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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11522 is a reply to message #11521] |
Fri, 27 February 2015 16:06   |
 james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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Job's question and the answer...
In chapter 28 of Job, Job raises the question: "But where shall wisdom be found? and where is the place of understanding?" Job 28:12 He describes how God has placed gold, silver, iron, brass, and stones such as sapphires in the earth. He speaks of God's power to create and control all the earth, yet wisdom can not be bought with pearls, rubies, or topaz; not even pure gold will allow a person to obtain it.
Then in the last verse he reveals the way to gain wisdom and understanding.
"And to man HE said, Behold, the fear of The LORD, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding."
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11539 is a reply to message #11522] |
Fri, 13 March 2015 13:27 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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"O Praise The LORD, all ye nations: praise Him, all ye people.
For His merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of The LORD endureth for ever.
O Give thanks unto The LORD; for He is good: because His mercy endureth for ever."
Ps.117:1-2 &118:1
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11540 is a reply to message #11539] |
Mon, 16 March 2015 13:31 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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"For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of The LORD, as the waters cover the sea."
Habakkuk 2:14
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11544 is a reply to message #11540] |
Wed, 18 March 2015 15:34 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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Encouragement to Give Thanks Unto The LORD...
I don't know the exact number of times in God's Word He tells us to be thankful or to give thanks...I do know there are many. Being thankful is an attitude and response of the heart; it's hard to be thankful when we are harboring sin in our lives. Pride and self-centeredness are things God hates, there is no room for humility in a heart filled with pride and focused on self. We're told in II Timothy 3:1-7 that in the last days many people will fall to various sins and snares, the first one mentioned is: "lovers of their own selves" and in the same verse "unthankful"...these aren't those one would think of as ungodly people, these are people that have a form of godliness.(maybe found in the church, even leaders of churches.)
Giving thanks isn't a costly exercise, we can do it anywhere and anytime. Paul was praising God and giving thanks from prisons and in persecution. I've met people who have a thankful heart and by societies standards they have very little; being thankful isn't a response 'after' we've been blessed with material blessings, it's a response to God based on what He's already done (at Calvary) and a response of obedience to what He throughout His Word tells us to do...Be thankful...give thanks.
A thankful heart is a humble heart, humbled by the realization of who we are/were and what has been sacrificed by Jesus to restore us to The Father. Understanding God's Love as displayed in His provision of a Saviour, when we in no way deserved saving, has to lead a person to being thankful.
"O Give thanks unto The LORD; call upon His name: make know His deeds among the people." Ps.105:1
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11547 is a reply to message #11544] |
Wed, 25 March 2015 14:48 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Antidote for Discouragement...
"Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to The Lord;
Giving thanks always for all things unto God and The Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ..." Ephesians 5:19-20
Satan will use anything at his disposal to destroy our witness; discouragement, despondency, depression, defeat...but God has given us everything we need to overcome Satan. We have the power of The Holy Spirit, we have the Name of Jesus, we have the power of His shed Blood,(The Cross) we have His Word, and we have the armour of God. Satan can't obtain victory over us or our emotions when we're abiding in Christ, focused on Him and His glory, He inhabits the praises of His people, that's one purpose of praise and worship, we enter into His presence and we know where He is Satan is not! It's impossible to be in God's presence singing and making melody to Him and be discouraged and depressed...we may enter into His gates and into His courts with thanksgiving and praise, being thankful and blessing His Name...We can't be focused on ourselves and our lives and be focused on The King of Kings and The Lord of Lord, the creator of all that is seen and unseen, our salvation and hope, at the same time. His Glory out shines all else and the Light of the Glory of the knowledge of God as seen in Christ Jesus is ALL we could ever need, it brings deep hope and assurance that He who has made the promise will certainly fulfill it. Nothing can separate us from that Great Love, Nothing!
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11549 is a reply to message #11547] |
Mon, 30 March 2015 15:43 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Wisdom and Truth...
"The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from The Lord.
All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but The Lord weigheth the spirits.
Commit thy works unto The Lord, and thy thoughts shall be established." Proverbs 16:1-3
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11550 is a reply to message #11549] |
Sun, 05 April 2015 15:25 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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HE IS RISEN...
"Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulcher.
And they entered in, and found not they body of The Lord Jesus.
And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shinning garments.
And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?
He is not here, but is risen..." Luke 24:1-6
Thanks be unto God our Father for the gift of life unto hopelessly lost man through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.
"Blessed be The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." I Peter 1:3-5
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11551 is a reply to message #11550] |
Tue, 07 April 2015 06:31 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
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Hi James,
What wonderful, uplifting scriptures. Thank you.
Now to something personal - What do you believe is -
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To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.
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Blessings, Marilyn.
PS. Probably this might need to go to the doctrine area.
[Updated on: Tue, 07 April 2015 06:32]
Marilyn C
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11553 is a reply to message #11551] |
Tue, 07 April 2015 14:09 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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Hello Marilyn,
I believe the inheritance awaiting those whom God has begotten/called/chosen unto salvation is, in a condensed answer, to know God and enjoy Him forever. We can quote scriptures all day on what all The Word promises to those who overcome (Rev.) and those who endure to the end...but as to what all that will include, I'm thinking we don't even begin to comprehend, even though we 'see it' through the eye of faith. Endless worship and praise; endless joy and peace; endless life and health, and so much more.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11554 is a reply to message #11553] |
Wed, 08 April 2015 13:43 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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More thoughts and meditations from God's Word on our inheritance...
Jesus spoke of what awaits the believer in John 3:15-16.
"That whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
In John 17 John records what Jesus said, "And this is life eternal, that they might know Thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent."
Knowing God, is eternal life; and that is certainly the key to our inheritance and the most important...for without knowing God there is no inheritance/salvation/eternal life. To behold His Glory to the extent that He choses to reveal to us today, won't compare to what awaits when we're in the fullness of His Presence.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11555 is a reply to message #11554] |
Wed, 08 April 2015 22:41 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
Senior Member |
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Hi James,
What a wonderful inheritance, bequest, the gift of eternal, everlasting life. And all because our Lord Jesus died for us. Never before has such a last will & testament been given. Truely amazing.
Here are some thoughts from that great teacher, Charles J. Rolls.
Never before in the whole range of human knowledge was a messenger sent on such an important issue for mankind which involved, besides other supreme matters, the gift of eternal life, the bequest of an everlasting inheritance, & the legacy of immortal blessedness.
More than all this, the person of the messenger Himself by far exceeds the exceptional mission & ethereal message on account of which he came. Heaven`s chiefest & choicest in the whole celestial hierarchy came in manifestation, to convey the glad tidings & to confirm the covenant.
The pure motive of His precious message & the perfect magnificence of His personal majesty are unrivaled in world history. How strange it appears that everyone`s attention is not arrested & attracted by the manifestation of such a delegate, with so wonderful a purpose from the celestial court.
How blessed we are to know & to receive the truth.
Marilyn.
Marilyn C
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11558 is a reply to message #11555] |
Thu, 09 April 2015 14:06 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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As I thought about our inheritance I was reminded of Psalms 103. Verse two exhorts us to forget not ALL His benefits. Some are listed in the following passages; forgiveness of iniquities(all of them),healing of diseases (all of them), redemption from destruction, receiving daily of His lovingkindness and tender mercies, food for our mouths (good food), the renewing of our youth. But there are many, many more benefits...just the simple things that are so easy to take for granted such as our senses of sight, hearing, feeling, smelling, tasting.
I watched my earthly father waste away from Lou Gehrig Disease for 22 years, he couldn't even scratch his nose or feed himself. I daily thank The Lord for the strength to walk and enjoy nature each day, to see and smell the flowers and watch wildlife going about their daily lives.
The benefits are given us freely, but they came at a cost...Jesus our Lord suffered, bled, and died to purchase those benefits. I see widows who have been given an inheritance through death of their spouse(such as a 401K or an IRA or property) and sometimes they mention their appreciation of the one who loved them had a plan in place of provision for them should something ever happen to them. How much more appreciative should we be because our heavenly Father had a plan in place for us to provide benefits(inheritance) for us, both now and in the future...may we never lose sight of the cost, who paid it, and for what purpose.
"Bless The Lord, O my soul, and forget not all His benefits."
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11560 is a reply to message #11558] |
Thu, 09 April 2015 15:18 |
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william
Messages: 1465
Registered: January 2006 |
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| Quote: |
... How much more appreciative should we be because our heavenly Father had a plan in place for us to provide benefits(inheritance) for us, both now and in the future...may we never lose sight of the cost, who paid it, and for what purpose.
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Amen to that!
Human love seems to rise and wane with circumstances, His love is eternal!
Back during the 70s it was popular to greet others with a 'Jesus Loves You' and as I was thinking about this the other day it occurred to me that if we wanted to be completely frank we would've added: -- Jesus loves you, and so do we (as long as you are doing everything we believe you should be doing!)
Blessings,
William
[Updated on: Thu, 09 April 2015 15:19]
I want to believe!
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11561 is a reply to message #11560] |
Fri, 10 April 2015 10:10 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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| william wrote on Thu, 09 April 2015 11:18 |
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... How much more appreciative should we be because our heavenly Father had a plan in place for us to provide benefits(inheritance) for us, both now and in the future...may we never lose sight of the cost, who paid it, and for what purpose.
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Amen to that!
Human love seems to rise and wane with circumstances, His love is eternal!
Back during the 70s it was popular to greet others with a 'Jesus Loves You' and as I was thinking about this the other day it occurred to me that if we wanted to be completely frank we would've added: -- Jesus loves you, and so do we (as long as you are doing everything we believe you should be doing!)
Blessings,
William
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I can only share a few thoughts here as I am rushed to get to work.
The other side of the coin is the groups that say they have the love but could careless how someone lives and are even supportive of certain sins that are predominate in society today. It takes just a little leaven in a church setting. In other words it can be rephrased: Jesus loves you and so do we, (so live the way you want and we won't judge).
I realize there's a balance that man has not arrived at but when one takes a good look at the life of Christ we know that some could accuse Him of having no love because of the way He dealt with certain situations.
For example: A guys trying to make a living and feed his family, and maybe his intent is right and then comes along a fellow and throws his money on the floor, upsets his carts and runs him out of the temple with a whip.
I think with anything its how a person perceives different situations in life. Whether for the good or for the bad.
Anyway I have been thinking concerning this whole concept with what is taking place in any given church and what did Jesus actually tell His followers.
What's the old saying: that, "salvation is free but its not cheap", if you know what I mean.
The root of the problem is sin deeply rooted in man's fleshly desires and having our own way in life.
Gary
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11565 is a reply to message #11561] |
Sat, 11 April 2015 13:54 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Without Direction We're Hopelessly Lost...
I was reading Paul's two epistles to the church of the Thessalonians and I saw the word direct in a couple of places. First in I Thess.3:11 Paul is seeking that God Himself and Jesus direct him unto them from Athens. Also II Thess.3:5 he writes: "And The Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ."
Unless God directs us, we are as lost as sheep without a shepherd. We can't even love God without Him doing a work within our hearts. Man would never choose God over himself without coming to understand His great Love for us first. He loved us while we were yet sinner, giving Jesus as a propitiation for our sins, reconciling us unto Himself. And it's His calling through the revelation of The Gospel message by His Holy Spirit that gives us directions as how to get unto Him, through Christ Jesus.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11566 is a reply to message #11565] |
Tue, 14 April 2015 20:58 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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I listened to one of Tom Hamilton's last sermons (April 1) and he was preaching on believing, and can it be mentioned or preacher on too much. A scripture he used was found in John 5:24
"Verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
Believing God, can never be over taught, without faith in God and what Christ did on behalf of us we have no ground to stand on or foundation to build our lives upon. We're told that without faith it's impossible to please God and that it's by faith we receive anything from God. Yes it's His grace and mercy and love, but if a person doesn't believe then they never receive the benefits of His love, mercy, and grace; salvation, restoration, reconciliation, and redemption.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11569 is a reply to message #11566] |
Mon, 20 April 2015 20:30 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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"And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife ; and some also of good will:
The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice."Phil. 1:14-18
These scriptures came to my mind last night as I watched part of the 50th Country Music Award show on TV. For the first time that I'm aware of, the name of Jesus was boldly spoken of by country artist as they accepted their awards. Not just one or two but at least 7-8 groups or individuals gave thanks unto The Lord for their talents as well as openly professing Him as their Lord and Saviour, and I only watched for an hour or so. I've heard people when receiving an award give thanks to the voters, their peers, the fans, and whatnot; but these didn't just mumble a quick 'thank the Lord' they boldly proclaimed Him as Lord and Saviour of their lives and in a venue that didn't normally speak of Christ, they did.
My point? Well it's not to try to convert anyone to 'country music'...lol. it's to say that in a setting, TV, with millions watching and their record sales based on popularity of the masses, they didn't act ashamed of Jesus Christ, and took that opportunity to say so. And as Paul stated, I rejoiced to see the name of Jesus Christ mentioned...who knows what effect it could have on someone's life.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11570 is a reply to message #11565] |
Thu, 23 April 2015 13:46 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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| james wrote on Sat, 11 April 2015 08:54 |
Without Direction We're Hopelessly Lost...
I was reading Paul's two epistles to the church of the Thessalonians and I saw the word direct in a couple of places. First in I Thess.3:11 Paul is seeking that God Himself and Jesus direct him unto them from Athens. Also II Thess.3:5 he writes: "And The Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ."
Unless God directs us, we are as lost as sheep without a shepherd. We can't even love God without Him doing a work within our hearts. Man would never choose God over himself without coming to understand His great Love for us first. He loved us while we were yet sinner, giving Jesus as a propitiation for our sins, reconciling us unto Himself. And it's His calling through the revelation of The Gospel message by His Holy Spirit that gives us directions as how to get unto Him, through Christ Jesus.
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"If the iron be blunt, and he do not whet the edge, then must he put to more strength: but wisdom is profitable to direct." Ecc. 10:10
This scripture in my daily reading caught my eye after mentioning 'direct/direction' in this previous post. Here is a practical example of God giving man wisdom to direct him in everyday life. The sharper the edge of a cutting tool, the less effort is required to do the job at hand. Of course we know that evolutionist think it took many years of trial and error before man stumbled upon the "ah ha" moment when the light came on...but it was God who gave that wisdom. (Imagine how long it would have taken to do all the work God directed Noah to do in the building of the ark without sharp cutting instruments.)
After thought: William I'm sure you're getting to experience this in working with wood using power tools as well as hand tools...gotta have sharp tools to do good work, not to mention to keep from wearing yourself out having to add the extra muscle.
And Gary learned it years ago...lol
[Updated on: Thu, 23 April 2015 13:51]
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11575 is a reply to message #11570] |
Tue, 28 April 2015 16:25 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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This past Friday night David Platt taught for six hours on "Christ, Culture, and the Call to Action" in a setting that is called "Secret Church". That term is taken from a mission trip he took about 8-9 years ago where, while in Asia the Christians who were under threat of persecution for meeting and studying God's Word, asked him to teach them at a hidden location at night. He has done fifteen of these intense teachings and they are simulcast around the world to tens of thousands via internet. (anyone interested can find them on YouTube under Secret Church, David Platt...except this last one, it hasn't been downloaded to it yet...but the study guide can be read by going to Radical, Secret Church and downloading the study guide, with the answers filled in.)
He covers a lot of material but here's a couple of quotes he took from a couple of very respected men of God from the last century speaking on the lack of a fear of God and how the society we live in and culture has watered down the importance of repentance and just who God is and what He demands of mankind.
"The vague and tenuous hope that God is too kind to punish the ungodly has become a deadly opiate for the consciences of millions. It hushes their fears and allows them to practice all pleasant forms of iniquity while death draws every day nearer and the command to repent goes unheeded."
A.W.Tozer
"What is most needed today is a wide proclamation of those truths which are the least acceptable to the flesh. What is needed today is a scriptural setting forth of the character of God-His absolute sovereignty, His ineffable holiness, His inflexible justice, His unchanging veracity. What is needed today is a scriptural setting forth of the condition of the natural man-his total depravity, his spiritual insensibility, his inveterate hostility to God, the fact that he is 'condemned already' and that the wrath of a sin-hating God is even now abiding on him."
A.W.Pink
[Updated on: Tue, 28 April 2015 16:31]
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11576 is a reply to message #11575] |
Sat, 02 May 2015 11:53 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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| james wrote on Tue, 28 April 2015 12:25 |
This past Friday night David Platt taught for six hours on "Christ, Culture, and the Call to Action" in a setting that is called "Secret Church". That term is taken from a mission trip he took about 8-9 years ago where, while in Asia the Christians who were under threat of persecution for meeting and studying God's Word, asked him to teach them at a hidden location at night. He has done fifteen of these intense teachings and they are simulcast around the world to tens of thousands via internet. (anyone interested can find them on YouTube under Secret Church, David Platt...except this last one, it hasn't been downloaded to it yet...but the study guide can be read by going to Radical, Secret Church and downloading the study guide, with the answers filled in.)
He covers a lot of material but here's a couple of quotes he took from a couple of very respected men of God from the last century speaking on the lack of a fear of God and how the society we live in and culture has watered down the importance of repentance and just who God is and what He demands of mankind.
"The vague and tenuous hope that God is too kind to punish the ungodly has become a deadly opiate for the consciences of millions. It hushes their fears and allows them to practice all pleasant forms of iniquity while death draws every day nearer and the command to repent goes unheeded."
A.W.Tozer
"What is most needed today is a wide proclamation of those truths which are the least acceptable to the flesh. What is needed today is a scriptural setting forth of the character of God-His absolute sovereignty, His ineffable holiness, His inflexible justice, His unchanging veracity. What is needed today is a scriptural setting forth of the condition of the natural man-his total depravity, his spiritual insensibility, his inveterate hostility to God, the fact that he is 'condemned already' and that the wrath of a sin-hating God is even now abiding on him."
A.W.Pink
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I have got to say here that I am finding out there is a lot of ungodly people who profess to know Christ. I am only sharing this because this is what I am running into in my workplace and what I am experiencing.
I keep thinking the problem is that many are not being taught the Bible correctly and they have not a clue of what Jesus told His disciples.
Bear with me here. I was talking with a man yesterday who is very vocal and generally a lot of uncleanness proceeds out of his mouth, when out of nowhere he tells me that a man who is a customer of his always sets with him at church where he and his wife attend. I was a little shocked.
Well I'm only sharing this as I'm not here to pass judgement on the guy or other co-workers but just sharing my heart, and what I am experiencing at work. This man has had a huge influence over other employees who also profess to know Christ. They allow themselves to watch anything on TV or the internet and boast of it. This man brags about the porn he watches. Just trying to let you see what I am experiencing not here to make a judgement call on their sin.
Somewhere or how, I know God wants me to be a positive influence on these guys without coming across as holier then thou attitude. (In my heart I would like to quit and go home and just work in the garden till Christ returns or calls me home), that way I won't have to listen to it. Thankfully, I think that will happen when we get to heaven. I don't know if anyone else here has realized this but we or those out of our group are a little bit different in what we hold to as truth. I don't mean this in a bad way but its just that we were influenced in a way to understand.
Why us it could of been anybody, I'm not saying this to make us anything but to make a point. One other thing while I am thinking about it, I always thought peer pressure was something that teenagers had to deal with and that we had passed that stage. But now I think that peer pressure is a powerful force that tries to hold influence over all of us as Christians. Society wants all of us to conform to what they think and feel. I mean who wants to be different or odd, everyone wants to be liked or at least appreciated. So I realize we have to resist societies peer pressure and influence, or at least be able to recognize its influence.
Anyway after reading what James wrote here I thought it was good what was taking place in the world with those preaching the full gospel, but at the same time I realize the church world is in pretty rough shape in America. Its good that God has men out there who are sensitive to the Spirit of God. where do we fit in? Our purpose may be to lead as examples as the Spirit of God directs us. We all do have a part in the Kingdom it's just the finding out where He will lead us. Some here may have considered all of this but I wanted to think about it out in the open before all.
Okay concerning the faith message, I know its been given a bad rap and some have carried it to extremes. But I cannot get away from the fact that Jesus is the one who promoted this whole idea of faith in God. I think its about understanding that the Lord is the Great God and nothing "is" impossible with Him. We can confidently lay our lives before Him in this life. Is anything to hard for the Lord?
Ultimately eternity it is the most important "great pearl", that is worth dying for. Is it so important?, that we try to preserve our life in this life and lose such a great gem because our flesh would desire this world and its ways. I'm talking about all the little foxes that spoil the vine if you understand what I am trying to say. I'm not talking about going out into a life of sin but I am speaking of any area the world would have a draw to want us to conform to its way.
The flesh, the mind, the world is a daily wrestling match, yielding our spirits to God's Spirit has to be our constant goal. We should settle for nothing less.
Well James I was blessed by what you shared here, I hope all of us can comprehend what we have been brought into. The words of A.W.Pink speak to this generation just as loudly as when he spoke them to his generation. Being able to reach this generation by what we have learned and continue to learn is an ongoing process.
Gary
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11579 is a reply to message #11576] |
Sun, 03 May 2015 19:44 |
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william
Messages: 1465
Registered: January 2006 |
Senior Member
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I keep thinking the problem is that many are not being taught the Bible correctly and they have not a clue of what Jesus told His disciples.
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I think you are right here but the question that remains is why aren't they being taught?
Each one of us has been given the ministry of reconciliation --2Cor 5:18-19. BTW, Paul says this twice, in both verses:
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[2Co 5:18-19 KJV] 18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
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One thing that I've noticed over the years that I've been a Christian is that when truth is proclaimed it might take a while but eventually, over time, there is a sea-change in people's thinking.
One of the most recent things that I've seen, for example, is the gradual attitude shift concerning authoritarianism. You don't have to look back too far to the time where the Church was governed by a hierarchical clergy hell-bent on making sure its rules were followed. It matters not whether we are talking about so-called biblical 'rules' or simply religious rules that stem from the traditions of men.
Of course authoritarianism, I'm convinced, is one of the characteristics of the gentiles who "love to exercise authority" as Jesus said:
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[Mat 20:25-26 KJV] 25 But Jesus called them [unto him], and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
[Mar 10:42-45 KJV] 42 But Jesus called them [to him], and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. 43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: 44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. 45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
[Luk 22:25-27 KJV] 25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. 26 But ye [shall] not [be] so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve. 27 For whether [is] greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? [is] not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.
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Now these verses have always been there and to some extent have been taught but, and this is only my opinion based upon a rather limited exposure to Christian circles... but it seems to me that folks are beginning to grasp the significance of what Jesus said.
Specifically I'm thinking about a recent case where there was a minister who was for all intents and purposes very sound in his biblical teaching yet the ministry organization he founded was recently crippled because of his heavy-handed administrative style.
As it turns out it was the people who had been taught the Word under his ministry who finally said --ENOUGH! (Goggle Mars Hill if you are interested in the details). Now this is just one example and it might not be the best but it does show what can happen over time when the Word of God is taught. Eventually it will produce fruit.
Which brings me back to the original question that was raised by your comment --Why aren't they being taught?
God sets teachers into Church but we know that they aren't always shining examples of the servants that Jesus mentions in the above verses. But if I'm right, there will come a time when this misguided authoritarianism will be stamped out once and for all, and it just might usher us all into a better understanding of Christianity. Then maybe your statement can be reversed: They won't be clueless any more!
Blessings,
William
I want to believe!
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11582 is a reply to message #11579] |
Mon, 04 May 2015 13:36 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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| william wrote on Sun, 03 May 2015 14: |
Specifically I'm thinking about a recent case where there was a minister who was for all intents and purposes very sound in his biblical teaching yet the ministry organization he founded was recently crippled because of his heavy-handed administrative style.
As it turns out it was the people who had been taught the Word under his ministry who finally said --ENOUGH! (Goggle Mars Hill if you are interested in the details).
Blessings,
William
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I hadn't heard about that and it happened last fall, Wow! I can see where that could (and possibly should)happen at a lot of churches...The example Jesus set of a self sacrificing servant who willingly lays down his life for others seems often lost on those who think they have authority over everyone and are accountable to no one.
Hopefully Mark will be restored in a humble godly manner and there'll not be another Todd B. situation.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11585 is a reply to message #11583] |
Thu, 07 May 2015 12:21 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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God Always Has The Big Picture in Mind...
My daily reading has me in Hebrews this week and as I read chapter twelve once more I'm reminded of 'the big picture'. We're reminded that there is always a great cloud of witnesses watching us; we're exhorted to lay aside every weights and the sin that so easily besets us and run the race set before us with patience; we're told to look to Jesus as the author and finisher of our faith; to remember the sacrifice He paid for us.
In verse ten we're reminded how God corrects/chastens us for our own good...for the purpose that we might be partakers of His Holiness. Later on we're reminded that without holiness no man will see The Lord. God doesn't deal with us as we deserve, but in love, He reminds and exhorts, encourages and shows us patience, He corrects and chastens.
What an awesome God we have, He gave of Himself, not because He had to or that in any way we deserved it, but because He LOVES us...and that love is displayed every single time He grants repentance and restores...that we might be partakers of His Holiness...To behold His Glory for eternity.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11587 is a reply to message #11585] |
Tue, 19 May 2015 16:30 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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We're invited to Partake.......don't forget the invitation.
There is going to be a marriage supper of The Lamb, we're invited, don't lose sight of the big picture. Rev. 19:6-9
There have been several passages of scripture that have kinda jumped out at me lately pertaining to God's invitation extended to us. First I noticed in Hebrews 12 where we're reminded that chastisement is from God designed for our good so we may partake in His Holiness. Later we're told without holiness no man will see The Lord.
In II Peter 1 we're encouraged concerning the promises given us from God for this purpose..."that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." What is 'the divine nature' we're invited to partake of? His Holiness. We can't fellowship with God without having our lives changed by The Holy Spirit to reflect His attributes. Hebrews 12 explains that it's for our profit that we're corrected. II Peter 1 tells us that we're to be diligent to add these attributes to our character, virtue, faith, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, kindness, and charity. Not only are we admonished to be diligent in these attributes as part of our character, but we're told without them we're blind and can not see 'the big picture' of God and His plan of redemption for man.
Peter goes on to use the word remembrance over and over again, because remembering is of utmost importance. The Word of The LORD is filled with "take heed", "be diligent", to repeat the law to our children, let it not depart from before our eyes, to hide it in our hearts...to remember and DO it(obey).
A thought to remember, we've not arrived yet, the finish line is still ahead and there is yet a race to be ran...may God grant us grace to finish well, trusting Him to complete the work He has begun in us......that we may be partakers of His Holiness and divine nature, enjoying His presence for all eternity.
[Updated on: Tue, 19 May 2015 16:35]
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11588 is a reply to message #11587] |
Mon, 25 May 2015 16:25 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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"Yea, in the way of Thy judgments, O LORD, have we waited for Thee; the desire of our soul is to Thy name, and to the remembrance of Thee."
Isaiah 26:8
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11589 is a reply to message #11588] |
Thu, 28 May 2015 13:59 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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"And this is love, that we walk after His commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wroght, but that we receive a full reward."
2 John 1:6-8
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11594 is a reply to message #11464] |
Fri, 05 June 2015 14:10 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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God turns around the most powerful of men when he was filled with pride and spoke against God and His people.
| james wrote on Fri, 26 December 2014 08:57 |
Pride in the life of two kings...
"Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall." Proverbs 16:18
Pride is a sin God hates, it lifts a man up in his own mind to a place of deception and nothing good ever comes from it. In II Chronicles 32 there are two kings described, both allowed pride in their lives at some point, yet they dealt with it differently and their endings reflected it.
Sennacherib was king over Assyria and Hezekiah was king over Judah. Sennacherib in pride and foolishness came against Jerusalem to war against Judah and king Hezekiah. He railed against God announcing in pride of his great conquest among all the other nations he had defeated and their gods. He blasphemed God and tried to turn the hearts of the people from trusting God. Hezekiah and Isaiah prayed for deliverance and God sent an angel and Assyria and Sennacherib was defeated and returned to their own country in shame. And his end came about at the hands of his own people, his pride broken and in shame...because he came against The one true God and His chosen people.
Hezekiah too allowed pride in his life later on. He was given an additional 15 years to life by God after his sickness, but he didn't give glory to God as he should have; pride entered his heart. Yet we're told in II Chronicles 32:26 "Notwithstanding Hezekiah humbled himself for the pride of his heart, both he and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the wrath of The LORD came not upon them in the days of Hezekiah."
And later in the chapter we're told that Hezekiah was buried in the chiefest of the sepulchers of the kings and he was honored by Jerusalem at his death.
Two kings, different endings due to different choices made in dealing with pride in the heart. Pride blinds, but if a person will humble themselves and turn to God in repentance He will restore, defend, and deliver them.
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In Isaiah 37:29&34 God answers Sennacherib's boasting:
"Because thy rage against me, and thy tumult, is come up into mine ears, therefore will I put my hook in thy nose, and my bridle in thy lips, and I will turn thee back by the way by which thou camest."
"By the way that he came, by the same shall he return, and shall not come into this city, saith The LORD."
Sennacherib never came into Jerusalem and returned to his own land and was killed at the hands of his own sons while worshipping 'his' god.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11595 is a reply to message #11594] |
Sun, 07 June 2015 17:15 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Encouragement from God's Word...
Isaiah with it's 66 chapters, has a lot to say, messianic prophecies, prophecies of destruction, ect. but also promises of hope. In chapter thirty five there is a wonderful promise that should cause the believer's heart to rejoice and shout for joy.
"Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; He will come and save you."
Isaiah 35:4
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11625 is a reply to message #11595] |
Mon, 29 June 2015 11:29 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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"I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God, for He hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, He hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.
For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth, so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations."
Isaiah 61:10-11
[Updated on: Mon, 29 June 2015 11:31]
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11634 is a reply to message #11625] |
Fri, 03 July 2015 13:54 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Righteousness, Our Gift from God...
I was meditating on God's gifts to us and the most important ones. Of course we know that everything we have is a gift, from the air we breathe to our daily needs being met, from the grace leading to salvation, the faith to believe, and the righteousness counted unto us because of Jesus' righteousness.
Romans chapter five explains how we come to the place of being declared righteous through Christ' sacrifice at Calvary, as well as how His righteousness is the gift unto us. We inherited the sin nature from Adam which brought us to condemnation because of his actions; but the 'Good News' is that by the actions of another (Christ) we have be freed from that condemnation and been declared to be in right standing with God (restored/reconciled). And it's a gift, freely given, yet at the greatest of all costs...we're given the gift of righteousness.
"For if by one man's offence death reigned by one, much more they which receive abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation, even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Romans 5:17-18
Here's the link to a sound teaching on righteousness, our gift from God that I came across after posting this today...
http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/righteousness-every -christians-gift-from-god
[Updated on: Fri, 03 July 2015 17:47]
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11671 is a reply to message #11634] |
Thu, 16 July 2015 13:56 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ; for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
Rom. 1:16
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11676 is a reply to message #11671] |
Thu, 23 July 2015 13:50 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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Occupy Til I Come...Luke 19:10-13
Occupy means to continue on with business/trade. Why did Jesus discern that this lesson/parable needed to be given? 'Because' they thought God's Kingdom was coming immediately. He was showing them that their responsibility was to continue with what He had instructed them to do..."Go ye therefore into all the world, making disciples..."; proclaiming The Gospel (good news); living daily with expectation and hope of His return, yet going about the business of growing the Kingdom/Church/Body of Christ...Learning to love one another and live in unity as believers; learning and growing in holiness as we seek first The Kingdom and His Righteousness; growing in faith and grace as we practice His teachings; being an example to this world of what Kingdom we belong by our separation from the sinfulness of this earthly kingdom.
We're told that 'this Gospel' must be preached in ALL the world.....THEN the end will come. (Matt.24:14)We, the Body of Christ are given an important task, taking the message of reconciliation unto the nations so that everyone will have opportunity to 'believe upon The Lord Jesus Christ' and be saved. Is this our focus? Has it been? If it hasn't isn't it time we made it?
[Updated on: Thu, 23 July 2015 23:52]
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11678 is a reply to message #11676] |
Sat, 25 July 2015 09:39 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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| james wrote on Thu, 23 July 2015 09:50 |
Occupy Til I Come...Luke 19:10-13
Occupy means to continue on with business/trade. Why did Jesus discern that this lesson/parable needed to be given? 'Because' they thought God's Kingdom was coming immediately. He was showing them that their responsibility was to continue with what He had instructed them to do..."Go ye therefore into all the world, making disciples..."; proclaiming The Gospel (good news); living daily with expectation and hope of His return, yet going about the business of growing the Kingdom/Church/Body of Christ...Learning to love one another and live in unity as believers; learning and growing in holiness as we seek first The Kingdom and His Righteousness; growing in faith and grace as we practice His teachings; being an example to this world of what Kingdom we belong by our separation from the sinfulness of this earthly kingdom.
We're told that 'this Gospel' must be preached in ALL the world.....THEN the end will come. (Matt.24:14)We, the Body of Christ are given an important task, taking the message of reconciliation unto the nations so that everyone will have opportunity to 'believe upon The Lord Jesus Christ' and be saved. Is this our focus? Has it been? If it hasn't isn't it time we made it?
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I was thinking about this and thought that its easy to get caught up in the cares of this life, and be deceived by the allure of riches and think were following Jesus but its on our own terms. You know, go to church three times a week, throw some money in a basket and our minds think we've done our duty now we can live our lives the way we want.
I don't think no one is intentionally thinking this but the flesh loves to have its way and to choose what we want rather then what the Lord is saying to us. Its easy to fall into a rut and think were pleasing God but in reality were doing it our way.
I think this is part of hearing they hear but do not hear, and seeing they see but do not see. The spirit in man can clearly see what it says, but then they cannot see it because of the flesh doesn't want to hear it. This is why many in this end times can look at clear passages of scripture and will explain it away and try to make it say something it is not saying. For instance the Baptism of the Spirit, many can read it but they cannot see it is for them. That's just one example among many.
We have to be willing and open to see it and then believe what the Lord is saying rather then what we think He is saying.
But its only for those who have ears to hear then make an effort to obey what the Lord makes very clear in His Word. Its not about rules but understanding the way of the Spirit in the Lord.
Gary
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11682 is a reply to message #11678] |
Mon, 27 July 2015 11:58 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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| Gary wrote on Sat, 25 July 2015 04:39 |
We have to be willing and open to see it and then believe what the Lord is saying rather then what we think He is saying.
But its only for those who have ears to hear then make an effort to obey what the Lord makes very clear in His Word. Its not about rules but understanding the way of the Spirit in the Lord.
Gary
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Just this morning I was thinking back about a time in my life when I 'thought' The Word was teaching that any contact with anyone connected with medical science was sin(trusting in the arm of the flesh); when, if a sister had on make up or a pair of slacks she was in sin; when anyone who didn't believe as I did(or rather as I'd been taught to believe) wasn't truly following Jesus and wasn't special to God, like me, an overcomer. I remember thinking if a person hadn't been baptized in the manner shown in the book of Acts(in Jesus' Name) they hadn't really been baptized...although Jesus clearly said to His disciples to go make disciples, baptizing them in The Name of The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
I'm willing to say, based on past experiences, that there are things I think I know now that 'He is saying', that I'll find out someday that I was misunderstanding and misapplying.
Things that lead to bondage, to an exalted opinion of oneself, to judgment of others without self examination, or confusion...are NOT what He is saying to me in His Word...that tells me I'm totally reliant upon Him and His Mercy and Grace...that's a good place to come to, because without pride, self righteousness, and hypocriticalness blinding me I can start to 'see' Truth and start applying it...with The Holy Spirit teaching me.
If this rings true for anyone else, great, if not that just means that God did it for you before now...cause I don't know of anyone from our like past who didn't at one time or another have these beliefs.
The good news? Praise God for GRACE...
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11684 is a reply to message #11682] |
Tue, 28 July 2015 22:30 |
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Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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Just this morning I was thinking back about a time in my life when I 'thought' The Word was teaching that any contact with anyone connected with medical science was sin(trusting in the arm of the flesh); when, if a sister had on make up or a pair of slacks she was in sin; when anyone who didn't believe as I did(or rather as I'd been taught to believe) wasn't truly following Jesus and wasn't special to God, like me, an overcomer. I remember thinking if a person hadn't been baptized in the manner shown in the book of Acts(in Jesus' Name) they hadn't really been baptized...although Jesus clearly said to His disciples to go make disciples, baptizing them in The Name of The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
I'm willing to say, based on past experiences, that there are things I think I know now that 'He is saying', that I'll find out someday that I was misunderstanding and misapplying.
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I don't quite understand what you are talking about. Jesus never said anything about doctors, women wearing pants, etc. etc..
In fact He came against all the rules and attitudes that the Pharisees and scribes lorded over people. The Pharisees were constantly trying to accuse Him of not following the tradition of the Elders, by keeping certain sabbath practices.
What I am trying to say is when you read the Gospels you do not see the Lord coming with some creed for everyone to follow. It's more about developing a relationship and learning to know the Lord through the Spirit. In other words Jesus did not say never take a pill, see a doctor, or like one minister said you cannot even work for a doctor, like in remodeling his house. This is stuff that has been read into the script so to speak, or things have been rationalized to fit certain scriptures.
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If this rings true for anyone else, great, if not that just means that God did it for you before now...cause I don't know of anyone from our like past who didn't at one time or another have these beliefs.
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You sound like your mad about something here. I think by now everyone is through that stage of things. Its just something that happened in life (at our meetings), and we have to pick up the pieces and move on.
For myself I'm trying to see what did the Lord say and what did He mean to imply. In other words, What is the mind of the Lord. If anyone thinks the Word is saying something different then what I am saying please share it, I'm willing to look at the Word of God to try and understand it in the right context. I even agree with Marilyn somewhat on this ten nations being of Arab descent and have shared it with a lot of people. I don't think the common market nations are the ones mentioned in Daniel. She gave a good case on this with scripture.
One other thing, I don't believe there is a church in America or ever has been one, that does not hold to some type of legalism or peer pressure from others to conform to their way of thinking. If this was not true we would not have a thousand different brands of "churchianity'. I think its a rut that men have a tendency to fall into, and it started with Luther in the reformation and has progressed to our day and time. Our group was not the only one and never will be the only one.
Another thing, following a man's teaching and never questioning anything he says because of fear of reprisal is a terrible situation to be in. Peer pressure through church members and trying to put a show on in the House of God goes on all the time even to this day. You see very few ministers that see themselves as slaves or servants to the body of Christ.
Gary
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| Re: Bulletin Board [message #11687 is a reply to message #11684] |
Wed, 29 July 2015 11:22 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
Senior Member |
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No, dear brother in Christ, I wasn't 'mad' when I was reflecting on the post you wrote about 'thinking we understood what something The Word was saying'; I was just bringing up how easily people (me, in the past) have been, and are influenced by those who are their teachers or peers and the attitudes it leads to, actually more than just attitudes, bondage and legalism while being filled with pride and hypocrisy.
I think William understood my point, I think you will too if you stop and reflect on it. Yes, we should put it in the past.....but it's also good to remember the past mistakes/sins in order to remain both humble and not to fall into the trap of repeating them(especially thinking we know and understand scripture more than we actually do).
If the things I mentioned that have gone on in my life and the 'group' I was in don't ring true in your experiences, that's wonderful...like I've shared before, I don't think all Christians mature at the same rate due to what ever the reasons...but again, praise God for His abundant GRACE.
I love you Gary and I'm not offended or bent out of sorts, mad or frustrated...I was just sharing my 'feelings'... 
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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