Home » Discussion Area » Bible Issues » Women, Headcoverings, and Angels...
| Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #9934 is a reply to message #9933] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 23:02   |
 Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
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Hi Mark,
It seems to me you are tuning in to the wrong station.
Angels appeared to people & spoke face to face, not in the mind.
We as believers are to take `every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.` (2 Cor. 10: 5)We do not open ourselves to other voices but the Holy Spirit.
Marilyn C
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| Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #10689 is a reply to message #9933] |
Sat, 28 December 2013 11:02 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
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Mark Wrote: I haven't had a lot of time of late to be here But I did want to clarify one thing.
Sometimes when "God" speaks to us it is really the angel in our life and if you're discerning you can tell the difference.
I said that way above. What I meant was that when "the Lord" speaks to us sometimes it is the Holy Spirit and sometimes it is the angel who has charge over our life. People in the bible recognized that. Jacob at the end of his life spoke of the angel who accompanied him. Often the prophets received visons given by and accompanied by angels
Sometimes I can tell the difference. To me that is just one the little issues that make having a spiritual life enjoyable.
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Marilyn wrote: Hi Mark,
It seems to me you are tuning in to the wrong station.
Angels appeared to people & spoke face to face, not in the mind.
We as believers are to take `every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.` (2 Cor. 10: 5)We do not open ourselves to other voices but the Holy Spirit.
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I completely missed these posts.
I don't see where Mark is saying anything about Angels speaking to our minds here.
I think it may be good to look further into this area of the ministry of angels. I know they do play a role in men's lives. The scripture even tells us some have entertained angels unawares. So it is obvious that angels can come on the earth and walk around as mere men, or how else could we entertain them not knowing they are angels.
I believe its a valid ministry on their part.
There is the fine line as well.
I saw on someones sight where they shared; an angel appeared in the meeting, when he took off one of his feathers fell out and this guy kept it as a souvenir. You can see it on his web site along with the gold dust and large gem stones that appeared out of no where.
For one thing angels don't have wings, so this means no feathers. So who appeared in that meeting anyway?
Like one brother stated, the angels are molting now.
I guess that is part of the other extreme.
But I do believe now, the angels play a greater role in our lives then what we realize. I need to look into this further.
Gary
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| Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #10744 is a reply to message #10689] |
Tue, 21 January 2014 15:07 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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I'm reading through the Bible in a different way than I've ever gone about it. Starting Jan.1 I read one chapter in Genesis and one chapter in Matthew each day and after two years the entire Bible has been read with the NT and Psalms twice.(it's a group thing where the entire congregation does this and often the pastor will go over the prior week's readings and teach/share and open the floor to anyone who has anything they want to share that they feel The Lord revealed to them from their readings; interesting)
So I'm still noticing how often God uses "The Angel of The LORD" in revealing His desires/plans/will to man. Todays reading (Gen.22) starts off with God telling Abraham to offer Isaac as a burnt offering. Then just as Abraham was about to fulfill his obedience unto God by raising the knife to slay Isaac, "The Angel of The LORD" spoke to him out of heaven. I remember Gary suggesting God didn't use The Angel of The Lord in the NT and Mark mentioning Acts 8:26 where Philip was instructed where to go by 'The Angel of The Lord'. It made me wonder if maybe The Angel of The LORD in the OT was The Holy Spirit in the NT. Though I lean more toward It being God Himself, or Jesus. I read several 'experts' opinions on this and there were various opinions based on what they each had been taught or understood the Hebrew words to 'really' mean.
It seems that the writers (in this case, Moses) at times use God speaking and 'The Angel of The Lord' as almost interchangeable. So anyone has any 'light' they can shine on this? Obviously there are instances where there are literally angels sent to carry out God's Will.(The two angels who were sent to destroy Sodom and rescue Lot<actually they are called
men in Gen.19:10>) And then we find in Gen.18 1-3 that 'The LORD' appeared unto Abraham as 'three men', angels? God The Father, Jesus The Son, The Holy Spirit? In verse 13 it says, "And The LORD said..." Then in verse 16 it says that the 'men' rose up.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #10745 is a reply to message #10744] |
Tue, 21 January 2014 16:46 |
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william
Messages: 1464
Registered: January 2006 |
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I've always heard that in the new testament the phrase, "angel of the Lord," after the birth of Jesus, is never used with the definite article, as in "THE" angel of the Lord.
When the old testament uses the phrase --the Angel (Malek) of Yahveh it is often understood as an appearance of God Himself, in other words --a Theophany or Christophany.
In all of the passages that I looked up in the NT, including the Acts 8:28 passage, the definite article, (English="The") is not there and so it could be translated "an" angel of the Lord.
I'm not sure I'd want to build a doctrine on the presence or lack of a definite article but it is an interesting subject.
Apparently the Greek language doesn't have an indefinite article (like "a" or "an") but it does have a definite article ("the"). This indicates that if the definite article is used it is used for a reason. The importance of the omission of the definite article is a little murky.
In English when you hear things like, "a man walked into the local Walmart to buy a gun," the identity of the man may or may not be important... maybe the focus is more on the gun? Both nouns are used with indefinite articles so it is a little hard to tell where the emphasis is being placed.
But if someone said, "THE man walked into the local Walmart to buy a gun," then you know the emphasis is to be placed on the fact that a particular man (THE man) is the focus.
If someone says "a man walked into the local Walmart to buy THE gun," then you'd want to know more about the gun (what type, caliber, etc..)
In short, I'm saying that the presence of the definite article is more important than the absence of the definite article, but the absence of the article may still be significant. Clear as mud?? <grin>
Blessings,
William
[Updated on: Tue, 21 January 2014 17:11]
I want to believe!
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| Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #10746 is a reply to message #9782] |
Wed, 22 January 2014 21:05 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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| james wrote on Fri, 20 September 2013 07:37 |
I've been going over James and Peter the last few days and here's another reference to angels that isn't very clear to me.
"Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with The Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into." I Peter 1:12
I wasn't going to mention it, but since you have been thinking more about angels and their roles in GOD'S Kingdom and our day to day lives, I'll include this scripture. Although I can at least gander a guess as to this, maybe the angels wasn't explained the mysteries of The Kingdom and God's plan of salvation and so they too were eager to understand???
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I've been thinking about The Mystery of The Kingdom and how it was a hidden secret through the ages (Romans 16:25)(Ephesians 3:3-5 &8-10) and how even those who prophesied of the grace that was to come never had it revealed unto them.(I Peter 1:10-12) Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob didn't know God's plan to redeem man. David and Isaiah prophesied of the coming Messiah, yet they didn't have the revelation of The Church and God's eternal plan of redemption through Jesus Christ. And even the disciples didn't 'get it' until after Jesus had risen from the dead. I guess I just hadn't thought it through, John, Peter, and James (Jesus' closest disciples) didn't understand what Jesus had explained to them about having to suffer and die and He told them He would rise again (Matt.26:32) He had foretold them these truths, yet they weren't waiting outside the tomb for Him to come out, they had gone back to their fishing with broken hearts and dreams.(John 21:3)
Then after He had risen He explained (Luke 24:44-49) and opened their spiritual eyes, and after Pentecost and receiving The Holy Spirit they preached the message of The Gospel (Acts 2:38-39) And while the apostles preached repentance and belief in Jesus Christ for salvation, Paul had the deeper revelation and was given the responsibility to take Jesus' message of justification through faith in Him unto the Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.(Acts 9:15-16)
After reading Romans chapter 11 and Paul's explaining the mystery of God's plan and His plan of reconciliation of Israel and warning to us not to become highminded and boast, that it was God's plan from the beginning he ends with this statement: "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out! Rom.11:33
"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true and honest, think on these things....."
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #10810 is a reply to message #10745] |
Thu, 13 February 2014 14:46 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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| william wrote on Tue, 21 January 2014 10:46 |
When the old testament uses the phrase --the Angel (Malek) of Yahveh it is often understood as an appearance of God Himself, in other words --a Theophany or Christophany.
Blessings,
William
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Since we started talking a little bit about angels and their various functions as shown throughout The Word, I've been taking notice of and giving thought to each time I come across mention of them. And with Genesis there are a lot of references to angels...as well as The Angel of The LORD. Two things came together this morning during my devotion time with The Lord; One was the reference to "The Angel" found in Genesis 48:16 (Jacob/Israel was blessing his sons before his death and when he came to Joseph he said:) "...God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which feed me all my life long until this day,
v16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil..." We know angels don't redeem us, the only One who can Redeem man is Jesus Christ.
The second thing was the mention of the word Theophany or Theophanies. I heard the word while watching a Bible teacher teaching on the appearances of God (theophanies) btw: theophany means a visible appearance/manifestation of God. It all seemed to become clearer to me(not that I was totally without any understanding, I just didn't see or understand as much before as I am beginning to now.)
Another thing that the teacher mentioned that made me go,"hummm!" was where it was mentioned back in Genesis 18:1-8 that The LORD appeared unto Abram in the form of three men...and that when Abram offered them food, verse eight, "...and they did eat." I hadn't thought of angels eating food before, but although I don't believe they 'have' to eat, they can. I remember Jesus after His resurrection ate fish and bread with His disciples. (Luke 24:41-43 and John 21:10-13)
Thanks William...now I know more of what you were talking about...<grin>
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #10812 is a reply to message #10810] |
Fri, 14 February 2014 23:29 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
Senior Member |
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Hi James,
I thought you had a good point there -
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(Gen.48)`v16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil..." We know angels don't redeem us, the only One who can Redeem man is Jesus Christ.`
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I also see that what the `angel` is doing shows it is the Lord. For eg. The `angel` at the golden altar, (Rev. 8: 3) shows Christ interceding to the Father. We know that Christ is the only mediator between God & man. Also the mighty `angel` (Rev. 10: 1 c/- Deut. 32: 40)showing Christ swearing by Himself. (Heb. 6: 13)
Another reason we can tell if the angel or a `man,` is Christ, is when He receives worship. eg. Joshua 5: 13 - 15. Here the Lord comes as a `man,` and is bowed down to. Then in Rev. 19:10 we see an angel telling John not to worship him as he is a `fellow servant.`
Interesting discussion. Marilyn.
Marilyn C
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| Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #11382 is a reply to message #10812] |
Thu, 06 November 2014 14:54 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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I was reading today in II Kings 19 where the king of Assyria was threatening Hezekiah and Judah (once again) and Isaiah prophesied that God would protect His remnant and they would not be taken by Sennacherib King of Assyria.
In II King 19:35 we're told that..."And it came to pass that night, that the angel of The LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses."
That's 185,000 soldiers killed at one time by God in defense of His chosen people. Again I find it amazing that Israel could turn from The Living God to serve and worship the gods of other nations who were made by men's hands and totally powerless to save those who worshipped them. Yet they did, time after time. And even more amazing is the love of God shown in keeping His promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in that He always forgave them [and continues to forgive us today, when we repent] and blessed them even when He knew they would turn from Him with the next generation...over and over again.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #13382 is a reply to message #9713] |
Tue, 28 April 2020 12:11 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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The angels are embarrassed and they will not help you. The same thing happens when a Christian bring a christmas tree into there house the angels stay outside.
I honestly don't see where you have any biblical basis for this line of thinking.
I know someone who puts up around 18 trees, (no exaggeration), one in every room some have two, and then on the outside of the house they have several out front, in the back and side yards fully decorated. The house looks like a shrine.
According to this line of thinking the angels would probably go three or four blocks away, of course they have to deal with all the neighborhood trees outside as well.
It says in the Bible; I will never leave you nor forsake you. Your not seeing this through the eyes of God. In Bible College when ever I wrote a paper I was never allowed to just quote someone without proving why I agreed with them from scripture. Everything had to be backed up with scriptures.
I don't see where we can throw in thoughts and ideas that are not mentioned in the Bible, if that were the case everybody could carry the scriptures to the extreme.
Don't you think this is adding to the Bible which were warned against? I feel like a lot of strange doctrines we have today is because people add some scenario to the scriptures that do not exist. Not trying to chide you here but surprised your saying this.
In Him,
Gary
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| Re: Women, Headcoverings, and Angels... [message #13386 is a reply to message #13382] |
Tue, 28 April 2020 16:18 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Don't know if I'm in "the choir " or not but I've written quite a bit about the christmas 🎄 and Santa Claus 🎅 in opposition to these traditions of man that Christianity has wholeheartedly adopted. Also Easter rabbits and eggs.... I abandoned those practices over 40 years ago (and I'm almost certain most on this forum has as well)
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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