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| Re: Church Government [message #11192 is a reply to message #11163] |
Fri, 09 May 2014 23:43   |
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 Gary
Messages: 1025
Registered: August 2008
Location: Indiana |
Senior Member |
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In light of this discussion I thought this article on leadership in the church and having fancy titles was quit apropos. This was shared originally on several Christian sites. There seems to be a need for fancy titles in Christian circles these days:
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A Message to Rev. Dr. Apostle Grand Poobah by Lee Grady
A Message to His Holy Highness the Worshipful Bishop Rev. Dr. Apostle Grand Poobah
Jesus just wasn’t into titles. We shouldn’t be either.
I am often asked if I have a title, and my answer doesn’t satisfy some people. I travel a lot, so I don’t consider myself a pastor. All kinds of labels have been pinned on me: Reverend, prophet, apostle … even bishop. Once I was introduced to a church as “Dr. Grady” and I almost crawled under my seat. I only have a college degree. There are no letters after my name.
I tell people: “You can call me Lee. Or if you want to sound formal, you can say, ‘Brother Grady.’”
“Jesus is the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Son of David, the Prince of Peace and the Apostle of our Confession. Yet when He came into this world He laid aside His heavenly glory and took on the lowly name of Jesus.”
Today it seems we’ve developed a title fetish. For a while everyone in charismatic circles was becoming a bishop (and some were installed into this office with rings, robes and funny-looking hats). Then the same guys with the pointy hats started calling themselves apostles. Then the prophets got jealous and started calling themselves apostles too! I knew one lady who, not to be outdone, required people to call her “Exalted Prophetess.”
Now the latest fad is requiring church folks to address certain people as apostles. (As in, “When Apostle Holy Moly arrives, please only address him as, ‘Apostle,’ and then make sure he is seated in a private room while his two adjutants, wearing dark glasses, guard his door.”) They’ve even invented an elaborate theology to go along with this ridiculous rule. It suggests that you can’t receive the true anointing from a man of God if you don’t honor him with the right title.
Sounds so very ooo-ooh spiritual to the naive. But it’s garbage.
Jesus didn’t play this religious game, especially when he was around the Grand Poobahs of His day—the long-robed scribes and Pharisees. After accusing them of loving the best seats in the synagogues, He pointed out that they loved to be called “Rabbi” by men (see Matt. 23:7).
Then He warned them: “But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. … the greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted” (v. 8-12, NASB).
People have quibbled over these words for centuries, insisting that ecclesiastical titles are not the problem; pride is what Jesus was rebuking. I would agree that Jesus was going to the root sin. But He was also asking these title-crazy guys if they’d be willing to ditch their labels and act like normal people.
When I was in China several years ago, I met some amazing leaders who had planted thousands of congregations. They had also spent a lot of time in jail for their faith, and they’d been beaten with iron rods for preaching the gospel. They were the bravest apostles I’ve ever met. But when I asked them if they used “apostle” as a title, one guy said: “We believe in those roles in the church. But we prefer to call each other ‘brother’ or ‘sister.’”
That settled it for me. A few years later I met Iftakhar, a Pakistani apostle who has oversight of 900 churches. He also has two scars on his arm from gunshots fired by Muslim extremists who have put a price on his head. When I asked him how I should address him, he smiled and said, “Iftakhar.”
If these two giants of the faith—and true apostles—don’t require to be addressed with titles, then Your Worshipful Grand Master Rev. Dr. Bishop Jones (who claims oversight of maybe four churches) shouldn’t wear his ministry role around his neck like a tacky neon name badge.
If people can’t see the anointing on your life through your character, then don’t cheapen the gospel by wearing a title you don’t deserve.
I’m not saying people shouldn’t use reverend, minister or even bishop to identify their roles in the church. But can we please dispense with the insecurity, and the childish “I’m more important than you” appellations, and get back to the simplicity of the gospel? Let’s get over ourselves!
Jesus is the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Son of David, the Prince of Peace and the Apostle of our Confession. Yet when He came into this world He laid aside His heavenly glory and took on the lowly name of Jesus. He wore no fancy robes. He demanded no titles. He did not come to be ministered to, but to minister. If we want to serve Him honorably, we must forsake our need for fame and cast our crowns at His feet.
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Gary
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| Re: Church Government [message #11193 is a reply to message #11192] |
Sat, 10 May 2014 00:15 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
Senior Member |
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Hi Gary,
So true, (the article) and here is some more that I received today.
Equipping Without Subduing (#439)
by Wayne
I get asked a lot of questions about elders and the five-fold ministry gifts of Ephesians 4. We know how religion has captures these terms and used them for top-down managers that often abuse people wittingly or unwittingly by thinking they have the responsibility to command others in Jesus' name. But what are they in the new creation? Instead of managing people or systems, the real fulfillment of these gifts is to equip others to live freely in Jesus, not to subdue them with their own wisdom or agendas. Our ministry contracts take people down this road all the time by making it more about the gift and their need for a following, rather than serving those who want to know him.
Wayne has a site called `the God journey.`
Marilyn C
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| Re: Church Government [message #11197 is a reply to message #11196] |
Sat, 10 May 2014 01:11 |
Mark L
Messages: 860
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
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I understand what you guys are saying but I do think if a man(women) stands in an office there is a place for saying it right out loud. Trying to be a grand poobah is one thing Just trying to fullfill a ministry is another.
To put it in different terms . . . If someone is going around making a big deal out of being a minister apostle prophet etc that is one thing. But to simply try to fullfill ones ministry is another.
I am of the opinion if a man has a true call to the apostolic/prophetic office he should (at the proper time) say so right out loud. Rev 2 says the sheep have the right to check fruit. Jesus said we will know the true and false by their fruit. Matt 6
I was taught that prophets/apostles don't carry calling cards. The point being they don't need to. I disagree entirely. Not using calling cards or business cards but making himself and his ministry known.
I think that apostles and prophets are going to be coming on the world scene in large numbers and we have to be able to check fruit to know who is of the Lord and who isn't.
To make it a little more personal and I'm not endorsing anyones ministry here. I did appreciate Bro. apostle coming here and making himself known the way he did. He said exactly what his office was what his purpose in coming here was and then offered a "little" fruit for checking. ie he told us how he got his ministry.
Now I am not endorsing or criticizing apostle. I'm simply commenting on the issue of senior ministry in the church making themselves known.
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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