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Re: Coronavirus [message #13273 is a reply to message #13270] Sun, 12 April 2020 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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Location: Birmingham, AL
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Speaking of chips, I just got an email from a bank informing me that my debit card is expiring next month and the new one will have the chip technology in it so I can tap to pay ( not sure just what that is yet). But like Ken said, many things now have chips including animals. Not in my plans for me, but I can easily see them putting them in newborns.
I'd also imagine there will come an immune shot in the future for this Covid 19, similar to influenzas shots they insist on every year, even though they admit they are only a small percent effective. I had one in 1975 and haven't had one since, though the annual Medicare physical gives it free( along with a shot for shingles, hepatitis C, pneumonia, and others I can't remember at the moment) the doctor tries to do it ( probably get paid more if he administers them). I did allow for a stress test and heart test along with blood work.


“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
Re: Coronavirus [message #13275 is a reply to message #13273] Sun, 12 April 2020 23:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
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I have heard that if they give a covid 19 vaccination that it will come with some type of authorized paper work showing you have the shot. The person giving the report said that it would be a misdemeanor not to have the paper or card on you at all times.

For the most part there are a lot of people who do not get the flu shot, so I can see them requiring proof of the covid 19 shot. Hopefully it will not come to all of this but taking one day at a time we'll find out in the future what happens.

I have heard some people going on and on how the government is not going to tell them what to do. But they say wear seat belts we wear seat belts, they say get insurance on your vehicles, we get insurance on our vehicles. There's dozens of areas where were told by the government to do something and we do it or face the consequences of the law.

In Him,
Gary
Re: Coronavirus [message #13276 is a reply to message #13275] Mon, 13 April 2020 05:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Quote:
I have heard some people going on and on how the government is not going to tell them what to do. But they say wear seat belts we wear seat belts, they say get insurance on your vehicles, we get insurance on our vehicles. There's dozens of areas where were told by the government to do something and we do it or face the consequences of the law.


Here's the thing to look at: The slippery slope. There are requirements that the government makes that don't really matter one way or the other, then comes the one thing on the slope that does matter. If you're sliding along, not making waves, then you'll not stir up any criticism from anyone. Hey, this is a nice comfortable feeling, the world's patting me on the back for my moderation and I'm feeling good about being a good citizen! ("Hey folks: being a Christian is COOL!")

As time passes the mile markers on the slope don't seem to matter too much and you'll find yourself unable to stop even if you wanted to. This is the reason that I'm staying off of the bandwagon that seems to be bent on demanding that these Christians conform to some press release from a government that, for the most part, cannot make a right decision even if there is no other option available.

Secondly, and every one of us knows this, the very definition of the Church embraces two ideas--the called out ones (from the world) and the gathered together ones (in Jesus' name). We passed the mile marker for that working definition a week or so ago.

Thirdly, why are we worried about catching or spreading a disease that Jesus died for? Sure, we ought to be considerate to our neighbors in the world and not cause them any consternation by keeping our distance, but if the called-out-to-be-gathered-together-ones can be brow-beaten and imprisoned for 'obeying-God-rather-than-men' then I think we are at the bottom of the slope.

Just think about it, the authorities are letting people out of prison so as to not endanger the lives of those convicted of a crime, and then turning around and putting people in prison for exercising their faith???

We need to decide who our enemy is here.

Is it really those pastors and 'knuckle-heads'(I've heard them use that term) that want to continue to meet together and worship God?

Or is it the heads of nations that lie in the hands of the wicked one, the governmental authorities?

Or going one step further, is it the one "god" in the world that hasn't been toppled? (Sports, entertainment, etc., have all been forced into submission.) Is it the medical science deity?

I must seem pretty foolish here talking about something that I myself haven't been doing. I'm only doing half of the Church thing... called out, but not gathered together. Whether that blunts this post you be the judge, but one thing is for sure, I'm not going to be criticizing those who defy the two authorities (gods) that are right now vying with each other for top billing... viz., those that govern the economy vs those MDs that are demanding that they are in charge.

Blessings,
William

[Updated on: Mon, 13 April 2020 05:54]


I want to believe!
Re: Coronavirus [message #13277 is a reply to message #13276] Mon, 13 April 2020 14:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Here is a link to an article that describes the 'slippery slope' from a secular standpoint:

https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Leaders-seize- new-powers-to-fight-coronavirus-15195776.php


I want to believe!
Re: Coronavirus [message #13278 is a reply to message #13276] Mon, 13 April 2020 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana
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Quote:
[b]Thirdly, why are we worried about catching or spreading a disease that Jesus died for?[b/] Sure, we ought to be considerate to our neighbors in the world and not cause them any consternation by keeping our distance, but if the called-out-to-be-gathered-together-ones can be brow-beaten and imprisoned for 'obeying-God-rather-than-men' then I think we are at the bottom of the slope.

Just think about it, the authorities are letting people out of prison so as to not endanger the lives of those convicted of a crime, and then turning around and putting people in prison for exercising their faith???

We need to decide who our enemy is here.

Is it really those pastors and 'knuckle-heads'(I've heard them use that term) that want to continue to meet together and worship God?

Or is it the heads of nations that lie in the hands of the wicked one, the governmental authorities?

Or going one step further, is it the one "god" in the world that hasn't been toppled? (Sports, entertainment, etc., have all been forced into submission.) Is it the medical science deity?

I must seem pretty foolish here talking about something that I myself haven't been doing. I'm only doing half of the Church thing... called out, but not gathered together. Whether that blunts this post you be the judge, but one thing is for sure, I'm not going to be criticizing those who defy the two authorities (gods) that are right now vying with each other for top billing... viz., those that govern the economy vs those MDs that are demanding that they are in charge.

Blessings,
William


I Peter 2:13-17 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme, or to governors, as to those who sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. For this is the Will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men- as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bond servants of God. Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

Someone sent me a text they were stressed out because they could not go to church on Easter and the children would not be able to have their Easter egg hunt. This is the one holiday where everyone buys new clothes and then go through the ritual that was never commanded of us by God. Watching the Sun rise in the eastern sky, preparing to bring in flowers, palm leaves, painting up hundreds of eggs with bunny rabbits so the children would remember what?

Why was this Sunday the one that everyone would defy the authorities, was it because of some tradition that we don't find in scripture? Even the Pope was greatly concerned.

I seen many Super bowl Sundays when churches would shut down as if this was some religious holiday. "Where was Jesus Christ in this situation and why was He not seen as: We need to get together for worship."

The Church world has gotten far away from what God has called men to do in the gospels. In fact if you look at the book of Acts Christianity versus what we see today its become a shell of the real thing. Even now I have two churches I plan on attending one of them when this is over. I am having to deal with mixed emotions on which one to go too. The more that I watch their services via internet, the more I become undecided.

I find I cannot bring myself to just listen to sermons in the system that deny whole sections of the Bible. I'm not saying their not Christians but the way we were taught it has become an obstacle for me. Jesus said; he that loses his life will find it, I see this as losing all our freedoms forsaking the world and following only what Jesus commands in the scriptures.

Its interesting whenever the Lord pours out His Spirit in a real revival that He generally bypasses the church and goes outside of it to bring people to salvation.

I'm like you, I can see those who would say who is the government to tell us when to worship, (even though I'm not participating), and then look at those who are complying to submit believing its only for a short period of time. But with that said I see the broken system trying to make headwinds.

Like you wrote in another article stating where is the "power of God" in the churches? Even though we have the Baptism and piles of theology notes we don't see the greater works ministry. Jesus said; without me you can do nothing? Are we missing something here?

Maybe your right somehow the Medical Science Deity has prevailed over the government and is now wanting Christians to submit. From here on out Medical Science will be dictating what everyone should be doing. Is it more noble that we chose death and all of us rebel against this system? We have been in rebellion since the start of our meetings (against medical science), but I don't know if its gotten much done in the Kingdom.

I'm not refuting anything you have said only thinking out loud. Take for instant the sports, entertainment deities you mentioned who submitted to the Medical Science Deity, well just six months back to have said anything that sports and entertainment does not appear like were picking up our cross and seeking first the kingdom, would of been frowned upon by most in Christianity. We would of been called legalists.

Anyway if it would of been any other Sunday I could understand better but Easter that's the Sunday that everyone shows up religiously and then on Monday its always been business as usual, that's going by the past 40 years.

Since I had my surgery I have had to reevaluate my life, it was something thrust upon me that I never wanted. My God is in control of everything I know He allowed it, how could this happen?, I see Christians different in the church world, I've become more emotional when considering the things of the Lord, (that's not me at all, what happened?), I have to deal with how do I trust God from here, Did I let Him down?, was it some secret sin from my past?, believe me its been one mind battle. The Lord God has comforted me through His Word and I'll get through it. Hopefully I'll be more sensitive to His Will and not mine.

Any rate I have mixed emotions on this whole deal with the church worlds reaction both pro and con, maybe the Lord could be wanting to get all the Christians attention. Its not like we all had our priorities in order before this happened.

Only the Lord God can turn this around where all Christians see that; His Will and His Kingdom as what is really important in this life.

Whatever happens in the world concerning the governments of men I believe the Lord is in control of them. For now we can only take a day at a time and submit to those in authority as the scripture shows us, if our rights are taken away we know it was going to happen sometime. I heard a sermon by David Wilkerson: "It can all change in an hour". I always thought it might not happen in our life time but it may be we will be in the thick of it before this is over. If that's the case this is why we were brought forth in this hour. God gave us His Word and we know the the gates of hell will not prevail against His church. Maybe your right, this is an exciting time to be in and it will only get better.

In Him,
Gary



[Updated on: Mon, 13 April 2020 14:51]

Re: Coronavirus [message #13279 is a reply to message #13277] Mon, 13 April 2020 14:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
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I thought we were told in Romans 13 and I Peter 2 to obey our government leaders and to pray for them I Timothy 2. Weren't we taught to obey unless the rules/laws/mandates contradicted God's instructions for believers?
As for having a comment or opinion about who amongst us gathers together with fellow believers or who doesn't... I can't say anything...I went 20 years doing the stay away because the pastors didn't teach what HEF taught. If my pastor was teaching error or God forbid heresy, I'd be gone in a heart beat. He's not, he teaches Biblical truths and presents the Gospel faithfully. Deeper teachings concerning The Holy Spirit? No, because he hasn't received the baptism (yet)but remember HEF was a teacher in seminary for years teaching solid Biblical truth before he received the baptism of HS.
Each of us must give an account of what we've done with the time and the truths we've been given....thank God for GRACE, cause I could never square my account in righteous works I've done.
Gary mentioned wrestling with self examination after this health issue he's having, you're not alone my brother in Christ, so have I and if God inflicted or allowed upon me what I deserve...well we know where that slope ends. But because of what Jesus did at Calvary I have hope and confidence that my sins are forgiven and I have eternal life. Six words written in the gospels says it all..."it is finished" and "He is risen"


“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
Re: Coronavirus [message #13280 is a reply to message #13279] Mon, 13 April 2020 16:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kenster777  is currently offline Kenster777
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Registered: February 2020
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Since I had my surgery I have had to reevaluate my life, it was something thrust upon me that I never wanted. My God is in control of everything I know He allowed it, how could this happen?, I see Christians different in the church world, I've become more emotional when considering the things of the Lord, (that's not me at all, what happened?), I have to deal with how do I trust God from here, Did I let Him down?, was it some secret sin from my past?, believe me its been one mind battle. The Lord God has comforted me through His Word and I'll get through it. Hopefully I'll be more sensitive to His Will and not mine.

Any rate I have mixed emotions on this whole deal with the church worlds reaction both pro and con, maybe the Lord could be wanting to get all the Christians attention. Its not like we all had our priorities in order before this happened.


I am so glad that God has not with according to our past sins or rewarded us because of our iniquities. Psalms 103:10
But his forgiveness is everlasting II Peter 3:9, and renewed very morning Lamentations 3:22-23.
It brings into remembrance 2 quotes from the word Jeremiah 29:11-13, John 6:68 and there nothing else but to press forward.

If I would look at my past sins I would never believe God could forgive me of them.
I did not murder any Christians like Paul but I did walk in the cesspool that is the world.
God has shown me it was a root of bitterness and self pity that caused me to stumble.
Jesus says that if you do not fill up seven other spirits can overcome you. Matt 12:45

That seems like a long time ago, but God was graceful and merciful to me.
Now is time to press to the high calling that is in Christ Jesus and to get on our crosses and follow him.
This virus maybe a way God is taking away all the distractions that seem to so easily take away from his word and seeking him.
Maybe during this time God will raise up another Hef, Smith Wigglesworth, John Lake, Finney, Bobby Freeman.
I look and gone to a lot of churches in Arizona and all I see is a famine in the Land of hearing his word.
Maybe one of us, if we are willing to take up our Cross and say as Paul what will you have me do.

By grace are we saved , not of works lest any man should boast.


Re: Coronavirus [message #13281 is a reply to message #13279] Mon, 13 April 2020 20:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Gary Quotes:Quote:
I Peter 2:13-17 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme, or to governors, as to those who sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. For this is the Will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men- as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bond servants of God. Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.


James Quotes:Quote:
I thought we were told in Romans 13 and I Peter 2 to obey our government leaders and to pray for them I Timothy 2. Weren't we taught to obey unless the rules/laws/mandates contradicted God's instructions for believers?


Interesting that you both quote submission passages as being applicable to the Church shutdown situation.

I'm I missing something here? God builds the Church, Jesus dies for the Church, and the governing authorities say "stay home" you cannot gather with other believers as the Church, and our response is: "okay, we submit?" Nevermind the going into all the world stuff.

Pretty sure Daniel might give some insight if we busy ourselves with prooftexting:

[Dan 6:4-13 KJV] 4 Then the presidents and princes sought to find occasion against Daniel concerning the kingdom; but they could find none occasion nor fault; forasmuch as he [was] faithful, neither was there any error or fault found in him. 5 Then said these men, We shall not find any occasion against this Daniel, except we find [it] against him concerning the law of his God. 6 Then these presidents and princes assembled together to the king, and said thus unto him, King Darius, live for ever. 7 All the presidents of the kingdom, the governors, and the princes, the counsellors, and the captains, have consulted together to establish a royal statute, and to make a firm decree, that whosoever shall ask a petition of any God or man for thirty days, save of thee, O king, he shall be cast into the den of lions. 8 Now, O king, establish the decree, and sign the writing, that it be not changed, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which altereth not. 9 Wherefore king Darius signed the writing and the decree. 10 Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber toward Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did aforetime. 11 Then these men assembled, and found Daniel praying and making supplication before his God. 12 Then they came near, and spake before the king concerning the king's decree; Hast thou not signed a decree, that every man that shall ask [a petition] of any God or man within thirty days, save of thee, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions? The king answered and said, The thing [is] true, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which altereth not. 13 Then answered they and said before the king, That Daniel, which [is] of the children of the captivity of Judah, regardeth not thee, O king, nor the decree that thou hast signed, but maketh his petition three times a day.

Maybe Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego would like to be in on the discussion too:

[Dan 3:15-20 KJV] 15 Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; [well]: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who [is] that God that shall deliver you out of my hands? 16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we [are] not careful to answer thee in this matter. 17 If it be [so], our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver [us] out of thine hand, O king. 18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up. 19 Then was Nebuchadnezzar full of fury, and the form of his visage was changed against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego: [therefore] he spake, and commanded that they should heat the furnace one seven times more than it was wont to be heated. 20 And he commanded the most mighty men that [were] in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, [and] to cast [them] into the burning fiery furnace.

If that's a little too old testamenty:

[Act 5:27-29 KJV] 27 And when they had brought them, they set [them] before the council: and the high priest asked them, 28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. 29 Then Peter and the [other] apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

But since we are all brothers here and we aren't trying to prooftext this to death why don't we just ask: what exactly does the government have to do before we say: "this is far enough?"

Hey, you can't meet together.

You must stay inside away from others (with a few exceptions--like getting your groceries, etc..)

You can't travel.

And when we find a vaccination you must take it and be able to prove at a moment's notice your paperwork.

You can't work until we say so.

Oh, btw, you can't buy or sell in the open market place unless you prove to us you've gotten your shots.

Are we okay with this as long as they don't try to tattoo/mark our right hands (left-hand tattoos/marks are okay!) or our foreheads?

Where do we draw the line as Christians? the last point?

Blessings,
William



I want to believe!
Re: Coronavirus [message #13282 is a reply to message #13281] Tue, 14 April 2020 00:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana
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Quote:
I'm I missing something here? God builds the Church, Jesus dies for the Church, and the governing authorities say "stay home" you cannot gather with other believers as the Church, and our response is: "okay, we submit?" Never mind the going into all the world stuff.


William the situation is; this is not the first time this has happened in America. That is People being asked to stay at home because of the plague sweeping the country at other times in our history as a nation. It's happened before: Churches were shut down, schools were all closed, the economy came to a halt. After the plague was over and under control, everything went back to normal.

If what your stating is true were all going into some type of socialism that Christians will be persecuted like in China. The government will be in complete control, all the liberals will take everything over, etc..

Sure God gave great favor to Daniel and the three Hebrew children in preserving and delivering them. But we don't see Daniel and the three Hebrew children going back to Jerusalem protesting the Kings that were running the country. In fact even though they were persecuted by people in Babylon they still submitted to the different Kings ruling over them.

I don't see your point using them as an example when we see they submitted to each different King that ruled Babylon.

But since we are all brothers here and we aren't trying to proof text this to death why don't we just ask: what exactly does the government have to do before we say: "this is far enough?"

Hey, you can't meet together.

You must stay inside away from others (with a few exceptions--like getting your groceries, etc..)

You can't travel.


So far this is all we have been asked to do, I don't see it going any further then this.

And when we find a vaccination you must take it and be able to prove at a moment's notice your paperwork.

You can't work until we say so.

Oh, btw, you can't buy or sell in the open market place unless you prove to us you've gotten your shots.

Are we okay with this as long as they don't try to tattoo/mark our right hands (left-hand tattoos/marks are okay!) or our foreheads?

Where do we draw the line as Christians? the last point


This is all speculation and we do not know that it will come to this. There's been a lot of people on the internet worked up over nothing.

Someone today sent me an audio recording all concerned and asked my opinion. In the audio the guy was saying it was because the government was testing out a powerful 5g system that it was causing the virus. You should of heard the tape it was complete nonsense, the guy was quoting scriptures like he was the final authority on the Bible. What he said on the Bible for the most part was correct, then he mentions when the anti-christ comes in power he was working on a money system that Christians could use to buy and sell.

When I looked up information on the guy he was heavy in the occult, telepathy, clairvoyant, etc. An obvious new ager. Here a Christian could not recognize this guy was fake.

Unless the Lord has given direct revelation I don't think we can go by speculation and presume something of this nature, is going to happen on this earth, is all I'm saying here.

In Him,
Gary



Re: Coronavirus [message #13283 is a reply to message #13194] Tue, 14 April 2020 01:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Quote:
Quote:
William:
I'm I missing something here? God builds the Church, Jesus dies for the Church, and the governing authorities say "stay home" you cannot gather with other believers as the Church, and our response is: "okay, we submit?" Never mind the going into all the world stuff.



Gary: William the situation is; this is not the first time this has happened in America. That is People being asked to stay at home because of the plague sweeping the country at other times in our history as a nation. It's happened before: Churches were shut down, schools were all closed, the economy came to a halt. After the plague was over and under control, everything went back to normal.


Okay, it has been done before. How is that an answer? We've done it before so it's okay to do it again?

Quote:
If what your stating is true were all going into some type of socialism that Christians will be persecuted like in China. The government will be in complete control, all the liberals will take everything over, etc..


Whoa! Socialism, liberalism, (communism?), those are words and concepts that have nothing to do with any of my notes.

Let's reset. I've asked a very basic question: How far does our submission to governmental authority go?

My point in asking the question is this: If the government can shut down the Church then what's left? As far as I can tell that is the bottom of the slippery slope.

As to your assertion-- "if what you're stating is true..." I haven't stated anything that is untrue. The government has shut down Church gatherings (other types as well) and some Christians have decided that they will not submit. Those who aren't submitting are being jailed for their non-compliance. I am defending these people. I haven't said anything about the "Bill of Rights" nor in any way appealed to US Law. I'd be saying the same thing if I lived in China, Russia, etc.. If the world can shut down the Church without protest then what need is there to imagine some great end-time battle that will take place between the kingdoms of the world and the Church? (It's already over.)

Quote:
Sure God gave great favor to Daniel and the three Hebrew children in preserving and delivering them. But we don't see Daniel and the three Hebrew children going back to Jerusalem protesting the Kings that were running the country. In fact even though they were persecuted by people in Babylon they still submitted to the different Kings ruling over them.

I don't see your point using them as an example when we see they submitted to each different King that ruled Babylon.


What? The whole point of those passages was to show NON-SUBMISSION to those kings and those laws! They DID NOT submit. God blessed and honored them exceedingly for their NON-COMPLIANCE.

Quote:
This is all speculation and we do not know that it will come to this. There's been a lot of people on the internet worked up over nothing.

Someone today sent me an audio recording all concerned and asked my opinion. In the audio the guy was saying it was because the government was testing out a powerful 5g system that it was causing the virus. You should of heard the tape it was complete nonsense, the guy was quoting scriptures like he was the final authority on the Bible. What he said on the Bible for the most part was correct, then he mentions when the anti-christ comes in power he was working on a money system that Christians could use to buy and sell.

When I looked up information on the guy he was heavy in the occult, telepathy, clairvoyant, etc. An obvious new ager. Here a Christian could not recognize this guy was fake.

Unless the Lord has given direct revelation I don't think we can go by speculation and presume something of this nature, is going to happen on this earth, is all I'm saying here.


I don't know who you are talking about, nor do I know what they are saying. I do know that they don't seem to have anything to do with what I'm saying so please don't yoke me with any of them.

Also, this concept that, well, these Churches ought not be celebrating Easter (Christmas etc.,) so this issue isn't very serious anyway... totally misses the whole point I've been making! The argument, I suppose, goes something like this: "Well, look at this, all of those false churches (Jehovah's witnesses, Mormons, Catholics, and those denominations that don't have correct theology) have been shut down, praise the lord!"

Just because the tares are mixed up with the wheat right now doesn't mean the true Church isn't in peril for submitting itself to the kingdoms of this world (see, it isn't just the good-ole US of A, that's affected by this, it's the whole world). Christian believers everywhere are being systematically shut down.

Quote:
Unless the Lord has given direct revelation I don't think we can go by speculation and presume something of this nature, is going to happen on this earth, is all I'm saying here.


I'm not speculating about anything, it has happened. Whether or not God has given "direct revelation", I can't answer. I can and do say that the world cannot shut down the Church without consequences.

Blessings,
William


I want to believe!
Re: Coronavirus [message #13284 is a reply to message #13283] Tue, 14 April 2020 16:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kenster777  is currently offline Kenster777
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Let's reset. I've asked a very basic question: How far does our submission to governmental authority go?

My point in asking the question is this: If the government can shut down the Church then what's left? As far as I can tell that is the bottom of the slippery slope.

Right now the Christian church has not been shut down, just large gatherings.
The word says where 2 or 3 are gathered in my name I am in the midst. Priscilla and Aquila had a house church I Corinthians 16:19.
A Christian can still worship, Pray, preach the word just not in large gatherings.
Unlike China which does not allow any of that. But they still thrive and are strong.
A Church is not a building, if a pastor feels he needs to give a message he can use zoom and record. The only thing missing maybe the rock bands.
God can still anoint the message.
Eventually the church will be like the books of acts when everyone was scattered but the still broke bread and read the word from their homes.

But also God will raise up evangelist who God will anoint that even authorities cannot refute or stop.
Like Philip or Smith Wigglesworth.

Right now I don't think real church's are shut down there is always a way to preach the word.
Maybe God is helping us to adapt to what is coming before the real trial's come.
Unlike where a Christian can't discipline their child or use secular education because the doctrine of diversity and evolution.

So William when are you going to start a zoom account to preach the word.
Just giving my thoughts.

Blessing from Ken to the scattered Saints.
Re: Coronavirus [message #13287 is a reply to message #13284] Wed, 15 April 2020 02:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Quote:
So William when are you going to start a zoom account to preach the word.
Just giving my thoughts.

Blessing from Ken to the scattered Saints.


Ha! Now that's funny. I'm just a blowhard with a knack for stirring the pot! Anyway, thanks for your moderating note, I'm calm now!

Blessings,
William


I want to believe!
Re: Coronavirus [message #13288 is a reply to message #13284] Thu, 16 April 2020 12:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Kenster777 wrote on Tue, 14 April 2020 16:24


Right now the Christian church has not been shut down, just large gatherings.
The word says where 2 or 3 are gathered in my name I am in the midst. Priscilla and Aquila had a house church I Corinthians 16:19.
A Christian can still worship, Pray, preach the word just not in large gatherings.
Unlike China which does not allow any of that. But they still thrive and are strong.
A Church is not a building, if a pastor feels he needs to give a message he can use zoom and record. The only thing missing maybe the rock bands.
God can still anoint the message.
Eventually the church will be like the books of acts when everyone was scattered but the still broke bread and read the word from their homes.



Very humorous about the rock bands!!!!!

Quote:
Ken Wrote: Let's reset. I've asked a very basic question: How far does our submission to governmental authority go?


I think were to submit till they ask us to sin or deny Christ, if we don't submit it will be forced on us anyway if they decide to do something.

In Him,
Gary



Re: Coronavirus [message #13289 is a reply to message #13288] Thu, 16 April 2020 12:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kenster777  is currently offline Kenster777
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I think submission will be choice like do we discipline our children in love and obey God or follow man's philosophy.
That can be a choice we obey God and go to jail or we raise our children like the world and hope for the best.
God has given us examples like Meshach, Shadrach and Abednego, were tested either bow to the idol or die.
Which will be replicated when the man of sin sets up his idle.
Or Daniel was cast in the den of Lion's for praying.
And of course the disciples were told not to preach in Jesus name or they would face punishment.
I know we have to obey authority in all things.
But I personally would not take any mark or embedded chip.
I don't think they will be able to physically force it on us but we may be given a choice, if you don't take the mark you won't be able to work.

Then it will come down to choice take the mark or trust the Lord to provide our needs.
Just like the Israelite's were tested in the wilderness, our faith will be tested.
That is why we need to be grounded in the word now, so we will be like the wise virgin's.

He will not fail us or forsake us.
Ken
Re: Coronavirus [message #13290 is a reply to message #13289] Thu, 16 April 2020 15:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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Kenster777 wrote on Thu, 16 April 2020 12:55
I think submission will be choice like do we discipline our children in love and obey God or follow man's philosophy.
That can be a choice we obey God and go to jail or we raise our children like the world and hope for the best.
God has given us examples like Meshach, Shadrach and Abednego, were tested either bow to the idol or die.
Which will be replicated when the man of sin sets up his idle.
Or Daniel was cast in the den of Lion's for praying.
And of course the disciples were told not to preach in Jesus name or they would face punishment.
I know we have to obey authority in all things.
But I personally would not take any mark or embedded chip.
I don't think they will be able to physically force it on us but we may be given a choice, if you don't take the mark you won't be able to work.

Then it will come down to choice take the mark or trust the Lord to provide our needs.
Just like the Israelite's were tested in the wilderness, our faith will be tested.
That is why we need to be grounded in the word now, so we will be like the wise virgin's.

He will not fail us or forsake us.
Ken


I think you made a real good point here. The scripture that reads; "they were not to teach or preach in Jesus name or to face punishment".

With that scripture in mind I can see the churches meeting together against the government forbiding them to meet. As Christians we have nothing to fear concerning the virus Jesus is our healer and will protect His people.

Maybe in some strange way the world does not want us to meet because they will see the risen Christ delivering us. To me more Christians are obeying the government now then a lot of people out there. I know people throwing big birthday parties, weddings, etc. on face book crowds included.

If the church is divided on this issue "to meet or not to meet", it brings about a dilemma. We appear to be divided. I was reading were Moses sent the 10 spies into the promise land, only Joshua and Caleb came back with a positive report. I never noticed before but the men that brought back a negative report all died from the plague. Those who chose to follow the Lord was kept by Him.

Before its over we will probably see more confrontation between true believers and the government.

Gary


Re: Coronavirus [message #13292 is a reply to message #13290] Fri, 17 April 2020 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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They are talking like we can get back to normal around May 1st here. My wife may have to go back to full time at her work place, her boss is asking if she can make masks for all the employees, for a temporary basis when they get back.

I finally got to see the n95 masks they were talking about they got a shipment in at her work but all the straps were dry rotted and broke easily, she is able to repair the masks with real elastic or make different ones from scratch. Everyone is pitching in and trying to get more elastic.

We have been praying for the President and those in authority at our prayer meeting from zoom, also for the country at large. Its been one crazy turn of events as I said once before I cannot believe something like this happened in our life time.

Its still very cold up here tonight we have a freeze warning. This is very strange weather for Indiana. Everything is blooming and the trees are starting to leaf out.

I often wonder how the birds survive in these type of conditions, God somehow sustains them, they keep singing aloud no matter what the weather is. I'm not a big bird fan but one day I noticed a group of Blue Jays in the yard. One of them flew down below the window I was at and for the first time I saw the markings on their feathers up close. It was a fantastic design, small rectangles grouped together with geometric lines running around them.

I could see how the Lord designed its wings, God made everything with fantastic beauty. The creation of this earth is so amazing. The Lord is amazing and He holds it all together with His great power. Hallelujah.

In Him,
Gary

Re: Coronavirus [message #13645 is a reply to message #13292] Wed, 23 December 2020 03:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Alright guys, I ain't claiming that this is it, but it is surely looking mighty suspicious...

News from Israel:

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/292039

Here are some potent lines in the article: (please read it for yourself!)

'We won't force vaccine; but here's what we will do'
Health Ministry Director claims vaccines won't be forced, but Dr. Eyal Zimlichman tells Knesset committee 'they'll understand themselves.'

Although Health Ministry Director Hezy Levy yesterday insisted to reporters that "we won't force people to take a vaccine. Israeli law doesn't allow for it," speaking before the Special Knesset Coronavirus Committee chaired by MK Yifat Shasha-Biton, Sheba Medical Center Chief Medical Officer and Chief Innovation Officer Dr. Eyal Zimlichman listed measures that are being planned to "maneuver" the population into vaccinating as a way of regaining freedom of movement.

The issue of how to "motivate" vaccine compliance has generated increasing interest, with commentators such as Mike Cernovich writing: "Government won't force you to take vaccine. Amazon will. Airlines will. Banks will. You won't be able to buy, sell, or trade without the vaccine."

...

"What is possible is to create motivation. Whoever is vaccinated will automatically receive 'green status'. Therefore, you may vaccinate, and receive Green Status to go freely in all the green zones: They'll open for you cultural events, they'll open to you the shopping malls, hotels, and restaurants.

"You may decide you're not vaccinating, and if you do want to enter these areas you'll need to submit to a PCR test, and therefore I believe people will understand by themselves that the vaccine will return them to regular life and they'll vaccinate themselves, without our obligating them.

...

Trust in Jesus... He won't fail us!

Blessings,
William



I want to believe!
Re: Coronavirus [message #13646 is a reply to message #13645] Wed, 23 December 2020 03:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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I don't have any respect for the guy who made the direct connection with the "mark of the beast" above, but I can't discount the connection, either.

Blessings,
William


I want to believe!
Re: Coronavirus [message #13647 is a reply to message #13646] Wed, 23 December 2020 04:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark L  is currently offline Mark L
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You won't be able to buy, sell, or trade without the vaccine."

Very interesting statement!!!

if you do want to enter these areas you'll need to submit to a PCR test,

Well the easy way to do that is just put a mark on everyone's hand. Quick wave over the hand and in you go. Buy and sell!!!

I don't think its the mark of the beast either as I don't think it is time but it sure is heading in that direction.
I'm going to get the vaccine when it comes my way simply because I want to travel. I'll just look to the Lord to protect me. I think the mark of the beast is much deeper and involved than that. Also the mark of the beast has to be something that is so unspeakably evil or brings one into something that evil that God justly condemns someone for eternity. In other words it not just a symbol.


You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/


Re: Coronavirus [message #13648 is a reply to message #13647] Wed, 23 December 2020 05:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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As I understand it the mark is yoked with worship of the image of the beast. The things that are going on today though should make us wary of what is to come. If it does come to a some sort of forcing people to take the vaccine (and that might not be far off) just look at how quick this came to be... if you had said even a year ago that what we've experienced was coming it would have seemed like a fairy tale!

Blessings,
William


I want to believe!
Re: Coronavirus [message #13650 is a reply to message #13648] Wed, 23 December 2020 13:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
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william wrote on Wed, 23 December 2020 05:01
As I understand it the mark is yoked with worship of the image of the beast. The things that are going on today though should make us wary of what is to come. If it does come to a some sort of forcing people to take the vaccine (and that might not be far off) just look at how quick this came to be... if you had said even a year ago that what we've experienced was coming it would have seemed like a fairy tale!

Blessings,
William



I have mixed emotions about this vaccine. I've never got the flu vaccination and never had the flu. I read an article the other day some Pharmacist stated they are not selling any Tamiflu which knocks the flu fairly fast. He called the manufacturer and they said no one is buying this product because they are strangely not getting the flu. Maybe everybody is calling the flu covid?

Concerning the covid vaccine there is plenty of negative articles on the internet. They say it is designed to change your dna and that it was derived from the fetus cells of a white male fetus. Don't know if all this is true but I do not understand why there is this huge push to get vaccinated.

I read that if you get the vaccine you can still get covid 19. What's that about? And when did Bill Gates become a medical doctor?

I'm thinking do I fight it and resist or try to keep peace with the powers that be. There is already a lot of pressure in the government people are saying you don't care about others if you don't get it, your uneducated, your a risk to society. I know I don't want anyone tampering with my dna the way God created it is just fine.

I would think that if they got the vaccine then their protected why all the force to get everybody to join in.

We know that the Anti-Christ will require a mark to buy and sell maybe in some strange way this is the ground work to test the world to see if they will follow what the government wants. We believed all these years that the end was coming but now to see things unfold so quickly makes you wonder is this it?

Gary




Re: Coronavirus [message #13651 is a reply to message #13650] Wed, 23 December 2020 16:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kenster777  is currently offline Kenster777
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Fortunately my wife who works in an elderly care home won't require they take the vaccine at this time. To many side effects like any other medicine that man makes.
This virus seems like it is a test to make people more dependent on the world government for all their needs.
Unemployment, PPP loans, Sba loans, and dependence on stimulus checks.
In the mean time they have changed how we can worship and how many can come together.
For God's people it is time for them to Fast, Pray, and trust him for our needs and not rely on the Government.
And God through his Son will here our cries and reestablish his Church with signs following. Daniel 11:32-35
In Jesus name we Pray.
Sincerely Ken
Re: Coronavirus [message #13652 is a reply to message #13651] Wed, 23 December 2020 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william  is currently offline william
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Wow! You've got that right! (imho!)

Blessings,
William


I want to believe!
Re: Coronavirus [message #13653 is a reply to message #13652] Wed, 23 December 2020 16:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james  is currently offline james
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I remember my thoughts back in early March when I joined Face Book and was reading the conspiracy posts, I put some of my thoughts on here and started this thread. Man! So much has came to pass in the last nine months that we discussed back in April. Now the vaccine is becoming available, and the marching out of political figures to be inoculated publicly in order to convince the general population that it's OK to take and it's safe. How can we know if it's safe without waiting and allowing time to reveal whether or not that's true.
How long before we hear that because the first one released wasn't kept at the subzero temp it didn't work with some folks and the side effects are a results of that error.

I do know it's a very serious virus, I've had at least one client die from Covid 19, a classmate, and several others I personally knew. I've had family members who have tested positive, thankfully they've survived it.

I don't look forward to tax season (just a couple weeks away), the daily encounters with clients and cleaning, wiping surfaces, spraying, washing, ect. gets old, plus I'm concerned the IRS will extend the season til July again this year, it make for long days. But I do believe The Lord will sustain me in the midst of whatever comes.


“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
Re: Coronavirus [message #13654 is a reply to message #13653] Wed, 23 December 2020 18:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kenster777  is currently offline Kenster777
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Hopefully your clients will show you courtesy that if their sick in anyway they will not come in.
But to make sure plead the blood of Jesus over your office and maybe a plastic barrier around your desk.
Psalms 91 says no plague shall come Nye our dwellings.
The world as we know it is changing at light speed.
Darkness is befalling mankind but if we walk in the light he will keep us.
In Jesus Name.
Sincerely Ken
Re: Coronavirus [message #13655 is a reply to message #13653] Thu, 24 December 2020 04:56 Go to previous message
Gary  is currently offline Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana
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james wrote on Wed, 23 December 2020 16:58
I remember my thoughts back in early March when I joined Face Book and was reading the conspiracy posts, I put some of my thoughts on here and started this thread. Man! So much has came to pass in the last nine months that we discussed back in April. Now the vaccine is becoming available, and the marching out of political figures to be inoculated publicly in order to convince the general population that it's OK to take and it's safe. How can we know if it's safe without waiting and allowing time to reveal whether or not that's true.
How long before we hear that because the first one released wasn't kept at the subzero temp it didn't work with some folks and the side effects are a results of that error.

I do know it's a very serious virus, I've had at least one client die from Covid 19, a classmate, and several others I personally knew. I've had family members who have tested positive, thankfully they've survived it.

I don't look forward to tax season (just a couple weeks away), the daily encounters with clients and cleaning, wiping surfaces, spraying, washing, ect. gets old, plus I'm concerned the IRS will extend the season til July again this year, it make for long days. But I do believe The Lord will sustain me in the midst of whatever comes.


This is a very good point!! Mike Pence caught the covid 19 virus a while back and was back to normal in the white house. The other day he's shown on the news taking the vaccine. If he already had the virus why get vaccinated. Now Dr. Fauci is shown getting his shot and telling us how safe it is.

For one thing how do we really know their getting the vaccine and not some placebo and its all a show. There are to many inconsistencies in this whole thing.

If the vaccine is protecting them why are they worried about someone who refuses to take it. The bulk of the people in fear will rush out and get the vaccine as soon as it is available, but then they suddenly get worried about their fellow man who refuses the shot.

I feel like James if its harmless let it ride for 12 months or longer so we all can see the results. It should not be forced on people against their will. That's unreal telling people you cannot buy or sell without your card stating you got the shots. After you get the shot 21 days later you have to get another one.

Who wants to be like a liberal zombie anyway!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crfWULraP68

Gary



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