Home » Discussion Area » Introductions & General » Sarah Palin Sister In Christ
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #3129 is a reply to message #3128] |
Fri, 05 September 2008 12:04   |
 james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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...And raising her hands in worship...double WOW !
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #3131 is a reply to message #3125] |
Fri, 05 September 2008 20:04 |
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NBF56
Messages: 51
Registered: February 2008
Location: Ohio |
Member |
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Interesting what she spoke of concerning Alaska, and the role they will play in energy production and supply. She knew there was "something going on" in Alaska, but she didn't know the part she would play, by the Grace and Appointment of God. My first thought when I heard her acceptance speeh at the RNC was that God had placed her there, and this was before I knew she was a Christian. to hear that she is a Spirit-filled Christian, baptized and professing Christ openly is a great encouragement to me, and to many others. God is raising up His people to do great things, and to have great influence.
I heard Laura Ingraham today speaking about the example she has set in keeping their Downs-Syndrome baby, and in the support of the entire family for their daughter, in spite of the out-of-wedlock pregnancy, and how many women and girls may have been affected by this example, and how many lives this might have saved, babies that will not be aborted, that even if she doesn't become Vice-President, her example has made a huge difference in the lives of women and families all over this nation, and possibly around the world.
I am following the campaign even more closely, now that I know this. Thanks for the link!
NBF
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #3136 is a reply to message #3133] |
Fri, 05 September 2008 22:11 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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I was just writting out some sympathy cards to send to the tobacco companies, man I really feel their pain...
I think the new administration( whomever God selects ), should send tax rebates out to the tobacco companies and consider removing the environmental restrainments that have been placed upon them, due to the public whining about their health. Why should people's health get in the way of profits?
question: seeings how I'm of this opinion, does this make me a democrat or a republician, or a card carrying communist?
Can I be a christian and not care? Can I trust Jesus to know what He's doing?
Could Sarah Palin be the Deborah of the 21 st. century? I know of people who said Hilary was...
If I owned stock in a tobacco company, would I still feel this way? Would I have the courage to value people's lives over my own desire for increased profits as a shareholder?
Why would someone raise questions when they already know the answers?
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #3146 is a reply to message #3140] |
Sat, 06 September 2008 14:42 |
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NBF56
Messages: 51
Registered: February 2008
Location: Ohio |
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| jewelsboye wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 03:01 |
Hombre and anyone else who wants to chime in...
I want to say first off that I am very much a Republican and very much conservative. I have a question though because I have heard this said before. When it comes to abortion, or homosexuality, etc., do you believe that you can be a Christian and a liberal Democrat by simply saying that you are not going to judge people and that everyone can choose what they want? That is the only reason I can think of that Obama and many other Democrats who are so called "religious" or "Christian" can justify being for those things. One would think that their personal beliefs would be against such things which the Bible says are an abomination. If you really wanted to win people over, why wouldn't you say that you didn't agree with it and thought it was wrong but that you are not here to judge, etc...? Does that excuse even work or have any merit? I guess I don't understand how someone can claim to be a Christian and still be for things that are clearly against your religion. Do people actually fall for it when they say they are Christian?
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I too am Republican and Conservative. Your question is a good one. What I believe is that in this day and age, where even the Church is taught to "go along to get along", those who take a stand will pay a price for that stand, and will come under fire even from professing Christians. The principle of "Is this the hill I want to die on?" must be balanced with "he who confesses Me before men, I will confess before My Father." I always think of the proverb, "A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in frames of silver". In all things, we must be led by the Spirit, but we cannot use that as an excuse to say "I didn't feel the spirit leading me to say anything".
With regard to Sarah Palin, at some point, her faith will be made an issue, because the Liberal Democrat Left cannot stand anyone who professes Christ, and who professes biblical morality and standards. I don't believe it is "optional" to take a stand on abortion, but Sarah has lived out her stand, in not even considering aborting their downs-syndrome baby, and in making it plain to their daughter, Bristol, that abortion is not an option, even when a baby is conceived in sin. It comes down to this: Sarah and Todd Palin have not just talked the talk, they have walked the walk where this issue is concerned, and that's what is driving the Leftists crazy. Sarah Palin has lived out what the Feminists "claimed" they wanted for every woman, but she did it walking out her faith, and not conforming to their political views, and they cannot accept that. Sarah, didn't talk and talk about her stand, she just did it. That is the Christian way. Don't talk about it, blowing a trumpet and calling attention to yourself for being so "good" and "pure" and "righteous" in your choices, just do it, and be ready to give answer to those who ask. Live your life in such a way that what people see is Christ in you. Pharisees talk about what they are doing, calling attention to how wonderful they are. True Christians just do it.
[Updated on: Sat, 06 September 2008 14:44]
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #3149 is a reply to message #3140] |
Sat, 06 September 2008 15:04 |
grandom
Messages: 404
Registered: October 2007 |
Senior Member |
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I thought this devotional from Spurgeon`s site was appropriate for this discussion.
"In the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye
shine as lights in the world."
-- Philippians 2:15
We use lights to make manifest. A Christian man should so shine in his
life, that a person could not live with him a week without knowing the
gospel. His conversation should be such that all who are about him
should clearly perceive whose he is, and whom he serves; and should see
the image of Jesus reflected in his daily actions. Lights are intended
for guidance. We are to help those around us who are in the dark. We
are to hold forth to them the Word of life. We are to point sinners to
the Saviour, and the weary to a divine resting-place. Men sometimes
read their Bibles, and fail to understand them; we should be ready,
like Philip, to instruct the inquirer in the meaning of God's Word, the
way of salvation, and the life of godliness. Lights are also used for
warning. On our rocks and shoals a light-house is sure to be erected.
Christian men should know that there are many false lights shown
everywhere in the world, and therefore the right light is needed. The
wreckers of Satan are always abroad, tempting the ungodly to sin under
the name of pleasure; they hoist the wrong light, be it ours to put up
the true light upon every dangerous rock, to point out every sin, and
tell what it leads to, that so we may be clear of the blood of all men,
shining as lights in the world. Lights also have a very cheering
influence, and so have Christians. A Christian ought to be a comforter,
with kind words on his lips, and sympathy in his heart; he should carry
sunshine wherever he goes, and diffuse happiness around him.
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #3151 is a reply to message #3149] |
Sat, 06 September 2008 15:24 |
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NBF56
Messages: 51
Registered: February 2008
Location: Ohio |
Member |
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| grandom wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 11:04 |
I thought this devotional from Spurgeon`s site was appropriate for this discussion.
"In the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye
shine as lights in the world."
-- Philippians 2:15
We use lights to make manifest. A Christian man should so shine in his
life, that a person could not live with him a week without knowing the
gospel. His conversation should be such that all who are about him
should clearly perceive whose he is, and whom he serves; and should see
the image of Jesus reflected in his daily actions. Lights are intended
for guidance. We are to help those around us who are in the dark. We
are to hold forth to them the Word of life. We are to point sinners to
the Saviour, and the weary to a divine resting-place. Men sometimes
read their Bibles, and fail to understand them; we should be ready,
like Philip, to instruct the inquirer in the meaning of God's Word, the
way of salvation, and the life of godliness. Lights are also used for
warning. On our rocks and shoals a light-house is sure to be erected.
Christian men should know that there are many false lights shown
everywhere in the world, and therefore the right light is needed. The
wreckers of Satan are always abroad, tempting the ungodly to sin under
the name of pleasure; they hoist the wrong light, be it ours to put up
the true light upon every dangerous rock, to point out every sin, and
tell what it leads to, that so we may be clear of the blood of all men,
shining as lights in the world. Lights also have a very cheering
influence, and so have Christians. A Christian ought to be a comforter,
with kind words on his lips, and sympathy in his heart; he should carry
sunshine wherever he goes, and diffuse happiness around him.
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Great quote from Spurgeon, the "prince of preachers"!
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #3154 is a reply to message #3146] |
Sat, 06 September 2008 22:58 |
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NBF56
Messages: 51
Registered: February 2008
Location: Ohio |
Member |
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| Hombre wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 11:54 |
| NBF56 wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 09:42 |
...The principle of "Is this the hill I want to die on?" must be balanced with "he who confesses Me before men, I will confess before My Father.
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...you mean balancing what we want for ourselves vs. what God may want from us at any particular moment in time.
The death to self.
I can't say that I have been in a lot of situations where death was an alternative to keeping my peace, but we can remember that God IS sovereign...and that Jesus Himself, though many wanted to shove Him off a cliff at one point, was not pushed, but rather walked right back through the middle of them, unmolested and undetected. If we are IN God, and walk IN him, then His will be done, and fear or selfishness is no longer an obstacle.
..yes, I know..easier said than done, but I think that's the way it works.
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The "hill to die on", was meant figuratively. We all waste our time on things that aren't that important. That's the meaning of the saying, that we should pick and choose which battles we engage in, and which we let go because they are not that important.
Now, before someone goes off accusing me of saying that I don't think we should always witness to folks, I believe there is a time and a place for everything. A wise man once said, "Preach the Gospel. Use words if necessary". Our lives should be such a witness, that we don't have to buttonhole people to tell them of God's Christ, they should be buttonholing us, asking, "What is it about you? Why are you so joyful?"
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #3180 is a reply to message #3140] |
Mon, 08 September 2008 17:24 |
jisamazed
Messages: 170
Registered: January 2008
Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
Senior Member |
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| jewelsboye wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 02:01 |
Hombre and anyone else who wants to chime in...
I want to say first off that I am very much a Republican and very much conservative. I have a question though because I have heard this said before. When it comes to abortion, or homosexuality, etc., do you believe that you can be a Christian and a liberal Democrat by simply saying that you are not going to judge people and that everyone can choose what they want? That is the only reason I can think of that Obama and many other Democrats who are so called "religious" or "Christian" can justify being for those things. One would think that their personal beliefs would be against such things which the Bible says are an abomination. If you really wanted to win people over, why wouldn't you say that you didn't agree with it and thought it was wrong but that you are not here to judge, etc...? Does that excuse even work or have any merit? I guess I don't understand how someone can claim to be a Christian and still be for things that are clearly against your religion. Do people actually fall for it when they say they are Christian?
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What I think is dangerous is the idea that we should vote for someone just because they say they are a Christian, or even because they are a Christian. Martin Luther said, "I had rather a non-Christian ruler who was competent than a Christian ruler who was not." What we need to pray for are Christians who are called to be involved in politics who are competent, have integrity and who don't compromise the ethics of scripture. Difficult? Yes. Impossible? No. The same could apply to an auto mechanic, businessman, doctor or any other type of vocation. If we wear the name of Christ, we want to do the best job possible at work with integrity and wisdom. Daniel had an excellent spirit as he served in Darius' government. We can pray the same for Sarah Palin should she be elected.
I understand why HEF and others taught why Christians should not be involved in government. I don't agree now, but I understand why. Too many Christians in this country have brought a bad name on Christ by claiming, "Vote for me, I'm a Christian!" Then they have gone on to lack integrity or cave into Rebuplican or Democratic interests and end up serving a party more than serving the people or God. Often times it becomes a mindset of, "A vote for a Republican is a vote for God." The Republican have manipulated the church to think this way, and many ungodly people have been voted into office because they slung around the right lingo, making themselves look righteous. Democrats have done the same, but few really believe them. HEF and others saw those problems and thought it best to just avoid politics altogether. I personally think that is too reactionary a position to take. But we need approach politics without aligning ourselves with any political party. George Washington warned against political parties in his farewell address to congress, because he thought that parties would undermine the democratic process. We Christian should not be owned by Republicans, even if we tend to agree with them more than Demos.
I would love to see a Christian officeholder that is independent of parties so that a party platform is not identified with him or her being "Christian".
What think you guys?
Amazed smitten astonished stunned floored blown away astounded shocked flabbergasted surprised wonderfully devastated awed shattered overwhelmed incredulous speechless sense of wonder at the love of God.
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #3183 is a reply to message #3180] |
Mon, 08 September 2008 20:44 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Jiz wrote:
"I understand why HEF and others taught why Christians should not be involved in government. I don't agree now, but I understand why."
"What think you guys?"
Here's what this guy thinks; Amazed, is there anything that you embraced with joy as truth, when you heard it through Horbart Freeman, that you now agree with? Does Matt.13:20-21 make any sense to you in reguards to turning away from that which you once embraced? REALLY, IS THERE?
btw: just wondering...not telling you what to believe or how to live your life...
I know you won't respond to my post, but maybe it'll make you think.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #3192 is a reply to message #3180] |
Tue, 09 September 2008 00:24 |
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william
Messages: 1463
Registered: January 2006 |
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Administrator |
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Jae wrote :I understand why HEF and others taught why Christians should not be involved in government. I don't agree now, but I understand why. Too many Christians in this country have brought a bad name on Christ by claiming, "Vote for me, I'm a Christian!" Then they have gone on to lack integrity or cave into Rebuplican or Democratic interests and end up serving a party more than serving the people or God. Often times it becomes a mindset of, "A vote for a Republican is a vote for God." The Republican have manipulated the church to think this way, and many ungodly people have been voted into office because they slung around the right lingo, making themselves look righteous. Democrats have done the same, but few really believe them. HEF and others saw those problems and thought it best to just avoid politics altogether. I personally think that is too reactionary a position to take. But we need approach politics without aligning ourselves with any political party. George Washington warned against political parties in his farewell address to congress, because he thought that parties would undermine the democratic process. We Christian should not be owned by Republicans, even if we tend to agree with them more than Demos.
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Maybe you meant to end the thought after the first sentence ("I understand why HEF and others taught why Christians should not be involved in government. I don't agree now, but I understand why.") because the rest of your note doesn't jive with what he taught, nor does it explain why he taught what he taught.
You go on and say "HEF and others saw those problems and thought it best to just avoid politics altogether." leaving the impression that the information you stated was what he thought and why he avoided politics. Your powers of divination have led you astray. As Hombre pointed out, HEF gave biblical reasons for the Christian not becoming involved in politics (two diametrically opposing kingdoms with no hope of reconciliation until the stone cut without hands destroys the world's kingdom.).
I really question your obsessive need to continually peck at HEF's theology at the expense of a truthful portrayal of those teachings. There is nothing to be gained by this. Why not just leave HEF out of your perceptions and present what you believe to be the proper stance? You are not helping your cause.
William
I want to believe!
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #3206 is a reply to message #3203] |
Tue, 09 September 2008 16:38 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Hey Grandom,
After reading how de Dutch does it, maybe now I can start getting a higher sucess rate on my prayers.
Let's see now, first I'll just go somewhere that has a big old 'big ben' clock and wait for it to get to be twenty four minutes after eleven o'clock...That'd be 11:24 as in Mark 11:24 and then pray for whatever I want and that's it. Well maybe I'd need to give it a double blind study...How bout if I line up the scripture in Proverbs 2:6 with the clock? At 2:06 I could claim wisdom and understanding and knowledge. This is fantastic, no more pouring over the scriptures and walking things out by faith, holding fast, just find that clock and line up the numbers and YeHaw, another gold nugget( you may request gold dust if you prefer) brought to us by the 'apostolic alliance'.
Is this what they refer to as revelation?
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #3297 is a reply to message #3172] |
Fri, 12 September 2008 04:13 |
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william
Messages: 1463
Registered: January 2006 |
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Administrator |
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| jewelsboye wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 09:42 |
Hombre,
I love reading what you sometimes put in parenthesis down at the bottom of the post. It's like the prize in a cracker jack box almost. You're never sure what you'll get but it usually makes a person smile. 
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I cannot get her to post, but my wife asked me this question:
"If it's a "sin" to wear reading glasses in order to see Hombre's fine print, is it a "sin" to enlarge your text on your screen so you can see it?"
I know most of you don't have a problem with people's choices in how they choose to read, but for those who do... well, as I think about it, you probably aren't even aware that Hombre sometimes does this, so never mind!
Blessings,
William
I want to believe!
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #3320 is a reply to message #3192] |
Fri, 12 September 2008 17:09 |
jisamazed
Messages: 170
Registered: January 2008
Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
Senior Member |
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| moulder wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 19:24 |
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Jae wrote :I understand why HEF and others taught why Christians should not be involved in government. I don't agree now, but I understand why. Too many Christians in this country have brought a bad name on Christ by claiming, "Vote for me, I'm a Christian!" Then they have gone on to lack integrity or cave into Rebuplican or Democratic interests and end up serving a party more than serving the people or God. Often times it becomes a mindset of, "A vote for a Republican is a vote for God." The Republican have manipulated the church to think this way, and many ungodly people have been voted into office because they slung around the right lingo, making themselves look righteous. Democrats have done the same, but few really believe them. HEF and others saw those problems and thought it best to just avoid politics altogether. I personally think that is too reactionary a position to take. But we need approach politics without aligning ourselves with any political party. George Washington warned against political parties in his farewell address to congress, because he thought that parties would undermine the democratic process. We Christian should not be owned by Republicans, even if we tend to agree with them more than Demos.
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Maybe you meant to end the thought after the first sentence ("I understand why HEF and others taught why Christians should not be involved in government. I don't agree now, but I understand why.") because the rest of your note doesn't jive with what he taught, nor does it explain why he taught what he taught.
You go on and say "HEF and others saw those problems and thought it best to just avoid politics altogether." leaving the impression that the information you stated was what he thought and why he avoided politics. Your powers of divination have led you astray. As Hombre pointed out, HEF gave biblical reasons for the Christian not becoming involved in politics (two diametrically opposing kingdoms with no hope of reconciliation until the stone cut without hands destroys the world's kingdom.).
I really question your obsessive need to continually peck at HEF's theology at the expense of a truthful portrayal of those teachings. There is nothing to be gained by this. Why not just leave HEF out of your perceptions and present what you believe to be the proper stance? You are not helping your cause.
William
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No, I understand that HEF taught non-resistance and non-involvement in politics from what he believed to be a Biblical basis. I understand all that and used to teach it myself. You are right, I did not make it clear and cut off my train of thought. I have to hurry to complete these posts during lunch time and went too fast apparently.
However, even though HEF taught the traditional anabaptist view of non-involvement in government, he also expressed a lot of disgust toward those who were trying to make this country Christian through political power (the Moral Majority, etc...). He was concerned that politial power would weaken the spiritual authority of the church, and I agree with him on that matter.
I also agree somewhat with his Anabaptist view of government non-involvement, but I don't see it as a hard and fast rule. I don't believe the Bible teaches it in a legalistic manner. I see room for some Christians to enter government office as a vocation, on a local, state or even federal level. It should be approached as a vocation, not a way to make the nation more Christian.
I apologize for not making my point clear and making it look like HEF only taught that view out of a reaction to the trends of the time. I heard the teaching on non-resistance many times. I understand the basis for it. The point was actually not to oppose HEF's teaching in this case, but to point out where I agree with him on it. Christians need to avoid the temptation to try to gain political power. On that we agree.
Amazed smitten astonished stunned floored blown away astounded shocked flabbergasted surprised wonderfully devastated awed shattered overwhelmed incredulous speechless sense of wonder at the love of God.
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #3596 is a reply to message #3215] |
Mon, 06 October 2008 07:04 |
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NBF56
Messages: 51
Registered: February 2008
Location: Ohio |
Member |
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| james wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 16:13 |
William wrote:
"The key is finding a significant clock like big ben!"
Looking for a big ben clock has me SEARCHING EVERYWHERE...
Remember the song, " What Becomes of the Brokenhearted" ?
" I'll be looking everyday
I know I'm gonna find a way
Nothing's gonna stop me now
I'll find a way somehow
I'll be searching everywhere"
Yes sir! It's a hard road...
Hey! That's sorta like lining up numbers; getting song lyrics to have multiple meanings...
And 'they' said us country boys was a beer or two short of a sixpack...
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I love that song! A couple years ago, I bought the DVD of "Standing in the Shadows of Motown", and Joan Osborne did an incredible rendition of it, live, with the surviving members of the Motown Studio band, the "Funk Brothers". It actually brought tears to my eyes, it was so powerful. I learned to play bass partly from listening to Motown, James Jamerson, and Bob Babbit, the two bass players that played with them (at different times, of course).
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #5925 is a reply to message #3596] |
Fri, 03 July 2009 21:42 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Sarah Palin quits, how shocking is that? What if the Republicians had won the election, would she have quit as Vice President? Hummm, wonder how everyone who is so adamant about Christians being part of the voting system feels about that...
Let's just say for the sake of argument that you voted for McCain/Palin for President/Vice President, following your Republician party convictions; OK, we know God is sovereign and He appoints who He wants in office(right?), He allowed Barack Obama to become President of the US. Question, were you following the will of God by voting for McCain/Palin or were you voting against God's will.
Next question: Will she run for President of the United States in 2012, and is that the reason she resigned as Governor of Alaska?
Does anyone care? Or have the only ones who are into politics moved away...
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #5926 is a reply to message #5925] |
Sat, 04 July 2009 03:49 |
jisamazed
Messages: 170
Registered: January 2008
Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
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James, I voted for McCain/Palin (reluctantly- lesser of two evils). Yes, I do believe that the Lord wants me to exercise my priviledge as a citizen and vote. It is not my job to figure out who the Lord will raise up. My job as a citizen in regards to voting is to vote for the person I think will do the best job. It is a standard biblical doctrine that God's sovereignty does not preclude our responsibility. The Lord is sovereign over who government leaders and representatives will be, but that does not negate our role in the process, just like with any other part of life. It does not mean that we should try to make America into a "Christian" country, which is a misunderstanding, nor does it mean that we should be tied to any political party or single issue. It does mean that we can verbalize our concerns to the rest of society about what is right and wrong and what is biblical. We are to be salt and light.
Amazed smitten astonished stunned floored blown away astounded shocked flabbergasted surprised wonderfully devastated awed shattered overwhelmed incredulous speechless sense of wonder at the love of God.
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #5927 is a reply to message #3192] |
Sat, 04 July 2009 04:09 |
jisamazed
Messages: 170
Registered: January 2008
Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
Senior Member |
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William, I am aware of the reasons why HEF thought that Christians should not vote or be involved in politics. He took the historical Anabaptist stance on the matter. I was not trying to bash him, and was in fact trying to explain that I sympathized with his position even though I did not agree. He quoted John 18 (my kingdom is not of this world) to show that we should not get involved in politics. He also pointed out the fallacies of the Moral Minority, and that is the argument that he made that I was focusing on in that post. I am aware of his more complete teaching on the matter and maybe I should have made it more clear that he was not just reacting against the trends of his day. However, I still believe that he was wrong, and that the scriptures he based that view on do not really teach that we should avoid all politics altogether.
I actually think that he was closer to the truth on the matter than many evangelicals are today. We can't make any country into a "Christian" country. Our authority is not political. We musn't get to immersed in the political process, especially the national government. However, I do believe that God calls some people to serve in a political office as a vocation, just as a plumber or contractor or waiter is called by God to those various vocations. It is usually a temporary calling, but just as important as any other.
In the future I will try to be more complete when taking an opposing stance to that of HEF for the reasons you stated.
Amazed smitten astonished stunned floored blown away astounded shocked flabbergasted surprised wonderfully devastated awed shattered overwhelmed incredulous speechless sense of wonder at the love of God.
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #5928 is a reply to message #5926] |
Sat, 04 July 2009 04:16 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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| jisamazed wrote on Fri, 03 July 2009 22:49 |
It does mean that we can verbalize our concerns to the rest of society about what is right and wrong and what is biblical. We are to be salt and light.
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Thanks for replying Jae, while I don't agree with your view on Christians becoming involved in politics, nor do I believe it to be our responsibility to participate in the affairs of government(you know the argument, which kingdom are we citizens of...no reason to go over that again). But I do agree with you that we are to be voice declaring the principles of God's Word and shining a light on the darkness that envelopes this nation.
It does baffle me at times how two professing Christians can read God's Word; be taught God's Word; have The Holy Spirit to lead and guide them into all truth; and come to almost opposite conclusions as to what God want them to do as to applying those truths into their daily lives.
Examples that I've witnessed lately are; voting, obedience to the sermon on the mount(bearing arms and defending oneself) taking people to court, what constitutes leagalism...and the list goes on and on...I know somebody's missing it somewhere, cause ya can't have it both ways. Anyway, it's too late at night to be hopping on and off soapboxes...err, peach crates. 
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #5929 is a reply to message #5928] |
Sat, 04 July 2009 07:47 |
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william
Messages: 1463
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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| Quote: |
James wrote:
It does baffle me at times how two professing Christians can read God's Word; be taught God's Word; have The Holy Spirit to lead and guide them into all truth; and come to almost opposite conclusions as to what God want them to do as to applying those truths into their daily lives.
Examples that I've witnessed lately are; voting, obedience to the sermon on the mount(bearing arms and defending oneself) taking people to court, what constitutes legalism...and the list goes on and on...I know somebody's missing it somewhere, cause ya can't have it both ways. Anyway, it's too late at night to be hopping on and off soapboxes...err, peach crates. :)
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You just said a mouthful! Most of us can 1) read God's Word, 2) many
are taught God's Word, 3) many have the Holy Spirit to lead and guide,
but 4) applying truth from God's Word to our daily lives? Now that
requires that the first three steps are executed perfectly without
making any fleshly mistakes and then you've got to apply the knowledge
gained from reading and/or teaching to your situation --accurately!
In theory we ought to be able to read the word and come to the right
conclusion assuming that we understand the context (i.e. correct theology!)
In theory if we have the first one down pat, we ought to be able to
teach it accurately.
In theory we don't even need to be able to read or to be taught if the
Holy Spirit is leading and teaching us. (I understand the arguments and
ramifications for not hanging too much on this since the Holy Spirit has
both given us a reliable Word to read, and has set teachers in the
Church, but if necessary He can lead us in a direct manner -1Jn2:27.)
However, as human beings we tend to gravitate toward someone who will
tell us how to apply it accurately without the need for careful
examination. We tend to just take someone's word that a certain action
is the 'Christian' thing to do, especially if we have confidence in the
teacher.
We do this whether we are talking about voting, taking up arms, or
almost anything else we deem as good Christian doctrine. We impose our
understanding on others without the slightest hesitation... after all,
we are always right, right? I am not saying that we should make all
issues a matter of personal preference or put everything into the
subjective realm but at the very least we ought to make sure that what
we hold to be a self-evident truth is really an objective truth
that applies to all situations equally without qualification before we
place the yoke on someone else.
Oh how easy it would be if God had given us the 613 or so commandments
(I read somewhere that this is how many laws the Jews had to cope with!)
and there was no ambiguity in how to apply it to our lives!
Think about this... Abraham had nothing to read and no teacher to teach
him (apparently...) and yet he somehow attained the status: father of
the faithful. (We acquire our faith by 'hearing and hearing by the Word
of God'.) Abraham wasn't encumbered with knowledge that would have
hindered him from obeying God by sacrificing Isaac. On the other hand
Peter had a tough time squaring what he knew with God's command to 'kill
and eat'. His practical application of what he thought he knew, was in
fact a mis-application. How many times have we done the same sort of thing?
Just to keep a balance I need to present the other side... Adam and Eve
heard God say that they were not to eat of a certain tree and then
failed miserably in applying that prohibition to their own lives! Some
things are black and white; the key is knowing when it is black and
white, and when more wisdom and understanding is needed before applying
it universally to everyone else.
To use an extreme example to make a point, Paul says: "Behold, I Paul
say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you
nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he
is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto
you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from
grace." Pretty absolute, right? We can now determine whether or not a
person is saved by asking this question: Are you circumcised?
You know, ("...and we know, and you know that we know, that this is
nonsense!" --to quote from Daniel Hannon's speech--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lW6Y4tBXs) that this isn't a
valid test, but it does highlight what we tend to do when we pick out a
verse that we think is absolute and then make it universally applicable.
My point in all of this is to say that we shouldn't be baffled when two
Christians come to different conclusions about something that is 'plain
as the hair on the back of our hands' <grin>. Who are you to judge the
Patriotic Bible before you've read it? <grin>
btw, I'm not smoking this cigarette... it's for lighting firecrackers!
Have a great 4th of July EVERYBODY!
William
[Updated on: Sat, 04 July 2009 07:53]
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #5932 is a reply to message #5931] |
Sat, 04 July 2009 14:17 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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You know, the first thought I had was, was that a hand rolled cigarette(with homegrown herbs)that you wasn't smoking. Then I thought, no he's a fine Christian brother, I need to give him the benefit of the doubt, it's probably just sleep deprivation...
Don't forget your sunshades today...the red glare of those rockets can be dangerous...not to mention the bombs bursting in air...
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #5951 is a reply to message #5929] |
Sat, 11 July 2009 02:42 |
jisamazed
Messages: 170
Registered: January 2008
Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
Senior Member |
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Well put post, William. We need to see these disagreements in light of growth. We are all growing and learning, and sometimes we stumble along the way and even go backwards a little, and other times we go forward with a lot of momentum. We will grow in the truth and come to a better understanding of these things over time. It is part of becoming more like Christ.
That is why it is good to learn what are the different perspectives from genuine Christians on these various issues. We learn the various positions, and try to evaluate them in light of scripture. Often times a group will emphasize certain scriptures regarding the issue and neglect others or explain them off. Or a group will take some scripture further than they were intended to be taken. Part of our job in rightly dividing the word of truth is to consider the entirety of scriptural teaching on the matter, knowing that there are sometimes paradoxes in the Bible that we need to embrace.
I believe that it was Martin Luther who said, "In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity."
I'm glad for healthy dialogue about these matters.
Amazed smitten astonished stunned floored blown away astounded shocked flabbergasted surprised wonderfully devastated awed shattered overwhelmed incredulous speechless sense of wonder at the love of God.
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #6059 is a reply to message #6056] |
Fri, 28 August 2009 15:00 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Hello Nel,
Welcome and thanks for sharing; I agree that we are in the last days. I don't know if Sarah Palin is the Deborah of today or not, and I have questions about her quiting as governor of Alaska, but she (as well as all leaders) needs our prayers...in such a time as this...
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Sarah Palin Sister In Christ [message #6244 is a reply to message #6059] |
Mon, 16 November 2009 22:28 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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I saw where Sarah Palin is on Oprah today, so I tuned in...Then I remembered my vow unto myself to never watch Oprah, so I cut it off.
I know she's promoting a book she's written and wants to 'put herself out there',
but it seems like a contradiction or compromise of 'Rebuplican values' to go on Oprah Winfrey.
But hey! When The Queen calls...
btw: I think Oprah Winfrey is one of the most dangerous people on earth,
due to her TV show (and other media outlets) ability to influence millions of people with her humanistic religion.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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