Home » Discussion Area » Bible Issues » John G Lake (Divine Healing)
| John G Lake [message #13105] |
Fri, 24 January 2020 14:38  |
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 Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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I was listening to a brother online reading a book written by John G. Lake. I believe when it came to divine healing John G Lake preached this message stronger then HF.
This man had seen more people healed and brought to Christ in his life time then what we could imagine.
How could these men at the turn of the century have the power of God visibly working in their ministry? What was different?
For several years now I have been seeking the Lord for healing in my body but at times resorted to remedies of various types. That sounds better then saying I was taking medicine. I don't have a lot of confidence in medical science mainly because of their track record, and I have always thought disease was part of the curse and I have thought that men can never remove the curse from mankind. Its only God and God along who can deliver men, and we all know, this was provided at Calvary, removal of the curse.
I started looking at all the scriptures on divine healing and set myself to memorizing them, I thought this might be part of the issue why so many have to struggle in this area. While I got some relief, I still was plagued with certain symptoms. We have heard about trials of the faith but in the Bible when God healed someone they were healed. I did not know if we can call everything a trial.
I took a good look at the Bible to see; were we taught wrong as some have suggested, you know saying we were deluded and involved in a cult. I read a post on this board called "Were we crazy?", suggesting this was the problem. They obviously did not believe in divine healing.
But going through the scriptures I can see we have a better covenant then the Old Testament saints. They were promised healing, we have been promised healing. When the Lamb of God was sacrificed on the cross we see that "it was finished". We are set free in body, soul, and spirit. The Bible says: that the gates of hell will not prevail against the church of Jesus Christ.
Why no healing?, Why no power? I have come to the conclusion that the problem is with us/me. What is in my life, something is stopping the flow of God from reaching out and becoming what the Bible says we should be like. I thought for a while maybe its sins of presumption, like David mentions in Psalms. I've tried to consider every angle.
When you read the books from all these men of God at the turn of the century, who walked in the power and anointing of the Spirit, it makes you wonder. I don't think we can shove this off on the Lord when He provided everything at Calvary, saying were waiting on God.
I also considered, I did not want to be in the place where I can see the Word but I don't see it, or I can hear the Word but can't hear it. That theme is all through the Bible, where God tells the prophets: the people cannot hear nor see what is being said. Well you have to be honest and consider everything in the Lord, it is possible to be self deluded. God wants us to examine ourselves to some degree. Maybe that's the key word, "self", too much of self still on the throne and in control.
These statements are no way meant to condemn but to be honest before the Lord. Please don't let the fiery darts of the enemy tell you different. I'm thinking only about my own journey on this earth and looking at what God said He would do, and at the church as a whole without the power and anointing that should be there. I know God will never leave us or forsake us, but isn't He the One who is worthy of all our affections in this life?
I want to share more on this I'm going through John G. Lakes books and seeing what this brother is saying to us and why it worked for him. For instance he stated:
Beloved, may every one of these holy demonstrations work out in your life, as they worked out in mine, a divine consciousness that God by the Spirit never comes to a man's life to whitewash him, or smooth him over, but God comes to him to make him new and give him a new heart, a new mind, a new spirit, new blood, new bone, new flesh, to send him out with a new song in his mouth, a new shout of praise in his heart, and a new realization of holiness-a truly redeemed man.
Also he states:
Basically the person that is sick in the body has been sick in the spirit quite a while. It has gotten down into his soul and passed through that into the body. I cannot tell you brethren what this truth that I an telling you has meant in my life. I now can trace every physical change in my body to a spiritual condition. My body responds to my spirit.
I hope this will bless you brothers as much as it is blessing me. I realize you all have walked with the Lord a number of years and desire to know His Will. The gates of hell will not prevail against us as we take a stand in the Lord. There are dark clouds arising over this world and seriously who knows how much time is really left.
In Him,
Gary
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| Re: John G Lake [message #13108 is a reply to message #13105] |
Sat, 25 January 2020 14:52  |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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In the beginning days of John Lakes ministry, he said he would work all day and then preach every night and then after the preaching they would all get together for a time of intercession.
In contrast I remember we would go to the meetings close to five or six times during the week, there was a great anointing at that time in the beginning, but no great manifestations of the Spirit like we heard about. What did we do after the meetings generally everyone went to a restaurant and talked about what they were believing for. Okay I'm being a little facetious here but you all know what took place. I still remember how when someone testified in a meeting about how they got their new Cadillac that there would be a lot of rejoicing.
Thankfully the Lord was very gracious to us as believers, but I think we lost sight of the goal. Oh we still loved the Lord and His Word, but as Christian said in pilgrims progress: we had taken a wrong turn. We loved the Lord and in our zeal wanted to do anything to please Him. That is why these teachings came up what do we give up next in our walk with Him, I think everyone thought we were growing closer to God here.
It is amazing to me that all these brothers at the turn of the century knew each other to some degree. John G Lake went to John Alexander Dowie and told him about a verified creative miracle that took place. Dowie asked him do you know the facts on this and Lake said he did. John Dowie then paid $100.00 (which was a lot of money back in those days), for the lady to come out and talk to him about this miracle. He had seen many healings in his time but never a creative miracle.
Nothing is to hard for our God.
John Lake also told of setting in a house meeting at F Bosworth's house and a little old Quaker lady was preaching on the cleansing of the soul, steps to take to grow closer to the Lord.
Jesus said; the gates of hell would not prevail against the church. But He also told us that a house divided, how should it stand.
While theology is part of Christianity today, I don't know if it was the main emphasis back then. As we all know doctrine and correct theology divides churches and we develop a sort of religious prejudice between us and other Christians. The old time saints centered their lives around the power of God which Jesus provided at the cross, and prayer, fasting, and reaching the lost and helping mankind was the main concern. This did not mean they swallowed everything new that came down the pike but God kept them by His Spirit as they ministered. We as believers examined everything through our theology. You know good and well a little old Quaker woman would of been dealt with. The Word of God is a sharp two edge sword, and theology can be used as a weapon. The Lord tells us to get understanding and wisdom when getting knowledge.
Why no power, Why no healing? Knowledge is power as they say in the world. I think the teachings became narrowed to where it might not of been said, but people thought theology was the power to get closer to the Lord. Maybe that is stretching it a bit, but we all know the different scenarios that evolved through the years. But facing reality somehow we lost sight of the great commission. Jesus said without me you can do nothing, I am the vine you are the branches.
John G Lake was preaching every night after work and one day he went in and told his boss that he wanted to take some time off to preach. His boss said okay, go preach for three weeks and when you come back you'll have a $50000.00 job waiting for you. That my friends was like $200000.00 dollars today. John went off preaching and then he tells us he never went back to his job.
The Abundant life was never about houses, cars, prosperous endeavors but it was about Jesus and His anointing and power to reach the lost. Abundance in His power to reach a dying world. One minister told John Lake in the beginning of his ministry that he never prayed for himself for healing because he knew that it was accomplished at Calvary so he now spent his time praying for others.
Praise God He still has His hand on us and God is not finished with us as a people no matter where we find ourselves. The Great God of all resides inside of these mortal bodies, no longer in a temple in Jerusalem. We have to gain back lost ground by moving on in the Spirit.
The World did not interest the brothers back at the turn of the century, we all have a free choice to see what is more important, this old world or the Kingdom of God. The pearl of great price is it worth getting rid of all our other pearls?
In Him,
Gary
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| Re: John G Lake [message #13134 is a reply to message #13105] |
Sun, 09 February 2020 18:18 |
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william
Messages: 1465
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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Hi Gary,
You quote John G. Lake:
Quote:Also he states:
Basically the person that is sick in the body has been sick in the spirit quite a while. It has gotten down into his soul and passed through that into the body. I cannot tell you brethren what this truth that I an telling you has meant in my life. I now can trace every physical change in my body to a spiritual condition. My body responds to my spirit.
What about Job? Was he sick in spirit? (God said he was perfect and upright!)
I think sometimes we get hung up on spiritual sounding clichés and really fail to examine the applicability to our lives.
Look, this sounds like something Job's 'friends' might have said to him in the midst of his suffering.
Who among us has achieved perfection in our spirit? Does the author of those words want us to know that we aren't going to be healthy until we arrive at some sort of spiritual nirvana?
I don't care if it is John G Lake, or whoever else might be saying it, if Jesus' work on the cross wasn't big enough to SIMULTANEOUSLY take care of our 'spiritual' problem AND our 'physical' problem--AT THE SAME TIME--then we might as well give up on the whole idea that "thy faith hath made thee whole".
Why?
With this kind of thinking, how can you have faith that your SINS are forgiven--if you are sick? Conversely, do we walk around thinking our sins are forgiven BECAUSE we are HEALTHY? (Both ideas are wrong.)
Human nature always jumps to conclusions (like Job's friends) when it sees these types of issues, i.e. hurricane Katrina happened because of all of those homosexuals down there in New Orleans, etc..
[Luk 13:1-5 KJV] 1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Job, you've got sin in your heart or you wouldn't be suffering like this! How can anyone expect to believe God for healing or anything else if we live under this type of condemnation?
[1Jo 3:19-22 KJV] 19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. 20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, [then] have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
Am I ignoring sin? No. I don't believe we can live in sin and expect God to heal us, which is why we all should make sure to keep our accounts short. This is the only way that our faith in Him will work, this is the only way our hearts won't condemn us when we seek Him for healing, our confidence in Him is governed by making sure we are living in a forgiven state.
But, and this is the heart of it, Satan will attempt to rob us of having any faith in God for healing by using the old "we all sin" in a general sort of way, making sure we never get around to finding out the specific sin that is yoked to this or that malady.
If we are sinners we can never be fully healed. However, if we know of some specific sin that we need to acknowledge and deal with, then we can repent and be healed--both spiritually and physically.
If Satan can somehow link a specific aliment to some vague, general, sin or sinfulness, we can never be sure we've done enough, repented enough, (worked enough), to be healed.
If, on the other hand, we believe that God has forgiven us (for all of our sin) then we can have confidence that He will heal us of all of our sicknesses.
" Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all His benefits:
Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases" (Psalm 103:2-3)
Thy faith has made thee whole!
Blessings,
William
[Updated on: Sun, 09 February 2020 23:05]
I want to believe!
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| Re: John G Lake [message #13160 is a reply to message #13134] |
Tue, 18 February 2020 22:48 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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Greetings to all,
Its been a journey to say the least still recovering.
When I wrote this post, I was thinking what made this man different from me/us. We have the word, the anointing surely there was more.
I closed out the post then went immediately upstairs, then came this pain in the middle of my chest, I asked my wife to pray, grabbed a bottle of baby aspirin when I opened it they went all over the room I thought I got down to get one my wife said I fell down. She called her Mother and ask to please pray . I then got an aspirin and tylenol started to fill less pain. I waited around 5 hours, pain was mild, I kept confessing the healing promises. Then I checked my blood pressure it was 87/68, a friend told my wife he better get to the hospital. Teresa drove me there, they hooked me up to an ekg and said they could see nothing wrong. When going to the hospital I told my wife no matter what do not let them operate.
At the hospital they gave me nitro glycerin, from t hat point on it got black and I was out. They rushed me in for a cat scan and said my Aorta ripped all the way down. From there I was rushed to the methodist hosp in Indy. I remember nothing from there on out. An hour and a half drive in an ambulance I did remember the chuck holes. They wanted to fly by chopper but it was icing out.
The surgeon told my wife I was able to answer questions when I first got there. I don't remember it.
I was in surgery for 9 hours.
I do know this I went down to the gates of death and Jesus came and bought me back to the land of the living. I am forever grateful to Him.
My wife said they told her I should of died on the kitchen floor, less then one per cent make it in the ambulance, out of that one per cent make it though the surgery, my Aorta ripped all the way down, the first and second layer, they third layer held up and I had no blood loss.
Long story short the surgeon and everyone said I was a miracle. I sure did not feel like one. A nurse said in 22 years she had only seen one other person survive this.
Still recovering and sorting through it all. My wife said someone from the old camp said I probably had to deal with condemnation.
I did not, there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, He had His hand of Mercy and Grace for me.
Thank you for your Prayers much appreciated, Thank you all for your Kindness.I have a greater appreciation for the body of Christ and His people.
I shall declare His Glory.
Gary
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| Re: John G Lake [message #13161 is a reply to message #13160] |
Tue, 18 February 2020 23:08 |
Mark L
Messages: 858
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
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Wow! Good to hear from you. I didn't know what was going on but I was praying for you. You would have been greatly missed. Glad you made it.
Still recovering and sorting through it all. My wife said someone from the old camp said I probably had to deal with condemnation.
You'd never get that from anyone that has been through a serious trial. Not me or the other guys here.
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| Re: John G Lake [message #13165 is a reply to message #13162] |
Wed, 19 February 2020 14:30 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Gary, Thank you for letting us know what happened, praise Jesus for restoring you to life. Brother, you are 100% right; there is NO condemnation to those in Christ...don't let anyone try putting that on you, including Satan through thoughts. God doesn't hurt those He loves, and He loves you...NOTHING can separate you from that love.
Love you brother and appreciate your fellowship through the years, may there be many more...and yes, may we live to proclaim the Glory of God.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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