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| Re: Genetically engineered people [message #8138 is a reply to message #8137] |
Mon, 22 August 2011 23:36   |
 JWBTI
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Mark,
After reading the info, this thought came to mind .
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Romans 1:21-23 (KJV)
Ron
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| Re: Genetically engineered people [message #8143 is a reply to message #8138] |
Fri, 26 August 2011 22:33 |
Mark L
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I'm really surprised there hasn't been more comment on this. I'm going to post my comments as soon as I gather my thoughts on the issue. When I posted the link I was looking at the science more than the spiritual aspect.
[Updated on: Fri, 26 August 2011 22:41]
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| Re: Genetically engineered people [message #8144 is a reply to message #8143] |
Sat, 27 August 2011 00:00 |
james
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Sorry bro, I just couldn't 'get into it', not my area of interest. While science can be fascinating,(just the awesome display of God's creation) I have no interest in hearing or reading 'mans prideful declaration of his own wisdom and self exaltation' nor do I have an inner hunger to 'figure' everything out to my own satisfaction. It makes exercising faith much easier when I can just rest in the knowledge that God did it all and without Him was nothing done...I'll leave DNA study, carbon dating, genetic exploration, big bang theories, space study, and speculation of 'what if's' and the like to others.
This is in no way a judgment against you, feel free to express your thoughts and opinions about the subject, who knows, you might might give an observation that draws others into the thread.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Genetically engineered people [message #8145 is a reply to message #8144] |
Sat, 27 August 2011 00:35 |
Mark L
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Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
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Thanks for commenting James.
It makes exercising faith much easier when I can just rest in the knowledge that God did it all
and who could argue with that. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. When I posted that link I was speaking to something that has been brewing inside me for a long time. I think something is happening in the world and its guys like me I guess that point it out. Anyway I'm posting my thoughts below.
[Updated on: Sat, 27 August 2011 00:47]
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| Re: Genetically engineered people [message #8146 is a reply to message #8145] |
Sat, 27 August 2011 00:36 |
Mark L
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From the article. Do I ever agree with what I read here. Not so much the aspect to the spiritual but the science.
"It appears, at least in my belief system," he continued, "to be the billion-pound elephant standing in the middle of prophecy circles right now that the lion's share of critical Christian thinkers don't seem to be recognizing, or very few of them are waking up to it."
"This is coming whether people want it to or not. It is so close to being unveiled. I'm not talking cosmologically close. I mean it is very close now. It could happen literally at any moment, and I think it carries magnificent prophetic themes around it. We're literally talking about large-scale genetic, neurological re-engineering of humanity. ... Anybody who thinks this is wishful thinking on the part of the transhumanists, just pick up your newspaper, get your newest science magazine and start reading."
Well here are my thoughts. Some of this is stuff I’ve thought about for years but never knew how to express. Or had a context to express it. It may be a somewhat disjointed as I’m just going to throw it all in.
Daniel 2 Nebuchadnezzars dream Vs 43
And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay “they” shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but “they” shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Here is the question bro and Sis. Who is “they” This is said in the context of the latter days of this kingdom. In other words end times. It looks to me like some of the info given to Neb and Daniel here has been edited out of the original text. Obviously at the HS behest by a later anointed editor. Whoever the “they” is they have life and personality and can cohabitate but can’t cleave if you get my drift. In other words they aren’t completely human. So who are they?
The Lord gave me a dream some time ago and I would like to share some of it. I was talking to an ordinary looking girl about 23 yrs old. Long brown hair. She seemed bewildered and confused. She was made up of 2 parts human & something else and didn’t understand why or how. There was an aspect of realism to the dream. I spoke to her right out of my heart and said ”Jesus will help you” At that point she reacted strongly by running across the room and in a superhuman way jumped over a railing to the floor below. Just before she jumped she said clearly “I don’t know what I am and I am not going to change” Then again in the dream I prayed out of my heart and asked the Lord to send angels to help her in her life. In the dream she had 2 natures. One human and one something else.
I think some of the things they talk about in movies like the Matrix and Tron are already happening. Specifically moving human personalities into virtual worlds. I’m not talking about anything occult here. Although they have been doing it into the spiritual realm since the dawn of time. I mean plain old fashioned science. A virtual world is the inner working of a computer. The world inside a computer. A computer game would be one such world. Every time you use a computer you use the virtual world inside it. A computer is not a glorified calculator. It is a completely different species. Electronically speaking of course. Did you know the inner workings of a computer mirror the spiritual realm? Please understand here I’m not saying computers are spiritual and we should avoid them. I’m talking about science.
I’m saying here I believe they are taking the personality inside a human body and moving it out of the body and into the virtual world inside a computer. Into the computer virtual world and into the games virtual world and whatever else is there. A human personality inside the computer By old fashioned science and electronic means. Nothing occult.
Science is going somewhere. It is being guided by the powers that be out of the spiritual realm in the direction they want it to go. Science is not a giant ball of happy/serious people examining studying learning experimenting and going wherever the results lead them. It is being guided out of the spiritual realm in the direction they want it to go. Did you know that scientists regard Einstein as having a brain that is out of the ordinary. Capable of understanding things ordinary people can’t. One of the reasons they think that is because of his special theory of relativity. I am saying that theory was handed to him whole out of the spiritual realm. The point being that science is being guided in the direction they want it to go. Do your own research if you disagree.
I think there is a great breakthrough coming in science. That will revolutionize everything. Again science is being directed in a particular direction.
Much/most cutting edge research done is military based. Driven by military dollars. I think they have now developed or are developing weapons/aircraft/computers that are partly computer/electronic and partly spiritual. Meaning demonic but without the personal aspect to it.
And then there is artificial intelligence that we haven’t spoke to yet. That is cutting edge science. Lots of dollars going there.
So here is another question. Who/What is the beast. It is physical & spiritual has both life and personality and is so closely identified with the antichrist as to be almost one.
The mark of the beast has to be more than an arbitrary line drawn in the sand by God. It has to involve something so unspeakably evil that God cannot righteously justifiably allow someone into his kingdom who partakes of it. I think it will be partly spiritual partly science.
One last thought here. I realize some of this has been rather disjointed but I’m just throwing all my thoughts in.
The cloud I realize it may make a lot of sense from a practical point of view but am I the only one who sees this cloud thing and is filled with foreboding?
[Updated on: Sat, 27 August 2011 00:46]
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| Re: Genetically engineered people [message #8151 is a reply to message #8150] |
Sat, 27 August 2011 01:27 |
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william
Messages: 1463
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Speaking of "they", what about this verse?:
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Re 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.
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I do see some parallels between the next chapter in Daniel (chapter 3) what with the setting up of the image and the command to worship the image as it compares with Revelation 13.
Blessings,
William
[Updated on: Sat, 27 August 2011 01:28]
I want to believe!
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| Re: Genetically engineered people [message #8160 is a reply to message #8152] |
Sun, 28 August 2011 17:45 |
Mark L
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Well speaking of "They" here is another one
Rev. 20/4 and I saw thrones and "they" sat upon them and judgement was given unto them.
I think the "they" there is the o/c's and the judgement refers to the judging of the evil angels/demons for their place in the lake of fire.
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| Re: Genetically engineered people [message #8164 is a reply to message #8160] |
Mon, 29 August 2011 16:56 |
james
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| Hardbones wrote on Sun, 28 August 2011 12:45 |
Well speaking of "They" here is another one
Rev. 20/4 and I saw thrones and "they" sat upon them and judgement was given unto them.
I think the "they" there is the o/c's and the judgement refers to the judging of the evil angels/demons for their place in the lake of fire.
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You got me to thinking Mark, about the thrones mentioned by John in Revelation 20 V 4 and also who the 'THEY ' is.
It doesn't do a lot of good to go to commentaries because the opinions vary based on who's giving their opinion. Some say that the 'they' are the 12 Apostles, and others say that it's the 24 elders, and some say it's the Saints of God (overcomers). I wish John had revealed 'how many' thrones he saw, that would give a good clue. If it's the overcomers, then he must have seen a 'LOT' of thrones (unless there are far fewer overcomers than we think, but He did say in Revelation 3:21 that those who overcame would be granted to sit with Him in His Throne).
I don't think he was refering to the Great White Throne or the Throne Jesus has, or The Throne of GOD. I'm sure Brother Freeman had teachings on this (going by the outline GWB posted it seems to me he thought it was those who had been martyred), but I don't remember this specifically.
As to judging evil angels and demons, I'm sure if that is what overcomers are assigned to do then who am I to question it. But now that I think upon it, the Apostles would be considered 'Overcomers', wouldn't they?
A long ways from the thread topic, Genetically Engineered People, but I'm almost 100% sure those upon the thrones John saw judging, were not genetically engineered people. Although when we are given a 'NEW' body, one could make the argument that is what Jesus will do...re-engineer us. 
[Updated on: Mon, 29 August 2011 17:15]
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Genetically engineered people [message #8165 is a reply to message #8164] |
Mon, 29 August 2011 20:54 |
Mark L
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I don't think the martyrs out of the trib. mentioned in that passage and the "they" are the same group. The bit about judging angels/demons I got out of 1 Cor.6/3 We will judge angels. Looking at the Cor passage again I see it says the saints will judge the world as well.
Interesting about the apostles too. Jesus said they would sit on twelve thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel. Matt 19/28
Seems to be more to this whole doctrine about judging then I realized.
One thing for sure though; re-engineered saints will be in the thick of it.
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| Re: Genetically engineered people [message #8172 is a reply to message #8165] |
Sun, 04 September 2011 17:09 |
Mark L
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OK here are my final thoughts on the OP
The issue here to me is not science but simple bible exegesis. I do realize that is how I posted it. But this vs has sitting deep in my heart for a long time. The usual response when I talk to people about it is a blank stare. There was more response here of course. In all my years as a charismatic xian mostly under the faith message I have never heard anyone give an explanation of this vs. Or even quote it. As far as I can see it is just totally off the map.
What we have here is in a book dealing in large part with history and end times a vs speaking directly to end times.
"They shall mingle themselves with the seed of men but they shall not cleave one to another"
I cannot see how that was fulfilled in some way in the Roman empire. It has to refer to the days of the 10 kings.
So leaving the science and interpretation out of it just simple bible exegesis we have some kind of being that has life and personality that is human but not human. It could mean they are mules. Capable of sex but not procreation. Which is why I called the OP Genetically engineered people. It could mean something else of course. But whatever it means in the last days there will be some kind of being that is partly human and partly not.
[Updated on: Sun, 04 September 2011 19:22]
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| Re: Genetically engineered people [message #8175 is a reply to message #8172] |
Mon, 05 September 2011 02:27 |
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william
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| Quote: |
The issue here to me is not science but simple bible exegesis. I do realize that is how I posted it. But this vs has sitting deep in my heart for a long time. The usual response when I talk to people about it is a blank stare. There was more response here of course. In all my years as a charismatic xian mostly under the faith message I have never heard anyone give an explanation of this vs. Or even quote it. As far as I can see it is just totally off the map.
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Exegesis wouldn't be the term I'd use here because speculation is predominately what you are doing... not that there's anything wrong with that --I do it all the time!
It's kinda like the verses in Genesis 6 that speak of the "sons of God", the "daughters of men" and the "giants". There's a whole lot of speculation about these verses but not too many people can say that their interpretation is in any sense the authoritative interpretation. Ditto's for a number of passages dealing with angels, demons, and the spiritual realm in general!
Speculation tends to put you out there on a limb and consequently we don't get much of that from people in our circles. I'll speculate that it is fear that keeps most people from jumping into discussions on venues like this.
Fear from what? you might ask. Fear of ridicule, fear of being wrong, fear of being labeled as one who was 'once wrong', etc..
Witch hunting is a sport that we've perfected and while few of us have avoided being the target altogether, no one relishes the thought of being brought down by a clichd arrow between our shoulder blades. So we keep our thoughts to ourselves. This really is a shame though because if we really are out there in left field in our thinking wouldn't it be nice to be able to be corrected by our loving brothers and sisters... I mean, who wants to be wrong?
By the way, just in case you are wondering, I'm not talking about your comments on this verse as being in left field, I've never even considered such a thing so I'm certainly not prepared to discount the idea. Your post just gave me an opportunity to verbalize something that I've thought about for some time.
Anyway, I'm still thinking about this, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Blessings,
William
[Updated on: Mon, 05 September 2011 02:30]
I want to believe!
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| Re: Genetically engineered people [message #8180 is a reply to message #8172] |
Mon, 05 September 2011 05:48 |
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william
Messages: 1463
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| Quote: |
What we have here is in a book dealing in large part with history and end times a vs speaking directly to end times.
"They shall mingle themselves with the seed of men but they shall not cleave one to another"
I cannot see how that was fulfilled in some way in the Roman empire. It has to refer to the days of the 10 kings.
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Okay, back to the mutants...<grin>
There are some assumptions that are more obvious (at least to my mind) than those you've set forth.
Here we have an image described and each part of the image represents the kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persian, Greek and Rome.
The feet and toes of this image apparently represent the final stages of the last world empire --Rome.
The question is: Do we ascribe this mixture as a mixture of people (or in your view people and semi-people), kingdoms, or could it be a mixture of political systems, or maybe even more broadly a mixture of Eastern civilization/Western civilization? What about the somewhat similar yet different religions of Islam and Roman Catholicism? (Similar in the sense of both being deceptions.)
Iron & clay, strong & weak... this could be referring to classes of people. The Roman empire was certainly brought to its knees by the intermingling of the so-called upper class and commoners.
Since the passage clearly refers to kingdoms, could the iron and clay represent the political systems of these kingdoms? Democracy & Communism? or Democracy & Monarchies (Monarchies also represent a class of nobility while Democracies, as in mob-rule, can be run by mongrels!<grin>)
Eastern and Western civilizations are very good possibilities since this is exactly what happened when the Roman empire was split into the two legs. We would still need to explain how that both sides have feet of iron and clay, but that isn't hard to do when you consider that *all* of the systems of man are corrupt and inherently weak while on the surface strong and imposing.
If we interpret the iron and clay as religious systems (see the book of Revelation) one can certainly see the improbability of this mixture ever forming an enduring bond of strength!
All of these things seem more probable than viewing the 'they' as cyborg or genetically-engineered-entities, at least in my mind.
Finally, the passage that you quoted about "the souls of men" doesn't have to mean anything mysterious, it could simply be referring to the slave trade. Much of humanity can be described as being enslaved (not just in the spiritual sense) by men in positions of great power. (Tri-lateralists/Bilgerbergers... you know --the new world order people!<grin>)
Blessings,
William
I want to believe!
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| Re: Genetically engineered people [message #8181 is a reply to message #8175] |
Mon, 05 September 2011 11:57 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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| moulder wrote on Sun, 04 September 2011 21:27 |
Speculation tends to put you out there on a limb and consequently we don't get much of that from people in our circles. I'll speculate that it is fear that keeps most people from jumping into discussions on venues like this.
Fear from what? you might ask. Fear of ridicule, fear of being wrong, fear of being labeled as one who was 'once wrong', etc..
Witch hunting is a sport that we've perfected and while few of us have avoided being the target altogether, no one relishes the thought of being brought down by a clichd arrow between our shoulder blades. So we keep our thoughts to ourselves. This really is a shame though because if we really are out there in left field in our thinking wouldn't it be nice to be able to be corrected by our loving brothers and sisters... I mean, who wants to be wrong?
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Who you calling skeered, Willis? 
Then there's those who seem to live their lives 'out there on a limb'...One might even go so far as to 'speculate' that living by FAITH puts one 'out there on a limb'...but I dunno, so why spculate? (I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.)
No, really William I understand your point and it's probably an accurate observation. The lack of reader responses on this forum in relation to the number of readers could reflect that. But for those who are only lead to stop by to visit and read, don't feel condemned, you're still welcomed. I believe The Lord uses different people in different ways, maybe some have a gifting to share and minister in other ways.
But back to the topic, I just haven't been that intrigued about this subject. Opps, what if they determine this additude to be a sign of indifference? O my...will I lose the perfect image of having never been wrong before?
btw: It's football season, so the witches will have to wait...only kidding
reporting from 'left field'...
james
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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