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Fast Uncompromising Discussions.Re: Printable NT Theology Notes
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Mark L2020-05-29T23:58:51-00:00Re: Printable NT Theology Notes
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Thanks for taking so much of your time and giving it to us.
Blessings,
William
]]>william2020-05-29T23:07:40-00:00Printable NT Theology Notes
http://overcomersonline.com/FUDforum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=13480&th=1320#msg_13480
Also again here is a good free word program. I use it all the time in place of MS Word
https://www.openoffice.org/download/]]>Mark L2020-05-29T16:34:11-00:00Biblical View of New Jerusalem
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5. Biblical View
Rev. 20 describes the Mill. Rev. 21-22 is the eternal state. New heavens new earth new Jerusalem all are said to be new in Rev. 21. Rev 21/5 says everything will be new. There is not any teaching like this in any of the millennial passages.
Only restoration is talked about in the mill passages. Just change and restoration with nothing new. Zech 14/4, Ezek 40-48, Is. 35 Rom. 8 Creation is restored
Since NJ is related to the new heavens and earth in Rev. 21/2 then vs 10 is speaking of the same.
If the Mill and eternal state passages are not in proper order or appear to be confused or mixed up in the OT it is because the Jew didn't speak or think logically analytically or consecutively as we do in the western world. It is that way in much of the OT.
The characteristics of the city are not Mill but eternal.
a. There is no temple in NJ but the heart of the Mill city is the temple. Ezek. 40-48
b. There is no night in NJ 22/5. The Mill is 1000 yrs long. Years imply day and night.
c. All are saved in NJ. 21/27. In the mill disobedient sinners Egypt unsaved at the end etc. Zech. 14, Is. 65
d. There is no death in NJ. 21/4. There is death in the Mill. Is. 65/20
e. they will reign forever and ever. 22/5 In the mill they will reign for 1000 yrs.
f. the throne of God and Christ are in NJ. 22/3. In the Mill only Christ's throne is there.
Characteristics of Life in the Eternal State.
a. Rev. 21/1 no more sea. Seas no separate nations so they won't war all the time
b. 21/4 no more death. Rom. 5/17 says death reigns in this life.
c. 21/4 no more sorrow crying tears pain. There will be nothing to cry about.
d. 21/25, 22/5 There is no night there. 21/23 There are many scriptures that speak of God as light. 1John 1/5 This is not created light. This is light of another order beyond our comprehension. This is spirit. 1Tim. 16/16, James 1/17 We in the NT are children of light.
Is.9/2 42/7 Matt. 4/16 speaks of spiritual darkness
2Peter 2/4, Jude 6 angels kept with chains of darkness
Prov. 4/19 Joel 2/2 John 3/19-21
e. There will be no sin there. Wherein dwelleth righteousness. Even better than the garden of Eden.
f. 22/3 no more curse
Things present in the Eternal State
a. We are eternally present with the Lord Jon 14,17/24, 1Cor. 13/12, 11Cor. 5/6-8
b. An entrance into full knowledge 1Cor. 13/12
c. An eternity of Glory 11cor. 4/17 Col/ 3/4 Rom. 8/17-18
d. an eternity of service to the Lord. We will be busy. Rev. 22/3
e. An eternity filled with joy. Rev. 21/4 fullness of joy. The true joy of the lord.]]>Mark L2020-05-29T16:29:13-00:00Various Theories of New Jerusalem
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Various Theories of New Jerusalem
1. It is a mystical city and not literal. This is the view of those who spiritualize everything else. It is based on Rev. 21/2,9-10 Since New Jerusalem (NJ) is described as the bride then it is the church it is speaking of.
But it says NJ is adorned as a bride vs 2 . also in vs 9-10 he mentions both bride and NJ
They say NJ signifies the glorified church and not a literal city. They say NJ is a heavenly city and ti will stay there.
Heb. 12/22
Answer:
The book of Zech. speaks of topographical changes to Israel to accommodate the city. Ezek 40-48 and Rev. 21 give a detailed description of the city. There is no reason for that if we aren't to take it seriously.
Rev. 22/3 The throne of God is in it. How can it be in the bride?
Rev. 21/22 There is no temple in it. No reason to say it is a mystical city.
There is not one reference to the people being the city.
Rev. 3/12 The people and the city are distinguished.
Rev. 21/2-5 Pronouns are used here to distinguish between the people and the city.
Heb. 12/22-23, 11/8-10
If the people are the city why do they reign in it or the nations enter it.
Rev. 22/5 21/24-27
2. It is not a literal city but a parable. A pictorial illustration of heaven. A city or commonwealth of good. NJ is describing the invisible spirit world. The pulpit commentary says it cannot exist according to the laws of gravity and architecture. It is describing heaven.
3.NJ is a literal city. The literal city of Zion during the millennium.
They say Rev. 21/1-8 describes the eternal state and then vs 9f goes back to the millennium.
Rev. 22/2 There are leaves for healing so it must be in the millennium because Rev.21/4 says there is no need for that in the eternal state. Ezek 47/12 speaks of a tree whose leaves are used for healing. That is during the millennium. Since Ezek is during the millennium than the tree of Rev. 22 must be the millennium too. But that doesn't have to be so.
Why does the presence of a tree in the eternal state have to be the same tree? There was a tree in the garden of Eden too. They were in the garden the millennium and the eternal state. There is no reason for it to be the same tree. It is in Rev. 2/7 as well.
They are really making an artificial distinction between Rev. 21 and Rev. 22 Rev. 20 is the Mill. Rev. 21-22 is the eternal state
They also say Rev. 21-22 (except 21/1-8) must be the millennium because of the presence of the nations 21/24, 22/2. We're told there are not any nations in the eternal state.
The reply is that Israel will be in the eternal state. Is. 66/22 A nation before God forever.
The OT does not distinguish between the Mill and the eternal state. The OT did not have all the light given in the new. In the OT there is no distinction between the mill and the eternal state. Other doctrines like 1st and 2nd advent aren't distinguished either. Is. 65/17-25 speaks of the mill. Is 66/21-24 speaks of the eternal state.
To reply to the issue of nations is all that Rev. 21/24-27 is saying is that whatever glory and light the kings and nations had in the mill they will bring into the eternal state. We shouldn't try to read too much into issues like this and make too much out of it.
4. Rev. 2/9f describes the eternal city and the eternal state of the church (or saints) which has its beginning in the mill. This view also goes from Rev. 21/1-8 being the eternal state with Rev. 1/9f going to the Mill.
When the church is joined in marriage to the bridegroom (Rev. 19) she then receives her prepared place of John 14 and never moves out of it. The church moves into the eternal state at the rapture. NJ descends from heaven and the church descends from heaven. He sees them both (the city and the bride) descending at the beginning of the mill.
In this view, the earth is not yet in its eternal state but the church is. This is a popular view of premillennialists but has problems.
a. The prophecies of the Mill OT & NT show Christ ruling from Mt. Zion on the earth not NJ. Is. 2, Zech. 14, Micah 4.
b. To follow logical sequence here the descent of NJ in the Mill is to follow the new heavens and the new earth. Followers of this view have to have 2 descents and they are in reverse order from the book of Rev. They say 21/2 speaks of the NJ at the beginning of the eternal state while 21/10 has NJ descending at the start of the Mill. We're told NJ withdraws so God can judge the earth and then comes the eternal state with new heavens and new earth.
c. NJ is suspended above the earth in the Mill then hos do the nations get up into it. They have longevity but not glorified bodies
d. We are clearly told when Jesus comes at the beginning of the Mill his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives. Zech. 14/4
]]>Mark L2020-05-28T23:30:01-00:00New heavens and New Earth
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New heavens and New Earth
This is mentioned in 4 different places in the bible
Is. 65/17
Is. 66/22
2Peter 3/10-13
Rev. 21/1
A new heaven and a new earth to be created by God. There is no scripture to suggest that New Jerusalem will float just above the earth. Rev. 21/3 Jesus will be dwelling in new J and we will be with him. 2Peter 3/13 There will be a new earth. The eternal abode of the saints will be in new Jerusalem on the earth.
]]>Mark L2020-05-25T18:51:02-00:00The Consummation of all things and the Eternal State
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The Consummation of all things and the Eternal State
After Armageddon and before the mill there is a 75 day period
Dan. 12/9-13
1260 day trib
vs 11 1290 days extra 30 days
vs 12 1335 days extra 45 days
From the middle of the trib to the very end of the trib is 3 1/2 yrs 42 mon 1260 days. To the 1290 and 1335 is 75 days. The 75 day period is not explained but some suggestions are
-the judgment of the nations
- our judgment and reward
- typographical changes in the earth Rom. 8
The fact is we aren't told everything but the 75 days are necessary. These three things have to happen and it takes time to do these things. Another thing that has to happen is the great white throne judgment. Rev. 20/ 14
The Destiny of the Wicked
- a place of eternal darkness Matt. 8/12, 25/30
- eternal death Matt. 25/41
- eternal punishment and destruction 2Thess. 1/9 Matt. 25/46
- The place of unquenchable fire Gehenna Mark 9/43f
- The lake of fire Rev. 20/14, 19/20
- a place of torment Rev. 14/9-11, with fire and brimstone
- a furnace of fire Matt. 13/42
- the second death Rev. 20/6, 14, 21/8
- abiding under the wrath of God John 3/36, Rev. 14. 10, 2/5
- It is an eternal unchangeable state. Luke 16, Rv. 22/10-12, Matt. 25/41, 46,
2Thess. 1/9, Matt9/48, Rev. 14/11, 20/10
Some believe that this place is a place of remorse where they burn with lust and desire for ever and ever. Their punishment is that they thirst for their own sins and can't have them.
Both heaven and hell are literal Matt. 25/46, Luke 16
Annihilationism
Seventh Day Adventists for eg. Sinners are annihilated at death or at judgment are cast into the lake of fire and burned up. Or cast into the lake of fire and tormented until some later date and then annihilated.
Restorationism
Ultimate reconciliation. The fire of hell will correct them and they will ultimately be reconciled to God. The devil and the demons as well. Or else God's love was a failure at the cross.
]]>Mark L2020-05-25T18:33:43-00:00Gog and Magog
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Gog and Magog
Who is Gog and Magog? Rev. 20/8 Ezek. 38-39
Rev. 20/8 shows that out of the unregenerate nations deceived by the devil at the end of the mill. will be a group called Gog and Magog. There are three views as to its meaning.
1. Gog and Magog of Ezek. 38-39 refer to the battle of Armageddon. Rev. 16,19 This view holds that Armageddon with Gog and Magog takes place at the close of the trib. and beginning of the Mill.
The biblical answer to this view.
a. The Ezek 38 battle has Gog as head of this army. At the battle of Armageddon the anti-christ is in charge. Rev. 19/19.
b. The Gog battle has definite allies named with them. At Armageddon it says all nations are there. Zech. 14/2, 12/3, Joel 3/2, Zeph. 3/8,
c. Gog comes from the north. Armageddon comes from all the earth.
d. Gog invades at a time when Israel is dwelling securely. Ezek. 38/11-16
e. Gog comes to despoil Israel. Ezek. 38/11-13. At Armageddon the emphasis is on destroying. Zech /141-3 Joel 2/3, Rev. 19/19
f. Anti-Christ is destroyed at the close of Armageddon. Gog is destroyed on the mountains of Israel
2. The Gog and Magog of Ezek 38 are the Gog and Magog of Rev. 20/8 and the battle takes place at the close of the Mill.
The biblical answer to this view.
a. Ezek states it is a northern confederacy while in Rev. 20 it is the whole earth.
b. there is no mention of the binding of Satan in Ezek.
c. The invasion of Ezek 38-39 takes place after the restoration of Israel (Ezek 37) and before the Mill (Ezek. 40-48)
d. Ezek 38 shows it takes 7 months to bury the dead etc. And much is made of that so we don't want to spiritualize it. In Rev. 20 the army is devoured by a fire from heaven.
e. Ezek Gog battle is followed by 7 yrs of cleaning up while the Rev. 20 Battle is followed by the new heavens and earth.
3. Some equate Gog and Magog (Ezek 38) with previous invasions in the past. Eg Babylon, Egypt Syria etc.
The biblical answer to this view.
This doesn't equate with what we know of the past. No invader in the past has ever been
destroyed on the mountains of Israel but in their own land and by others. Ezek. 38/8 states that the destruction of Gog & Magog will take place in the latter days.
4. The biblical view.
Rev. 20 and Ezek 38 Gog/Magog are not the same
Ezek 38/2 ASV has a better translation of these VS. It should be translated
"Gog of the land of Magog" meaning Gog is the prince and Magog is the land.
"chief prince" (chief Rosh) can be translated that way but HEF believes it should be translated "prince of Rosh"
Gog of the land of Magog prince of the land of Rosh
Vs 2
Rosh is Russia
Meshech is Moscow- represents European Russia
Tubal is Tobolsk- Asiatic Russia
vs 5
Persia is Iran
Cush is Ethiopia
Put Libya
Gomer Germany (east)
Togarmah Turkey
Ezek 38-39 show a northern confederacy with her allies and their invasion of Israel. It is not the battle of Armageddon.
Dan. 11/40, 9/27 At the time of this invasion Anti-Christ has a covenant of peace with Israel. Dan. 11/44 shows Gog invading Israel and anti-Christ defeats him.
This is not Armageddon it is the events leading up to Armageddon. The same terms are used (Gog / Magog) because the purpose of both armies is the same. That is to destroy the people of God. In Ezek it is to destroy Israel. In Rev. It is to destroy the church.
Ezek 38 occurs in the middle of Daniels 70th week. Its a time when Israel is dwelling securely in her land. Ezek 38 /10-11 In the middle of the trib.
Zech. 13/8-9 14/1-3 The Ezek 38 war cannot occur at the close of the trib because at Armageddon the city and land are destroyed. Ezek 38 has to occur at a time when Israel is at peace.
Dan.9/27 Because Anti-Christ makes a covenant with Israel at the beginning of the trib and then beaks it 1/2 way through then it is unlikely that Gog's invasion is at the beginning of the trib. Because Israel is at peace when he invades. Gog invades Israel anti-Christ destroys him and then destroys Israel himself.
When Gog invades Israel (Dan. 11/40) Anti-christ is still in covenant with Israel because he goes against Gog for invading the one he is in covenant with. Then he breaks the covenant himself in the middle of the week (Dan. 9/27) so the Gog war must be in the same time context as the breaking of the covenant. Dan. 11/36f.
- Gog invades
- destroyed by Anti-christ
- breaks the covenant
- destroys Israel himself
It is suggested by some . . .
He makes the point here that it is only a suggestion although obvious from his comments it is one he agrees with. He also makes the point shortly after that one can't get too dogmatic about end-time events as we aren't given enough info.
It is suggested by some that Rev. 7/9-14 the great multitude of Jews and gentiles is saved by seeing the destruction of Gog. Ezek. 38/23 39/22 39/21. All say it is a sign to gentiles and Jews Zech. 12/10f, 14/1f, Rom. 11
Rev. 13/7 Anti-Christ has absolute sovereignty over the earth. So Gog cannot occur at the close of trib because if he has total sovereignty then why is Gog attacking Israel. The close of the trib is when Anti-Christ is destroyed. There is no mention of the northern confederacy in the battle of Armageddon so we can assume he has already been dwelt with.
Also in Joel
2/20 the northern army
3/1-16 battle of Armageddon
3/17-21 the millennium
To sum up
Anti-Christ makes a covenant with Israel to allow here to dwell securely in her land. Ezek. 38/8,11 Dan. 9/27 To gain her natural resources Gog invades Palestine
Ezek. 38/10-13 Joel 2/1-21 Anti-Christ goes against Gog and they are destroyed on the mountains of Israel. Which just means inside Israel not big mountains. Ezek. 39/1-4
Anti-Christ breaks his covenant Dan. 11/44-45 with Israel and sets up his tabernacle there Rev. 13/7-8 Ps. 2/1-3. At this time its probably one world gov't etc. And the whole world gathers to destroy Israel and Jerusalem. Rev. 19 The nations are judged and the millennium begins. Zech. 14 Rev. 2/26-27, Rev. 19-20
]]>Mark L2020-05-23T22:40:12-00:00The Consummation of all things and the Eternal State
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The Consummation of all things and the Eternal State
There are some intervening events between the eternal state and the Mill.
The Loosing of Satan Rev. 20/1-3 7-10 Amillinnials say the little season ( vs 3) is the present church age. But vs 7 refutes it.
Question: How could Satan deceive the nations after 1000yrs of Christ's reign? A glorious time! Isn't everyone in the mill saved?
Answer: In Matt. 25 the nations are judged with the righteous nations going into the mill. Life will go on there. Houses children harvests. Natural childbirth in the mill will produce children. Life will go on. Natural children born in Adam still have to get saved.
The mill is not the final perfect state. With Satan bound sin will be held in check in the mill.
All of this is the consensus of opinion held by conservative scholars. This is the accepted position of pre-millennial scholars.
The possibility of sin breaking out in the mill is suggested in scripture and if it does it is dwelt with immediately. Is. 65/19-20, Zech. 14/16-19
During the mill Jesus reigns and rules but with a rod of iron (which speaks of authority) and not a golden scepter. Rev. 2/26-27, Luke 19/16-19 Sin is held in check by the rule of Christ as well as the presence of the righteous saints
This is shown by the fact that tares are present in the church with all the outward marks of a Christian. Satan will obtain his army at the end of the mill from the same source he does now. The unregenerate ones and some saved may apostatize just like now. ]]>Mark L2020-05-18T16:10:33-00:00The Millennium
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The Millennium
The term which doesn't occur in the bible comes from the Latin
Mille 1000 and annum year
1. It will be a time for the fulfillment of all unconditional promises and covenants made by God to Israel. Gen. 13/14-16, 15/1-21, 17/1-8, It is also on pg 142 in the deeper life book
2. It will be the time for the fulfillment of the unconditional promises made to David concerning his throne and his kingdom. 11Sam. 7, Luke 1/31-33
3. The time for the restoration of salvation to Israel. Zech.12/10f,
Rom. 11/25-29 It will begin during the trib
4. Israel's worship and temple will be restored Ezek 40-48
Description of the Millennium
1. A time of ideal conditions restored and peace will prevail. Is. 2/1-4 There will not be even the rumour of war. Is. 9/6-7, Micah 4
2. The effects of the curse will be removed from the earth Is. 11/6-9 Is. 35/7-9,
3. Sickness and disease will be removed Ezek. 47/12
4. The longevity of life Is. 65/20
5. Prosperity Is 30/23 Amos 9/13-14
6. The substitution of joy for weeping Rev. 21/4, Is. 65/18-19
7. Holiness will characterize it. Zech. 14
8. The knowledge of the Lord will fill the earth. Is. 11/9
]]>Mark L2020-05-17T19:57:04-00:00