Home » Theological Doctrine » Eschatology » The Temple Mount
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9887 is a reply to message #9877] |
Fri, 04 October 2013 00:30   |
 Marilyn Crow
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Location: Australia |
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Hi Gary, You pointed out these scriptures -
Matt. 24: 36 - 44
Some more good scriptures showing that Jesus was talking to Israel concerning His coming for them as a thief in the night. He comes as `a thief,` to them because they are in darkness. (Rom.11: 8 -10) Remember they not only rejected the Lord, the Messiah, but they also, as a nation rejected the Holy Spirit.
(Acts 28: 23 - 28)And it is not until after the tribulation when the Lord comes to them as their Messiah that God pours out His Holy Spirit upon them & they receive Him whom they have pierced.
`And I will pour out on the house of David & on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace & of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; & will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son....` (Zech. 12: 10)
Also notice in Matt. 24: 36 that Jesus said that `not even the Son` not even He knew when that day would be. Why? Jesus, when He was on earth put aside His omniscience (etc) (Phil. 2: 7)& thus only operated as a man obedient to the Holy Spirit.
Now of course we know that the ascended, glorified & exalted Lord Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of the father on His throne, equal, one with the Father & Holy Spirit & has all the attributes of the Godhead, omniscience being one. Thus now as the head of the Body Christ by HIs Holy Spirit leads us in the light & tells us quite clearly that -
`you are all sons of light & sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness.....` Thus `the day should not overtake you like a thief.` We, in the Body of Christ will not be overtaken by surprise at the Lord`s coming. (1 Thess. 5: 4 & 5) We are also told that we will see the day coming & that as we do see the day coming closer & closer we are to encourage each other & more & more as it draws nigh. (Heb. 10: 25)
Thus because we are not in darkness but connected to Christ the Head who leads us on & is confirming more & more as the day draws near to be expectant, aware, ready & not surprised.
No one is going to `impress God,` because the motives of our hearts will be exposed to all. (1 Cor. 4: 5)
And I`m sure, Gary, as we come closer & closer my estimate will be revised & revised. As we all know there is still much refining in our lives & corporately yet to happen.
Marilyn C
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9888 is a reply to message #9879] |
Fri, 04 October 2013 00:46 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
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james
(Quote)`I'm not sure I can agree that The Body of Christ is walking in unity at this time, maybe small segments(remnant). The statement, "...has us in unity..." seems in conflict with Eph. 4:13 which says,"...until we all come to the unity of the faith..."`(unquote)
Maybe I was not clear but those two unities are different. Man cannot bring the `unity of the Spirit,` as it is only by the Holy Spirit, when we are saved that that happens. That is why it needs to be preserved by our right attitude otherwise we will disqualify ourselves. That `unity of the Spirit,` is foundational & upon which the next unity is built. The `unity of Faith,` of what we believe. And as you rightly said there are so many denominations & creeds, man-made. But if we look back over the centuries we can see the progressive unfolding of truth by the Holy Spirit across the Body. The man made structures loom big & get the airspace but the true Body of Christ continues to be formed in the secret places & will be revealed in the Lord`s timing as you said.
(Quote) The return of The Lord will be timed perfectly and in the meantime we can and should live expectantly and with hope, sharing this hope with all men. (Unquote)
That is my heart`s desire also, james, to continue to share our hope with others. My friends & I find that this message of God`s word telling us about our times is very well received by non Christians & a great introduction to how relevant God`s word is today in every aspect of our lives.
Marilyn C
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9899 is a reply to message #9887] |
Fri, 04 October 2013 20:13 |
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Gary
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Location: Indiana |
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| Quote: |
Marilyn wrote:Some more good scriptures showing that Jesus was talking to Israel concerning His coming for them as a thief in the night. He comes as `a thief,` to them because they are in darkness.
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Hi Marilyn,
Could you please show me where you got this statement that Jesus is talking to Israel?
In the Bible it says: Jesus was setting alone on the Mt. of Olives, He was not preaching in a synagogue, nor in the temple, nor was He addressing a group of Israelites, He was not speaking to Pharisees, Sadducees, Lawyers or scribes.
In verse four of that chapter it says He is speaking in "private" to His disciples.
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
The next two chapters of the Bible Jesus is talking to His disciples about the end times in "private".
These passages are for us as well His disciples.
Jesus is telling us that:
42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
He is clearly speaking to His disciples and not to Israel and anyone in darkness.
I don't understand where you came up with this meaning when the Bible is very clear on who Jesus is talking to.
Gary
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9902 is a reply to message #9899] |
Fri, 04 October 2013 23:02 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
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Hi Gary.
Some more good questions re: Matt. 24. Yes Jesus is just talking to His disciples, as you so rightly point out. He was not speaking to the leaders of Israel because they had rejected Him. It was but two more days till He was to be crucified.
(Matt. 26: 2)
So we read that the Lord is talking to His disciples concerning when He would come again to Israel. The disciples were then to go & tell others in Israel about what Jesus had told them. Then later the disciples passed on this message about the Day of the Lord onto the Christians. For we read in 1 Thess. 5: 1 - 5 that they knew about the times & seasons & that the Day of the Lord would come, as Jesus said `like a thief,` to those in darkness.
And what joy those early Christians would have had to realise that God had not destined them for wrath and that the day of the Lord would not come to them as a thief, for they were not in darkness.
I read again your questions & see that you also ask about `those in darkness.` The disciples Jesus was speaking to were not in darkness, as you said. However Israel as a nation was as they rejected & killed their Messiah. And the Jewish generations that followed were also in darkness & will be till the Lord comes & reveals Himself to them on Mount of Olives. (Acts: 23 - 28. Rom. 11: 8 - 10. Zech. 12: 10)
Hope that explains it for you.
Now Gary my question, Can you now share what you think of 1 Thess. 5: 4?
[Updated on: Fri, 04 October 2013 23:14]
Marilyn C
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9903 is a reply to message #9902] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 01:24 |
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GWB
Messages: 708
Registered: March 2008
Location: Louisville, Ky area |
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Marilyn,
First of all, I love your being here on OO. You do challenge what one believes! Lol
Do you see the day and times?
What, exactly, does days and times mean?
What is the gauge for days and times today?
Whoaahhhh on Jews killing Jesus. Christians have killed and have persecuted the Jews for hundreds of years because of this error. Please explain.
Essentially, you are touching God's anointed Nation, Israel, for accusing them of murdering Jesus.
"Touch not my anointed."
Backing up now.......
Shalom,
GWB
"Be still and know that I am God."
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9904 is a reply to message #9903] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 01:52 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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| GWB wrote on Fri, 04 October 2013 20:24 |
Whoaahhhh on Jews killing Jesus. Christians have killed and have persecuted the Jews for hundreds of years because of this error. Please explain.
Essentially, you are touching God's anointed Nation, Israel, for accusing them of murdering Jesus.
"Touch not my anointed."
Backing up now.......
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OK! We know it was the Roman soldiers who actually carried out the crucification; but how many scriptures do you want that says the Jews 'killed' Him? Matt. 27:24-25; John 10:30-33; Acts 2:22-23. Of course it wasn't the entire Jewish population, but the leaders and those gathered against Him.
Unless it's past my bedtime and I'm getting foggy, I totally disagree that in no way is anyone (Marilyn) touching God's anointed...That seems waaay outa context and reason...not to mention, untrue.
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9905 is a reply to message #9904] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 02:05 |
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GWB
Messages: 708
Registered: March 2008
Location: Louisville, Ky area |
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Great references.
The Word says it was the multitudes. You can't take one scripture out of context.
So, James, did the Jews kill Jesus? Do you agree with Marilyn?
Can you spell NAZI?
Can you spell Crusades?
Still backing up.....
[Updated on: Sat, 05 October 2013 02:18]
Shalom,
GWB
"Be still and know that I am God."
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9906 is a reply to message #9903] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 02:18 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
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Hi Gary,
I so appreciate you as you have such a good attitude plus you do say things up front.
Now to some of your questions -
ISRAEL
Firstly I believe we have all `killed the Lord,` in the aspect of our sins. But wasn`t it the `chief priests & elders of the people ` that `took counsel against Jesus to put Him to death;
& they bound Him, & led Him away, & delivered Him up to Pilate the governor.`(Matt. 27:1 & 2)
And then further on how those particular people, the chief priests & elders, accused Jesus before Pilate. Then they persuaded the multitudes to ask for the release of Barabbas instead of Jesus. (Matt. 27: 12 & 20)
You are right I cannot say the Jews killed Jesus for specifically it was those specific chief priests & elders who gave Jesus up to the Romans who actually physically carried out the deed.
Now these particular chief priests & elders represented the Nation of Israel in their leadership positions before God. Yet they still turned away from the truth, even when Paul, a Hebrew of the Hebrews opened up the word to them to show them about Jesus being the Messiah. (Acts 28: 17, 23 - 27)
Many people in Israel did not agree with crucifying Jesus but the Nation as a whole has yet to turn to their Messiah.
`They will look on Me whom they have pieced...` (Zech. 12: 10)
TIMES & SEASONS
Now as regard to the `times & seasons,` which Paul said that the Thessalonians knew about, they would be the `set times` that God has appointed for His purposes.
Daniel`s appointed time for the end of the Gentile Rulers,
The appointed time for Israel`s chastisement to come to an end.
And other appointed times mentioned in Daniel for specific events to occur.
Then there are the Days -
The Day of Christ. (For the Body of Christ)
The Day of the Lord (God). (For Israel & the nations)
The Day of God. (New Heavens & New Earth - consummation of all things)
Much to talk about. How are you going with my question of 1 Thess.5: 4?
Keeping you busy, Gary.
Marilyn C
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9908 is a reply to message #9907] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 02:57 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
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Hi Gillyann,
You`ve all got me thinking as I have never actually thought from your perspective. When you say
(Quote)Either the Jews were completely responsible for His death or not. Thousands upon thousands of Jews have died due to this brand of unclear thinking. (/Quote)
Firstly do you mean just the Jews, at that time? & just those chief priests & elders?
Actually it is clear from God`s word what God says.
`Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord & Christ - this Jesus whom you crucified.` (Acts 2: 36)
The Apostle Peter a Jew of the Nation of Israel said -
`Men of Judea, & all you who live in Jerusalem ....& `Men of Israel....` (Acts 2: 14, 22)
As to Jews being persecuted down through the ages it would be because Satan wants as always to destroy God`s Nation that will one day rule the world. Yes some people may use that thought `the Jews killed Jesus,` as an excuse for a scape goat but in doing so shows who they are of - the devil.
Gillyann, what is `midrashing?`
PS. Will think on those other questions you raised re: signs etc.
[Updated on: Sat, 05 October 2013 03:00]
Marilyn C
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9912 is a reply to message #9909] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 03:18 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
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Thanks for that explanation Gillyann - midrashing, discussing & dividing the word. Great, & oh how we love to handle accurately the word of truth. Takes a bit of listening, sharing, thinking, praying, meditating etc etc. That is why I like it here for you can come back to a topic days, weeks, years afterwards.
So, the multitudes being persuaded by the chief priests & elders cried out for Barabbas. And sadly the multitude said,
`His blood be on us & on our children.` (Matt. 27: 25)
Would be interesting to know if there were other nationalities in the multitude but as God said `house of Israel..this Jesus whom you crucified.` (Acts 2: 36)I have to leave it with what God said in relation to them, but knowing full well that everyone who knows of Jesus down through the ages will all be responsible for that revelation. All our sins took Him there. For if we were there our human nature would have done the same thing. `Away with Him....`
And finally to add to the mix, the Lord Himself lay down His own life as an offering for all our sin.
How wonderful, How blessed we are.
Marilyn C
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9913 is a reply to message #9910] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 03:25 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
Senior Member |
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Gillyann.
I am preparing to answer your questions but think I may start a new thread as this has gone past the temple mount info.
Marilyn C
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9914 is a reply to message #9912] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 03:29 |
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GWB
Messages: 708
Registered: March 2008
Location: Louisville, Ky area |
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Acts 4:10 ".....let it be known to you, and to ALL the people of Israel..."
Blaming Jews alone for His death is flat wrong.
Again, to single Jews out, for His death, is what Hitler and The Crusaders did.
To slander Jews for the death of Messiah is scary.
If you have the nerve to do it, fine.
".....touch not my anointed...."
.....and I won't.
[Updated on: Sat, 05 October 2013 03:31]
Shalom,
GWB
"Be still and know that I am God."
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9916 is a reply to message #9914] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 04:38 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
Senior Member |
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Gillyann.
Good scripture you have pointed out....
The Apostle Peter filled with the Holy Spirit said unto them.
`You rulers of the people, & elders of Israel,......be it known unto you all, & to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus of Nazareth, whom you crucified......`(Acts 4: 8 & 10)
What am I not understanding here Gillyann? We seem to be going around in a circle?
Do you think I am blaming or slandering???
Am I going beyond what the word says?
I see you are also quoting 1 Chron. 16: 22, `Touch not mine anointed...`in relation to God`s everlasting covenant with Israel & those who seek her welfare it will go well with them & those who seek to destroy Israel will go up against God.
So true & even more so as we come up to the final battle of the Gentile powers all coming against little Israel. Won`t that look like an overkill, but we know that the Lord will step in & deliver Israel & make them the head of the nations & not the tail or outcasts. A wonderful future Israel has but yet to go through so much pain.
[Updated on: Sat, 05 October 2013 04:50]
Marilyn C
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9921 is a reply to message #9919] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 05:10 |
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william
Messages: 1464
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| GWB wrote on Fri, 04 October 2013 23:59 |
Kinda vague, William.
I know that believers are not Nazis on here!
However, in these end times, I believe we need to be very specific.
God is, and will be, very specific.
Isn't there a judgment against anyone who mistreats Israel?
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What's vague about it?
Did the Jews kill Jesus? Yes or No. I answered yes to your "yes or no" question (after removing the "alone" part which was added but not needed since no one remotely implied that).
Who's mistreating Israel? Speaking the truth, whether we are talking about Jews, gentiles, or any other Christian that ever lived -- cannot be misconstrued as mistreatment.
Blessings,
William
I want to believe!
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9923 is a reply to message #9921] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 05:20 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
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Thank you William for your clarity finding the misunderstanding.
Gillyann, If you were close, as ladies I`d give you a big hug (I`m a huggy)& say I`m very sorry to have had this misunderstanding & sorry that you have been hurt. We are for Israel not against it. All the best, your sister in the Lord, Marilyn.
Marilyn C
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9924 is a reply to message #9922] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 05:30 |
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GWB
Messages: 708
Registered: March 2008
Location: Louisville, Ky area |
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I like your answer, William, but I don't like theirs.
You can't answer for them.
They said that the Jew, ALONE, killed Jesus plain and simple.
The Jew, alone, did not kill Messiah.
Kinda simple.
Either do the homework and be willing to hide Jews, or agree with Hitler.
I know that sounds theatrical. But, we are coming down to that again, politically.
I mean, really, William, this is your answer:
The Jews killed Jesus, but the Jews alone did not kill Jesus.
Huh?
Shalom,
GWB
"Be still and know that I am God."
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9926 is a reply to message #9924] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 05:50 |
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william
Messages: 1464
Registered: January 2006 |
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| GWB wrote on Sat, 05 October 2013 00:30 |
I like your answer, William, but I don't like theirs.
You can't answer for them.
They said that the Jew, ALONE, killed Jesus plain and simple.
The Jew, alone, did not kill Messiah.
Kinda simple.
Either do the homework and be willing to hide Jews, or agree with Hitler.
I know that sounds theatrical. But, we are coming down to that again, politically.
I mean, really, William, this is your answer:
The Jews killed Jesus, but the Jews alone did not kill Jesus.
Huh?
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You like my answer but then you don't?
And yes, I can answer for them, in fact my answer would be your answer as well.
Gillyann answers her own question: Did the Jews alone kill Jesus? NO. You would answer it the same way I answered it, and this will be the same way every participating member would answer it.
They aren't saying what you are implying. Marilyn clearly and specifically gave you the biblical answer that any Christian would give if they took the Bible seriously. James is going to say the same thing... Gary will say the same thing... Jman, Sue, and anyone else that has posted will give you the same answer.
If you are wanting a litmus test you should first and foremost quote specifically a person's words and then make up your test.
I'll apologize to you personally if you can quote anyone who said: (your words here: "They said that the Jew, ALONE, killed Jesus plain and simple.")
Where is it? I can't find it. If they said it -- quote it, if not then it is you that isn't being specific or clear.
Blessings,
William
I want to believe!
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9927 is a reply to message #9925] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 05:57 |
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william
Messages: 1464
Registered: January 2006 |
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| Quote:GWB |
We all love Jesus and His people.
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Yes! Thanks for answering for everyone!!
Blessings,
William
[Updated on: Sat, 05 October 2013 05:58]
I want to believe!
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9931 is a reply to message #9929] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 12:44 |
james
Messages: 2142
Registered: April 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL |
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I honestly don't have a clue Gillyann what got under your saddle, unless you're on meds and forgot to take yours. Seriously? Should I stay up all night sitting at a computer to answer your emotionally charged questions? (We went through this same demanding answers mentality concerning vitamins about a year ago, if I recall correctly.) In my first statement I said that the Roman soldiers were the ones who actually crucified JESUS(according to the Bible I use, KJV, but using that same Bible I'm told He was killed by the expressed will of the Jews...and I gave you some scriptures as references...there are many, many more...as you well know.)
If someone who was an unbeliever were to come across this thread and read this exchange, they'd have to conclude Christians were nuts! Contention should have no place among those naming The Name of Christ, and being truthful(and speaking in love) Gillyann, your comments and additude(as it comes across on the internet) are contentious...Hey! If for whatever reasoning rational you're using to determine I'm a like unto a Nazi/Hitler or anti-Jewish, and somehow you're called to point it out?????? may I suggest prayer, that usually works better than ranting and raving.
I certainly lack in areas of my spiritual walk/understanding with Jesus, but not understanding the history of Israel and how that applies to us Gentiles today isn't one of the areas. I daily pray for the nation of Israel and the peace of Jerusalem, I KNOW God's promises to that nation will be fulfilled and because of their rejection I/we have been grafted into The Kingdom of God.
btw: No Christian has ever perscuted the Jewish nation of Israel... Religious, misguided self-righteous men? Yes.... Born-again, Blood bought Christians? No.
[Updated on: Sat, 05 October 2013 12:51]
“But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us,”
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9935 is a reply to message #9799] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 23:34 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
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Hi William,
Thought you & others would be interested in this if you didn`t know it already. We know that on the Temple Mount that the first temple by Solomon was built. Then later after that had been torn down the second temple was built by Nehemiah & others. Now from scripture (Ezekiel)we are told that there will be a third temple built on this very spot, the Temple Mount. Every reference to all three temples on this site was a translation of the Greek word `Hieron.`
Any temple erected elsewhere was invariably from the Greek word `Naos.` This word is frequently rendered `Meeting place,` `dwelling,` or `Synagogue.`
Now people believe that this temple on Mount Moriah has to be built before the Lord returns because of the `abomination` in the Holy Place that the Lord & the Apostle Paul spoke of in Matt.24:15 & 2 Thess. 2:4. But that is incorrect & has caused much confusion. It is the word `Naos,` (temple elsewhere) that is used for the temple that the Anti-Christ will set up the abomination. And this temple in Jerusalem has already been built.
On August 1982 in the presence of the Prime Minister, Menachem Begin, Members of Cabinet & other notables, the Jerusalem great Synagogue was dedicated. It is situated in King George Street, & is constructed from the same local stone as was Solomon`s Temple. The central feature is a high tower containing five magnificent stained-glass windows, topped by two tablets of stone, bearing the ten Commandments.
In the interior, marble has been used extensively, especially for the Ark situated beneath the stained-glass windows. This I believe is the Holy Place which will be desecrated by the `Abomination ` referred to by Jesus.
The Temple referred to by the Apostle Paul is built!
Marilyn C
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9938 is a reply to message #9799] |
Sun, 06 October 2013 00:28 |
wishing34
Messages: 214
Registered: March 2009 |
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Fact check
Googling "naos in Bible" leads to this link:
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/naos.html
From this link many, many verses that use the word "naos" to refer to the main Jewish temple can be found.
Jman
---sig------------------------------------------------------ ------------
At the time of this post . . .
FA, the satellites, the spinoffs,and the FA diaspora have been having church
without apostles for 41 years and 278 days.
Initial start date 1/1/72
Recommended: No faith stands that strongly impact our (our children's) lives until we figure out
why the signs and wonders are missing. Something is wrong.
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| Re: The Temple Mount [message #9941 is a reply to message #9938] |
Sun, 06 October 2013 01:19 |
Marilyn Crow
Messages: 598
Registered: September 2013
Location: Australia |
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Thank you for your interest jman.
Solomon`s temple, sacred Place is referred to as `Hieron,` as in John 10: 23. `Jesus was walking in the temple (hieron)in the portico of Solomon.`
Whereas the Apostle Paul uses the Greek word `Naos,` when referring to the abomination set up in the temple at Jerusalem but not at the Mount Moriah site.
`(the anti-Christ) who opposes & exalts himself above every so called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple (Naos) of God, displaying himself as being God.`
(2 Thess. 2: 4)
Marilyn C
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