 Then He came to His disciples and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of sinners. 46 Rise, let us be going. See, My betrayer is at hand.”
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I don't think the disciples had a clue what was taking place even after Jesus told them repeatedly what was going to happen.
Not my will but your will O Lord. Jesus asked, if it is possible let this cup pass from me, but your will be done and not mine. Again He adds in the second prayer, if this cup cannot pass from me, unless I drink it your will be done.
Very trying time I don't think any man would allow himself to go through this situation, if a man had the choice, he would of probably took the easy route. Do we choose the things of the Spirit or the things of the flesh? This life with its riches and its pleasures is alluring and deceitful. The Son of God chose and was willing to lay down His life for all mankind.
This is why in heaven we see:
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Revelation 5:1-5
5 And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. 2 Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?” 3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it.
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No one in heaven or earth or under the earth was worthy to open the scroll or even to look at it.
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4 So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it. 5 But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”
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Jesus the Lamb of God prevailed and was worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.
Jesus prevailed in the Garden of Gethsemane, by praying not my will but Your will be done, giving Himself so others could enter in by the shedding of His precious blood.
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11840 is a reply to message #11839] |
Tue, 03 November 2015 15:11 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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What wonderful news, good news, great news that Jesus gave up of Himself through more pain and suffering than we could ever know in order that we could be reconciled unto God. We have received this message(The Gospel) through God's Word. David spoke of hoping in His Word in Psalms 130:5. We're reminded by Paul in Romans 8:24-25 about our hope in Christ. We have been blessed more than we really know in being able to hear, read, and have the Gospel in our midst, many people don't.
The man over the largest missionary force in the world (International Mission Board, David Platt) Sunday shared what the mission and vision is for getting the Gospel unto those groups of people who have never even heard of Jesus Christ. He pointed out how many, many people are born, live, and die without ever hearing of God's love and plan of reconciliation through Christ. In sharing the call to go and make disciples of all nations, he also pointed out that if the 'good news' doesn't get there in time(before one passes from this life without ever hearing the gospel), then it's not good news for them.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11841 is a reply to message #11840] |
Wed, 04 November 2015 10:42 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
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| james wrote on Tue, 03 November 2015 10:11 |
What wonderful news, good news, great news that Jesus gave up of Himself through more pain and suffering than we could ever know in order that we could be reconciled unto God. We have received this message(The Gospel) through God's Word. David spoke of hoping in His Word in Psalms 130:5. We're reminded by Paul in Romans 8:24-25 about our hope in Christ. We have been blessed more than we really know in being able to hear, read, and have the Gospel in our midst, many people don't.
The man over the largest missionary force in the world (International Mission Board, David Platt) Sunday shared what the mission and vision is for getting the Gospel unto those groups of people who have never even heard of Jesus Christ. He pointed out how many, many people are born, live, and die without ever hearing of God's love and plan of reconciliation through Christ. In sharing the call to go and make disciples of all nations, he also pointed out that if the 'good news' doesn't get there in time(before one passes from this life without ever hearing the gospel), then it's not good news for them.
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I just heard the report that now in America there are more people who do not believe there is a God then in the last poll done over 10 years ago.
They went on to say that only 63% attend church regularly but believe you can reach God through other mediums, such as yoga, zen buddhism, and meditation. The truth is the church has denied the power of God and the Baptism of the Spirit and has resorted to other methods to reach the lost.
Most in this country are not drawn to the church's new form of entertainment so they follow the popular practices that the media promotes such as yoga, tai chi, etc.
Paul states:
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3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?—
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He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does he do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
The truth is there are no miracles nor the power of God to draw people to Christ. The good news that most are preaching is that they have medical supplies, with their Christmas and Easter blessings, and they need money to keep themselves afloat. A distorted Gospel is being preached that does not reflect the Word of God.
Whenever you sign up for these peoples news letters you quickly find that you receive endless letters telling of their need for money to carry on the work. My mail box is flooded with letters telling of all kinds of gimmicks which they need money for.
Think about how many people set and listen to sermons each week, hear a few specials, throw some money in the basket as it passes by and then runs to a restaurant after the service to talk about sports.
How many are actively trying to reach the lost? or are they letting someone else do it and think its a nice sermon he gave?
This goes on more then what we would like to believe and that's why many in this country are turning from the church world and going after strange gods, through their yoga, and zen buddhism. I know quite a few individuals involved in yoga who profess to know Christ.
When you see them with their legs crossed and their hands in a certain pose, this is called "Mudras".
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A mudra (Listeni/muːˈdrɑː/; Sanskrit mudrā, "seal", "mark", or "gesture"; Tibetan: ཕྱག་རྒྱ་ THL chakgya) is a symbolic or ritual gesture in Hinduism and Buddhism. While some mudras involve the entire body, most are performed with the hands and fingers. A mudrā is a spiritual gesture and an energetic seal of authenticity employed in the iconography and spiritual practice of Indian religions.
One hundred and eight mudras are used in regular Tantric rituals.
In yoga, mudras are used in conjunction with pranayama (yogic breathing exercises), generally while seated in Padmasana, Sukhasana or Vajrasana pose, to stimulate different parts of the body involved with breathing and to affect the flow of prana in the body.
The classical sources for the mudras in yoga are the Gheranda Samhita and the Hatha Yoga Pradipika.[7] The Hatha Yoga Pradipika states the importance of mudras in yoga practice:
Therefore the goddess sleeping at the entrance of Brahma's door should be constantly aroused with all effort, by performing mudra thoroughly.
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The other problem is that David Platt is into Calvinism.
The thing with David Platt is that he as a Calvinist is known for promoting Calvinistic views:
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While some agreed with him,(speaking of David Platt and one of his recent controversies), others couldn't avoid what they saw as the underpinnings of his remarks – Calvinism. Some thought Platt voiced opposition to the "sinner's prayer" because as a Calvinist, he didn't want the hopeless unelect to think they are saved through a simple prayer.
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The church is in a mess and as I said earlier has lost the Power of God and has resorted to any and every method to appear like something is happening, when the fact is that most in this country is turning away from Christ and are following strange doctrines.
Most are carrying their brand of doctrines to peoples in other lands and many never hear or know of the power of God is for today and not just something that happened a long time ago. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He is the one who says that those who believe will speak with new tongues. But because many reject what Jesus says and try to reinterpret it, we see a gospel being preached with no power to confirm the Word.
Gary
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11842 is a reply to message #11841] |
Wed, 04 November 2015 16:01 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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I'm not going to defend David Platt or Calvinism, but I'd just always assumed we were all pretty much in agreement on most of the teachings of John Calvin concerning the TULIP points. I thought outside of "Limited Atonement" (L) we believed his other points. Sometimes refered to as 4-point Calvinist.
I certainly believe Platt doesn't agree with 'limited atonement' or he wouldn't be so zealous to make known Jesus unto all nations and peoples.
So with what teachings of Calvin do you disagree?
[Updated on: Wed, 04 November 2015 16:06]
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11845 is a reply to message #11843] |
Thu, 05 November 2015 00:52 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
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Location: Indiana |
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My apologies for jumping the gun, a number of articles I have read state Platt's view leans towards Calvinism, but trying to find where they are getting their information I am having trouble finding.
It does appear from what small amount of information I have found that he leans towards a legalistic view of evangelism. Most ministries tend to lock into some pet peeve doctrine and try to enforce the message in every sermon or at least most of the sermons they preach.
Then again all of this information I'm getting this from the internet as well, and it sounds like I've heard it before somewhere. I need to look further into what this Brother is sharing here. On some of the subjects I read, that he quoted, I had thought the same thing concerning others salvation but thought who was I to question another persons experience. Can we judge others by how they carry themselves in this world? There must be some type of judging going on or how would you discern anything by their fruits?
For example, if they say they know the Lord, but have no fruit or any interest in spiritual things, are they just babes in Christ who have been taught incorrectly or have they just had some religious experience and never met the Lord, and maybe their not Christians except in name only.
Let's face it every ones experience is different in some respect when we come to the Lord. But somewhere down the road you'll be convicted of what you allow in your life and start changing. By this I mean salvation is a growing process, sin is no longer attractive in light of eternity.
I keep coming back to the parable of the sower but then all the parables are written to Christians, on what will happen for good or evil. I know were not saved by works but there will be works that are weighed out in the final analysis, if we go by what is said in the parables.
Gary
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11846 is a reply to message #11842] |
Thu, 05 November 2015 01:11 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
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| james wrote on Wed, 04 November 2015 11:01 |
I'm not going to defend David Platt or Calvinism, but I'd just always assumed we were all pretty much in agreement on most of the teachings of John Calvin concerning the TULIP points. I thought outside of "Limited Atonement" (L) we believed his other points. Sometimes refered to as 4-point Calvinist.
I certainly believe Platt doesn't agree with 'limited atonement' or he wouldn't be so zealous to make known Jesus unto all nations and peoples.
So with what teachings of Calvin do you disagree?
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"God preordained...a part of the human race, without any merit of their own, to eternal salvation, and another part, in just punishment of their sin, to eternal damnation. " John Calvin
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Why preach the gospel if some will be saved no matter what and some will be lost no matter what?
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
The Bible teaches that whoever believes. This is for all men that they may receive salvation.
If what Calvin says is true then why would we even be involved because it has already been settled in heaven. Those who are preordained will be saved no matter what happens and those preordained to eternal damnation will perish no matter what they do.
If men have a free will they can reject Christ because they have chosen to reject Him, otherwise is the will of man really free?
When the disciples of Jesus turned back away from His teaching, He asked the twelve will you leave me as well, and Peter stated; where would we go, You have the words of eternal life. They chose to stay while the others chose to leave. Can we then say as Calvin; they left because God ordained them to eternal damnation?
Gary
[Updated on: Thu, 05 November 2015 01:14]
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11848 is a reply to message #11847] |
Thu, 05 November 2015 10:42 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
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| william wrote on Wed, 04 November 2015 22:15 |
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When the disciples of Jesus turned back away from His teaching, He asked the twelve will you leave me as well, and Peter stated; where would we go, You have the words of eternal life. They chose to stay while the others chose to leave. Can we then say as Calvin; they left because God ordained them to eternal damnation?
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I think it is the last statement that makes people squeamish.
The Bible gives us a lot of evidence that it is God who chooses the elect but the converse of that statement is unpalatable to most Christians. Listen to how it sounds: "God chooses those who are to be damned by not choosing/electing them for eternal life."
Blessings,
William
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Very well put, because its hard to say in words what is taking place with those who end up lost.
If the Lord loves all men then "He" as a just God extends salvation to everyone. Men make the choice through free will whether to reject God or to follow Him. Those who follow Him find out that He elected them to serve Him. There's a fine line there, how everyone could look at that scenario.
I think those scriptures I keep referring to implies men's choices, hearing they can hear but cannot understand,
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Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
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For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And "their" eyes "they" have closed,
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Maybe I'm stretching this scripture but it shows "they have closed "their" eyes", (Is this Willingly?), in other words they just don't want to hear what God has done for them.
Kind of like a rebellious teenager that hears what their parents say but they don't want to hear it because they want to do their own thing.
Concerning this thing about error or differences of opinions on scripture in the church world. The real issue is carnal/fleshly sin and disobedience, I think that if men are born again and they abstain from immorality (adultery, fornication, sodomy, etc.), and serve God in what capacity they choose to serve Him, that they will go to Heaven. I don't believe the Lord will cast out a man who loves the Lord and comes to Him. Come to think of it, there are a lot of other sins that will keep a man out of heaven as well:
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14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
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Jesus said; the last would be first and the first last. Some may come into the fields to work and not have the time on their side of getting to know God better, if they repent and turn to Jesus their sins are forgiven. He paid the price for all those who come to Him.
Anyway good point, I wished I would of thought of it. LOL
Gary
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11849 is a reply to message #11845] |
Thu, 05 November 2015 14:57 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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| Gary wrote on Wed, 04 November 2015 18:52 |
My apologies for jumping the gun, a number of articles I have read state Platt's view leans towards Calvinism, but trying to find where they are getting their information I am having trouble finding.
It does appear from what small amount of information I have found that he leans towards a legalistic view of evangelism. Most ministries tend to lock into some pet peeve doctrine and try to enforce the message in every sermon or at least most of the sermons they preach.
Then again all of this information I'm getting this from the internet as well, and it sounds like I've heard it before somewhere. I need to look further into what this Brother is sharing here. On some of the subjects I read, that he quoted, I had thought the same thing concerning others salvation but thought who was I to question another persons experience. Can we judge others by how they carry themselves in this world? There must be some type of judging going on or how would you discern anything by their fruits?
For example, if they say they know the Lord, but have no fruit or any interest in spiritual things, are they just babes in Christ who have been taught incorrectly or have they just had some religious experience and never met the Lord, and maybe their not Christians except in name only.
Let's face it every ones experience is different in some respect when we come to the Lord. But somewhere down the road you'll be convicted of what you allow in your life and start changing. By this I mean salvation is a growing process, sin is no longer attractive in light of eternity.
I keep coming back to the parable of the sower but then all the parables are written to Christians, on what will happen for good or evil. I know were not saved by works but there will be works that are weighed out in the final analysis, if we go by what is said in the parables.
Gary
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Since this thread is centered on what we can glean from The Gospels I'm going to respect the subject and stay off 'rabbit trails'...except to say this, I attend worship where David Platt pastored for several years and I assure you that this brother is a fruit bearer. I learned my lesson concerning putting men on pedestals with Hobart Freeman, but let me remind you that what we read on the internet, especially negative about someone(example FA & HEF) isn't always the truth. His life reflects his words as much as anyone I've ever seen.
Back to the Gospels, Jesus said: "Be ye doers of The Word and not hearers only..."
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11851 is a reply to message #11849] |
Fri, 06 November 2015 11:11 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
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Even though we have limited information concerning Jesus family we can look at the scriptures and have an idea what may have occurred during this time.
Jesus was starting out in His ministry and had immediate results with large crowds being ministered too. When a few people are healed or delivered, word gets out quick. Many came to hear what Jesus had to say and they brought the sick and diseased with them to be healed.
The Lord chooses the 12 and gives them the power to heal the sick and to set people free from demon depression.
Was the family of Jesus excited that He was now ministering and helping people, not really they thought that He had lost his mind:
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21 But when His own people heard about this, they went out to lay hold of Him, for they said, “He is out of His mind.”
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Imagine this the family all thinks that Jesus has gone crazy and was out of His mind. Word was getting out and the family did not like what was taking place.
At the very beginning of His ministry His family thinks He's crazy, the Pharisees and Scribes start speaking out against Him. The Lord had opposition from every angle.
In fact a few scriptures later we see His brothers wanting to have a talk with Him.
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31 Then His brothers and His mother came, and standing outside they sent to Him, calling Him.
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Whatever is taking place in the families mind we see His brothers and mother coming and they are calling Him to see what is going on, one would assume.
What is interesting is you would think that Mary would of called the family together and would tell them, Hey I got to let you all know something here that took place years ago. She knew in her heart what took place concerning the birth of Jesus. She was aware of the miracle that took place at the wedding feast.
At this point in time she appears to be silent on what took place in the past, and that shes oblivious in relating what she knows concerning information that may explain what is taking place with Jesus. Then again she may have told them and they thought she was losing it as well.
How would you like to have a ministry where the family, all the religious leaders, scribes, lawyers, and even some of your disciples thought you were a little out of your mind?
Gary
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11860 is a reply to message #11851] |
Wed, 18 November 2015 11:23 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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28 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that it is near—at the doors! 30 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
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I think there is more to this verse then what we understand it to mean.
In order to make this verse work in our line of thinking people try to keep working on a formula concerning how long a generation is, so they can calculate a date in the future.
This is an interesting document translated into English:
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Translation of the Declaration by the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
The Land of Israel was the birthplace of the Jewish people. Here their spiritual, religious and political identity was shaped. Here they first attained to statehood, created cultural values of national and universal significance and gave to the world the eternal Book of Books.
After being forcibly exiled from their land, the people kept faith with it throughout their Dispersion and never ceased to pray and hope for their return to it and for the restoration in it of their political freedom.
Impelled by this historic and traditional attachment, Jews strove in every successive generation to re-establish themselves in their ancient homeland. In recent decades they returned in their masses. Pioneers, ma'pilim [(Hebrew) - immigrants coming to Eretz-Israel in defiance of restrictive legislation] and defenders, they made deserts bloom, revived the Hebrew language, built villages and towns, and created a thriving community controlling its own economy and culture, loving peace but knowing how to defend itself, bringing the blessings of progress to all the country's inhabitants, and aspiring towards independent nationhood.
In the year 5657 (1897), at the summons of the spiritual father of the Jewish State, Theodore Herzl, the First Zionist Congress convened and proclaimed the right of the Jewish people to national rebirth in its own country.
This right was recognized in the Balfour Declaration of the 2nd November, 1917, and re-affirmed in the Mandate of the League of Nations which, in particular, gave international sanction to the historic connection between the Jewish people and Eretz-Israel and to the right of the Jewish people to rebuild its National Home.
The catastrophe which recently befell the Jewish people - the massacre of millions of Jews in Europe - was another clear demonstration of the urgency of solving the problem of its homelessness by re-establishing in Eretz-Israel the Jewish State, which would open the gates of the homeland wide to every Jew and confer upon the Jewish people the status of a fully privileged member of the comity of nations.
Survivors of the Nazi holocaust in Europe, as well as Jews from other parts of the world, continued to migrate to Eretz-Israel, undaunted by difficulties, restrictions and dangers, and never ceased to assert their right to a life of dignity, freedom and honest toil in their national homeland.
In the Second World War, the Jewish community of this country contributed its full share to the struggle of the freedom- and peace-loving nations against the forces of Nazi wickedness and, by the blood of its soldiers and its war effort, gained the right to be reckoned among the peoples who founded the United Nations.
On the 29th November, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel; the General Assembly required the inhabitants of Eretz-Israel to take such steps as were necessary on their part for the implementation of that resolution. This recognition by the United Nations of the right of the Jewish people to establish their State is irrevocable.
This right is the natural right of the Jewish people to be masters of their own fate, like all other nations, in their own sovereign State.
ACCORDINGLY WE, MEMBERS OF THE PEOPLE'S COUNCIL, REPRESENTATIVES OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY OF ERETZ-ISRAEL AND OF THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT, ARE HERE ASSEMBLED ON THE DAY OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER ERETZ-ISRAEL AND, BY VIRTUE OF OUR NATURAL AND HISTORIC RIGHT AND ON THE STRENGTH OF THE RESOLUTION OF THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-ISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL.
WE DECLARE that, with effect from the moment of the termination of the Mandate being tonight, the eve of Sabbath, the 6th Iyar, 5708 (15th May, 1948), until the establishment of the elected, regular authorities of the State in accordance with the Constitution which shall be adopted by the Elected Constituent Assembly not later than the 1st October 1948, the People's Council shall act as a Provisional Council of State, and its executive organ, the People's Administration, shall be the Provisional Government of the Jewish State, to be called "Israel".
THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
THE STATE OF ISRAEL is prepared to cooperate with the agencies and representatives of the United Nations in implementing the resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947, and will take steps to bring about the economic union of the whole of Eretz-Israel.
WE APPEAL to the United Nations to assist the Jewish people in the building-up of its State and to receive the State of Israel into the comity of nations.
WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.
WE EXTEND our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.
WE APPEAL to the Jewish people throughout the Diaspora to rally round the Jews of Eretz-Israel in the tasks of immigration and upbuilding and to stand by them in the great struggle for the realization of the age-old dream - the redemption of Israel.
PLACING OUR TRUST IN THE "ROCK OF ISRAEL", WE AFFIX OUR SIGNATURES TO THIS PROCLAMATION AT THIS SESSION OF THE PROVISIONAL COUNCIL OF STATE, ON THE SOIL OF THE HOMELAND, IN THE CITY OF TEL-AVIV, ON THIS SABBATH EVE, THE 5TH DAY OF IYAR, 5708 (14TH MAY,1948).[33]
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The question is what happens when a generation is stretched to its limit in order to make the parable of the fig tree fit most peoples calculations?
Gary
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11861 is a reply to message #11860] |
Wed, 18 November 2015 19:15 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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| Gary wrote on Wed, 18 November 2015 05:23 |
The question is what happens when a generation is stretched to its limit in order to make the parable of the fig tree fit most peoples calculations?
Gary
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Nothing that I can see; just another miscalculation by finite man seeking to know and understand God's Word...Yet how many have said they were being lead of The Holy Spirit in understanding and "rightly dividing The Word of God" when they gave their 'revelation' of the time sequence of God's plan? Back to the 'drawing board' for many I suppose. HE didn't tell us to figure it out, HE told us to be ready at all times so not be caught unawares.
So many worries can be squelched with just faith in this scripture..."Trust in The LORD with all thy heart and lean not unto thy own understanding, in all thy ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct thy path."
[Updated on: Wed, 18 November 2015 19:15]
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11862 is a reply to message #11861] |
Thu, 19 November 2015 09:42 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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| james wrote on Wed, 18 November 2015 14:15 |
| Gary wrote on Wed, 18 November 2015 05:23 |
The question is what happens when a generation is stretched to its limit in order to make the parable of the fig tree fit most peoples calculations?
Gary
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Nothing that I can see; just another miscalculation by finite man seeking to know and understand God's Word...Yet how many have said they were being lead of The Holy Spirit in understanding and "rightly dividing The Word of God" when they gave their 'revelation' of the time sequence of God's plan? Back to the 'drawing board' for many I suppose. HE didn't tell us to figure it out, HE told us to be ready at all times so not be caught unawares.
So many worries can be squelched with just faith in this scripture..."Trust in The LORD with all thy heart and lean not unto thy own understanding, in all thy ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct thy path."
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I'm not saying its wrong to be curious about the future and not saying your implying this either just making a point. It appears some scriptures are pulled out of context more then others to prove a point. The disciples asked this question because of what Jesus said that the stones of the temple area would be cast down.
In Israel to this day there is a huge pile of stones that the Romans cast down in 70 A.D., from the temple walls up high, and are piled up on one street outside the walls. The stones on the lower part are massive and they could not move them as easy as these are the stones from Solomon's Temple. The stones on the bottom section are like four feet wide, three feet tall, and over a hundred feet long, these stones made up the foundation of the temple.
Jesus is obviously speaking of stones where they were standing, when He made this statement. There was other buildings up around the temple area.
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13 Then as He went out of the temple, one of His disciples said to Him, “Teacher, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!”
2 And Jesus answered and said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone shall be left upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
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Then we see later the disciples asking Him about this in private.
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3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 4 “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?”
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The disciples are asking a specific question and Jesus tells them what is to happen in the future, then He gives the parable of the fig tree. This parable is given in context with what He is saying to His disciples.
All I'm saying is that before the Balfour Declaration was even thought of these verses in the Gospel (parable of the fig tree) were not interpreted as they are today. I guess with each generation they try to make the Bible fit their circumstances. In Luke's Gospel its not just the fig tree but all the trees are mentioned.
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Luke Wrote:
29 Then He spoke to them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. 30 When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near.
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Is this a future prophecy that was meant for another time? It will be interesting to see how it all pans out. For every prophecy concerning the future we can see dozens of views and interpretations explaining their meaning. For instance, Everyone now is convinced that the micro chip is the mark of the beast, while it may be a likely scenario, that could be possible, we don't know until it actually takes place. It could be a tattoo, the Bible just says its a "mark".
That's all it would take to get you into a place to be able to buy, sell, or trade.
Anyway while a lot of things are interesting to speculate on the most important thing is to "Watch and Pray", and as you said, or implied, Walking with the Lord and acknowledging Him in all our ways is all we need to get through this life.
I would like to look at some of the things that Jesus said, in the Gospels, concerning some future events that we know are taking place. The first thing the Lord told them after they asked the question about the future was, "Take heed that no one deceives you". There's some things we can know and others we just have to take them at face value.
I don't know what some groups are thinking its not like were going to be given a test with one of the questions saying: What do you think will happen during the tribulation?. What I am implying is; I don't see how people can be dogmatic concerning certain future events. Its not a matter of salvation, having all your ducks in a row concerning the future.
Gary
[Updated on: Thu, 19 November 2015 09:45]
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11863 is a reply to message #11860] |
Thu, 19 November 2015 15:05 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Gary, you mentioned about generations and the way they're calculated and I was reading in Luke chapter three the genealogies of Jesus and came up with 75 generations from Jesus back to Adam. I then read Matthew's record from Abraham to Jesus (14 from Abraham to David- 14 from David to the captivity- 14 from captivity to Jesus...that totals 42) and noticed that one, Matthew, follows the blood line through Solomon whereas Luke follows through Nathan. You ever noticed this difference?
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11864 is a reply to message #11863] |
Fri, 20 November 2015 13:15 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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| james wrote on Thu, 19 November 2015 10:05 |
Gary, you mentioned about generations and the way they're calculated and I was reading in Luke chapter three the genealogies of Jesus and came up with 75 generations from Jesus back to Adam. I then read Matthew's record from Abraham to Jesus (14 from Abraham to David- 14 from David to the captivity- 14 from captivity to Jesus...that totals 42) and noticed that one, Matthew, follows the blood line through Solomon whereas Luke follows through Nathan. You ever noticed this difference?
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James,
That sounds like the mathematician coming out in you. I do some math at work with reading blueprints but its minor in scope.
To be honest I was aware of the numbering of the genealogy's in the scripture but never paid much attention to the details. I know this is how they start with Adam and compare everything in the Bible and come up with a date showing how long man has been on the earth. I think its roughly 8000 to 10000 years, but I know some people will split hairs on the length of time.
I think if nothing else by having the genealogy's in the NT is a witness to Jewish people who come to know their Messiah, Jesus, they can trace His lineage.
But like I said; there are some groups that will argue concerning the dates showing how long that mankind has been on the earth. I think people can only get close to the date, and not know exactly. I think its kind of neat that someone can set for months and then come up with this information by comparing the scriptures to get this information. But Paul warns about people disputing over endless genealogy's.
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1 Timothy 1:3-5
3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia—remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. 5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,
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Like any subject in the Bible it can be carried to an extreme.
Just sharing some thoughts here on what little I know about this subject. It is a blessing that some are people able to comprehend all that goes into knowing how to understand the numbers or records and share what information a person may come up with concerning the genealogies.
I did not do very good with algebra and geometry, my teacher had the gift to put people to sleep in class.
Gary 
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11874 is a reply to message #11865] |
Mon, 23 November 2015 17:28 |
Mark L
Messages: 856
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
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Is this because Matthew followed Joseph's lineage and Luke followed Mary's?
That is what I've always thought. If Jesus is the natural born son of Joseph then it is impossible for him to be the messiah.
Jerimiah 22/22-30
Joseph descended through the line of David/Jeconiah. For Jesus to be his natural born son he would not be qualified for the Kingship.
Matthew really wrote his gospel with the Jews in mind. He gives the lineage of Joseph showing the problem then presents the answer. ie the virgin birth through Mary.
Also without going into a lot of detail it is obvious in Lukes account because of the way the greek is constructed that it is not Joseph he is descended from but Mary.
In the greek the definite article is used in front of every name except Joseph. This was jewish procedure to trace a womens line.
[Updated on: Mon, 23 November 2015 17:37]
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11893 is a reply to message #11874] |
Thu, 26 November 2015 15:00 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
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Jesus said: For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them away.
In other words life went on as always, people eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, but He goes on to say; they did not know until the flood came and took them away.
When the Son of Man comes this is what He will find, nothing has changed since the days of Noah.
Looking back to the time of Noah we find:
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5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
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God was sorry that He had even made man and it grieved His heart.
God went on to tell Noah:
13 And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
We see further that not only was everyone continually eating and drinking and marrying but they were given over to violence. Sound familiar, life is filled with violence in our society and in the world there is continual blood shed.
Before Noah we have a man who walked with God, his name was Enoch. Thousands of years later we see a small prophesy of Enoch who was there and witnessed the ungodliness.
14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
A powerful prophesy proclaiming God will come to execute judgement on all for their ungodly deeds which they commit and all that the ungodly have spoken against the Lord.
Jude goes on to tell us that these people are:
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16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. 17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: 18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. 19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.
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He says the Apostles warned them that mockers would come in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts.
All of this takes place as "life goes on", people eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, while violence sweeps across the face of the earth. There is a certain amount of enjoyment that men derive from violence.
32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is. 34 It is like a man going to a far country, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to each his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch. 35 Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning— 36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!”
Paul tells us:
Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
But the time will come and is upon us when men will follow their own "desires". Its interesting that Paul points out that they will "heap up teachers". Then they will turn their "ears" from the truth and turn aside to fables.
Hearing they will hear but not hear.
32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is. 34 It is like a man going to a far country, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to each his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch. 35 Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning— 36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!”
2 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,
Paul along with Jesus stressed the need not to neglect salvation, its all through the New Testament. The world goes on with its continual party, but Jesus is the same Yesterday, Today and Forever and He watches over His Word to perform it. Not one jot or tittle will pass away until all is fulfilled.
What a blessing it is to be partakers of the inheritance with the saints in light.
Jesus tells us to:
“Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
"Many" will seek to enter? Who is the many? Could it be those who seek to follow their own desires because seeking their own desires they turn their ears from the truth. Its always important to look at Gods truth and to make sure its not man's thinking, because God's truth, is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto the path that were walking on, leading us, in His Will.
Striving for something that is worth going after ends up being a pearl of great price.
Gary
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11896 is a reply to message #11893] |
Fri, 27 November 2015 11:29 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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The disciples wanted to know when would the time of the end come and what would be the signs. They came to Him privately asking for this information.
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3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
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We have to realize that Jesus is talking to His disciples and we can realize that as His disciples today He is telling us what will take place. The ones He is confiding this information to will not be present when it takes place as it is all future so this information is for all His disciples for all times.
What is interesting is the very first thing Jesus tells us:
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4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you.
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Take heed that no one deceives you.
If there is any message that is all through the Gospels and the Epistles is that men will come as ravenous wolves with new doctrines that are not in the scripture.
Who is behind this twisting of Scripture? Its none other then satan who from the very beginning deceived Eve in the garden of Eden.
In Genesis we see:
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3 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”
2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’”
4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.
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The devil will always come with some small portion of scripture and twist it to mean something it does not say. That's why its important to look at the Bible and understand its plain meaning because we are told; "the Bible is of no private interpretation".
People in these end times will come with strange new doctrines and you'll always find that if you get in a discourse concerning what they are proclaiming, they tend to change the subject. If you cannot prove something with scripture then it all becomes mere speculation. Every Biblical doctrine will be plain for all to see and understand, and if the subject is getting constantly changed there is a direct influence of a spirit of confusion. Remember God is not the Author of Confusion.
The Spirit of God in these end times is not redefining what Jesus plainly tells us, the Spirit of God will always be in agreement with what Jesus has told us as His disciples.
When you become born again, you become a disciple of Jesus and what He says to one He says to all.
From the very beginning the devil has led men down the road of deception, Jesus had to deal with this when He was fasting in the desert for forty days. The devil would quote scripture out of context and Jesus would always give the clear meaning with scripture to refute the devil.
The Whole Bible is for us today as His disciples, and we can rest in the fact that God is not a man that He should lie nor the son of man that He should repent. The devil questioned what God said in the garden while talking to Eve and he questions what Jesus tells us in His word today.
John 10:13-15
13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
Jesus laid down His life for us, His sheep and He gave us His warnings in His word for us to keep and remember.
Gary
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11904 is a reply to message #11896] |
Wed, 02 December 2015 11:32 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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Its interesting to note that Jesus the Son of God would spend a lot of time alone praying to the Father. Its a good chance that maybe He was in fellowship and communion with Him.
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15 However, the report went around concerning Him all the more; and great multitudes came together to hear, and to be healed by Him of their infirmities.
16 So He Himself often withdrew into the wilderness and prayed.
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Again we see this lady in scripture spending her time in fasting and prayer.
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36 Now there was one, Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was of a great age, and had lived with a husband seven years from her virginity; 37 and this woman was a widow of about eighty-four years, who did not depart from the temple, but served God with fasting and prayers night and day. 38 And coming in that instant she gave thanks to the Lord, and spoke of Him to all those who looked for redemption in Jerusalem.
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So the Bible says she "served" God with fasting and prayers. This lady was not born again nor had the Baptism but spent her days serving God with prayer and fasting. Interesting!
You would think Jesus would not have a need for constant prayer since He was and is God. But something drew Him into this realm of communion.
And we ask the question: Why no revival?
Gary
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11905 is a reply to message #11904] |
Wed, 02 December 2015 14:16 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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| Gary wrote on Wed, 02 December 2015 05:32 |
Its a good chance that maybe He was in fellowship and communion with Him.
You would think Jesus would not have a need for constant prayer since He was and is God. But something drew Him into this realm of communion.
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That's an understatement, I think scripture reveals that He was always in fellowship with His Father...but sometimes He went alone/apart so they could commune in private.
Also He was setting an example, both to those following Him then as well as those to follow in the future, the value of prayer. Once He had restored fellowship between God and man and ,(as we're taught...let us come boldly before the throne of Grace...,) access to God was made to all who believes. No more relying upon priest and rituals/sacrifices with outward actions, now believers could talk with their Father in an intimate, personal way.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11906 is a reply to message #11905] |
Thu, 03 December 2015 10:14 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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| james wrote on Wed, 02 December 2015 09:16 |
| Gary wrote on Wed, 02 December 2015 05:32 |
Its a good chance that maybe He was in fellowship and communion with Him.
You would think Jesus would not have a need for constant prayer since He was and is God. But something drew Him into this realm of communion.
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That's an understatement, I think scripture reveals that He was always in fellowship with His Father...but sometimes He went alone/apart so they could commune in private.
Also He was setting an example, both to those following Him then as well as those to follow in the future, the value of prayer. Once He had restored fellowship between God and man and ,(as we're taught...let us come boldly before the throne of Grace...,) access to God was made to all who believes. No more relying upon priest and rituals/sacrifices with outward actions, now believers could talk with their Father in an intimate, personal way.
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Well at least you know what I meant, I didn't phrase out the words correctly. It's more important now to understand then any other time in the history of man concerning drawing close to God.
As I shared recently, it is as in the days of Noah, when violence filled the Earth. God regretted that He had made man but there was those who found Grace in His eyes. Enoch walked with God and the Lord took him out of here.
It seems anymore that a week doesn't go by that we hear that something major takes place with senseless violence. I see people constantly talking at work about buying up more guns. People are not content anymore.
It may be closer to the end then what we can even imagine.
Gary
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11915 is a reply to message #11906] |
Sat, 12 December 2015 13:32 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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There's quite a contrast; what we see supposedly done in the name of Christ in our modern times and what took place back when Jesus was born. Today people are spending multi millions of dollars buying cheap material goods all in the guise of celebrating the birth of Christ. When in reality the minds of most are centered on what they can get versus the fact that God has come to deliver men from their sins.
The Lord never intended that men would rush out to buy each other gifts concerning His birth. God has made a way for men to have eternal life through repentance and turning to Him.
After the birth of Christ, tragedy struck quickly in the land of Israel. As I had mentioned before Herod destroyed hundreds of young children over the birth of Christ. Its surprising that a man in the Roman government could commit such an atrocity and no one in the government raised a voice.
The Bible only tells us that he had fulfilled a prophecy given by Jeremiah and we see in scripture where he lies to the wise men because he has ulterior motives.
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7 Then Herod, when he had secretly called the wise men, determined from them what time the star appeared. 8 And he sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the young Child, and when you have found Him, bring back word to me, that I may come and worship Him also.”
9 When they heard the king, they departed; and behold, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came and stood over where the young Child was. 10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceedingly great joy. 11 And when they had come into the house, they saw the young Child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him. And when they had opened their treasures, they presented gifts to Him: gold, frankincense, and myrrh.
12 Then, being divinely warned in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed for their own country another way.
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God who knows all things warned Joseph in a dream to take the child and leave and to go to Egypt.
Shortly thereafter Herod dies and his son rules in his place. What we don't see in scripture is the horrible death that Herod went through shortly after murdering the children.
Josephus tells us that: Herod heard his first son was plotting to have him poisoned so he changed his will and made his youngest son Archelaus ruler in his place. He gave millions of dollars to various relatives and even sent valuable items to Caesar and his wife Julia.
Herod was also troubled because he thought the Jews would rejoice after he was dead. Herod in his last days took a large number of prominent Jewish men and had them locked up in a building under a Roman guard. He then left instructions telling others to execute the Jews upon his death so that they would be mourning the loss of their family members when he died and they would not feel like rejoicing over his death because of their own loss.
What happened after Herod killed all the innocent children? Josephus tells us that he suffered because of Gods swift vengeance.
Josephus wrote:
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But now Herod's distemper greatly increased upon him after a severe manner, and this by God's judgement upon him for his sins: for a fire glowed in him slowly, which did not so much appear outwardly; for it brought upon him a vehement appetite to eating, which he could not avoid to supply with one sort of food or other. His entrails were also exulcerated, and the chief violence of his pain lay on his colon; an aqueous and transparent liquor also had settled itself about his feet, and a like matter afflicted him at the bottom of his belly. Nay, further, his privy-member was putrified, and produced worms; and when he sat upright he had a difficulty breathing, which was very loathsome, on account of the stench of his breath and the quickness of the returns; he had also convulsions in all parts of his body, which increased his strength to an insufferable degree.
It was said by those who pretended to divine, and who were endued with wisdom to foretell such things, that God inflicted this punishment on the king on account of his great impiety: yet was he still in hope of recovering, though his afflictions seemed greater then anyone could bear.
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The Jewish men were later released without Herod's knowledge a few days before he died.
Shortly before Herod had this horrible disease come upon him we see him having innocent children put to death in his quest to destroy God's Son:
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16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was deceived by the wise men, was exceedingly angry; and he sent forth and put to death all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all its districts, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the wise men. 17 Then was fulfilled what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying:
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“A voice was heard in Ramah,
Lamentation, weeping, and great mourning,
Rachel weeping for her children,
Refusing to be comforted,
Because they are no more.”
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After the birth of Christ families were weeping and crying over the loss of their children, and later picking up the pieces and going on with their lives.
But God did not allow Herod to continue in his evil arrogant ways. In Matthew it only tells us he died.
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19 Now when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, 20 saying, “Arise, take the young Child and His mother, and go to the land of Israel, for those who sought the young Child’s life are dead.” 21 Then he arose, took the young Child and His mother, and came into the land of Israel.
22 But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning over Judea instead of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And being warned by God in a dream, he turned aside into the region of Galilee. 23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, “He shall be called a Nazarene.”
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Joseph was afraid when he heard Archelaus (Herod's son), was reigning in Herod's place so being warned in a dream he went to dwell in a city called Nazareth.
Even though the Roman government turned a blind eye to Herod's atrocities, his sin did not go unpunished.
God's Son coming to the earth was never intended for the purpose of men striving to give gifts with a party atmosphere going on under the guise of celebrating Christ's birth, but that men would turn from their sins and accept the work provided at the cross.
Gary
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11917 is a reply to message #11915] |
Sat, 12 December 2015 17:40 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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Gods in sovereign control, even though the Pharisees thought they had the upper hand when Jesus walked on the earth, and they crucified Him with no remorse. The Pharisees turned a blind eye to the truth and in their minds they thought they were serving God.
Josephus even records the calamities that came upon the Pharisees after the crucifixion. Remember them crying out we have no king but Caesar. Shortly after this Josephus tells us that Pilate erected a statue in Jerusalem that was an abomination to the Jews. Then many rebelled at what the government was doing and tried to take matters in their own hands. This stirred up Rome who was swift to retaliate.
We read in the book of Acts that there was also a famine in the land.
According to Josephus many of the Jews starved to death during this time and there is one account of a woman who ate her new born child.
Josephus wrote:
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"For the Wealthy," he says, it was equally dangerous to remain in Jerusalem. For under pretense they were going to desert, men were put to death for their wealth. The madness of the seditions increased with the famine and both the miseries were inflamed more and more day by day. No were was food to be seen; but, bursting into the houses men searched them thoroughly, and whenever they found anything to eat they tormented the owners on the ground that they had denied anything; but if they found nothing, they tortured them on the ground that they had more carefully concealed it.
Of all evils, indeed, famine is the worst, and it destroys nothing so effectively as shame.
Josephus goes on to say: Such was the reward which the Jews received for their wickedness and impiety, against the Christ of God.
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It was only a matter of time before the world went into what is called the "dark ages".
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Eusebius tells us that Jesus predicted this time when He states: "Woe unto them that are with suck in those days! But pray that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day. For there shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world, no, nor ever shall be."
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There is only one true God and not many paths into heaven. Jesus said, "strait is the gate, narrow is the way, and few there be that find it."
Its interesting to see the viewpoint of someone who lived back in that time, 2000 years ago and get a perspective on what they saw taking place before their very eyes.
In reality with all out modern day inventions, we find were not too different from the people who walked on the earth back then. Violence, rebellion towards the authorities, distrust of the government, seems like a modern day scenario.
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Gary
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11919 is a reply to message #11917] |
Mon, 14 December 2015 11:00 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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Hegesippus once wrote:
When the sacred college of the apostles had suffered death in various forms, and the generations of those that had been deemed worthy to hear the inspired wisdom with their own ears had passed away, the the league of godless error took its rise as a result of the folly of heretical teachers, who, because none of the apostles was still living, attempted with a bold face, to proclaim, in opposition to the preaching of the truth, the "knowledge which is falsely so-called".
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In church history we see "immediately" after the death of the generation that heard the wisdom of the apostles passed away, heretical teachers came with godless error which swept through the churches.
Since the reformation we have seen men rise up with understanding of what the Bible was proclaiming and some understanding has returned to the body of Christ. With that we also see where Jesus, Paul, and some of the Apostles have warned us that in the end of time men would turn from the truth.
Jesus tells us plainly:
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46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? 47 Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: 48 He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock. 49 But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great.”
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Many today try to explain away the clear sayings of Jesus, telling us; "this scripture is not for today, that scripture was for the apostles, that saying was for another time, etc.." It doesn't matter if its concerning speaking in tongues, following holiness, or whatever the subject its being explained away.
Jesus tells us that; "whoever comes to me", and "hears my sayings and does them", is like a man who built his house on the rock.
In today's world we are told some of the things Jesus said, is not for us but for those of another time. They leave out the part that Jesus is the one who says them.
Well, who are we going to believe?
God says what He means and means what He says.
The problem is that godless error is still running rampant in these end times. Men fashion God to fit into their program.
No matter what, godless error and heretical teachings will be prevalent in these endtimes and what is important is that those who can hear will listen to what the Son of God says over what men may tell us what he is saying or not saying.
The man that can "hear and does" the Word, Jesus tells us that He is building his house on the Rock and the storms of life will not prevail over him.
Gary
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11923 is a reply to message #11919] |
Fri, 18 December 2015 10:53 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
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In reading the church fathers its interesting to note that; after the apostles went on to be with the Lord, people in their churches had the Baptism and spoke with tongues, that the churches still practiced divine healing, raising of the dead, and people had demonic spirits cast out of them.
They also write that the gifts were practiced in the church on a regular basis, with God speaking directly to them through prophecy, and other gifts.
The church fathers had to constantly deal with a number of sects who twisted what the Apostles had proclaimed. Various sects arose preaching heresies, and erroneous doctrines that strayed from the truth. Papias wrote that he was very careful to write everything down that he had heard from the Apostles to preserve what was taught.
Everything in the Old Testament and the New Testament centers around Christ. In the Book of Revelation we see in Heaven, that the Son of God is glorified before all because of what took place at the cross.
Jesus is the Son of God, and He is faithful to fulfill His Word to those who listen and believe, and are doers and not just hearers.
Gary
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #11958 is a reply to message #11923] |
Wed, 13 January 2016 11:16 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Build on the Rock
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”
28 And so it was, when Jesus had ended these sayings, that the people were astonished at His teaching, 29 for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
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Building our house on these "sayings", how clear can the Word of God be. What is interesting here is that they were astonished at His teaching for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
Gary
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #12141 is a reply to message #11958] |
Sun, 04 December 2016 15:53 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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It appears Mark 16: poses a dilemma when witnessing to born again Christians who have been indoctrinated into the present day system of Christianity, "concerning" the Baptism of the Spirit!
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14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; [b]18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
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There it is in plain English. When sharing with someone concerning the Baptism, it says: And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
Invariably the person points out that: 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; these people (that were witnessing to), tell us; do we take up serpents?
Recently when this event took place while sharing with someone, I thought of Paul who picked up a pile of wood and a serpent comes out and bites him, and this poisonous snakes venom did him no harm.
But upon further evaluation(while setting there thinking), I realized what took place with Paul left a lame argument to tell this person concerning what this verse was referring to.
I don't know if anyone can completely understand what is written here in this portion of scripture when it comes to "they will take up serpents", as it is written in the Book of Mark. I tried to rationalize in my mind maybe this has something to do with the demonic realm involving deliverance, but the Bible goes on to say if they drink any deadly poison.
We do have groups who physically take up rattle snakes in their meetings, they believe their obeying these scriptures. But with that in mind I don't believe the Lord wants us to bring serpents to the weekly meeting to prove we have faith. I can just picture the scenario: who has the anointing to handle the "black Mamba" tonight? If they did not have a back door in the church I would be making one.
What does God mean here, when it comes to taking up serpents and drinking poison?
At face value I could justify drinking deadly poison if we as Christians were forced to drink it, I believe God would protect us as He has promised. But your still faced with the fact that says; "they" will take up serpents. There has never been an situation throughout history involving Christians taking up serpents. It says those who believe that "they", will take them up.
Let every word be established in the mouth of two or three witnesses. We don't find this message contained in the rest of the New Testament or mentioned as a practice in the book of Acts.
In the margin in my Bible it states: Verses 9-20 are bracketed in NU-Text as not original. They are lacking in Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus, although other manuscripts of Mark contain them.
That sounds like a plausible simple answer, remove them; there not in certain original manuscripts, but we find not only is taking up serpents removed, and drinking any deadly poison, but the entire last portion of Mark's gospel is removed. "The great commission, speaking in tongues, laying hands on the sick, etc,".
It's interesting that the great commission is a regular teaching at most churches, but speaking in tongues in not accepted because its included in the sentence concerning taking up serpents. These verses were all given at the same time before Jesus ascended up into Heaven.
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
At this point I have been unable to come to a clear understanding, I have to just accept these verses exist in Mark's gospel. I'm glad at this point that when someone came to me and told me about receiving the Baptism of the Spirit, that I had no knowledge that these other verses existed, I had not been indoctrinated at this point in time.
When we look through scripture on how the Apostles ministered we find a pattern. Paul made it clear when he said; Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed? They replied we have only been baptised with John's baptism. Just like Mark 16 we see a group of born again believers who just had not heard about the baptism. These men were saved, followers of Jesus and His teaching.
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19 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.
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Twelve men willingly received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.
For some reason people because of doctrines or traditions feel that your questioning their salvation experience when you tell them about this experience.
Note: 17 And these signs will follow those who believe:
There's nothing in this statement concerning their salvation. In fact the very verse before this is quite clear.
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
If someone believes that Jesus is Lord and He died for their sins, and their baptised,(in water), they shall be saved. but he who does not believe Jesus died for their sins will be condemned.
I think this is emphatic concerning ones salvation. It goes on to say if they believe they will speak with new tongues. Paul when he met the men in Acts 19;, did not question their salvation but he went on to minister a further blessing for believers.
So were left with questions here; Is there a deeper meaning in these verses, like a hidden parable? Whatever the reason these verses are found in Mark, I find it harder to minister to someone who has held to certain doctrines concerning the Baptism. Maybe one day the Lord will give us understanding concerning what is meant here.
Until then, I have decided only to take people to the book of Acts 19:, when asking them if they received the Holy Spirit since they believed.
Gary
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #12143 is a reply to message #12142] |
Tue, 06 December 2016 02:19 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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William,
I think that's probably the best interpretation anyone could come up with to fit that verse, I thought it was a very interesting concept. The thought had crossed my mind that it could pertain to the future, but I was too locked into the present trying to apply it to people receiving the Baptism with the evidence of tongues, that I ruled that option out.
How would that sound anyway; when they point out the verse that "they will pick up serpents", we could reply; oh, that verse is in the future. It doesn't sound convincing unless you already speak in tongues, then it makes sense.
From what I see unless the Lord opens someones eyes how could anyone understand any of scripture. His disciples walked with Him and heard the Word preached, and saw all the signs but they still did not understand.
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44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things. 49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”
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BTW is that photo your real blood brother, there was not a whole lot of family resemblance.
Not to change the subject but This brother made the statement:
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The woman or we can say, the church is left behind and has to flee from the face (or out of the sight) of the Dragon which is a government ruled by the Antichrist in the area of the Middle east stretching from North Africa to modern day Turkey and bordering China to the east. This is an Islamic government consisting geographically of all the former kingdoms spoken of in the book of Daniel and in the Revelation of John.
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I'm leaning more towards an Islamic Antichrist during the tribulation. For now I think it makes sense.
Gary
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #12145 is a reply to message #12141] |
Tue, 06 December 2016 20:09 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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| Gary wrote on Sun, 04 December 2016 09:53 |
There it is in plain English. When sharing with someone concerning the Baptism, it says: And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
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Is it possible that the problem with certain scriptures which we can't seem to fully grasp is because the translators in translating from the available Greek/Aramaic manuscripts didn't translate it correctly? I'm sure not a scholar, nor have I had the opportunity to see the documents used, but I've been told that the available writings used by Wycliffe and Tyndale weren't as complete as that available 400 years later.(Dead Sea Scrolls hadn't been discovered yet) Some scholars today say that certain of the Dead Sea Scrolls are much older that what Tyndale used to complete the first English Bible. Several translations state that Mark 16:9-20 isn't found in those older copies of manuscripts, along with other passages.
I don't know, but if it's true that the English translation by Tyndale, which is from 65% to 90% word for word found in the King James, and the manuscripts he had available were several hundred years newer than the Dead Sea Scrolls, then it just seems like the older manuscripts would be closer to the original language used and translated, and thereby more accurate.
Just something to think about, not trying to be labeled a heretic or come against the KJV (which is the bible I use).
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #12146 is a reply to message #12145] |
Wed, 07 December 2016 00:44 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
Senior Member |
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Hi James & Gary,
Have been following your interesting topic & comments. Thought I`d add mine.
`And these signs will follow those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up deadly serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.` (Mark 16: 17 & 18)
Now I don`t read that as a list that I would have to do to prove I am a believer. I read it as the Lord saying that believers will have these signs. However I don`t read everyone has to perform every sign.
What say you? Marilyn.
Marilyn C
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #12148 is a reply to message #12147] |
Wed, 07 December 2016 02:08 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
Senior Member |
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And Hi to you William,
Yes I agree with you too. And the signs we commonly see are -
- speaking in other tongues,
- healing the sick,
- casting out of demons.
On that note, have you seen `The Last Reformation,` video on Utube by Torbein?
It shows what God is doing out in the `streets & lanes,` much of the above.
regards, Marilyn.
Marilyn C
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| Re: Gleanings from the "Gospels" [message #12149 is a reply to message #12148] |
Wed, 07 December 2016 04:45 |
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william
Messages: 1464
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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| Marilyn Crow wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 20:08 |
And Hi to you William,
Yes I agree with you too. And the signs we commonly see are -
- speaking in other tongues,
- healing the sick,
- casting out of demons.
On that note, have you seen `The Last Reformation,` video on Utube by Torbein?
It shows what God is doing out in the `streets & lanes,` much of the above.
regards, Marilyn.
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Yes! I watched The Last Reformation - The beginning (2016) Full Movie and it was AWESOME!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zka4DUYeJ5g
Thank you so much for pointing it out. I'm going to look at the other two you mentioned next but that one was a big WOW!
Blessings,
William
I want to believe!
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It's not a 'math' problem, I don't care about the 'numbers' adding up I was just curious as to why names were different in the two Gospel accounts.
