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| Topic: Teachings by Clara Grace |
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| | Topic: A. A. Allen |
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| A. A. Allen [message #10377] |
Sun, 24 November 2013 20:21 |
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 GWB
Messages: 708
Registered: March 2008
Location: Louisville, Ky area |
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Taken from Post #9842 by Gary
Vision: The destruction of America [message #9842] Sat, 28 September 2013 18:46 Go to next message
Vision of the Destruction of America
A. A. Allen
The following vision was received by Evangelist A.A. Allen on July 4, 1954 (one of the men mightily used in the great Healing Revival of 1947-1955):
As I stood atop the Empire State Building, I could see the Statue of Liberty, illuminating the gateway to the new world. Here, spread before me like an animated map, is an area sixty or eighty miles in diameter. I was amazed that the Spirit of the Lord should so move me, there atop the Empire State Building. Why should I feel such a surge of His Spirit and power there?
Suddenly I heard the voice of the Lord. It was as clear and as distinct as a voice could be. It seemed to come from the very midst of the giant telescope. But when I looked at the telescope, I knew it hadn't come from there, but directly from heaven. The voice said, "The eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show himself strong in behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward Him. Herein you have done foolishly. Therefore, from henceforth, you shall have wars."
Immediately when I heard the voice of God, I knew this was a quotation of Scripture. But never before had a thing come to me so forcibly by the power of the Spirit. The ticking of the telescope stopped. The man before me had used up his dimes worth. As he stepped away I knew that I was next. As I stepped to the telescope and dropped in my dime, immediately the ticking started again. This ticking was an automatic clock which would allow me to use the telescope for a definitely limited time only.
As I swung the telescope to the North, suddenly the Spirit of God came upon me in a way that I had never thought of before. Seemingly in the spirit I was entirely caught away. I knew that the telescope itself had nothing to do with the distance which I was suddenly enabled to see, for I seemed to see things far beyond the range of the telescope, even on a bright clear day. It was simply that God had chosen this time to reveal these things to me, for as I looked through the telescope, it was not Manhattan Island that I saw, but a far larger view.
That morning, much of the view was impaired by fog. But suddenly as the Spirit of the Lord came upon me the fog seemed to clear, until it seemed that I could see for thousands of miles.
But that which I was looking upon was not Manhattan island, it was all of the North American Continent spread out before me as a map is spread upon a table, it was not the East River and the Hudson River that I saw on either side, but the Atlantic and the Pacific Oceans. And instead of the Statue of Liberty standing there in the bay on her small island I saw her standing far out in the Gulf of Mexico. She was between me and the United States.
I suddenly realized that the telescope had nothing to do with what I was seeing, but that it was a vision coming directly from God. And to prove this to myself I took my eyes away from the telescope, so that I was no longer looking through the lens, but the same scene remained before me.
There, clear and distinct, lay all the North American Continent, with all it's great cities. To the North lay the Great Lakes. Far to the Northeast was New York City. I could see Seattle and Portland far to the Northwest. Down the West Coast, there were San Francisco and Los Angeles. Closer in the foreground, there lay New Orleans, at the center of the Gulf Coast area. I could see the great towering ranges of the Rocky Mountains, and trace with my eye the Continental Divide. All this and more, I could see spread out before me as a great map upon a table.
And as l looked, suddenly from the sky I saw a giant hand reach down. That gigantic hand was reaching out toward the Statue of Liberty. In a moment her gleaming torch was torn from her hand, and in it instead was placed a cup. And I saw protruding from that great cup, a giant sword, shining as if a great light had been turned upon its glistening edge. Never before had I seen such a sharp, glistening, dangerous sword. it seemed to threaten all the world. As the great cup was placed in the hand of the Statue of Liberty, I heard these words, "Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Drink ye and be drunken, spue and fall, and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send." As I heard these words, I recognized them as a quotation from Jeremiah 25:7.
I was amazed to hear the Statue of Liberty speak out in reply, "I WILL NOT DRINK!" Then as the voice of the thunder, I heard again the voice of the Lord, saying, "Thus saith the Lord of Hosts, YE SHALL CERTAINLY DRINK." (Jer.25:28) Then suddenly the giant hand forced the cup to the lips of the Statue of Liberty, and she became powerless to defend herself. The mighty hand of God forced her to drink every drop from the cup. As she drank the bitter dregs, these were the words that I heard, "Should you be utterly unpunished? You shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the Lord of Hosts." (Jer.25:29) When the cup was withdrawn from the lips of the Statue of Liberty, I noticed the sword was missing from the cup, which could mean but one thing. THE CONTENTS OF THE CUP HAD BEEN COMPLETELY CONSUMED! I knew that the sword merely typified war, death, and destruction, which is no doubt on the way.
Then as one drunken on too much wine, I saw the Statue of Liberty become unsteady on her feet and begin to stagger, and to lose her balance. I saw her splashing in the Gulf, trying to regain her balance. I saw her stagger again and again, and fall to her knees. As I saw her desperate attempts to regain her balance, and rise to her feet again, my heart was moved as never before with compassion for her struggles. But as she staggered there in the gulf, once again I heard these words, "Ye shall drink and be drunken, and spue, and fall, and rise no more because of the sword that I shall send among you."
As I watched, I wondered if the Statue of Liberty would ever be able to regain her feet—if she would ever stand again. And as I watched, it seemed that with all her power she struggled to rise, and finally staggered to her feet again, and stood there swaying drunkenly. I felt sure that at any moment she would fall again—possibly never to rise. I seemed overwhelmed with a desire to reach out my hand to keep her head above water, for I knew that if she ever fell again she would drown there in the Gulf.
"Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night, nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness, nor for the destruction that wastes at noonday." Psalms 91:5,6.
Then as I watched, another amazing thing was taking place. Far to the Northwest, just out over Alaska, a huge, black cloud was arising. As it rose, it was as black as night. It seemed to be in the shape of a man's head. As it continued to arise, I observed two light spots in the black cloud. It rose further, and a gaping hole appeared. I could see that the black cloud was taking the shape of a skull, for now the huge, white, gaping mouth was plainly visible. Finally the head was complete. Then the shoulders began to appear and on either side long, black arms.
It seemed that what I saw was the entire North American Continent, spread out like a map upon a table with this terrible skeleton-formed cloud arising from behind the table. It rose steadily until the form was visible down to the waist. At the waist, the skeleton seemed to bend towards the United States, stretching forth a hand toward the East and one toward the West - one toward New York and one toward Seattle. As the awful form stretched forward, I could see that the entire attention seemed to be focused upon the U.S., overlooking Canada at least for the time being. As I saw the horrible black cloud in the form of a skeleton bending towards America, bending from the waist over, reaching down toward Chicago and out towards both coasts, I knew it's one interest was to destroy the multitudes.
As I watched in horror, the great black cloud stopped just above the great lakes region, and turned it's face towards New York City. Then out of the horrible, great gaping mouth began to appear wisps of white vapor which looked like smoke, as a cigarette smoker would blow puffs of smoke from his mouth. These whitish vapors were being blown toward New York City. The smoke began to spread, until it had covered all the eastern part of the United States.
Then the skeleton turned to the West, and out of the horrible mouth and nostrils came another great puff of white smoke. This time it was blown in the direction of the West Coast. In a few moments time, the entire West Coast and L.A. area was covered with it's vapors.
Then towards the center came a third great puff. As I watched, St. Louis and Kansas City were enveloped in its white vapors. Then on it came towards New Orleans. Then on they swept until they reached the Statue of Liberty where she stood staggering drunkenly in The blue waters of The Gulf. As the white vapors began to spread around The head of the statue, she took in but one gasping breath, and then began to cough as though to rid her lungs of the horrible vapors she had inhaled. One could readily discern by the coughing that those white vapors had seared her lungs.
What were these white vapors? Could they signify bacteriological warfare or nerve gas that could destroy multitudes of people in a few moments time?
Then I heard the voice of God, as He spoke again: "Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof,. And it shall be, as with the people, so with The priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the buyer, so with the seller, as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for The Lord has spoken this word. The earth mourneth and fadeth away, The world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish . The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore has the curse devoured the earth and they that dwell therein are desolate; therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned and few men are left." (Isa.24:1-6)
As I watched, the coughing grew worse. It sounded like a person was about to cough out his lungs. The Statue was moaning and groaning. She was in mortal agony. The pain must have been terrific, as again and again, she tried to clear her lungs of those horrible white vapors. I watched her there in the Gulf, as she staggered, clutching her lungs and her breast with her hands. Then she fell to her knees. In a moment, she gave one final cough, and made a last desperate effort to rise from her knees, and then fell face forward into the waters of The Gulf and lay still as death. Tears ran down my face as I realized that she was dead! Only The lapping of The waves, splashing over her body, which was partly under the water, and partly out of water, broke the silence.
"A fire devoureth before them, and behind them a flame burneth; the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them, a desolate wilderness." Joel 2:3
Suddenly the silence was shattered by the screaming of sirens. The sirens seemed to scream, "RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!" Never before had I heard such shrill, screaming sirens. They seemed to be everywhere—to the North, South, the East and the West. There seemed to be multitudes of sirens. And as I looked, I saw people everywhere running. But it seemed none of them ran more than a few paces, and then they fell. And even as I had seen the Statue struggling to regain her poise and balance, and finally falling to die on her face, I now saw millions of people falling in the streets, on the sidewalks, struggling. I heard their screams for mercy and help. I heard their horrible coughing as though their lungs had been seared with fire. I heard the moanings and groanings of the doomed and the dying. As I watched, a few finally reached shelters, and above the moaning and groanings, I heard these words: "A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth for the Lord has a controversy with the nations. He will plead with all flesh; He will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the Lord. Behold evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of The earth. And The slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even onto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented neither gathered nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground." (Jer. 25:31-33)
Then suddenly I saw from the Atlantic and from the Pacific, and out of the Gulf, rocket- like objects that seemed to come up like fish leaping out of the water . High into the air they leaped, each headed in a different direction, but every one towards The U.S. On The ground, the sirens screamed louder. And up from the ground I saw similar rockets begin to ascend. To me, these appeared to be interceptor rockets although they arose from different points all over the U.S. However, none of them seemed to be successful in intercepting the rockets that had risen from the ocean on every side. These rockets finally reached their maximum height, slowly turned over, and fell back toward the earth in defeat. Then suddenly, the rockets which had leaped out of the ocean like fish all exploded at once. The explosion was ear-splitting. The next thing which I saw was a huge ball of fire. The only thing I have ever seen which resembled the thing I saw in my vision was the picture of the explosion of the H-bomb in the South Pacific. In my vision, it was so real I seemed to feel a searing heat from it.
As the vision spread before my eyes, and I viewed the widespread desolation brought about by the terrific explosions, I could not help thinking, While the defenders of our nation have quibbled over what means of defense to use, and neglected the only true means of defense, faith and dependence upon the true and living God, the thing which she greatly feared has come unto her! How true it has proven that "Except the Lord keep The city, The watchman watches but in vain."
Then as the noise of the battle subsided, to my ears came this quotation from Joel, the second chapter,
"Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run..." (Joel 2:4).
[Updated on: Sun, 24 November 2013 20:22]
Shalom,
GWB
"Be still and know that I am God."
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| | Topic: Believe the Sign |
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| | Topic: Sister Clara Grace |
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| Sister Clara Grace [message #10375] |
Sun, 24 November 2013 17:09 |
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GWB
Messages: 708
Registered: March 2008
Location: Louisville, Ky area |
Senior Member |
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Sister Clara Grace:
BILLYE BRIM QUOTE: [Billye was Kenneth Hagin’s book editor for 10 years.]
http://www.billyebrim.org/
“Sister Clara Grace saw a vision of the last days. She saw the church prone on the ground, weak. And then she saw, like a veil. And beyond the veil she could look through; It was on the other side of the veil, you know. She saw this weakened church here. And she saw heads from the other side of the veil pressing through. They were pressing through to resurrection. The Lord said they were ‘Just men made perfect who were pressing through to resurrection.’ Then she saw a group here on the ground, God’s mature saints. And they were passing behind the veil, and they didn’t die to go there. And they were getting the glory. She saw the glory from behind the veil. She saw the 2 groups from beyond the veil and this side of the veil amalgamate and make one. And they moved in a cloud of glory over that church. That church, it strengthen the feeble knees and the arms among them. And it stood up and stretched up itself and rose up to the glorious church.”
{End Billye Brim quote}
Shalom,
GWB
"Be still and know that I am God."
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| | Topic: White Horse Ministries |
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| | Topic: Tommy Hicks: The Sleeping Giant |
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| Tommy Hicks: The Sleeping Giant [message #10373] |
Sun, 24 November 2013 16:54 |
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GWB
Messages: 708
Registered: March 2008
Location: Louisville, Ky area |
Senior Member |
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As you read this prophecy, you see people being translated all over the world. HEF said this was going to happen in the end times.
I know of young people who are doing this as we speak!!! They are not doing the greater works miracles, but I believe they are coming soon. Their first priority is love, love, and more love.
We are living in exciting times! 
VISION OF CHRIST AND HIS BODY SERVICE IN THE END TIMES
Tommy Hicks, 1961
My message began July 25 at 2.30 at night, in Winnipeg, Canada. I slept very hard going to bed, when the revelation that God has given me, appeared before me in a vision. This happened three times, with the same compliance detail every time. I was excited and deeply moved by this revelation that completely changed my outlook on the body of Christ and to serve in the last days.
The most wonderful event that ever took place in the Church of Jesus Christ, are still before us. A difficult task is to help men and women in this to realize and understand the importance of the issues that God is trying to communicate to his people in these last days.
When the vision appeared before me (while I was sleeping), I found myself at a great height. I do not know where I was. But when I looked down at the ground, suddenly the whole world appeared before my eyes - I saw every nation, every language I've heard. From the east and west, north and south - I could identify every country and many cities in which I was previously. I was very afraid and trembled all the while standing and watching as the big picture.
At a time when the world appeared before me, I saw lightning and heard the crack of thunder. When the lightning went through the whole earth, my eyes were turned down and looked to the north. Suddenly I saw what looked like a big giant - it was a very strange sight: his feet seemed to go north and head south, his hands were stretched from sea to sea. I could not even understand the end, whether it was a huge mountain, or a recumbent giant. After careful lucked is, however, saw this giant. He struggled to survive. His body was covered with tumours from head to foot and only sometimes able to move. When it did, thousands of disgustingly-looking little creatures seemed run of him, and when it pacified, returned home.
Suddenly the giant raised his hand to the sky - first one then the other. When it did, creating thousands seemed to flee from him in the side of darkness and night.
The giant slowly began to rise, and when he did, his head and hands were in the clouds. Once created, his feet seemed to be cleaned of debris and dirt that was on him; begun to raise their hands to heaven - as if they praised the Lord. Hands were raised in the clouds.
Suddenly, every cloud has a silver. It was the greatest silver I have ever seen. When I looked at this phenomenon, I felt his greatness and I could not understand what it all means. I was very moved at that view, I began to cry out to the Lord: "O Lord, what does it all mean?" I knew that I was in the spiritual realm and I can feel the presence of the Lord - even though physically I slept.
While staying at this great height looked at the people moving on the ground. A man was in Africa, and for the moment has been moved in the Spirit of God to Russia, China or America or to other places - people moved around the world. Also passed through the fire blight and famine. But nothing could stop them - even if the fire of persecution.
Then came armed with swords and guns, and they - like Jesus - they passed through the crowd and no one could find them. They walked on your behalf. Wherever pulled his hands, the sick were healed, blind eyes were opened. Did not practice long prayers.
the truth - I have not seen any church or denomination, but the people who marched in the name of the Lord of hosts. Hallelujah! Later many times I analysed this vision in my mind and I noticed one more
When they marched forward, whatever they were doing was a service for Christ in this final time. These people served by crowds throughout the world. Tens of thousands, even millions of people came to the Lord Jesus Christ, when they stood and preached the message of the Kingdom to come in the last hour. It was wonderful. God will do in these last days, such things as the world has ever seen.
These people were full of life. I saw them as they walked across the earth. Degrees meant nothing here. When one appeared to fall, another came and raised him. There was a big "I" and little "you", but it was reduced every mountain and every valley raised. One thing seemed to be common - divine love that flowed from these people when they walked together, worked and lived together. This was the greatest true, that I could learn. Jesus Christ was the theme of their lives.
As I watched from the sky, sometimes like great drops of liquid light fell upon the great congregation. Then such a meeting raised their hands and praised God for hours and even days when the Spirit of God descended on them. God said: "I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh" and exactly what he did. There was no end of His miracles, don by every man and woman, with strength and knowledge of God.
When these people came to earth a great persecution struck the tip of everyone. Suddenly a big bang, thunder was heard around the world. And I heard a voice saying: "This is my people, my beloved Bride." When that voice sounded, I looked at the ground watching the lake and mountains. The graves were opened and people from all over the world, the saints of all nations seemed to emerge. When I rose from the grave, they began to descend from all directions, forming together as a giant body. I came hard to grasp the fact that the dead arise from their graves (at first those who have died in Christ) - it was so wonderful and so hard to understand that no such a thing could ever dream or think.
Suddenly, the clouds began to fall drops of warm, radiant rain on the mighty giant. Very slowly it began to melt and sink into the ground. When the melt, the whole shape vanished, glancing across the surface of the earth. Began to fall a great rain, which caused the flood on the earth. When a giant melted down, suddenly appeared, millions of people, resulting in the world, they raised their hands and praise the Lord.
At this point, a great roar was heard from the heavens. Directed his gaze toward the sky and saw a figure in a blindingly bright white - the most wonderful fabric I've ever seen. I have not seen the face of this form, but I knew that it was the Lord Jesus Christ. He stretched out his hand over the people and nations of the world, for all men and women. When I pointed at them with his hand as though fluid flowed light, ran down to the people and the powerful anointing of God Come on them. These people began to move forward in the name of the Lord.
I do not know how long they looked. It seemed to me that it lasts for days, weeks and months. I saw Christ's pulling your hand.
But it became a tragedy. Many people did not accept God's anointing and calling. I know I've seen people who knew with certainty that received God's call. But when the Lord stretched out his hand, bowed their heads and began to retreat. They looked as if they walked into the darkness. The darkness seemed to surround them everywhere ...
However, in humans, whom he anointed - hundreds of thousands of people around the world: in Africa, Asia, Russia, China, America - the anointing of God rested when they went forward in the name of the Lord. Among them were plumbers and cleaners, rich and poor. I've seen people associated paralysis and disease, blindness and deafness. When the Lord reached out and gave them their anointing, they may be healed and moved forward. Was a great miracle when people pulled his hand as you did and the same fire was in their hands. When I pulled out my hand, saying, "according to my word, or healed."
All these people devoted themselves to serving the end-time. I did not realize fully what was the service. I looked at the Lord and asked what it all means. And he replied: "This is what I will do in the last days. Restore and mend what has been destroyed by locusts. Thanks to my people in the last days will go forward. As a powerful army will fill the earth. "
When this body began to form and shape, again took the form of a great giant. But this time it was different. Clad in the finest white, his coat was without stain or blemish. People of all ages gathering together to form this body. Slowly it formed and grew up to the sky, and then came down from heaven the Lord Jesus, and became the Head. I heard the thunder and the following words: "This is my beloved bride, I had been waiting. Arrived, tried in the fire. She is the one that I loved from the beginning of time. "
My eyes turned suddenly to the north and saw the destruction, men and women crying in fear and crumbling buildings. Then again I heard a voice: "Now, my wrath will be poured out upon the face of the earth." God's anger began to spill all over the world. I remember this view as if I saw him just now. Shivered and trembled, seeing the city and entire nations mired in the destruction. I could hear crying and screaming of people who went into the caves, but these did not give them shelter or escape. Jumped into the water, but not drowned. There was nothing that could destroy them. They wanted to receive their own lives, but they could not ...
Then again, I turned my gaze to the body dressed in stunning white outfit. Slowly it began to rise from the earth. When I followed, I woke up.
I saw the end-time ministry, the last hour. 27. July in the morning - the same revelation, the same vision came again.
Christian Media, Cieszyn
[Updated on: Mon, 25 November 2013 02:51]
Shalom,
GWB
"Be still and know that I am God."
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| | Forum: Church Government |
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| Topic: The Concept of Leadership |
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| The Concept of Leadership [message #3485] |
Thu, 25 September 2008 17:05 |
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william
Messages: 1454
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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Recycled from an earlier note...
The article deals with the mistaken idea that the norm for leadership within the Christian Church is a plurality of eldership as opposed to the Biblical presentation which advocates one person as the ultimate leader of an assembly of believers.
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We found ourselves, during our wanderings, in a church that believed that the concept of one "head" pastor was not biblical. They believed in a multiple elder type of leadership and i was prompted to do a study--so here it is:
I. God's design in the beginning
A. Adam, Eve and the divine order
In the beginning God... with these words we see that it doesn't matter who has been delegated with authority, God is the one ultimately in charge, whether we are talking about Israel and her kings, or the Church and its shepherds.
Adam, in Gen. 2-3, was given the responsibility to lead and teach those who had been placed under his charge, and he was given a helper that would assist him in this mission. I believe that this is the established order that God intended throughout history. God-Man(one leader)-Woman(helper)-Children(our charge... the flock!)
As the family structure grew this basic pattern never changed, the head of the household remained the leader.
B. Noah leads the way
Noah was obviously the leader of his household and was able to lead and protect those under his charge. Gen 6-7
Like Adam, Noah wasn't perfect in his responsibilities (Gen 9)yet God doesn't stray from His original design of headship.
C. Abraham, Father of a multitude
The life of Abraham continues to reflect God's original design of headship. He becomes the "father" of the nation of Israel. We also enter into the blessings of Abraham through faith. Gal.3:7
Like those before, Abraham wasn't perfect in his leadership, yet God never invalidates the pattern that He established from the beginning.
D. Jacob and Esau
With Jacob and Esau, God introduces a slight variation on the concept of headship. Headship will now be enlarged to include more than the immediate family. This was hinted at in Gen 9:25-27 with reference to Noah's sons.
Jacob receives the blessing from Isaac that said..."Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord [ruler] over thy brethren..." Gen 27:29.
God continues to show through the pages of Scripture His design with regards to headship.
E. Israel becomes a nation
Jacob/Israel begat twelve children that were destined to become the twelve tribes of Israel
Gen 49:8 shows that Judah ultimately would have the leadership mantle.
The headship pattern was up until this point mostly limited to the family structure, but as the nation grew it became apparent that there would be a need to expand (not change) the leadership structure.
II. God's design for the nation of Israel
A. Moses, chosen by God to lead the nation of Israel
Moses became the central leader of the young nation of Israel. Moses exemplifies a leader that welded much power (some estimates say he ruled over 3 million!) yet he was known as the meekest man on earth at that time! (Num.12:3) How's that for a godly example to follow! Each family had its leaders, each tribe had its leaders but Moses was the central leader. With such a large nation to lead it was obvious that he couldn't lead effectively without help so he appointed "helpers" to judge the nation. Ex 18:17-26
B. Joshua, leader by example Josh.24:15
When it was time for Moses to move on, God instructed Moses to pass the mantle of authority to Joshua, who had been preparing for leadership by being a servant of Moses. Num. 27:18 Joshua became the recognized leader of the nation even though the nation still maintained the same pattern that God had established and expanded through the leadership of Moses. Josh. 24:1f
C. No central leader equals chaos
When Joshua passes from the scene the elders that were alive during his leadership continue leading the people until they also pass from the scene. A leadership vacuum results and Israel forsakes the Lord and falls under the Lord's judgment.
D. Judges
At this time, God begins to raise up judges to rule His nation, and a clear pattern emerges; Israel flourishes during the leadership of the judge but when the judge dies, they backslide once again. Jud. 2:16-19
III. God's design during the time of the kings
It has been stated that God never intended for the nation of Israel to have a king, I agree with this, but it is obvious that He did intend for the people to have a leader that would lead them in the ways of righteousness. Why else did He raise up Moses, Joshua, and the judges? I contend that He has shown clearly from the beginning the pattern of leadership.
Certainly He chose David's leadership to be a type of His own leadership over the nation of Israel. One leader, with many helpers, was the pattern throughout the time of the kings.
A. Saul
Saul was chosen as the King over the nation and while his reign left much to be desired, God didn't change the structure that He had ordained from the beginning. Even after it became obvious that Saul had abdicated his responsibility in leading the nation in a godly manner, he remained the recognized central leader. David would not usurp the office of the king even though Saul's leadership was detrimental to the nation.
B. David, kingdom patterned after the heavenly
Throughout the Scriptures, David and his leadership has been likened to that of Christ's reign over the earth. He certainly wasn't a perfect leader, but his heart was toward the Lord and the resulting prosperity that sprang from this godly reign should teach us the potential of true God-ordained leadership.
C. Solomon, leadership gone awry
Solomon reaped the benefits of his father's reign, but because of a misuse of the power of leadership he was doomed to have part of the kingdom torn from his leadership and given to another. From this point until the Babylonian captivity, the nations of Israel and Judah were on a fast track to destruction. Here we begin to see the fruits of "bad" leadership. However, even during this period when it seemed that a new pattern of leadership was in order, God did not change the design that He had instituted at the beginning.
IV. God's design during the time of Babylonian captivity
After many years of backsliding and repeated warnings of judgment, both Israel and Judah were put under the rule of the Babylonians. Their temple was destroyed and they were led away from the land that the Lord had given to them. They became a nation without direction and were it not for the few godly prophets that prophesied during this time, they would have been completely without direction.
It seems that it was during this time period that the Synagogues came into existence. The Synagogue was their only link to their glorious heritage. It offered them a chance to maintain their religion while under the rule of the Babylonians and teach the next generation the tenets of their faith. Interestingly enough, they chose to maintain the same structure of leadership that had prevailed throughout their history... a single leader for each Synagogue. Acts 18:8,17
V. God's design during the time of Ezra-Nehemiah
After the Babylonian captivity, God once again raises up an individual to lead his people back into the land of their inheritance, first Ezra, and then Nehemiah. Apparently God intended that the leadership structure of one central leader would continue to prevail, albeit without the baggage of a king!
VI. God's design during the Roman period
During this period of Roman rule the Synagogues remained the central pillar of Jewish life, even though the temple had been rebuilt and the order of worship had been restored. Leadership was never by committee although a godly leader will always listen to council from other godly sources. It was at this time that Jesus came on the scene and established His Church
VII. God's design for the church age
We know that there were radical changes that took place when Jesus established his Church, however, the model that had served from the beginning was nowhere rejected. It would seem that if Jesus had wanted to change the headship pattern that had prevailed from the beginning there would have been a statement to announce this major departure from the norm. Instead we see that even among the twelve there clearly was a delineation between some of the apostles. Peter, James and John emerge as the apostles who were chosen to have additional leadership responsibilities. Mk 9 & 14. Among this inner circle Jesus singled out Peter with the charge to feed His flock in Jn 21:15f. Peter was also given the "keys" to open the door to the Jews on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2) as well as the Gentiles in Acts 10. We see Peter leading in the selection of a replacement for Judas in Acts 1:15.
In discussing leadership with the Apostles in MK 10, Jesus made it clear that those who would exercise leadership in His Church, would be those who had the capacity for servanthood. It would not be those who had the most strength and power, or those who battled their way to the top!
Peter was recognized as leader of the twelve even though he became subordinate to the leadership in the Jerusalem assembly (which was led by another single individual).
The Jerusalem assembly was led not by an apostle but by James the brother of Jesus. By reading Acts 15 you will get a good picture of how a godly leader goes about his duties. Paul recognizes James' leadership and he is mentioned separately from the rest of the elders in Jerusalem in Acts 21:18. Early Church history confirms the fact that James was the leading elder in the Jerusalem assembly.
Even a cursory glance at early Church history show that all of the major assemblies had a plurality of elders but that there was only one leading elder (called a pastor or bishop) who was responsible for the direction and oversight of the assembly.
The Gentile assemblies also followed the same pattern of leadership that had been established from the beginning. Paul had establish many churches during his missionary journeys and continued to appoint leaders in every church. Timothy (who wasn't an apostle) is an example of one who was given authority in the Ephesian Church. He was given instructions on dealing with problems in the Church and was expected to lead the Church despite the fact that he was apparently very young. Paul also gives detailed instructions on leading the Church to Titus, leader at Crete. Here again, an example of one central leader given the responsibility over a young Church.
Even in the last book of the Scriptures, the book of Revelation, we see the divine order that was established in Genesis still prevails. Rev. 2 & 3 contains seven letters written to seven churches from the Lord Jesus. Each letter is written to a single individual who has the responsibility for leading the church under his care. The recipient of each letter is referred to as the "angel" of the church which is a descriptive metaphor for a single individual within the Church and not, as some have mistakenly said, literal "angels." This can be easily ascertained by looking at the language used by the Lord when He speaks to these "angels."
Revelation 2:1 1. To the angel of the church of Ephesus write;...vs 4 Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. 5 Remember therefore from which thou hast fallen, and repent, and do the first works;...
Revelation 2:12 12. And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write;... vs 16 Repent; or else I will come to thee quickly,...
Revelation 3:1 1. And to the angel of the church in Sardis write;... I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Revelation 3:14 14. And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write;...I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit thee out of my mouth.
Literal angels don't need to be reminded to return to their first love, or to repent. They don't need to be told that they have a name that they live but are really dead. Literal angels aren't lukewarm!
The angel metaphor is used because these singular persons are in reality messengers from God. They are to be leading the church by finding out God's direction, His purposes, and then relaying the message to the assembly that God has given them charge over.
There are other places in Scripture that the same Greek word "angel" is translated as "messenger." Here is an example:
Luke 9:52 52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
VIII. Summary
It seems clear that God has from the beginning ordained that there be those who have the gift and responsibility of leadership, both within the confines of the family, as well as the broader context of the Church.
Having said all of this, I realize that not all "senior pastors" are operating the way God has ordained. Some are obviously in leadership when they are not even called. We often have to search for churches (even including Home Churches) where divine order prevails, yet this lack does not negate the divine pattern that God has established.
God's gifts to the church are the 5-fold ministry: apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. (Eph.4:11) Not all have these leadership gifts in the church, although all have been given gifts and are expected to function in their place in the Body of Christ. Ephesians 4:12-14 tell us the purpose of 5-fold ministry in the church:
1. To equip the saints for the work of ministry
2. To edify the Body of Christ
3. To bring everyone into the unity of the faith and knowledge of the Son of God
4. To help perfect the Body of Christ, to reach the fullness of Christ
5. To protect and to feed the flock, so that they are "no longer children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting." (Eph. 4:14) So that the flock will mature and "grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ".
And finally, vs. 16 of Ephesians 4 points out that it's the "WHOLE body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which EVERY part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love."
We have been members of churches which practiced body ministry, along with the God-ordained "senior pastor" and elders. In these churches, members were taught the Word of God by teachers who were gifted in this area, and they were encouraged to use their gifts to fulfill their place in the Body. (Peter 5:2-4) We don't believe that those called by God to be pastors and teachers must necessarily attend Bible schools or seminaries, but we do believe that they should have a solid foundation in the Word of God so that they don't lead their flock into error. Obviously, all Christians should obtain this solid foundation in the Word of God, but those who are in leadership will receive the stricter judgment, and it's extremely important that they not lead their flock astray by teaching error. (James 3:1 "My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.")
There will always be those who, like Korah, don't like the idea that God chooses certain of His servants to lead His flock, but the overwhelming evidence shows that He indeed does just that.
To conclude, since the NT states that there will be people who have a problem with the "one" leader concept like the OT figure of Korah (Jude 11) I would like to quote the passage where Korah and his followers rebel against the divine order that God has established through Moses. Please note that these folk (like their modern day counterparts) were also concerned with the "senior pastor" who seemed to be "taking too much" upon himself:
Numbers 16:1 1. Now Korah, the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On, the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took [men]: 2 And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown: 3 And they assembled themselves against Moses and against Aaron, and said to them, [Ye take] too much upon you, seeing all the congregation [are] holy, every one of them, and the LORD [is] among them: why then do ye raise yourselves above the congregation of the LORD? {Ye take...: Heb. It is much for you} 4 And when Moses heard [it], he fell upon his face: 5 And he spoke to Korah and to all his company, saying, Even to morrow the LORD will show who [are] his, and [who is] holy; and will cause [him] to come near to him: even [him] whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near to him. 6 This do; Take you censers, Korah, and all his company; 7 And put fire in them, and put incense in them before the LORD to morrow: and it shall be [that] the man whom the LORD doth choose, he [shall be] holy: [ye take] too much upon you, ye sons of Levi. 8 And Moses said to Korah, Hear, I pray you, ye sons of Levi: 9 [Seemeth it but] a small thing to you, that the God of Israel hath separated you from the congregation of Israel, to bring you near to himself to do the service of the tabernacle of the LORD, and to stand before the congregation to minister to them? 10 And he hath brought thee near [to him], and all thy brethren the sons of Levi with thee: and seek ye the priesthood also? 11 For which cause [both] thou and all thy company [are] assembled against the LORD: and what [is] Aaron, that ye murmur against him?
...Then comes the judgment:
Numbers 16:28 28 And Moses said, by this ye shall know that the LORD hath sent me to do all these works; for [I have] not [done them] of my own mind. 29 If these men shall die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; [then] the LORD hath not sent me. {the common...: Heb. as every man dieth} 30 But if the LORD shall make a new thing, and the earth shall open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that [appertain] to them, and they go down alive into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD. {make...: Heb. create a creature} 31 And it came to pass, as he had finished speaking all these words, that the ground opened up that [was] under them: 32 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that [appertained] to Korah, and all [their] goods. 33 They, and all that [appertained] to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.
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[Updated on: Mon, 04 July 2011 02:19]
I want to believe!
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| | Topic: Scriptural References to Biblical Terms |
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| Scriptural References to Biblical Terms [message #3413] |
Sun, 21 September 2008 03:20 |
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william
Messages: 1454
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
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We've been discussing issues relating to the function of the Church... here is a compliled list of Scripture references that relate to that discussion. I'm locking (no replies) this note since it is provided only as a quick reference to the terms we have been using. Hope you find it helpful.
Scriptural References to Biblical Terms (New Testament only)
G652
ἀπόστολος
apostolos
Total KJV Occurrences: 81
apostles, 53
Mat_10:2, Mar_6:30, Luk_6:13, Luk_9:10, Luk_11:49, Luk_17:5, Luk_22:14, Luk_24:10, Act_1:2, Act_1:26, Act_2:37, Act_2:43, Act_4:33, Act_4:36, Act_5:12, Act_5:18, Act_5:29, Act_5:34, Act_5:40, Act_6:6, Act_8:1, Act_8:14, Act_9:27, Act_11:1, Act_14:4, Act_14:14, Act_15:2, Act_15:4, Act_15:6, Act_15:22-23 (2), Act_16:4, Rom_16:7, 1Co_4:9, 1Co_9:5, 1Co_12:28-29 (2), 1Co_15:7, 1Co_15:9, 2Co_11:5, 2Co_11:13, 2Co_12:11, Gal_1:17, Eph_2:19-20 (2), Eph_3:5, Eph_4:11, 1Th_2:6, 2Pe_3:2, Jud_1:17, Rev_2:2, Rev_18:20, Rev_21:14
apostle, 19
Rom_1:1, Rom_11:13, 1Co_9:1-2 (3), 1Co_15:9, 2Co_1:1, 2Co_12:12, Col_1:1 (3), 1Ti_1:1, 1Ti_2:7, 2Ti_1:1, 2Ti_1:11, Heb_3:1 (2), 1Pe_1:1, 2Pe_1:1
apostles’, 5
Act_2:42, Act_4:35, Act_4:37, Act_5:2, Act_8:18
sent, 2
Joh_13:16 (2)
messenger, 1
Phi_2:25
messengers, 1
2Co_8:23
G4396
προφήτης
prophētēs
Total KJV Occurrences: 149
prophets, 81
Mat_2:23, Mat_5:12, Mat_5:17, Mat_11:12-13 (2), Mat_13:17, Mat_16:14, Mat_22:40, Mat_23:29-31 (3), Mat_23:34, Mat_23:37, Mat_26:56, Mar_1:2, Mar_6:15, Mar_8:28, Luk_1:70, Luk_6:23, Luk_9:8, Luk_9:19, Luk_10:24, Luk_11:47, Luk_11:49-50 (2), Luk_13:28, Luk_13:34, Luk_16:16, Luk_16:29, Luk_18:31 (2), Luk_24:25, Luk_24:27, Joh_6:44-45 (3), Joh_8:52-53 (2), Act_3:18, Act_3:21, Act_3:24-25 (2), Act_7:42, Act_7:52, Act_10:43, Act_11:27, Act_13:1, Act_13:15, Act_13:27, Act_13:40, Act_15:15, Act_15:32, Act_24:14, Act_26:22, Act_26:27, Act_28:23, Rom_1:2, Rom_3:21, Rom_11:3, 1Co_14:28-29 (3), 1Co_14:32 (2), Eph_2:20, Eph_3:5, Eph_4:11, 1Th_2:15, Heb_1:1, Heb_11:32, Jam_5:10, 1Pe_1:10, 2Pe_3:2, Rev_10:7, Rev_11:10, Rev_11:18, Rev_16:6, Rev_18:20, Rev_18:24, Rev_22:6, Rev_22:9
prophet, 67
Mat_1:22, Mat_2:5, Mat_2:15, Mat_2:17, Mat_3:3, Mat_4:14, Mat_8:17, Mat_10:41 (2), Mat_11:9 (2), Mat_12:17, Mat_12:39, Mat_13:35, Mat_13:57, Mat_14:5, Mat_21:4 (2), Mat_21:11, Mat_21:26, Mat_21:46, Mat_24:15, Mat_27:9, Mat_27:35, Mar_6:4, Mar_6:15, Mar_11:32, Mar_13:14, Luk_1:76, Luk_3:4, Luk_4:17, Luk_4:24, Luk_4:27, Luk_7:16, Luk_7:26 (2), Luk_7:28, Luk_7:39, Luk_11:29, Luk_13:33, Luk_20:6, Luk_24:19, Joh_1:21, Joh_1:23, Joh_1:25, Joh_4:19, Joh_4:44, Joh_6:14, Joh_7:40, Joh_7:52, Joh_9:17, Joh_12:38, Act_2:16, Act_2:30, Act_3:22-23 (2), Act_7:37, Act_7:48, Act_8:28, Act_8:30, Act_8:34, Act_13:20, Act_21:10, Act_28:25, 1Co_14:37, Tit_1:12, 2Pe_2:16
prophet’s, 1
Mat_10:41
G2099
εὐαγγελιστής
euaggelistēs
Total KJV Occurrences: 3
evangelist, 2
Act_21:8, 2Ti_4:5
evangelists, 1
Eph_4:11
G4166 (the noun)
ποιμήν
poimēn
Total KJV Occurrences: 18
shepherd, 13
Mat_9:36, Mat_25:32, Mat_26:31, Mar_6:34, Mar_14:27, Joh_10:2, Joh_10:11-12 (3), Joh_10:14, Joh_10:16, Heb_13:20, 1Pe_2:25
shepherds, 4
Luk_2:8, Luk_2:15, Luk_2:18, Luk_2:20
pastors, 1
Eph_4:11
G4165 (the verb)
ποιμαίνω
poimainō
Total KJV Occurrences: 12
feed, 4
Joh_21:16, Act_20:28, 1Pe_5:2, Rev_7:17
rule, 4
Mat_2:6, Rev_2:27, Rev_12:5, Rev_19:15
feeding, 2
Luk_17:7, Jud_1:12
cattle, 1
Luk_17:7
feedeth, 1
1Co_9:7
G1320
διδάσκαλος
didaskalos
Total KJV Occurrences: 59
master, 47
Mat_8:19, Mat_9:11, Mat_10:24-25 (3), Mat_12:38, Mat_17:24, Mat_22:16 (2), Mat_22:24, Mat_22:36, Mat_26:18, Mar_4:38, Mar_5:35, Mar_9:17, Mar_9:38, Mar_10:17, Mar_10:20, Mar_10:35, Mar_12:14, Mar_12:19, Mar_12:32, Mar_13:1, Mar_14:14, Luk_3:12, Luk_7:40 (3), Luk_8:49, Luk_9:38, Luk_10:25, Luk_11:45, Luk_12:13, Luk_18:18, Luk_19:39, Luk_20:21, Luk_20:28, Luk_20:39, Luk_21:7, Luk_22:11, Joh_1:38, Joh_3:10, Joh_8:4, Joh_11:28, Joh_13:13-14 (2), Joh_20:16
teachers, 6
Act_13:1, 1Co_12:28-29 (2), Eph_4:11, 2Ti_4:3, Heb_5:12
teacher, 4
Joh_3:2, Rom_2:20, 1Ti_2:7, 2Ti_1:11
doctors, 1
Luk_2:46
masters, 1
Jam_3:1
G1248
διακονία
diakonia
Total KJV Occurrences: 34
ministry, 16
Act_1:17, Act_1:25, Act_6:4, Act_12:25, Act_20:24, Act_21:19, Rom_12:7, 1Co_16:15, 2Co_4:1, 2Co_5:18, 2Co_6:3, Eph_4:12, Col_4:17, 1Ti_1:12, 2Ti_4:5, 2Ti_4:11
ministration, 6
Act_6:1, 2Co_3:7-9 (4), 2Co_9:13
ministering, 3
Rom_12:7, 2Co_8:4, 2Co_9:1
service, 3
Rom_15:31, 2Co_11:8, Rev_2:19
administration, 1
2Co_9:12
administrations, 1
1Co_12:5
minister, 1
Heb_1:14
office, 1
Rom_11:13
relief, 1
Act_11:29
serving, 1
Luk_10:40
G1249
διάκονος
diakonos
Total KJV Occurrences: 30
minister, 14
Mat_20:26, Mar_10:43, Rom_13:4 (2), Rom_15:8, Gal_2:17, Eph_3:7, Eph_6:21, Col_1:7, Col_1:23, Col_1:25, Col_4:7, 1Th_3:2, 1Ti_4:6
ministers, 6
1Co_3:5, 2Co_3:6, 2Co_6:4, 2Co_11:15 (2), 2Co_11:23
servant, 4
Mat_23:11, Mar_9:35, Joh_12:26, Rom_16:1
deacons, 3
Phi_1:1 (2), 1Ti_3:8, 1Ti_3:12
servants, 3
Mat_22:12-13 (2), Joh_2:5, Joh_2:9
G1985
ἐπίσκοπος
episkopos
Total KJV Occurrences: 5
bishop, 3
1Ti_3:2, Tit_1:7, 1Pe_2:25
bishops, 1
Phi_1:1
overseers, 1
Act_20:28
I want to believe!
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| | Topic: Some definitions |
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| Some definitions [message #3348] |
Sat, 13 September 2008 04:37 |
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william
Messages: 1454
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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Recycled from Bible Issues (Just a starter message!)
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This was something I wrote in response to a question about different ministries within the Church. I believe all believers have gifts (1Cor 12) but in this discussion I'm limiting myself to those gifts that are closely related to Church Government.
First some terms:
Disciples: We are all called to be disciples, which means a "learner". (Acts 11:26). All Christians should be disciples!
Minister: One who serves! All of us are called to minister/serve.
Apostle: My understanding is that an "apostle" is literally "one who is sent" and specifically has come to designate one who is chosen and sent by God to accomplish a particular task. It is one of the "offices" of Church listed in Eph. 4:11f which to me indicates that as long as the Church is in existence the office is valid. Do I know any apostles personally? No. *grin*
Elder: There are two types, those who are the spiritually mature "pillars" of the church and those who are among the leadership of the church. The classic OT example is the 70 elders that Moses chose to help lead the children of Israel. These would be the elders with the anointing to rule, but there were many more elders in the nation of Israel, in fact these 70 were chosen from a much larger group of elders.
In the church there are usually many who are considered elders because of their spiritual maturity but only a few of these would be placed in overseer type positions. This latter group would be considered the (grk)"episcopate" or overseeing elders, in the NT.
Deacon: Again, there are two types of (grk)"diaconate" mentioned in the NT. The word means "those who serve." In our time the word is used mostly as a designation for those who serve the physical needs of the church (table-servers--taken from the example given in Acts 6:2.) But in the NT the word is also used as a designation for those who serve the spiritual food to the church, i.e. Word ministers. (see Acts 6:4 where the same term is used to describe the Word-servers!)
Shepherd: Could describe those with the pastoral gift (one who feeds the flock) as well as those who have been given the oversight (episcopate.) The term is loaded with imagery and meaning from both the OT and new.
Overseer: Sometimes referred to as a "bishop," and falls into the category of the "episcopate." 1 Pet2:25 Refers to God as the "Shepherd" and "Overseer" of our souls. One translation uses the term "guardian" which accurately describe the "episcopate."
In summery, there are basically two groups in the NT Church that God uses to protect and mature His saints. The diaconate (specifically the "Word" servers) and the episcopate.
The diaconate can be summed up quite nicely by the list given in Eph 4:11f, apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. Each of these gifts are given by *God* to the individual and no one else has a say as to who gets what gift. These gifts are independent of men and are between the individual and God alone.
The episcopate gifts on the other hand are given only in the context of a group or groups of people and only have relevance with respect to that group or groups. The episcopate combines the ideas of overseer,(episkopos Heb.12:15--looking diligently) rulership,(heigeomai Acts15:22 Heb.13:7,17,24) and those who "stand before"(proisteimi Rm 12:8, 1Thess.5:12 1Tim.3:4; 5:12.)
Obviously, those with the diaconate gifts (Eph4:11f Pastors, Teachers, Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists) need a group of people to be able to discharge their gifts effectively, but their gift is *independent* of these groups. They are given their gifts apart from the hand of man and must answer to God for the use or misuse of their gifts. For example a person with pastoral gifts might travel to another assembly and if given an opportunity to speak his message will be pastoral in nature (not that he would become their pastor, but the gift would be in evidence by the "feeding the flock" nature of his message.) In other words, his gift travels with him! The same thing could be said for the prophet, teacher, etc..
The episcopate (ruling) gifts on the other hand only arise when there is a need for them and only exist as long as the need exists. A person might be called into the position of elder and begin to function in that capacity, but if he travels to another city his "episcopate" gift doesn't travel with him. He would exercise no authority in any other assembly. His gift would not have meaning apart from his "sphere of authority."
Sometimes the two different giftings overlap and this makes it hard to distinguish between the diaconate and the episcopate. Usually a person with the pastoral (one who feeds the sheep) calling will also be given episcopate gifts to oversee and rule in the local assembly. Paul was both apostle (diaconate) and elder/overseer (episcopate) to the gentile assemblies.
I hope I haven't bored you with all of this, it has always been a favorite subject of mine!
William
I want to believe!
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