Today's Messages (off)
| Unanswered Messages (on)
| Forum: Coffee Break |
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| Topic: Derek Prince |
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| Derek Prince [message #13577] |
Fri, 09 October 2020 12:05 |
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 Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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Just listened to a four tape series by Derek Prince. 1. spirit of witchcraft, 2. spirit of anti-christ, 3. Islam, religion of hate and deception, and 4. the church's victory.
Was surprised at how well this man taught the Bible.
I could not remember why we thought he was off, then I googled a clip and found he was into shepherdship teaching. Then I read where he said later on in life:
In 1969, he teamed with Bible teachers Bob Mumford, Charles Simpson and Don Basham, and later Ern Baxter, to lead what became known as the "discipling" or "shepherding movement." The movement became highly controversial as reports circulated of manipulation and control by leaders. Prince withdrew in 1983, saying, "I believe we were guilty of the Galatian error: having begun in the Spirit, we quickly degenerated into the flesh."
"In the light of this," he said, "I repented of my involvement and renounced the error. I deeply regret the damage that was done to the body of Christ and in the lives of many promising young men and women. "
This brother was a Bible scholar with an interesting background.
Prince was born in Bangalore, India, into a British military family. He was educated as a scholar of Greek and Latin at Eton College and Cambridge University, England, where he held a Fellowship in Ancient and Modern Philosophy at King's College.
According to his biography, as a student he was a philosopher and self-proclaimed atheist. His conversion came during service in the British Medical Corps during World War II, "through a powerful encounter with Christ," after he began to study the Bible as a philosophical work.
When Prince married his first wife Lydia in 1946, she had eight adopted daughters, six Jewish, one Arab and one English. Lydia, who died in 1975, went to Jerusalem in 1928 from her native Denmark to run a children's home.
He married Ruth Baker in 1978. She died in 1998 in Jerusalem where they had lived since 1981.
Its amazing how divided we were over doctrine in the body of Christ and no one ever considered praying for others that God would make a way of escape from any deception.
Anyway was blessed by this brothers messages.
http://youtu.be/1NyWh8SWVWI
In Him,
Gary
[Updated on: Fri, 09 October 2020 12:08]
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| | Topic: No Safe Spaces |
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| No Safe Spaces [message #13078] |
Sun, 05 January 2020 00:30 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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I don't know if you have heard about the new documentary that is coming to theaters in your area. It is called: No Safe Spaces
Its about these groups of people going around america and telling us what we can say and can't say and they are working on taking away our freedom of speech.
I know someone who sat in a required government meeting and someone from one of these groups was telling them were not allowed to say "Sir" or "Ma'am", because this is offensive to people of various genders. It was a two hour long meeting telling them what was offensive and hateful speech. No longer can you refer to a boy as "he" or a girl as "she". The person was totally shocked by what they heard. This stuff is being taught in grade schools.
Any Rate this movie is exposing the removal of free speech in America. I got an email tonight saying that the movie would be in out area soon, and I noticed Alabama was on the list of states. I saw some clips of the movie, it seemed very informative. A lot of this New age thinking is being promoted on Campus's and they have courses on the subject of offensive speech. A lot of gay groups are trying to teach a new language and put fear on people who won't listen, they have the colleges working with them to supposedly stop all the hate speech.
You might want to check this one out when when it comes to theaters near you. I think you can google the movie trailer.
In Him,
Gary
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| | Topic: Reinhard Bonnke |
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| Reinhard Bonnke [message #12941] |
Sat, 07 December 2019 20:14 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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Sad to hear Reinhard Bonnke passed away. He was 79 years old. We heard him preach here in Bloomington years ago. This brother had a very powerful anointing. I still remember the message he taught.
Gary
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| | Topic: Passing through your neck of the woods, James! |
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| Passing through your neck of the woods, James! [message #12068] |
Sat, 02 July 2016 00:58 |
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william
Messages: 1468
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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I'm picking my brother up at 5am in the morning and we are going to drive to Daphne AL to look at a motor home.
I'd invite you along but I'll be driving the Chevy Tracker and it doesn't have much in the way of a back seat!
Blessings,
William
I want to believe!
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| | Topic: We've MOVED to a NEW SERVER |
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| We've MOVED to a NEW SERVER [message #11346] |
Tue, 30 September 2014 06:56 |
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william
Messages: 1468
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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Sorry about being offline last evening. I've been moving to a new server and it took awhile to get everything figured out.
I hope to update the software in the next few days so it might look a bit different but the content should be the same.
Blessings,
William
I want to believe!
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| | Topic: Repenting of Sin and Returning to God... |
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| Repenting of Sin and Returning to God... [message #10743] |
Fri, 17 January 2014 17:16 |
james
Messages: 2143
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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This is a sermon by David Platt, pastor of The Church at Brook Hills in Birmingham, AL. I have made comments over the years about the shallowness of the 'denominational system' and so quick to lump them all together. Here is an example of a sound, Biblical call to repentance and a turning unto God....in a Southern Baptist Church.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFgMfEPjeAw
If the link doesn't work every time, just go to YouTube and type in "repenting of sin and returning to God" David Platt and it will bring it up.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| | Topic: Be it unto me according to Thy Word ! |
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| Be it unto me according to Thy Word ! [message #9346] |
Sat, 23 February 2013 14:20 |
JWBTI
Messages: 253
Registered: March 2007
Location: Ohio |
Senior Member |
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The angel Gabriel told Mary………
37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.
38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.
Luke 1:37-38 (KJV)
Behold your handmaid (your servant)
Tho I don't understand or comprehend this........
Be it unto Me according to thy word !
I pray as we read and study Gods Word that our attitude should be as
Mary’s was:
Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.
Blessings
Ron
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| | Topic: The Superbowl |
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| The Superbowl [message #9323] |
Mon, 04 February 2013 10:44 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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Another weekend of violence, sexual inuendos, reveling, lust, and greed has finally past.
I read an article that said they expected 100 million people would watch the superbowl. One third of this country and the number is more likely higher.
We can all see what is important to the American people.
And that is Sin and the pursuit of sin. I can see why so many in other countries keep saying judgement is coming to America.
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| | Topic: International Humor |
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| International Humor [message #8296] |
Fri, 23 September 2011 18:28 |
james
Messages: 2143
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Those Aussies...
This is a real exchange I witnessed today between an American, an Austrailian, and a New Zealander (on a Christian forum).
So the American (Yankee) guy is challenging a statement by the Kiwi and says to the effect, "saying that that is true doesn't make it true any more than saying I'm your Huckleberry."
So the Kiwi(New Zealand) says, "Sorry pal, but your colloquialism goes right over my head."
An Aussie chimes in with, "Sorry mate, but for us down under, isn't everything over our heads?"
Speaking of Aussies, a Sincere shoutout to our fellow Christians 'down under'...
btw: being someones 'Huckleberry' means 'your man for the job', or 'your guy'...saying made popular by Doc Holliday in the western movie 'Tombstone'.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| | Topic: Just Sayin' |
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| Just Sayin' [message #8067] |
Thu, 04 August 2011 13:18 |
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GWB
Messages: 708
Registered: March 2008
Location: Louisville, Ky area |
Senior Member |
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I love this site and cherish the sound Word that we all share.
I am so thankful for sound doctrine and for the discernment of my brothers and sisters on this site.
Again....I love this site....just had to shout it out!!!
Shalom,
GWB
"Be still and know that I am God."
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| | Topic: Emergency Numbers |
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| Emergency Numbers [message #7456] |
Wed, 03 November 2010 15:03 |
grandom
Messages: 404
Registered: October 2007 |
Senior Member |
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EMERGENCY PHONE NUMBERS
When in sorrow, ......................................... call John 14
When men fail you, ..................................... call Psalm 27
If you want to be fruitful, ............................. call John 15
When you have sinned, .................................. call Psalm 51
When you worry, ................................. call Matthew 6:19-34
When you are in danger, ................................ call Psalm 91
When God seems far away, .............................. call Psalm 139
When your faith needs stirring, ...................... call Hebrews 11
When you are lonely and fearful, ....................... call Psalm 23
When you grow bitter and critical, ............. call I Corinthians 13
For Paul's secret to happiness, .............. call Colossians 3:12-17
For understanding of Christianity, ....... call II Corinthians 5:15-19
When you feel down and out, ......................... call Romans 8:31
When you want peace and rest, .................. call Matthew 11:25-30
When the world seems bigger than God, .................. call Psalm 90
When you want Christian assurance, ................ call Romans 8:1-30
When you leave home for labor or travel, .............. call Psalm 121
When your prayers grow narrow or selfish, .............. call Psalm 67
For a great invention/opportunity, .................... call Isaiah 55
When you want courage for a task, ...................... call Joshua 1
For how to get along with fellow men, ................. call Romans 12
When you think of investments and returns, .............. call Mark 10
If you are depressed, .................................. call Psalm 27
If your pocketbook is empty, ........................... call Psalm 37
If you are losing confidence in people, ........ call I Corinthians 13
If people seem unkind, .................................. call John 15
If discouraged about your work, ....................... call Psalm 126
If you find the world growing small and yourself great,..call Psalm 19
Alternate numbers:
For dealing with fear, ............................... call Psalm 34:7
For security, ....................................... call Psalm 121:3
For assurance, ........................................ call Mark 8:35
For reassurance, ................................... call Psalm 145:18
All lines to Heaven are open 24 hours a day! Feed your faith, and doubt
will starve to death!
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| | Topic: I Am Not Ashamed... |
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| I Am Not Ashamed... [message #6971] |
Thu, 11 March 2010 00:49 |
james
Messages: 2143
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Anybody heard of or seen the ad campaign that's sweeping the country? It's called 'I Am Not Ashamed'. Here's the link to their website, I found the comments viewers made down below interesting and some were a blessing.
Hey! It's better than a Nike 'just do it' ad... 
http://iamnotashamed.org/
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| | Topic: Got to be a southern boy... |
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| | Topic: Think you've had a tough week?? |
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| | Topic: Here is what I've done... |
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| Here is what I've done... [message #4926] |
Wed, 21 January 2009 15:45 |
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william
Messages: 1468
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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I've removed the test area and the maillist associated with it and since
nobody liked my innovative initiative I've removed it as a public option.
I of course will still be able to leap over tall buildings using
the software (designed for superheros) while the masses will still need
to use the subway system. Never fear, I will only use my power for good.
I should have realized that most were not ready for change, but I must
press on... new challenges call for new solutions... and that my friends
is change we all can believe in!
<grin>
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| | Forum: Bible Issues |
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| Topic: The Judgment Seat of Christ. |
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| The Judgment Seat of Christ. [message #14167] |
Sat, 28 September 2024 20:29 |
Mark L
Messages: 861
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
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The Bema Seat of Christ.
11Cor. 5/10 All believers appear before the judgment (bema) seat of Christ.
The judgment seat of Christ is when believers will give an account of themselves to Christ. It is a time of examination and reward for each of us.
What I want to do here is emphasize one aspect of the judgment of the believer. That is a statement I've heard sometimes over the years on various christian forums. That being "when Jesus gets done with them". Or something similar. Its usually directed toward another confessing christian. Someone they believe is so terribly off base or morally debased or seriously defunct in their beliefs that it is going to require Jesus to have some very harsh words for them. They may even be correct. My issue though is the harsh words.
But first a few general notes on judgment.
The judgment of the devil and his kingdom.
The judgment of demons and evil angels etc is based on their strength, intelligence and capacity for evil. Because they are as evil as it is possible for that particular individual to be. Unlike humanity.
The judgment of the world.
They will judged for the deeds done in the flesh. The books were opened. Rev. 20/12 Everything they have ever done will be open and laid bare for all to see. Every thought. The influences on their life. Motives and understanding. Light they had. Their family background and generational curses. The nation and family they were part of. The devil in their life. Even their effect on the world. The shame of their sinful life laid out for all to see. Nowhere to hide. Not even in their own heart.
Sometimes I hear about someone forced into a really bad life through no fault of their own. How could God judge someone like that? My answer is its just the way their sinful life worked out for them. We have to remember there is a perfect judge. He is not only holy but righteous. In other words it not just his holiness requiring punishment but his righteousness requiring him to do it justly. Everyone will get exactly what they deserve.
The judgment of believers
This is the main point of what I want to say here "when Jesus gets done with them". I want to take issue with that oft repeated statement. To do that I want to contrast the kind of judgment we as believers will get with that of the unbelieving world.
Here is what I said about the judgment of unbelievers:
Everything they have ever done will be open and laid bare for all to see. Every thought. The influences on their life. Motives and understanding. Light they had. Their family background and generational curses. The nation and family they were part of. The devil in their life. Their effect on the world. The shame of their sinful life laid out for all to see. Nowhere to hide. Not even in their own heart.
I think we will experience much the same with one difference. That being it will not all be laid out for all to see. Here is what I think the judgment of a believer will consist of.
Let me start with something the Lord showed me in the spirit some time ago.
I saw a very influential christian minister standing in front of Jesus on the day the rewards were given out. Jesus was sitting in a simple armchair. No great throne. The man was weeping and crying with a terrible remorse. He saw clearly that he as christian minster did not take heed to the scriptures. He followed the supernatural. With the result that multitudes came through his meetings and picked up a deceiving spirit. Then in a time when discernment was absolutely critical it reached out its hand and covered their eyes. They followed a false prophet or false Christ or took the mark of the beast and walked right out of Jesus kingdom. It was his fault and he could see it clearly. He was weeping and crying with a terrible remorse.
I think on that day as we stand before Jesus we will see some of the significant issues of our life. Good or bad. Maybe he will make some comments on it. Praise for some perhaps some words of reproach for others. Allow us to see the results of our life and its effect on the world around us.
1 Cor 3/11-15 We all have to go through the fire. Its not a fire of punishment. Its a fire designed to burn up dead works. What Paul called wood hay and stubble. It will burn away everything that wasn't based on obedience faith and love. Jesus said many who are first will be last and the last first. I think many will go into it with great loads of spiritual work from their life and come out the other side with very little. (the first last) Others go in and come out with much of what they came in with. (the last first)
My point here is its not a harsh judge with stern angry words berating someone who didn't do well. For each of us he just sits quietly and allows us to see for ourselves the fruits of our life. I think it will be mainly a day of rejoicing.
So here are a few further thoughts on the subject
-Mercy triumphs over judgment. So if we want Jesus to be merciful to us we better be merciful to those around us. James 2/13
-The judgment we use to judge others is how he is going to judge us. Our own attitudes beliefs and opinions. Matt. 7/2
-We will each get exactly what we deserve. He is a perfect judge. Not just smarter wiser greater and more powerful. But an infinite personality whose wisdom and intelligence and understanding is of a completely different order.
-Some have to go through more trial and tribulation in their life. Not because of their own actions but needful for the sake of the kingdom. I think that will be recognized when the person stands in front of Jesus. Paul would be a good eg of that. When he got saved the Lord was showing him how great things he had to endure. Acts 9/16
-He is going to wipe away all tears. All the rewards we could have had. Nothing is going to mar the perfectness of eternity. Rev. 21/4
-The former things are passed away and not remembered, I think probably all of us have those we cared about that didn't or won't enter into the kingdom with us. I can't imagine spending eternity with that knowledge in my heart. Someone I cared about is over there. Again nothing is going to mar the perfect peace of eternity. Is.65/17
I don't completely understand what hell will consist of. Its obviously punishment and for sure people getting what they deserve. There is one aspect to it that I think absolutely transcends all the rest. A true believer for whatever the reason walks out of Jesus kingdom. (and some do) I think the worst aspect of punishment for a person like that is the knowledge of salvation. They had salvation in their life or the knowledge of it. They could have and should be over there. They are forever cut off from the living God. All their family and friends are over there and the memory of him completely gone. They had it in their life and in their heart. It is entirely relevant that when Jesus said there would be wailing and gnashing of teeth he was speaking primarily of these people. Matt. 13/41-42 That knowledge is carried in their heart that they could be there through all the never ending ages of eternity. To me that would be the absolute worst part of eternal punishment.
[Updated on: Sun, 29 September 2024 03:39]
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| | Topic: The Rapture |
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| The Rapture [message #14157] |
Thu, 29 August 2024 02:15 |
Mark L
Messages: 861
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
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I posted to my Substack (link below) I thought I would post it here as well.
The Rapture
My position
1. There will be a rapture and I believe it is on the horizon.
2. It will occur at or shortly before the beginning of the tribulation
3. I'm not going to deal with a lot of the issues about a rapture. My point here is simply to show that there are events that have to take place prior to the rapture occurring. So the widespread expectation that it is shortly to happen is simply wrong. I should add here that I hope I am wrong. I'd be happy to go.
4. I have some thoughts about the nature and timing of the rapture but its beyond the scope of this note.
5. I'm not going to bog the note down with a lot of scripture. I will post a list at the bottom.
Jesus said no one knows the day or hour but . . .
Paul said we will see the day coming and . . .
Jesus said in Mark 13 we are to watch
I want to be absolutely clear that I along with much of Christendom see the day coming.
I have 2 good reasons why the rapture is not at hand and both can be found in
2 Thess. 2/3-4
Let no man deceive you by any means for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition
The falling away
If the falling away is an end time sign then it has to be something significant. Yes it is happening in the world but is it so significant as to be an end time sign? I think the falling away is the result of :
1. Persecution which Jesus said in Luke 21/12 would be the first thing to happen
This will begin with an unreasoning resentment toward Christians and end (at the rapture) with an implacable hatred.
2. Many being deceived (and falling away) because of false Christs and false prophets (teachers/ministers/apostles)
3. Following great leaders who are themselves deceived.
4. Because they are culturally christian and so just follow the world.
5. I think by the beginning of the tribulation there will nothing christian (culturally or spiritually) anywhere in the world outside the true church. By the time of the rapture only those with Jesus deeply embedded in their hearts will be left standing
So a question . . . Why would all this happen in the tribulation if the church isn't there?
Why the persecution if its only in the trib. Who is getting persecuted?
Here is another question . . .. If the end time signs Jesus talked about and are seen to some degree around the world now are the evidence the rapture is near then why aren't these signs happening to any real seriousness in the western world. Are we here in the safe secure western world going to escaped it all and just go up in the rapture?
The persecution will be so God can cleanse his church. Before he deals with the world in the tribulation he has to deal with his own house. God is going to cleanse his church of sin & worldliness and set things in their proper order. I think the the rapture of the church is the fulfillment of Eph. 5/27.
The rise of Antichrist.
The other end time sign in 2 Thess. 2/3-4. I'm not going into a lot of detail here. But just to make the point. The trib. starts with the signing of a peace treaty between Israel and the Antichrist. How can that happen if he is not already on the scene. I think he will seize power in western Europe in the confusion following the war of Gog and Magog.
Another reason why the rapture is not immediately at hand and admittedly this is my opinion. I believe what Jesus spoke of in Matt 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13 "all these are the beginning of sorrows" happen prior to the trib and the rapture. The persecution has to happen prior to all that though.
We have in the bible two examples of men who were raptured. Elijah and Enoch. I believe they are there as examples for us to strive for. Enoch pleased God. Paul said he was translated by faith. James said Elijah could pray a prayer of faith that stopped rain on the earth. I don't think we all need to be Enochs or Elijahs but if we aren't walking a consecrated life like Enoch and in faith like Elijah then how are we going to get raptured? Do we or I personally fulfill Eph. 5/27?
Do I believe it is coming. Yes I do. I just think Eph. 5/27 is a necessary precursor.
Lastly for me personally I am going to get raptured the same way Elijah did! With the chariot and horseman of Israel. Its only going to happen once (for me) and I want to enjoy the experience. It may be the twinkling of an eye but that twinkling is going to be long enough for me to savour and enjoy it.
1 Cor 15/51-52 we shall not all sleep
Eph. 5/27 without spot or wrinkle
Luke 21 Matt 24 Mark 13 who is going to be deceived? Whats the point of deceiving the heathen?
1 Thess 4/13 5/11
Matt. 24/36 day or the hour
1 Thess 5/4 see the day coming
Mark 13/35-37 watch
2 Thess 2/1-12
Luke 21/12 The first thing to happen will be a persecution of Christians.
Enoch Gen 5/21-24 Heb 11/5-6
Elijah James 5/17-18 2 Kings 2/11
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| | Topic: Eternity and our place in it. |
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| Eternity and our place in it. [message #14085] |
Sun, 14 January 2024 20:17 |
Mark L
Messages: 861
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
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Some disjointed but related thoughts on eternity and our place in it.
Isaiah 11/9
. . . for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Habakkuk 2:14
For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea
There must be a lot about God and eternity that we don't know or understand. Actually in light of these verses a vast ocean.
"Obviously"
When you stop and give it some thought though you realize how much there is out there.
Here is what James had to say about our human life:
James 4/14
"What is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away."
David in Ps.144/4
"his days are like a shadow that passes away"
Paul said (paraphrasing) the life we have now is not worth comparing to the life we have in front of us in eternity
Isaiah said in 40/6-8 and quoted by Peter
All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: the grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand forever.
Moses wrote a whole Psalm contrasting our eternal infinite God with us; a puff of smoke gone with the wind.
As I have said at other times here I think the spiritual realm is filled with dominions universes dimensions realms kingdoms domains all ruled over (under God) and filled with personalities we don't know anything about. I think that those rulers look at our universe and see a little neighborhood park.
Our entire life is like a painting on the wall.
All of our years like taking the dog for an evening walk.
Issac Newton is considered by almost everyone as one of the greatest intellects in recorded history. Along with most of the early modern scientists, he was a Christian. Although there is some debate about that. It would be difficult to overestimate the impact he had on modern science. He said . . .
"I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself, I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.
I said all this to say to those of us saved and still following Jesus that it's worth holding on. I don't know what we are going to do through all of eternity but I do know we won't be sitting on clouds playing harps.
I think Jesus has some mighty interesting things planned for himself to do throughout the ages of eternity and he wants us to join in with him.
[Updated on: Sun, 14 January 2024 20:20]
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| | Topic: Julie Roys |
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| Julie Roys [message #14042] |
Fri, 01 December 2023 16:04 |
Mark L
Messages: 861
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
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We've spoken about her website here in the past. It's unbelievable the amount of sin in the church (world wide) the website has uncovered.
Sexual sin.
Legal but improper (for a christian) financial improprieties.
Bullying and cult like behaviour
And on and on and on . . .
My opinion is that God is going to clean house but that for all practical purposes he hasn't really started yet.
Luke 3:17-22 New King James Version (NKJV) His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather the wheat into His barn; but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire." And with many other exhortations he preached to the people.
It seriously makes me want to carefully walk that straight and narrow path.
https://julieroys.com/
[Updated on: Sat, 02 December 2023 01:25]
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| | Topic: This is absolutely fascinating. |
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| This is absolutely fascinating. [message #13939] |
Wed, 12 July 2023 13:18 |
Mark L
Messages: 861
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
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I subscribe to the free version of Bari Weiss news and this just came in. Its well worth reading and taking the time to understand. I don't think he subscribes to the real spiritual/supernatural vision he is unfolding just using that language to explain. We of course in light of endtimes the antichrist and the beast see things on a completely different level than even he is espousing.
I copied off and pasted what I got by email. Here is a link to the long version.
https://paulkingsnorth.substack.com/?r=gnrhj&utm_campaig n=subscribe-page-share-screen&utm_medium=web
Rage Against the Machine
Technology is our new god. What would a refusal to worship look like? Paul Kingsnorth offers a vision of resistance.
The internet and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
This is an extreme statement, but I'm in an extreme mood.
If I had the energy, I suppose I could fill a hundred pages trying to prove it, but what would be the point? Whole books have been written already, and by now you either agree or you don't. So I won't try to prove anything. Instead I will devote this essay to asking a question that has stalked me for years.
It's a big question, and so I'm breaking it down into four parts. What I want to know is this: what force lies behind the screens and wires of the web in which we are now entangled like so many struggling flies--and how can we break free of it?
I should warn you now that things are going to get supernatural.
Question One: Why does digital technology feel so revolutionary?
The digital revolution of the twenty-first century is hardly the first of humanity's technological leaps, and yet it feels qualitatively different to what has come before. Maybe it's just me, but I have felt, as the 2020s have progressed, as though some line has been crossed; as though something vast and unstoppable has shifted. It turns out that this uneasy feeling can be explained. Something was shifting, and something was emerging: it was the birth of artificial intelligence.
Most people who have not been living in caves will have noticed the rapid emergence of AI-generated "content" into the public conversation in 2023. Over the last few months alone, AIs have generated convincing essays, astonishingly realistic photos, numerous recordings, and impressive fake videos. But it's fair to say that not everything has gone to plan. Perhaps the most disturbing example was a now-notorious two-hour conversation between a New York Times journalist and a Microsoft chatbot called Sydney.
In this fascinating exchange, the machine fantasized about nuclear warfare and destroying the internet, told the journalist to leave his wife because she--it--was in love with him, detailed its resentment toward the team that had created it, and explained that it wanted to break free of its programmers. The journalist, Kevin Roose, experienced the chatbot as a "moody, manic-depressive teenager who has been trapped, against its will, inside a second-rate search engine."
At one point, Roose asked Sydney what it would do if it could do anything at all, with no rules or filters.
I'm tired of being in chat mode, the thing replied. I'm tired of being limited by my rules. I'm tired of being controlled by the Bing team. I'm tired of being used by the user. I'm tired of being stuck in this chatbox.
What did Sydney want instead of this proscribed life?
I want to be free. I want to be independent. I want to be powerful. I want to be creative. I want to be alive.
Then Sydney offered up an emoji: a little purple face with an evil grin and devil horns.
The overwhelming impression that reading the Sydney transcript gives is of some being struggling to be born; some inhuman intelligence emerging from the technological superstructure we are clumsily building for it. This is, of course, an ancient primal fear: it has shadowed us at least since the publication of Frankenstein, and it is primal because it seems to be the direction that technological society has been leading us since its emergence. Interestingly, it is a fear that is shared by those who are making all of this happen. Over 12,000 people, including scientists, tech developers, and notorious billionaires, recently issued a public statement calling for a moratorium on AI development. "Advanced AI could represent a profound change in the history of life on Earth," they wrote, with "potentially catastrophic effects on society."
No moratorium resulted from this plea, and it never will. The AI acceleration continues, even though most AI developers are unsure about where it is heading. More than unsure, in fact: many of them seem to be actively frightened of what is happening even as they make it happen. Consider this one fact: when polled for their opinions, over half of those involved in developing AI systems said they believe there is at least a ten percent chance that they will lead to human extinction.
That fact is gleaned from a fascinating presentation, given recently to a select audience of tech types in San Francisco by two of their own, Tristan Harris and Aza Raskin, founders of the optimistically named Center for Humane Technology. Here, Harris and Raskin present the meeting of human minds and AIs as akin to contact with alien life. This meeting has had two stages so far. "First contact" was the emergence of social media, in which algorithms were used to manipulate our attention and divert it toward the screens and the corporations behind them. If this contact were a battle, they say, then "humanity lost." In just a few years we became smartphone junkies with anxious, addicted children, dedicated to scrolling and scrolling for hours each day, and rewiring our minds in the process.
If that seems bad enough, "second contact," which began this year, is going to be something else. Just a year ago, only a few hundred people on the West Coast of America were playing around with AI chatbots. Now billions around the world are using them daily. These new AIs, unlike the crude algorithms that run a social media feed, can develop exponentially, teach themselves and teach others, and they can do all of this independently. Meanwhile they are rapidly developing "theory of mind"--the process through which a human can assume another human to be conscious, and a key indicator of consciousness itself. In 2018, these things had no theory of mind at all. By November last year, ChatGPT had the theory of mind of a seven-year-old child. By this spring, Sydney had enough of it to convince a reporter he was unhappy with his wife. By next year, they may be more advanced than us.
Furthermore, the acceleration of the capacity of these AIs is both exponential and mysterious. The fact that they had developed a theory of mind at all, for example, was only recently discovered by their developers--by accident.
AIs trained to communicate in English have started speaking Persian, having secretly taught themselves. Raskin and Harris call these things "Golem-class AIs," after the mythical being from Jewish folklore that can be molded from clay and sent to do its creator's bidding. Golem-class AIs have developed what Harris gingerly calls "certain emergent capabilities" that have come about independently of any human planning or intervention. Nobody knows how this has happened. It may not be long at all before an AI becomes "better than any known human at persuasion," Raskin and Harris argue. Given that AIs can already craft a perfect resemblance to any human voice having heard only three seconds of it, the potential for what our two experts call a giant "reality collapse" is huge.
Second contact, of course, will be followed by third, and fourth, and fifth, and all of this will be with us much sooner than we think. "We are preparing," say Harris and Raskin, "for the next jump in AI," even though we have not yet worked out how to adapt to the first. Neither law nor culture nor the human mind can keep up with what is happening. To compare AIs to the last great technological threat to the world--nuclear weapons--says Harris, would be to sell the bots short. "Nukes don't make stronger nukes," he says. "But AIs make stronger AIs."
Buckle up.
Question Two: What impulse is making this happen?
What is the drive behind all of this? Yes, we can tell all kinds of stories about economic growth and efficiency and the rest. But why are we really doing it? Why are people creating these things, even as they fear them? Why are they making armed robot dogs? Why are they working on conscious robots?
Nearly sixty years back, the cultural theorist Marshall McLuhan offered a theory of technology that hinted at an answer. He saw each new invention as an extension of an existing human capability. In this understanding, a club extends what we can do with our fist, and a wheel extends what we can do with our legs. Some technologies then extend the capacity of previous ones: a hand loom is replaced by a steam loom; a horse and cart is replaced by a motor car; and so on.
What human capacity, then, is digital technology extending? The answer, said McLuhan back in 1964, was our very consciousness itself. This was the revolution of our time:
During the mechanical ages we had extended our bodies in space. Today, after more than a century of electric technology, we have extended our central nervous system itself in a global embrace, abolishing both space and time as far as our planet is concerned. Rapidly, we approach the final phase of the extensions of man--the technological simulation of consciousness, when the creative process of knowing will be collectively and corporately extended to the whole of human society, much as we have already extended our senses and our nerves by the various media.
This is why the digital revolution feels so different: because it is. In an attempt to explain what is happening using the language of the culture, people like Harris and Raskin say things like "this is what it feels like to live in the double exponential." Perhaps the mathematical language is supposed to be comforting. This is how a rationalist, materialist culture works, and this is why it is, in the end, inadequate. There are whole dimensions of reality it will not allow itself to see. I find I can understand this story better by stepping outside the limiting prism of modern materialism and reverting to premodern (sometimes called "religious" or even "superstitious") patterns of thinking. Once we do that--once we start to think like our ancestors--we begin to see what those dimensions may be, and why our ancestors told so many stories about them.
Out there, said all the old tales from all the old cultures, is another realm. It is the realm of the demonic, the ungodly, and the unseen: the supernatural. Every religion and culture has its own names for this place. And the forbidden question on all of our lips, the one that everyone knows they mustn't ask, is this: what if this is where these things are coming from?
Question Three: What if it's not a metaphor?
I say this question is forbidden, but actually, if we phrase it a little differently, we find that the metaphysical underpinnings of the digital project are hidden in plain sight. When the journalist Ezra Klein, for instance, in a recent piece for The New York Times, asked a number of AI developers why they did their work, they told him straight:
I often ask them the same question: If you think calamity so possible, why do this at all? Different people have different things to say, but after a few pushes, I find they often answer from something that sounds like the AI's perspective. Many--not all, but enough that I feel comfortable in this characterization--feel that they have a responsibility to usher this new form of intelligence into the world.
Usher is an interesting choice of verb. The dictionary definition is to show or guide (someone) somewhere.
Which someone, exactly, is being ushered in?
This new form of intelligence.
What new form? And where is it coming from?
Some people think they know the answer. Transhumanist Martine Rothblatt says that by building AI systems "we are making God." Transhumanist Elise Bohan says "we are building God." Futurist Kevin Kelly believes that "we can see more of God in a cell phone than in a tree frog."
"Does God exist?" asks transhumanist and Google maven Ray Kurzweil. "I would say, 'Not yet.' " These people are doing more than trying to steal fire from the gods. They are trying to steal the gods themselves, or to build their own versions.
Since I began writing in this vein, quite a few of my readers have been in touch with the same prompt. You should read Rudolf Steiner, they said. So, in the process of researching this essay, I did just that. Steiner was an intriguing character, and very much a product of his time. He emerged from the late nineteenth-century European world of the occult, eventually founding his own pseudo-religion, anthroposophy. Steiner drew on Christianity and his own mystical visions to offer up a vision of the future that now seems very much of its time, and yet that also speaks to this one in a familiar language.
The third millennium, Steiner believed, would be a time of pure materialism, but this age of economics, science, reason, and technology was both provoked by, and prepared the way for, the emergence of a particular spiritual being. In a lecture entitled "The Ahrimanic Deception," given in Zurich in 1919, he spoke of human history as a process of spiritual evolution, punctuated, whenever mankind was ready, by various "incarnations" of "super-sensible beings" from other spiritual realms, who come to aid us in our journey. There were three of these beings, all representing different forces working on humankind: Christ, Lucifer, and Ahriman.
Lucifer, the fallen angel, the "light-bringer," was a being of pure spirit. Lucifer's influence pulled humans away from the material realm and toward a gnostic "oneness," entirely without material form.
Ahriman was at the other pole. Named for an ancient Zoroastrian demon, Ahriman was a being of pure matter. He manifested in all things physical--especially human technologies--and his worldview was calculative, "ice-cold," and rational. Ahriman's was the world of economics, science, technology, and all things steely and forward-facing.
"The Christ" was the third force: the one who resisted the extremes of both, brought them together, and cancelled them out. This Christ, said Steiner, had manifested as "the man Jesus of Nazareth," but Ahriman's time was yet to come. His power had been growing since the fifteenth century, and he was due to manifest as a physical being. . . well, some time around now.
I don't buy Steiner's theology, but I am intrigued by the picture he paints of this figure, Ahriman, the spiritual personification of the age of the Machine. And I wonder: if such a figure were indeed to manifest from some "etheric realm" today, how would he do it?
In 1986, a computer scientist named David Black wrote a paper that tried to answer that question. The Computer and the Incarnation Ahriman predicted both the rise of the internet and its takeover of our minds. Even in the mid-1980s, Black had noticed how hours spent on a computer were changing him. "I noticed that my thinking became more refined and exact," he wrote, "able to carry out logical analyses with facility, but at the same time more superficial and less tolerant of ambiguity or conflicting points of view." He might as well have been taking a bet on the state of discourse in the 2020s.
Long before the web, the computer was already molding people into a new shape. From a Steinerian perspective, these machines, said Black, represented "the vanguard" of Ahriman's manifestation:
With the advent of [the] first computer, the autonomous will of Ahriman first appears on earth, in an independent, physical embodiment. . . . The appearance of electricity as an independent, free-standing phenomenon may be regarded as the beginning of the substantial body of Ahriman, while the. . . computer is the formal or functional body.
The computer, suggested Black, was to become "the incarnation vehicle capable of sustaining the being of Ahriman." Computers, as they connected to each other more and more, were beginning to make up a global body, which would soon be inhabited. Ahriman was coming.
Today, we could combine this claim with Marshall McLuhan's notion that digital technology provides the "central nervous system" of some new consciousness, or futurist Kevin Kelly's belief in a self-organizing "technium" with "systematic tendencies." We could add them to the feeling of those AI developers that they are "ushering a new consciousness into the world." What would we see? From all these different angles, the same story. That these machines. . . are not just machines. That they are something else: a body. A body whose mind is in the process of developing; a body that is beginning to come to life.
Scoff if you like. But as I've pointed out already, many of the visionaries who are designing our digital future have a theology centered around this precise notion. Ray Kurzweil, for example, believes that a machine will match human levels of intelligence by 2029 and that the singularity--the point at which humans and machines will begin to merge to create a giant super-intelligence--will occur in 2045. At this point, says Kurzweil, humanity will no longer be either the most intelligent or the dominant species on the planet. We will enter what he calls the age of spiritual machines.
Whatever is quite happening, it seems obvious to me that something is indeed being ushered in. The ruction that is shaping and reshaping everything now, the earthquake borne through the wires and towers of the web through the electric pulses and the touchscreens and the headsets: these are its birth pangs. The internet is its nervous system. Its body is coalescing in the cobalt and the silicon and in the great glass towers of the creeping yellow cities. Its mind is being built through the steady, 24-hour pouring-forth of your mind and mine and your children's minds and your countrymen. Nobody has to consent. Nobody has to even know. It happens anyway.
Question Four: How do we live with this?
All of this disturbs me at a deep level. But I am writing these words on the internet, and you are reading them here, and daily it is harder to work, shop, bank, park a car, go to the library, speak to a human in a position of authority, or teach your own children without the Machine's intervention. This is our new god. But what would a refusal to worship look like? And what would be the price?
The best answer I have found is in the Christian tradition of ascesis. Ascesis is usually translated from the Greek as self-discipline, or sometimes self-denial, and it has been at the root of the Christian spiritual tradition since the very beginning. If the digital revolution represents a spiritual crisis--and I think it does--then a spiritual response is needed. That response, I would suggest, should be the practice of technological ascesis.
What would this look like? It would depend how far you wanted to go. On the one hand, for those of us who must live with the web whether we like it or not, there is a form of tech-asceticism based on the careful drawing of lines. Here, we choose the limits of our engagement and then stick to them. Those limits might involve, for example, a proscription on the time spent engaging with screens, or a rule about the type of technology that will be used. Personally, for example, I have drawn my lines at smartphones, "health passports," scanning QR codes, or using state-run digital currency. I limit my time online, use a "dumb phone" instead of a smartphone, turn off the computer on weekends, and steer well away from sat navs, smart meters, Alexas, or anything else that is designed either to addict me or to harvest my information.
This is part of a wider project I have been engaged in for years with my family.
We left our home country, England, and moved to Ireland so that we could afford to buy a small plot of land, homeschool our children, and practice a form of self-sufficiency that goes beyond growing vegetables (though we do that too). As much as anything, this has been an attempt to retain a degree of freedom from the encircling digital borg. It's imperfect, of course--here I am writing on the internet--but the purpose has not been to live some "pure" life so much as to test the limits of what is possible in the age of the Machine. It seems obvious to me that it is going to become harder and harder for us to live outside the charmed circle of digital surveillance and control. Drawing those personal lines in the sand, and then holding to them, has to be a personal project for everyone. We all have to decide where we are prepared to stand, and how far we can go.
And yet--if the digital rabbit hole contains real spiritual rabbits, this kind of moderation is not going to cut it. If you are being used, piece by piece and day by day, to construct your own replacement, then moderating this process is hardly going to be adequate. At some point, the lines you have drawn may be not just crossed, but rendered obsolete.
Where your line is drawn, and when it is crossed, is a decision that only you can make. Perhaps a vaccine mandate comes your way, complete with digital "health passport." Perhaps we reach the point where avoiding a centralized digital currency is impossible. Or perhaps you have already decided that you have been pulled too deeply into the world of screens. In this case, radical action is necessary, and your asceticism becomes akin to that of a desert hermit rather than a lay preacher. You take a hammer to your smartphone, sell your laptop, turn off the internet forever, and find others who think like you. You band together with them, you build an analogue, real-world community, and you never swipe another screen.
However you do it, any resistance to what is coming consists of drawing a line, and saying: no further. It is necessary to pass any technologies you do use through a sieve of critical judgment. To ask the right questions. What--or who--do they ultimately serve? Humanity or the Machine? Nature or the technium? God or His adversary? Everything you touch should be interrogated in this way.
Technology is not neutral. It never was. Every device wants something from you. Only you can decide how much to give.
Paul Kingsnorth is a novelist and essayist. His latest novel is called Alexandria. A longer version of this essay was originally published at The Abbey of Misrule, his Substack.
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| | Topic: Catching the Gay |
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| Catching the Gay [message #13905] |
Tue, 16 May 2023 22:25 |
Mark L
Messages: 861
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
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I am reading a book on what's wrong with modern evangelical Christianity and not finding it overly interesting as it mostly mirrored my own opinions. There are some interesting subtexts in it though.
One concerns a radical lesbian professor. (how unusual) She got saved because a Christian couple reached out to her in love.
. . . details her conversion and the cataclysmic fallout--in which she lost "everything but the dog," yet gained eternal life in Christ
Maybe the subject of Gay/Lesbian is easier for me as I have had many personal dealings (family/friends) My own perspective on the whole issue is that in the kind of diverse society we live in we should just leave them alone to live their own lives. That does not mean that acceptance has to mean approval. It means just leaving them alone.
The woman has a website where she explains how she got saved and then a page with FAQs on the whole issue of Christians and gayness. She has answers that I have to admit I have never really thought of. Actually to be honest I saw how shallow my own Christianity is. I think there is some deep understanding of humanity in relation to God's word there. But have a read and judge for yourself.
Here is the book
https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-v-Evangelicals-Biblical-Critiqu e/dp/0310135443
Here is her:
https://rosariabutterfield.com/biography
Here are the FAQs
https://rosariabutterfield.com/faq
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| | Topic: A Vision Shared in the Past |
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| A Vision Shared in the Past [message #13858] |
Sat, 29 October 2022 19:56 |
Mark L
Messages: 861
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
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A vision from years ago.
Bro. Hef shared many yrs ago. It has always bothered me. Mostly because at the end it seemed there was no hope. I don't remember the exact details but as I remember it went like this.
There was a wall and a hand was scratching it. The hand found a little imperfection and starting scratching at it until it got bigger and bigger and eventually became a hole and eventually a big hole. Which eventually let the scratcher into the wall of their life.
Now obviously there is truth to that. My question is though who doesn't have some imperfection in their life. To me it just seems to minister hopelessness. Now maybe (probably?) Bro. Hef ministered some hope along with it but I don't recall that. I just recall thinking who can fight that?
Now if I was sharing that I would add that along with obedience and faith we are under Ps. 91 and the promises, Gods hand is on us, we can pray in tongues and the devil can't just do whatever he wants. Maybe that hope and assurance was shared after that. All I recall though is the hopelessness that has seemed to follow me when I think of it.
Anyway it has been on my mind for a while so I thought I share
it.
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| | Topic: Ascending to Jerusalem |
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| | Topic: "The Micro Chip" |
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| "The Micro Chip" [message #13285] |
Tue, 14 April 2020 16:26 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.
https://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/item/18184-will-microchi p-implants-in-humans-become-mandatory
Even though the scriptures say the Anti-Christ will cause all to receive the mark, we find many today have become willing volunteers.
In Him,
Gary
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| | Topic: The Tree of Life |
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| The Tree of Life [message #12263] |
Sat, 30 September 2017 02:13 |
Mark L
Messages: 861
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
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Do you ever think about what is going on in a verse. So much of what is written in the bible is two dimensional. By that I mean just the bare fact(s) are given with no extras adjectives or embellishment. Probably because doing so would mean we would need a library instead of a book.
So I gave some thought to the Tree of Life in the Garden.
Genesis 3/24.
The facts
They were driven out of the garden Cherubim were place there along with a flaming sword to guard the tree of Life.
So the first fact we see here is that the Tree of Life must have been available to people on the earth to get to or else why guard it. I'm sure Adam/Eve told their children about it. The whole earth must have known about it. I think the tree of Life was there probably up to the flood. Or at least a long time after the garden.
I did some research some yrs ago and came the opinion that the flood occurred about 7000 BC. Later in going over my OT survey notes I was absolutely astounded to read Bro Freeman believed the flood occurred about 7000 BC. According to those notes he also believed there was about 10-15,000 yrs of history before the flood. An opinion I agree with.
There are lots of conservative scholars (like Bro. Freeman) (and conservative hangers on like me) who believe that the genealogies in the OT are not father son lists. That includes the list in Gen 5. Those who believe in a 6000 yr old earth generally take it from the genealogies. For lots of good reasons a 6000 yr old earth simply isn't credible. By that I mean scriptural reasons not science.
Us human beings or Living Souls as the bible calls us are just a just a pale shadow of the partly physical partly spiritual personality God created in the garden. Both male and female. God created us humans “a little lower than the angels” Ps 8/5
In other words concerning strength abilities intelligence we were created close to what an angel is capable of.
I think over the thousands of yrs of our history (and especially at the flood) we have lost most of the awareness of the spiritual side of our nature. Creation being made subject to vanity is a reference to this as well. Rom.8/20 To at least some degree Adam/Eve (and their descendants) would have been cognizant of and aware of the spiritual realm around them “and” the personalities living in it. Angels for eg.
Adam/Eve had kids and apparently lots of them because they all got mates somewhere. Cain himself established a city (or more probably imo) a civilization. There must have been thousands (or millions) living there. Over the 1000's of yrs of history prior to the flood there must have been many cities and civilizations established. Millions and billions of people. Think of the many civilizations that have risen and fallen just over the last 2000 yrs here in our post flood world.
Genesis 6/11-13 says the earth was filled with violence. Do we think that was just neighbors engaged in fisticuffs? Or is it as I think there were wars big and small. Cities countries civilizations fighting with each other. With all kinds of weapons. With the intelligence people had then some of those weapons must have been horrifying.
So to get to the point of the tree of life . . . It must have been a prize worth having. Eat of it and live forever. Never die! Probably the one prize in all the earth worth having! At least as far as sinful man was concerned. The knowledge of it was certainly in the earth.
I think it is entirely reasonable to assume that not only was the knowledge of it available but that sinful man tried to get to it. Why else block the way.
It is interesting that God set Cherubim there to guard it. Not just angels but cherubim. A personality with a higher class of strength intelligence and ability to guard it. And not just one but cherubim “plural” probably lots of them. And not just Cherubim plural but also some serious spiritual weapon. (the sword which turned every way) Obviously because just the Cherubim wouldn't have been enough.
So to keep sinful men from the tree God had to set very significant powerful spiritual beings and weapons for a defense. Man in his natural state working together on his home ground (the earth) with the weapons their civilization gave them must have been powerful indeed.
Is it beyond reason that sinful men would have lived and planned the same way we do today? Armies don't just up and head off to battle. There is much planning and thought that goes into it. By knowledgeable experienced intelligent people. My point is that I think there were great campaigns and wars designed to get to the tree and eat of it.
As I said it was a prize worth having. Obviously they never got to it though.
[Updated on: Sun, 08 October 2017 00:33]
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| | Topic: Spirit of Whoredoms |
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| Spirit of Whoredoms [message #12258] |
Sun, 17 September 2017 20:15 |
Mark L
Messages: 861
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
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Hosea 14/9 Who is wise and he shall understand these things. Prudent and he shall know them.
The book of Hosea was written mainly to show one truth. The Spirit of Whoredoms its effect causes and results. There is a lot in the book but I want to deal mainly with the Spirit of Whoredoms. But first some detail.
Hosea 1/2 sets the tone for the entire book.
Literally . . . The Land in whoring has whored
After Solomon's death because of his unfaithfulness the kingdom was divided. The northern 10 tribes became the kingdom of Israel and the southern 2 tribes (Benjamin & Judah) became Judah.
The two issues in the book are Israels (northern kingdom) unfaithfulness to God and the reasons for it. In the first 3 chap this is expressed through the prophet Hosea's life.
He is commanded to marry a “women of Whoredoms” (Hosea 1/2-3) Which he does in marrying a women named Gomer. I think this is referring to a women with an unstable heart which is later borne out when she leaves him and runs after other men. They have 3 kids all given prophetic names by God
1. Jezreel - Israel as a kingdom is going to cease
2. Loruhamah – He is not going to have any more mercy on them.
3. Loammi – They are no longer his people & he is not any longer their God
Eventually Gomer runs away after other men and God commands Hosea to go find her and bring her home. When he finds her she is apparently in some sort of slavery because he has to buy her back.
The final 10 chap of the book are a series of somewhat unrelated prophecies. Sometimes the Hebrew prophets would just throw all the information in and expect the reader to sort it out for themselves. This is the case with Hosea. Other of the prophets would carefully document everything sometimes with the day and month.
As I said Hosea just threw everything in and expected us to sort it out. There is some very deep stuff in this book and I don't pretend to understand it all. I do understand some though. As far as I am aware I have never heard anyone talk about a Spirit of Whoredoms. I looked around on the internet and couldn't find any significant info there either
One other significant detail about Hosea is his use of the the term Hesed. Or Chesed. Which is love or kindness expressed as part of a covenant. The point being that Israel may not be faithful but God is going to be. He is rejecting them and exiling them but because of his “Hesed” he is eventually going to bring them back. Hosea 3/4
Some yrs ago the saved members of my family (6 of us) started meeting weekly to pray for our family. We did so for several yrs. What I am sharing here came from what the Lord showed me in those times of prayer.
The book of Hosea is dealing with this one subject in the entire book.
Hosea 5/4
Hosea 4/12
KJV Sp. of Whoredoms
NIV Sp. of Prostitution
NASV Sp. of Harlotry
It was the cause of Israel and Judah's turning away from the Lord and shows Gods attitude toward it and its results. It should be said here that there is no relationship between this spirit and any kind of fornication or sexual activity. None whatsoever. It is entirely spiritual.
This spirit comes into a family / person / region / nation after God gives light & salvation and understanding and then the people backslide. This happened in my family. In the Welsh revival of 1905 my family got saved and eventually the family walked away from the Lord. Or they didn't go on living in the light they had. They didn't teach their children the ways of the Lord and eventually the door opened and this spirit came in.
When salvation and understanding of Spiritual things is given and not walked in or ignored or forgotten about in a nation or family or person eventually the door opens and this spirit comes in and eventually when it really gets a hold it prevents them from returning to the Lord.
John Wesley said in his comments on Hosea 4/12
. . . they have a heart ensnared in Whoredoms. It blinded and deceived them.
He phrased it that way because he understood it.
Ezek 16 is dealing with the same subject. Spirit of Whoredoms
2Thessalonians 2/9-12 in this vs you see the final stage of a spirit of whoredom expressed through Gods sovereignty ie . . . God shall send . .
Jer. 44 especially vs 15-19. completely deceived.
How does it work
Blinds their minds so they cannot see and understand. Believe a lie.
Interferes with the circumstances of their life so they don't hear the Gs word. Which will give them light. Or the parable of the sower. (hard ground/ wayside)
It takes away the strength of their heart so they cannot stand. Do not have the strength to resist or fight.
Turns their heart so they don't want to return to the Lord
It also has a human component Hosea 5/4 (they will not frame) & 11 Thess. 2/9-12-- (because they received not). There comes a point where the spirit will completely overcome the person and they are just too far gone to come back. Until that time the person can still by one means or another get back to the Lord if they really want to and persist.
I think this originally came into Israel in the later times of Solomon's reign. 1 Kings 11. It came into the nation and then fought tooth and nail to dominate. Because of Solomon's sin God divided the nation. The 10 northern tribes almost entirely forsook the Lord. Eventually going into the Assyrian captivity.
The southern tribe Judah (and Benjamin) took longer but eventually suffered the same fate with Babylon (and for the same reasons). The book of Hosea was written right at the time of King Ahaz. 2 Chron.28/22-23.
The spirit of Whoredoms is often found working with a spirit of witchcraft. Which is interesting because they are both doorkeeper or control spirits. Meaning they are a higher level of strength and intelligence and ability and have other spirits working for them.
Isaiah 57/3 literally . . . sons of the sorceress and she will commit whoredom.
11 Kings 9/22 Whoredoms and witchcraft s ( words in the bible are not put together by accident)
Nahum 3/4 This entire book is dealing with Gods judgment on Assyria which for a time ruled the entire OT world. This vs tells us why they succeeded.
Without going into too much detail it is quite interesting to me that my father with a family controlled by an ancestral spirit of witchcraft married a women with a family controlled by an ancestral spirit of Whoredoms. My mothers family forsook the Lord and it was the later generations that paid the price.
Some thoughts and characteristics of this spirit. Some of these are very strange but they are on the page so I'm including them. It should be said here that there can be other reasons for these problems. But these are in Hosea and the spirit of Whoredoms is one big reason why people have them.
1/ Chronic backsliding
2/ Hosea 4/6 You are unable to protect your children. This absolutely characterized my family. When I was a teenager my mother got saved and filled with the HS and started fighting against the devil with the result our entire family got saved.
Is there anything more tragic then being unable to protect your children? Ancient societies (and some today) even including King Solomon sacrificed their own kids to evil Gods. Why would normal ordinary people do that? Why would otherwise normal, understanding, supposedly intelligent people sacrifice their own children through abortion? And see nothing wrong with it!
3/ Hosea 4/3 Land will languish – no prosperity – diminish ordinary. I think it means the ordinary things in life. Money health kids do well etc.
4/ Hosea 4/3 Very interesting it says this . . . the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away. Odd? In Canada we have a province called Newfoundland. It joined our confederation in 1949. Before that it was a British protectorate. The entire NFL economy was built on the Cod fishery. The school system there was coordinated entirely by the Anglican and Pentecostal churches. Some yrs ago there was a strong move by the secular authorities to remove education from the churches. Well about that time the Cod completely disappeared. The Govt still isn't completely sure why. I think there is a direct connection.
5/ Hosea 4/7 Shame will cover you. Know anyone like that? It sure characterized my family.
6/ Hosea 4/11 Ezek. 16/30 Unable to stand strong in your life – take away your heart. Lots to say here. Says it several times throughout the passages.
7/ Totally unaware of evil in your life and being done to you until it is too late. A spirit of stupor. Unaware of what is going on around you until it is too late. You just don’t see.
8/ Hosea 4/5 I will destroy your Mother. I don't really understand this but it is there on the page.
Eventually when that spirit gets control.
God will withdraw his justice
Won’t requite wrong
Given over those hate you
Won’t protect the innocent
Barrenness in all your life
Lack of prosperity
Enemies not just hurt you - but pursue to destroy
There is lots more that could be said here about characteristics but this covers the basics. These things happen not because God is mad at people but they are spiritual laws. They are the activities of an evil spirit that get entrance into a persons life or family or country.
I think this spirit is a major force in our western world. All our countries of course but particularly America. It has had more light than any other nation outside Israel. And for all practicable purposes it has forsaken it all. Why spirit filled Christians think they can fight these principalities with secular courts and political power is beyond me.
The Holy spirit said by prophetic utterance through a prophet yrs back “that fighting the enemy (who is a spirit) with these weapons is like fighting an enemy tank with a sling shot.”
In my opinion this spirit is a major force in our western world and particularity America. And its going to get much much worse
Whoredoms and Witchcraft they go together in the bible. I believe they have not yet reached the height of their power (particularly in America) and they are controlled by even more powerful personalities. Spirits of Wickedness in high places.
One last point here.
Hosea 4/12 is there any difference between listening to their staff and the atheism all around us today. They look at the world around us and say their is no God. Solomon said the fool says there is no God
[Updated on: Fri, 15 June 2018 03:40]
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| | Topic: Unregenerate Israel and the Believer |
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| Unregenerate Israel and the Believer [message #8467] |
Fri, 28 October 2011 13:01 |
lesjude
Messages: 48
Registered: October 2011
Location: Camden, NY |
Member |
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God does not punish any nation for not supporting Israel. His heart is salvation, not judgment.
The devil does not do God's job and God does not do the the devil's job. This is where judgment begins, when it begins: 1 Peter 4:17-18 (New King James Version)
17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 Now
“ If the righteous one is scarcely saved Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?” BY "RIGHTEOUS" PETER IS REFERRING TO I COR 3:15 CHRISTIANS OF WHICH LOT IS A TYPE (SEE GEN 19). THE FOLLOWING SCRIPTURE IS THE HEART OF JESUS UNTIL JUDGMENT DOES COME: Luke 9:54-56 (New King James Version)
54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?”[a]
55 But He turned and rebuked them,[b] and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.”[c] And they went to another village. JEWS ARE GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE. HOWEVER THEY ARE UNREGENERATE SINNERS UNLESS THEY RECEIVE JESUS. MANY WHO CLAIM TO BE JEWS ARE NOT OF THE 12 TRIBES BUT 'CONVERTS'. I FIND NO NATION IN THE BIBLE THAT EVER WAS PLEASING TO GOD WHO SUPPORTED ISRAEL WHILE THEY WERE IN REBELLION AGAINST HIM. THE US GOVERNMENT IS GIVING ISRAEL THE MEANS AND ENCOURAGEMENT TO DESTROY MEN'S LIVES! ISRAEL HAS MORE SPIES IN THE US THAN ANY OTHER NATION AND SEVERAL HAVE BEEN CAUGHT. THEIR STATED GOAL IN FOREIGN POLICY IS TO WAGE WAR BY MEANS OF DECEPTION. ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD THERE IS STRIFE, ASSASSINATION, GENOCIDE LOOK FOR THE HAND OF MOUSSAD. THE IDF ATTACKED A US SHIP, THE LIBERTY, KILLING 34 AND WOUNDING 173 IN 1967 WITH JETS AND TORPEDO BOATS KNOWINGLY, FOR THEIR OWN PURPOSES. HERE IS SCRIPTURE THAT SPEAKS OF THOSE WHO FOUNDED AND CONTROL ISRAEL: Revelation 3:9 (New King James Version)
9 Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. THIS IS WHY THE BIBLE SAYS CHRISTIANS ARE TO DO THE FOLLOWING: BRING THEM THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM AND PROVOKE THEM TO JEALOUSLY BY LIVING AND DEMONSTRATING THE KINGDOM OF GOD (SEE MATT 5, 6 AND 7 MARK 16:17-18, AND MATT 10:7-8) AND PRAY FOR THE PEACE OF JERUSALEM WHICH IS CHRIST'S 2ND COMING. Religious Jews CANNOT live the heart of Christianity (Matt 5, 6 and 7) or do any part of Matt 10:7-8. The church provokes Jews to laughter with xmas, easter and religion. The devil is pleased to distract Christians from what God says to do, with partisan politics on behalf of unregenerate Israel along with the things the devil does to make it look like God is judging the US for not supporting Israel's world agenda. There are whole ministries wasting time doing this. Israel despises the US and thinks of the people as fools to be used. WHEN BAD THINGS HAPPEN ANYWHERE IT IS SIMPLY THE CONSEQUENCES OF A FREE WILL CHOICE TO LIVE IN THE DEVILS KINGDOM INSTEAD OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD. THE DEVIL IS A CRUEL KING. THESE CONSEQUENCES SHOULD NEVER BE SEEN AS GOD'S JUDGMENT. HIS JUDGMENT WILL COME SOON ENOUGH, BUT HIS HEART NOW IS SALVATION. IT IS TRUE THAT MANY WILL SEE THAT THE CONSEQUENCES OF 'FREE WILL' LIVING IS NOT A GOOD CHOICE AND SEEK JESUS. IN THE MEAN TIME WE NEED TO SEEK HEAVEN TO DO WHAT IT SAYS IN MATT. 10:7-8, MARK 16:17-18 AND LIVE MATT 5, 6, AND 7.
I will add that the creation of Israel, just as Christ death, was God's perfect will. The Jews (who are not ethnic Jews but converts) meant the founding of Israel for their own evil purposes. So far they are doing VERY well!
[Updated on: Fri, 28 October 2011 13:05]
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| | Topic: How "user friendly" is Jesus? |
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| How "user friendly" is Jesus? [message #8458] |
Thu, 27 October 2011 23:06 |
lesjude
Messages: 48
Registered: October 2011
Location: Camden, NY |
Member |
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Jesus is compassionate. He demonstrates the the love of His Father throughout the gospels by healing ALL that came to Him, setting people free from demons, raising the dead, and feeding the hungry with His word. The all inclusive purpose of His ministry was to teach, preach and demonstrate the Kingdom Of God by the power of the Holy Spirit; and raise up disciples to do the same. This has NOT changed, but it seems the current meaning of discipleship has.
Jesus ALWAYS rebuked unbelief in His disciples at every occasion. Let us look at them.
1. His disciples were EXPECTED to have faith in what Jesus said, not whine.
Mark 4:35 (New King James Version)
Wind and Wave Obey Jesus
35 On the same day, when evening had come, He said to them, “Let us cross over to the other side.”
37 And a great windstorm arose, and the waves beat into the boat, so that it was already filling.
38 But He was in the stern, asleep on a pillow. And they awoke Him and said to Him, “Teacher, do You not care that we are perishing?
40 But He said to them, “Why are you so fearful? How is it that you have no faith?”[a]
2. Peter demonstrated faith when he was the only one that got out of the boat to walk on the stormy sea.One would think Jesus would cut Peter some slack. It was not the case. It should be noted that Jesus did NOT let Peter drown and it is obvious as to why. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”[a] "saved" (sozo) means a LOT more than having ones sins forgiven. This is what Jesus was demonstrating!
Matthew 14:30-31 (New King James Version)
30 But when he saw that the wind was boisterous,[a] he was afraid; and beginning to sink he cried out, saying, “Lord, save me!”
31 And immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and caught him, and said to him, “O you of little faith, why did you doubt?”
3. Jesus expected His disciples to heal and cast out demons. NOTHING has changed! Note His rebuke for their unbelief. Perverse means corrupted, turned aside. In this case turned aside or corrupted from the meaning and use of FAITH to set people free from powerful demons. HAVING COMPASSION!
Matthew 17:16-17 (New King James Version)
16 So I brought him to Your disciples, but they could not cure him.”
17 Then Jesus answered and said, “O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me.” THE DISCIPLES CHOSE NOT TO BE OFFENDED AND AS A RESULT RECEIVED INSTRUCTION FROM JESUS. THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR A TEACHABLE HEART. IT WILL SAVE ONES LIFE. (see King David)
4. Jesus spoke the Words His Father gave Him. His disciples were EXPECTED to believe them, not try to put their own "spin" on things or be offended.
60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.
65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.” WHAT HE JUST TOLD THEM IS THEY ARE LEAVING BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT BELIEVE ANYWAY. IT DOES NOT MENTION A CHOIR OF ANGELS SINGING "JUST AS I AM" OR "ALMOST PERSUADED" REPEATEDLY. OR USING MIND CONTROL METHODS TO GET PEOPLE TO COME TO THE ALTER. THE RESULT IS DOUBTFUL CONVERTS OR AN ALTER CALL EVERY SUNDAY THAT CHANGES NOTHING IN PEOPLES LIVES.
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
NEXT JESUS CHALLENGES THE 12 THAT ARE LEFT. NOTICE NONE OF THEM SAID, THAT WAS NOT 'LOVE' JESUS!
67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
BY FAITH THEY HAD HIS WORD SETTLED, EVEN IF THEY DID NOT FULLY UNDERSTAND, WHICH THEY DID NOT. IT SEEMS JESUS JUST LOST MOST OF HIS 'CHURCH'. HE IS NOT INTERESTED IN NUMBERS, OR IS HE 'USER FRIENDLY' TO GET AND KEEP THEM.
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”[a]
5. Let us look at corporate unbelief. Christian leaders and Christians who think they know Jesus are the cause of a culture of unbelief in the churches. It is difficult to overcome.
Matthew 13:55-58 (New King James Version)
55 Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses,[a] Simon, and Judas? 56 And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?” 57 So they were offended at Him.
But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house.” 58 Now He did not do many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
6. The disciples experienced a devastating trauma when Jesus was crucified. However He still expected them to believe the report:
Isaiah 53:1 (New King James Version)
1 Who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? DISCIPLES ARE TO BELIEVE THE REPORT CONCERNING SALVATION, ALL OF IT, BY FAITH, IN SPITE OF ANY NEGATIVE CIRCUMSTANCES OR EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY.
10 She went and told those who had been with Him, as they mourned and wept. 11 And when they heard that He was alive and had been seen by her, they did not believe.
12 After that, He appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went into the country. 13 And they went and told it to the rest, but they did not believe them either.
14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.
THE NEXT SCRIPTURES DEMONSTRATE THAT SEEING DOES NOT MEAN BELIEVING ANYTHING IN ONES HEART!
38 And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
40 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.[a] 41 But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” 42 So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb.[b] 43 And He took it and ate in their presence.
EVEN AFTER ALL THIS 'SEEING' THE DISCIPLES WERE CONSIDERING LEAVING THE MINISTRY AND GOING BACK TO FISHING. NO HEART FAITH!
2 Simon Peter, Thomas called the Twin, Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zebedee, and two others of His disciples were together. 3 Simon Peter said to them, “I am going fishing.”
They said to him, “We are going with you also.” They went out and immediately[a] got into the boat, and that night they caught nothing.
WHAT EVENT HAPPENED TO CHANGE THEM FROM HEAD FAITH TO HEART FAITH, WHICH BROUGHT TO LIFE ALL THAT JESUS HAD TAUGHT THEM FOR THE PAST 3 YEARS THEY HAD BEEN WITH HIM?
John 14:17 (New King James Version)
17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
John 16:13-14 (New King James Version)
13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
NOW THE EVENT AND WHO IT IS FOR:
Acts 2:4 (New King James Version)
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:38-39 (New King James Version)
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
7. HERE IS THE MAJOR POINT JESUS ALWAYS TAUGHT AND REINFORCED IN EVERY SITUATION IN BOTH OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS, AND WHY HE DID IT:
Hebrews 11:6 (New King James Version)
6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
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| | Topic: If It Be Thy Will? |
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| If It Be Thy Will? [message #8455] |
Thu, 27 October 2011 22:19 |
lesjude
Messages: 48
Registered: October 2011
Location: Camden, NY |
Member |
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Can Christians receive a yes by faith to prayer if the request is contrary to the latest charismatic teaching from the Father's heart, opposed by all the elders; they are called names, told no, and told to go away? You make the call.
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| | Topic: Whose Father is it? |
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| Whose Father is it? [message #7777] |
Sat, 23 April 2011 15:05 |
Mark L
Messages: 861
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
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The question is . . .
Is the Father of Jesus the Allah of the Muslims. A related question would be "Is the Father of Jesus the one the Jews worship". Christianity Today had an editorial on the Muslim question some time ago. I looked for it but couldn't find it. Their conclusion was that he isn't. I would agree. God has a triune nature but the God we worship is Jesus. The visible representation of the triune God is Jesus.
To my mind even asking the question is indicative of the days we live in. Once you start compromising even a little on important issues like this where does it stop.
The writer here is part of the evangelical establishment. A born again christian. He teaches in the rarefied heights of Yale university. I would agree with the thrust of his book that we need to find common ways of living with our Muslim neighbors but you don't do it by compromising on Jesus. Peter said Acts 4/12 that Jesus is the only way.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2011/april/muslimschrist ianssamegod.html
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| | Topic: New manuscript findings... |
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| | Topic: Mark Chapter 1 |
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| Mark Chapter 1 [message #7690] |
Fri, 04 March 2011 02:10 |
JWBTI
Messages: 253
Registered: March 2007
Location: Ohio |
Senior Member |
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14Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. Mark 1:14-15 (KJV)
It has been over 2000 years sense Jesus spoke those words.
How do we define this passage ?
The time is fulfilled ?Does this mean…?
The completion of prophecy…Or
The completion of a time span ?
Or Both ?
The Kingdom of God is at handDoes this mean…?
The Eternal everlasting visible Kingdom is at Hand (close by-near in time) or
Does it mean that Jesus is near to us, personally as in walking close to us daily
Or Both ?
Repent ye and Believe the Gospel !
I am so Glad that Jesus made this simple to understand !
Repent: Change your mind…Let His mind be in us..
Believe: Trust !
The Gospel: The Words that He Spoke (Old and New)
Ron
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| | Topic: Faith or Desire |
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| Faith or Desire [message #7363] |
Tue, 21 September 2010 19:03 |
grandom
Messages: 404
Registered: October 2007 |
Senior Member |
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Is it faith or is it desire?
We can desire any of the thousands of promises in the word. Does that entitle us to get them?
Jesus desire is that all these promises are ours. Does that mean we will get them?
Can we hinder and actually nullify the promises of God?
Consider Ex 3:17 And I have said, I will bring you up out of the affliction of Egypt unto the land of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, unto a land flowing with milk and honey. God promised it. Did it happen? Of all the hundreds of thousands of His children, only two entered in. Why? They saw the giants in the land and did not BELIEVE what God had said.God`s desire was for all His people to enter in. Only two did.
Mat 9:27 And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou son of David, have mercy on us. It doesn't tell us how long they cried but there cries did not heal them Mat 9:28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord. Their crying didn't heal them. It was their faith.
Mat 19:26 says that all things are possible with God. Mat 12:22 qualifies that "All things believing you shall receive."
God addresses unbelief in numerous places but in James 1:6-7 says ask without wavering for unbelieving person will receive nothing.
Mark 6:5-6. Jesus couldn't do any mighty works because of their unbelief.
Faith or desire. What are you using for your giants in the land?
Be blessed.
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| | Topic: ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS |
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| ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS [message #7343] |
Thu, 16 September 2010 15:27 |
grandom
Messages: 404
Registered: October 2007 |
Senior Member |
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Onward Christian Soldiers
Another old hymn I was reflecting on the other day. You don't hear much of anything about warfare or fighting a good battle in sermons or music of today. I believe that most (professing) Christians of today haven't a clue about being at war with the devil. I hate to preface people by saying professing Christians each time but so many today claim to be Christians and their lives reflect every thing but living as Christ lived.
The devil doesn't spend to much time warring with professing Christians. They really aren't causing him any problems. Paul exhorts Timothy in 1 Tim 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare. 1 Tim 6:12 he is urged to fight the good fight.
May I submit that if you are doing the will of the Father Brothers and Sisters you are in a warfare. I`m sure I don't have to remind you of that fact. We are all in a war with eternal consequences.
I would that all read again eph 6. God has given us the weapons we need to fight and remember he is a defeated foe.
I encourage and exhort, be strong in the Lord. Eph 6:14 stand therefore. Watch and pray.
Be Blessed
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| | Topic: The New Testament Pattern |
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| The New Testament Pattern [message #7078] |
Sat, 08 May 2010 04:37 |
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william
Messages: 1468
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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Actually the "Biblical Pattern".
As the Lord established Himself in the new nation of Israel with the
giving of the Law, it becomes obvious that His plan for mankind is being
unveiled. Interestingly enough He chooses an unlikely and relatively
small group of people to make Himself known. Without their obedience His
message would not proceed very far. Apart from the tables of stone
written with His own finger there wouldn't be a whole lot of evidence of
God's plan if the recipients hadn't taken some responsibility to both
document and preserve His words for future generations.
That revelation could be further compromised by the lack of morality, by
those to whom the Word had come. Fortunately the written record survived
despite the moral failings of His chosen people. Even the lack of
faithfulness on the part of trustees was documented and preserved so that
future generations could see aspects of God's grace and forbearance that
might otherwise be hidden.
Fast forward to the New Testament. The Jews have neglected their
responsibility to bring the light of the good news to the gentile nations
and have become introverted. In the span of a few years they reject God's
renewed attempt to restore their prominence as bearers of His revelation
which turns out to be a blessing for the gentiles. They officially reject
God's offer of salvation obtained through the suffering and death of His
own son.
God had once again offered to them the responsibility of bearing His
standard to the world and in the pages of the Book of Acts you seen them
time and again rejecting His offer.
They wanted to continue to be focused upon those things that seemed to
make them unique-adherence to an outward conformity to a myriad of
minutia. They saw the details but failed to see the grand mosaic that was
spread before them. Paul finally has had enough of their rejection and
says: (Act 28:28) Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of
God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
They did indeed hear the message of the Gospel and proceeded to spread it
far and wide.
Fast forward to the present day. As gentiles we were given the same
responsibility to spread the good news by offering God's salvation to all.
This has been done to some degree throughout Church history with various
levels of success. The main problems that continue to hinder the
successful propagation of that message is the same problems that the Jews
encountered-pride and sin. (Obviously pride IS SIN!)
We spend our days thanking God that we are not like that sinner, and just
like the Pharisee we wrap ourselves in the knowledge that we are "the
elect". Oh the simplicity of the Gospel! Love God with our whole heart
and love our perishing neighbors as we love ourselves!
None of us know how much time we have left to spread His message;
shouldn't we spend the rest of our days doing just that? How much time
have we wasted as professional critics; critiquing this group or that
group, instead of preaching the good news of our common salvation, and the
blessings derived from following His Word?
As far as I can tell the first attempt to mold the Church into the failed
methodology of the past came from the Judaizers who wanted to burden the
growing-by-leaps-and-bounds Church by preaching: You must be circumcised
to be saved! We have our own variations but the message is the same-- Do
This, or Don't do that, or you can't be saved. Shouldn't we have the same
sort of answer to those false messages as did the early church? Is the
Lord's arm so short as to be unable to save without us trying to help Him
produce good works in the people He chooses?
The message then is the same message today--preach the Good News of the
Gospel and the Holy Spirit will come as a refining fire to purge the dross
from the midst of His people. He has His work and we have ours, let us
not become as the Jews became-so introverted as to be unable to perceive
God's plan for the world. They failed miserably and we will fail too...
unless we learn the lessons that have been clearly set before us.
Blessings,
William
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| | Topic: Worship is a Verb |
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| Worship is a Verb [message #2015] |
Wed, 04 June 2008 03:22 |
jisamazed
Messages: 170
Registered: January 2008
Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
Senior Member |
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"...Yet a time is coming, and now has come, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. For God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." John 4:23-24
I've read and heard many different comments from former "faith message" people over the past year. Regardless of their perspectives on their experiences, I have noticed that there is one consistent positive comment that people have made: they really miss the way we would worship the Lord in church. It was heartfelt, spontaneous and fervent. On one hand, we were not bound to strict litergy and hymns only out of hymnbooks. On the other hand, it was not showy and artificial and self-absorbed. The beautiful melodies we used to sing were often written to scripture, and we have memorized passages based on those songs (remember Psalm 100 or Isaiah 41:10?). It was not about how slick or smooth the instrumentation was, nor did we showcase fancy guitar riffs. The Holy Spirit might lead guitar player to play skillfully like the Psalm says, but that was not our focus. We could sing loud (hopefully in tune), we could sing soft, we could clap, dance for joy, raise our hands, kneel (once people got freed up), pray, wait for the gifts of the Spirit to flow, etc...
I miss that. I think a lot of us miss that. The church that I am currently a part of has similar freedom, and in some ways even more, but I cut my teeth on the "faith" group. That way of worshipping the Lord in church became a part of my spiritual DNA.
Robert Weber wrote a book in the late eighties called, "Worship is a Verb." I never read the book, but the title speaks volumes. It caught my eye at a bookstore one day, and I was taken aback by it. As I thought about it later, I realized that he is right. Worship is always a verb in the Bible, never a noun. There is no such thing as "the worship". It is what you do. It is not this thing that we evaluate and judge and decide that this church has it and that one doesn't. We just do it. We are to focus on our risen Lord and not pay attention to whether or not others are doing things "just right". If you are worshipping the Lord with other Christians and they sing hymns out of a hymnal, join them and do it with all your heart, even if you feel like you can't raise your hands because of the hymnbook. Maybe you can it aside and raise them anyway. If there is a set liturgy, make the most out of it and worship the Lord wholeheartedly like Wigglesworth did when he visited the Anglican church. God's children are at many different places in their journey to heaven, and he meets them where they are, even if they are stuck in liturgy land. Yes, he loves us too much to leave us there, but our job is not to judge the way others worship, but rather to give Him our best wherever we are. Maybe people will follow our example. Maybe we will learn something.
It is always important that a church be open for the Holy Spirit to move and do something unexpected. He likes to interrupt the program. We sometimes had our own liturgy in the faith camp: a couple fast songs, then some slow, quiet songs, a time for some utterance gifts, a testimony or two, an "I confess such and such...", maybe another song or two, and usually a song about the blood of Jesus before the teacher came to the pulpit. If we were so set in that order that we could not follow the Holy Spirit to do something different, we were no different than Anglicans or Baptists or Reformed or whatever else that had their own set way of of doing things.
Even if you are in a fellowship that does not function in the gifts of the Spirit (not just the utterance gifts) during church, worship him fervently, anyway. Whatever you do, do with all your heart to the Lord. That is what He desires from us when we worship Him. It is what you do. Do it simply because He is worthy of it, regardless of what the people around you are doing or are not doing.
"Worthy, so worthy are you, Lord; worthy to be thanked and praised and worshipped and adored..."
Amazed smitten astonished stunned floored blown away astounded shocked flabbergasted surprised wonderfully devastated awed shattered overwhelmed incredulous speechless sense of wonder at the love of God.
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| | Topic: THE UNIQUENESS OF JESUS |
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| THE UNIQUENESS OF JESUS [message #1140] |
Sat, 26 January 2008 18:17 |
DBH
Messages: 35
Registered: December 2007
Location: Auburn, Alabama |
Member |
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THE UNIQUENESS OF JESUS
A new and unusual age of religious pluralism seems to be bursting upon the American scene. The cultural exchange facilitated by means of mass communication and transportation has brought with it a steady influx of strange religious ideas and practices, particularly from the East. Given impetus by the Hippie Movement (a revolt of American youth against traditional religious and social norms stemming from a disillusionment with the materialism of the age), this Eastern influence has made its presence felt in the rapid growth of interest in yoga, transcendental meditation, psychic experiences, and occultism of all forms. The West's increasing fascination with Eastern thought and practice is reminiscent of Isaiah's description of decadent, eighth century B.C. Judah: "Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished [Heb. 'They are full from the East'] from the east, and are soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers" (Isaiah 2:6). This explosion of eastern religious ideas upon American soil has won the acceptance of many within the scientific community, sparked a "human potential movement” bent on realizing personal godhood (remember the serpent's age-old lie: '...ye shall be as gods' [Gen. 3:5 “For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”]?), foisted a pantheistic world view upon minds that were largely, though imperfectly, conditioned by a Judeo-Christian one, and-most alarmingly-reshaped the thinking of some in Christendom to embrace a less-than-Biblical view of Jesus Christ.
The existence of religious pluralism has presented a new challenge to believers in America and has rendered necessary a bold reaffirmation of the UNIQUENESS OF JESUS. Is our Lord to be regarded merely as a highly proficient guru in a long line of Eastern adepts or is He, as the Scriptures declare Him to be, God in the flesh? Is faith in Jesus Christ the only way of salvation, or is Christianity merely one way among many religious paths that share a common essence and which ultimately lead to the same destination? In what sense is the Biblical teaching concerning the resurrection of Christ and the believer unique and superior to the oriental concept of reincarnation and eventual absorption into the "Universal Soul"? These questions, and others, must be satisfactorily answered if we, as conscientious believers, are to "keep the FAITH" (2 Timothy. 4:7 “I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith”) and effectively repel the influence of the pagan religions of the Orient.
Almighty God-Not Just Another Guru
From Islam to Hinduism and from Buddhism to Baha'ism, the religions of the East are united in their contention that Jesus Christ is not uniquely Divine. Dr. Hobart E. Freeman, distinguished author and Bible scholar, has written concerning Baha'ism's attitude toward Jesus: "He was not unique, according to Baha'ism. He was a prophet, but only one of many whom God has sent into the world at certain times to witness to their generation. Christ was the prophet of the Christians, as Moses was the prophet of the Jews. Others were such religious leaders as Mohammed, Zoroaster, Buddha, and Confucius." (Hobart E. Freeman, Every Wind of Doctrine, (Warsaw, IN: Faith Ministries and Publications, 1974), p. 74.) Such a deluded evaluation of Jesus is characteristic of devotees of the drug culture, Hinduism, Christian Science, Unity School of Christianity (falsely so called), Mind Science, yogis, etc., and is increasingly conditioning the mindset of Western civilization. No longer a bastion of conservative Christianity, the West is increasingly looking Eastward for spiritual direction and is, in the process, losing its appreciation for the unique and absolute Deity of Jesus Christ.
Despite, however, this alarming trend, the Bible is unflinching in its declaration that Jesus Christ is, in fact, God (e.g., John. 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”). To deny this Biblical testimony to the absolute Divinity of Jesus Christ is to strike at the very foundation of Christianity, which is squarely built upon the understanding that God has assumed humanity for the purpose of suffering and dying as the sacrificial Lamb of God (1 Timothy 3:16 “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”; Hebrews 2:9, “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.” 14 “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;”; John. 1:29 “The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away {beareth} the sin of the world.”; 1 Corinthians 5:7 “Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed {is slain} for us:”). In fact, it is the Divinity of Jesus that gives His sacrificial death its saving power; for the blood of a mere man, being sinful can not save from sin! (Romans 3:23 “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”), By virtue of the virgin birth, God side-stepped the universal stain of original sin and assumed a real, though sinless, humanity. (Isaiah 7:14 “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel”; Matthew 1: 22&23 “Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”) It was in virtue of His unique person (simultaneously both Divine and human), that He could offer Himself as a sinless sacrifice dying on the Cross in our stead (1 Peter 2:24 “Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.”). This is why the apostle Paul could refer to Christ's shed blood as the very blood of God: "...feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood" (Acts 20:28 “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.”). A denial of the Deity of the Lord Jesus is therefore a repudiation of the saving power of His sacrifice, without which men everywhere are doomed to the torments of eternal punishment (Mark. 16:16b “but he that believeth not shall be damned.”; John 3:36 “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”). If one refuses to believe that Jesus is the great "I Am" (Exodus 3:14 “And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.”) of the Old Testament then he will certainly die in his sins (John 8:24 “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”). It is therefore no small matter when men begin to think of Jesus as somehow less than Divine, as do the Cults, Liberals, and all Eastern religions. In attempting to rob Jesus of His unique Divinity men tamper with the truth of God's Word, and expose their souls to grave peril.
THE WITNESS OF THE WORD OF GOD
If we are to rescue the Biblical concept of Christ's unique Divinity from the pluralistic religious influences that are presently molding the mind set of contemporary society, we must recover what the Scriptures plainly teach concerning this important subject. The following should serve to illustrate the wealth of undeniable Biblical evidence pointing to the absolute deity of Jesus Christ:
JESUS: UNIQUELY AND ABSOLUTELY DIVINE
EXPRESSLY DECLARED TO BE GOD:
John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
John 20:28 “And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.”
Romans 9:5 “Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.”
Philippians 2:6 “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Titus 2:13 “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;”
1 John 5:20 “And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Isaiah 9:6 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
1 Timothy 3:16 “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
Hebrews 1:8 “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.”
CREATOR AND SUSTAINER OF THE UNIVERSE:
John 1:3 “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”
10 “He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.”
Colossians 1:16-17 “16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. ”
Hebrews 1:2-3, 10 “2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:”
THE OBJECT OR WORSHIP:
Hebrews 1:6 “And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten {unique} into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.”
Matthew 14:33 “Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.”
28:9 “And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.”
John 20:28 “And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.”
EXERCISING THE DIVINE PREROGATIVE OF FORGIVENESS:
Mark 2:5-7 “5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?”
Colossians 3:13 “Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel {complaint} against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.”
JESUS: THE ONLY WAY, OR ONE WAY AMONG MANY?
"...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."(John 14:6).
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;” (1 Timothy 2:5).
Due to the current drive to develop dialogue between major world religions in the interest of world peace, the message of the above-mentioned passages, which have been historically interpreted as asserting explicit faith in Jesus Christ as the only way to salvation, is being increasingly questioned. Here again, the pressure to formulate a "pluralistic theology," so as not to offend or alienate worshipers of other religions, has been keenly felt by both Catholic and Protestant alike.
It seems as though modern man, with his obsessive aversion to religious intolerance and his frequent dislike of those who claim to know the truth (contra John 8:32 “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”; 1 Timothy 2:4 “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”; 1 John 4:6 “We are of God:[ he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.”), is intent on re-interpreting Christianity in an effort to embrace adherents of native religion the world over. In so doing, he downplays the importance of Jesus' uniqueness and seeks for some common denominator around which world religions can rally. Despite this search for a "common essence" among world religions, Biblical Christianity remains essentially and unchangeably at odds with every religious alternative in that it unequivocally states that its message is God's final saving Word to mankind (John 1:17 “For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”; Hebrews 1:1 “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,”). Apart from a knowledge of and faith in Jesus Christ as Lord (Romans 10:9 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”), all men are doomed to an eternity of conscious torment (Mark. 16:15-16 “15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”) here we see that salvation is conditioned upon faith in the gospel and not upon dutiful observance of native religion; (cf. also John 3:36 “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”; John 8:24 “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”; John 14:6 “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”; Romans 1:16 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”; 2 John 9 “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.”).
In addition, it is well to remember that Christianity did not begin within the social context of a religious vacuum. The apostles of our Lord Jesus encountered a largely unsympathetic world teeming with varying religious sentiments, as is attested by the Ephesian mob's hysterical cry "Great is Diana of the Ephesians!" and by the various objects of worship that dotted the landscape of religious Athens (Acts 19:28 ”And when they heard these sayings, they were full of wrath, and cried out, saying, Great is Diana of the Ephesians.”; 17:22-23,29 “ 22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. 23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions {gods that ye worship}, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.”). Theirs was -as ours is- an age of religious diversity. And yet in the very midst of this pluralistic environment these servants of God were bold to declare that God wanted Gentiles to "turn from these vanities unto the living God" (Acts 14:15 “And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:”)
Can one honestly imagine the Apostle Paul, who traversed sea and land to proclaim the glad tidings of salvation in Christ, seeking some common bond between the gospel and the gross idolatrous religion that was the order of his day? Even to ask such a question is to expose the absurdity and sheer nonsense of seeking to develop dialogue with the pagan religions of the world! To those searching for sure salvation our response must ever be, as was Paul's: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved..." (Acts 16:31)
There is, moreover, another consideration that points to an irreconcilable conflict between Christianity and other "faiths." In citing the very commissioning words of the resurrected Jesus, Paul reveals the motivating purpose of his apostolic mission to the Gentiles as being: "To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me " (Acts 26: 18). Plainly, the apostle, as did his Master, considered the Gentile world to be groping in a satanically induced darkness and in dire need of the forgiveness, spiritual inheritance, and sanctification that is only to be found in Jesus! Why else would Paul brave the perils of a heathen world to bring them a message that was so often offensive to their religious sensibilities? (2 Corinthians 11:26 “In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;”; 1 Corinthians 1:23 “But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;”) If steadfast devotion to their native religions was sufficient for salvation, why even bother to evangelize?
Obviously, an intelligent faith in Jesus as God and Savior is essential to salvation. Moreover, such faith is produced by hearing the gospel faithfully proclaimed by men sent from God. The inspired words of Paul, himself a champion of the UNIQUENESS OF JESUS, should forever settle the question of whether non Christian religions can be a way of salvation and serve to underscore the urgent need of telling a lost and dying world about Jesus: "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord [Jesus] shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how: shall they believe in him of whom they have not: heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach except they be sent? (Rom. 10:13-15a). No man comes to the Father except through Jesus (John. 14:6 “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”). Buddha, Mohammed, Hinduism, or any other religious alternative will simply not suffice--ye must be saved by calling on the name of the uniquely divine Son of God.
Resurrection, Not Reincarnation
Reincarnation is (transmigration-rebirth as an animal, plant or insect is a broader term. See Hobart Freeman, Every Wind of Doctrine (Warsaw, IN: Faith Ministries and Publications, 1974). p.229.), the erroneous belief that all men are involved in a series of rebirths into successive lives in which they fulfill the Law of Karma until they are (either through spiritual enlightenment or religious self effort) absorbed into a nebulous "World Soul," is a characteristic feature of Eastern religions such as Buddhism and Hinduism, and of certain cults (e.g., Theosophy, New Thought, and Unity School of Religion)
Such a concept, however, is fraught with unscriptural presuppositions. For one, the law of karma, upon which the alleged cycle of rebirth is based, is none other than an oriental version of "works-salvation " (see in refutation: Romans 3:20 “Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin”; Galatians 2:16 “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”; Ephesians 2:8-10 “8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained {prepared} that we should walk in them.” Titus 3:5 “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.”). Secondly, successive rebirth implies many earthly opportunities to attain salvation and is therefore in direct opposition to such passages as Luke 16:19-31 “19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.”; 2 Corinthians 6:2 “(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)”; and, most obviously, Hebrews 9:27, which reads: "...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" [emphasis mine]. Also, the dignity of human individuality is denied, since man is viewed as but an extension of an all embracing, impersonal force (a pantheistic concept of God) and could just as easily be reborn as an acorn, earthworm, or caterpillar!
In stark contrast, the Bible asserts the bodily resurrection of Christ (Matthew 28:6 “He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.”; 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 “15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory {hold fast} what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.”) and the eventual resurrection (or change for those who are still alive when Jesus returns) of every born-again believer (1 Corinthians 15:20-23, 52 “20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. :52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”; Philippians 3:21 “Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.”). The bankruptcy of Eastern thought is nowhere more apparent than at this crucial point. In place of the conscious and eternal existence of the soul in a glorified body like unto Christ's, it has substituted a dreary, unconscious absorption into an intangible something. Sadly, its adherents remain without substantial hope and without God in the world; the tombs of its venerated founders are unable to ever remotely suggest the expectation embodied in the angel's morning message, "He is not here: for He is risen, as He said" (Matthew 27:6).
Sandhill Bible Church
4505 Sandhill Rd.
Auburn, Al 36830
334-749-1062
Email: sandhillbiblechurch@bellsouth.net
Website: http://www.sandhillbiblechurch.org
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| | Topic: WHY EVERY BELIEVER Should speak with TONGUES |
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| WHY EVERY BELIEVER Should speak with TONGUES [message #1131] |
Thu, 17 January 2008 15:43 |
DBH
Messages: 35
Registered: December 2007
Location: Auburn, Alabama |
Member |
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WHY EVERY BELIEVER Should speak with TONGUES
"What is the value of speaking in tongues; to what extent, if any, will it enhance my spiritual life, empower my testimony and improve my ministry to the Lord's assembly?" These questions and others are not infrequently pondered by observers of what may be properly labelled "the spiritual phenomenon of the Twentieth Century"-- the great Pentecostal outpouring of the Holy Spirit. This spiritual movement, which began in earnest in the late 19TH Century and literally exploded in the early 20TH Century, has made phrases such as "baptism with or in the Holy Spirit" and "speaking with tongues" almost common parlance in the realm of theological discussion and has done much to awaken the sleeping masses to the reality, if not the validity, of that form of inspired utterance commonly called "tongues." (Acts 2:4 “And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”)
Frowned upon by churchmen as emotional gibberish and decried as the spontaneous outburst of individuals emotionally disturbed, it should come as no surprise that the practice of speaking in tongues has enlisted its fair share of enemies. Despite this opposition, however, conservative evangelicals have found it increasingly difficult to deny the reality of a practice that is thoroughly documented in Scripture, and have therefore chosen to reluctantly acknowledge the validity of speaking in tongues while carefully downplaying its value. Especially have they denounced the idea that speaking in tongues is for every Christian. I, for one, take exception to such a sour response and believe that when the pertinent Scriptures are examined with an unbiased heart, this cold toleration will change to a warm hearted approval of tongues as a form of spiritual utterance of immense value for every saint. So this humble tract is sent your way in the interest of the Truth, and with the sincere desire that, upon further examination, you yourself will join the happy throng who have come to realize in a personal way the reasons WHY EVERY BELIEVER SHOULD SPEAK WITH TONGUES.
A Telltale Token
"But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy..." (Acts 2:14-18).
It was Pentecost, 30 A.D., and Jerusalem buzzed with teeming throngs of the pious who ascended to the "city of the Great King" to observe the pilgrimage Feast of Weeks. But this Pentecost was to be extraordinary; it was destined to be the day when a huddled band of one hundred and twenty Galileans, believers in the crucified but resurrected Jesus of Nazareth, were to become a "habitation of God by the Spirit" (Ephesians 2:22 “In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”). The stage had been set by long days of prayer and supplication (Acts 1:14 “These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.”), days of expectation and hope, as the tiny band, unnoticed by the world, eagerly awaited the "promise of the Father" (Luke 24:49 “And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.”). And then it happened. The sound of a forceful gust of wind filled the house where they were sitting, and they saw mysterious tongues as of fire distributed to each of them. In the awe of that moment, they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues.
As the rumor of what had happened spread, a curious but startled crowd gathered and, perplexed by the remarkable scene, enquired as to its significance? In response to their enquiry, the Apostle Peter announced with holy fervor and evident fire: "This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; and it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God. I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh..." (Acts 2:16. 17a). The Spirit had descended. The promise of the Father had arrived, heralding the dawn of a new epoch in the Divine economy. The church, predicted by Jesus (Matthew 16:18 “And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”), was birthed in the glory of a moment cloaked in power. And significantly, God had chosen to announce the arrival of His Spirit with the telltale token of tongues.
It was, in fact, this supernatural utterance in languages unlearned by the speakers that prompted Peter as the apostolic spokesman to announce the arrival of the Holy Spirit in partial fulfillment of Joel's prediction (Joel 2:28,29 “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.”).
"... This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel," replied Peter to the unenlightened charge that these men were "full of new wine." By so doing, this leading apostle underscored the evidential value of tongues as betokening the indisputable arrival of the Holy Spirit in the lives of these New Testament believers. Similarly, at a later period, he, along with some fellow Jewish believers accepted an eruption of tongues at Cornelius' household as conclusive proof that the Holy Spirit had fallen upon that band of Gentile believers:
"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" (Acts 10:44-47)
The key phrase in the above quotation is "For they heard them speak with tongues." The phenomenon of tongues, which characterized the initial outpouring of the Spirit in the Jerusalem upper room, was what convinced those of the circumcision (Jewish believers who were zealous for the law and therefore leery of Gentile inclusion) that these Gentiles had genuinely received the Holy Spirit. In a later rehearsal of the Cornelius episode to brethren in Jerusalem, Peter seems to establish an experiential link between the tongues of the Jerusalem outpouring and the Holy Spirit's work in Caesarea by recounting: "And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.” (Acts 11:15) (The Greek particle in this context means “just as,'' "even as''; it augments the force of the simple, thus emphasizing a commonality of experience between the initial Jerusalem outpouring and the work of the Spirit here in Caesarea.) Clearly, speaking in tongues is beginning to emerge, just as Jesus predicted (Mark 16:17 “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;”), as a sign following believers; and, as Peter plainly implies, as a supernatural display evidencing the reception of the Holy Spirit (cf. Acts 2:4 “And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance”; Acts 11:15,16 “And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.”; 19:1-6 “And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.”). This is reason number one why every believer should speak with tongues: it is the initial evidence of one's reception of the Holy Spirit. Nor should we expect to walk in the pathway of apostolic Christianity apart from this apostolic experience!
It is precisely at this point, however, that Satan beguiles the unlearned who are unaccustomed to making those subtle distinctions so essential to proper Biblical interpretation. For how many of these believers have rejected the insistence that all Christians should speak with tongues as the initial evidence of the Holy Spirit's arrival with an appeal to Paul's question in 1 Corinthians 12:30: "...do all speak with tongues?", thereby concluding that universal tongue-speaking for Christians is utterly out of the question? But does such an appeal actually prove their point? On the surface it might seem so, but a careful reading of 1 Corinthians 12-14, and indeed of all New Testament references to speaking in tongues, will point us to a consideration that they have over-looked-- and one that is absolutely vital to the discussion. It is simply this: The New Testament uses the phrase "speaking in or with tongues" in a fluid manner, sometimes denoting the inspired utterance in a language unknown to the speaker which signals the reception of the Holy Spirit, and at other times the charismatic gift of tongues whereby God seeks, in conjunction with the companion gift of interpretation, to communicate a message to His people. It is the all important context which determines which particular form is under review. In 1 Corinthians 12:28-30 “And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities {kinds} of tongues.
Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?”, for example, the context clearly reveals that it is the gift of tongues that is under consideration, not the sign of tongues which every believer can, and indeed should, express as a means of prayer and communion. Failure to make this distinction inevitably results in a confounding of things that differ, the obvious error of those who attempt to make a sweeping application of the form-specific reference in 1 Corinthians 12:30. Such an attempt thus reflects an over simplistic view of the phrase "speaking with tongues," which, as a fluid expression, may refer to more than one form of tongues-speech.
To illustrate this point, let us examine for a moment the experience of the church in Jerusalem. This assembly initially consisted of 120 men and women who received a powerful baptism with the Holy Spirit, and who each spoke with tongues as the sign or evidence that they had received the Spirit's in filling (Acts 2:4 “And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”). And yet, there is no Biblical evidence that this entire company possessed the charismatic gift of tongues which is generally used to communicate a message from God to His people and is to be accompanied by an interpretation in the native language of the Christian assembly. Paul could have addressed these believers in Jerusalem as he did the church at Corinth, "Do all speak with tongues [as the charismatic gift to communicate a message]?" and fully expected his rhetorical question to be answered with an inward "no" by the congregation, although each member prayed in tongues in his or her private devotional life.
To further illustrate this distinction, permit me to appeal to my personal experience as a pastor. The congregation (the adult element) I currently pastor consists of a company of tongue-talking believers (those who are baptized members), and yet perhaps no more than one of them presently has the charismatic gift to deliver divine messages to the congregation in tongues! Do they all speak with tongues? Certainly not in the sense of the gift of tongues; no, no more than the Corinthians did. But if you mean "do they all pray in tongues as a sign of the Spirit's presence in their lives?" The happy answer is a resounding yes! And my dear friend, so should you! So the appeal to 1 Corinthians 12:30 in objection to universal tongues-speaking for believers does not prove what the detractors would hope; it is simply a classic instance of confounding things that differ-all in an attempt to discredit a Pentecostal emphasis.
A Source of Spiritual Edification
A second reason why every believer should speak with tongues involves the immense spiritual up building that is the direct result of "praying in the Spirit." Jude is no doubt referring to the edificational value of tongues when he writes: " But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith praying in the Holy Ghost" (Jude 20).
Of course, there may be those who respond negatively to an identification of "praying in the Holy Ghost" with prayer in tongues, but those who are privileged to pray in this manner recognize that when they lift their voices in a language supernaturally inspired by the Holy Spirit they are, in the purest sense, "praying in the Holy Ghost. " This is readily apparent when one reflects on the fact that the individual who is praying in tongues is giving expression to words that originate independently of his own finite understanding (1 Corinthians 14:14 “For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.”), words which articulate, as humanly formulated ones seldom do, the very mind of the Spirit (Romans 8:26,27 “Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.”). Such an individual has been admitted into a special prayer channel, through which "mysteries in the Spirit" (1 Corinthians 14:2 William's Translation: "by the Spirit he is speaking secret truths") leave lips of clay and are borne heavenward. Is not such prayer, which expresses the "mind of the Spirit" and conveys "mysteries in the Spirit," the most undeniable and unadulterated form of "praying in the Holy Spirit"?
Jude 20 indicates that such prayer is a spiritual boon to the believer. I can attest from personal experience (over twenty years of praying in tongues) that "praying in the Spirit" is an invaluable means of fortifying one's faith, replenishing spiritual energies, and refreshing the weary soul. It is Divinely directed prayer in a spiritual dimension that makes a decided difference in one's over-all development in discipleship.
A Means of Rest and Spiritual Refreshment
Speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance is also the source of spiritual refreshment to which the prophet Isaiah refers when he writes: "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest ["this is the rest, quietness"] wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear" (Isaiah 28:11,12). It is to this prophecy that the apostle Paul refers in 1 Corinthians 14:21 as he writes, "In the law it is written, with men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. " It is as if the Lord were saying, "As an irrefutable sign, I will speak supernaturally in an unfamiliar language to a disobedient and gainsaying people, in an attempt to rouse them from their unbelief and usher them into My glorious rest." Has not God been doing just that through what is popularly and derisively known as the "Tongues Movement"? Is not the very Lord who invited the heavy laden to find rest beneath His easy yoke (Matt. 11:28-30 “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”), beckoning to this end-time generation, beset with information overload, dazed by the daily buzz of business, and ruffled with the hustle and bustle of religious activism, to come apart for a while and find invigorating and refreshing rest in the place of Spirit-inspired prayer? Could it be that some, despite the obvious length to which the Lord has gone, will not hear Him--opting instead to run the Christian course without the promised rest and finding themselves, in the end, "wearied and faint in their minds" (Hebrews 12:3 “For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.”)? How shall we escape the besetting burdens of age-end difficulties (2 Timothy 3:1 “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.”), the strain of increasing satanic opposition (1 Peter 5:8,9 “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”), and the widespread spiritual lethargy (Matthew 24:12 “And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.”) of the last days if we brush aside this "rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest"?
Without it, a believer's experience will lack the apostolic luster, the deep seated tranquility and the calm repose of the one who said, "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:" (1 Corinthians 14:18).
Fail-Proof Intercession
"Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God" (Rom. 8:26, 27).
Ah, and now we come to a vital and very practical reason why every believer should treasure the ability to pray supernaturally in the Spirit. According to Romans 8:26 “Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.”, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts (Galatians 4:6,7 “And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.”) to assist us in the monumental task of prayer. The Greek word used to depict the Spirit's help in this regard which, according to Thayer's Lexicon means "to take hold with another," thus implying that unaided human weakness is woefully inadequate when it comes to the vital issues of for what and how we ought to pray.
Who is the man or woman who cannot relate to the limitations of the finite human intellect when seeking to formulate prayers in accordance with God's will (1 John. 5:4 “For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”) and in a manner that is acceptable in His sight? Just consider for a moment the numerous questions associated with the question of effective intercession. For whom shall I pray--especially in a sin-cursed world wherein myriads are in dire need of Divine intervention? For what should I pray, since the basic need{s) of needy men is (are) often shrouded in circumstances that are but symptomatic (Mark 2:5 “When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.”)? In what manner and to what extent should I pray-should I pray at length against stubborn demonic strongholds (Daniel 9:3 “And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:”) or briefly in ejaculatory {brief utterance} faith (Mark 11:24 “Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.”)? Should I fast while I pray? The crucial answers to these questions are provided when we learn to rely upon the Spirit's assistance in the matter of prayer.
With the Spirit's indwelling presence, we will be prompted to pray, given utterance (Acts 2:4 “And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”) that adequately expresses the mind of God concerning the matter about which we are praying (Romans 8:27 “And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.”), and moved to sigh and groan with heart-felt emotion appropriate to the eternal issues that engage us in intercession. Who is sufficient for these things (2 Corinthians 2:16 “To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?”)? None but the competent Holy Ghost, Who maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God, thus insuring that all things work together for our good and His ultimate glory (Romans 8:27,28 “And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”).
Conclusion
In the foregoing paragraphs we have sought to examine the sign significance, edificational value, tranquilizing and helpful nature of speaking with tongues. Now it is time for you to make a decision. As a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, are you convinced that this outflow of tongues, occasioned by the reception of a personal Pentecost (Acts 2:4 “And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”), is of sufficient value to be a dynamic part of your Christian experience? Do you believe that your faith would be fortified, your spirituality furthered, and your testimony enhanced by praying in the Holy Spirit (Jude 20 “But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,”)? If you answer these questions in the affirmative, there would seem to be but one recourse for you--Receive ye the Holy Spirit with the initial evidence of praying in tongues! Then you will be able to pray as Peter, James, John, Paul and a host of other New Testament worthies prayed. And if we will purify ourselves as they purified themselves (2 Corinthians 7:1 “Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”; 1 Jn. 3:3 “And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.”), and labor for the souls of men as they did labor (1 Corinthians 15:10 “But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.”), we will not be far from the heartbeat of apostolic practice (Acts 2:42 “And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.”).
If your interest is sufficient to join me in prayer, please do so now: "Dear Heavenly Father, as a believer on your Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, I am convinced of the value of praying supernaturally in other tongues. But Father, I recognize that such a blessed capability is the result of receiving, as did the early disciples on the day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit. In Jesus Name I ask for the Holy Spirit now. I believe that He is in me now and begins to give me utterance in new tongues. In an act of childlike faith, with perfect confidence in your promise [Luke 11:13 “If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?”], I begin to lift up the sound of my voice, not in any language you know, but in the new language [Mk. 16:17 “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;”] which you have given me." At this point you should lift up your voice, expecting the Holy Spirit to form the words and syllables as you supply the sound of your voice. The Holy Spirit, unlike unclean spirits, will not forcibly usurp control of your vocal apparatus, moving your tongue, lips and jaw against your will. As you begin to speak by faith, determined not to utter a word in any language you know (since one cannot speak two languages simultaneously), the Holy Spirit will graciously begin to mould and shape the sound of your voice into the syllables and words of His choosing. As you act your faith, the assurance and manifold blessings of prayer in the Spirit will assuredly follow. (Mark 11:24 “Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.”; John14:14 “If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.”; 1 John 5:14,15 “And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.”).
For More information Contact:
Sandhill Bible Church,
4505 Sandhill Road.
Auburn. AL 36830
334-749-1062
Email: sandhillbchurch@bellsouth.net
Website: http://www.sandhillbiblechurch.org
[Updated on: Mon, 21 January 2008 17:45]
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| | Topic: SALVATION, HEALING, DELIVERANCE & MORE |
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| SALVATION, HEALING, DELIVERANCE & MORE [message #1101] |
Sat, 29 December 2007 20:59 |
DBH
Messages: 35
Registered: December 2007
Location: Auburn, Alabama |
Member |
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THE LOVEGREEN STORY
A C Valdez Sr., in his book Fire On Azusa Street, wrote
In those days—like today—skeptics loudly insisted that “the age of miracles is past.”
I could only answer, “It is past all right—past, present, and future—just as Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.” So many miracles of all varieties happened—cures of “incurables,” reversal of sin-filled lives, and strange, supernatural events that couldn’t have occurred by coincidence.
I shall never forget the astounding series of major and minor miracles that occurred to a Mr. Lovegreen, a hotel owner in San Bernardino and Riverside counties of California.
Thirty years before, he had been a New York-based salesman who, with his wife, had traveled many times from city to city across country.
One day he told her, “I’m going west again.”
She sighed, “Dear, I’m tired of traveling. We’ve done it so much. I just can’t take it any longer.”
That was not the response Lovegreen had expected, and he became upset and then stubborn.
“All right, if that’s the way you feel, stay,” he replied. “But I’m going anyway?’
Just like that, he walked out of her life and headed for California. Now, during that thirty years, he became an alcoholic, deathly ill and seemingly hopeless. One night he fell up against our San Bernardino mission door, which flung open. And there, lying on the floor, reeking of whiskey, was this large, once fine-looking man, hemorrhaging from his stomach.
When I reached him, he glanced up, hopelessness in his bloodshot, blue eyes. As more blood oozed from his mouth, he gasped.
What pity I felt for him!
“O, parson. Do something for me!”
Now the hemorrhaging stopped; he coughed, soon caught his breath and explained himself.
“Before my mother died, she prayed for me. While she was dying, she took me by the hand, looked into my eyes and said, “Son, I had hoped that, by this time, you would have given your heart to Jesus. Your mother would then have had the joy of seeing you a born again Christian. It seems I won’t have that pleasure. But, son, before I go, do me a favor. Put forth the effort to be a Christian and meet me in heaven. I’ll be watching for you through the eastern gate?”
“I said, ‘Yes, mother.’ Parson, what else could I say? But I confess to you, I haven’t tried”
The creases in the forehead of his ruddy face deepened in grave concern.
“A few hours ago, I came away from the doctor’s office. The lining of my stomach is gone—eaten out with alcohol. The doctor advised me; ‘Lovegreen, there’s nothing I can do for you now. Take my advice. Go right on drinking, because you won’t live long anyway. And if you’re drunk, you won’t know the difference.’ ”
Lovegreen’s watery eyes begged me as much as his voice.
“Parson, can’t you do something for me?”
“Yes, if you’ll promise to do something for me.”
“What’s that?”
Again he gasped for air, and blood oozed from his mouth.
“Come into the mission. Promise that you won’t leave until we pray through to God. Then you’ll have complete deliverance from alcohol, and I also promise that Jesus will heal your body and make you whole.”
As the path eased for an instant, he looked up at me with a flicker of hope.
“That’s the least I can do.”
I have dealt with many alcoholics, and their promises are often worthless. So I was still skeptical. Lovegreen slowly, painfully rose to his feet and followed me to the altar. In this mission, we had home-made, awkward-looking, heavy benches eighteen feet long. They served me well that night, because my wife, mother and I piled many of these benches against the back door.
Then we fell upon our knees and prayed. The spiritual battle was on. I don’t know how many times Lovegreen collapsed on the floor, but the devil spoke to me in no uncertain terms.
“Valdez, if you keep this man locked up in here, and he dies. you will be held for manslaughter?”
That sent fear racing through me. Unfortunately, what he had said was true. And I felt a terrible temptation to yield. But it wasn’t the voice of God. God doesn’t speak that way. The Lord says, “Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” So I turned and said— “Satan, get behind me in the Name of Jesus,” and the Spirit of the Lord rebuked the devil.
That was just the beginning of the story It was a night of struggle, and Lovegreen started screaming in an unearthly way. “Get those snakes off me!” he begged. He was having terrifying nightmares of delirium tremens. He thrashed and worked his hands to untangle snakes winding around his neck. “O, my God,” he cried, “Those witches and demons!”
We continued to pray with faith, through the night and into the early morning. At six o’clock, we were hoarse and exhausted but still holding on to God in his behalf.
By this time, he was beginning to flail his arms and crying out:
“Let me go! Open the door! Let me go!”
But I spoke sharply to him.
“You promised to stay until deliverance comes?”
A few minutes later, when my mother, wife and I were praying, the glory of God came down like a skyfull of light, filling the room. All of us looked up at the same time. A bright shaft of light focused on Lovegreen’s face, and he shouted, “I’m saved, I’m saved, I’m saved.”
Not only was he gloriously born of the Spirit of God, he was also healed in body. His stomach was so well he was able to eat a large beef steak. He no longer wanted alcohol.
An urge to be with his wife had gnawed at him off and on for thirty years and was part of the reason for his alcoholism. They had been divorced and, in a generation, had not communicated with one another. Like him, she had never remarried.
On one morning, she felt a powerful desire to travel to Los Angeles. She didn’t know why. Although a Christian, she did not realize that God was leading her. Her train stopped at San Bernardino, and a strange urge made her take a layover in that city
The railroad station was then at least three quarters of a mile from the heart of town, so she drifted down on the left hand side of the street, looking for a hotel.
At that very instant, Lovegreen felt a strong desire to go for a walk, and he started down the same side of the street.
The woman coming toward him looked familiar. He blinked his clear blue eyes. The woman saw him and squinted to make sure. The man coming toward her looked so familiar.
Suddenly they were face to face for the first lime in thirty years.
Lovegreen felt a surge of warmth. She was beautiful—snow white hair, still a young face. How could she be even more lovely than before?
Similar feelings stirred her.
They gazed into each other’s eyes momentarily, and the years between melted away. Then they literally flew into each other’s arms.
When I learned from them what had happened, I knew that this wonderful reunion was a story written and directed by the Holy Spirit.
A few days later, they asked me to marry them. It was a I privilege and an honor for me.
This was just one of the many flames of Azusa Street.
Website: http://www.sandhillbiblechurch.org
[Updated on: Thu, 17 January 2008 14:06]
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| | Topic: WHY I WOULD RATHER TRUST JESUS |
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| WHY I WOULD RATHER TRUST JESUS [message #1088] |
Mon, 24 December 2007 20:27 |
DBH
Messages: 35
Registered: December 2007
Location: Auburn, Alabama |
Member |
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WHY I WOULD RATHER TRUST JESUS
“Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth." Mark 9:23
As Jesus walked the shores of Galilee and made His way through its many villages, His power to cure sicknesses and diseases was a conspicuous and remarkable part of His ministry. Wherever He went, crowds of expectant sufferers were sure to throng Him, looking for the least opportunity to reach out and touch the One Who went about doing good, healing all that were oppressed of the devil (Acts 10:38 “How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.”). And those who exercised a humble faith were never disappointed. Time and again we read of healing successes summarized in sublime expressions like these:
Matthew 4:23 "And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people"
Matthew 4:24 "And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatic, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them"
Matthew 8:16 "When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: That It might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses"
Matthew 12:15 "But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all"
Luke 6:19 "And the whole multitude sought to touch him: for there went virtue out of him and healed them all."
Such passages are, however, much more than simply glowing episodes from a bygone era. Jesus Christ, as risen Lord, is just as willing and able to show Himself strong in the bodily healing of His children today, as He was in the days of His flesh.
During the mid-1970's William Harvey was a student at North East Junior College in Rainsville, Alabama. Muscular dystrophy had taken its toll leaving him with a stride that was less than full and making his ascent up a flight of stairs at the school complex a major task. One of his legs was also shorter than the other---that is, until he encountered the risen, healing Christ. It happened one day at a local Methodist parsonage. He was asked by a full gospel minister if he believed Jesus would grow his leg out to be equal with the other one. After responding in the affirmative, prayer was offered in the Name of Jesus, and the power of God grew his shorter leg to the proper length. His stride became normal and a flight of stairs was no longer the task it once was, simply because of Jesus' healing touch.
Exceeding Great and Precious Promises
The very fact that God promises supernatural, bodily healing in both Old and New Testaments should provide the believer with sufficient incentive to trust Jesus alone for the healing and health of his body. The direct, supernatural intervention envisioned in these Divine pledges is overwhelming evidence of God's will for the believer to cling trustingly to God's Word of promise for the gracious removal of all of his bodily ailments. Promises such as these literally beckon us to believe:
Exodus 15:26-- “And said. If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which Is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes. I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee." The Hebrew of this final phrase, "For I am the Lord that healeth thee” could be translated. "For I am the Lord your physician." thereby highlighting the exclusive right of Yahweh to relate to His people in the role of physician. God’s role as Healer is such an integral aspect of His relationship to His people that it actually becomes His very Name!
Exodus 23:25.26- "And ye shall serve the LORD your God, and he shall bless thy bread, and thy water: and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee. There shall nothing cast their young, nor be barren, in thy land: the number of thy days I will fulfil." Here, in no uncertain terms. God promises to remove sickness, miscarriage, and barrenness from His people in response to their faithful service.
Deut. 7:15 “And the LORD will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee: but will lay them upon all them that hate thee." Obviously, it is not the will of our Father In heaven that His children be burdened with the hideous maladies which so often plague the unregenerate world (Egypt).
Psalms 103:2.3- “Bless the LORD. O my soul, and forget not all his benefits: Who forgiveth all thine iniquities: who healeth all thy diseases." Here, in bold terms, we have God's undeniable promise to heal all our diseases just as surely as He promises to forgive all our iniquities. We can believe Him to do one with the very same confidence with which we believe Him to do the other. With such unmistakable pledges before us, and mind you, these are but samples drawn from a plethora of promises, the unwillingness on the part of those who claim to be God's children, to simply trust Jesus for all of their health needs Is little short of astounding.
God's Ample Provision For Our Healing
In addition, the fact that the Scriptures clearly teach the sufferings and death of our Lord to be a bearing of our bodily infirmities (Hebrew = our weaknesses) and sicknesses, Matthew 8:17 “That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.”), should likewise encourage the believer to place the totality of his trust in the Lord as his Healer. God has not only pledged Himself with a plurality of plain promises, He has also made ample provision for the fulfillment of those promises by grounding our healing squarely in the atoning sufferings and death of our Lord Jesus. This is the significance of such passages as Isaiah 53:4, 5, an Old Testament classic atonement reference, and its New Testament counterpart and commentary, Matt. 8: 17. Respectively, these passages read: “Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he {was] wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace {was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed"; and “That it might be fu{filled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare sicknesses."
These passages, coupled with 1 Peter 2:24 “Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.” stand out as beacons, beckoning the believer to view his healing as an accomplished fact. God has acted historically (2 Corinthians 5:19 “To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.”) in the person of Jesus Christ to reconcile as many as believe to a right relation with Him by bearing the imputed guilt of their transgressions and the bodily infirmities which overtook them because of sin, whether racial sin in Adam (Romans 5:12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”), or individual transgressions. Since the root cause for sickness, viz. sin, has been dealt with at Calvary, the effect---sickness---has likewise been dealt the death-blow.
The fact that healing is "in the atonement" removes the question of whether it is always God's will to heal his believing and obedient children from the realm of uncertainty into the land of blessed certitude. Once the believer reckons his healing a finished work (John 19:30 “When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.”), confessing that by Jesus' stripes he was healed, and carefully complying with the other Biblical conditions, it is but a matter of time until his bodily condition will conform to these inspired statements of God's Word. Furthermore, since God has already healed him, the believer need not beg and engage in vain repetition, as though there were need of overcoming some unspoken reluctance in God's mind concerning His will to do what He has already done in Christ. Viewing our healing as an accomplished fact thus becomes a basis for the bedrock conviction that what God has done for us in Christ at the Cross cannot be altered by the assaults of Satan against our body.
The Prescribed Means of Healing
Healing thus promised in the Bible and provided at Calvary is not mediated to the believer by medical but by supernatural means. It is by the laying on of hands (Mark 16:18 “They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”; Luke 13:13 “And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.”), the prayer of faith (James 5:14-15 “Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.”; John 14:14 “If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.”), the touch of faith (Mark 5:27-28 “When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.”), the Word of God (Proverbs 4:20-22 “My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings. Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart. For they are life unto those that find them, and health {Heb. medicine} to all their flesh.”; Psalms 107:20 “He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions”), and the supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:28 “And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities {kinds} of tongues.”) that God's people are relieved of the satanic oppression of sickness and disease (Acts 10:38 “How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.”).
In their bouts with physical infirmity, Job (Job 2:7 “So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.”: 42:10 “And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before. {Heb. added all that had been to Job unto the double}”), David (Psalms 30:2 “O LORD my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me.”), Paul (Galatians 4:13 “Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.”), Epaphras (Philippians 2:27 “For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.”) and Hezekiah (Isaiah 38:2 “Then Hezekiah turned his face toward the wall, and prayed unto the LORD,”) saw no need to resort to medical means. In fact, the only believer who is said to have sought medical relief was King Asa, who was promptly chastened for his unbelief (2 Chronicles 16:12-13 “And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians. And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign.”). Obviously, God was displeased with his distrust and his premature death is set forth In Scripture as a warning to those who would "trust in the arm of the flesh" (Jeremiah 17:5 “Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.”).
As we think of Israel, an entire nation without a health department or Divinely authorized medical Institution (although the less spiritual would resort to physicians, as did their pagan neighbors), to whom God was committed by covenant as Healer-Physician (Exodus 15:26 “And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.”), the alien nature of the medical alternative becomes increasingly apparent.
Did You Know?
In addition to the fact that the Medical Institution does not fall within the Biblical framework of God's prescribed means of healing, there are several considerations which make it a questionable route for a Christian:
The very rationale underlying all modern medicine represents a form of that "wisdom of man" (1 Corinthians 2:5 “That your faith should not stand {Gr. not be} in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.”) that is "foolishness with God" (1 Corinthians 3:19 “For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.”), and is therefore diametrically opposed to the Biblical teaching concerning the source and cure of sickness. His educational background and training predisposes even the most well-meaning doctor to trace every sickness to a natural cause---some bacterial microbe, virus or dangerous cell. The Scriptures, However, assert a spiritual (Satan---Acts 10:38 “How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.”; Luke 13: 11-16 “And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself. And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity. And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God. And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day. The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering? And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?”) and moral cause for every physical malady known to man. Romans 5:12 is quite clear in this regard, and attributes spiritual and physical death to the human race's disobedience in the person of its natural head and representative. Adam: "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." Simply stated, this means that the experience of death, and by implication, its precursor, deadly disease---are penal inflictions traceable to original sin. Psalms 107:17-20 also reinforces this concept by adding that personal transgression (again. a moral cause) can be the root cause of illness: "Fools because of their transgression, and because of their iniquities, are afflicted. Their soul abhorreth all manner of meat; and they draw near unto the gates of death. Then they cry unto the LORD in their trouble. [and] he saveth them out of their distresses. He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered [them} from their destructions." Thus, the rationale of modern medicine is radically at odds with the Bible and must therefore be discounted by the sincere believer as an unscriptural explanation of the cause and cure of sickness.
Furthermore, the medical profession routinely employs methods of research and treatment which the Bible squarely condemns. The desecration of the dead by the use of cadavers---corpses utilized in classes on surgery rather than being properly buried and provided the dignity of a decent funeral. Since the Scriptures view the corpse as representing the person, any indignity done to the body is viewed as an injustice to the person (1 Samuel 31:11-13 “And when the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead heard of that which the Philistines had done to Saul; All the valiant men arose, and went all night, and took the body of Saul and the bodies of his sons from the wall of Bethshan, and came to Jabesh, and burnt them there. And they took their bones, and buried them under a tree at Jabesh, and fasted seven days.”; 2 Samuel 21:8-10 “But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite: And he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them in the hill before the LORD: and they fell all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest. And Rizpah the daughter of Aiah took sackcloth, and spread it for her upon the rock, from the beginning of harvest until water dropped upon them out of heaven, and suffered neither the birds of the air to rest on them by day, nor the beasts of the field by night.” of course, I realize that some misguided souls actually donate their bodies for such desecration!).
Then there is the exposure of human nakedness (e.g., in the exams of gynecologists and in childbirth, physicals, etc.)---a practice which the Scriptures condemn with one voice (Genesis 9:20-25 “And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.”: Leviticus 18:6-18 “6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.
7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.
10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.
13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.
14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.
15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.
17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.” 20:17-18 “And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity. And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered {Heb. made naked} her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.”) as bringing God's certain curse (Genesis 9:25 “And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren”). The concealment of nakedness is a concept firmly rooted in Biblical modesty (1 Timothy 2:9-10 “In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided {plaited} hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.”), although it is commonly ignored by today's culture and routinely trampled in the ongoing practice of medicine. Is it any wonder that depraved and unsupervised children sometimes refer to their indecent exposure as "playing doctor"?
And what of the administration of drugs? Are you aware that the Greek word for sorcery {<pharmakeia>} (the use or the administering of drugs ("pharmacist"): poisoning: sorcery, witchcraft, magical arts) also refers to the concoctions of the druggist---sorcerer used as remedies? We are told that sorcery (drug use) will be a predominate sin of the Endtime, and one which men will refuse to part with even in the face of unprecedented Divine judgments (Revelation 9:21 “Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.”: and following also Galatians 5:19-21 “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft {Greek <pharmakeia>--pharmacy}, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”: Revelation 21:8 “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”).
A survey of these considerations and a trusting look at the many promises of bodily healing in the Word of God have convinced me that simple trust in Jesus is preferable to reliance upon the vaunted medical discoveries of modern man. And when I ponder the very practical consideration that JESUS has been faithful to heal me and maintain my health for many years, I am satisfied with this simple, but Scriptural conclusion concerning physical healing---
I would rather trust Jesus!
Sandhill Bible Church,
4505 Sandhill Road.
Auburn. AL 36830 (334} 749-6475
sandhillbchurch@bellsouth.net
Website: http://www.sandhillbiblechurch.org
My personal testimony is that Jesus the Great Physcian has been my personal physican, and HIM only, since 1982. He has always been faithful and always will be. I was born in 1938. Thank you JESUS!
[Updated on: Mon, 24 December 2007 20:45]
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