Home » Discussion Area » Rant/Rave » Lakeland Revival???
| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2101 is a reply to message #2095] |
Mon, 16 June 2008 17:31   |
 jisamazed
Messages: 170
Registered: January 2008
Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
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| jisamazed wrote on Sat, 14 June 2008 20:10 |
I'm familiar with another charismatic teacher that had good theology, but several times he made the statement, "There is nothing in scripture that says that we are justified by the blood. We are only justified by the resurrection." Should I write that teacher off just because of that errant statement? Should I give him some room to grow and receive correction?
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I'm having a very difficult time, understanding why ANYONE would want to sit under the ministry of ANYBODY who obviously knows less than they, and especially someone who is so obviously steeped in error.
...and I really don't care if God CAN use a rock or an ass to speak through, I know that He can, but that doesn't mean that I'm gonna park my can by one waiting to see if God will.
...to me...that hypothetical situation is just another case of not recognizing where white ends and black begins.
Interesting. The charismatic teacher to whom I am referring was Hobart Freeman. He made that statement twice. One time occured in the Romans series. Another time was either in the theology series or a separate message on justification (it's been over 20 years and I don't have access to those tapes now). I just about fell out of my chair when I heard him say it because he was normally careful about theology. However, he had this problem with making overstatements. By the way, Romans 5:9 states clearly that we are justified by Jesus' blood.
Apply the same all-or-nothing thinking to HEF as you do to anyone else. In addition to his occasional errant theological statements, he was also heavily influenced by Ken Hagin early in his charismatic ministry, not to mention that he worked with Paul Cain once and several other characters who have turned out to be questionable. That influence was a factor in some of his extreme faith teaching, even after he detached himself from them, IMO, especially regarding prosperity.
If we will write Steve Hill off because of his associations, we will have to write off just about everyone if we are going to be consistent.
God seems to be healing some people in Lakeland in spite of Todd's issues, not necessarily because he is anointed by God. The Lord honors the faith of His people, even if the person's faith is released in a questionable environment. If the Lord is really doing miracles like that, then some godly people will be drawn to it, naive as they might be about stuff.
Either way, we should be praying for Todd that he will operate by the Holy Spirit instead of Emma and that he will learn to discern and reject all of the weird theology and practices. I see no precedent in scripture for refusing to pray for someone. We need to be careful that we don't take on a Jonah mentality, where he was so eager for the judgment of the Lord on a given people that he was disappointed when the Lord had mercy on them.
Amazed smitten astonished stunned floored blown away astounded shocked flabbergasted surprised wonderfully devastated awed shattered overwhelmed incredulous speechless sense of wonder at the love of God.
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2117 is a reply to message #2102] |
Wed, 18 June 2008 16:49 |
jisamazed
Messages: 170
Registered: January 2008
Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
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| james wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 16:07 |
I too, felt in my spirit that the question was loaded...just for Hombre,I thought he might be refering to Bro. Freeman...
Though I have no memory of the statement he is refering to...But I can almost hear the tape players being turned on as people rush to check.
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James, I only used a "loaded" question in order to make a point. Jesus did the same thing to the pharisees, at least twice. The pharisees did it to Him as well, but in their case they were just trying to make Him look bad rather than establish a point, and He called them on it. The "loaded" question was actually a common way for Jews to teach each other back then. If you visit a traditional Yeshiva even nowadays you will observe it happening.
The point I was trying to make was that we need to apply the same standard to all ministries and not be a respecter of persons. If we give some grace to Hobart Freeman or Smith Wigglesworth to make erroneous statements, we need to give the same grace to every one else who has flaws (all of us). That being said, I do believe that HEF usually had excellent theology and that was one of his strengths. His statement about justification is an exception to the rule, and it does not mean that he was a heretic in any way. Todd Bentley's practical theology is dangerous, and I do not recommend that anyone sit under his teaching at this time.
[Updated on: Wed, 18 June 2008 16:49]
Amazed smitten astonished stunned floored blown away astounded shocked flabbergasted surprised wonderfully devastated awed shattered overwhelmed incredulous speechless sense of wonder at the love of God.
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2118 is a reply to message #2101] |
Wed, 18 June 2008 17:10 |
jisamazed
Messages: 170
Registered: January 2008
Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
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..right now, I'm beginning to wonder what side you're on. I think you'll search in vain to find me supporting Hobart or anyone else without reservation, as though I have some sort of respect towards persons that goes beyond my respect for the Word of God.
I have denounced Todds' ministry from the get-go of my contact with that information, yet you are attempting to find some crack in my armor, to whip me under submission with, in order to align my viewpoint with some pre-established modicum of Christian mediocrity that overlooks things like occultism on the part of ministers of the gospel.
Certainly not. I have actually come under fire from others for warning people about certain ministries. To be frank, and maybe I am simply reacting in a fleshly way, I am annoyed by what seems to be an attitude of "all the church is backslidden and all charismatics are stupid and no church is good enough for me" mentality, even though you are a part of the church and you are charismatic. I see that mentality as being the major source of Faith Assembly's downfall, and I hate to see it perpetuated. But I don't know your heart, and it would be wrong for me to assume I know your motivations. Ironically, I think we actually agree with each other more than we realize, but our personalities and writing techniques are vastly different. When iron sharpens iron, sometimes sparks fly.
The point is, Jiz, that Todd is leading a delusional march that multitudes of well-meaning but slow-witted people are falling prey to. And you, though not actually supporting him, are encouraging us to give him some space....as though we should continue clapping as his revue passes the stands, lest we should offend someone, or that someone who is from out-of-town should find out that we have a demon leading our hometown parade.
Sorry dude, but I'm up here throwing all the tomatoes I can get my hands on, and booing as loud as I can....and once this parade is over, I am going to find every able bodied MAN I can find to work him over under the stands....I shall be wearing my combat boots, and pronouncing healing to his face.
Hombre, my role in this matter right now is that of a reporter who is trying to observe the event as objectively as possible. I'm not joining the parade, nor am I throwing tomatoes, nor am I in stands encouraging people to clap. I am watching the parade and tomato throwers and processing my observations best I can. I respect your role to warn people right now, and I will be doing the same thing in my own way, but right now I am still an observer, gathering information and giving my opinion when I believe that I can do so with confidence.
Amazed smitten astonished stunned floored blown away astounded shocked flabbergasted surprised wonderfully devastated awed shattered overwhelmed incredulous speechless sense of wonder at the love of God.
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2120 is a reply to message #2117] |
Wed, 18 June 2008 17:31 |
james
Messages: 2138
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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Amazed James,
I knew you were making a point, and I agree that we shouldn't be a respecter of persons. I also agree that Todd Bentley's theology is dangerous.
IMO, what he's doing to gullible christians is as dangerous as it gets. And I too, like Hombre, am glad that you have came to understand that as well.
[Opps, update: did I jump the gun? Yep! still gathering info...o.k. work at your own pace.]
I would like to thank you as well for causing me to grow in knowledge and understanding today concerning the "traditional Yeshiva". And while I probably won't be going there to observe
how they learn from each other, at least the next time I hear the term "Yeshiva", I'll know a bit about what the person's talking about...
( cause I had to google, yeshiva to find out...) Hey! this is the "bible belt", if it ain't baptist or pentecostal...well, you get my drift.
Every house don't got a Torah on the coffee table... 
[Updated on: Wed, 18 June 2008 17:39]
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2130 is a reply to message #2101] |
Thu, 19 June 2008 16:35 |
jisamazed
Messages: 170
Registered: January 2008
Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
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Hey, everyone. Todd Bentley just wrote an open letter in order to address some of the criticisms toward him and bring some clarification on some matters. Take a look at it and read it carefully and prayerfully and tell me what you think.
http://www.freshfire.ca/?Id=1059&pid=993
Amazed smitten astonished stunned floored blown away astounded shocked flabbergasted surprised wonderfully devastated awed shattered overwhelmed incredulous speechless sense of wonder at the love of God.
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2149 is a reply to message #2130] |
Fri, 20 June 2008 17:09 |
jisamazed
Messages: 170
Registered: January 2008
Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
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Hombre said, "That does not however, deal with any of the issues that have been raised. All this does, is the same thing that he attempts to do in his meetings:
Create acceptance of him as a man of God, based upon supernatural manifestations, instead of: the vindication of Gods' Word through signs and wonders."
I agree that miracles and signs are not an end in themselves. The purpose of signs following is to validate the message preached. In the NT, that message was the good news of Jesus Christ. In a pagan world that believed in many gods or a Jewish world that believed strongly in the Torah, the NT Christians performed signs and wonders to show that their message was not just another religion or story. The Lord showed people through the Christians that Jesus really is alive, because the signs and wonders were done in His name. This is what Todd seems to be attempting to do. However, he needs to exercise care that the emphasis be on the word that is preached, not on the miracles.
Where are the teachings from Todd on anything but the manifestation of the supernatural?
Actually, Todd has a wealth of different messages on his web site. Many of them talk about miracles and visitations from angels and are standard charismatic fare, but some of them are actually pretty good messages about repentence or spiritual warfare. His statement of faith is 98% solid. He includes the 4 spiritual laws in an effort to communicate the good news, which does an adequate job and does not convey a "turn over a new leaf" kind of false gospel.
Jiz, I also see you as one who desperately wants to believe that this is 'the real thing'...
...I haven't endured all this to be suckered into a counterfeit operation because I'm desperate.
I don't know that I'm desparate for it. Maybe I need to be. But I've seen the Lord heal people and respond to prayer supernaturally enough that I am not moved by revivals or false revivals either way. My desire is to see more signs and wonders through the Lord's people in every day life, such as when Peter and John passed by the lame man while walking to the temple, or when Paul cast a demon out of the girl. Signs and wonders took place in the context of evangelism, out in the world. They are much more effective for the preaching of the gospel that way than in an auditorium or church building. And I think that Todd would agree.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit as explained in I Corinthians, however, show that the Lord also does such things in a setting of a community of believers in order to build them up. They need help, and he helps them through the gifts of the Spirit.
The sheep hear His voice and follow Him.
...and what is His voice?
The content of the Bible. Its' teachings on everything that pertains to life and godliness.
Is that really what Jesus was saying? "My sheep listen to what I say in the Torah?" I'm sure that it includes that, but in the context of Him being our shepherd, I believe that He is stating that when He calls us to go somewhere, we will know that it is Him calling us and not someone else. Theives could try to call some sheep out of the fold in order to steal them away, but the sheep won't listen. They will only move from their pasture when the shepherd calls, and no one else. In other words, we will hear from the Lord clearly.
That having been said, I agree that the teaching of scripture needs to drive the message and miracles, not the other way around.
What we need at this point Jiz, is a written breakdown of all that is unscriptural about Todds' ministry in order to clarify the problem to those who want to continue arguing for him.
I agree. I wish I had more time to do it more quickly. You and others have already covered some bases. At this point I still think that it is a mixed bag, much like some other revivals over the past 15 years. Todd does not have the arrogance or blatent theological problems that some Word of Faith preachers have. However, his lack of grounding in the word in some areas has left him open to dangerous influences. The angelic visitations just don't add up. I don't stumble over tattoos per se, but I have red flags about some of HIS tattoos, especially the skull and rose and warrior guy.
At this point I am still the reporter on the sidelines, observing and taking notes.
Amazed smitten astonished stunned floored blown away astounded shocked flabbergasted surprised wonderfully devastated awed shattered overwhelmed incredulous speechless sense of wonder at the love of God.
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2175 is a reply to message #2149] |
Wed, 25 June 2008 17:32 |
james
Messages: 2138
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Preach on, Bro Hombre...
AMEN! HALLELUJAH!!!
Yet in the midst of all this turmoil, we have a refuge...
"I will say of the Lord, HE is my refuge and my fortress:
my God; in HIM will I trust." Ps.91:2
And through it all; war, famine, floods, inflation, false prophets,
deceptions in the church,spiritual wickedness in high places;
we have peace through faith in HIS promises...
"Because thou hast made the Lord, which is my refuge, even the most High,
thy habitation; There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague
come nigh thy dwelling." Ps.91:9-10
AND ALL GOD'S PEOPLE SAID...AMEN!!!
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2207 is a reply to message #1939] |
Tue, 01 July 2008 04:13 |
watchman
Messages: 16
Registered: April 2008
Location: North Carolina |
Junior Member |
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I thought that since you were discussing the Lakeland revival that you might be interested in this article written by Rick Joyner. And, my opinion is that there seems to be both good and bad in these revivals (I believe that the bible makes clear that Jesus and later the new testament church had many of the same problems of both good and evil in the crowd when ministry was going on.
Here is the link to get the whole article:
http://www.morningstarministries.org/Publisher/Article.aspx? id=1000033961
And now a page of the article:
The History and Future of the Present Revival - Part 6 View Part 1
The Ordination
This past Monday I was invited to the Lakeland Revival to be present at Todd Bentley’s ordination. For the sake of clarity, this was not Todd’s ordination into ministry, which he received long ago, but was a specific ordination by a small group including Bill Johnson, Che Ahn, and John Arnott. These three have agreed to help oversee Todd’s ministry for the “Lakeland Revival.” It was a unique and specific type of ordination that I think the Lord was in. I was asked to be there with some others who represent different streams that appreciate and support what is happening in Lakeland and Todd’s ministry in particular. I also wanted to be there to express the high degree of trust and appreciation for the three who have agreed to oversee Todd’s ministry in this way.
The Lakeland Revival is now a world event, touching many nations and denominations. As its impact has grown, so has the controversy and persecution. That is standard for any true move of God, and we should not be surprised by it. This is especially true of ministries or movements that release God’s power for healing, miracles, and deliverance. When the Lord Jesus started performing miracles, the persecution began in earnest. When the miracles became more spectacular, the persecution increased. When He raised someone from the dead, the conservative religious community of the times resolved to kill Him. That startling hardness of heart is the result of letting a religious spirit gain dominion in our lives. A main strategy of the religious spirit is to get us to honor what God has done in order to justify persecuting what He is doing.
I have known Todd Bentley for about a decade, and he is a man of exceptional theological depth, revelatory gifting, and the leader of a large and growing multi-faceted ministry that has had a significant impact on many nations. I have been to Abbotsford, B.C. a few times to speak at Fresh Fire Conferences, and I always marvel at the substance and excellence of what Todd has been able to build in such a short period of time as well as the quality of people on his team.
I am saying all of this because there is much more to Todd Bentley and Fresh Fire Ministries than has yet been revealed through what is now happening in Lakeland. I know Todd as someone who can teach or preach with a rare depth and clarity, but Lakeland is not really about that, at least not yet. It is about an impartation of faith, power, and fire. Right now we, the body of Christ, need these more than we need more teaching and strategy.
One of the basic laws of physics applies here. You cannot change the direction of an object unless it is moving, and before we need more strategy and direction, we need to wake up the church and get it moving. Lakeland is waking up the church, including the many who are naysayers and critics, but at least she is being awakened.
Now I do not want to dismiss all of the naysayers or critics too quickly. They serve their purpose and can be very helpful, even if not in the way that they presume. This is not to say that Todd or the Lakeland Revival do not need correction or cannot make mistakes. Todd is not perfect and neither is anyone else I know. However, if someone is going to criticize, we need to check their credentials. If someone has a significant healing and miracle ministry, we should listen to them in relation to the ministry of healing and miracles. If someone has been used to start and shepherd a significant revival, I would listen to him much more about his views of a revival than someone who has only read or written about them.
A Chord of Three Strands
Now let’s look briefly at the credentials of the three who have agreed to oversee Todd’s ministry in the Lakeland Revival. John Arnott was used by God to start and oversee the extraordinary Toronto Renewal. This is a move of God that has touched and helped heal and renew multitudes of believers, churches, and even whole movements and denominations, around the world. It is also a fire that has continued to burn for over a decade—a remarkable accomplishment in the history of revivals and renewal movements. With this kind of experience, it makes him a true elder in the church in the gate of renewal or revival movements.
Bill Johnson not only has a significant healing and miracle ministry, but he is one of the greatest equippers who has been used to help release and mature these gifts in thousands of students who have come through his school in Redding, California, as well as stirring them up in a large part of the body of Christ through his books, teachings, and travels. Bill has done this from and through the local church setting, seeking to release these gifts in a major way to and through the church. Throughout much of the advancing church at this time, Bill Johnson would be in just about everyone’s top few of authorities on healing, miracles, and understanding the supernatural aspects of the Christian walk.
Che Ahn is one of the emerging great church builders. He is not only the leader of a significant church in Pasadena, but Harvest International Ministries is now a network of hundreds of churches. He is a church man who loves the church, and his heartbeat message is about building the church with a kingdom perspective. Lou Engle, the leader of The Call, one of the most powerful ministries mobilizing the youth and intercessory prayer in our times, was raised up under Che Ahn. When they called together youth to the mall in Washington a few years ago, more than 400,000 responded. On August 16, The Call in Washington could gather even more. Che Ahn knows how to build healthy local churches, to raise up and release new movements, as well as help oversee huge gatherings of God’s people for important events.
My point is that the three who Todd now has as overseers have a unique and extraordinary deposit of experience and wisdom in the important areas that are being touched by the Lakeland Revival. They are also all strong and successful local church builders. It would be hard for me to think of three more brilliant choices for this, and I greatly appreciate Todd’s wisdom in it.
Does this mean that everything in Lakeland is perfect or will be perfect? Of course not. As qualified as these three may be to oversee this, they are all very busy. They cannot micromanage what is happening in Lakeland, but they will be there to step in if there are serious issues that need to be addressed. It is my conviction that this ordination can help keep the Lakeland Revival on track and help it to have much more longevity.
Stephen Strader, the pastor of Ignited Church where this revival broke out, is also a man of great wisdom and depth in all of these areas. He is a revivalist who moves in a great power ministry himself, but he is also a true pastor with a pastor’s heart. As a local church leader in Lakeland, vitally in touch with the revival from the beginning, I really could not think of anyone I would rather have on the ground there than Strader, knowing that he will not hesitate to help give input when it is needed.
I think the Lakeland Revival is now about as well-covered and overseen as I could imagine it being done. Great revivals, even in recent times, have been shut down by officials coming in to oversee and dictate policy who were not really in touch with the heart and spirit of the revival. This is always a dangerous thing for any movement or revival, but I think this one was divinely ordained and can enable what is happening in Lakeland to go to a new level.
Personal Observations from Lakeland
I was only in Lakeland for a few hours and had to leave the meeting right after the ordination. I also try to keep in mind that “we see in part.” Even so, the following is a little more from a personal perspective about what is happening in Lakeland.
When I first heard about the outbreak in Lakeland, I felt that it was the beginning of something very significant and maybe the beginning of what we have been waiting for. When I first watched some of it on God-TV, I became even more excited. After being there for just a few minutes, I was even more so. This is a major impartation from God, and it will have significant consequences for what is about to unfold.
I wanted to go to the tent before many people did so I could get a feel for the place, but there were already thousands worshiping, praying, and fellowshipping there long before the meeting was to start. The place was charged with expectation. I saw many people I knew, and everyone I saw seemed more alive than the last time I’d seen them, even people from our own congregation at Heritage. I took a seat on the second row to kind of absorb the atmosphere. The quickening was so strong that I decided if nothing happened from the platform, it was well worth coming to just sit in that quickening atmosphere.
They came to get me to sit on the platform, and it was interesting how the anointing seemed different there. It was still good, but different. Even so, I enjoyed seeing Todd and a number of other friends I had not seen in awhile. When Todd came over and put his arm around me, it was a hug, but I also felt that I kind of needed to hold him up. He is under the kind of anointing that does stagger you and actually makes you feel drunk, which is why they thought the disciples on the Day of Pentecost were drunk with wine. Under this kind of anointing, I knew Todd might not be able to do some of the in-depth teaching and preaching he is capable of, but I don’t think that is really the purpose of Lakeland anyway.
Probably the greatest revival in church history was The Welsh Revival of 1904 – 1906, and there was no significant message that came out of it other than God moving and awakening His church, which it did around the world. The Azusa Street Revival was different—it was about the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Even though the main theme of Lakeland seems to be the healing and miracles, I think it may actually be about something more, but more subtle.
In studying Azusa Street and the writings that came out of the early leaders of the Pentecostal Movement, I occasionally happened upon a remarkable belief that many of them had. They were convinced that what they had received was the true baptism in the Holy Spirit, but many were still looking for another baptism to come—the baptism of fire. As is typical of this type of thing, even with the baptism in the Holy Spirit before it came, there was not much definition given to what they thought the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire would be like. Many were expecting another element (the fire aspect) of the baptism, but I never read where any thought that they had received this aspect.
Of course, the theology of this is debatable, but I have expected a baptism of fire to come upon the church that would so consume the Laodicean lukewarmness that the church would be radically transformed by it. I have prophesied it in a number of ways which has been sown throughout my writings and messages, mostly as a great passion for the Lord. I saw that this passion for Jesus would be so contagious that anyone who got close to it would be infected, and once infected could never be cured! It was a fiery love for the Son of God that would come upon the church so that she would truly do everything she needed to do to be a worthy bride prepared for the coming King. This fire would also make His messengers like flames of fire burning with passion for His gospel and His purposes.
I know that Lakeland is mostly about healing and miracles, which are crucial aspects of the Lord’s ministry that are being reawakened in the church and imparted to many there. Even so, I felt fire when I was there. I am not yet saying this is it, but I think one thing that is being released there is at least a preparation for a coming baptism of fire upon the church. We may not be able to give the true definition of this until it has come. At the very least, those who come to Lakeland with an open heart will leave with a renewed fire in their heart for the Lord.
The Lakeland Revival has already become a major infusion of zeal for the Lord that is impacting a large part of the church in a very positive way. For too many years, almost every Christian leader was saying “the Lord is about to do something.” Now almost everyone I talk to is saying “the Lord is doing something!” Where there has been hope, it has jumped into faith and expectation, and where the Lord finds this He will do wonders.
Todd has an amazing depth, maturity, and wisdom for his age, but he is still young. He might say some things wrong occasionally and say or do things that are hard to understand. His tattoos are real hard for some people to take, but those tattoos seem to be the very thing that have attracted many, especially the emerging generation, to him and his message. I have heard numerous reports of people who have become almost addicted to watching the revival on God-TV because they were channel surfing and were so captivated by Todd’s appearance when that they could not stop watching. Then they started listening. Now they are on fire for God.
Even those who would never get a tattoo at least view him as a genuine person with no facades. My opinion of Todd for the years I have known him is that he is one of the most genuine people I have ever known, still untainted by religion, but one of the greatest lovers of God and His truth. He is also deeply compassionate, and is greatly touched by people’s infirmities, which is always the foundation of a true healing ministry. Todd is the real thing, and he has many very real people around him who are true friends of God.
As stated, that does not mean Todd could never stumble or make mistakes. He could just like any of us. I think Todd is a lot like the Peter, who would either walk on water or drown trying. He will press the limits, and like Peter, be used for some of the greatest breakthroughs, but at times need a severe rebuke. People with that nature do make mistakes, but they are also the ones who do the greatest exploits, and it is obvious that the Lord really loves people like Peter. If Peter had not been there on the Day of Pentecost, there probably would not have been a harvest of three thousand souls, but maybe only twenty.
Todd has been sent to offend the religious spirit and to be an offense to the complacent, and thank the Lord it is working. Todd came to Concord, North Carolina last week to do a one night meeting. The arena was packed to overflowing with eight thousand people, and reports were that there were as many turned away as who got in. There was gridlock on Hwy 49 for over six miles. When the police drove up and down the road, telling people to go home because no more could get into the arena, crowds poured out of their cars just to worship on the side of the road. That sounds like true revival to me.
Usually your greatest strengths can also be your greatest weaknesses, and Todd is vulnerable. Everyone has blindsides, and though I appreciate Todd seeking covering from those he thinks can help him stay on track, no amount of human covering can keep us from making mistakes. It is also hard to be on stage every night for as long as he is and not occasionally say or do something wrong or foolish.
If Todd does something foolish, it will probably be in front of an international television audience. He has many critics that are waiting like packs of wolves to jump on anything they can. The more that power is released, the more vicious these attacks will become. We really need to discern between the voice of the true shepherds and the voice of the accuser of the brethren, who will use any inroad he can to get brethren to accuse other brethren. Historically, the most vicious of all attacks have come from threatened church leaders, especially the leaders of the previous move of God. This is a terrible tragedy that we really need to pray will get broken this time.
The Breakout at Heritage
The Lord continues to move in a very powerful way at Heritage. Every night is different, but every time we have thought that we might be in a bit of a resting place, it seems to go up a level. We are experiencing remarkable acts of God every night. Usually it happens in the meetings, but often some of the greatest things still happen after the meetings, in the parking lot, or in almost any place at any time. This is really keeping us on our toes and is quickening people to be far more sensitive to the Lord.
After school let out and our kids went off for the summer, we did not know if the Holy Spirit might leave with them, since they were the fire-starters and carried a lot of the fire. However, we can now say that the Holy Spirit stayed. It is a little different, and we look forward to the kids coming back to school, but the Lord is still moving powerfully. Even in the most laidback meetings it is still more intense than our best ones just a few months ago. We are also still experiencing significant miracles every night. Many are stopping by to stay a day or two with us at Heritage on their way to or from Lakeland. Most of these are now carriers of the fire, so we are getting really blessed by them too.
Even though we are having the greatest move of God we have ever had in many ways, we continue to hear from the Lord that what we are experiencing now is just the beginning, and it is not yet even the full birth of what is to come, which we are expecting this coming fall. That is why we have moved our Harvest and Worship & Warfare Conferences to September 18-24, and from what we have been shown, this will be a very important time. We would love for as many of you as possible to join with us. If you are planning to come, it would be a good idea to register as early as you can, especially if you want to stay in a room at Heritage.
To prepare for this next level that we have been shown is coming, we are calling for a 40-day consecration fast beginning this Sunday, June 29 through August 7. We were shown these 40 days that would end on August 8 in a dream, but since Todd Bentley is scheduled to be with us August 7, we decided to end the fast on that day, and prepare a feast on August 8.
(Click here to go to the 40-day Fast Sign-up Sheet)
We would appreciate any who want to join with us in this fast in any way that you feel led. There are many kinds of fasts—from a fast of nothing but water or juice, to fasting from desserts, television, or just about anything else. You might want to just take a day, or a few days during this time. We only ask that you do something to consecrate your heart to the Lord, and use the time to seek Him and pray for a true “Great Awakening” of the church. You can also sign up for this fast on our website so that we are praying for each other too.
If you are still looking for a place to spend your vacation, or any part of it, we would love for to come visit us at Heritage. I also highly recommend that if you can, go to Lakeland. What is happening there is already making history, and it is still building. If you can’t go to Lakeland, pray for them. Many are experiencing an impartation, and many miracles are taking place with those watching it on God-TV, so if you can’t go, watch it on TV. Also, you can web-stream our meetings at Heritage, and we now have archives for our web-streamers so you can download the meetings at your time of convenience.
These really are the times we have all be dreaming of. They are already better in some ways than we were expecting, but the promise is that they are yet to get even much better. There is just no end to the goodness of God. Regardless of whether you can make it to Lakeland, Heritage, or the other places that are now experiencing a breakthrough, you can meet with Him right where you are. Let us not be like the cripple who was sitting by the healing pool, waiting for someone to come stir the waters, when the King Himself was standing right next to him!
Watchman
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2209 is a reply to message #2207] |
Tue, 01 July 2008 16:10 |
james
Messages: 2138
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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I really want to be done with this Bentley/Lakeland deception, BUT, for those who want to see for themselves,
go to the link Watchman provided and not only read the article he's refering to but check out the rest of it, there are several parts.
I don't see how any discerning christian can read this and not come to the conclusion that this is a major deception,
fueled and propagated by the likes of the men listed in these articles. Do a google search on some of these "prophets".
If you can't see this for yourselves, then do some research on it. Then again, if ya ain't seen it by NOW...
If it wasn't SO tragic for those falling for it, it would be laughable... BUT IT'S NOT FUNNY...GOD HELP US.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Hitting the big times [message #2359 is a reply to message #2357] |
Sat, 12 July 2008 17:23 |
james
Messages: 2138
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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According to ABC, Bentley is/or is about to, take a break to refresh himself???
Just a bit of info I've found to be interesting, in the last week I've asked several people(christian)
about their thoughts on the Lakeland revival...None had even heard of it,
also I read a recent post of Duncan's saying he didn't know who Bentley was.
Guess all of christendon isn't enamored with Mr. Todd Bentley.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Hitting the big times [message #2360 is a reply to message #2359] |
Sun, 13 July 2008 14:01 |
sparkles
Messages: 246
Registered: March 2008 |
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James, I think some of the problem is that there is hardly anyone in the pulpits teaching people about errors and deceptions. And some in leadership are following the false prophets and apostles, but since they are not making it public the path they've taken, the person in the seats does not know what exactly is going on. They know in their spirit things have changed, but don't know why. At my friends old church there was someone who did a seminar there, and the elders and leadership was told that if this man did the seminar it would split the church. Well, some of the people had been following this man's teaching and going to his seminars, so they brought him in anyways, and it was one of the things that has split the church. The leadership there is also following some of the false prophets and apostles and have given false words(prophecies) to people. One of the ladies there has promoted the false, mystical, Contemplative Prayer deception. Behind the scenes there has also has been brought in the deception of Theophostics and Inner Healing. Some in the church had brought the man who promotes Theophostics to do an invitation only seminar. Then they brought another man in to do a seminar on some wierd type of healing. Now they are heavily into the Dominionism false teaching and following the false Prophetic and Apostolic movement. There's more, but this will give you an example of the deceptions and progression of what happened.
I am saying all this to show how much of what is going on behind the scenes in churches is not known to the common person. When I asked various friends who have left this church if they knew about Cindy Jacobs, Dutch Sheets, Peter Wagner, Bob Jones(not of the college), Chuck Pierce and various others, they said they have never heard of them. But if you know of these people's ministries you see their footprints all over the church. Most of my friends have left this church as well as hundreds of others.
I appreciate the people on this site who have brought to light some of the people to be aware of. It seems like there is hardly anyone out there warning people of the false, deceptive teachings that are very prevalent today. In this time of famine of hearing the word of the Lord, it is a blessing to have the Holy Spirit and Word of God to guide and warn us of the subtilties and wiles of our adversary, the devil.
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| Re: Hitting the big times [message #2362 is a reply to message #2360] |
Mon, 14 July 2008 15:42 |
james
Messages: 2138
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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Sue, I agree with you on the need for more God appointed and anointed teachers who are not afraid to teach the truth.
'My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge...' Hosea 4:6
Discernment is SOOO needed in these days we live in.
Thank God for The Holy Spirit to lead and guide us into all truth.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Hitting the big times [message #2370 is a reply to message #2360] |
Mon, 14 July 2008 20:42 |
james
Messages: 2138
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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Actually, I got side tracked on the related story of the ex traffic cop who says he's Jesus. Then there was another related story of the self proclaimed saviors over the last several decades. It's so easy to see how the antichrist will be accepted by millions of people, look at how many are following these false saviors. And we know the antichrist will be much more convincing than these false prophets.
This life is certainly not a game, although many live it like it is. Just look at what's happening daily in the financial world, the spiritual realm,and in the weather calamities around the world...JESUS must be returning soon...LOOK UP.
Hombre, you brought up, if we recieved all that teaching and preparation in The Word to just save ourselves or share with others? Surely it's to be shared with others, YET, it won't do us much good if we don't use it to save ourselves. I Corth.9:27
I hope He finds faith when He returns...I know He will...I believe the question to be asked is, 'will He find FAITH in ME?' SOBERING QUESTION...
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2655 is a reply to message #1939] |
Wed, 06 August 2008 16:30 |
watchman
Messages: 16
Registered: April 2008
Location: North Carolina |
Junior Member |
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Hi there:
I am sorry that I have not had a chance to reply to you all before. I am glad to know that there is an actual discussion about this subject and not just a condemnation of Todd because he doesn't fit the HEF box. I am convinced that HEF's attack against other "full gospel" as well as fruitful ministries of every stripe has cost him his life and the lives of many others. When I visited the Faith Assembly the last time and felt the judgemental spirit that had blanketed the entire body I was sure it would not have a good end. I would think that many of you have done some real soul searching about condemnation of other ministies, and I see that many of you have. God is speaking to his people and I want to have a front row seat in his endtime moves.
God's Guidance through Dreams
I help run a homegroup body in North Carolina and God has come in power and has effected lives like no other time I have seen. God has given me dreams and visions that have amazingly come true. None have been wrong. I had one that showed a person in a large pickup that was in a satanic church and within 2 weeks I walked up to a man in Canada in a large pickup who had started talking to me and told him that he had satanic influences. He told me he had been into satanism, but had joined the apostolic church now. The dream said that he was a lier (spelling sorry). I am sure that you would be alarmed if I told you all of the dream and my conversation with him. I am sure he was all spirit...and not in a good way.
God's Guidance
In the past God has led me to a house that was not for sale and told me that I was to have that house. I saw the house in the paper at a sheriff sale and bought it for 67.000 in one year under the cohersion of the owner I sold it for 150,000 to him making substantial profit. I am sure God has many more "deals" for me in the future but that is not the first windfall I have received from listening to God.
My concern is that these signs and wonders that I have just related would be looked upon with real criticism from some of you and I am saying that you are missing the best from God.
I heard many in Faith Assembly and formerly in The Glory Barn speak "prophesy," and they always say "thus sayeth the Lord." I don't say that and tremble at the words. I have never heard any of these "words" actually come true. They say they speak prophesy and people die day after day in there body, and I had not heard one word of meaningful explanation about the deaths. They say they prophesy words straight from God but people fell away because there was no word of explanation only obvious evidence that HEF's ministry was not being confirmed by Gods support. I have talked to many in the body and believe this to be true. Am I saying that I believe that Todd is completely legit. No, but I am saying that the guidelines that some on this website use to judge him and others is flawed, and continued blasting of authentic moves of God will continue to be judgment against many of you.
If you all will Google Christian International and CI you will see that although Bill Hammon denounces Todd B's mentor, Patricia King, he supports Todd B and has sent three men over to his ministry to observe it. They came back excited of the power of God.
On the other Hand
I will also say that 14 years ago I had a dream about a demonic woman who would come into the Juvenile residential campus that I was working at and release demons on campus. In a few days I met her in a meeting with others on campus and led a move to pray against the attack on our campus. And attack it was, with two staff members stabbed and many many youth fighting and a attacking staff throwing furniture out windows and much more. Staff members came down with unexplained deadly diseases and staffs daughter fell and cracked her skull. Staff left there husbands and ran off with juvenile children from the residence. I don't have the time to mention it all. This woman was fresh from the Toronto Blessing Revival and there were many signs and wonders that followed the dream and all that happened on campus.
HEF spoke about William Branham and said that he was probably a great prophet that was to launch many moves of God in the last days. Although he also said the Branham fell away and was never much good in preaching and doctrine, he had great signs and wonders following his ministry. During most of his ministry Branham had Mr. Bosworth preach for him. I believe Bosworth (or his son) wrote "Christ the Healer." Branham's signs and wonders are on the internet for those who would like to Google them. I am sure that many of you would question these signs as from God, but they are similar to Todd B's signs and wonders. And I have had dreams of ditches with water in them in my ministry and believe much of Todd's signs and wonders are legitimate. There is some amazing wonders in the Bible that many people would look upon with scrutiny and would condemn the people involved if it happened today. Remember this is the times of signs and wonders of dreams and visions as stated in the Bible and I hope you all wont set on the sidelines and miss it all.
I don't have all of the answers but I do know that there are somethings that are revealed in time and you need to use careful discernment in determining these things. I have reservations with Todd but much like my conversation with the "man in the large truck," I will not be afraid of him or his ministry. I plan on going to see him at Morningstar ministries this Friday. I will try to comment about that service on this forum if I have time.
Remember that HEF is dead and died early. Oral Roberts, that man that he attacked is still alive. So is Billy Graham, Copeland, Hickey, and most everyone else he attacked. I will be careful not to touch "in criticism," Gods anointed without a CLEAR word from God.
And in keeping with that pledge, God bless you all
David (yes I know my silly signature ends up below my name.)
Watchman
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2684 is a reply to message #2655] |
Fri, 08 August 2008 16:52 |
jisamazed
Messages: 170
Registered: January 2008
Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
Senior Member |
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Watchman, thank you for that post. I hear people from both sides of the Todd Bentley debate. Some strong opinions both of them. All the more reason for making sure we get our facts right before making public statements about him. I would say that there are some differences in this case as well as similarities between the Lakeland Healings and those of previous healing revivals. I appreciate those who can stand for the truth and not compromise and yet interact with the true brothers and sisters with whom they disagree.
If the Lakeland Revival is a genuine move of the Holy Spirit, then Todd is simply one player in it, and dispensible regarding the power of God. Moves of the Spirit that make such a big impact are always bigger than one person or even one church.
Amazed smitten astonished stunned floored blown away astounded shocked flabbergasted surprised wonderfully devastated awed shattered overwhelmed incredulous speechless sense of wonder at the love of God.
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2685 is a reply to message #2684] |
Fri, 08 August 2008 17:49 |
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william
Messages: 1462
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
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| jisamazed wrote on Fri, 08 August 2008 11:52 |
If the Lakeland Revival is a genuine move of the Holy Spirit, then Todd is simply one player in it, and dispensible regarding the power of God. Moves of the Spirit that make such a big impact are always bigger than one person or even one church.
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And if the Lakeland Revival is *NOT* a genuine move of the Holy Spirit, then Todd Bentley and the rest of those "apostles" and "prophets" that have endorsed both the man, the manifestations, and the movement as a whole, are actively involved in promoting a lie of such a magnitude that one can only wonder if this is the beginning of the awesome deceptions prophesied by Jesus.
The so called leaders of Christianity (at least the charismatic part) haven't remained on the fence concerning this guy. The bright and shining stars have jumped on board...
Why do you still tarry, Jae?
(What about you watchman? Some of those you mentioned, you know, the still alive "leaders", they have endorsed the guy; why do you halt between two opinions???)
William
I want to believe!
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2742 is a reply to message #2685] |
Wed, 13 August 2008 02:28 |
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william
Messages: 1462
Registered: January 2006 |
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Hey guys,(and gals) I know you all are tired of the Todd Bentley affair (no pun intended, as he has just separated from his wife), but there have been a few new developments that warrant comment.
First, if you haven't already seen the youtube videos that document the "commissioning" of Bentley by the head bods of the charismatic movement you need to give it a cursory glance at least... there are 4 parts; here is the first:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVdY9ufJmz8
Take particular note of the "chief commissioning apostle" (from now on known only as "chief running-for-cover"... explanation to follow!) who makes sitting on the fence seem noble, or at least to be preferred over jumping into the fire bound head & foot in a straight-jacket. (My hat is off to you Jae!)
Who was it that mentioned Joyner??? He was there too; let the record show.
Okay, if you've watched the video (at least the first one) you'll want to hear from old Pete himself, as he tries to make John Kerry look like he is wearing winged-tipped dress shoes (instead of the flip-flops he normally wears).
Here is how the apostle Pete (chief running-for-cover) attempts to get in his denials before the cock crows:
http://www.ministrytodaymag.com/blog/2008/08/it-didnt-take-l ong-after-lakeland.html
I loved joe lunchbucket's comments which follow the swill. He said: "... but these "Christian pros" have just given him the holy handshake. I am a bit confused on that. I am just joe lunchbucket off the street but I believe I know enough to not lay hands on just anybody and give them a blessing. What are some other thoughts? Am I missing something here?"
Sign me off as just another--
Joe Lunchbucket
[Updated on: Wed, 13 August 2008 02:35]
I want to believe!
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2743 is a reply to message #2742] |
Wed, 13 August 2008 02:49 |
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william
Messages: 1462
Registered: January 2006 |
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By the way, after watching the gathering of such an astute group in the "commissioning" video, I couldn't help but wonder: where is Jehu when you really need him?
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2Ki 10:18 And Jehu gathered all the people together, and said unto them, Ahab served Baal a little; but Jehu shall serve him much.
2Ki 10:19 Now therefore call unto me all the prophets of Baal, all his servants, and all his priests; let none be wanting: for I have a great sacrifice to do to Baal; whosoever shall be wanting, he shall not live. But Jehu did it in subtilty, to the intent that he might destroy the worshippers of Baal.
2Ki 10:20 And Jehu said, Proclaim a solemn assembly for Baal. And they proclaimed it.
2Ki 10:21 And Jehu sent through all Israel: and all the worshippers of Baal came, so that there was not a man left that came not. And they came into the house of Baal; and the house of Baal was full from one end to another.
2Ki 10:22 And he said unto him that was over the vestry, Bring forth vestments for all the worshippers of Baal. And he brought them forth vestments.
2Ki 10:23 And Jehu went, and Jehonadab the son of Rechab, into the house of Baal, and said unto the worshippers of Baal, Search, and look that there be here with you none of the servants of the LORD, but the worshippers of Baal only.
2Ki 10:24 And when they went in to offer sacrifices and burnt offerings, Jehu appointed fourscore men without, and said, If any of the men whom I have brought into your hands escape, he that letteth him go, his life shall be for the life of him.
2Ki 10:25 And it came to pass, as soon as he had made an end of offering the burnt offering, that Jehu said to the guard and to the captains, Go in, and slay them; let none come forth. And they smote them with the edge of the sword; and the guard and the captains cast them out, and went to the city of the house of Baal.
2Ki 10:26 And they brought forth the images out of the house of Baal, and burned them.
2Ki 10:27 And they brake down the image of Baal, and brake down the house of Baal, and made it a draught house unto this day.
2Ki 10:28 Thus Jehu destroyed Baal out of Israel.
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But I guess that is too old testamenty for some.
[Updated on: Wed, 13 August 2008 02:53]
I want to believe!
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2744 is a reply to message #2743] |
Wed, 13 August 2008 03:03 |
james
Messages: 2138
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Wow, speechless...That woman on the 3rd part with the head shaking? Demonic activity...not oppression...POSSESSION.
Will it never end???
I guess with all the talk about a new thing, Todd decided to trade in his wife on a 'new thing'.
Of course, this will just make him fit in with the others prophets and apostles he hangs with.
Also what with the tats, piercings, he'll have a new badge of pride to wear in identifying with the common sinners.
No William, I don't think you've missed anything, it is what it is...Welcome to the twilight zone 
[Updated on: Wed, 13 August 2008 03:19]
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2750 is a reply to message #2749] |
Wed, 13 August 2008 12:18 |
james
Messages: 2138
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Grandom,
I don't think that an apostle must 'see' Jesus, but he certainly must be anointed by The Holy Spirit for that office.(and I don't mean office as man appointed office, I mean the office as set in the body by God, ordained of Him, as the 5-fold ministry set in the body of Christ to bring the saints unto maturity...apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastors, and teachers.)
Does anyone, having watched these 4-part tapes of Bentley's being 'lined up under an apostle' show, not see that something has gone terribly wrong in Lakeland, Fl. Look at the 3 rd. part and watch Stacy Campbell(prophetess), she's shaking her head and making sounds that come across as ???? and the whole time Bentley's laying there on the floor shaking his head nonstop. Is this supposed to be the anointing and power of The Holy Spirit upon them causing this shaking?
I feel for those who are buying it and I'm disgusted that people watching on godtv, who aren't christian, come to believe that this is how God works and this is christianity.
"Thy kingdom come. And Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."
COME QUICKLY, LORD JESUS
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2754 is a reply to message #2749] |
Wed, 13 August 2008 16:15 |
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william
Messages: 1462
Registered: January 2006 |
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You may call him whatever you want William, but I prefer Colonel Sanders, as both recognize the potential for making money that their product has.
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Actually that isn't a bad moniker... especially considering his chicken-hearted response *AFTER* strutting around like a rooster at the event!
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let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.
~ Joel 2: 1-16
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I had never noticed that verse before, very interesting!
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...and was that Kenny Rogers in the background too?
...perhaps he was there to pound out a new set of verses to 'Lucille' that will fit for Shonnah.
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Maybe he Just Dropped In... To See What Condition His Condition Wuz In. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhOKhJaM1QE
Hey, when looking up the Kenny Roger's link I found me a revival to go to... ya'll want to come? It's a Creedence Clearwater Revival!
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The bride is in her closet.
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You probably don't want to go out tonight...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeZm7KQJT1o&feature=relat ed
The graphics are soooo Todd!
[Updated on: Sun, 31 August 2008 00:54]
I want to believe!
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2758 is a reply to message #2754] |
Wed, 13 August 2008 21:40 |
james
Messages: 2138
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Another example of excellence by the medical community, Kenny's facelift was blotched almost as badly as Jerry Jones.
Shows even if you do have millions to spend, you can't buy assurance from the medical gods.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2764 is a reply to message #2763] |
Thu, 14 August 2008 21:32 |
james
Messages: 2138
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Remember Lee Grady, the editor of Charisma magazine? He first embraced Todd Bentley and the Lakeland revival, then later started writting from a more conservative opinion. Yet, with the tool he had at his disposal, Charisma Magazine, he sat in a netural corner. And instead of warning the sheep of these false apostles, prophets, and charlatans, he chose to not offend anyone by being 'critical or judgemental', and pretty much did little to prevent this debacle from occuring. Now he's asking all these questions, and saying where were the leaders of 'the movement'(charismatic) during all this and why did they allow this to happen, ect. ect....
Here's his latest attempt at passing the buck, yet maybe the questions he raises will cause people the stop and examine their motives and why they were so easily deceived by the wiles of the devil. http://enjoyingthejourney.blogspot.com/2008/08/charismas-edi tor-lee-grady-talks-about.html
[Updated on: Thu, 14 August 2008 22:10]
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2778 is a reply to message #2130] |
Fri, 15 August 2008 17:24 |
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william
Messages: 1462
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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This is something that Jae wrote on the 3rd page of this rather lengthy thread:
| jisamazed wrote on Thu, 19 June 2008 11:35 |
Hey, everyone. Todd Bentley just wrote an open letter in order to address some of the criticisms toward him and bring some clarification on some matters. Take a look at it and read it carefully and prayerfully and tell me what you think.
http://www.freshfire.ca/?Id=1059&pid=993
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Hi Jae,
In the interest of not leaving any loose ends hanging around, I believe that it would be helpful to provide a bit of "balance" to the, supposedly scholarly, 55 page pdf article that Todd Bentley used (in the link above toward the end of the letter by Gary S Greig) to defend some of his practices... it is provided by another academic (who, btw, sounds a bit like Hombre... i.e. you need a dictionary handy to read it!):
The response can be found here:
http://www.moriel.org/articles/discernment/church_issues/rev iew_of_gary_greigs_apologetic.htm
I don't like to use links to answer questions that we should be able to answer ourselves, but in this case I'll make an exception since the pdf was only indirectly referenced by you and as far as I know, hasn't been directly mentioned on this forum.
In the interest of full disclosure, I will say that I didn't think the pdf was all that bad in some of the particulars, only that it definitely didn't provide a good defense for his stated purpose; i.e. defending Todd Bentley, and the other spurious "movements" that spawned his ministry. It did make some decent points against cessationist theology.
William
[Updated on: Fri, 15 August 2008 17:28]
I want to believe!
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| Re: Lakeland Revival??? [message #2784 is a reply to message #2778] |
Fri, 15 August 2008 20:09 |
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william
Messages: 1462
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
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| Hombre wrote on Fri, 15 August 2008 13:28 |
....may I quote a little piece from the text of this article?
| James Jacob Prasch |
...Gary S. Greig is nothing more than more of the same. He is the next crony for the spirit of error that has resided in the character of his would-be academic predecessors. Their efforts have become nothing more than a sorry saga of serial stupidity in a debunked charade masquerading as charismatic/Pentecostal Christianity.
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May I first say that I am appalled by the juvenile name calling and Un-Christian attitude of this person: if this sort of thing continues here, I am going to go home and cry in my mommys' bosom.
Hey there now...nice goin' Jacob...I like your adjective strewing style!
...and BTW, William, you are getting to be a mean man!
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When I read the article I thought it was you writing under a pseudonym (instead of Hombre)... I'm still not convinced that it wasn't you!
In another note you said:
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Yes, we even have one here who has that handle too, but he is apparently doing more watching at this point than anything else.
...BTW...that's just an observation, not pressure on him to do anything.
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Now who is being mean? Don't you remember that even he (watchman) said his siggy was silly.
He signed off: | Quote: |
David (yes I know my silly signature ends up below my name.)
Watchman
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Blessings,
William
[Updated on: Fri, 15 August 2008 20:11]
I want to believe!
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| Apostles [message #2786 is a reply to message #2778] |
Sat, 16 August 2008 00:30 |
Mark L
Messages: 853
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
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As far as the apostle is concerned. The teaching was (and I agree with it) that a person is set in the prophetic/apostlic office by the personal appearance and commisoning of the Lord Jesus. There are good biblical reasons for believing that. When I have time I will post some info.
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| Re: Apostles [message #2795 is a reply to message #2786] |
Sat, 16 August 2008 15:30 |
james
Messages: 2138
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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I too, would like to see this info, Mark. Not that I don't believe you, I just don't remember being taught,
or where in The Word it says, that an Apostle 'had' to have seen Jesus...
If I'm wrong then I want to correct my stand on this.(I have been wrong before)
I DO believe an Apostle must be called and anointed by God, just like true prophets, evangelist, pastors, and teachers.
Richard refered to 'watchmen' the other day, I do believe part of our purpose and calling, in these times we live in,
is to be 'watchmen' and point out deceptions and dangers that threaten the body of Christ.
We need 'someone on that wall', crying out warnings and shining light on darkness...
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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