Home » Theological Doctrine » Biblical Theology » What did the 12 Apostles Teach?
| What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12907] |
Sat, 30 November 2019 23:18  |
 Marilyn Crow
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I would like to discuss this topic of what the 12 disciples taught.
Before the Lord ascended into heaven, He told His disciples -
`All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.` (Matt. 28: 18 - 20)
So what did the 12 Apostles teach? Looking at Peter`s sermon in Acts we can see that his main emphasis was that Jesus was both Lord and Christ.
`Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.` (Acts 2: 36)
So we see the 12 Apostles taught -
1, Jesus is Lord and Christ.
2. They baptised people.
3. They would tell them of receiving the Holy Spirit.
4. They would teach people about the end of the Gentiles ruling.
We teach all that too.
Anything else you think they would teach?
Marilyn C
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12908 is a reply to message #12907] |
Mon, 02 December 2019 05:10  |
Marilyn Crow
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After Jesus rose from the dead and was about to ascend to the Father, He spoke to the 12 disciples. They seemed to think that Jesus would perhaps set up His kingdom rule through Israel in their time.
`Therefore when they had come together, they (12 apostles) asked Him, (Jesus) "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom (rule) to Israel? (Acts 1: 6)
So the disciples were looking for the restoration of their nation, Israel to be restored to power over the nations as God promised. However Jesus told them that it was not for them to know when this would happen. They were to be His witnesses in Jerusalem, Judah and the ends of the earth. (Acts 1:8)
Thus we know that in God`s timing Israel will be God`s rulership over the nations.
This is a wonderful truth we all know from God`s word.
[Updated on: Mon, 02 December 2019 05:11]
Marilyn C
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12916 is a reply to message #12908] |
Tue, 03 December 2019 04:28 |
Marilyn Crow
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After the Lord ascended He appointed another Apostle named (Saul)Paul. He hadn`t walked with the Lord as the 12 disciples/Apostles had but still He was an Apostle.
To be one of the 12 Apostles they had to have been with Jesus while He was on earth. We read concerning the appointment of a replacement of Judas.
`Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.` (Acts 1: 21 & 22)
Thus we see that the 12 Apostles were appointed because they walked with Jesus while He was on earth and thus they could witness to His life, death, resurrection and ascension.
Other Apostles were appointed by the Lord after He had ascended to the Father.
Marilyn C
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12917 is a reply to message #12916] |
Tue, 03 December 2019 04:58 |
Marilyn Crow
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So is there any difference in Apostleship, of the 12 Apostles witnessing of Christ`s ascension, and Paul`s Apostleship when Christ ascended?
The 12 Apostles actually witnessed the Lord`s ascension, whereas Paul spoke of it by revelation of the Lord.
`Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,...` (Eph. 1: 1)
When Christ ascended, `He Himself gave some to be apostles...` (Eph.4: 11)
`But, I make known to you brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.` (Gal. 1: 11 & 12)
So why didn`t the Lord just get Paul to learn from the 12 Apostles about His life and resurrection?
[Updated on: Tue, 03 December 2019 05:00]
Marilyn C
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12921 is a reply to message #12917] |
Tue, 03 December 2019 17:14 |
james
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One answer is for the presentation of The Gospel to the Gentiles and establishing the church. God could have had Paul learn from any of the twelve or Gamaliel, but we know from scripture that God chose Paul before he was born to reveal the mystery of the body of Christ ( Ephesians 1-2-3
and Romans 11 and other places)
Also we know that most of the Twelve ministered to the house of Israel and though Peter branched out later to some Gentiles , it was primarily Paul.
Also we know that there are unique qualifications to be an apostle, one had to be a witness to Jesus' life, ministry, and resurrection as well as appointed of God. Paul being the exception but chosen of God. Not everyone who witnessed The resurrected Christ and was a follower was an apostle, these people were disciples. God used those men for the foundation of the church and with the firm foundation having been laid He no longer used apostles in the Biblical qualifying sense. I know many denominations have claimed to have apostles throughout church history but none qualify according to scripture.
[Updated on: Tue, 03 December 2019 20:02]
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12922 is a reply to message #12921] |
Tue, 03 December 2019 23:34 |
Marilyn Crow
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Thank you for entering the discussion, James. Some good thoughts there. However I do have a few things that I see need looking at more closely.
1. Apostles.
Yes the 12 Apostles had to have been with Jesus and witnessed His ascension. (Acts 1: 21 & 22) We both agree on that.
Then when the Lord ascended -
`He Himself gave some to be Apostles.` (Eph. 4: 11)
Notice the `s` on the word Apostles. These apostles were given of the Lord AFTER He ascended.
Then we see in 1 Thess.1: 1 & 2: 7,
`Paul, Silvanus and Timothy,....` `WE did not seek glory from men either from you or from others, when we might have made demands as APOSTLES of Christ.`
`Greet Andronicus and Junias, my kinsmen, and fellow prisoners, who are outstanding among the APOSTLES, who also were in Christ before me.` (Rom. 16: 7
[Updated on: Wed, 04 December 2019 00:03]
Marilyn C
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12923 is a reply to message #12922] |
Wed, 04 December 2019 00:06 |
Marilyn Crow
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2. Peter having to be told to go to the Gentiles.
James said `...we know that most of the Twelve ministered to the house of Israel and though Peter branched out later to some Gentiles ,..`
Let`s look at this point.
Peter was given a vision of unclean animals and told to `Rise, Peter; kill and eat.` he told the Lord `Not so.` Later he thought about the vision when some Gentiles came to see him. The Spirit told Peter to go with them. When he arrived at Cornelius` house Peter said to them -
`You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean.` (Acts 10: 28)
Peter did not have the understanding to go to the Gentiles till the Holy Spirit led him. Then later we see that Peter was trying to make the Gentiles live as the Jews.
`Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I (Paul) withstood him to his face because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.
And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? ` (Gal. 2: 11 14)
Again we see that Peter did not have an understanding of what God was doing with the Gentiles. Peter thought the Gentiles had to fit in with the Jews.
And as you stated James, it was Paul that the ascended Lord gave the revelation of the Body of Christ. Thus we see that the 12 Apostles did not have that revelation.
James said -`...God chose Paul before he was born to reveal the mystery of the body of Christ ( Ephesians 1-2-3 and Romans 11 and other places).
Thus we see that the ascended Lord was giving more revelation by His Spirit to Paul and later other ascension ministries.
Marilyn C
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12924 is a reply to message #12923] |
Wed, 04 December 2019 05:32 |
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william
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I guess I missed the question and got the answer instead.
Are you saying that the original 12 were limited in their understanding? Well that's obvious... they didn't seem to have a clue about the most important doctrine the bible teaches, even though Jesus over and over revealed to them, that He must suffer and die (just like the OT animal sacrifices--the OT-type that foreshadowed His own propitiatory work as the Lamb of God.)
The Jews, up to that point, knew that THEY were God's chosen people and didn't comprehend the concept that He might be getting ready to redeem the whole world of gentiles! (John 10:6). He goes on to explain to them that He had other sheep outside of the Hebrew fold. Sheep that would, after hearing His voice, become part of His fold (one fold under one Shepherd).
[Jhn 10:6, 16 KJV] 6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. ... 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.
I'm not clear about your point so I may be way off in my answer.
I guess I should also supply my question to be specific: Does Jesus indicate that there will be two folds of sheep perpetually existing, or just one?
James has already listed the Romans 11 passage and I would expand it to include the two previous chapters which show that Paul, an Israelite, considered himself to be a part of the Church (gentiles and Jews--altogether in one fold!) and that there would be a point in time when "...all Israel shall be saved!
[Rom 11:26 KJV] 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Just note the language in chapter 11: he doesn't use the term sheep-fold here but for all practical purposes he's saying the same thing by using the olive tree to show that the Israelites were the natural branches and that we, as gentiles, were grafted into the one olive tree and that Israel would be grafted back in because they were natural olive tree branches.
Blessings,
William
[Updated on: Wed, 04 December 2019 05:46]
I want to believe!
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12925 is a reply to message #12907] |
Wed, 04 December 2019 06:40 |
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william
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What did the apostles teach? Well, to use a popular device, what did they not teach?
They didn't teach that we should erect an alter so that everyone could gather around it on Sunday.
They didn't teach that we should erect a building and call that the "church" in the stead of His people.
They didn't teach that we should celebrate Jesus' birthday (nor any of the rituals that go along with that holiday.)
They didn't teach that the infilling of the Holy Spirit was synonymous with the new-birth experience.
They didn't teach that the gift of tongues was evil or something that would pass away after the first century.
They didn't teach that the gifts of the Spirit were only for the first century Church.
They didn't teach tithing.
They didn't teach legalism or "keeping the law" (at least they didn't after Paul straightened them out!)
They didn't teach baptismal regeneration.
They didn't teach infant baptism.
They didn't teach that taking over the government was every Christian's duty. (By voting, arms, or any other means!)
Okay, what did they teach?
They taught Jesus Christ crucified and resurrected for our sins.
They taught us about His provision of healing (both physical and spiritual).
They taught us about His second coming.
They taught us about His kingdom on earth and heaven.
They taught us how to live while waiting for His coming.
They taught us about our relationship with the world (in it, but not of it).
They taught us about servant-hood and the importance of loving both our enemies and our neighbors.
They taught us about the treasure in earthen vessels (2Cor4:7).
They taught us about the meaning of our trials (James 1).
They taught us about persecution (and its purpose).
They taught us about true wisdom (and how to get it!).
They taught us about faith. (Faith in God... being probably the most important thing ever: [Heb 11:6 KJV] 6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.)
For me as a gentile they (as does the whole of Scripture) taught me the grand purpose of God (His self-revelation) and that I am a partaker of His grace!!!!
Oh yeah, they taught us about His wonderful GRACE!
Blessings,
William
[Updated on: Wed, 04 December 2019 06:45]
I want to believe!
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12926 is a reply to message #12925] |
Wed, 04 December 2019 20:35 |
james
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Great post, William
Grace, Grace, God's amazing Grace, that saved a wretch like me.
The revelation of Grace and the depth of God's love is the most wonderful truth a person could ever experience. It sends pride and hypocrisy and unforgiveness fleeing, and fills the heart with gratitude.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12927 is a reply to message #12926] |
Wed, 04 December 2019 22:26 |
Marilyn Crow
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Yes I agree James, William has written very helpful and detailed comments.
So does that mean we all agree that the ascension Apostles were given more truth concerning the Lord`s purposes than the 12 Apostles?
Marilyn C
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12928 is a reply to message #12927] |
Wed, 04 December 2019 23:11 |
james
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I'm not familiar with the terminology you're using "ascension apostles", is it meaning those appointed after Jesus ascended back to the Father?
We know from scripture that Paul was given the revelation and calling to establish the body of Christ and present the Gospel to the Gentiles. And while originally the twelve didn't "get it" ; when The Holy Ghost, whom Jesus had promised (John 14:26 & Acts 1:8) came , they remembered all He had taught them (they got the big picture)
I think they understood more each day as they learned of The Holy Spirit what God's plan was, Plus as Paul ministered they grew in this understanding. As William said, they got it straightened out.
[Updated on: Thu, 05 December 2019 00:31]
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12930 is a reply to message #12928] |
Thu, 05 December 2019 00:02 |
Marilyn Crow
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Hi James,
Yes I use the term `ascension apostles` to mean those the Lord appointed after His ascension, to distinguish between the 12 apostles who had to have walked with the Lord and witnessed His ascension. I think it is a term others use too, and not something I made up.
I do agree that the 12 apostles came to a better understanding of God`s purposes, through Paul and the Holy Spirit.
Marilyn C
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12937 is a reply to message #12930] |
Fri, 06 December 2019 23:32 |
Marilyn Crow
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In my OP I wrote -
4. They (Apostles) would teach about the end of the Gentiles ruling.
We see that Jesus taught the disciples what it would be like in the tribulation just before His coming to set up His rulership through Israel over the nations.
He quoted from the prophet Daniel concerning a wicked person setting himself up in the holy place, as God. He warned that the people of Israel would have to flee for their lives under great persecution. And He encouraged them that although it seemed hopeless that He, their Bridegroom would come to them and deliver them.
The Lord said He would come with His holy angels and gather His people who had scattered to the ends of the earth. (Matt. 24 & 25 etc)
What an encouragement for us in the Body of Christ to read of such a faithful God who will yet fulfil His promises to His people of Israel.
Marilyn C
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12940 is a reply to message #12937] |
Sat, 07 December 2019 19:32 |
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william
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Marilyn Crow wrote on Fri, 06 December 2019 23:32In my OP I wrote -
4. They (Apostles) would teach about the end of the Gentiles ruling.
We see that Jesus taught the disciples what it would be like in the tribulation just before His coming to set up His rulership through Israel over the nations.
He quoted from the prophet Daniel concerning a wicked person setting himself up in the holy place, as God. He warned that the people of Israel would have to flee for their lives under great persecution. And He encouraged them that although it seemed hopeless that He, their Bridegroom would come to them and deliver them.
The Lord said He would come with His holy angels and gather His people who had scattered to the ends of the earth. (Matt. 24 & 25 etc)
What an encouragement for us in the Body of Christ to read of such a faithful God who will yet fulfil His promises to His people of Israel.
Not to be a stick in the mud and certainly not to deny a future fulfillment of the promises to Israel, your statement "They (Apostles) would teach about the end of the Gentiles ruling..." intrigues me.
Where do the apostles teach this?
I know you could say that Jesus commissioned them to teach/observe all things he commanded and one could assume that they taught stuff that isn't recorded in Scripture (from both Jesus' teachings and the OT--especially Daniel) but saying they taught it without showing where they taught it isn't a very good methodology to make a point.
As I see it they seem to almost exclusively focus on the Church and not Israel (as it relates to your statement) when they asked Jesus about the restoration of Israel and He told them it wasn't for them to know the times or the seasons. Seemingly, from that exhortation, they dropped the subject.
Unless you know something I don't, I'd pretty much say that this falls into the area of things that the Apostles did not teach, and not "Things that the 12 Apostles [did] Teach" category.
Blessings,
William
[Updated on: Sat, 07 December 2019 19:47]
I want to believe!
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12943 is a reply to message #12940] |
Sat, 07 December 2019 21:37 |
Marilyn Crow
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Hi William,
I agree. We need to show where they taught it.
First, as you said the Lord told the disciples/apostles, that it wasn`t for them to know the times and seasons regarding His setting up of His kingdom through Israel. (ie. not when set up)
We know that the Lord said He would come as a thief to Israel.
And we also know that when the Lord ascended He told His Body, (through Paul) that they were not in darkness, (as Israel) and thus the Day of the Lord would not come as a thief to them.
`But you, brethren are not in darkness that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light...` (1 Thess. 5: 4 & 5)
Now as to where the Apostles taught about the details of the end of the Gentiles rule, we see that the Apostle Matthew wrote about what Jesus said. I did put that reference in my last post.
regards, Marilyn.
[Updated on: Sat, 07 December 2019 21:41]
Marilyn C
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12948 is a reply to message #12945] |
Sun, 08 December 2019 00:42 |
Marilyn Crow
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Hi William,
I do think many thousands of believers over the centuries, let alone those of Matthew`s time have learnt about what Jesus taught, from Matthew`s writings.
Not quite sure what you mean in that last sentence. Can you explain more? Thank you.
Marilyn C
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12951 is a reply to message #12950] |
Sun, 08 December 2019 04:11 |
Marilyn Crow
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So to those still reading....
As the 12 Apostles matured we can read of their teaching in their epistles and letters. We realise that they have matured in the Lord and have important truths to tell us. Some of which are -
In John`s letters - `he who does not love his brother (sister) whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?` (1 John 4: 20)
In Peter`s epistles - Becoming like Christ through various trials and suffering. (1 Peter 4: 1)
In James` epistle - Friendship, (partnership) with the world is enmity with God. (James 4: 4)
Marilyn C
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12952 is a reply to message #12907] |
Sun, 08 December 2019 08:19 |
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william
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Marilyn, you misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm questioning your methodology. It's going to be very difficult to talk about the subject you brought out in your Op: (Which you chose to highlight when you specifically brought it up again in a later note.)
Quote:In my OP I wrote -
4. They (Apostles) would teach about the end of the Gentiles ruling.
... this is a tall order!
I simply pointed out that the way that you are going about trying to "teach about the end of the Gentiles ruling..." under the topic--What Did the 12 Apostles Teach--isn't the best way of going about it since they taught precious little about your subject. If the heading was--What does the Bible Teach--you'd have ample scripture references that you could use.
I believe in the doctrine that shows that the world's/gentile's kingdom is coming to an end. It's the Stone that smashes Nebuchadnezzar's great image and goes on to fill up the whole earth! In fact, it's God's promises to Israel that are on trial if we ignore the relevant Scriptures on the subject.
If you want to post without interruption and/or comments, by all means go ahead but if I were you I wouldn't keep on asking questions (presumably for us to answer) and making statements (that you don't want to be challenged on). If you don't want answers and comments from those reading (which I still am, btw) just say so and label it "Marilyn's Monologue". When you finish though, I'm going to have my say and then we can lock the topic so that it will remain a static post. (When I say that I'm going to "have my say" I just mean that I'm not going to leave it as a stand-alone teaching that represents my view or the view of all the participants here.)
Carry on.
William
[Updated on: Sun, 08 December 2019 09:14]
I want to believe!
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12954 is a reply to message #12952] |
Sun, 08 December 2019 22:22 |
Marilyn Crow
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Hi William,
I`m pleased to have others discuss with me here on this topic. I have talked with both you and James. I do appreciate others thoughts, that`s why we discuss. If there is a difference then we talk about it and get clarification. That`s how we learn from each other as well as from teachers.
And yes if I was just going to discuss the topic of what the Bible teaches of the end of the Gentiles rule, we would of course look at the whole Bible. However this topic is just related to what the 12 Apostles taught, so I am seeking out where they taught this, as it is a major doctrine concerning the coming kingdom rule of the King through Israel on earth. Glad you believe that also.
So I believe, the Apostle Matthew, by the Holy Spirit presents the Lord Jesus as the Messiah, the expectant King of the Jews. The gospel has many references to the Old Testament prophecies which are shown to be fulfilled in Jesus of Nazareth.
The genealogy proves Him to have a lineal and legal connection with David`s royal house, and with Abraham the father of the Hebrew race. Only in Matthew is the expression `the kingdom of heaven,` and the parables are about this kingdom rule of the Lords.
We read about the offer of the kingdom to the Jews and the deliberate rejection by them. However we also read of Jesus telling His disciples of tribulation such as has not been nor ever will be, which ends in His coming again in power and great glory. The reference to the `abomination of desolation,` (Matt. 24: 15)spoken about in Daniel (Dan. 8: 13 & 14) connects that time, (great tribulation) to what the prophet Daniel was given revelation of - the Gentile`s rulership for a time and then the kingdom rule of the Lord.
Thus we read, I believe, of the Apostle Matthew writing for Israel, (& others) to know that Jesus, the King of Israel will return and rule at the end of the Gentiles rulership.
We learn through these writings and come to know of God`s great purposes through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ in relation to Israel and the nations.
The Body of Christ revelation, I believe was a further revelation given to the Apostle Paul.
[Updated on: Sun, 08 December 2019 22:57]
Marilyn C
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| Re: What did the 12 Apostles Teach? [message #12959 is a reply to message #12954] |
Mon, 09 December 2019 21:50 |
Marilyn Crow
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Another revelation, I believe, the Apostles Matthew, Peter and John reveal, concerns leadership with the Lord over Israel - who, how, when & where.
The Apostle Matthew tells us who -
`Peter answered and said to Him, (Jesus), "See we have left all and followed you. Therefore what shall we have?" So Jesus said to them, "Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sit on the throne of His glory, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.` (Matt. 19: 27 & 28)
Thinking of the disciples/apostles, they were fishermen, a tax collector etc. So how do they have the ability to rule? The Apostle Peter tells us, I believe -
`Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all the things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature.....` (2 Peter 1: 2 - 4)
Then later we read from the Apostle John, that in the new heavens and new earth, that the 12 Apostles names will be `on the foundations of the walls` of the New Jerusalem.
`Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.` (Rev. 21: 14)
What a wonderful inheritance for the twelve Apostles.
Any thoughts?
[Updated on: Mon, 09 December 2019 21:50]
Marilyn C
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