Home » Theological Doctrine » Christian Ethics » In Our Image
| In Our Image [message #5057] |
Mon, 09 February 2009 16:46  |
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 william
Messages: 1464
Registered: January 2006 |
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Hombre,
In the thread "Marriage" you made this observation:
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To encapsulate:
William is saying:
Marriage is about MORE than a piece of paper ( The divorce statistics
ought to be enough to tell anyone that )....but he ( William ) leaves it
for us to determine/recognize/understand/ discern for ourselves what that
is...he assumes that we know.
'.....For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the
things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto
themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their
conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while
accusing or else excusing one another;)...' ~ Rom 2:14-15
..and indeed we DO know...even those who are NOT saved know. We should
begin to stop this nonsense that those outside of the church ( i.e. the
unsaved/unregenerated ) don't have minds to think with. They most
certainly do, I have just quoted Gods' Word which declares that He Himself
has already written His laws into their hearts ( 'by nature' : i.e. they
are born with this intrinsic knowledge ).
People CHOOSE to do what they do, and the consequences are a result of
their choices. That is why those who reject Christ are competent to stand
trial before God on that day: they KNEW what was right, yet they chose to
reject it.
All of the moral laws that have been written, including those which God
HImself has written into the hearts of unregenerate men have shown little
evidence of being respected or followed because they exist. This is the
lesson that God has attempted to teach mankind from the garden through the
dispensation of Moses law. It is not about what one CAN or CAN'T do, it is
about the heart and whether we will make choices based upon what we know
to be good, righteous etc., for bigger reasons than simply and blindly
following road signs, because they are there.
That does not discount however, the fact that the law in it's purpose
was/is good.
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Specifically you mention the idea that we gentiles have God's law written
on our hearts... this got me to thinking about the creation of man.
Obviously Paul makes this statement and I take it at face value, but do
you think (or anyone else) that he is saying that the Jews did not have
this internal knowledge and the gentiles did? I assume the answer is no
(although I do think it is interesting that Paul phrased it in the way he
did!).
But to continue...
At what point did this knowledge-written-on-the-heart appear? At the
formation of the man, or did it come later when God actually gave the
command to Adam? Or did it come after Adam and Eve disobeyed?
I don't have an answer myself, only questions! Perhaps someone has some
insight that will benefit us all.
Blessings,
William
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| Re: In Our Image [message #5062 is a reply to message #5057] |
Mon, 09 February 2009 20:50  |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Those are some deep questions there William. Surely it came after Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But then again, maybe not; because they already knew not to do it. But they knew it from the mouth of God, when He told them what they could and couldn't do. Eve made the choice to disobey, by listening to the serpent, and Adam didn't didn't do any better by allowing her to influence him into eating it. Maybe from that point on, God wrote it upon the hearts of all mankind.
So I'm thinking God didn't write it upon Adam and Eve's hearts, because He told them personally. But from that point on He wrote upon all men's hearts the knowledge of right and wrong or good and evil.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: In Our Image [message #5377 is a reply to message #5064] |
Sat, 28 February 2009 12:58 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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William,
I think it is AWSOME that God had opened a door for you to share the knowledge and wisdom you've received. Also I wonder if the door would have been opened if you had sat at home like so many of us do? I pray God will bring forth fruit from these seeds you're sowing.
So the struggle continues, what to do about Heb.10:25 when we can't find a new testament church?
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: In Our Image [message #5378 is a reply to message #5377] |
Sat, 28 February 2009 15:10 |
JWBTI
Messages: 253
Registered: March 2007
Location: Ohio |
Senior Member |
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So the struggle continues, what to do about Heb.10:25 when we can't find a new testament church?
James we might ponder this:
Mk 16:14-20, 14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at
meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness
of heart, because they believed not them which had seen
him after he was risen.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and
preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but
he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my
name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new
tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any
deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands
on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was
received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord
working with them, and confirming the word with signs
following. Amen. (KJV)
Ron
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| Re: In Our Image [message #5380 is a reply to message #5378] |
Sat, 28 February 2009 16:08 |
JWBTI
Messages: 253
Registered: March 2007
Location: Ohio |
Senior Member |
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James,
This is my motto:( I got it from Hombre )
Creating upheaval in the unbelieving church through the doctrines of the Word of God,one moment, one thought, one person at a time.
But ya got to be there,to do this.
Ron
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| Re: In Our Image [message #5384 is a reply to message #5380] |
Sat, 28 February 2009 18:53 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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So are you saying that you attend an unbelieving church and are creating upheavel within it by teaching the doctrines of God's Word, one on one, one at a time?
Wow! You've either got the fastest growing church in America, or they hate you and want to throw you out, cause that's what happened to Jesus. They either flocked to Him to see the miracles and be feed or they sought to kill Him.
'And these signs shall follow them that BELIEVE; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.'
Is this happening through you or around you, or are you still in the 'pondering' stage? Just asking, if God is working in the assembly you attend and they're receiving the truth of God's Word, praise God...please share some testimonies with us to encourage and build us up. I'm not arguing with scriptures, I believe them, I just don't know of where these signs and wonders are being confirmed by Jesus.
I want to believe it's happening somewhere...
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: In Our Image [message #5398 is a reply to message #5384] |
Sat, 28 February 2009 21:58 |
JWBTI
Messages: 253
Registered: March 2007
Location: Ohio |
Senior Member |
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Bro James,
I go where the Spirit leads. I take what little knowledge I have and Believe that He
will fill my mouth with the right words to affect the hearts of those that hear me.
Not all receive, but some have turn to the Word and received it gladly.
Yes, I am still pondering, but I am also going too ! I’ve shared testimonies of what God
has done, you can review my posts.
Blessings
Ron
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| Re: In Our Image [message #5402 is a reply to message #5377] |
Sun, 01 March 2009 03:10 |
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william
Messages: 1464
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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On Sat, 28 Feb 2009, James wrote:
>
>
> William,
>
> I think it is AWSOME that God had opened a door for you to share the
> knowledge and wisdom you've received. Also I wonder if the door would
> have been opened if you had sat at home like so many of us do? I pray
> God will bring forth fruit from these seeds you're sowing.
>
> So the struggle continues, what to do about Heb.10:25 when we can't find
> a new testament church?
>
>
You probably are not going to find a "new testament church". I think we
ought to just accept that reality. Not saying that God can't raise one
up, but we've all been wandering around now for 20+ years, and I could
count the number of times I've been close to a NT assembly on the fingers
of an amputee. I don't think any of us (with maybe the exception of the
Kentucky group!) would argue with that.
Once you face that reality, then you can get rid of a couple more crazy
notions like:
1) I'm looking for a church where I can get fed.
Ha, Ha...
I hate to be so negative, but face it, it ain't going to happen. If you
haven't already taken your spiritual growth into your own hands, then I'm
not sure if you are serious about Christianity. (Using "you" in a general
sense here.)
2) God hasn't led me to attend any of the churches in my area. (Just
like He hasn't led you to a NT assembly?)
This goes along with the statement brother Freeman once made about the
dangers of darkening the door of a denominational church, which, of
course, gives us an excuse to not be "led" to any of the churches in your
area!
Which brings us to Heb 10:25-- Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves
together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much
the more, as ye see the day approaching.
You can certainly justify not attending any church (we all understand what
is meant by the term "church", right?) if there aren't any Christians
present, as the verse has in mind like-minded-christian-believers, and not
the church building and/or denomination. However, if there are Christians
who regularly assemble, be it in a denominational church building, or
otherwise, then I think that it is fitting that we attempt to fellowship
with these believers. They may be but babes in Christ, but what
difference should that make? Hasn't God called the strong to bear up the
weak??? I'm not saying that you need to yoke yourselves up to some dead
or dying assembly, but that shouldn't keep us from assembling with them on
occasion. Who knows what kind of anointing that you might impart to
them?
Paul, who never complained that he wasn't being fed in church, didn't let
a synagogue stop him from spreading the good news! If he got kicked out,
he just went to another denomination/synagogue for the next weekly
service, and if that didn't work, he just started up a new assembly! (The
latter being a tougher proposition, Kemosahbee.)
We, on the other hand, love to shake the dust from off our feet, but
paradoxically settle down in the same city we were supposed to leave! Like
Lot, who settled down in the wicked city of Sodom, without a clue about
whether or not God was going to do anything further with the city (bad or
good).
So, wherever you find yourself, know this, God is either going to save the
city because of you, or he is going to save you from the city (as long as
someone with the faith of Abraham is willing to intercede on your
behalf!).
I'm being a bit dramatic of course, just to make a point, but I really
don't think that we have the option of sitting on the sidelines waiting
for some miraculous "NT-like-Church" to appear on the scene.
It is so easy to not go anywhere on Sundays. It is tough to rouse
yourself and go to a place that doesn't offer you much of anything.
There are at least two benefits for going to the synagogue-of-choice in
your city.
1) Discipline. Just getting your lazy butt up will do wonders for you!
2) You'll find out that there are others out there that are hungry for
God's Word, and you should be able to help with that need. They cannot
help the fact that their "leaders" have not fulfilled the basic commission
to study to show themselves approved of God. These people are, in many
cases, unaware that there is more to Christianity than what they have
experienced... you could change that!
Our motto should be the same as an old cowboy's classified ad: Have
horse, will travel!
Blessings,
William
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| Re: In Our Image [message #5403 is a reply to message #5402] |
Sun, 01 March 2009 03:34 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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William wrote:
" 1) Discipline. Just getting your lazy butt up will do wonders for you!"
I understand where you're coming from with this statement, and won't take offence with it. I personally, get 'my lazy butt' up between 4:30 and 5:00 a.m. and do my daily reading of The Word and time with The Lord, then walk for 3 miles. Every other day I go to the fitness center and work out with weights for muscle tone and conditioning.
So I agree, discipline is good, both spiritual, mental, and physical.
I can't and won't argue with your statements about 'church'...maybe I just need to give it another go...
Thanks for taking the time to share on this snowy Alabama night.
I do want to believe also,
james
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: In Our Image [message #5405 is a reply to message #5404] |
Sun, 01 March 2009 03:59 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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I didn't, and understand what you were saying. I was just saying lazy is not one of the things I'm believing The Lord on.
God bless,
( Get those snow tires or chains on tonight, or you won't make it to Sunday School in the morning...<grin>
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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