Home » Theological Doctrine » The Occult » There's Power in the Blood
| Re: There's Power in the Blood [message #9363 is a reply to message #9357] |
Fri, 08 March 2013 01:06   |
 JWBTI
Messages: 253
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Location: Ohio |
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Smoking Flax (Tom) Message 9135 Nov 16,2012
It's been a long and bumpy road and we've been through a lot; including a six-year detour through the "Faith Message" which shipwrecked our trust in God. We have struggled with the issues of trusting God and relying on Him alone after being Self-Reliant "Overcomers," Members of God's Elite "End Time Army," trusting in Our Own Spiritual Prowess ("Faith") to get Us through this life and take Us to Our Special Rewards in heaven, reserved only for Those who “Overcome”.
We now believe the Biblical definition of faith.
************************************************************ **********
Tom:
Yes it has been a long road, but for me the Faith Message was a 4-lane Highway into Gods Word and Truth. It took me from total dependence on man to Trusting God for my every need. I was never taught by the Faith Message to be Self-Reliant: I was taught to Trust in The Lord ! Prov 3:1-6
I do want to be an Overcomer and be a part of Gods End Time Army, but it won’t
Be thru my own power but thru Faith and Trust in His Word by His Grace & Mercy !
As being a part of God’s Elite, as you say you thought you were. That thought had
Never crossed my mind in the years that I was at the Barn or in the New Building.
I was so blessed that God had given me the opportunity to hear The Message of
Faith and all that came with it. Elite, No! Humbled...Yes !
The Message of Faith was a Life Raft that took me out of the stormy waters and set
My feet on A Solid Rock: Jesus Christ !
That being said:
I wait for your Biblical definition of faith.
Ron
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| Re: There's Power in the Blood [message #9396 is a reply to message #9364] |
Mon, 25 March 2013 21:02 |
A_Smoking_Flax
Messages: 34
Registered: November 2012 |
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Gary...
Thank you for your encouragement, understanding and prayer.
I really need it.
Tom
Jesus told me this 33yrs ago: John 14:6 I still believe Him.
God's words shall be in your heart: you shall talk of them all day long. Deut 6:6-7
Test all things; Examine all things; Put all things on trial; Prove all things. 1Thes 5:21
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| Re: There's Power in the Blood [message #9399 is a reply to message #9398] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 01:49 |
JWBTI
Messages: 253
Registered: March 2007
Location: Ohio |
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Tom:
God said:
14 Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.
15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.
Psalms 91:14-16 (KJV)
Trust in His Word !
20 My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.
21 Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.
22 For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.
Prov 4:20-22 (KJV)
Ron
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| Re: There's Power in the Blood [message #9584 is a reply to message #9399] |
Fri, 21 June 2013 06:03 |
A_Smoking_Flax
Messages: 34
Registered: November 2012 |
Member |
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What is The Biblical Meaning of the Word Faith?
***
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, will, mind; and do not lean on your own understanding.
A dead calm is our enemy; a storm may prove our helper.
Controversy may arouse thought, and though thought may come the Divine change.
Charles Spurgeon
***
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes [great men].
There have always been only two choices for mankind:
TRUST IN GOD AND FOLLOW HIM!
OR,
TRUST IN MEN AND FOLLOW THEM!
Ever since I became a Christian, in 1980, men have been trying to convince me to trust, them instead of trusting God’s Word.
It has been my experience that the time has now come when:
“christians” no longer put up with true, sound Biblical teaching; instead, they stand against it, they ardently resist it.
“christians” no longer look for those who simply teach God’s Word; instead, they look for men who will please them by telling them only what they want to hear.
”christians” refuse to listen to, believe, or obey the truth of God’s Word; they do, however, listen to, believe, and obey man’s philosophies, man’s myths, man’s fables, man’s understanding, man’s evolutionary “science”; whatever is not true according to God’s Word.
I use the word “christians” to denote unsaved religious people who believe themselves to be Christians;
But who are not true Christians; they are, in fact, false converts.
They are “christian” in name only; they have no fruit. Matthew 7:16-20, 12:33
They have never been born again by the Word of God. Psalm 119:155, 1Peter 1:23
They do not follow Jesus. John 10:3-5
They do not listen to, understand, or obey God’s Word. John 8:43-45,47
They are not, nor have they ever been, genuine Christians; They never had a real relationship with Jesus.
They are only “religious” people, doing “christian” “works”. Matthew 7:21-27, Luke 13:24-28
I realize that Hobart Freeman believed that some of these verses prove that Christians can lose their salvation.
But I have come to understand, from God’s Word, that many of these verses—Matthew 7:21-27, and Luke 13:24-28 in particular—actually illustrate an infinitely more terrifying condition: being a false convert.
(For more on false converts and the eternal security of the believer, see note #1 below.)
In my testimony, How I Met The God of The Bible, I explained that:
It was simply by reading The Bible that God revealed Himself to me.
There were no men/persons involved in my salvation.
It was only through God’s Word The Bible that…
God spoke directly to me.
God convicted me of my sins.
God convicted me of my absolute corruption, wickedness, perversity, depravity, evil.
God showed me that Jesus is The Way, The Truth, The Life, The Only Way to God.
God showed me that Jesus is God’s only Son, The Messiah, The Savior of the world.
God convinced me of my absolute need of Jesus alone for the forgiveness of my sins.
God saved me by His grace.
God persuaded me, through His Word, to believe what He said, to trust in Him, and rely on Him alone to bring it to pass.
***
Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Our friend “Jman” incisively and correctly points out:
“No faith stands…until we figure out why the signs and wonders are missing.
Something is wrong.”
I wish that, after I had left, someone would have helped me to see what was wrong: to show me what was wrong Biblically. I have often wished that someone who had left the “church” would have explained what was wrong, by showing me from unambiguous verses in The Bible, with clear Biblical thinking and cogent Biblical understanding.
I am one of Jesus’ sheep; I would have heard His voice through His Word and followed Him.
He that is of God: hears, listens to, understands, and obeys God's Words.
God tells us why “religious” people will not hear, listen to, understand, and obey God's Words:
It is because they are not of God.
“But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said unto you.
My sheep hear, listen to, understand, and obey My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.”
God’s sheep cannot follow false teachers; they may try to, but, after a time they will stop listening to them and leave.
“And a stranger they will not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.”
“All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not listen to them.”
Everyone I have known, or heard of, who has left the “church”, left based on their own ideas, their own feelings, their own desires, their own natural understanding, or some “anointed” teacher’s ideas, that they received from the man they are now following as a replacement for Hobart Freeman (or they are now following some new “Prophet”, “Movement”, “Church”, “Apostle”, “Teaching”).
The person who brought me into “The Faith Message/Word of Faith” left our “church” years before I did, but, he didn’t tell me why he left. He moved out of state and did not contact me at all.
He did, however, talk to my mother, and tell her “what was wrong” with what we believed. He explained to her that I needed to find out for myself; and that he felt he couldn’t help me.
Sounds right; sounds mature; sounds spiritual; there’s just one problem: it’s not Biblical.
Christians are required to; it is our responsibility to:
Proclaim God’s Word/Doctrines/Teachings:
Be urgent; earnest; persistent; whether or not the time is right:
Convict them, convince them, tell them what is wrong, blaming them for following what is wrong:
Find fault with and condemn as wrong what they are following; reprimand them:
Scold, reprove, utter words in anger, condemn that which is wrong, rebuke, blame them for their faults.
We must also encourage them with all patience and instruction.
And again:
Brethren, if any Christian wanders away from the truth, and one brings him back, turns him back to the truth; let him know, that he which brings back the sinner from straying, from delusion, from error, shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
***
This brings me to the reason that I left “faith assembly/the church”.
Although I knew people who left the “church” because they disagreed with something that Hobart Freeman taught:
I never disagreed with anything Hobart Freeman taught.
A person I used to know very well, wanted to borrow money to build a house. He said he and his wife (also an “Overcomer”) didn’t “feel comfortable” being in a “church” that didn’t allow members to borrow money; so, they left, borrowed the money, and built their house.
Another person I also used to know very well, wanted to marry someone in the assembly who was divorced; so, they both left, and were married.
And, after Hobart Freeman gave his “teaching” on hunting, many people strongly disagreed with it; but I was not one of them.
Steve Hill admonished us about what Hobart Freeman’s “teachings” were:
“Are they The Word of God; The Fresh Bread from heaven; or, just the words of a man?”
I agreed 100% with Steve: when Hobart Freeman spoke he was not speaking just as a man, he spoke as a true “Prophet of God”. He was speaking the words of God directly to us, words that we needed to hear in order for us to walk deeper with God, and to carry out God’s perfect will.
I believed Hobart Freeman was God’s “anointed” teacher for the world at this time. Other “teachers” may have had some things correct; but, only Hobart Freeman had everything correct! He was the man/Prophet that God had chosen to prepare His “End Time Army” to do the “Greater Works” promised by Jesus.
Those following “The Faith Message/Word of Faith” understand that God has called specially “anointed” teachers to impart the “Fresh Word” of God to us. These new “Teachings” (The Fresh Word of God) are God’s Word specifically designed for us at this time.
Shortly after I left, I was talking with several people who had also left the “church” (but not “The Faith Message”).
I made a statement that I thought was very conservative:
“I am only going to believe what is clearly taught in The Bible.”
One “Overcomer” responded to this statement with a concerned admonition:
“I’m not going to give up what I believe, just because it’s not in the bible!”
I was amazed to see that no one disagreed with this statement—apart from me and my wife.
I tried to explain to another “Overcomer” who also had left the “church” (but not “The Faith Message”), that what he believed about Eve’s temptation and fall into sin was not Biblical.
What he believed made God directly responsible for Eve falling into sin! In other words: God brought sin into the world through His own negligence!
But God said:
“No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able to bear; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that you may be able to endure it.”
God always provides a way for us to conquer every temptation to sin, each and every time that we are tempted.
When I tried to explain that what he believes cannot be true because it violates the clear teaching of God’s Word:
He told me, referring to The Bible,
“I don’t care what it says; I know what I believe is true!”
Pointing to The Bible he told me derisively:
“My god is bigger than ‘that book’!”
But, God says:
The reason we roam from truth: - go astray, believe error, wander, go out of the way;
comes from not knowing/understanding His Word, nor His power/attributes. Matthew 22:29
The time will come when they will no longer believe God’s Word; and they shall turn away from listening to the truth of God’s Word, and shall believe fables, myths, lies of men. 2Timothy 4:3-4
After I left the “church”, an “Overcomer” who was very close to me personally, cut me off completely. Whenever I would see him, I could tell that he was obviously afraid of me. I believe he thought that I was one of those, who, in the last days, shall depart from “The Faith Message”. I rarely saw him; however, when I did, I would try to talk to him about what God was showing me from His Word. But each time I tried to share God’s Word with him he was nervous and antagonistic toward me.
For example: since he was often fearful and anxious about losing his salvation; I tried to show him the clear promises of Jesus that we have eternal life and cannot lose it:
I was trying to help him see that God, our Father, can be counted on to keep us saved for eternity, and that He helps us to be faithful to Him; to which he countered: “You must work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;”
I then asked him to read the second half of that verse which says: “Because it is God who works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” But, instead of reading it with me; his angry response was “WHY!? BECAUSE YOU SAY SO!”
All I was hoping to do was to help him see that God’s Word says we can trust Him to help us, and to keep us saved.
I am sure that all “Overcomers” know the first half of this verse by heart; but, I have never met one “Overcomer” who even knew that there was a second half to this verse; much less, that in the second half of this verse God promises: He will always be at work in us; and that it is He who makes us willing and able to obey His own purpose, His will. In other words: It is God who empowers us to be able to: work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.
I know, beyond any shadow of a doubt, the only way I have been able to “work out my own salvation” for these last 33 years is: Because God is always working in me; making me willing and able to obey Him. Philippians 2:12-13, Hebrews 13:20-21, Jude 1:24, 2Timothy 1:12, Proverbs 21:1
I simply wanted to encourage him, by showing him from The Bible that; God’s grace can be relied upon to keep us saved and to empower us to obey Him!
For those of us who are following Jesus, and believe God’s Word, this is good news; not something to be angry about or afraid of.
***
I know that many people left because of problems they had with other “Overcomers” but,
I didn’t leave the “church” because of problems with “Overcomers”.
I knew many “Overcomers” who were more worldly, carnal, mean-spirited, and hard hearted than any of the unsaved “Philistines” or denominational “christians” that I worked with.
One “Overcomer” (I worked with him fifty hours a week for five years) went out of his way, almost daily, to belittle me, criticize me, ridicule me, and treat me with utter contempt and animosity.
After putting up with his abuse for five years; I finally confronted him about it after he launched into the most irate and vociferous tirade against me to date; a rant so loud that everyone in the building heard every hateful, angry word he screamed at me.
That evening, after work, I told him, as a professed “Deeper Life christian” he was giving a bad witness to all of the people we worked with. He was showing them, daily, that being a “christian” made no difference at all in a person’s life.
(One unsaved person, who worked with us, told me that this “christian brother” had lied to our boss right in front of this unsaved person who knew the truth and watched as this “Deeper Life christian” lied without any compunction whatsoever. Needless to say, he told everyone in the shop about the hypocrisy of this “Overcomer”.)
In response to my confronting him, this “christian brother” admitted that he had been treating me with contempt and resentment; but, he never asked for forgiveness; he never even said he was sorry for anything he had said or done to me: he simply admitted that it was true; he had done these things to me.
The only explanation he gave for persecuting me was, it bothered him that “being a spiritual person seemed to come so easily” to me.
In other words, he didn’t like the fact that I was consistently behaving like a Christian on a daily basis; something he could only manage to do for two hours at “church”. In fact, the only time I ever saw him “act christian” was during “body ministry” where, in each and every meeting, without fail, he would “prophesy” of the “deep things” of God, and admonish us to walk the walk, not just talk the talk, etc.!
Another “Overcomer” I knew, and worked with, revealed that he had the same hard heart as the Pharisees/hypocrites concerning the lost; and not the love, mercy and compassion for the lost that Jesus has. Luke 19:10, 15:4-7,10,20, Mat 9:13,36, 14:14, 23:23
The whole “church” had watched a “christian” movie which exposed the strange practices of the New Age movement.
At one point the movie showed New Age practitioners chanting: Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! as they were preparing for “Spirit Guides” to enter their bodies and give them “Enlightenment”. Luke 11:35, 2Cor 11:14
The next day he was ridiculing these deceived, lost people, and laughing at them with contempt, as he repeated their chant in a mocking tone, “Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo!”
I asked him why he was laughing at them.
He told me, still laughing, “Because, it’s funny! I think it’s funny!”
Saddened by the fact that he found the lost condition of these deceived people so entertaining, I told him:
”If it was you chanting: ‘Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo!’ I would not be laughing.”
These were lost men and women, deceived by Satan, who were on their way to an eternity in the lake of fire;
How is that funny?
After I said this to him he never spoke to me again.
God points out that Pharisees/hypocrites have no concern for the lost; yet, they see themselves as doing God’s will better than anyone else:
God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican [or these deceived New-Agers; or those denominational “christians”; etc.]. Luke 18:10-14, Matthew 9:10-13
Even though I did have problems with “Overcomers”;
The reason I left had nothing to do with other people whatsoever.
***
The reason I left was me, not anyone or anything else! I was the reason I had to leave!
Hobart Freeman believed in and “taught” sinless perfection: “We are Saints; not aints.” “It says if we sin… not when we sin.” i.e., “Overcomers” should be sinless, and I was not living a perfect, sinless life.
At one point, people in the assembly were openly repenting of sin during the meeting. James 5:16
As one brother, who was uncomfortable with all the open confessions of sin, put it:
“What if unsaved people come in here? They will think we aren’t perfect.”
I was missing it, and I believed that God would judge our “assembly” if I didn’t leave and get myself straightened out.
I didn’t want to hold back my “overcoming” brothers and sisters because of my imperfections/sins. Joshua 7:12-13
What drove me to leave the “church” wasn’t a concern about other people’s lack of perfection:
I was deeply concerned about my own imperfections, my own sin!
I was afraid of the effect my sin would have on our assembly being used of God for the “Greater Works” ministry He was preparing them for. I was very sorry to have to go, but, I knew it was for the benefit of all my brothers and sisters who really were living a perfect, sinless, “overcoming”, deeper life in the Spirit.
I left because I knew that I wasn’t a very good “Overcomer”.
(see note #2)
***
God requires, that as His followers, we must:
Study [make an effort, be diligent] to show ourselves approved unto God, so we can be a workman that doesn’t need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
I am asking you to please do this with me.
***
Grace and faith are the two most important words in the entire Bible!
Because:
“By grace you have been saved, through faith;
This is not your own doing: it is the gift of God: not a result of anything you’ve done, so that no one may boast.”
We are saved by Grace…
Grace… is not our own doing!
Grace… is the gift of God!
Grace… is not a result of anything we’ve done!
It is by Grace… so that no one may boast.
Through faith…
Faith… is not our own doing! Titus 3:4-5
Faith… is the gift of God! Romans 12:3
Faith… is not a result of anything we’ve done! 1Cor 15:10, Ephesians 2:10
Through faith… so that no one may boast. 2Peter 1:2-3, 1Peter 1:2-5, Galatians 6:14, 2Cor 10:17
You would think that every Christian would know the meaning of these two words:
Since correctly understanding and believing them are the foundation of our salvation.
But this has not been my experience.
I have asked numerous “christians” for the definitions of grace and faith, and without fail these are the responses I have gotten:
Grace is the undeserved favor of God.
And, quoting Hebrews 11:1
“Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”
I have found that “christians” and even many true Christians also believe:
Faith is unquestioning belief; belief without any reason or evidence whatsoever: what some call “blind faith”.
AND…
Although most “christians”, and even some true Christians, believe there is some kind of mysterious aspect to “faith”;
It is only “charismatics” following “The Faith Message/Word of Faith” who believe that faith is an actual, tangible, spiritual substance; a real spiritual power which is released by us through the act of “believing”: a power that we are required to obtain for ourselves; to store it up; to strengthen it; so that we will become “strong in faith”.
This is the same spiritual power that God used to make the universe:
“Through [the spiritual substance of] faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God”. Or,
We understand that it was through the spiritual substance of faith that God made everything by speaking the Word of Faith.
Not only is it up to us to acquire this spiritual power, but, we must also be able to use it.
The most important part of having “faith” is increasing our prowess/ability to use this power in our daily lives. (James 2:17-18,20,22; “The just shall live [day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute] by faith”. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. When Jesus comes He will be looking for those who have (and use) this spiritual prowess).
We must have enough faith to enable God to do what we desire/need, i.e., receive the desires of our heart, prosper us, heal us, save us, save our families, etc.
Because, if we do not have enough of our own strong faith for God to use:
God can do nothing for us. Matthew 13:58, Mark 6:5-6
***
Satan understands that there is no way he can change the definition of the word grace.
Everyone understands that the primary meaning of the word grace is undeserved favor (of God).
I believe God won’t allow the meaning to be changed because that is how He saves us… By Grace!
But Satan knows…
The definition of the word faith can be made to seem more mysterious, ethereal, and mystical.
The definition of the word faith has been radically altered over time.
In fact, it has come to mean the exact opposite of its original Biblical definition.
This can be clearly seen in these dictionary definitions starting with the more recent dictionaries and going back in time.
1986: faith, belief without proof; belief without need of certain proof
1962, 1965: faith, a believing without proof
College edition 1953, 1958: faith, unquestioning belief; unquestioning belief in God, religion, etc.
If you go back far enough, the original definition of the word faith can be clearly seen, even in a common dictionary:
And that definition changes everything!
Faith is not belief without proof; or unquestioning belief in God, religion, etc.
Faith is belief based on reason and evidence.
WEBSTER’S TWENTIETH-CENTURY DICTIONARY UNABRIDGED 1904-1936
Faith [faith, belief, trust, from fidere, to trust, confide in.]
The assent of the mind to the truth of what is declared by another, resting on his authority and veracity.
Assent of the mind to a statement or proposition of another, on the ground of the manifest truth of such statement or proposition;
Firm and earnest belief, on probable evidence of any kind; as, I have a strong faith, or no faith, in the testimony of a witness.
The assent of the mind to what is given forth as a revelation of man’s relation to God and the infinite;
a settled conviction in regard to religion; specifically, in Christian theology,
(a) belief in the historic truthfulness of the Scripture narrative and the supernatural origin of its teaching;
(b) the assent of the mind to the truth of divine revelation, on the authority of God’s testimony, accompanied by a cordial ascent of the will or approbation (admitting as true and assenting to) of the heart;
entire confidence or trust in God’s character and declarations, and in the character and doctrines of Christ, with an unreserved surrender of the will to his guidance, and dependence on his merits for salvation; also called Evangelical, justifying, or saving faith.
WEBSTER’S 1828 DICTIONARY
FAITH, n. L. fides, fido, to trust; Gr. to persuade,
1. Belief; the assent of the mind to the truth of what is declared by another, resting on his authority and veracity, without other evidence; the judgment that what another states or testifies is the truth.
2. The assent of the mind to the truth of a proposition advanced by another; belief, of probable evidence of any kind.
3. In theology, the assent of the mind or understanding to the truth of what God has revealed.
4. Evangelical, justifying, or saving faith, is the assent of the mind to the truth of divine revelation, on the authority of God's testimony, accompanied with a cordial assent of the will or approbation of the heart; an entire confidence or trust in God's character and declarations, and in the character and doctrines of Christ, with an unreserved surrender of the will to his guidance, and dependence on his merits for salvation. In other words, that firm belief of God's testimony, and of the truth of the gospel, which influences the will, and leads to an entire reliance on Christ for salvation.
I brought in these dictionary definitions to show you that, not long ago, it wasn’t only true Christians who understood the exact meaning of the Biblical word faith: everyone understood it!
The Belief of our Reason is an Exercise of Faith, and Faith is an Act of Reason.
It is not reason that is taking my faith away: on the contrary, my faith is based on reason.
It is my imagination and emotions [that are taking my faith away].
The battle is between faith and reason on one side and emotion and imagination on the other.
***
What Is The Biblical Meaning Of The Greek Word Translated “Faith”?
Anyone who is teaching God’s Word, has a responsibility to be sure that the meaning of a word translated into English is the actual meaning of the Greek word, before he uses that word to teach anything i.e., theology or a Biblical principle.
Take baptism, church, saint; these words no longer have the same meaning in English that they have in the Greek.
They have been transliterated or mistranslated instead of being translated.
So, any correct Biblical teaching/theology/principle has to be based upon the actual meaning of the word, not its current incarnation/deviation.
What follows is an example of how a wrong translation of a single word can give an unbiblical twist to Jesus’ character, and the Biblical truth concerning God’s forgiveness of our sins: when we repent of our sins, God forgives our sins, and He never remembers them again. He certainly does not through them back in our faces.
This “twist” is in reference to the Greek meaning of the word(s) translated “love” in John 21:15-17.
I have 29 different versions of the Bible/bible, plus 3 Greek versions.
Five of them are God’s Word: Bibles written by God to us.
Twenty-four were written by religious natural men, for religious natural men, containing religious natural man’s wisdom, philosophies, and beliefs; I call these versions “bibles”: the majority of “christians”/unsaved religious people; love, believe and follow these versions “religiously”.
In all but four of these versions, it appears that Jesus is exacting retribution, for Peter having denied him three times, by asking Peter three times if he “loved” Him:
“Peter was grieved because He said unto him the third time [for the third time], do you love me?”
I saw this scene acted out in a “christian” movie; shown on a “christian” television network.
When “Jesus” asks Peter the first time, it was uncomfortable; the question seemed out of character for “Jesus”. Why would “Jesus” promote contention among “His” apostles: pitting the devotion of Peter against the devotion of all the other apostles?
When less than a minute passes, and “Jesus” asks the same question the second time, you start to wonder: what is wrong with “Jesus”; why is he picking on poor Peter?
And then, a short time later, when “Jesus” asks the same question for the third time; you really start to dislike this “Jesus” who is petty and pedantic, mean-spirited and cruel.
This “Jesus” seemed to enjoy tormenting Peter “three times” in retaliation for denying Him “three times".
This “Jesus” is a tit-for-tat; you’ll pay for denying me, “lord”, who is not someone any thinking person would want to follow.
The “Jesus” of this “christian” movie, is not the Jesus of The Bible.
Jesus was not asking Peter the “same question” three times, humiliating and castigating Peter in front of the other disciples, in order for Peter to “atone” for his sin of denying Him three times.
If any of that were true, Jesus would be badgering Peter about past sins that he had repented of and received forgiveness for! Luke 22:61-62 (Is there any significance in the fact that God gave Peter a vision “three times”? Or, that He sent “three men” to Peter from Cornelius? I Think Not! Acts 10:9-19)
This translation cannot be correct, because it violates a clear teaching in God’s Word:
When God forgives our sins He forgets them. God tells us that He never remembers our sins anymore after we repent of them: “He has not dealt with us according to our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities. For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is His mercy toward them that fear Him. As far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us. Just as a father has pity on his children, so the LORD pities them that fear Him.” Psalm 103:10-13 “I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more” Jeremiah 31:31-34.
It also portrays Jesus in a way that is not consistent with the rest of God’s Word: Jesus, setting one of His apostles against the others; and exacting retribution for past sins by cruel public humiliation. Matthew 11:29-30
Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance shows us that two different words for love are used in these passages.
Jesus used the word G25 Agapao, deeply love; used of divine love (John 14:21); and of that love which the law demands (Luke 10:27).
But Peter used the word G5368 Phileo, to be a friend to; to be fond of; to have affection for. It is a lesser degree of love.
This passage does not show Jesus picking on Peter for past sins; but, instead, we see Jesus helping Peter to understand that He accepts the fact that Peter’s love for Him is not as deep as it should be.
Jesus is helping Peter to do something that God alone does for anyone who follows Him.
At least, it is what He always does for me: My heavenly Father always helps me to “face myself and think”.
To see myself as I really am, according to God’s perspective; and to think about myself as I really am, according to God’s perspective i.e., He helps me to stop leaning on my own understanding.
Now look at the passage understanding that there are two different words for love used here.
Understanding that Jesus asked Peter three different questions; not the same question three times, which would have been cruel and vindictive.
So when they had dined, Jesus said to Simon Peter,
Simon, son of Jonas, do you deeply love Me, more than these [things]?
Peter said to Him, Yes, Lord; You know that I have affection for You.
Jesus said to him, Feed My lambs.
Jesus said to him again the second time,
Simon, son of Jonas, do you deeply love Me?
Peter said to Him, Yes, Lord; You know that I have affection for You.
Jesus said to him, Feed My sheep.
Jesus said to him the third time,
Simon, son of Jonas, do you have affection for Me?
Peter was grieved because Jesus said to him the third time, do you have affection for Me?
And he said to Him, Lord, You know all things; You know that I have affection for You.
Jesus said to him, Feed My sheep.
Jesus did not ask Peter the same question over and over and over again. Jesus asked Peter three different questions.
What grieved Peter was that, the third time, Jesus asked him if he really did have “a friendly feeling” toward Jesus.
Apart from “studying” the meaning of the two different Greek words translated as “love” in John 21; you would not know that Jesus is asking three different questions; not one question over and over and over again.
Because most of the English Bibles translate these passages incorrectly; you could come to the wrong conclusion about Who Jesus actually is. These translations portray Jesus as resentful, mean and vindictive which is not the Jesus of The Bible.
In relation to our repentance for our sin: the Jesus of The Bible is forgiving, compassionate, merciful, meek and lowly in heart.
Back to the question:
What Is The Biblical Meaning Of The Greek Word Translated “Faith”?
The Biblical definition of the word which is translated faith is persuasion.
FAITH [Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of The Bible]
G4102 pistis (From G3982; Believe)
Persuasion, that is, credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.
Persuasion
1. The act of persuading; the act of influencing the mind by arguments or reasons
2. The state of being persuaded or convinced; settled opinion or conviction proceeding from arguments and reasons
Credence
1. Belief; credit; reliance of the mind on evidence of facts derived from other sources than personal knowledge, as from the testimony of others
Conviction
1. The act of proving, determining to be guilty of an offense charged against a person before a legal tribunal; as by the verdict of a jury.
Reliance
1. Rest or repose of mind, resulting from a full belief of the veracity or integrity of a person, or of the certainty of a fact; trust; confidence; dependence. We may have perfect reliance on the promises of God
Constancy
1. Fixedness; a standing firm 2. Fixedness or firmness of mind; 3. Certainty; veracity; reality.
Veracity n. [L. verax, from verus, true.]
1. Habitual observance of truth, or habitual truth 2. Invariable expression of truth
BELIEVE [Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of The Bible]
G3982 peitho (the root word of faith)
A primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by analogy to pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflexively or passively to assent (to evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty): - agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) content, make friend, obey,[b] persuade, trust, yield.
Convince v.t. [L., to vanquish.]
1. To persuade or satisfy the mind by evidence; to subdue the opposition of the mind to truth
2. To convict; to prove 3. To substantiate; to prove.
Believe (pisteuo): is used 250 times throughout the New Testament and is translated: believe, believers, believing, believest, believeth, believed, trust. Its origin is from the word Faith.
BELIEVE [Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of The Bible]
G4100 pisteuo (From G4102)
to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.
Credit
1. Belief; faith; a reliance or resting of the mind on the truth of something said or done.
Trust
1. Confidence; a reliance or resting of the mind on the integrity, veracity, justice, friendship or other sound principle of another person.
2. He or that which is the ground of confidence.
Confidence
1. A trusting, or reliance; an assurance of mind or firm belief in the integrity, stability or veracity of another, or in the truth and reality of a fact.
Biblical Faith is:
Persuasion in what God tells us, which convinces us to believe God, and to trust in God, and to rely on God alone to perform what He said in His Word.
***
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance…
The biblical meaning of the word faith is clear; it means persuasion.
The biblical meaning of the word substance is also clear.
Substance [Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of The Bible]
G5287 hupostasis
From a compound of G5259: hupo, under; and G2476: histemi, to stand; a setting under (support)
You can see the basis of the word substance, when you take the word apart, sub and stance:
sub; under, beneath, and stance; to stand. Foundation would be a better translation of the word.
So instead of faith being a spiritual substance of power and our prowess/ability to use it;
Hebrews 11:1 would be better translated as:
Now persuasion is the foundation of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Or expanded it could read:
Persuasion in God, belief in God, trust in God, and reliance on God alone is the foundation of everything I hope for;
Persuasion in God, belief in God, trust in God, and reliance on God alone is the evidence of things I have not yet seen.
There is no “power” in biblical faith.
The word faith simply means God has persuaded us through His Word, to believe Him/believe His Word, and because we believe Him, we trust in Him, and rely on Him alone to fulfill His Word, His Promises to us.
Biblical faith is not belief/faith in our own mastery of a “Spiritual Substance of Power”, what some have described as “having faith in our own faith”.
***
Grace and Truth came by Jesus The Messiah.
God’s Grace, on the other hand, does contain THE POWER OF GOD TO CHANGE US SPIRITUALLY, ETERNALLY.
GRACE [Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of The Bible]
G5485 charis
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially
The divine influence upon the heart, [Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.]
And its reflection in the life; [Order my steps in your word: and do not let any iniquity/wickedness have dominion over me.]
Including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).
Graciousness n. Kind condescension.
GRACE [Thayer’s Greek Definitions]
G5485 charis
2) good will, loving-kindness, favor
2a) of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting His holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues.
God, [Who has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace.]
Exerting His holy influence upon souls, [No man is able to come to Me if he is not given the power to do so by My Father. Make me to go in the path of Your Commandments.]
Turns them to Christ, [No man is able to come to Me if the Father who sent Me does not give him the desire to come.]
Keeps, [Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy. I know Him in whom I have believed, and I am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day.]
Strengthens, [Be strong in the Lord, and in the power of His might. I can do all things through Messiah who strengthens me.]
Increases them in Christian faith, [The Christian doctrines/persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God. Go on fighting strongly for the Christian faith which was once delivered to the saints. God has dealt to every man The Measure of faith [persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God].]
Knowledge, [In Messiah are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.]
Affection, [Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us, and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. If we love one another, God dwells in us, and His love is perfected in us.]
and
Kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues. [Now the God of peace… make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.]
***
Back to Ephesians 2:8-9
“By grace you have been saved, through faith; This is not your own doing:
It is the gift of God: not a result of anything you’ve done, so that no one may boast.”
We are saved by grace…
Grace… is not our own doing!
Grace… is the gift of God!
Grace… is not a result of anything we’ve done!
It is by Grace… so that no one may boast.
Through faith…
Faith… is not our own doing!
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.
Faith… is the gift of God!
God has dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Faith… is not a result of anything we’ve done!
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and His grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Through faith… so that no one may boast.
Grace and peace be multiplied unto you… according as His divine power has given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness.
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father… Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God alone unto salvation.
But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
But he that boasts, let him boast in the Lord.
There have always been only two ways: God’s way, or man’s way.
By Grace you have been saved, through faith!
Is it…
I am saved by grace, through My Faith!
I am saved by grace; which God only gives, because I released My Spiritual Power of Faith.
It is only because I released My Spiritual Power of Faith, that God can save me by grace.
Or…
I am so persuaded by God, Who said He saved me by His Grace, that I believe I am saved by His Grace, and I trust in His gift of Grace for my salvation, and I rely on His free gift of Grace alone to save me for eternity.
Either God gets all the Glory! And no one has anything at all to boast of.
1 Corinthians 1 :30-31, 15:10, 2 Corinthians 4:7, Galatians 6:14, Ephesians 2:4-10, 4:6-7, 5:20, Philippians 4:19, Colossians 1:12-14, 1 Thessalonians 3:12-13, 2 Thessalonians 2:16-17, 1 Peter 1:3-5, 4:11, 5:6,10-11
Or…
Man gets the Glory; and we can boast of our own accomplishments. Luke 18:11-14, James 4:13-16
For a Christian it is obvious: Salvation, of body, soul, and spirit; is of The LORD! God Alone Gets All The Glory!
The difference can be seen in which word we emphasize in the question asked by Jesus: “Where is your faith?”
Now it came to pass on a certain day, that He went into a ship with His disciples: and He said unto them, Let us go over unto the other side of the lake. And they launched forth. But as they sailed He fell asleep: and there came down a storm of wind on the lake; and they were filled with water, and were in jeopardy. And they came to Him, and awoke Him, saying, “Master, master, we perish”. Then He arose, and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water: and they ceased, and there was a calm. And Jesus said unto them, “Where is your faith?” Luke 8:22-25
As “Overcomers” we were taught:
Jesus was rebuking them for coming to Him for help!
He was chastising them for not trusting in their own faith; for not relying on their own faith; for not using their own faith to get them out of trouble:
“Where is your faith?
Where is your own spiritual prowess!? Your ability to use the spiritual power of your own faith!?
You should have used your own spiritual prowess to stop the boat from sinking!
This is something that you should have been able to do for yourselves ! You should not have needed Me to do it for you!
In the other point of view:
Jesus is simply admonishing us to trust and rely on God, our Father; no matter what the situation.
“Where is your faith?”
Where is your persuasion in God that causes you to believe Him, to trust in Him, and rely on Him to keep us safe, even in the midst of this storm?
Jesus tells us to have persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God.
Again…
And when Jesus departed from there, two blind men followed Him, crying, and saying, Thou Son of David, have mercy on us. And when He was come into the house, the blind men came to Him: and Jesus said to them, Do you believe that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yes, Lord. Then He touched their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you. Matthew 9:27-29
What is the emphasis?
Let it be unto you according to your faith: according to your prowess/ability to use the spiritual power of your own faith.
But Jesus didn’t ask them if they had enough faith to receive healing;
Jesus asked them: “Do you believe that I am able to do this?
Their answer was yes, Lord Jesus; we believe that You are able to do this.
According to your faith, [/b]According to your persuasion in God, that causes you to believe Him, to trust in Him, and to rely on Him to give you your sight.
The truth about the real meaning of the word “faith” can be seen in these juxtapositions:
It is persuasion in God, belief in God, trust in God and reliance on God alone?
Or…
It is trusting in your own spiritual prowess; relying on your own ability to use this spiritual substance of power?
The just shall live by his own spiritual prowess.
Or,
The just shall live by persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God.
Your own spiritual prowess has saved you.
Or,
Your persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God has saved you.
I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your own spiritual prowess is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Or,
I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your persuasion in God, belief in God, trust and reliance in God is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Whatsoever is not of your own spiritual prowess is sin.
Or,
Whatsoever is not of persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God is sin.
Have your own spiritual prowess in God.
Or,
Have persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God.
Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through your own spiritual prowess in His blood.
Or,
Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in His blood.
Without your own spiritual prowess it is impossible to please God.
Or,
Without persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God it is impossible to please Him.
Romans 10:17 “So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Or, this expanded version:
“So then persuasion in God comes by listening to instruction, moreover, listening to instruction through that which has been uttered by the Living Voice of God”.
So then your own Spiritual Power/Prowess comes by hearing!
Or,
So then persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God comes by hearing the Word of God.
One is reliance on your own “faith”.
As he was “teaching” about Romans 10:17, an “anointed” faith teacher said: If I need faith for something that I am “believing for”, I just say it out loud; and when I hear myself speak, that brings faith: because, faith comes by hearing!
The other is looking to God alone.
Persuasion in God, belief in God, trust in God and reliance on God alone comes from listening to the Word of God.
If, as one “anointed teacher” said: “God never does anything out of compassion. God only responds to [your] Faith!”;
Why then does God speak about/respond to/act upon His own will, mercy and compassion so many times?
Matthew 8:2-3, 9:36, 14:14, 15:32, 20:34, Mark 1:40-41, 5:19, 6:34, 8:2, Luke 5:12-13, 7:12-15, 9:11, 13:11-13, 10:33, 15:20
Romans 9:15, Hebrews 5:2, 1 Peter 3:8, Jude 1:21-22
If Jesus believed the “faith message”:
When His apostles asked Him to “increase their faith” He would have told them that to make their faith strong they needed to exercise it daily like a muscle, by “believing God” for their desires, needs, etc.; letting their faith (spiritual substance) “stand in the gap” until the full manifestation of what they are “believing for” comes to pass.
Instead, Jesus told them:
If they had persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God, as small as a grain of mustard seed, that would be enough to do the impossible.
Jesus did not teach that we need to build up our “faith”; instead, He knew that our heavenly Father has given to each of us “The Measure” of faith, and that is more than enough.
If Peter believed the “faith message”:
Why didn’t he teach it after he and John had healed the lame man at the gate called Beautiful?
This would have been the perfect time to teach “the faith message” to those who were wondering how this healing had occurred. Peter would have explained that it was his own Spiritual Substance of Power, his own Spiritual Prowess, which came from his great Faith that healed this man.
Instead, Peter told them:
Why do you look so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
Peter then preaches Jesus The Messiah to them and reveals how the man was healed:
And His name; Jesus’ Name, Authority, Character; through persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in Jesus’ Name, Authority, Character, has made this man strong. Luke 9:1-2, 10:1,9,16-17
Peter tells them it was Jesus The Messiah who healed this man not their own “spiritual prowess”.
If Paul believed the “faith message”:
He would have told Timothy to continue drinking that contaminated water and “believe God” to make it pure for him.
He also would have “confessed” perfect health over both Timothy and Trophimus.
Instead, Paul told Timothy:
Do not drink the water any longer [because it is contaminated], but use a little wine for your stomach's sake [it will help heal your stomach sickness] and your often infirmities. Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.
***
Back to “Jman’s” insightful statement: “No faith stands…until we figure out why the signs and wonders are missing. Something is wrong.”
Jesus told us to “go into the whole world, and preach the gospel to everyone. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that does not believe shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; in my name they shall cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming The Word with signs following. Amen.”
The answer is clear when you understand what Jesus said He would confirm with signs following.
Jesus promised to confirm only one thing with signs following: “The Gospel according to God’s Word”.
If there are no signs, it is because we are preaching a different Gospel; not the Gospel according to God’s Word!
The “faith message” is a false gospel.
The “faith” of “The Faith Message” is based upon an incorrect English translation and a misunderstanding of the definitions of two Greek words, pistis (faith) and hupostasis (substance).
And,
An unbiblical, foundational emphasis based on only four words: “faith is the substance”:
Which is believed to mean: “faith is a spiritual substance”, “a spiritual substance of power”.
The “faith message” teaches faith as a work that we are responsible to produce for ourselves, for our own salvation:
Thy Faith Has Saved Thee! You must work out your own salvation with fear and trembling!
The Biblical word “faith” cannot be the foundation for a belief in a mystical, spiritual substance of “power” released by us when we truly “believe” because: faith means persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God: and, sub-stance means foundation.
The “faith message” is a false gospel designed by men, who “use” God’s Word to teach unbiblical doctrines that seem correct/Biblical to those of us who are following them, because, they “use” the Bible to “prove” their unorthodox teachings as “christian”.
These men apply a form of “biblical” interpretation called eisegesis; which allows them to interject their own personal ideas/beliefs/understanding into their “interpretation” of the bible; which they then present as “biblical” by means of biblical “proof-texting”. They start by taking their own unbiblical doctrine(s) and then “seek out” verses that say/prove what they believe; providing “proof” from the “text” of the bible that it is “biblical”. This often requires that certain words, or even whole verses, be taken out of their context, in order to be “understood” as they need/wish them to be.
Take for instance the teaching that we alone are responsible to keep ourselves “saved”; which was (along with other verses) proof-texted with : “You must work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”
Sounds right, it is what the Bible says. But, we were never told to read the second half of the verse, which adds:
“Because it is God who works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
The balance provided by God’s word, persuades us that we can believe Him and trust in Him and rely on Him, to make sure that we not only desire to do His will; but, that God our Father, will empower us, by His Grace, to actually do His will.
This one should be very familiar:
We were taught to be careful about the words that we speak, because, just like God, we have the “power” to “speak things into being”. And, because we have this “power”, we must not make any “negative confessions” which can “snare” us, and cause us to not receive whatever it is we are “confessing into being”.
And the proof-text offered for this “biblical truth”:
“You are snared by the words of your mouth, you are taken by the words of your mouth.”
But when you look at the context of this verse, you find that, once again, it is only half of the sentence; which in context actually reads:
“My son, if you are surety for your friend [co-signer of his loan], if you have stricken your hand with a stranger [given your word that you will do something],
You are snared by the words of your mouth, you are taken by the words of your mouth.”
This simply means that, if a friend asks you to be a co-signer of his loan; and you promise that you will take on this obligation; or you promise to do something for a stranger:
Because “you gave your word”; you are obligated (“snared”) to keep your word/promise. Because, as a follower of The God of The Bible, Who says regarding promises He makes: “God is not a man, that He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent: has He said, and shall He not do it? or has He spoken, and shall He not make it good?”: we are also required to keep our word whenever we give it. Matthew 5:37
The “faith message”, as it is currently believed/practiced, began with the teachings of a man named E.W. Kenyon.
I know that Hobart Freeman told us not to look into Kenyon’s past or teachings; but, after I left the “church”, I did.
I needed to find out what was wrong with what I believed.
You may remember Tom Hamilton’s adage:
“People say that what we teach sounds like “christian science”! It’s not “christian science”; it’s christian sense.”
In 1892, E.W. Kenyon attended Emerson College, a “spiritual” institution inundated with metaphysical, cultic ideas and practices. Unitarianism, Metaphysics, New Thought, and Mary Baker Eddy’s “christian science” were some of the “spiritual” influences advocated and taught to students at this school.
Charles Mallory, a frequent guest lecturer at the college, said of Emerson College, This is a school where the philosophy of life is taught. It ought to be called, “The First Church of Emerson.”
The college was named for its founder Charles Wesley Emerson, who was a believer in, and an advocate of:
Unitarianism, Metaphysics, New Thought, Mary Baker Eddy’s “christian science”, and Phineas P. Quimby (Eddy’s mentor).
***
When any Christian (or even an unbeliever) raises questions about what I believe; I am obligated to search out the answers to those questions and be willing to accept that I may be wrong (according to God’s Word) about what I believe. Especially if their concerns are based upon the clear teaching of God’s Word.
As Christians, we must listen to every brother and sister in Jesus, and trust/believe that they are trying to help us to turn back to God; this is why God illustrates our relationship to each other as a “body”, and as brothers and sisters in Messiah Jesus.
Just like a family we are responsible for each other, and we are required to watch out for each other, and to help each other walk uprightly, according to The Truth of God’s Word.
We must:
Examine everything carefully; and hold fast to that which is good.
We are responsible to try to help everyone that comes across our path. Luke 10:29-37
We are responsible to help those brothers and sisters who have strayed from the truth, gotten caught in error, or false teaching:
“Brethren, if any Christian wanders away from the truth, and one brings him back, turns him back to the truth; let him know, that he which brings back the sinner from straying, from delusion, from error, shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.”
According to God’s Word, we are our brother’s and sister’s keeper.
The following is an example of what happened when I tried to help an “Overcomer” to see that he may not be a Christian at all; but, only a false convert; a “religious” person.
I knew him most of my life; but he cut me out of his life after we became “Overcomers”.
He was “saved” believing “the faith message”.
He has never exhibited any Christian fruit as long as I have known him. He is exactly the same as he was before he “got saved”; except that he now goes to “church”, something that many “religious” people do.
He doesn’t follow God’s Word The Bible. Instead, with unquestioning devotion, he follows “anointed” men.
He has never been an example of how following Jesus changes us into Christians who demonstrate to the world through our new life—our spiritual new birth—that a born-again believer in Jesus The Messiah thinks, acts and speaks like Jesus; and doesn’t think, act or speak like a worldly man any longer. Romans 6:6, 2Corinthians 5:17, 6:17,
He once got a friend of his (also an “Overcomer”) to lie to me in an email, in order to try to trick me into reading something from him; even though I made it clear to him I didn’t want to read any more of his unbiblical beliefs. Colossians 3:8-9, Titus 3:10
One example of his worldliness: Like many unsaved men, he did, and still does, use the “f” word frequently. When I told him that using the “f” word is not a good witness for a follower of Jesus, he said, completely unconcerned about my admonition, “Do you really think that god cares about the words we say?”
I pointed out to him that The God of The Bible does care about the words coming out of our mouths:
“A good tree does not bring forth corrupt fruit; neither does a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush do they gather grapes.
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth that which is good;
And an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth that which is evil:
For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks."
And again:
“How can you, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart brings forth [speaks] good things:
And an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth [speaks] evil things.
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
For by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned.” Ephesians 4:29-32
But…
He did not believe God’s Word.
Even though what he believes clearly contradicts God’s Word; he still believed that he was right.
He wasn’t moved at all by the words of Jesus.
Why didn’t he believe what Jesus said?
Jesus explains why people do not believe what He says:
You do not believe [what I say], because you are not of My sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
He that is of God hears, listens to, and obeys God's words: you therefore do not hear, listen to, and obey them, because you are not of God.
***
This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
But in vain do they worship me, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.
You ignore God's commandments, and you are holding on to the teachings that men have made up.
And he said unto them, Full well you reject the commandment of God, so that you may keep your own tradition.
Either we are following the teachings of men or we are following God according to His Word.
The following story illustrates the point:
Not long ago, my wife and I invited an “assistant pastor” (he held a job as a “pastor” for 25 years) from a local “Baptist” “church” to have him look into God’s Word with us to discuss the doctrines we hold as being Biblical i.e., clearly taught in the Bible. We thought we would start with something easy, like marriage/divorce/and remarriage, or tongues. We were trying to find out how anyone could possibly ignore the clear definition of adultery given by Jesus in Matthew 19:3-12, and allow anyone to remarry; regardless of Jesus’ one and only exception for remarriage; or annul the Biblical truth of “tongues” as plainly taught in 1Corinthians 14; hoping to dispel the misunderstanding about tongues, that comes from not recognizing that God is speaking about three different “kinds” of tongues in this chapter.
I thought the best way to start was to have us read these verses together, and then talk about them: simple enough?
But…
As our friend started to “read” from his Bible, my wife and I tried to follow along with him but couldn’t. We were all using the King James Version; yet, not even one word that he “read” from his Bible could be found in our King James Bibles. At first this caused much confusion; where are the words that he is “reading” from his bible? Why aren’t those words in our Bibles?
Then it dawned on us what was happening:
Instead of reading God’s Word to guide us/teach us about tongues… he was “reading” into his bible the “Baptist” doctrine of how “tongues” had passed away and were no longer necessary for the “church” during this time etc., etc., etc.
This not only astounded us, it became a valuable lesson, illustrating a serious problem endemic in the “church” and in “christians”:
They cannot read, believe, understand, follow, or obey God’s Word; because they only read, believe, understand, follow and obey the doctrines of men.
This man was hoping to indoctrinate us into the “Baptist” “teaching” about “tongues”.
What he did not know was that we are Jesus’ sheep, Christians, who know, believe and follow God/God’s Word. We cannot follow man’s teachings.
Without knowing it, this “pastor” became the “poster-boy” to illustrate exactly what is wrong with the “church” at this point in time: when “christians” “read” God’s Word, they can only hear what men told them to hear; they can only believe what men told them to believe; they can only understand what men told them to understand.
This “pastor” was incapable of even reading God’s Word without interjecting man’s interpretation/doctrines directly into the text of the Bible as he “reads” it.
This is frightening! Imagine what it would be like to never again hear from God through His Word. To only believe and follow what men tell you to believe and follow? To be incapable of reading God’s Word without filtering it through man’s ideas/interpretation/doctrines/beliefs. To always read God’s Word with a veil over your heart and mind.
Their minds were blinded: for until this day remains the same veil not taken away in the reading of God’s Word; which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when God’s Word is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. Matthew 13:9, 13-15
They teach man-made ideas as if they were the Word of God.
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who did not believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
I believe God’s people today are in the same position they were in when Jesus first came to turn them back to God/God’s Word: they didn’t believe or even know the Word of God anymore, because their “religious” “leaders” were teaching their own doctrines and not The Word of God. Mark 1:22,27, 11:18, Luke 4:32,36, John 7:15-17, Matthew 7:28, 22:33, 2 Cor 2:17, Colossians 2:18-22 2Tim 4:1-4, Titus 1:9-16
In the Bible, Christians are those who believe, trust and follow Jesus the Messiah. The Jesus revealed in God’s Word.
Throughout my life I have met, and know of, many people who identify themselves as:
“Catholics”
“Jehovah’s Witness’”
“Lutherans”
“Red Letter christians”
“Baptists”
“Methodists”
“Mormons”
“Charismatics”
“Overcomers”
And they admit they are following:
The Pope/church
The Watchtower/Awake/prophets
Martin Luther/church
The Social gospel/socialist/communist/”reformers”
Baptist teachings?
The Social gospel/socialist/communist/”reformers”
The Book of Mormon/Joseph Smith/Brigham Young/prophets
Anointed teachers/apostles/prophets/the Holy Spirit/the still small inner voice/personal revelations/”revelation knowledge”
The Faith Message/anointed teachers/apostles/prophets/the Holy Spirit/the still small inner voice/personal revelations/”revelation knowledge”
I once found someone online who had almost the exact/same testimony as mine, except, at the end of my testimony,
I became a Christian, a follower of Jesus The Messiah.
And at the end of his testimony, he became a “christian” AND, a “Lutheran”.
“christians” are “religious” people who are following men instead of following Jesus through God’s Word.
All the unbiblical beliefs that they hold to while disregarding the clear teaching of God’s Word to the contrary, are proof that they are following men and not God: Infant baptism, “Sacraments”, the “Eucharist”, the “Mass”, if you go to “church” you are a “christian”, etc.
These are more beliefs, taught by men, which are not found anywhere in the New Testament:
“Pleading The Blood of Jesus”,
“Believeing God For”,
“Anointed” teachers,
Only “anointed” teachers can “teach” God’s Word,
“The Fresh Bread from Heaven”/“The New Word of God”,
“Touch not the Lord’s anointed!”
Negative/positive “confessions”,
We have the power to “speak things into being”, just like God,
Christians calling themselves “The End Time Army of God”,
Christians calling themselves “Overcomers”,
Christians living a “Deeper Life”,
“The faith message” i.e., faith is a Spiritual Power.
“Jman” states: “At the time of this post… FA, the satellites, the spinoffs, and the FA diaspora have been having church without apostles for 41 years and 63 days.”
This can only be true if you don’t believe:
“The word of God is alive and active, sharper than any double-edged sword. It cuts all the way through, to where soul and spirit meet, to where joints and marrow come together. It judges the desires and thoughts of the heart. There is nothing that can be hidden from God; everything in all creation is exposed and lies open before His eyes. And it is to Him that we must all give an account of ourselves.”
Or:
“All scripture is God breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: so that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”
Christians have never been without God’s apostles or prophets because God tells us:
We are of the household of God; and the household of God is built upon
“the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.”
The Church of God has never been without His apostles and prophets;
God’s people never will be without apostles and prophets as long as we continue to listen to/believe/obey God’s Word The Bible.
It is religious man’s “church” that is without God’s apostles and prophets.
Any child of God can listen to/believe/obey any of God’s true apostles and prophets any time we desire; with complete confidence and assurance that we are hearing The Eternal Word of God written for us at this present time: and this same Word will teach us throughout all of eternity.
Because only Jesus spoke Eternal Words; Only Jesus has The Words of Eternal Life:
“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My Words shall not pass away.”
“If a man loves Me, he will keep My Words: and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make Our abode with him. He that does not love Me does not keep My Sayings: and the Word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's which sent Me.”
God made His Word greater than all His Name. Psalm 138:2
We have been born again by the living and eternal Word of God. 1Pet 1:23
Salvation is far from the wicked, for they do not seek God’s Word. Psalm 119:155
Now all these things [from the Old Testament] happened unto them as examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 1Cor 10:11
Jesus always taught God’s Word. John 7:16-17, 14:24
***
As I said in an earlier post: I am looking for Christians.
Christians like the one I called concerning a tract that I believe isn’t Biblical in its emphasis on our “suffering for Christ”.
I wrote about this in an earlier post, it is a true story about an exchange I had that could have ended in anger and resentment on the part of the person I was talking with/questioning/trying to help. But, instead, his reaction was one of friendship, brotherly love and a teachable spirit: like Apollos in Acts 18:24-26 and the Bereans in Acts 17:11-12
I came across a tract that seemed to be encouraging us to suffer in a deeper way, so we could add our serious physical and emotional suffering to the suffering of Jesus The Messiah. Like the Roman Catholic's believe.
I called the ministry listed on the tract and asked the man who answered if he was familiar with it.
He said he was not (because they print so many tracts) and I proceeded to tell him why I thought the tract was not Biblical, i.e., it was promoting an idea of God's purpose in our suffering that was not Biblical.
I once had a "pastor" tell me that I shouldn't be telling Christians what the Word of God says, because, "That will offend them."
Really… Christians offended by God’s Word?
I am a Christian. I love to hear and read and talk about God's Word. I have never been offended by hearing God's Word. Deuteronomy 6:6-7
Convicted… Yes! Challenged… Certainly! Helped… Always! Offended? NEVER!
Anyway...
This person could have "reacted" in anger and self-defense: who do you think that you are!?
This is my ministry! I answer to God alone! I don’t care what you or anyone else thinks or says about my tracts: I know that they are right! I would never put out a tract that was not Christian or Biblical! I will thank you to keep your opinions to yourself!
He could have said that... After all, I was questioning his ministry.
He could have... But he didn't.
Instead...
He promised me that because he wasn't familiar with the tract, he would get it, read it, and re-evaluate it in the light of what I had brought to his attention.
And then…
We started telling each other how great it was that Jesus was our Lord and Savior.
He told me what God was currently doing in his life. I was encouraged to see the hand of God working in this man's life.
And then I told him about the things that God was doing in my life. Throughout our conversation we were quoting the Scriptures that God was working into our lives daily.
My saying at that time was: this is not just what God's Word says: this is what He is actually doing in my life right now!
Through sharing God's Word with each other, God was showing us that we truly were brothers in Messiah Jesus. We knew that we were both sheep belonging to Jesus The Shepherd. Even though we had only met a few minutes before; I knew this man was a true Christian. I knew because of his love for God's Word and for me (John 13:35). I knew because of the way he reacted to my "criticism" of his ministry. He acted just like a man that wants to show Jesus to everyone that comes across his path. He treated me with respect and kindness, just as Jesus would. He acted as if we had been close brothers all of our lives; and he was truly glad that I had cared enough to point out something to him that might need to be looked into or changed.
I was delighted to have had the opportunity to share with my brother all the things that God had been doing in my life.
And we both praised Jesus for all He had done in our lives!
Think about it...
I called him to point out something I thought was wrong (which took about 4 minutes to explain);
And for the rest of our conversation (about 20 minutes):
We both got side-tracked into praising Jesus! And talking about what Jesus was doing in our lives today!
I really enjoyed sharing God’s Word with him, and hearing how God was speaking to him through His Word!
JESUS was the center of everything that we thought and said during our time together. It Was Great!
I have been looking for Christians like this man; but I can't seem to find any.
I will keep looking and remember that I once met a stranger who was more like a true brother (in every sense of the word) than any "christian" I have ever met. I thank God for our short time together, and I look forward to talking to him again.
When I started my journey with Messiah Jesus, my wife, my two brothers and I used to sit around with our Bibles open and talk about The Word of God. We used to discuss the Scriptures we had read, and how great God’s Word was. Those days were a great time of fellowship with each other around God’s Word. But, those times of sharing God’s Word ended when we joined “faith assembly” and I lost Christian fellowship with my brothers.
My first love was Jesus/God's Word. I would read my Bible (ten chapters) every day and talk about Jesus/God’s Word with every person I met. Deut 6:6-7. I was insatiable.
This is what I believe Jesus meant about us recognizing that we had forsaken our first love, to remember where we were (spiritually) before we fell, and to stop going any farther in the wrong direction and repent (turn around), and do the first works again. Rev 2:4-5
God “woke me up” when I returned to my first love, about six years ago.
Now this is what I am holding on to: the salvation of my heart, soul, mind, body, and spirit by the Grace of God, which is the power of God, to keep me saved, and to keep me safe with Him, now and for eternity.
I am persuaded by what God says to me in The Bible,
To believe what God says to me in The Bible,
To trust in God as my heavenly Father,
And to rely on my heavenly Father, to keep the promises, that He has persuaded me to believe.
I marvel that you are so soon removed from Him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
But I declare to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
If you continue in My word, then are you My disciples indeed; and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.
Set Free by Jesus: The Word of God.
His servant and yours
Tom
You can email me at: asmokingflax@live.com
***
notes
#1
I realize that Hobart Freeman believed that some of these verses “prove” that Christians can lose their salvation.
He believed that God cannot save us from our selves; from our own natural tendency to wander away from Him.
Freeman taught that God can save us; but, God cannot keep us saved: staying saved depends entirely on us.
It is completely up to us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling!
Many men believe this; it was first taught by a man named Jacobus Arminius (1560–1609).
But, I believe God.
I am persuaded by God’s Word, to believe what He said, and to trust and rely on Jesus alone Who taught:
“Whoever eats My flesh, and drinks My blood, has eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
I believe, trust and rely on Jesus who tells me I have eternal life! I already possess eternal life! John 5:24, 6:35,37,39,40,44,47,50,51,54,57,58, 10:27-29, 11:25-26
He did not say that I have a chance at eternal life depending entirely on me.
He also promised to raise me up at the last day, ”I will raise him up at the last day.”
He did not say, “I may raise him up at the last day; but, that depends entirely on what he does with his life”.
And in Matthew 7:21-27 Jesus said: “I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.”
If this verse taught that you could lose your salvation, Jesus would have said:
“I knew you at one time, when I saved you; but, you walked away from Me, and I no longer know you.”
But Jesus said I NEVER knew you; you were NEVER one of My sheep.
“My sheep hear My voice, and
I KNOW them, and
They follow Me: and
I give to them eternal life; and
They shall NEVER [no, not at all, not by ANY means] perish, [The word “never” is a double negative; there isn’t any way at all for His sheep to perish!]
Neither shall ANY PERSON take them out of My hand.” [I myself am a “person” so this promise includes me.]
Every Work of God is Perfect, Complete, Lacking Nothing.
It is an insult to God’s Intelligence, Mercy and Compassion to say He doesn’t understand that:
When it comes to our ability to obey God: we are our own worst enemies.
God’s Perfect Work of Salvation would have to include saving us from our own unbelief, our own faithlessness, our own wandering, our own disobedience, our own sinfulness, our own wickedness… in other words:
Our sinful, hopeless, evil, SELVES! Romans 3:10-12, Jeremiah 4:22, Micah 7:2, Luke 18:19
The Eternal Security of the Believer is too large a topic to go into here, but… I will tell you that:
I am persuaded by God’s Word, to believe what He said, and to trust and rely on Jesus alone to save me and keep me from EVERY THING/EVERY SIN that could cause me to fall away from Him.
I know that God started this work in me and He promises to finish it i.e., get me to heaven. Philippians 1:6, 1Peter 1:3-5, Psalm 37:5-6, 138:8, Isaiah 46:11b
I am persuaded, that nothing shall be able to separate me from the love of God, which is in Jesus The Messiah my Lord.
Because I love God’s Law/Word I have great peace: and nothing shall cause me to fall. Psalm 119:165
I have gone astray like a lost sheep many times; but God always seeks His servants, sheep, children who wander away from Him; for I do not forget His Commandments/Word. Psalm 119:176, Luke 15:1-32
***
#2
I knew something was wrong!
I couldn’t understand why my relationship with Jesus had become so distant and unreal when it had started out so intimate and just as real as my relationship with my wife. We were assured this was simply a trial of our “faith”, and that we needed to keep pressing forward “walking by faith, not by feeling”, which I did; but this just added to my desperation and sense of loss which helped to convince me that for the benefit of the assembly I should leave; so, I did.
The effect of my leaving was:
Just as He did when I first started reading His Word; God began speaking to me again.
I cried out to God; why are you so distant? (James 4:8) What is wrong?
The first thing He did was give me a vision:
It was of a large cylinder or drum that should have been turning, but, it was rusted and couldn’t turn at all:
It wasn’t working anymore.
He led me to understand that what wasn’t working anymore was my ability to think:
“You must love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul, MIND, and strength.”
He let me know that I had stopped using the mind He gave me to understand His Word; which is critical because:
“When any one hears the Word of the Kingdom, and doesn’t understand it, then the wicked one comes, and takes away that which was sown in his heart.”
The mind He gave me to reason with Him: “Come let us reason together”.
The mind He gave me to convince the unsaved of the truth of God’s Word:
“Always be ready to give an answer to everyone that asks you to give the reason for the hope that is in you”.
“And Paul, as his manner was, went in among them, and on three Sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures” Acts 17:2, 18:4,19, 24:25
Since I was no longer listening to the teachings of men:
God could once again speak to me through His Word The Bible; just as He did when He started His relationship with me.
“You have left your first love. Remember therefore from where you have fallen, and repent, and do the first works.”
My first love and my first works were listening to and obeying God as He would speak to me through His Word, and I was joyfully working out my own salvation with fear and trembling, as God changed my will, to desire to do His will. He also empowered me to carry out His will; which was to change me daily, by His Grace, into the image of Jesus.
Remember—as I stated in my testimony—no man talked me into becoming a Christian.
No one witnessed to me: I was completely alone; it was just me and God’s Word.
God convinced me of my desperate sinfulness, my indefensible guilt, and my absolute need of Jesus The Messiah to save me from the eternal punishment I had earned, as He spoke directly to me through His Word The Bible.
My foundation, when God first started His relationship with me, was His Word The Bible.
The only time I ever listened to men, instead of God’s Word, was when I was following Hobart Freeman and “The Faith Message”.
And, little by little, my personal connection to Jesus slipped away, as I substituted “the faith message” for a relationship with Jesus through God’s Word.
***
The Dangers of Believing Error
In the first place, every deviation from the truth is a sin. It is not simply a sin for me to do a wrong act, but it is a sin for me to believe a wrong doctrine. Lately our ministers have absolved us all from obeying God in our judgments; they have told us point blank, (many of them, in their drawing-rooms, and some of them in the pulpit) that we shall never be asked in the Day of Judgment what we believed. We have been told that for our actions we shall be responsible, but for our faith we shall be irresponsible (or something very much like it). They have told us plainly, that the God who made us, although He has authority over our hands, our feet, our eyes and our lips, hath but little authority over our judgments; they have told us, that if we make ever such blunders in divinity, there are no sins, so long as we can live right lives. But is that true? No: the whole man is bound to serve God; and if God gives me a judgment, I am bound to employ that judgment in His service; and if that judgment receives an untruth, it has received stolen goods, and I have sinned as much as if I put forth my hand to take my neighbor’s goods. There may be degrees in the sin. If it be a sin of ignorance, it is nevertheless a sin; but it is not so heinous as a sin of negligence, which I fear it is with many.
I tell you, beloved, if, for instance, baptism be not immersion, I commit a sin every time I practice it; and if it be, my brother commits a sin who does not practice it. If election be true, I am committing a sin if I do not believe it; and if final perseverance be true, I am committing a sin before Almighty God, if I do not receive it; and if it be not true, then I sin in embracing what is not scriptural. Error in doctrine is as much a sin as error in practice. In everything we are bound to serve our God with all our might, exercising those powers of judging and believing which He has given unto us; and I warn you, Christians, not to think it is a little thing to hold faith with a feeble hand: it is a sin every time you do aught which makes you waver in the faith of Jesus Christ.
Remember, too, that error in doctrine is not only a sin, but a sin which has a great tendency to increase. When a man once in his life believes a wrong thing, it is marvelous how quickly he believes another wrong thing. Once you open the door to a false doctrine—(Satan says it is but a little one)—ai, but he only puts the little one in like the small end of a wedge, and he means to drive in a larger one; and he will say it is only a little more, and a little more, and a little more. The most damnable heretics who ever perverted the faith of God erred by littles and littles; those who have gone the widest from truth have only gone so slowly…by degrees…
Take care, Christians, if you commit one error, you cannot tell how many more you will commit. “Hold fast the form of sound words,” (That is what the apostle Paul commanded Timothy. Because error in doctrine almost inevitably leads to error in practice. When a man believes wrongly, he will soon act wrongly. Faith has a great influence on our conduct. As a man’s faith, so is he. If you begin to imbibe erroneous doctrines, they soon have an effect on your practice.)
Keep fast to the bulwarks of your Father’s faith. If you do not, the enemy will make sad havoc with you. “Hold fast (as scripture says) the form of sound words which was delivered unto you.”
Charles Spurgeon
***
The obvious way to understand any doctrine taught in the Word of God; especially paradoxes, is to:
Subject the obscure to the straightforward.
The Bible is clear about many things, so always allow that which is clear to be a guide in unraveling that which is not clear.
In other words, trust the perspicuity (clarity, plainness, intelligibility, transparency) of Scripture.
As the old adage goes, "Let the main things be the plain things; and the plain things be the main things."
***
The main difference between a Christian and a religious person is that a Christian understands that it is God who does everything for us by His Grace, and we will always seek to bring Him the glory. Galatians 2:20, 1Cor 1:27-31
As a Christian teacher succinctly put it:
Christianity is 100% God; and 100% us.
“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, because it is God who works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
“But by the grace of God I am what I am: and His grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain;
but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me."
“Now the God of peace… make you perfect in every good work to do His will, working in you that which is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.”
Eph 2:8-10, Gal 2:20, Heb 13:20-21, 2Tim 1:12, Jude 1:24, Prov 21:1
This perspective has helped me greatly as I continue my relationship with my heavenly Father, through His Word/His Son Jesus/His Holy Spirit.
Christians understand that we are only unprofitable servants.
Does the Master of the servant thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not.
So you likewise, when you shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say,
“We are unprofitable servants: we have only done that which was our duty to do.”
As followers of Jesus The Messiah, we understand that we are only doing what God already meant/planned for us to do.
But God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love wherewith He loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, has quickened us together with Messiah, (by Grace you are saved;)
And has raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Messiah Jesus:
That in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His Grace in His kindness toward us through Messiah Jesus.
For by Grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are His workmanship, created in Messiah Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.
Jesus told me this 33yrs ago: John 14:6 I still believe Him.
God's words shall be in your heart: you shall talk of them all day long. Deut 6:6-7
Test all things; Examine all things; Put all things on trial; Prove all things. 1Thes 5:21
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| Re: There's Power in the Blood [message #9585 is a reply to message #9350] |
Fri, 21 June 2013 07:06 |
A_Smoking_Flax
Messages: 34
Registered: November 2012 |
Member |
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Hi sue...
I am sorry that I took so long to answer you, but I have had a lot on my plate lately.
I said I would answer your questions, so here I go...
You said:
Just wondering who this anointed faith teacher was. It would be hard for me to believe a
true teacher wouldn’t be able to have faith that God created the world just because of what a person
from a Creation Seminar said.
* You probably wouldn’t know him he was the second in command at our “faith assembly”.
If you think about the teaching on Heb 11:8, where we were taught that true “faith” is “blind faith”.
“Blind faith” requires NO EVIDENCE AT ALL; because Romans 8:24 and Hebrews 11:1
"teach" that we must have our own “faith” “to stand in the gap” until we receive the “manifestation” of what we are “believing God for”.
None of this is Biblical but Hobart Freeman, who received it from E.W. Kenyon, still believed it.
============================================================ =========================
You said:
Who are these Word of Faith teachers?
I don’t want to assume you mean teachers from Faith Assembly or the other meetings.
Or do you mean some of the teachers on TV who promote a seed faith, give to get message?
* All of “the faith teachers”, everyone of them, received the same “faith message” from the same “teacher”:
Hobart Freeman got it from Kenneth Hagin; Kenneth Hagin plagiarized/stole it, sometimes word for word, from E.W. Kenyon;
Who got it from a “Spiritual” college he attended in Boston, where he learned “spiritual” ideas from
Mary Baker Eddy’s “christian science” and other non-Christian and occult “spiritual” teachers and teachings at that college.
I realize that Hobart Freeman tried to distance himself from the other “faith teachers” especially on JDS.
But all of the teachings/beliefs/practices/ideas of “The Faith Message” come from one source, one man only:
E.W. Kenyon; he and he alone is The Father, Author, and Originator of “The Faith Message/Word of Faith/Faith Teachings/Faith Teachers” etc.
Anything that has to do with the idea of “Faith being a Spiritual Substance, a Spiritual Substance of Power” and all that it entails,
comes from E.W. Kenyon.
============================================================ =========================
I hope this answers your questions.
Again I am sorry that I was so late in giving you my answers.
I noticed that you haven’t participated in any of the posts I have submitted to date.
My hope is that you are thinking about what God’s Word The Bible says relating to “faith”;
Instead of what we were taught to think about it.
His Servant and yours
Tom
You can E-Mail me at AsmokingFlax@live.com
Jesus told me this 33yrs ago: John 14:6 I still believe Him.
God's words shall be in your heart: you shall talk of them all day long. Deut 6:6-7
Test all things; Examine all things; Put all things on trial; Prove all things. 1Thes 5:21
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| Re: There's Power in the Blood [message #9586 is a reply to message #9585] |
Fri, 21 June 2013 07:08 |
A_Smoking_Flax
Messages: 34
Registered: November 2012 |
Member |
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*** What is the Biblical Meaning of the Word "Faith"? ***
Grace and faith are the two most important words in the entire Bible!
Because:
“By grace you have been saved, through faith;
This is not your own doing: it is the gift of God: not a result of anything you’ve done, so that no one may boast.”
We are saved by Grace…
Grace… is not our own doing!
Grace… is the gift of God!
Grace… is not a result of anything we’ve done!
It is by Grace… so that no one may boast.
Through faith…
Faith… is not our own doing! Titus 3:4-5
Faith… is the gift of God! Romans 12:3
Faith… is not a result of anything we’ve done! 1Cor 15:10, Ephesians 2:10
Through faith… so that no one may boast. 2Peter 1:2-3, 1Peter 1:2-5, Galatians 6:14, 2Cor 10:17
You would think that every Christian would know the meaning of these two words:
Since correctly understanding and believing them are the foundation of our salvation.
But this has not been my experience.
I have asked numerous “christians” for the definitions of grace and faith, and without fail these are the responses I have gotten:
Grace is the undeserved favor of God.
And, quoting Hebrews 11:1
“Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”
I have found that “christians” (unsaved "religious" people) and even many true Christians also believe:
Faith is unquestioning belief; belief without any reason or evidence whatsoever: what some call “blind faith”.
AND…
Although most “christians”, and even some true Christians, believe there is some kind of mysterious aspect to “faith”;
It is only “charismatics” following “The Faith Message” who believe that faith is an actual, tangible, spiritual substance; a real spiritual power which is released by us through the act of “believing”: a power that we are required to obtain for ourselves; to store it up; to strengthen it; so that we will become “strong in faith”.
They believe it is the same spiritual power that God used to make the universe:
“Through [the spiritual substance of] faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God”. Or,
We understand that it was through the spiritual substance of faith that God made everything by speaking the Word of Faith.
Not only is it up to us to acquire this spiritual power, but, we must also be able to use it.
The most important part of having “faith” is increasing our prowess/ability to use this power in our daily lives. (James 2:17-18,20,22; “The just shall live [day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute] by faith”. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. When Jesus comes He will be looking for those who have (and use) this spiritual prowess).
We must have enough faith to enable God to do what we desire/need, i.e., receive the desires of our heart, prosper us, heal us, save us, save our families, etc.
Because, if we do not have enough of our own strong faith for God to use:
God can do nothing for us. Matthew 13:58, Mark 6:5-6
*** The Meaning of "Faith" Has Changed ***
Satan understands that there is no way he can change the definition of the word grace.
Everyone understands that the primary meaning of the word grace is undeserved favor (of God).
I believe God won’t allow the meaning to be changed because that is how He saves us… By Grace!
But Satan knows…
The definition of the word faith can be made to seem more mysterious, ethereal, and mystical.
The definition of the word faith has been radically altered over time.
In fact, it has come to mean the exact opposite of its original Biblical definition.
This can be clearly seen in these dictionary definitions starting with the more recent dictionaries and going back in time.
1986: faith, belief without proof; belief without need of certain proof
1962, 1965: faith, a believing without proof
College edition 1953, 1958: faith, unquestioning belief; unquestioning belief in God, religion, etc.
If you go back far enough, the original definition of the word faith can be clearly seen, even in a common dictionary:
And that definition changes everything!
Faith is not belief without proof; or unquestioning belief in God, religion, etc.
Faith is belief based on reason and evidence.
WEBSTER’S 1828 DICTIONARY
FAITH, n. L. fides, fido, to trust; Gr. to persuade,
1. Belief; the assent of the mind to the truth of what is declared by another, resting on his authority and veracity, without other evidence; the judgment that what another states or testifies is the truth.
2. The assent of the mind to the truth of a proposition advanced by another; belief, of probable evidence of any kind.
3. In theology, the assent of the mind or understanding to the truth of what God has revealed.
4. Evangelical, justifying, or saving faith, is the assent of the mind to the truth of divine revelation, on the authority of God's testimony, accompanied with a cordial assent of the will or approbation of the heart; an entire confidence or trust in God's character and declarations, and in the character and doctrines of Christ, with an unreserved surrender of the will to his guidance, and dependence on his merits for salvation. In other words, that firm belief of God's testimony, and of the truth of the gospel, which influences the will, and leads to an entire reliance on Christ for salvation.
Not long ago, it wasn’t only true Christians who understood the exact meaning of the Biblical word faith: everyone understood it!
The Belief of our Reason is an Exercise of Faith, and Faith is an Act of Reason.
It is not reason that is taking my faith away: on the contrary, my faith is based on reason.
It is my imagination and emotions [that are taking my faith away].
The battle is between faith and reason on one side and emotion and imagination on the other.
*** Three Related Greek Words: Pistis, Peitho, Pisteuo ***
What Is The Biblical Meaning Of The Greek Word Translated “Faith”?
Anyone who is teaching God’s Word, has a responsibility to be sure that the meaning of a word translated into English is the actual meaning of the Greek word, before he uses that word to teach anything i.e., theology or a Biblical principle.
Baptize, church, saint; these words no longer have the same meaning in English that they have in the Greek.
Any correct Biblical teaching/theology/principle has to be based upon the actual meaning of the word, not its current, popular, incarnation/deviation.
For example, in John 21:15-17, there are two different Greek words, with two different meanings, both translated as “love”.
When you understand that two different kinds of “love” are used, you then understand that Jesus did not ask Peter the same question three times, but, Jesus actually asked Peter three different questions.
The Biblical definition of the word which is translated faith is persuasion.
FAITH [Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of The Bible]
G4102 pistis (From G3982; Believe)
Persuasion, that is, credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.
Persuasion
1. The act of persuading; the act of influencing the mind by arguments or reasons
2. The state of being persuaded or convinced; settled opinion or conviction proceeding from arguments and reasons
Credence
1. Belief; credit; reliance of the mind on evidence of facts derived from other sources than personal knowledge, as from the testimony of others
Conviction
1. The act of proving, determining to be guilty of an offense charged against a person before a legal tribunal; as by the verdict of a jury.
Reliance
1. Rest or repose of mind, resulting from a full belief of the veracity or integrity of a person, or of the certainty of a fact; trust; confidence; dependence. We may have perfect reliance on the promises of God
Constancy
1. Fixedness; a standing firm 2. Fixedness or firmness of mind; 3. Certainty; veracity; reality.
Veracity n. [L. verax, from verus, true.]
1. Habitual observance of truth, or habitual truth 2. Invariable expression of truth
BELIEVE [Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of The Bible]
G3982 peitho (the root word of faith)
A primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by analogy to pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflexively or passively to assent (to evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty): - agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) content, make friend, obey,[b] persuade, trust, yield.
Convince v.t. [L., to vanquish.]
1. To persuade or satisfy the mind by evidence; to subdue the opposition of the mind to truth
2. To convict; to prove 3. To substantiate; to prove.
Believe (pisteuo): is used 250 times throughout the New Testament and is translated: believe, believers, believing, believest, believeth, believed, trust. Its origin is from the word Faith.
BELIEVE [Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of The Bible]
G4100 pisteuo (From G4102)
to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.
Credit
1. Belief; faith; a reliance or resting of the mind on the truth of something said or done.
Trust
1. Confidence; a reliance or resting of the mind on the integrity, veracity, justice, friendship or other sound principle of another person.
2. He or that which is the ground of confidence.
Confidence
1. A trusting, or reliance; an assurance of mind or firm belief in the integrity, stability or veracity of another, or in the truth and reality of a fact.
Biblical Faith is:
Persuasion in what God tells us, which convinces us to believe God, and to trust in God, and to rely on God alone to perform what He said in His Word.
*** The Greek Word Translated Substance ***
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance…
The biblical meaning of the word faith is clear; it means persuasion.
The biblical meaning of the word substance is also clear.
Substance [Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of The Bible]
G5287 hupostasis
From a compound of G5259: hupo, under; and G2476: histemi, to stand; a setting under (support)
You can see the basis of the word substance, when you take the word apart, sub and stance:
sub; under, beneath, and stance; to stand. Foundation would be a better translation of the word.
So instead of faith being a spiritual substance of power and our prowess/ability to use it;
Hebrews 11:1 would be better translated as:
Now persuasion in God’s Word is the foundation of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Or expanded it could read:
Persuasion in God, belief in God, trust in God, and reliance on God alone is the foundation of everything I hope for;
Persuasion in God, belief in God, trust in God, and reliance on God alone is the evidence of things I have not yet seen.
There is no “power” in biblical faith.
The word faith simply means God has persuaded us through His Word, to believe Him, and because we believe Him,
we trust in Him, and rely on Him alone to fulfill His Promises to us.
Biblical faith is not belief/faith in our own mastery of a “Spiritual Substance of Power”, what some have described as “having faith in our faith”.
*** The Full Meaning of the Word Grace ***
Grace and Truth came by Jesus The Messiah.
God’s Grace, on the other hand, does contain THE POWER OF GOD TO CHANGE US SPIRITUALLY, ETERNALLY.
GRACE [Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of The Bible]
G5485 charis
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially
The divine influence upon the heart, [Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.]
And its reflection in the life; [Order my steps in your word: and do not let any iniquity/wickedness have dominion over me.]
Including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).
Graciousness n. Kind condescension.
GRACE [Thayer’s Greek Definitions]
G5485 charis
2) good will, loving-kindness, favor
2a) of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting His holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues.
God, [Who has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace.]
Exerting His holy influence upon souls, [No man is able to come to Me if the Father who sent Me does not give him the desire to come. Make me to go in the path of Your Commandments.]
Turns them to Christ, [No man is able to come to Me if he is not given the power to do so by My Father.]
Keeps, [Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy. I know Him in whom I have believed, and I am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day.]
Strengthens, [Be strong in the Lord, and in the power of His might. I can do all things through Messiah who strengthens me.]
Increases them in Christian faith, [The Christian doctrines/persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God. Go on fighting strongly for the Christian faith which was once delivered to the saints. God has dealt to every man The Measure of faith (persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God).]
Knowledge, [In Messiah are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.]
Affection, [Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us, and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. If we love one another, God dwells in us, and His love is perfected in us.]
and
Kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues. [Now the God of peace… make you perfect in every good work to do His will, working in you that which is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.]
*** Christians Are God Centered ***
Back to Ephesians 2:8-9
“By grace you have been saved, through faith; This is not your own doing:
It is the gift of God: not a result of anything you’ve done, so that no one may boast.”
We are saved by grace…
Grace… is not our own doing!
Grace… is the gift of God!
Grace… is not a result of anything we’ve done!
It is by Grace… so that no one may boast.
Through faith…
Faith… is not our own doing!
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.
Faith… is the gift of God!
God has dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Faith… is not a result of anything we’ve done!
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and His grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Through faith… so that no one may boast.
Grace and peace be multiplied unto you… according as His divine power has given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness.
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father… Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God alone unto salvation.
But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
But he that boasts, let him boast in the Lord.
There have always been only two ways: God’s way, or man’s way.
By Grace you have been saved, through faith!
Is it man centered?
I am saved by grace, through My Faith!
I am saved by grace; which God only gives, because I released My Spiritual Power of Faith.
It is only because I released My Spiritual Power of Faith, that God can save me by grace.
Or, is it God centered?
I am so persuaded by God, Who said He saved me by His Grace, that I believe I am saved by His Grace, and I trust in His gift of Grace for my salvation, and I rely on His free gift of Grace alone to save me for eternity.
Either God gets all the Glory! And no one has anything at all to boast of.
1 Corinthians 1 :30-31, 15:10, 2 Corinthians 4:7, Galatians 6:14, Ephesians 2:4-10, 4:6-7, 5:20, Philippians 4:19, Colossians 1:12-14, 1 Thessalonians 3:12-13, 2 Thessalonians 2:16-17, 1 Peter 1:3-5, 4:11, 5:6,10-11
Or…
Man gets the Glory; and we can boast of our own accomplishments. Luke 18:11-14, James 4:13-16
For a Christian it is obvious: Salvation, of body, soul, and spirit; is of The LORD! God Alone Gets All The Glory!
The difference can be seen in which word we emphasize in the question asked by Jesus: “Where is your faith?”
Now it came to pass on a certain day, that He went into a ship with His disciples: and He said unto them, Let us go over unto the other side of the lake. And they launched forth. But as they sailed He fell asleep: and there came down a storm of wind on the lake; and they were filled with water, and were in jeopardy. And they came to Him, and awoke Him, saying, “Master, master, we perish”. Then He arose, and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water: and they ceased, and there was a calm. And Jesus said unto them, “Where is your faith?” Luke 8:22-25
As “Overcomers” we were taught:
Jesus was rebuking them for coming to Him for help!
He was chastising them for not trusting in their own faith; for not relying on their own faith; for not using their own faith to get them out of trouble:
“Where is your faith?
Where is your own spiritual prowess!? Your ability to use the spiritual power of your own faith!?
You should have used your own spiritual prowess to stop the boat from sinking!
This is something that you should have been able to do for yourselves ! You should not have needed Me to do it for you!
The Christian point of view is looking only to God and not ourselves.
Jesus is simply admonishing us to trust and rely on God, our Father; no matter what the situation.
“Where is your faith?”
Where is your persuasion in God that causes you to believe Him, to trust in Him, and rely on Him to keep us safe, even in the midst of this storm?
Jesus tells us to have persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God.
Again…
And when Jesus departed from there, two blind men followed Him, crying, and saying, Thou Son of David, have mercy on us. And when He was come into the house, the blind men came to Him: and Jesus said to them, Do you believe that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yes, Lord. Then He touched their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you. Matthew 9:27-29
What is the emphasis?
Let it be unto you according to your faith: according to your prowess/ability to use the spiritual power of your own faith.
But Jesus didn’t ask them if they had enough faith to receive healing;
Jesus asked them: “Do you believe that I am able to do this?
Their answer was yes, Lord Jesus; we believe that You are able to do this.
According to your faith, According to your persuasion in God, that causes you to believe Him, to trust in Him, and to rely on Him to give you your sight.
(The Father that dwells in Me, He does the works.)
So then your own Spiritual Power/Prowess comes by hearing!
Or,
So then persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God comes by hearing the Word of God.
One is reliance on your own “faith”.
As he was “teaching” about Romans 10:17, an “anointed” faith teacher said: If I need faith for something that I am “believing for”, I just say it out loud; and when I hear myself speak, that brings faith: because, faith comes by hearing!
The other is looking to God alone.
Persuasion in God, belief in God, trust in God and reliance on God alone comes from listening to the Word of God.
If, as one “anointed" teacher said: “God never does anything out of compassion. God only responds to [your] Faith!”;
Why then, does God speak about/respond to/act upon His own will, mercy and compassion so many times?
Matthew 8:2-3, 9:36, 14:14, 15:32, 20:34, Mark 1:40-41, 5:19, 6:34, 8:2, Luke 5:12-13, 7:12-15, 9:11, 13:11-13, 10:33, 15:20
Romans 9:15, Hebrews 5:2, 1 Peter 3:8, Jude 1:21-22
If Jesus believed the “faith message”:
When His apostles asked Him to “increase their faith” He would have told them that to make their faith strong they needed to exercise it daily like a muscle, by “believing God” for their desires, needs, etc.; letting their faith (spiritual substance) “stand in the gap” until the full manifestation of what they are “believing for” comes to pass.
Instead, Jesus told them:
If they had persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God, as small as a grain of mustard seed, that would be enough to do the impossible.
Jesus did not teach that we need to build up our “faith”; instead, He knew that our heavenly Father has given to each of us “The Measure” of faith, and that is more than enough.
If Peter believed the “faith message”:
Why didn’t he teach it after he and John had healed the lame man at the gate called Beautiful?
This would have been the perfect time to teach “the faith message” to those who were wondering how this healing had occurred. Peter would have explained that it was his own Spiritual Substance of Power, his own Spiritual Prowess, which came from his own Great Faith that healed this man.
Instead, Peter told them:
Why do you look so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
Peter then preaches Jesus The Messiah to them and reveals how the man was healed:
And His name; Jesus’ Name, Authority, Character; through persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in Jesus’ Name, Authority, Character, has made this man strong. Luke 9:1-2, 10:1,9,16-17
Peter tells them it was Jesus The Messiah who healed this man not their own “spiritual prowess”.
If Paul believed the “faith message”:
He would have told Timothy to continue drinking that contaminated water and “believe God” to make it pure for him.
He also would have “confessed” perfect health over both Timothy and Trophimus.
Instead, Paul told Timothy:
Do not drink the water any longer [because it is contaminated], but use a little wine for your stomach's sake [it will help heal your stomach sickness] and your often infirmities. Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.
*** Which Gospel? God's or Man's? ***
Back to “Jman’s” insightful statement: “No faith stands… until we figure out why the signs and wonders are missing. Something is wrong.”
Jesus told us to “go into the whole world, and preach the gospel to everyone. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that does not believe shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; in my name they shall cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming The Word with signs following. Amen.”
The answer is clear when you understand what Jesus said He would confirm with signs following.
Jesus promised to confirm only one thing with signs following: “The Gospel according to God’s Word”.
If there are no signs, it is because we are preaching a different Gospel; not the Gospel according to God’s Word!
The “faith message” is a false gospel.
The Biblical word gospel means: a good message.
G2098 euaggelion From the same as G2097; a good message, that is, the gospel: - gospel.
The “gospel” is the foundational message upon which all of your beliefs rest.
The "gospel” is the message of salvation by grace through the sacrifice of Jesus which restores us to a right standing with God.
The "gospel” is the message that we tell everyone as we evangelize the world in obedience to Jesus who commanded us to:
Go into all the world, and preach the good message of salvation through Jesus’ death on the cross, to every creature.
He that is persuaded by the good message, and believes the good message, and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that does not believe [The gospel/good message] shall be damned.
If you believe a false gospel (your foundational message) you are not a Christian, because, there is only one gospel.
I marvel that you are so soon removed from Him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is really no gospel at all;
except there are certain people who trouble you, and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto
you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than
that you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I
yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I declare to you, brethren, that the gospel which was
preached of me is not made up by man.
As a Christian, I am only interested in what God means when He uses a word.
What does the word faith or sub-stance mean according to God’s Word The Bible?
The words believe and faith are related to each other. They have similar meanings. (see above: G4104, pistis; G3982, peitho; and G4100, pisteuo)
Except for Heb 10:23 (which is the word G1680, elpis; which means expectation or confidence) every time the word “faith” is used in the New Testament (regardless of which verse you are using) it is the same word pistis, it means the same thing: persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God.
And sub-stance means: hupostasis: under (sub); and to stand (stance); a setting under (support) or foundation.
The “faith” of “The Faith Message” is based upon an incorrect English translation and a misunderstanding of the definitions of two Greek words, pistis (faith) and hupostasis (sub-stance).
And,
An unbiblical, foundational emphasis based on only four words: “faith is the substance”:
Which is believed to mean: “faith is a spiritual substance”, “a spiritual substance of power”.
The “faith message” teaches faith as a work that we are responsible to produce for ourselves, for our own salvation: Thy Faith Has Saved Thee! You must work out your own salvation with fear and trembling!
The Biblical word “faith” cannot be the foundation for a belief in a mystical, spiritual substance of “power” released by us when we truly “believe” because: faith means persuasion, belief, trust and reliance in God: and, sub-stance means foundation.
The “faith message” is a false gospel designed by men, who “use” God’s Word to teach unbiblical doctrines that seem correct/Biblical to those of us who are following them, because, they “use” the Bible to “prove” their unorthodox teachings as “christian”.
These men apply a form of “biblical” interpretation called eisegesis; which allows them to interject their own personal ideas/beliefs/understanding into their “interpretation” of the bible; which they then present as “biblical” by means of biblical “proof-texting”. They start by taking their own unbiblical doctrine(s) and then “seek out” verses that say/prove what they believe; providing “proof” from the “text” of the bible that it is “biblical”. This often requires that certain words, or even whole verses, be taken out of their context, in order to be “understood” as they need/wish them to be.
Take for instance the teaching that we alone are responsible to keep ourselves “saved”; which was (along with other verses) proof-texted with : “You must work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”
Sounds right, it is what the Bible says. But, we were never told to read the second half of the verse, which adds:
“Because it is God who works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
The balance provided by God’s word, persuades us that we can believe Him and trust in Him and rely on Him, to make sure that we not only desire to do His will; but, that God our Father, will empower us, by His Grace, to actually do His will.
This one should be very familiar:
We were taught to be careful about the words that we speak, because, just like God, we have the “power” to “speak things into being”. And, because we have this “power”, we must not make any “negative confessions” which can “snare” us, and cause us to not receive whatever it is we are “confessing into being”.
And the proof-text offered for this “biblical truth”:
“You are snared by the words of your mouth, you are taken by the words of your mouth.”
But when you look at the context of this verse, you find that, once again, it is only half of the sentence; which in context actually reads:
“My son, if you are surety for your friend [co-signer of his loan], if you have stricken your hand with a stranger [given your word that you will do something],
You are snared by the words of your mouth, you are taken by the words of your mouth.”
This simply means that, if a friend asks you to be a co-signer of his loan; and you promise that you will take on this obligation; or you promise to do something for a stranger:
Because “you gave your word”; you are obligated (“snared”) to keep your word/promise. Because, as a follower of The God of The Bible, Who says regarding promises He makes: “God is not a man, that He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent: has He said, and shall He not do it? or has He spoken, and shall He not make it good?”: we are also required to keep our word whenever we give it. Matthew 5:37
*** The Root of the "Faith Message" ***
I know that Hobart Freeman told us not to look into Kenyon’s past or teachings; but, after I left the “church”, I did.
I needed to find out what was wrong with what I believed.
The “faith message”, as it is currently believed/practiced, began with the teachings of a man named E.W. Kenyon.
Kenneth Hagin plagiarized Kenyon's "faith message"; and he taught it to Hobart Freeman and all the other "faith" teachers.
You may remember Tom Hamilton’s adage:
“People say that what we teach sounds like “christian science”! It’s not “christian science”; it’s christian sense.”
In 1892, E.W. Kenyon attended Emerson College, a “spiritual” institution inundated with metaphysical, cultic ideas and practices. Unitarianism, Metaphysics, New Thought, and Mary Baker Eddy’s “christian science” were some of the “spiritual” influences advocated and taught to students at this school.
Charles Mallory, a frequent guest lecturer at the college, said of Emerson College, This is a school where the philosophy of life is taught. It ought to be called, “The First Church of Emerson.”
The college was named for its founder Charles Wesley Emerson, who was a believer in, and an advocate of:
Unitarianism, Metaphysics, New Thought, Mary Baker Eddy’s “christian science”, and Phineas P. Quimby (Eddy’s mentor).
*** Believing/Following/Obeying God or Men ***
Jesus explains why people do not believe what He says:
You do not believe [what I say], because you are not of My sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
He that is of God hears, listens to, and obeys God's words: you therefore do not hear, listen to, and obey them, because you are not of God.
This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
But in vain do they worship me, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.
You ignore God's commandments, and you are holding on to the teachings that men have made up.
And He said unto them, Full well you reject the commandment of God, so that you may keep your own tradition.
Either we are following the teachings of men or we are following God according to His Word.
The following story illustrates the point:
Not long ago, my wife and I invited an “assistant pastor” (he held a job as a “pastor” for 25 years) from a local “Baptist” “church” to have him look into God’s Word with us to discuss the doctrines we hold as being Biblical i.e., clearly taught in the Bible. We thought we would start with something easy, like marriage/divorce/and remarriage, or tongues. We have often wondered how a Christian could possibly ignore the clear definition of adultery given by Jesus in Matthew 19:3-12, and allow anyone to remarry; regardless of Jesus’ one and only exception for remarriage; or annul the Biblical truth of “tongues” as plainly taught in 1Corinthians 14; I was hoping to dispel the misunderstanding about tongues, that comes from not recognizing that God is speaking about three different “kinds” of tongues in this chapter.
I thought the best way to start was to have us read these verses together, and then talk about them: simple enough?
But…
As our friend started to “read” from his Bible, my wife and I tried to follow along with him but couldn’t. We were all using the King James Version; yet, not even one word that he “read” from his Bible could be found in our King James Bibles. At first this caused much confusion; where are the words that he is “reading” from his bible? Why aren’t those words in our Bibles?
Then it dawned on us what was happening:
Instead of reading God’s Word to guide us/teach us about tongues… he was “reading” into his bible the “Baptist” doctrine of how “tongues” had passed away and were no longer necessary for the “church” during this time etc., etc., etc.
This not only astounded us, it became a valuable lesson, illustrating a serious problem endemic in the “church” and in “christians”:
They cannot read, believe, understand, follow, or obey God’s Word; because they only read, believe, understand, follow and obey the doctrines of men.
This man was hoping to indoctrinate us into the “Baptist” “teaching” about “tongues”.
What he did not know was that we are Jesus’ sheep, Christians, who know, believe and follow God/God’s Word. We cannot follow man’s teachings.
Without knowing it, this “pastor” became the “poster-boy” to illustrate exactly what is wrong with the “church” at this point in time: when “christians” “read” God’s Word, they can only hear what men told them to hear; they can only believe what men told them to believe; they can only understand what men told them to understand.
This “pastor” was incapable of even reading God’s Word without interjecting man’s interpretation/doctrines directly into the text of the Bible as he “reads” it.
This is frightening! Imagine what it would be like to never again hear from God through His Word. To only believe and follow what men tell you to believe and follow? To be incapable of reading God’s Word without filtering it through man’s ideas/interpretation/doctrines/beliefs. To always read God’s Word with a veil over your heart and mind.
Their minds were blinded: for until this day remains the same veil not taken away in the reading of God’s Word; which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when God’s Word is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. Matthew 13:9, 13-15
They teach man-made ideas as if they were the Word of God.
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who did not believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
I believe God’s people today are in the same position they were in when Jesus first came to turn them back to God/God’s Word: they didn’t believe or even know the Word of God anymore, because their “religious” “leaders” were teaching their own doctrines and not The Word of God. Mark 1:22,27, 11:18, Luke 4:32,36, John 7:15-17, Matthew 7:28, 22:33, 2 Cor 2:17, Colossians 2:18-22 2Tim 4:1-4, Titus 1:9-16
In the Bible, Christians are those who believe, trust and follow Jesus the Messiah. The Jesus revealed in God’s Word.
Throughout my life I have met, and know of, many people who identify themselves as:
“Catholics”
“Jehovah’s Witness’”
“Lutherans”
“Red Letter christians”
“Baptists”
“Methodists”
“Mormons”
“Charismatics”
“Overcomers”
And they admit they are following:
The Pope/church
The Watchtower/Awake/prophets
Martin Luther/church
The Social gospel/socialist/communist/”reformers”
Baptist teachings?
The Social gospel/socialist/communist/”reformers”
The Book of Mormon/Joseph Smith/Brigham Young/prophets
Anointed teachers/apostles/prophets/the Holy Spirit/the still small inner voice/personal revelations/”revelation knowledge”
The Faith Message/anointed teachers/apostles/prophets/the Holy Spirit/the still small inner voice/personal revelations/”revelation knowledge”
I once found someone online who had almost the exact/same testimony as mine, except, at the end of my testimony,
I became a Christian, a follower of Jesus The Messiah.
And at the end of his testimony, he became a “christian” AND, a “Lutheran”.
“christians” are unsaved “religious” people who are following men instead of following Jesus through God’s Word.
All the unbiblical beliefs that they hold to while disregarding the clear teaching of God’s Word to the contrary, are proof that they are following men and not God: Infant baptism, “Sacraments”, the “Eucharist”, the “Mass”, if you go to “church” you are a “christian”, etc.
These are more beliefs, taught by men, which are not found anywhere in the New Testament:
“Pleading The Blood of Jesus”,
“Believeing God For”,
“Anointed” teachers,
Only “anointed” teachers can “teach” God’s Word,
“The Fresh Bread from Heaven”/“The New Word of God”,
“Touch not the Lord’s anointed!”
Negative/positive “confessions”,
We have the power to “speak things into being”, just like God,
Christians calling themselves “The End Time Army of God”,
Christians calling themselves “Overcomers”,
Christians living a “Deeper Life”,
“The faith message” i.e., faith is a Spiritual Power.
*** Return to God's Word The Bible ***
When I started my journey with Messiah Jesus, my wife, my two brothers and I used to sit around with our Bibles open and talk about The Word of God. We used to discuss the Scriptures we had read, and wonder at how great God is. Those days were a great time of fellowship with each other around God’s Word. But, those times of sharing God’s Word ended when we joined “faith assembly” and I lost Christian fellowship with my brothers.
My first love was Jesus/God's Word. I would read my Bible (ten chapters) every day and talk about Jesus/God’s Word with every person I met. Deut 6:6-7.
This is what I believe Jesus meant about us recognizing that we had forsaken our first love, to remember where we were (spiritually) before we fell, and to stop going any farther in the wrong direction and repent (turn around), and do the first works again. Rev 2:4-5
God “woke me up” when I returned to my first love, about six years ago.
Now this is what I am holding on to: the salvation of my heart, soul, mind, body, and spirit by the Grace of God, which is the power of God, to keep me saved, and to keep me safe with Him, now and for all eternity.
I am persuaded by what God says to me in The Bible,
To believe what God says to me in The Bible,
To trust in God as my heavenly Father,
And to rely on my heavenly Father, to keep the promises, that He has persuaded me to believe.
If you continue in My word, then are you My disciples indeed; and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.
Set Free by Jesus: The Word of God.
His servant and yours
Tom
Please! Read my entire testimony “How I Met The God Of The Bible” in “Introductions and General”.
It will help you to understand why I cannot/will not follow or believe the teachings of men.
The foundation for all of my beliefs was, and always will be God’s Word The Bible.
(Except for the six-year detour, when I followed/believed the faith message/Hobart Freeman.)
Please! Read and carefully consider this entire post before you bring up any questions.
Please! Look up the words “faith” and “substance” in “Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible” before you bring up any questions.
Please! Let’s stay on one subject at a time.
Please! Respond only to the main topic of this post which is:
The “faith message” is a false gospel based upon man-made ideas about “faith” being a Spiritual Substance of Power.
The entire foundation for their false gospel stands upon two mistranslated words: faith (is the) substance.
Which they falsely interpret as: faith is a Spiritual Substance, a Spiritual Substance of Power.
And so they misunderstand Heb 11:1 to say: Trust in My Own Spiritual Substance of Power is the only way I can obtain everything I hope for,
my Own Spiritual Substance of Power stands in the place of things I am "believing God for" but haven't yet seen.
But, God’s Word says:
Persuasion in God's Word, belief in God, trust in God and reliance on God alone, is the foundation of everything that I hope for,
persuasion in God's Word, belief in God, trust in God and reliance on God alone, is all the evidence I need to believe I will see Him fulfill all of His promises.
Biblical faith means:
God reasons with us through His Word The Bible,
and through His Word He persuades us to believe what He says,
which causes us to trust in Him and to rely on Him alone to fulfill His promises.
Jesus told me this 33yrs ago: John 14:6 I still believe Him.
God's words shall be in your heart: you shall talk of them all day long. Deut 6:6-7
Test all things; Examine all things; Put all things on trial; Prove all things. 1Thes 5:21
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| Re: There's Power in the Blood [message #9595 is a reply to message #9586] |
Sat, 22 June 2013 23:59 |
Mark L
Messages: 855
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
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Hi Bro. I did as you said and carefully read through your comments.
My response is again that you do not understand either the faith message or what Hef taught.
Here is one eg among many:
He believed that God cannot save us from our selves; from our own natural tendency to wander away from Him.
Freeman taught that God can save us; but, God cannot keep us saved: staying saved depends entirely on us.
That is just totally and completely wrong. And it is only one eg out of many. I can't speak to what all the teachers at FA and its affiliates taught but I can speak to what Hef taught. I also don't know anyone in the faith message that believes that.
You do not understand either what you are teaching or what what Hef taught.
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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| Re: There's Power in the Blood [message #9598 is a reply to message #9595] |
Mon, 24 June 2013 01:02 |
Mark L
Messages: 855
Registered: October 2006
Location: Canada |
Senior Member |
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I also don't know anyone in the faith message that believes that.
I said that but want to add that with all the splintering that has gone on and everything from hardliners to faith lite even on our board here its possible that some somewhere believe it.
edited to change faith light to faith lite
[Updated on: Tue, 25 June 2013 03:56]
You can read
"Meanderings on Scripture by Mark
https://mlederman.substack.com/
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