Home » Discussion Area » Bible Issues » How do you understand this Scripture?
| How do you understand this Scripture? [message #7875] |
Sat, 28 May 2011 12:56  |
 DeWayne
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I have been thinking about this lately. And no, I do not believe that the Father forsook Jesus on the cross.
Mark 15:34 (NKJV)
34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"
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| Re: How do you understand this Scripture? [message #7879 is a reply to message #7875] |
Sat, 28 May 2011 15:46  |
james
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Location: Birmingham, AL |
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I think it was the fulfillment of scripture written in Psalms 22:1 and 11-18 where David prophecied what would happen to the Messiah. There is so much confussion among Christians concerning Jesus' crucifixion and what actually happened. So many believe He became a sinner, went to hell, was alienated from God, that He died spiritually, ect.(JDS)
Because of a lack of understanding of the purpose and pattern of sacrifice that God ordained in The Old Testament many err in their understanding of what the atonement was (Exodus 30:10) (Hebrews 9:22) and what it acomplished. Jesus was first and foremost the perfect, spotless, sacrifice and He was a SIN-OFFERING and bore the punishment for OUR sins, to appease the wrath of God against OUR sins. His Holy pure blood had to be shed in order for there to be an atonement.
Some think God did forsake Jesus because He couldn't look on sin and Jesus had taken on the whole world's sins...I also don't believe God EVER forsook Jesus because He DID NOT become a sinner, He ONLY bore the punishment for OUR sins as OUR substitute because God only accepts the sacrifical Lamb that is without spot or blemish...we don't qualify. Isaiah 64:6 and Romans 3:23
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: How do you understand this Scripture? [message #7883 is a reply to message #7882] |
Sun, 29 May 2011 11:19 |
james
Messages: 2138
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Location: Birmingham, AL |
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Habakkuk 1:13
"Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity:..."
There may be more (and probably are) scriptures that mention God not viewing/looking upon, sin/evil/iniquity, but this is the one I remember.
But as I write this I'm reminded that God sees and knows all things, so there are scriptures that could be used to show that He does 'see' man's iniquity.
Wanta share what you believe about the verse and statement about God forsaking Jesus while He was on the Cross?
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: How do you understand this Scripture? [message #7885 is a reply to message #7875] |
Sun, 29 May 2011 15:10 |
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william
Messages: 1462
Registered: January 2006 |
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Jesus agonized in the garden of Gethsemane and when we read the account there is, more clearly presented, a contrast between the human and the divine nature. Especially in this account we see the human emotions struggling to comprehend and embrace the will of God through the furnace of trial.
His cry "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" was another one of those agonizing moments that clearly presents Jesus as experiencing the same kind of emotions that the whole human race has experienced at one time or another, that feeling of abandonment/separation. (We know that for theological reasons there had to be a 'legal' separation but I'm guessing that this was not on the mind of Jesus as he was in the throes of the moment.)
"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin."
Human beings are not omniscient. We don't see the 'big picture' and many times this results in dismay when the thing we greatly fear--the 'impossible' not only becoming possible but actually happening to us or the ones we love.
When was the last time you had a trial that totally befuddled your theology? When, contrary to all that you were believing for, the 'impossible' happened and you were left forsaken/abandoned by God?
In Jesus' case we know that he was not abandoned and we can also be sure that we are not abandoned in those cases. This knowledge, however, doesn't keep us from experiencing the extreme emotional agony in the midst of a fiery trial.
Next time something doesn't go exactly according to your 'confession of faith', remember that: "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it]."
Blessings,
William
[Updated on: Mon, 30 May 2011 05:27]
I want to believe!
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| Re: How do you understand this Scripture? [message #7887 is a reply to message #7886] |
Sun, 29 May 2011 18:51 |
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william
Messages: 1462
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| Quote: |
I guess my question is mainly concerning the Father forsaking Jesus. How can God forsake Himself?
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Well, I don't believe that is what the verse says. Jesus, in his humanity cries out "why have you forsaken me?". It doesn't say that God *HAD* forsaken him. That was the point that I was making in the other post. Jesus, as he is experiencing the same kind of things that all men experience, cries out under the burden. It seemed as if he was forsaken at that moment.
But according to 2 Cor 5:19: "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation..." there was no forsaking of Jesus as God was 'in Christ' doing the work of reconciliation.
The animal that was the first to die on the behalf of Adam & Eve, could have wondered the same thing... why have you forsaken me?
Isaac, as he was bound to the wood of the altar, could have expressed the same anguished question, "father, why are you forsaking me... I'm the child of promise?"
Joseph didn't experience the prospect of death but while in prison surely had moments where it seemed as if God had forsaken him.
Job exhibited an extraordinary faith in the midst of his sufferings but there were times when the thought of having been forsaken of God must have crossed his mind.
Of course in the light of the 'big picture' it makes perfect sense, but in the light of the moment, as waves of deep anguish and pain are burning into the conscience it seems as if God isn't there.
Human beings, and Jesus was fully human (as well as divine), don't have the omniscient capacity to understand all of God's plan as it unfolds around us. The best we can hope for is that we'll understand it all, by and by.
I'm not saying that this is the de facto interpretation of the verse, but it satisfies my understanding.
Blessings,
William
[Updated on: Sun, 29 May 2011 20:37]
I want to believe!
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| Re: How do you understand this Scripture? [message #7892 is a reply to message #7891] |
Sun, 29 May 2011 21:40 |
james
Messages: 2138
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." Philippians 2:6-8
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: How do you understand this Scripture? [message #7893 is a reply to message #7892] |
Sun, 29 May 2011 22:20 |
Mark L
Messages: 853
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
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Wow William very good. Very well expressed. I thought the way you answered the original question was very good. I really agree with this.
His cry "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" was another one of those agonizing moments that clearly presents Jesus as experiencing the same kind of emotions that the whole human race has experienced at one time or another, that feeling of abandonment/separation. (We know that for theological reasons there had to be a 'legal' separation but I'm guessing that this was not on the mind of Jesus as he was in the throes of the moment.)
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| Re: How do you understand this Scripture? [message #7909 is a reply to message #7897] |
Mon, 06 June 2011 23:40 |
DeWayne
Messages: 82
Registered: August 2006 |
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Philippians 2:6-7 (ASV)
6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;
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