Home » Discussion Area » Introductions & General » Faith Assembly, then and now... an update
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1683 is a reply to message #1676] |
Fri, 25 April 2008 15:05 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
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william Messages: 1456 Registered: January 2006 |
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Quote: | Hombre: That's the ticket, mates.....
Inspiration, not: d r u d g e r y.
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Good point... actually your whole note is inspirational.
Do we really believe that the NT church sat down and decided to change the dress codes for the newly founded church? They dressed like everyone else dressed. It wasn't until the Council of Pants that men gave up their kilts for more modest clothing.
The NT Church didn't need to prove that they were different by wearing special garb, the difference was obvious by the power!
As I see it, Paul's insistence on the headcovering for the Corinthians leads me to believe that conformity to the Greek society was the goal, not uniqueness. In other words, the gospel of Christ was so important, he refused to let side issues like women's headcoverings and speaking in church, hinder its propagation, even if it meant that the women would need to limit their freedom for the greater good. It cannot be denied that Greek women as a society wore the headcovering. They also had a greatly inferior position in all of the functions of that society.
Apparently, the ones who flaunted those societal norms were the hetaera... they refused to submit to the cultural norms. Naturally Paul did not want Christian women associated with these known prostitutes, hence his regulations.
So, if this is the case, one might ask: "What is wrong with a church seeking to limit its women from dressing and acting (and performing/ministering) like the worldly women of today?" Nothing.
As long as the society/culture as a whole associates women who dress a certain way and act a certain way, with prostitutes, then the overriding concern should be that the Gospel be not hindered. If dressing a certain way and acting a certain way (ministry) hinders the Gospel, then conformity to the norms should be paramount.
Fortunately this isn't the case (with a few notable exceptions) in our American society. In other societies, an Islamic society for instance, the headcovering for a woman seeking to spread Christianity would be of the utmost importance. Also it would be extremely imprudent for a woman in such a situation to attempt to minister to the men of that culture... it would be counterproductive to say the least!
It could be argued that in a society like ours, one that associates wearing a cross necklace with Christianity, it might be an advantage to wear a cross necklace when witnessing, but I'm not going to make that argument! <grin>
I'm sure not all will agree with me on this.
In modern times we need our externals (garb, etc.) to distinguish ourselves as Christians, and until we get to the place where the distinguishing factor for the Christian models that of the NT (healing the sick, casting out demons, etc.) we will need to continue to use the beggarly elements of religious garb and talk, to make the point that we are different. <sigh>
Blessings,
William
[Updated on: Sun, 27 April 2008 02:13] I want to believe!
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1698 is a reply to message #1676] |
Sun, 27 April 2008 03:43 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
capturedbygrace Messages: 41 Registered: April 2008 Location: Indianapolis, IN |
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Boy, are your discussions interesting! By the way, hi, Michael--just saw your post re my intro. I'm looking the site over and trying to decide how to come at things...I do have a story and a half--my life wasn't quiet in FA, and it hasn't been quiet outside. I can honestly say if I didn't learn what I did at FA, I'd not have made it till now. I'm not ready to tell that yet, but I've got to start somewhere, so I'm going to take a deep breath and wade in, ok, dive in... . (Maybe tomorrow I'll post what I told someone else recently that I learned at FA...). But back to the subject at hand, Hombre said:
...then there's the matter of attending a 'church' where the people believe that the way that they have established is 110% right, and regardless of whether the official position is 'freedom', tell me how long a woman is going to last in there without a doily, or wearing feminine 'trousers'....and how long exactly until one realizes that they really aren't a part of 'it' until they become like one of 'them'?
This point really concerns me. It seems to me too many specifics regarding dress (and other areas in FA and elsewhere) can open doors toward (though I really believe that's absolutely not intended) legalism and hot on its heels, a battle with spiritual pride. I think that tendency is not Faith Assembly per se, but a temptation to everyone, and I wonder how the balance of their personal conviction re dress God wants for everyone and freedom for others to grow in that conviction (or not) can be maintained with respect from and for those on both sides of the issue. The deeper issue that flows from this one, however, is that whichever side of that (or another) fence I'm on, I think it's a very real temptation for me as a human being to discount "the other side's" views on everything, and thus not allow "iron to sharpen iron" by letting other living stones rub off on me. I have a ready-made excuse--they don't have light here (I think) so I don't have to listen there...besides, I can't listen and deeply consider what is being said because I might get deceived... . I pray that God call me on these things any time I'm thinking that way.
That's peer pressure in a nutshell.
It is, brother, and I believe it tries to estrange us from our brothers and sisters. Something to consider here: Who is building the church? - My Bible says Jesus builds His church (Mt 16:16-18). Also, who convicts the world (and the church) of sin, righteousness, and judgment - and all other issues? My Bible says that is the work of the Holy Spirit (Jn 16:8,12-14). One day the Lord convicted me that I was taking His place. He asked me what my relationship to other Christians was, and I answered, "sister." He said, "That's right. You're not Me, and you're not the Holy Spirit, and unless I make it absolutely clear that you need to speak up on any particular issue, if you step in, you are usurping My role. You are not Father, and if you try to speak without being called on and without My wisdom (which will help people not polarize according to the fruits ascribed to it in James 3:17-18), you are hindering rather than helping My work."
IMO.....as long as people continue to legislate or 'infer' by way of declaration ( whatever Rolling Eyes ) what 'the right way is' with reference to anything other than moral issues, there will be 'peer pressure' and little ingrown societies that develop.
Yes. Does this not also tend to take away freedom to think and hear the Lord for oneself? If I know what answer (and proof text) I'd best come up with to be considered credible and spiritual, I'm not likely to rock the boat. (On the other hand, if I tended to like rocking boats, I might use the occasion for a good fight!) I don't see how either of those attitudes is more godly than the other--both are rooted in flesh and preferences, and have nothing to do with God or the fruit of the Spirit.
My mentality used to be, "Don't sweat the small stuff." But is it "small stuff" if I really don't think one of these things is something God is asking of me (though the principle always remains intact)? Am I not being dishonest to "just go along, just submit?" Further, could it ever be sin against the Lord and His body to follow something that is not a conviction of mine? I would say it depends on what the Lord is doing. I could be being picky, or depending on what the Lord was aiming for, I could be robbing the whole body of a chance to seek God, deny flesh and in the process stretch, grow and receive a new revelation of Him. IMO, not all conflict is bad if our aim is to let it draw us closer to the Lord's mind and heart... .
..before I end this... , I would like to add also that the idea of separation from the world can become a powerful medium of abuse in estranging people from reality. For example, I'm not stupid, I can read a newspaper or watch TV and recognize editorial content, and even learn from it. I don't need a leader to do that for me...or to tell me that it's wrong....
While our family was at Faith Assembly for six years (1979-1985), we had a "media blackout." Those were some of the best years of my life in some ways. During that time I learned to love silence (in this world it is an acquired taste!), learned to listen for God, learned to hear His voice. It was certainly time well spent. Our boys learned that there were plenty of things to do without "electronics," and they were saved from the worldly lusts "ministered" through ads and fashions slanted to appeal to them. Their lives were uncluttered. Their lives bear some of the fruits of that time in the values they carry today as adults.
However, since we left Faith Assembly over the years we added some media gradually, very carefully back in; the image I had when we left was that we were like deep sea divers--if we came up from the depths too quickly, we would get the bends, ie "culture-shock;" if "the world" was allowed to rush in too fast, we could lose all the advantages that experience had gained for us.
In retrospect, I do think there have been a few trade offs that I'm not always happy with--a little less separation from the world than I'd like, and there have been temptations to overuse the media. I am not always convinced I like the results of that, but I also know for my life I need to hear and know and pray about some events and trends. But it took me a very long time to catch up on things. For quite some time I felt as though I'd been caught in a time-warp. Concerning our guys, I honestly believe I would have hindered God's purpose for them had I not been obedient and taken the time to carefully under controlled conditions spent hours of time teaching them about the world and discussing what we saw, diligently comparing it with the Bible. If I'd just exposed them to the media with no guidance, I think I would have been throwing them to the wolves with a "sink or swim" attitude, and if I'd not exposed them carefully, they wouldn't have been prepared to deal with what they encountered as we came out of our "cocoon."
Well, I think I've said plenty...
[Updated on: Sun, 27 April 2008 17:42] Broken vessel in training: Pressing on to experience the fullness of Acts 17:28: For in Him we live, and move, and have our being...
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1763 is a reply to message #1676] |
Fri, 02 May 2008 21:18 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
capturedbygrace Messages: 41 Registered: April 2008 Location: Indianapolis, IN |
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Hi all. I'm off today so I'm meandering more (my guys are tempted to think I'm "off" all the time but that's another subject). --BTW is there any way to start a post here and save it as a draft??? It might have saved me some late nights...but then again I want to write while the inspiration is flowing... .
I would like to bring up Faith Assembly again. Let me say right now, I am absolutely 100% not wanting to "bash Faith Assembly!" How could I want to when I received so much there? I also fully believe that today they are trying awfully hard to hold to what they perceive God wants them to hold to, while at the same time trying to bring a balance to some past issues - not doctrinal issues, but application issues. I will be the first to say that's like trying to walk a tightrope - one false move in any direction and it's a long tumble!
Personally, as I pray over the FA body, I really believe God has commissioned them to plant themselves and not budge on these truths that were of Him, including many aspects of the extreme separation from the world. In my own life, though I believe God led me out of that extreme separation, I honestly know what I got from it--and to be totally honest, I wouldn't put it past God to call at least some of us to total separation from media again if the battle gets hot and heavy enough. I also believe if Faith Assembly can't hold their ground, that something very valuable will be lost to the body of Christ.
Someone might ask, "What does it matter if they stand or fall now; we got what we needed, and besides, they aren't a big enough group at this point to make much of a difference?" I would reply, "Since when does God need big numbers...Joshua against Jericho (they didn't even fight!), David (and God!) against Goliath, Gideon's Army...we all know God delights in doing the unlikely thing to confound His enemies." I believe one reason He would have them stand as a body is to stand for the truths of the Word entrusted to them. You might say, "Yes, but there are the tapes. Let people learn from them. Also, we know those truths and walk in them. Aren't we standing?" Yes, but as far as I can tell, we are standing as individuals. Small in number though they be, they are standing as a body. They exist to "demonstrate the tapes/truths in action. When I personally stand, I am using and encouraging those truths, but that is part of my message. They seem near as I can tell to be custodians of the message, and I wonder if their job isn't to bring those truths to other parts of the body of Christ that are part of the remnant and don't know it yet. The difference between my using what I learned at FA and their proclaiming and using it is the difference between my using my tools (hammer, saw, etc) and their demonstrating, explaining and sharing the tools and their use as their main focus and equipping the rest God calls to learn what we did.
Brothers and sisters, if what I am saying has even a grain of truth, is it any wonder that all hell (I mean that literally) has tried to obliterate them by using any and all weapons at its disposal? The enemy knows what it will mean to his camp to have people in bodies who are trained, healed, holy. and as a result powerful move against him.
Let me speak of a couple of the weapons I think he's used with great success to this point--first let's talk about us. I think the enemy has worked awfully hard to keep us from appreciating them (as custodian of the message) and the role that God used them to play in our lives to the point where we would be willing to go to war for them. Yes, we appreciate, but how much? One might say to me, "But it doesn't seem as if they appreciate us !" That may be, but whoever sees it first is the one Scripture would say should respond. - I have things to say regarding them, but not until I deal with my own logs.
Why would we not battle for them? NOTE: I am not saying "correct them, show them where they are wrong. No, because they must know our love and respect and know the sincerity of our prayers before they can hear anything else. Then if they have 'specks' in their eyes, God might convict them... . One possible reason we haven't (including me) been ready to battle for them is that we haven't totally done our homework. Some of us don't see we have any homework to do, and some don't know how to do it so that we are set free to walk in what we've been taught (including the fruit of love towards them, etc) and that disqualifies us so we can't go back and help/war for them. - Children are supposed to honor our parents--isn't this one way to honor our "parent body?"
I think some of us (I do not know who--and it is not my place to try to decide who is in this category) "out here" have jettisoned some things in our past. That in itself isn't wrong if we are still grateful and if we do it out of conviction that this is how God is dealing with us in this time. However, some of us have jettisoned things less out of conviction and more out of a sense of failure or hurt, perhaps because we think there is no way to live the Word of God without condemnation if we feel like we can't cut it, or if we've had bad experiences, we'll do anything (including not wrestle with the Word) so that we don't become like "those people" who have hurt us. Then again, if we have anger, we could jettison some things out of rebellion...I think there are as many possible reactions to our past as there are people. I further think in our re-thinking, re-praying over things (and how can we not do that if we've come from FA?) very few of us could have had perfectly balanced reactions all the time, even if we've tried to "hold fast."
I am not trying to put condemnation anywhere--I am just looking at possible attitudes/fears that could prevent us from coming to the aid of Faith Assembly. Also, if I don't see my, logs, when I see their 'specks' I might say, "If they're so smart they don't need [or deserve] my help." If I am going to look at FA, I need to have a clear heart myself or I won't be able to see past what God says is the log in my own eye to with a clear conscience, a right heart and motives and a gentle spirit pray and war for and (if God ever gave opportunity minister to) them rightly.
Now very briefly to Faith Assembly. Do they think they need others to war for and with them? Doesn't sound like it from their blog. But why should that stop us? I didn't think I needed any help when people were praying like crazy for my salvation! Do they have anything they are holding to that isn't God, or at least isn't God for everybody, even if it is God for those in their body? Yes, I think so, but they won't be convinced by reasoning or debate. They, like me, will only be convinced by God's work in their heart. Do they have a battle with blindness or pride?--No more than I do! So, I believe God asks you, brothers and sisters who are just about healed enough--do you find it in your hearts to go to war for them instead of just seeing what you pick up on their blog? - And brothers and sisters who haven't yet come to healing enough, God isn't asking this of you. What He's asking you is if you knew how to do the things needed step by step to get your healing (and it is different for each person because God is a very individual God) - would you be willing to do it? See, each of us is being asked something--with no condemnation--just a chance to grow to the next step. What are we going to say?
One of our first tests-what Joe said in the blog Thursday, May 1, 2008. Is it at all troubling? Is it something to shake my head over or to start praying that God reveal any imbalances to them and any truths to me? Lord, I pray You take any criticism and judgment out of my heart. Where it has not even occurred to me to pray, please forgive my sin against You and against them. Teach me your heart and what You want my attitude to be toward my "parent church." I would like you to work in me such that I desire as much to see them established as I do myself. Please, Lord, help us all come into what You desire, and thank You so very much for Your longsuffering. I know to whom much is given much is required, and that does not just apply in the area of gifts, but fruit. To be those You've called us to be, we need to have Your vision and heart. In regards to Faith Assembly, please give us both Your vision and heart, and Your grace to obey. I ask this in the wonderful name of my Lord Jesus Christ. Thank You!
[Updated on: Fri, 02 May 2008 21:20] Broken vessel in training: Pressing on to experience the fullness of Acts 17:28: For in Him we live, and move, and have our being...
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1765 is a reply to message #1763] |
Sat, 03 May 2008 00:15 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
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william Messages: 1456 Registered: January 2006 |
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captured:Quote: | I would like to bring up Faith Assembly again. Let me say right now, I am absolutely 100% not wanting to "bash Faith Assembly!" How could I want to when I received so much there? I also fully believe that today they are trying awfully hard to hold to what they perceive God wants them to hold to, while at the same time trying to bring a balance to some past issues - not doctrinal issues, but application issues. I will be the first to say that's like trying to walk a tightrope - one false move in any direction and it's a long tumble!
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I guess I see it a little different than you, but I think I see your point. I'm all for praying for the current FA (something I confess I haven't done much of) but I'm not willing to just sweep things under the rug either and ignore some of the areas where I believe we were dead wrong. We've explored a lot of those areas over the last few years and while I'm not sure we are all at the same place (and maybe you are right in your assessment that it is because we all are standing pretty much as individuals and not as a unified body) I do think we've moved on in our walk with God.
Some may see it more as a regression, but that's okay too!
Quote: | They seem near as I can tell to be custodians of the message, and I wonder if their job isn't to bring those truths to other parts of the body of Christ that are part of the remnant and don't know it yet. The difference between my using what I learned at FA and their proclaiming and using it is the difference between my using my tools (hammer, saw, etc) and their demonstrating, explaining and sharing the tools and their use as their main focus and equipping the rest God calls to learn what we did.
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Custodians of "the message” or custodians of the message of the Bible? We are all called to walk in the truths presented in the Bible and in that sense we are all called to be custodians. I confess I know little about what goes on at FA now beyond what I've read in Joe's blog, so that should temper anything that I say, but it doesn't seem to me that they would have much of an interest in what former FA'ers have to say about much of anything.
When a group of people get to the point where they view themselves as the "keepers of the flame", problems arise. It happened then and it *seems* as if that is the attitude today.
Quote: | Let me speak of a couple of the weapons I think he's used with great success to this point--first let's talk about us. I think the enemy has worked awfully hard to keep us from appreciating them (as custodian of the message) and the role that God used them to play in our lives to the point where we would be willing to go to war for them. Yes, we appreciate, but how much? One might say to me, "But it doesn't seem as if they appreciate us !" That may be, but whoever sees it first is the one Scripture would say should respond. - I have things to say regarding them, but not until I deal with my own logs.
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Guilty as charged! But since I am, and since you say that they are the "custodians", shouldn't they see it first? Isn't it ironic that it should be those who have, from the current FA’s standpoint, left "the message", be the ones who take up the burden of standing in the gap? I do appreciate what you are saying, so please don't take that the wrong way. Your point is a good one, but it is rather ironic, don't you think?
Quote: | Why would we not battle for them? NOTE: I am not saying "correct them, show them where they are wrong. No, because they must know our love and respect and know the sincerity of our prayers before they can hear anything else. Then if they have 'specks' in their eyes, God might convict them... . One possible reason we haven't (including me) been ready to battle for them is that we haven't totally done our homework. Some of us don't see we have any homework to do, and some don't know how to do it so that we are set free to walk in what we've been taught (including the fruit of love towards them, etc) and that disqualifies us so we can't go back and help/war for them. - Children are supposed to honor our parents--isn't this one way to honor our "parent body?"
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Ouch! Now you are asking us to not do something that we were taught to do! We are nothing if not great correctors! We all have our master's degree in that field! Okay, so I need to do a little homework...<grin>
Quote: | So, I believe God asks you, brothers and sisters who are just about healed enough--do you find it in your hearts to go to war for them instead of just seeing what you pick up on their blog?
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Justification coming... I read the blog because I do find some affinity with the group... but no more than Malcolm's church, and no more than other groups (some I don't even know about) with whom we've shared a common experience.
Quote: | One of our first tests-what Joe said in the blog Thursday, May 1, 2008. Is it at all troubling?
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Actually, and this will probably surprise you, I'm probably more in agreement with him on that issue, but I've really not heard too much about what is going on down there, so I hesitate to say anything without first doing a little more research.
The "tiny remnant" statement had me rolling my eyes a bit though!
I hope you don't take this whole response as criticism and let it hinder you from continuing to post great soul-searching notes. You have a gift that I really appreciate... it isn't often that I read things that stir me deeply... your notes have!
Blessings,
William
I want to believe!
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1772 is a reply to message #1765] |
Sat, 03 May 2008 18:34 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
capturedbygrace Messages: 41 Registered: April 2008 Location: Indianapolis, IN |
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Hi, all! Thank you for replying, William--it gives me an opportunity both to "come to balance" and/or to say what I mean (hopefully) a little more clearly. I didn't mean to touch off any red flags, but I understand how this post easily could have.
Speaking of, I sincerely apologize to all ! I had some red flags about the May 1, 2008 FA blog which I see upon second prayerful reading provoked by your comments, William, didn't hold water! I had taken some things differently than the way I see they were meant. I too agree in the main with it. I also deeply apologize to Joe Brenneman and Faith Assembly if anyone from there by any chance reads this for not reading it at least twice before commenting. By God's grace I will not do that again! Thanks for the heads-up there, brother!
Now-I operate by trying to "describe what I see." When I do, it almost always needs to be refined, and I can't do that in a void, so I have to prayerfully "put it out there" so brothers and sisters can challenge me, and that is often where the refinement comes, both in words (saying more clearly) and in balance. One of my friends says she gets quiet to "process" things. I do also to an extent. But she says after my quiet, the second thing I do to process is verbalize. That is what I'm doing here...but on another point, me lopsided and needing balance? Never! Hah! - if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you...its in Brooklyn!! Anyway, onward. Note: I will not be able to comment on all you said in reply in one post, so I'll start here, and more to follow, . A request, brothers and sisters--please think of my last post as a starting place and please hear me out...online communication can be difficult in some ways and take time--in a face-to-face I could correct what I said right away--can't here. Thank you, and may God bless you for your patience with me. Also, I am going to try to reply to all of William's points before I go to any others (if there are any others) since his post was first.
You said: but I'm not willing to just sweep things under the rug either and ignore some of the areas where I believe we were dead wrong. We've explored a lot of those areas over the last few years and while I'm not sure we are all at the same place (and maybe you are right in your assessment that it is because we all are standing pretty much as individuals and not as a unified body.
Nor am I willing to sweep things under the rug, brother. I just know that without diligent prayer neither side has a prayer, literally, of learning anything from the other, (both sides keep running into their own walls of hurts, strongholds, etc and find it hard to hear (that's what affected my "hearing right" the FA blog entry I referred to above) and if we are just talking to each other without serious (not lip-service) prayer (or not talking at all), we are leaving out the One who can change us, the One who for some reason wants our cooperation in prayer (this is a principle-not targeted particularly at FA).
To finish the last part of your quote: I do think we've moved on in our walk with God.
I'm sure, to some extent we outside FA and those inside FA have moved on. None of us are "frozen in time," since none of us are dead! But I question as I did in the last post, what would God say is my responsibility to our "parent body," the one that He used to birth in my heart the Biblical message that has given me such life? Don't I need to first be thankful, then forgive and pray for their welfare? Don't I need to pray if they are off balance in any area that the Lord would bless them with His wisdom and guide them? To me, if I don't or can't do those things, I haven't completed the process described in the following statement: "Maturity requires the integration, not the amputation of what we have received through our conception and birth, our infancy and schooling." --Eugene Peterson Things have to come full circle, at least for me, or I haven't fully moved on... . Besides, regardless of how our "parents" regard us (yes, I admit to great irony, brother), are we to regard them that way? - I liken it to being divorced - it doesn't matter who started it, it doesn't matter even if there's repentance on the other side (it takes two). I'm still called to forgive and pray as God leads or I'm in disobedience (and brother, I'm putting my money where my mouth is here and seeing interesting results...).
You said: Custodians of "the message” or custodians of the message of the Bible? We are all called to walk in the truths presented in the Bible and in that sense we are all called to be custodians.
Let me try again. I mean I firmly believe there is the possibility God wants them (the current body attached to the Faith Assembly website) to be custodians as in proclaimers of the full throttle "trust God for everything" message running throughout the Bible. Anyway, by way of illustration of the distinctions between the function of a body and the function and limitations of individual Christians I'm trying to make here, let me ask you a question, William and everyone else who is healed and walking in the full message of the Bible with God's help and led to go to a local church: Do you admit your body doesn't have what we as a body had? I thought I've picked that up from your posts, William and a few others. If that's so, do you proclaim (as opposed to demonstrate and mainly-there are exceptions-proclaim when your walk inspires questions) the whole ball of wax constantly in relation to the Christians you know within that body? (Hombre and those like you, I address you about five paragraphs below! )
Maybe you do loudly proclaim on top of demonstration whether asked or not, and if so, that's great if God's leading you (but from what I've observed people like Hombre don't last long at bodies that aren't prepared by God for them!). On the contrary, however, from what I've seen of other "out here" healed FA brethren, that's not the usual pattern. Speaking of myself as an individual, I am to be a custodian also, but more in the sense of using the tool in a specific arena, rather than proclaiming it in all its ramifications as a body can do. They, like me, have not been too vocal; you can't be if you are sent to the "system" for very long. And let me say that this is not compromise! It is God using a different "tool;" not everything needs a slash and burn approach (but some things do!). - I've had to be content with the way God has worked through me till now: people come to me because they are hurt, and God gives me specific things through words of knowledge etc to dislodge their "logjams." Now regarding application I tell them to go to God with what I said in order to ask Him and listen to what He says about what I said, and then to do exactly what He says, not to just follow my advice.
My "counseling" is always, always to strengthen people's relationship with the Lord, not make people dependent on me. Their point of need has been a doorway into exploring rudimentary faith. I also point them towards total surrender, but I don't spend hours sharing it for reasons I explain below, and because that's not the emphasis God's given me at this point. My God-given emphasis is at this point to help them get free of the emotional things that would keep them from following God in an effectual, practical, abandoned to God faith walk.
-I haven't been able to go any farther than that, partly because there hasn't been enough of a climate of consistent teaching and demonstration by the pastor to provide a frame of reference for people to relate to. Up till very recently I couldn't do more because of what God had not dealt with in the body; my making it an issue (instead of just praying fervently) would have disturbed the work God was doing to get us ready for what He is doing now.
While God has built that frame of reference in us as individuals through FA and scattered us, up till now it hasn't been present for the most part in the bodies I've encountered, but let me say here, I believe He is tilling the ground in places out here, judging from my small group meeting last night so that message can be received by more bodies (not just individuals) even if He has to level them first by the proclamation of the message.
Important aside: No, Hombre, I'm not asking you! Seriously, I know other "slash and burn" Christians - my prayer partner is anointed for that. Because I have "a kinder gentler anointing," so to speak I almost want to put 'anointed' here in quotes, but honestly, I have learned as led by the Spirit it is a tremendous gift and people such as yourself are used as "sharp threshing instruments" and get results the rest of us aren't anointed to get in places angels fear to tread.
Faith Assembly, on the other hand, because it is a body charged with that message proclaims as well as demonstrates the whole ball of wax constantly. She as a body has truths of application which if others understood could save many a Christian many a heartache (and possible deception as stated in the May 1, 2008 blog) from wandering from one place to another to receive their healing, etc. What FA knows in this area (one of many) and could effectually proclaim more and more as the need for it is growing, could definitely if "caught" by other Christians be a stabilizing factor in the body of Christ, if you will, part of that "sharp threshing instrument" that will help prepare and keep the remnant on track in the days to come. In conclusion of this part, that is why I believe and really want (and even more believe that God really wants) to see a humble, seasoned by years of adversity and trial body proclaiming and demonstrating these truths...and I hope there are others with as much experience and testing and sifting and sorting as FA has to do so, but I honestly don't know them... .
Okay, I am now going to have to stop. (I reread this post Sunday and aside from moving a sentence or two, and rounding out the last paragraph above, decided it was okay for now.) I will read your replies, pick up later and keep posting to William's (I'm sure it will include consideration of others' replies too.) I'm not sure why, but I feel this is a hugely important issue, both for us if we are healed enough, and for FA. Have a good day everyone!
[Updated on: Sun, 04 May 2008 11:38] Broken vessel in training: Pressing on to experience the fullness of Acts 17:28: For in Him we live, and move, and have our being...
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1779 is a reply to message #1776] |
Sun, 04 May 2008 04:16 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
JWBTI Messages: 253 Registered: March 2007 Location: Ohio |
Senior Member |
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Capturedbygrace:
Greetings in Jesus Name!
Please forgive me for jumping in on this topic Ref :The Now Faith Assembly !
Over the last two years, I have at times tried to communicate with Bro Joe, Pastor at FA. He would not respond to E-mails.
Although He refered to us as the Old Guards in his blog. (Us, being those who where at FA & the Glory Barn before he showed up.)
His Blog has been very negative toward me & others from the Old Guard.......It is not that we haven't tried to show forth our love an
compassion for the Body in Warsaw......Yep, we care !
But what happens when the Parent Church rejects the children ? (as if to say FA in Warsaw was our Parent Church) ?!
What about Tom Hamilton ?
I think he has been keeping the message longer than Bro Joe......Wonder what Tom would think about Joes Blog ?
Have ya heard any of Toms messages lately ?
So what do we do ? Drive to Warsaw 3 times a week or Shelbyville Ky or even Grand Rapids or is there not a God in Ohio,
MIch, in Bhama or Fla or Ky or in the town that you live in ?
Ron
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1781 is a reply to message #1765] |
Sun, 04 May 2008 19:31 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
capturedbygrace Messages: 41 Registered: April 2008 Location: Indianapolis, IN |
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Hi, again everyone! Let me first say, thank you all for not killing me. You've not used slash and burn here, and I'm very grateful (seriously)!! But I'm also very glad you're replying.
This post is not a "reply" post per say. Here I'm trying to amplify what I'm sensing in my heart so I don't intellectually try to argue my case--I guess I'm trying to let you see what I sense from my spiritual eyes to see if it resonates in your hearts...
I don't know how exactly to explain what I'm sensing about these issues I'm bringing up, but I still think they are vital. Until those of us who are healed enough (and God won't leave the rest of us unhealed if we want healing...hang on for it...) fully explore and wrestle with God about the "forgiveness enough to be able to pray in depth" for FA angle, and until we actually enter into (those who are called to it) a burden of intercession for them, I don't believe we will see what God wants to do.
I will be the first to say that applies to me as well, because I didn't have this burden any time over the years--until six or so weeks ago. I even thought I was healed - and I certainly was to a great degree - but then our church started getting the die to self, ask God about everything, learn your giftings message coming out weekly in embryonic form without religion (as far as I can discern) and, at this point without discernible pride. Brothers and sisters, I got scared. What has been scaring me has been the potential to have the chaff grow again...and I do not want to go there.
I went before God seeking Him and He said to "google Faith Assembly." I did and as I kept reading and praying, the Lord through various means has been having me (again!) intensely revisit that season, and the good He's brought out of it. As always, in such a looking back, what isn't healed also comes to the surface (sort of like "dirty foam"). I believe God is skimming that layer of foam off me, and as He does, I keep sensing there is something He wants accomplished with FA that cannot happen without intercession. It is so crucial, that I believe if we who were "birthed there" won't do it, He will raise up others in our place--and if that happens they will be blessed in ways we would have been if we'd yielded to God's prompting, which goes beyond all man's speaking and reasoning.
I think that Faith Assembly (the body connected with Joe Brenneman)--and as another brother said, there are others who are claiming to have the message also (who disagree among themselves), but I don't know about them--I'm speaking of the body I said, is meant by God to be a key player in days to come. No, I don't sense we should all go rushing back!! Quite the contrary, I believe we shouldn't unless God were to expressly draw us and direct us (and even if He did so, He would not draw us to correct her--that's His job)!! In this hour if we will listen, He will position us exactly where He wants us, and the only safe, fruitful place to be (as we know) is the one He gives us.
Therein lies the rub (referring to God desiring FA to be a key player in days to come). I believe there are things needing to be accomplished in her to fit her for whatever, just exactly like there are things needing to be done in me to fit me for whatever--and "whatever" does not mean "glory in the flesh visions of greatness!"
I say the following in fear and trembling before God: I believe Faith Assembly won't be able to fulfill what God is trying to fit her for (and I really don't even think I have more than an inkling of what that might be) without some "heavy-duty heartfelt longing to see her right in the center of God's will" intercession. Why? Because what you guys (me too) have been wrestling over regarding the chaff around the message is precisely what the enemy doesn't want her, the Faith Assembly body, not just individuals (though it starts there) to see in fullness and deal with. I have sound reason to believe she's already made great strides with what she has seen, and the enemy really doesn't want her to see more. It cripples her, so why wouldn't the enemy work hard to keep her from seeing it? I also say I believe with all my heart that Joe Brenneman is a true shepherd with courage and integrity, and that to the extent that the Holy Spirit has removed the blinders, to the extent that God has spoken to him, he has heard and responded. But he can't respond to what he can't see as revealed by God, not man.
I believe the same thing is true with us. God keeps gently and firmly showing me things about my past that, if I don't deal with them now with Him will be a snare in my future. People have really been praying for me (and please, if God lays it on your heart, will you pray for me?). They have prayed God reveal my blind spots, heal me where I need healing, and purify me. Blind spots are the enemy's business--he's an expert at them. If I know I have a stronghold of pride or fear for instance, I will seek God for the gift of repentance and deliverance and war against it. The enemy wants to keep me blind because he knows if I see it that I have the tools to deal with it and will do so. However, if I don't know it, if the enemy can keep it hidden from me, I will be operating in it and to the extent I do, I cannot fulfill God's will for my life.
I believe the enemy is trying to hold on to any ground he can at Faith Assembly. He knows God has deposited many truths there, and he is trying to cripple her so they cannot fully come out in purity, love and power. You've seen some of the "foam." But if she doesn't get a heart understanding of it, she won't be able to repent and experience the deep cleansing she must have to operate the way God wants her to. I am sensing that with both individuals and bodies He's called (what's good for the goose is good for the gander...).
Friends, God in the days to come wants to lead through holy, cleansed, mature, broken vessels He's restored. But the enemy's design is to keep us vessels (both individuals and bodies) from knowing what needs to be cleansed through his weapons of distraction, deception, distortion, accusation, hurt, anger and the rest of his arsenal of tricks.
Let's examine one of his tricks - telling us that we've moved on, and FA no longer matters to our lives. It is true that we don't need Faith Assembly from an idolatry standpoint - we don't want to long for "the good old days." They were a stage in our growth, nothing more. We can't camp there. Besides, it is only young children who can get away with impunity with idolizing parents and thinking they can do no wrong.
By the way, it's easy to see as you've picked up, he's also trying to tell Faith Assembly that she doesn't need us. I beg to differ - yes she does - she needs "her children" to love, respect and pray for her even when she shows herself (like the rest of us) to be a vessel of clay. No, in the natural I don't think she needs us all to come back and "swell her ranks" again (unless God absolutely says, I think that would be a "fleshly vision of glory"). I keep getting the impression that it's a situation where God wants to bring the body of Faith Assembly to wholeness along with the people who received what God had to offer but left. I also think that it will only happen through prayer. In fact, I honestly wonder if we individuals can come to total wholeness without praying for her welfare... .
We, none of us - the body of Faith Assembly, nor those birthed from her - can by our own mind, our own strength broker a godly peace here. It is only the Holy Spirit who is the arbiter of true, lasting peace that passes all understanding.
"Captured by Grace, do you have peace with Faith Assembly," you ask? Only a tenuous one at best. But it is so important that God bring me to peace with her and her to peace with me. "Chaff" is getting in the way of that on both sides...but I know if I keep praying for her (and myself) God will make a way. Faith Assembly was one of those "before/after" events in our lives. It's like the auto accident - there's a clear demarcation, also our son who died - another clear turning point. Faith Assembly as well was a turning point-leaving Faith Assembly I was forever changed from before I came... God wants it put to total rest, friends. He wants to bring such healing to all that we no longer need message boards etc (though I'm so thankful God raised yours up for this stage of my healing...). He wants to do such a miracle of healing that I no longer would have pages and pages of people's brokenness to break my heart (and I only feel a portion of what my Lord feels).
I believe what our wonderful God wants to do is finish this work regarding Faith Assembly (what work is left you ask?-if you get praying I believe with all my heart God will tell you-and He not only can tell you, but He has the power to "fix it"...) in all our hearts, and get us ready for what He's getting ready to do. He is ready to breathe His life back in to us in ways we had no idea we still needed it...and then He will place and commission us for this next hour... . I believe this next season we will be so busy, productive and fruitful using all the good we have had deposited by God that the pain of the past will be translated to "the joy of the present" and seem worthwhile. I believe what He is going to do next is going to be "beyond all we can ask or think"--but not in fleshly ways. I for one want to be a broken-healed person, along with my brothers and sisters and Faith Assembly; I want us whole enough that we can have "front row seats" so to speak--so we can be in the middle (center) of what God is doing. Don't you? Ready or not...it's coming... . May the Lord richly bless each of our hearts and fill us with hope, expectation and holy joy that will carry us through the rest of our "prep" time... . Later, friends
Broken vessel in training: Pressing on to experience the fullness of Acts 17:28: For in Him we live, and move, and have our being...
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1783 is a reply to message #1765] |
Sun, 04 May 2008 22:11 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
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william Messages: 1456 Registered: January 2006 |
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Hombre wrote on Sat, 03 May 2008 10:38 |
moulder wrote on Fri, 02 May 2008 19:15 | I guess I see it a little different than you, but I think I see your point. I'm all for praying for the current FA (something I confess I haven't done much of) but I'm not willing to just sweep things under the rug either and ignore some of the areas where I believe we were dead wrong.
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LIke where for example?
![Laughing](images/smiley_icons/icon_lol.gif)
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It wasn't until I quoted the above that I saw your smiley face and realized that you were just being funny!
I'll go ahead and answer, but you could go back and read over your own previously posted list which summarized the matter much more eloquently.
For the most part those things would be disagreements over external (and mostly superficial) stuff that we've beat to death here.
TV, shoes, tee shirts, caps, kilts (http://realmenwearkilts.net!), and stuff like that.
More importantly, stuff like our attitudes (elitism, legalism, etc.), our love (or lack of), in short: our application of the teaching.
Doctrinally speaking, I only have a few things that come to mind, some of which are included in the above list... divorce & remarriage (mostly our attitudes toward those who were and not specifically the negative portrayal of divorce in the Bible), clothing laws from the OT presented as NT laws, men not wearing caps while praising God (lest anyone think I'm only concerned with feminine issues!!), the prevention of women from using certain gifts of the Holy Spirit, and the silent requirement of those women.
Doctrinal agreement would categorize me more than doctrinal disagreement (especially with the Gideon's army message and the theological teachings).
Got to get the hamburgers on the grill now… bye!
Blessings,
William
I want to believe!
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1791 is a reply to message #1779] |
Tue, 06 May 2008 02:05 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
JWBTI Messages: 253 Registered: March 2007 Location: Ohio |
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Hombre wrote:
1.Yeah...what about Tom Hamilton....? I think that if you so a search on his name, somewhere along the line I saw a mailing address and some other info..but I can't remember where.......
2. We know that there is no God on Obama...er...Osama.....er.....
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Hombre, sorry that I was not being clear in my ref to Tom.............try this
Ref the statement made by Capturedbygrace May 2, 2008 about FA.
(They seem near as I can tell to be custodians of the message, and I wonder if their job isn't to bring those truths to other parts of the body of Christ that are part of the remnant and don't know it yet.)
1. Why couldn't Tom be Custodian or keeper of the message as well as Joe or some of the other Bodies in Indiana,
as if to say anyone has copyrights on Gods Word......
2.Wonder who James was talkin to down there ?
Capturedbygrace.............Question ?
Why couldn't Moulder be the Custodian.......I think he has All or most of the Tapes of Bro Freeman; or could any good come
out of Alabama (smile) Sorry James, dont mean to rub ya the wrong way now......you southern folks can be little touchy
at times.
Capturedbygrace:......Question ?
What about you an others on this board ? Are we just dead meat or could all of us be part of that Remnant also ?
If that be true:
What ! are we a Remnant of ? Faith Assembly or Truth taught from The Word of God ?
Ron
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1793 is a reply to message #1791] |
Tue, 06 May 2008 13:32 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
capturedbygrace Messages: 41 Registered: April 2008 Location: Indianapolis, IN |
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Good morning, all!
Y'all said (getting into Southern mode :
Capturedbygrace.............Question ?
Why couldn't Moulder be the Custodian.......I think he has All or most of the Tapes of Bro Freeman; or could any good come
out of Alabama (smile) Sorry James, dont mean to rub ya the wrong way now......you southern folks can be little touchy
at times.
Capturedbygrace:......Question ?
What about you an others on this board ? Are we just dead meat or could all of us be part of that Remnant also ?
If that be true:
What ! are we a Remnant of ? Faith Assembly or Truth taught from The Word of God ?
I love these questions - I won't answer the specific one about Alabama - I could be treading on dangerous territory--that would be dumb--and we know I'm not dumb...right?...I'm not hearing anything...
William could be "custodian" in the way FA is meant to be a) by going back and identifying with her or b) if he'd been led to raise up another body with that specific focus--to demonstrate God is faithful in every detail of life. It sounds like he (and you all) try to demonstrate that now, but I understand he was not led at least to this point to start a body for that specific purpose with that specific call... you are in a church "out here" now, right William?
For the record, I don't think any of us are dead meat. And I do believe all who believe and are doing their best to embrace the message God gave are a remnant, not of Faith Assembly, but of Truth taught from the Word of God. I think that viewing ourselves, as you rightly pointed out, as "a remnant of Faith Assembly" is part of that "elitist mentality chaff." For that matter, I also believe others that we don't know of yet will prove by their life and walk that they also are part of the remnant of the Word of God, and that is why I'm so very against idolizing FA. Making an idol of it twists the truth and tries to make it ineffective. If any of us (including me) is holding on to anything but Jesus, we are already in error. That includes Faith Assembly--if they are "proud to be keepers of the flame," I believe that's definitely "chaff."
Acknowledging that very emphatically, I'm going back to what I'm seeing. Faith Assembly sees her calling as a body as a "keeper of the good Word of God we were taught" (even though her sight at present is mixed with chaff). Everybody, I have a question for you - are you in a body where all of those truths are proclaimed and taught all the time, and where people have been wrestling and trying to live them for over 30 years? If so, you also are "keepers of the truth of the Word of God" in the same way they are (as I said of William), which means on both an individual level and on a body level. True, Joe Brenneman as pastor has not been there that long, but he's been there since 1988 and pastored there for 14 years...and others have been there much longer... . I believe with all my heart there is something God wants to do with that group that we out here as individuals cannot do. I also really cannot say fully what that is because I only have an inkling...but I think it's very important (but not in that twisted, elitist sense!)--and it can't happen unless the chaff is seen and removed through repentance by that body.
I believe we too are part of the remnant taught the Word of God. We too have a specific unique place as part of the "scattered remnant of the truths of God's Word" if we aren't called to be with her. We have a call that Faith Assembly as a body cannot do "out here." (Individuals can squeeze into places and influence things in a way a body can't and vice versa.) In the future I wouldn't put it past God even to draw some back to Faith Assembly if He has a purpose for her (and if He drew some of you, you would then be a keeper of the Word in the way they are called to be)--but if He ever did, I think He would have finished the mighty work of removing the chaff from her first, so that the only thing ever acknowledged would be that the body stood by the grace of God (though they already acknowledge that and are partly broken), and no one would ever think in that elitist manner that they had to be a "guardian of the truth." (If you are a "guardian of the truth" in the flesh, your own strength, you can get paranoid and all sorts of other things that don't produce God's fruit.) Let me make it clear: I believe they are standing in the integrity of their heart, but they are operating with an elitist mentality that is crippling them -and they can't see it even if someone were to point it out.
The thing is, the enemy will try and twist our attitudes if he can't cause us to disbelieve the Word of God. I know what I'm talking about--six years before my husband divorced me, I told him one day that we (at that point) served two different G(g)ods. He got very angry at first, but the next day came back and said I was right. - He served a task-master god whom he was always afraid to displease. He used the truths of positive confession, etc to not have to deal with things. But he thought I was compromising and serving a different god! Now, there was a point in time where I served a false, distorted god. Just as he couldn't see his view was distorted, I couldn't see mine was. (But by the time I said he and I served different G(g)ods, God had convicted me and turned me on my ear. He said I had used faith to keep from having to deal with life...that I was afraid of life and tried to use God and His Word as a "magic wand" to avoid problems. That is why we then served two different G(g)ods. I had repented.)
Faith Assembly's elitist chaff, unbeknownst to them is crippling them just like my chaff had crippled me. I've grown by leaps and bounds since repenting of it (that doesn't mean that there isn't more to go...). Her chaff is a little different at this point in time. Her chaff blocks her from seeing any use for the rest of us, and the rest of the body of Christ. It keeps her cloistered (I don't care if they for example, feel led to dress a certain way, not look at media, ... --they should have their faith toward God--but the chaff is what causes them to, so to speak, hold it over my head (even though they wrestle against it and work very hard to try not to--the fact that there is any work to it at all means there is some chaff). She can't come into her own as the body God wants and have the influence He wants her to have till He gets rid of what's holding her back.
Is any of this making sense? Well, before I go I have a prayer request. Twice since January (second time was last evening) the enemy has (first time ever) tried to give me some mini-stroke symptoms. God is my healer, and I'm just trusting for His wisdom--I'm holding that He knows my body, He knows how to deal with it and me. I receive His healing in Jesus' name, and I can do everything (Eph 2:10 works) He has planned for my life. No weapon formed against me shall prosper, and I don't go to join Him till His perfect time. Would you join me in prayer? Also, the timing of things: it started just before I started "googling" Faith Assembly. The areas the enemy tried to attack are speech, my writing/typing and my mind (thinking clearly). Thank you, friends...
[Updated on: Tue, 06 May 2008 13:57] Broken vessel in training: Pressing on to experience the fullness of Acts 17:28: For in Him we live, and move, and have our being...
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1794 is a reply to message #1791] |
Tue, 06 May 2008 13:46 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
capturedbygrace Messages: 41 Registered: April 2008 Location: Indianapolis, IN |
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Okay, quickie--splitting Lake Michigan in half--has potential. Just think what you could do with that, Hombre! --You might say it could profit the prophet. I just wanted you to know I saw this, and hope some of today's comments (which I put out before I saw this) address at least some of these concerns, and some of what I'm definitely not saying as well as what I am saying.
[Updated on: Tue, 06 May 2008 14:00] Broken vessel in training: Pressing on to experience the fullness of Acts 17:28: For in Him we live, and move, and have our being...
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1795 is a reply to message #1791] |
Tue, 06 May 2008 16:07 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
james Messages: 2137 Registered: April 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL |
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My thoughts on "KEEPERS" of the Word, am I seeing some type of rivalry going on concerning who is the keeper of Gods message? Are not all who walk in what we recieved and share it with others, the keepers of the Word? Remember I said these are just my thoughts,and I'm not in Indiana,(and it's questionable if good really can come out of Ala.)<said in jest> but I sense maybe pride in who is REALLY keeping The Word as HEF taught it,and stayed or lives in Indiana, verses those who are scattered and can't really be Gods remnant due to their geographical location. Now I'd really like to be able to say that I've been a keeper of God's Word over the last 20+ yrs. but that would be somewhat untrue. I've spent quite a bit of that time trying to gain a balance and come to grips with where I stand with my Lord. At the same time I can say I haven't given up believing for God to raise up a army of believers who are equipted as we were starting to become, without the crap we got into through pride and legalism (not everone, just most)to set this groaning creation free, to actually see the Church of Jesus Christ DOING the works of God in a way the unbelieving world will be drawn to HIM, not Faith Assembly or Indiana or "ALABAMA" but JESUS. Custodians, Keepers, 3 pastors in Indiana, Tom Hamilton, William, Hombre??? How bout ALL who with diligence and pure hearts hold fast to THE WORD of GOD and LIVE IT???
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1796 is a reply to message #1795] |
Tue, 06 May 2008 17:09 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
capturedbygrace Messages: 41 Registered: April 2008 Location: Indianapolis, IN |
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I like keepers, James, and to me any who are trying to live the things of which they've been convicted from hearing God speak through Faith Assembly whether by tape or being there qualifies. Not only that, but anyone working out their salvation who is walking it without ever hearing it even indirectly from those sources qualifies! The only reason I never speak of Tom Hamilton is because I haven't heard him for over 20 years! The same with any other minister or body--I only know of that one, and as the one where lots of us got lots of good things, I believe they are needing prayer help whether they know it or not. I don't ever mean to come across elitist--there should be no competition! For all I know there could be 100 bodies living it all over the country who have never even heard of FA and Hobart Freeman--and they could conceivably not have any battles with "chaff" to boot.
But again, I can only speak of what I know--no one in or out or having heard from there or somewhere else or by revelation from God is a "second class citizen." There should be no rivalry--I am of Paul, I am of Apollos. That's not in the farthest corner of my mind! I guess what I get a sense of is God is calling warriors to battle. If any other body or individual you know of is being attacked by that chaff when trying to live the Word, they need to be included in the prayer too. Pride over keeping the Word is just as much of a snare as turning our backs on it, and God says He resists the proud.
What I'm saying is that there is a call of God to help others being put to those body(ies) (FA, and any others you know--I truly am not exposed to others now) that proclaim the truth of the Word if they are in any way trying to keep it today. The only way that can happen is if the "chaff" of pride, elitism, yes competition, or whatever that would hinder them is prayed over by those who have been dealing with this stuff for years and at least have come to some sort of balance.
Now I'd really like to be able to say that I've been a keeper of God's Word over the last 20+ yrs. but that would be somewhat untrue. I've spent quite a bit of that time trying to gain a balance and come to grips with where I stand with my Lord.
That's me too, James. Sometimes with me it's "Lord I believe, help my unbelief." Sometimes it's, "Where am I lopsided, Lord?"
At the same time I can say I haven't given up believing for God to raise up an army of believers who are equipped as we were starting to become, without the crap we got into through pride and legalism (not everyone, just most) to set this groaning creation free, to actually see the Church of Jesus Christ DOING the works of God in a way the unbelieving world will be drawn to HIM, not Faith Assembly or Indiana or "ALABAMA" but JESUS.
Me too, brother--and that's precisely where if we pray and ask God I think He wants to work at FA, and in any body (and individual) which got into the pride, legalism. They/we could be convicted of this "chaff," and you know what would be left if they/we repented??? Just what you describe, brother, just what you describe. That's what I think God wants to do. It isn't His desire to have to "reinvent that wheel" but to make the wheel(s) that He already created usable through repentance--and add everyone else who wants to go with it--to Jesus-not pride and competition and an "elite body."
And this is so good, I'm going to pirate it for my ending. James said: Custodians, Keepers, 3 pastors in Indiana, Tom Hamilton, William, Hombre??? How bout ALL who with diligence and pure hearts hold fast to THE WORD of GOD and LIVE IT??? Yes!
[Updated on: Tue, 06 May 2008 17:16] Broken vessel in training: Pressing on to experience the fullness of Acts 17:28: For in Him we live, and move, and have our being...
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1797 is a reply to message #1796] |
Wed, 07 May 2008 01:34 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
PR Messages: 1 Registered: December 2007 Location: Northern, IN |
Junior Member |
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My first post...this is scary....
I must say that my sensitivity to the spirit has been coming to lfe as I read these tremendous truths & observations from brothers & sisters I've likely never met - yet we have so much in common!
My time with Faith Assembly was precious and I'm thankful. Yet I have sought a balance while still wanting to go deeper. I've noticed that some blessings just won't come until my heart is right with my husband, children, in-laws, co-workers - and believe me, I'm a work in progress!
Capturedbygrace - you have touched my heart in a way I cannot describe. Without the elitism I've tried to shed, I think you are on to something! The bonds of the indviduals of the past, present, and future Faith Assembly may well yet become a force that must be reckoned with! All those years of sleepless nights, praying for one another, formed bonds in the spirit that I believe will last. Those prayer-ties may seem non-existent for now, but they are there and will be revealed in God's time by the spirit.
I shall indeed pray for your healing & protection from the stroke symptoms that are trying to silence your voice. Yours is a voice, with a message, that surely God wants me to be hearing MORE of in these troubled times!
Blessings!
PR
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1798 is a reply to message #1796] |
Wed, 07 May 2008 01:35 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
JWBTI Messages: 253 Registered: March 2007 Location: Ohio |
Senior Member |
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Hombre don't be offended, I haven't left you out......I got just the thing, for the slashing & burning & parting the lake.
Being that we are all in this togeather.
Lets have a Seminar !
We need a name for it.......Ok, someone come up with a name or Topic for the Seminar.
We'll need a centralized town for a meeting point & a building or a park or Fair Grounds.
We could start the preaching at 9:00 am & go till 9:00 pm or till the Holy Spirit is done.
Ok, here is my suggested line up of speakers....
9:00 am Hombre...................................(the slashing an burning will get there eyes open-They will be awake)
10:00 am Michael the Disciple...............( Michael will touch there hearts with the purity & Holiness of Gods Word)
11:00 am Capturedbygrace...................(By this time the people will need a kind an gentle voice to heal there flesh)
12:01 pm Moulder...............................(He will capture there hearts with wisdom from on high)
1:00 pm Sageshrooner.......................(after Moulder, she will have her hands full, to pick up the pieces with wisdom & Love)
2:00 pm Mark 11:24..........................( the Word just keeps getting stronger)
3:00 pm JRS....................................( a man after Gods heart, full of the Holy Spirit)
4:00 pm James.................................( His desire is to draw all of us closer to God)
5:00 pm Hardbones............................(street smart an Has a unconditional love for others & Gods Word)
6:00 pm Whitearizona.........................(Defender of the Faith in Gods Word)
7:00 pm DBH.....................................(has an uncompromising Faith in Gods Word to heal an set free from all sickness)
8:00 pm Tomax7.................................(much wisdom from his continual walk in Jesus Christ an His Word)
Intercession will continue thru out the Seminar, Gifts of The Holy Spirit should comeforth as the Spirit bids.
Laying on of Hands for Healing will continue thru out the meeting as the Spirit wills.
Praise & worship will continue thru out the night.
9:00 am We'll start all over again......!
Wow ! what a Line up......I have been so Blessed to have crossed paths with all of you.........!
Ok now..!.......what do ya think ?.......We could make this happen..!...
Ron
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1799 is a reply to message #1798] |
Wed, 07 May 2008 02:40 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
sparkles Messages: 246 Registered: March 2008 |
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Brother Ron, this sounds like a wonderful idea, count me in!
It makes me smile to dream of getting together with these precious saints of God and worshipping our Lord. The all night paise and worship sounds great! And speaking of worship I just got Carl Seitz's CD's from Musicman and they are outstanding, I would highly recommend them.
I know God has great things for us ahead, but I do miss some of the old days with the fellowship of the saints, the Word that was taught and of course, the heavenly worship and gifts of the Holy Spirit and all the testimonies that people glorified God with. But I know we don't need to settle for what we had, but to look ahead for what God has for us today and tomorrow and as long as the Lord tarries, because it is going to be/is wonderful.
Thanks again Ron for the edifying lineup, it truly blessed my evening!
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1800 is a reply to message #1799] |
Wed, 07 May 2008 12:03 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
JWBTI Messages: 253 Registered: March 2007 Location: Ohio |
Senior Member |
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Up date on the Seminar:
Those not listed above, feel free to move as the Spirit leads to minister to others.
All times and speakers are tenitive an subject to the Holy Spirit as He moves amoung us.
No real names will be published so not take any Glory from the Lord Jesus Christ.
First names and or Internet handles will be acceptable.
This will be a Wonderful time in the Lord.
Blessings to all in Jesus Name
Ron
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1801 is a reply to message #1797] |
Wed, 07 May 2008 12:05 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
capturedbygrace Messages: 41 Registered: April 2008 Location: Indianapolis, IN |
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Thank you, dear sister, and from my little corner, welcome! I figured if anyone could stand with me it is those who've been doing their best to walk the message God has given us. It is a privilege to have your prayer. God bless your day, sis!
[Updated on: Wed, 07 May 2008 12:06] Broken vessel in training: Pressing on to experience the fullness of Acts 17:28: For in Him we live, and move, and have our being...
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1802 is a reply to message #1798] |
Wed, 07 May 2008 12:15 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
capturedbygrace Messages: 41 Registered: April 2008 Location: Indianapolis, IN |
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Thank you, brother. You seem to have the lineup in good order, but judging from what I've already seen this morning we may need to add at least one more to the list... God is at work... It could happen. God bless your day, brother, and I appreciate you as well.
[Updated on: Wed, 07 May 2008 12:17] Broken vessel in training: Pressing on to experience the fullness of Acts 17:28: For in Him we live, and move, and have our being...
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1816 is a reply to message #1798] |
Wed, 07 May 2008 17:16 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
capturedbygrace Messages: 41 Registered: April 2008 Location: Indianapolis, IN |
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God's coffee cup...I like that (seriously)...you mean inside the heart of a person with a "slash and burn anointing" there can be the soul of a poet? My son has the "slash and burn anointing" - we've been talking about it since it came up here...while he's not got the soul of a poet (unique poetic imagery, I'll admit), he's a neat guy...
[Updated on: Wed, 07 May 2008 17:16] Broken vessel in training: Pressing on to experience the fullness of Acts 17:28: For in Him we live, and move, and have our being...
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1818 is a reply to message #1795] |
Wed, 07 May 2008 20:17 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
capturedbygrace Messages: 41 Registered: April 2008 Location: Indianapolis, IN |
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Okay--you'll appreciate (maybe) what my "slash and burn" son did in Indiana's primary--he did a write-in vote for Mike Huckabee...I said, "But he isn't running." He said, "Well if enough people would write him in you bet he would... ." He doesn't quite think like FA taught me about voting--speaking of, that's an area I'm not entirely comfortable with...I vote only after I've prayed if the Lord tells me to...sounds different, but I wasn't a political science major, and I have very little understanding of all the ins and outs of politics--so I figure if God tells me who to vote for (won't be either of the two democrats this time...) it won't be a mistake.
When Mr. Clinton was running first time, God said, "Go on record as opposed to him; it won't do any good, but do it anyway... ." That was the year I got some lessons in storms and clouds...inky black things riding across the sky...I sensed violence in them and asked God what I could do...He had me ride all around the small town I lived in at the time with warfare music (Integrity/Hosanna warfare sampler) wafting reasonably quietly out my windows, and said that what I was sensing was the demons riding to Washington (they've never left...). They wanted to break out in mischief on the way, and God said as I aligned with the worship on the tape I would be agreeing with their anointing and not be warring alone. I could pray protection over my town, but no rebuking--He was permitting this. --Now you know I'm even stranger than you suspected...
I agree with your wife who said: ...' isn't it odd that in this time of increased information becoming available to us, and all of the alternate sources of information that we have to learn from, that it seems as though people are actually becoming more ignorant rather than more informed? '.... Yes...but people today don't scratch below the surface...takes too much effort...their favorite TV show is coming on... .
Oh! (Note: this is poking fun at me, not your system.) I just noticed I got "upgraded." Thank you. I wondered if I had to behave myself for a year first (impossible!), but then decided to just be myself, and I would either get upgraded to regular member eventually or kicked out! Glad this happened first.
[Updated on: Wed, 07 May 2008 20:22] Broken vessel in training: Pressing on to experience the fullness of Acts 17:28: For in Him we live, and move, and have our being...
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1819 is a reply to message #1818] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 02:22 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
JWBTI Messages: 253 Registered: March 2007 Location: Ohio |
Senior Member |
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Praise Jesus for His Faithfullness,
The Now Report !
Just returned from the ER of our local hospital......a lady from our church was there, she had been in the ER six times in the last
week. She had been having bad reactions to the medications they had put her on. She was crying, she couldn't breath she was
shaking, she said it felt like her chest was caving in. The poor girl looked as if she was 20yrs older than she really was..She looked
really bad. The ER was full an her & her husband were sitting in the main hall way by the nurses station on a bed. A Brother from church had called an asked if I would meet them at the ER......Yep, I'll be there..The two of us walked in, we spoke to our sister an she requested that we pray... We prayed for a few moments in the Spirit out loud, in the main hall way of the ER....Oh my !
I laid hands on her head....spoke a few words..........It was done !
She said she would be ok an we walked out.Her An her husband were still sitting on the bed. My brother an I walked to our cars
an were talking , we looked back towards the ER entrance an Praise Jesus.....Here comes our sister, walking out of the ER,
She is Smiling an breathing an has no pain an she is going home because God has healed her.
Ron
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1828 is a reply to message #1816] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 13:11 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
capturedbygrace Messages: 41 Registered: April 2008 Location: Indianapolis, IN |
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Yup! Hombre, you are one sensitive guy! You are offering all those who want to beat you up an opportunity to "get right with God" and to grow in character! How's that for sensitivity??
Maybe you would appreciate the viewpoint of my "slash and burn" son (the one who, when I told him I had tried all those years to "civilize" him said, "Mom, you compromised me! ) as evidenced from a quote from his blog:
There are a lot of guys out there who have lost touch with what being a guy is all about. ...For instance, a guy can use a hair brush but he should never "brush" his hair. He can use the "brush" to comb his hair. ...One of my biggest pet peeves is hearing the word cute or pretty in reference to me or something I own! ...This vulgar use of words must not continue!! We must demand that "rugged" or "handsome" or even "ruggedly handsome" replace the obscene use of these other aforementioned words. ...
Ah, well, I'll get on with things
But look out, your "poetic soul" is showing again, and I quote you:
...and don't forks in the road also serve as tape measures of the soul?
Yes they do. One time when God was delivering me out of a tough situation, every time I went to make a decision for a whole six months He said, "This is what so and so decided at this point--now what is your choice?" (The good news is that so and so is getting a wonderful new opportunity--and I pray the person make choices that "go with God" this time...)
[Updated on: Thu, 08 May 2008 13:17] Broken vessel in training: Pressing on to experience the fullness of Acts 17:28: For in Him we live, and move, and have our being...
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1831 is a reply to message #1819] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 14:39 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
capturedbygrace Messages: 41 Registered: April 2008 Location: Indianapolis, IN |
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All kidding aside, it took people with the slash and burn mentality with regard to the denom system to open my eyes...started with Br Freeman, then when I was "leveled" and God put me back in the system for a season it took others to get me to really look at the system.
What can I say now, but that even though I've been sent into the system (and I'm no longer "hiding out there"), my instructions are to walk in visible demonstration of Jesus...no compromise! And now our body is "exploding from within... ."
Truthfully, the system is deadly. It robs people of all that the Lord is all the while claiming to represent Him... .
Broken vessel in training: Pressing on to experience the fullness of Acts 17:28: For in Him we live, and move, and have our being...
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1833 is a reply to message #1828] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 17:12 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
capturedbygrace Messages: 41 Registered: April 2008 Location: Indianapolis, IN |
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Hey all! I don't want to give a wrong impression (though I don't think you took it that way, Hombre). In regards to my son's comment about my having compromised him while I was trying to civilize him, let me make it clear--I was only trying to teach my son wisdom in when to use "slash and burn" and when not to, (his slash and burn started early...) like: "Don't go (when you're 14) to the pastor and tell him all that's wrong with the church - he was right - unless the Lord says - if you aren't led to but just want to you are stepping out of the Lord's protection - He's showing you to teach you discernment and prayer... ."
I did not even get or allow any of our guys to get a brush to "comb" their hair ...there were no purposeful feminizing tendencies...in fact, since I was a single mother much of the time, I really prayed for good masculine role models... I am very thankful they all are true men (not one of them reads "O"!!) who love God and respect and appreciate who God made them and women (one is married, while the other two are still unmarried, though they've prayed for the Lord's choice for wives or the grace to remain single).
What you're saying about society/TV today is right...I can't even look at "Queer..." because the title bothers me so much. The first time I turned on "Will and Grace" it lasted only long enough to see the focus...okay, I confess I like HGTV (but I am a woman)...but there are also other anti-God things like (I didn't even try to watch one episode here) "Sex and the City," and what about "Friends"--not the kind I think of... . The TV execs are trying to "program" our nation through entertainment and they seem to be doing a pretty good job for the most part... .
[Updated on: Thu, 08 May 2008 18:51] Broken vessel in training: Pressing on to experience the fullness of Acts 17:28: For in Him we live, and move, and have our being...
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1837 is a reply to message #1833] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 01:19 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
JWBTI Messages: 253 Registered: March 2007 Location: Ohio |
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Hombre wrote:
....sometimes, I think that one drug leads to another to another and so on.
...before one knows it, they have problems that are not even related to the original.
My wife has a friend who is an absolute hypochondriac....and over time, her issues have multiplied, so much so that their lives now revolve around these issues completely. They no longer have lives. Sad thing is, she is a Christian, but obviously, their 'church' has neither ever taught nor even inferred that healing through faith in God is a possibility. The unbelief is rooted so deeply, that I don't know if they'll ever get free.
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This is what we deal with on a weekly basis, our little group is not, an never will be part of the Denom...system..!
But don't fooled : The system is STILL IN THEM ! and as you said:
(.....this is the type of issue that creates and maintains my slash and burn mentality with reference to the denom church system).
I say: Amen....... Amen...... Amen.......mine also !
capturedbygrace wrote on Thu, 08 May 2008 09:39
....Truthfully, the system is deadly. It robs people of all that the Lord is all the while claiming to represent Him... .
Capturedbygrace, I also agree with you an Hombre on this 100 %:
Hombre wrote:
....someday when I grow up, I'll initiate my own threads.....
Hombre don't ever grow up ! I like ya just as you are ! Feel free to use my threads any time ya want !
JRS: Thanks for sharring the wonders of Gods faithfulness to His people !
Ron
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1847 is a reply to message #1676] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 21:32 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
JRS Messages: 36 Registered: December 2007 Location: Northern ILL. |
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AMEN and AMEN JW & Hombre
The DENOM system – that permeated the whole Charismatic movement, and yes even FA and the body I was part of.
You couldn’t have said it any better - But don't fooled : The system is STILL IN THEM !
I posed this question earlier - Is our concept of church itself correct???? Or because of our preconceived notions we hold onto, resulting in fostering the issues we are discussing???
Jae gave some responses and it is a good post – yet I cannot agree fully with it. #1821
There is only 1 TRUE church – Spirit Filled – The apostles were commanded to remain in Jerusalem until they received the promise from the Father. There is a reason Jesus himself commanded that and for others to explain away the Baptism, are they not denying the power of God in there lives.
I praise God and have the utmost respect for HEF and others that took the truths that were revealed to them and had the burden to teach them. I cannot fault the individuals for the damage that was done and might still be happening. To use an expression, I do not believe they are able to see the forest for the trees.
The Denom system had fulfilled what it has been successful doing from the time of the end of the NT church with the apostles. Thus the argument has stood – all signs and wonders stopped with the apostles.
I pose this question again, not to begin a debate about it but to get a better understanding of how deception has entered in. All the posters here have insight and some very reveling thoughts. It seems as though God is working, and with all the time that has past, a number of us have chosen to examine and be truthful with our experiences. I believe we all have the same desire – to Please God and to be a vessel of honor for Him.
There is a worldly axiom – The best teacher is the school of hard knocks. So true – has been and still is, even though we have all this access to information.
So True Hombre in what your wife said - ....' isn't it odd that in this time of increased information becoming available to us, and all of the alternate sources of information that we have to learn from, that it seems as though people are actually becoming more ignorant rather than more informed? '....
We have been So desensitized as a result of all this information that many rationalize things away and forget the basics. This even true pertaining to the things of the world.
Whether it is through the media, or even our everyday experiences. They all seem to speaking out with the same voice – COMPROMISE. – Marshmallow love ---
Yes even the denom churches have been deluged with this. They have to keep up with most others – otherwise who would they give their stars out to???
I fully understand what Jae is trying to get at and agree with it as far as the premise for what he is saying. The answer is not in fellowshipping with other churches!!!! To do this would only result in compromise in the least or the elitist attitude that was mentioned.
It’s an exiting time we have the privilege to live in.
I think it is very interesting seeing what the US has done as a nation over the last 50 years.
- Changed whole countries and cultures.
- Promoted freedom and how one can believe in oneself.
These countries are now set to promote what they believe is the best kingdom and we know who is in control of ALL the kingdoms of this world. I’m waiting for something to take place and we will see an uprising of a spirit of patriotism that the true colors of this country will stand out. It will definitely define what god the denominations choose to worship.
JRS
It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
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Re: Faith Assembly, then and now... an update [message #1849 is a reply to message #1847] |
Sat, 10 May 2008 10:33 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to previous message](theme/default/images/down.png) |
JWBTI Messages: 253 Registered: March 2007 Location: Ohio |
Senior Member |
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Hombre wrote:
Yeppers....that is really the problem isn't it?
They may have borrowed a form of our ( charismatic ) worship, by donning guitars in favor of pipe organs, and changed the sign to read: Non-Denominational Full-Gospel Bible Study Worship Center, but the people still cling to the whole 'stand up/sit down' mentality.
....to be sort of well....cruel...it reminds me of a scripture:
'.....having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof......'
....and that really isn't far from the truth, when they begin that whole round of NON-scriptural notions about God helping those who help themselves and that's why God heals through the doctors now....apparently, they believe that Luke was a 'form' or 'shadow' of 'those that were to come'....a sort of twist on the whole Messianic prophecy thing......
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Yeppers...... that was a little cruel.......being some of them really do want to draw closer to God an do it His way.
Yeppers...that could be said for some of us also......even us from FA !
Hombre Wrote:
....I wonder what would happen if they actually read the Bible they say they preach?
......you know, that verse that says something like this:
'...and these signs SHALL follow those THAT BELIEVE:....IN MY NAME they SHALL:
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Hombre, what signs are following you ? What is God doing in your life today ? Please share the wonders of His work in your life today !
Ron
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