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| Re: Church Government [message #11095 is a reply to message #11045] |
Tue, 29 April 2014 15:45   |
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Accountability means a person can't just do what they want in God's church without sowing and reaping. Accountability in what I'm trying to show is - that if you depart from the way of God of the scriptures and the Holy Spirit, that there are people in positions of authority in the church by virtue of God's appointment - that you may be called to account by. Think Ananias and Saphira (sp) for one. Paul gives many examples as well -as God will judge the situation. Some people need to forget about these FA denomination "catch words" and use a dictionary?
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| Re: Church Government [message #11096 is a reply to message #11083] |
Tue, 29 April 2014 15:50 |
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From what I've read so far. I would not expect that people r largely in bible churches in this forum. Not the doctrine - but the attitude. That's not a good thing btw.
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| Re: Church Government [message #11097 is a reply to message #11080] |
Tue, 29 April 2014 16:36 |
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 william
Messages: 1463
Registered: January 2006 |
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| Apostle wrote on Mon, 28 April 2014 09:28 |
Mr. Christian cannot say to Mr. Deacon - Do not minister to that one, Mr. Deacon cant tell Mr. Teacher - don't teach on that, Mr. Teacher can't tell Mr. Pastor what to do at Sunday meeting, Mr. Pastor cant tell visiting community evangelist not to preach on that and on and on. Its a simple well understandable idea. Because those in authority in these positions have the higher level of authority to make those calls then the others. I don't like to labor such a matter. Ask a 10 year old if they can do want they want "in church" without regard to the proper authorities. Its the same I have been saying all along.
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You asked me in a PM about my response to this (the above quote) and I said that I would answer you openly here.
Neither Mr. apostle (nor Mr. deacon, nor Mr. teacher, nor Mr. evangelist) can say to 'mr. regular christian' --"don't question what I say".
I had a question about what you said, I've laid out the reasons for the question, and you tell me you can't be bothered with scriptural details.
Do tell, what 'authority' do you (or anyone else that names the name of Christ) have over me (mr. regular christian) in this type of circumstance?
Your answer might help me to understand whether or not you have any understanding about 'authority' in the church.
Mk 10:42-45 clearly overturns the whole notion of some segment of the christian population having ANY 'AUTHORITY' over other segments of the christian population.
Biblical authority is leadership, not rulership. It is service, not authoritarianism. Leadership is a concept that ought to inspire others to follow, it is not a concept that coerces free-born-christians into bondage to some false concept (expressed by you) concerning a "chain of command/authority," or some "accountability" to that supposed 'authority'.
So where is your 'accountability' to mr. regular christian?
Buzzword?
I do cringe when I hear the word, but that is only because I have NEVER heard the word used properly without the baggage of the "chain of command" kind of thinking.
William
(Edited to correct the scriptural reference. It should have been-- MK10:42-45)
[Updated on: Tue, 29 April 2014 17:34]
I want to believe!
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| Re: Church Government [message #11098 is a reply to message #11096] |
Tue, 29 April 2014 17:01 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Jeff, we really don't need you to come along and tell us that we aren't part of the 'perfect' Bible church/assembly/gathering; (we already know) believe me when I tell you that we've all struggled with finding a gathering that taught/believed as we did when we were associated with Faith Assembly. And we've not found a pastor/teacher like Hobart Freeman. That being said, we all desire Christian fellowship and desire to obey the clear instructions to assemble ourselves together to worship and praise God. Some have found fellowship and some haven't; some(me) stopped looking and gave up and just sat in judgment of "the harlot system of man", until The Lord dealt with me about it and so now I'm attending a church where The Word IS taught, nope, not like HEF and not exactly like in the book of Acts. But I believe unless and until God shows me differently I'll continue to worship there. btw: a perfect church is no longer perfect when you or I walk in; I've not met anyone perfect and sinless since I became a follower of Christ, though I strive daily to walk even as He walked.
I know from experience it's easy to find the flaws, point out the deceptions in others; it's altogether different to look in the mirror of God's Word and apply it to oneself with equal honesty.
You spoke of humility earlier, it only comes when we begin to see ourselves as we really are...and as painful as that sometimes is, it's a very good thing. Then we can begin to receive from others and grow in Christ without a false sense of pride and self-righteousness blinding us. It's at that place we can begin to actually understand and receive taking on 'the mind of Christ', "let this mind be in you ..." Phil.2:5 The mind of a servant, not a general/commander/admiral.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Church Government [message #11099 is a reply to message #11097] |
Tue, 29 April 2014 17:42 |
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You don't get that it's not a matter of "don't question what I say". Because those of us who actually are called by Jesus to 5 fold ministry in His church understand what humility and mutual respect is. I never said that anyhow. That's probably part of why it's not a perfect analogy, which I clearly stated. Maybe you want God to just let all the former FA ministers that now support Vineyard or other denominations just go around saying that baptism in Jesus name is not important or other such things without someone calling that and them out. You'll see how this goes it looks like.
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| Re: Church Government [message #11100 is a reply to message #11097] |
Tue, 29 April 2014 17:45 |
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In conclusion - My response is. Since you prefer this in open post. Your wrong in your opposition to what I was saying and your wrong in your lack of kindness and respect. Thanks.
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| Re: Church Government [message #11101 is a reply to message #11098] |
Tue, 29 April 2014 17:56 |
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James - Some people are not in biblical churches because they are stubborn. Like when they trouble people who God has sent to help and tell the truth about such matters. Some people are unruly and need to embrace The Plan of God for their life. Which btw - I can help with. I'm experiencing life and victory in Jesus. For all that trouble me -Let them ask themselves this - Am I like Jesus (ei Are you like Jesus? - in other words). That's the starting point (PS - u don't have to tell me that people have probably heard that idea before, Thanks). I am still willing to help the wandering souls. Thanks. I hate that all this has both stressed and unfortunately angered me (for that has not bode well for the angerers) (not you James - although I wish you had not been so quick to point out the negative sides). In the 5 years that you knew me - do you ever ever remember me getting in any trouble over any wrong doctrine. No - and you would have known. What has caused the stir here, I stand by. It's a good understanding of levels and spheres of authority in the church from a former AF member, who knows what mutual respect is among people in all aspects of God's church. Thanks.
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| Re: Church Government [message #11102 is a reply to message #11099] |
Tue, 29 April 2014 19:15 |
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william
Messages: 1463
Registered: January 2006 |
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| Apostle wrote on Tue, 29 April 2014 12:42 |
You don't get that it's not a matter of "don't question what I say". Because those of us who actually are called by Jesus to 5 fold ministry in His church understand what humility and mutual respect is. I never said that anyhow. That's probably part of why it's not a perfect analogy, which I clearly stated. Maybe you want God to just let all the former FA ministers that now support Vineyard or other denominations just go around saying that baptism in Jesus name is not important or other such things without someone calling that and them out. You'll see how this goes it looks like.
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It isn't that what you posited was "not a perfect analogy" --IT ISN'T AN ANALOGY AT ALL.
However, by using the analogy, it clearly reveals that you actually do think that this "chain of command", is an operational model for the christian church.
If being "kind and respectful" means that I shouldn't point out this obviously flawed understanding you posted on an open forum, then no, I guess I'm not kind and respectful, at least as you understand the phrase.
Perhaps it would be better for us all to just accept what you say, and in the spirit of kindness and respectability say amen?
William
I want to believe!
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| Re: Church Government [message #11105 is a reply to message #11101] |
Tue, 29 April 2014 20:27 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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Jeff,
If communicating on this forum is causing you anger perhaps it would be better for you to take a break. Anger is a fruit of the flesh and I'm sure you know what we're supposed to do with fleshly fruit.
You can stand by whatever you choose, but it's obvious that no one agrees with it or the manner in which you're saying it. Having been in the Air Force as a young man and seeing and understanding chains of command doesn't mean that that equates to how God has ordained the Body of Christ. Jesus is King, Lord, Head, and every other word that can be used to described His position over His Bride...the rest of us are unprofitable servants, even if He has called one to serve as an apostle, prophet, teacher, pastor, evangelist, elder; or has given one a gift that stands out to others such as healing, miracles, or wisdom. Serving Him is the very least we can do based upon what He has freely given us. "For by Grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God."
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Church Government [message #11106 is a reply to message #11080] |
Tue, 29 April 2014 22:24 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
Senior Member |
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Hi Jeff,
You said - (back at massage 11080)
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`Ask a 10 year old if they can do want they want "in church" without regard to the proper authorities. Its the same I have been saying all along.`
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Definitely in a church building there are rules & authorities people need to obey. Why? Because it is an organisation, a business & this is connected to the Government. People who go to such a public meeting choose to abide under such authorities that have been placed there.
But you meet that same titled person down the street & they do not have any authority over you unless they have mentored you & there has been trust & recognition of gifting.
The Apostle Paul said of his specific disciples -
`For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Is it not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at His coming? (1 Thess. 2: 19)
And this is how Paul treated his disciples -
`Nor did we seek glory from men, either from you or from others, when we might have made demands as apostles of Christ.
But we were gentle among you, just as a nursing mother cherishes her own children.
...our labour...our toil; for labouring night & day,....
as you know how we exhorted, & comforted, & charged every one as a father does his own children.` (1 Thess. 2: 6 - 11)
Thus you can see that there is a deep, caring & respectful relationship between Paul & his disciples at Thessalonica.
True authority is through relationship and not a title in an organisation. Interesting to note that Jesus spurned all titles that men wanted to confer upon Him.
Build relationships Jeff, & see how they would recognise you.
[Updated on: Tue, 29 April 2014 22:26]
Marilyn C
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| Re: Church Government [message #11110 is a reply to message #11101] |
Wed, 30 April 2014 13:23 |
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william
Messages: 1463
Registered: January 2006 |
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| Apostle wrote on Tue, 29 April 2014 12:56 |
I hate that all this has both stressed and unfortunately angered me (for that has not bode well for the angerers)
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Wow, I just noticed this. I'm not surprised though, you been hinting at 'calling down fire' since you started posting.
Here are some examples of veiled threats you've hinted at in this thread:
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... the clear biblical principle that Apostles are high leadership in the church. Shall I come with a rod? Let everyone that loves not the Lord Jesus be accursed. Turn such a one over to satan for the destruction of the flesh, etc. etc. etc. It's clear biblical teaching.
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Just know if you don't take the whole of scripture, you will be setting yourselves for trouble. (PS - I use the word "you" in general ei everybody, sense.) Thanks. PS - I knew this post was going to start trouble.
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God Himself can deal with the matter (or maybe they'll get turned over to Satan for destruction of the flesh?). Mostly the Apostles are the chief elders. I wouldn't want to be a false bible teacher and disregard the warnings of an Apostle.
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It is my personal opinion as why I said "I like to think of ", but I believe it is based on fact and can be helpful to understand that God is calling people to come with authority that God Himself will verify.
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... but there are so many religious who think they can just say and do what they want with out any oversight that can bring judgment.
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If people are not following scripture- Apostles, prophets, etc.- I may call them out and then we will continue to see if God responds.
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Accountability in what I'm trying to show is - that if you depart from the way of God of the scriptures and the Holy Spirit, that there are people in positions of authority in the church by virtue of God's appointment - that you may be called to account by. Think Ananias and Saphira (sp) for one. Paul gives many examples as well -as God will judge the situation.
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Maybe you want God to just let all the former FA ministers that now support Vineyard or other denominations just go around saying that baptism in Jesus name is not important or other such things without someone calling that and them out. You'll see how this goes it looks like.
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I want to believe!
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| Re: Church Government [message #11111 is a reply to message #11110] |
Wed, 30 April 2014 14:13 |
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Most all groups that I can think of in this context have authorities in them, including the military, including the church, including the public bus service, including public school, the hospital (where the staff is there to "serve", yet - Drs. Orders, etc. etc.), etc. etc.. I think it ridiculous that this is being over complicated. If you don't like it - forget it. If your like Jesus - your good.
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| Re: Church Government [message #11114 is a reply to message #11103] |
Wed, 30 April 2014 14:30 |
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So the chain here does not end with the Administrator? I've already been informed by a former member that she and others have been banned from here. In my dealing with administrators and moderators, they have a level of authority to deal with matters and they are afforded respect (sometimes respect). Just saying  . Thanks. AS is the case in many groups - there are various authorities. It's easily understood in Experience.
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| Re: Church Government [message #11116 is a reply to message #11102] |
Wed, 30 April 2014 15:00 |
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I just got a message from a guy in a church, talking about that church -- "These are good people with proper authority and common sense.". Just a blessed confirmation of what I have been saying here. Proper authority and common sense - good point. Amen. I really had some good stuff about the plan of God, and the victory in it.
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| Re: Church Government [message #11117 is a reply to message #11114] |
Wed, 30 April 2014 15:21 |
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william
Messages: 1463
Registered: January 2006 |
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| Apostle wrote on Wed, 30 April 2014 09:30 |
So the chain here does not end with the Administrator? I've already been informed by a former member that she and others have been banned from here. In my dealing with administrators and moderators, they have a level of authority to deal with matters and they are afforded respect (sometimes respect). Just saying . Thanks. AS is the case in many groups - there are various authorities. It's easily understood in Experience.
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Please, I ask that you read back over the thread. Have I threatened you? Have I intimidated you? Have I exercised *any* authority over you? Yes, I am the administrator of the forum (which by the way isn't a church). I can and do ban people from using the forum. (That, btw is not a veiled threat to you or anyone else.)
As Marilyn pointed out, the examples that you are using (military, forum administration, etc.) have nothing to do with the subject of this thread. The subject of this thread is *CHURCH* Government. Furthermore, one of the FIRST passages mentioned (and to my mind it sums up the subject of the discussion) was Mark 10:41-45.
This passage (cf. Mat 20:25-28, Luke 22:25-27) CLEARLY and ABSOLUTELY keeps us from using examples of worldly authority (forum administration, military, worldly governments, organizational authority) to describe CHURCH GOVERNMENT.
This is a forum and what we do here is discuss things. You brought up the topic and I've tried to discuss the topic. Maybe you felt threatened by someone asking questions, idunno, but this is what a forum is all about.
Here is the way that I've perceived things so far... You make a statement (pronouncement) someone (me) asks you about your pronouncement. You make more pronouncements and in the process belittle the question with examples that Jesus unequivocally states to be irrelevant to the way it should be among us. You make veiled threats, which I assume are designed to keep us from questioning your statements.
And I'm the one in the wrong here???
Please continue, you've been given the utmost respect in that you have complete freedom to make your point. I've threatened you with nothing, yet here we are, you, feeling threatened by a mere question... that you haven't answered, except by appealing to examples that have nothing to do with scriptures, things that have only to do with worldly authority (forbidden by Jesus Himself).
William
I want to believe!
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| Re: Church Government [message #11118 is a reply to message #11117] |
Wed, 30 April 2014 18:26 |
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Leaders in the church have the responsibility and authority to make the final decisions and policies and such on church matters. Just like it works in many groups. The concept of authority doesn't change just because it's church and I've given many examples of when the Apostles used that authority for judgment or policy. That Matthew verse is better understood more about attitude than execution. The 5 - fold ministry are God's leaders (with authority) in God's church. ITS CLEAR AND PLAIN IN THE BIBLE.
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| Re: Church Government [message #11119 is a reply to message #11117] |
Wed, 30 April 2014 18:39 |
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Matt verse - Was Jesus not Lord and King because He took on the form of a servant. Being a servant and having authority are not mutually exclusive, contrarily they are almost always together. Service and authority often go hand in hand. I don't live in a cave so I live and understand these such things. William used "bus driver" comment. I ride the bus every day, the bus driver provides a service - act up and you'll get thrown off the bus. Police - to serve and protect, but, break the law and see what happens. Service and authority don't have to conflict. They are often both in the position. Service and authority are both part of the 5 - fold ministry call. I'm walking in victory in Jesus - are you? A lot of people need deliverance, but are not getting it, because they are not fulfilling the Plan of God for their lives. The anointing breaks the yokes.
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| Re: Church Government [message #11121 is a reply to message #11115] |
Wed, 30 April 2014 19:14 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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| Apostle wrote on Wed, 30 April 2014 09:32 |
James - sometimes anger is justified.
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Rather than go on ad nauseam why don't we agree that we don't all agree. Just from reading The New Testament we know that there was Biblical authority established in the early church. To the church at Corinth Paul told them to exercise discipline concerning the man who was involved in fornication (I Corinthian 5). We know from this that someone had to carry out the instructions Paul sent(I know that they as an assembly in unity agreed to put the sinning member out, but I'd think the elders there initiated the action) But then having reread the chapter I'd conclude that they(the entire assembly) had to do some repenting themselves for allowing it to go on.
Anyway, I think the problem is more so a lack of clear communication and maybe they 'way' it was said. One thing is clear (to me), Paul or none of the other Apostles(Peter, James, John) lorded over the church but rather served them. Paul often in his letters expressed how he loved them and with tears and prayers sought their growth and perfection in Christ.
So if you're an apostle Jeff, as you say you are, try to emulate Paul or even better, Jesus. Heb.3:1 And walk in love of the brethren.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Church Government [message #11123 is a reply to message #11118] |
Wed, 30 April 2014 20:51 |
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william
Messages: 1463
Registered: January 2006 |
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| Apostle wrote on Wed, 30 April 2014 13:26 |
Leaders in the church have the responsibility and authority to make the final decisions and policies and such on church matters. Just like it works in many groups. The concept of authority doesn't change just because it's church and I've given many examples of when the Apostles used that authority for judgment or policy. That Matthew verse is better understood more about attitude than execution. The 5 - fold ministry are God's leaders (with authority) in God's church. ITS CLEAR AND PLAIN IN THE BIBLE.
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Again with the apostles... tsk, tsk... but I'm through trying to get a straight answer concerning my question.
Elders (whatever their gifts i.e. apostle, prophet, tongue-speaker, etc.) have authority concerning the welfare of the local church. (In most cases there will be more than one elder and they all should be of one mind) The elder's 'authority' is in the area of the purity of the doctrines taught and the purity of the church's witness to the community. Practically speaking this means they guard and watch over (oversee) the church of God.
If a brother sins or if a brother teaches false doctrine, then those are issues that are under the elder's purview. They are essentially operating in a bishop/overseers type of position.
Apostles, prophets, or teachers don't automatically fall into this narrowly defined group... they may, but the call to oversee the assembly, isn't inherent to their function (as apostles, prophets, teachers, etc..) i.e. There is NO chain of command that begins with the apostle and ends with the lowest member on this non-existant chain.
Persons who are charged with being overseers will have people that have willingly (without coercion) chosen to follow their leadership. People are under no compulsion to follow these overseers if, for various reasons, their leadership becomes authoritarian in nature.
An analogy might be the one presented in the husband and wife relationship. In this relationship you have a wife who freely decides to yoke herself to a man in order to be in a married state. She has freedom to choose who she decides to follow (just as every free-born-liberty-loving Christian is free to choose a local assembly).
There are 'roles' in a marriage and when one chooses to marry, presumably they are marrying in order to fulfill one of the roles.
A husband has been given a leadership role in the marriage and the wife chooses to 'submit' to that leadership.
This is all well and good as long as the husband knows and understands his leadership role. He can't command or make his wife do anything. If he tries to dominate his wife in things that aren't covered in his job title, he may find himself dealing with someone who knows and understands her liberty in Christ and she may decide that his leadership has turned into some type of authoritarianism and refuse to obey.
For instance, she may hate cold weather but the husband has just been transferred to Alaska. If she wants to keep the 'marriage' intact she will submit to his leadership and move to Alaska. He is the leader, she willingly contracted to be his wife, she should go. If she doesn't, then the marriage is in reality, no marriage at all. It's a sham.
The extent of the husband's leadership isn't absolute however. He has no authority over her conscience at all. He can't make her do anything. (Why would he want to?) He can persuade her to follow by being a good example, but that's about it. If she follows his leadership, she should do it willingly -- because she values the marriage relationship and wants to keep that intact -- not by compulsion.
The same kind of thing can be seen in a church situation. You attend the assembly that best suits your idea of a biblical church. All is well and good, and as long as you don't try to teach false doctrine or decide you want to live in open sin, then there will never be a time when the eldership's 'authority' will even be known or experienced. Their purview extends only to doctrinal purity and the church's witness to the community (if open sin is allowed to persist).
Again, the only authority the eldership of the church has over another's life is to the extent of protecting the church.
A church member smears the rest of the church, deal with it. A church member teaches false doctrine, deal with it. No authority is given to any individual to lord over any other individual--no matter what their title. In other words there isn't any chain of command for individuals in the Church of God.
William
[Updated on: Thu, 01 May 2014 04:54]
I want to believe!
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| Re: Church Government [message #11124 is a reply to message #11123] |
Wed, 30 April 2014 23:42 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
Senior Member |
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Hi William,
I thought what you wrote was very good. Quite explanatory.
(Might have to have a big discussion `bout Alaska, though.  )
Now Jeff,
You said on this thread & other -
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`A lot of people need deliverance, but are not getting it, because they are not fulfilling the Plan of God for their lives. The anointing breaks the yokes.`
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`I am convinced that most people need serious deliverance, but since they are not fulfilling the plan of God for their lives, they are not receiving the anointing to get delivered.`
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Do you realise that God tells us in His word what His plan is for us-
`For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son....(Rom. 8: 29)
How wonderful is that. There is nothing, no nothing greater than to be like Jesus. Thus we can expect, as James the Apostle, says
`My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.....etc ` (James 1: 2 & 3)
Thus we are by God`s word told that we are being made like Christ through many & varied trials & difficulties. Any thing else is for service for the building up of the Body of Christ.
There are many people who use the `carrot,` of `you don`t know what God`s plan for your life is,` as though it`s some great earthly thing such as - fame, fortune, great earthly blessings, etc, etc. And because people are going through trials etc (to be made like Christ) they can get deceived by smooth talking people who keep this carrot continually before them, saying if you only did this & this, gave this & that, had my anointing placed upon you etc, etc.
To be like Christ is God`s great desire for us & as the Apostle Paul says we press on towards that upward, high calling in Christ Jesus - to be not only where He is (in the realms of the 3rd heaven) but to be able to live there, thus needing to have a glorified body like Christ`s that can go through time & different realms.
What a Saviour, what an inheritance. I will NEVER desire any earthly `mess of pottage.` But Jesus only.
[Updated on: Wed, 30 April 2014 23:43]
Marilyn C
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| Re: Church Government [message #11129 is a reply to message #11128] |
Thu, 01 May 2014 03:18 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
Senior Member |
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Hi William,
I thought you meant that but wanted a plug for Aussie land. Also as the earth is a sphere & the Lord hangs it on nothing (Job 26: 7) who is to say who is down & who is up. The Lord of course.
Marilyn C
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| Re: Church Government [message #11134 is a reply to message #11012] |
Thu, 01 May 2014 17:38 |
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When You teach " You attend the assembly that best suits your idea of a biblical church.". That's not how I do. I use that criteria (biblical church) as a general framework of interest and prayer. Then based on the revelation of the Holy Spirit - then I attend this church or that church, go here or there, do this or that. That's how bible Christians walk - the sons of God are led by The Spirit of God. Intellect is for certain applications. Not for determining what to do - that's the Spirit's realm.
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| Re: Church Government [message #11135 is a reply to message #11124] |
Thu, 01 May 2014 17:50 |
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Marilyn,
When you have demon’s (which, most do), you will not be like Yahshua. Ro.8:28 is one verse in a large book of verses. God has an end time plan – I know in part what it is (part of why He is sending me). If you want to get in on God's end-time plan –fine. If you want to see how you do without God’s 5 – fold ministers that He has appointed – you won’t do well. I am amazed that I must belabor these simple basic ideas in the life with Jesus and in His church.
You people should listen to what I'm saying - I know what I'm talking about and live Victory in Jesus. Thanks.
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| Re: Church Government [message #11137 is a reply to message #11124] |
Thu, 01 May 2014 18:50 |
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The plan of God that I'm referring to has to do with - What is God calling you to do with your life and then may involve such things as where you live and who you associate with and such. I don't tell people (so far) what that plan is (unless I was to know, I might). But I can help people to get on that general path that will help them to fulfill God's specific plan for their life.
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| Re: Church Government [message #11138 is a reply to message #11135] |
Thu, 01 May 2014 22:31 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
Senior Member |
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Hi Jeff,
Just to let you know concerning my beliefs & relationship with the 5-fold, ascension ministries. I am a 3rd generation Apostolic. I was brought up in the Apostolic denomination & believe in Christ`s ascension ministries. I have been privileged to be under the ministry of all such godly men who came from Wales, Scotland & England. My grandfather & uncle (who is still alive in his 90`s) not only were/are recognised apostles but also became the President of the movement (denomination) in Australia & New Zealand.
I have been blessed to receive not only the Holy Spirit`s teaching & ministry through them but to know them personally as they have visited the family home & now my husband & my home here.
So with over 60 years of experience in the 5-fold ministry it is a joy to me to see the revelation going out across the Body of Christ as His Holy Spirit is leading us into all the truth of Christ, His character & His Purposes.
Marilyn C
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| Re: Church Government [message #11155 is a reply to message #11138] |
Mon, 05 May 2014 14:32 |
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From time to time I find people who have claimed to be Apostles. I am always interested - what makes these people feel they are Apostles. The two I am presently thinking of - One thinks woman are 5 ministry offices, and one is into a concept called "mentoring" - both ideas I either disagree with or have serious questions about.
I think some denominations vote or appoint "Apostles".
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| Re: Church Government [message #11163 is a reply to message #11139] |
Tue, 06 May 2014 17:06 |
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Although I would think you guys already know who I'm referring to? Yahshua is just a adaptation of Joshua. Since there is no J sound in Hebrew. Some people use this version for salvation of the Lord, or salvation of Yah, Yah is salvation/deliverance. Joshua/Jesus. Works for me.
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