Hi to all I'm new to this board and came across it when I was searching for the Faith Ministries site to order tapes. Since my experiences were different from most of yours, I'd like to present a different perspective. The Lord saved me when I was 22. At the time I was almost an alcoholic, or maybe I was one and just didn't realize it at the time. I was in the middle of a divorce which I did not want. I was a total mess. I had suffered years of abuse at the hands of my parents and had enough emotional problems to keep a shrink busy for a long time. And my best friend was getting heavily into the occult and except for the hand of the Lord I would have followed right along. Instead the Lord allowed things to fall apart in my life and I turned to Him. A month later some friends brought me the faith book and Why Speak in Tongues. I asked for and received the Holy Spirit and claimed restoration of my marriage. Since I was in another state many miles away from Faith Assembly there was no way to drive to the meetings so I got on the automatics. For many years I received the tapes and stayed at home listening to them. I visited Faith Assembly a few times over the years but for the most part I heard the word through the tapes. I don't understand the issues that people have with what was taught. As I heard the tapes, I went to the word and studied for myself. As I saw it in the word and applied it to my life, then change took place. And the times that I didn't want to change I was honest with the Lord and asked him to change my heart so that I would want to change in those areas. He was always faithful to do so. After reading the comments on this board and on Tom's board I have to wonder why my perception of the word is so different than theirs. Is it possible that the problems that people perceive happened because of the faith message might have been caused by some of those who heard the faith message and in their zeal, tried to make others conform to their interpretation of what it meant? I know that as I heard the word, there were times that I struggled with what I was hearing and what my flesh wanted to do. I wrestled a lot of things out before the Lord but he was always faithful to show me what I needed to do and where I needed to change. I've heard the stories about how some would hear the messages that came across the pulpit at Faith Assembly and then proceed to correct everyone who wasn't walking the way they thought they should. I know that if I had been under that kind of pressure, it would have caused me to conform but not to change. I spent some time talking with Mrs. Freeman after Br. Freeman died. One of the things that she told me was that Br. Freeman spent most of the time in his study. He had asked her to have his meals ready at a certain time so that he could come out and eat and then go back to his studies. She said that so many times when he came out to eat, he would sit down at the table and put his head down and just weep. He could not even eat. He had such a burden for the people. I don't believe that he knew that the Lord was going to call him home. But the Holy Spirit in him did. I believe there was an urgency to get the word out while there was time and that's why the messages became so intense towards the end. Another thing that Mrs. Freeman said was that people took what Br. Freeman taught and turned it into rules and laws and that he never intended that to happen. She said that an example was what he said about box cake mixes. It was a sin in the eyes of some to use a box cake mix. And yet she told me that Br. Freema's favotite cake was a lemon cake made from a box cake mix. He was trying to make a point but people turned it into a law. He taught principles from the word but some, through the hardness of their hearts, turned the principles that were intended to set us free, into laws to bring us under bondage. I just know that for me personally, the word that came through Br. Freeman changed my life. Words can't express my gratitude for the word of faith. God is so faithful.
Wow! That was an awesome testimony! Welcome to the forum. Please feel free to share more! William
Hi psalm91. I agree. That is a great testimony. There are so many people that are blaming Brother Freeman for everything that happened at the church and it is so sad. There is a nother board on the internet with a few people who are doing just that, even claiming that Br. Freeman was wrong about everything that he taught from the Bible. But you, William and I as well as a few others in this forum know otherwise. Yes, the word of God has set us free and I am thankful that God used Br. Freeman to be an instrument in doing so. It is so good to hear someone making some positive comments about a man that God has used greatly. I too can thank God for the tapes as they have been a challenge and a blessing to me as well. Here is the website where you may order tapes: http://frontpage.kconline.com/faithassembly/ You might want to know that the messages are now digitized and you may order them on CD's or MP3's. The brother who worked on them has done a great job in preserving what he calls, "the gold mine." I would love to talk to you more. Please feel free to share more comments. Or feel free to PM me as well. God bless. Mark
Ok then let me pose another question. Is it possible that those who now despise the word that came forth from Faith Assembly are the same ones who turned the message into a lot of rules and laws and also those who conformed to the rules and laws but did not allow the Holy Spirit to bring about change in their own hearts? They see it as legalism and bondage. I see it as life and liberty. Why is that? So many took what was taught and ran with it, without ever seeking the Lord about how it might apply to their lives. The other thing that I can see in the letters that have been posted is that the children have fallen away and feel like they were deprived while they were growing up at Faith Assebly. Could it be that the parents put their children under a set of rules and regulations rather than giving them the life changing word and introducing them to the Author of that Word? Did they really pray for them as they should? Did they consider that Satan is out to kill and steal and destroy and if he can get to the children then he can wipe out an entire generation of believers? As I was praying recently the Lord reminded me of my daughter's horses. They are in the pasture, fenced in and well taken care of. They are fed twice a day, they have fresh water and a huge roll of hay. They are loved. We live across a busy street from a large tract of land that is being developed. Our horses have gotten out a few times and that is where they want to go. They stand at the fence looking across the street at that land that is being cleared for houses. They long to run free over there. Their hearts yearn for it. What they don't realize is that to be free they will first have to cross the street which is dangerous in itself. But once across it they will have to fend for themselves. There are pipes and cables and bricks and heavy equipment where they are starting to build the houses. There is no grass and there are holes everywhere. So while it is in their hearts to want to be free, my daughter knows that there is danger over there and because of her love for her horses she keeps them inside the fence where they can be nourished and protected. So which is true freedom?
Quote: Ok then let me pose another question. Is it possible that those who now despise the word that came forth from Faith Assembly are the same ones who turned the message into a lot of rules and laws and also those who conformed to the rules and laws but did not allow the Holy Spirit to bring about change in their own hearts? Yes, this was one of the problems. In the Rant/Rave section there is a couple of threads dealing with stuff from the Tomax site. In the first one, Hombre gives an excellent commentary concerning faith. (It's definitely worth another look!) If the faith message is taught, as it is presented in the Bible, there will be inevitable conflicts. Think about it... let's say a pastor of any church in the land starts teaching "faith" (a worthy topic!). Faith in God for everything, for salvation, for healing, for our needs, for every aspect of our lives. Show me one church where you wouldn't have immediate problems. You will have some who will outright reject the message, you'll have some who will mix it with the world's methods, you'll have the devil's attempt to steal what is taught and you'll have those who receive it with open hearts (kinda like the parable of the sower). It is inevitable. William
I read a little of the rant and rave section. Interesting that one has a "different perspective" that is so different than my "different perspective". I guess we all have our perspectives of things. The bottom line is what will we do with the word that we've been presented? I still believe that God has His people and they will hear His voice and follow Him. And I don't say this in a critical, self righteous manner. We've all seen and heard enough of that. God is still dealing with me in a lot of areas of my life. I know that He has not finished with me. But more and more I find myself searching out the old paths. And I cling to this- II Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Yes I agree with what you've said. It really grieves me to read the things that are being said about Br. Freeman. I think those people have no concept of who he really was or what his ministry was all about. Another thing that Mrs. Freeman shared- there was a rumor going around that Br. Freeman had ordered a yellow jaguar before he died. It was one of those whisper behind your hand, I can't believe he could do anything so worldly kinds of rumors. I asked Mrs. Freeman about it and she just laughed and said in her soft southern voice , "honey don't you know that all men are just little boys at heart"? She went on to tell me that, yes, he did otder a yellow jaquar. But before it arrived he cancelled the order because he knew that it would make people stumble and that was the last thing he wanted. I thought at the time and still think that it was such a shame he never got his yellow jaguar. I know it was no big thing to him. But again, it just shows the hardness of our hearts, that we could hear the word that God intended to be liberating and turn it into a bunch of rules and laws that only bring us into bondage. And don't get me wrong, I do believe the word is true and I believe the principals are there in the word for us to obey. But I also believe that it takes a heart change to walk this walk and not just conforming to the way someone else thinks you should walk it.
I don't understand the things people are saying on here and on the other boards. I know that it was prophesied that it would happen this way but it is still a surprise to see the bitterness and resentment towards Br. Freeman. In the end all that is really going to matter is what we have done with this deeper word that we've been given. I believe we will see both the message and the messenger vindicated before it's all over.
I remember not long after the Lord saved me and I got under the faith message someone told me that it didn't make any sense to them to trust God for healing. They said they could pray for their healing for a cold and in 7 days it would be gone or they could go to the doctor and do what he said and in 7 days it would be gone so what was the point? To their way of thinking if they went to the doctor at least they were more comfortable during that 7 days. I thought at the time how untrue that was because when I pray for healing I am expecting an instant manifestation. Many times it did happen that way. But the times it didn't were times of growth. My faith was being tried and strengthened and I was totally dependent on Jesus to bring me through. He has done a work in me through the trials that I've gone through that could never have been done otherwise. So much has been said about the things that those under the faith message suffered but what about the things that we suffered at the hands of medical science. My testimony before I knew the Lord was that I had suffered many things at the hands of many physicians. What about the babies that die every day in hospitals? What about the babies that are murdered every day at the hands of medical science? We live in an area where it was discovered that doctors were doing medical experiments on terminally ill patients without their consent or knowledge or the consent or knowledge of their families. The doctors decided that they were going to die anyway so why not play like little gods before they died. If I'm not mistaken, with no anethesia. I guess my question is, what are you going to do when you have to take the mark of the beast to even get in a doctor's office? Who is going to save you then?
After posting my previous message on the message board I became concerned that it might be misunderstood. I had been reading some posts made by those who are critical of Br. Freeman and the word that came over the pulpit at Faith Assembly. My intention is not to be contentious over the word but that, if there is just one who is not convinced or is sitting on the fence concerning this end time message of faith, that they might see for themselves that God is unchanging and his word endures forever. “God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?” Numbers 23:19. God is calling all of us to choose. The time is short and just like in the parable of the virgins, tomorrow it might be too late. We are to judge all things by the Word so what exactly does God’s word say concerning these issues? Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. Matthew 25:1-13 God has given the oil for our lamps but while our Lord tarried we all slumbered and slept. God is stirring the hearts of his people once again, warning us that the time is short. For those who are still on the fence about whether this end time message truly is from God, get into the Word and see for yourselves. Br. Freeman never intended that people would look to him. He never intended that people would take his words and turn them into “the Word” and try to bind men with their interpretations of what he may or may not have meant. He presented the word to us as God gave it to him and his purpose was that we would dig into God’s word for ourselves and learn of Him. He is the “Father of lights with whom there is no variableness neither shadow of turning”. James1:17. He has called us to search His word and know Him personally. He is the one who said, “If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee” Exodus 15:26. And again, “Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name. Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits: Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases; Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies; Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's”. Psalm 103:1-5 So what do we do with this? “For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us” II Corinthians 1:20 And how can we explain this away? “And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians. And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign”. II Chronicles 16:12-14 Surely this must have been a grievous thing to the Lord that He would include this in His holy word. And how do we answer this? “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. (These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.) For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come. By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff. By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones. By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment. By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them. By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned. By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days. By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace. And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions. Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.” Hebrews 11:1-45 Does it not say that these all died in faith, not having received the promises? I haven’t seen whole message board devoted to criticizing Abraham and yet he died not yet having received the promise. Could it be that in God’s eyes He saw it as already done and Abraham received his reward because of his faith? And what are we going to do with Hebrews 11:6? “But without faith it is impossible to please God?” If you listen to the messages that Br. Freeman gave, is it possible that what you are hearing might be a sincere brother warning the people to come out from among them and be separate? To touch not the unclean thing? God always warned his people to remain a separate people. Are we going to criticize God because in the Old Testament he sent his people in to destroy nations, both young and old, man and woman, and even the poor defenseless animals? “Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass” ISamuel 15:3 and again “Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house”.Ez 9:6 And what about the New Testament? “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.” II Corinthians 6:14-18 If God has said it in his word we are to obey it. We would do well to search the scriptures concerning these things.
Hello, I joined this forum because I just really wanted someone to talk to who believed the way I do. It is a very lonely walk & has been for the last 27 years. I so much agree with psalm91 that I decided to try & overcome my timidity in writing & share a little as well. As I am in Australia, you will gather I never attended Faith Assembly. I hit a deep valley in 1980 & the Lord picked me up & has led me & fed me ever since. This journey started with a Good News Bible (horrors) & The Normal Christian Life by Watchman Nee. It was through my sister's sister-in-law, miles away, sending her a copy of The Deeper Life In The Spirit that I was baptised in the Holy Spirit. It was about two years later that I was introduced to Br Freeman's tapes. My nephew worked for a man who had come to our town & he was on the tape list. I do believe he had visited Faith Assembly. I can see God's provision all the way through. With my experience, God led me & provided wonderful teaching in many ways. How did I come to read Smith Wigglesworth, A W Tozer, Hudson Taylor, Rees Howells, & many that may not meet approval etc. I even went to the rubbish tip with my husband & looked down & found about 20 Elbert Willis tapes, which sounded very much the same as Brother Freeman's teachings. My first revelation on healing was through a book, Your Healing Is Within You by Canon Jim Glennon (not what it sounds like). It was so strong for me that I put it under the bed & didn't pick it up for about 6 weeks. It was very simple Truth. What I am trying to say is that I was so blessed to have the teaching I received from Hobart Freeman's tapes, but I wasn't exposed to the enemy's attacks to try to destroy Faith Assembly. I do want to say that my children had to walk in my spiritual revelation which made it very hard for them. They had to obey me & walk the walk without much of the Life & relationship that I was having with the Lord. I do understand where some of the younger ones are coming from. I believe I made many mistakes with my children, but they know I tried with all my heart to do the best I could to bring them up as the Lord would have me. To me, the Faith message is God's Word. Brother Freeman was just the faithful servant to whom God gave those teachings & blessed us with much Truth. It was a wonderful foundation & so were the teachings I received on all Paul's epistles when I was younger. It is a daily relationship with the Lord & He is still leading & feeding. If I have any strength, it is in talking rather than writing, so please forgive me if I am hard to understand. God bless, Sincerely
Hello Sincerely, It's good to hear from you! You write very well. You said: Quote: If I have any strength, it is in talking rather than writing, so please forgive me if I am hard to understand. Well, writing is just talk written down... plus you have a little more time to keep your foot out of your mouth!<grin> I had heard that there were a few in Austriala that were a part of the tape ministry. I think that Malcolm Webber, who later became the pastor at Faith Assembly, was from one of those groups. Apparently that occurred after we moved away in 88, so I'm not sure of the details. Quote: I hit a deep valley in 1980 & the Lord picked me up & has led me & fed me ever since. Most of us can identify with these valley experiences. Often it seems we might not make it through, but the Lord is good, He encourages us with passages like: Heb.13:5 "...I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." Thanks for overcoming your timidity! We are blessed to have you! William
Hi Sincerely It was such a blessing to see your post this morning. I've wondered just how many are out there still following this end time message of faith. God has his sheep and they will follow him. Please stay in touch!
Thank you for your warm welcome. Actually, I met Mark in Paltalk in 2002, I think it was. I remember going to the Faith Assembly room where tapes were played, but it was between 11am & 12 noon here, in Australia, which was when I have to prepare lunch. I believe we have all had a different journey & I am not sure how acceptable our stories would be to others. I shared with an old Pastor once that I had been baptized in the Holy Spirit. He wrote me a three page letter & corrected my letter like an exam paper. Now, I know I would probably have no problem here on that subject, but it is a risk we take when we share our precious experiences we have had with the Lord. As this topic is , A Different Perspective, I will try to stick to the subject & share what comes to mind. I remember the first two years after 1980, I listened to tapes by David Pawson every day. That is what the Lord fed me. After that time, I read Brother Freeman's book, Positive Thinking & Confession, & the Lord showed me from that, that filling my mind every day, had changed me from negative thinking to a much more healthy & positive thinking. So often, it is after we have been doing something that the Lord tells us what it is all about. I have read Deeper Life in the Spirit a few times, but, one time I remember it was special. I remember saying, "Lord, there's not one superfluous word in this book". It was like the Lord had quickened the whole book to me. When my children were sick, we would pray & then I would give them my walkman with Steve Hill's singing tape to go to sleep with. My nephew shared that with Steve when he was in Australia one time. One thing that Brother Freeman said, I believe was, that you can only die, believing. All that can happen to you believing is that you can die (& go to be with the Lord!!). It is something not all of us have had to face, but probably most have us have weighed up. He certainly walked what he preached. We all have to go through processes when something happens like that. I have been shattered a few times over the years, but it doesn't change who God is or His Word. He is still Pure, Holy, Just, Truth, Love, Perfect, a Consuming Fire. I think I can remember thinking when Brother Freeman died, 'That could have been me.' I would have had to make those same choices. I hope to hear how the Lord has worked in other's lives over the years & I do pray that many hurting, wounded people will find healing & release to be all that the Lord made them to be. That is a promise God has given to me for my family - & His family is my family. That is what I believe He said to me. God bless, Sincerely
Hello again in Jesus' Name, Since I posted the first time, my mind has been filled with many of the things that have happened over the past 27 years & even before. Sometimes, bringing thoughts into captivity is easier said than done. I learnt a big lesson years ago. I went to our corner shop (little convenience store) with my daughter who was about three at the time. She was putting on a turn & I said to the lady, "She's been sick." The lady just replied, "That's no excuse." I walked out of there thinking, "I will never go back to that shop again." As usual, the Lord worked in me & I saw I was learning a very great lesson & I have had to apply it to myself many times since. There is a reason, whether right or wrong, why we become bitter & resentful & act the way we do, but it's no excuse. Do we think the Lord will say, "I understand why you feel the way you do. Well done, good & faithful servant. Enter into the Joy of the lord". Probably, ten years ago, the Lord led me to learn Hebrews 12 (& 13) off by heart, the only chapters I have ever memorized as a whole & it has been there for me over & over again. I have not yet resisted to bloodshed striving against sin. I have to be chastened & not be discouraged or despise it. I have to watch those roots of bitterness & more. It was easier for me to stay focussed on the Lord when I needed Him to survive mentally & emotionally, than when the pressure is eased. The Lord has blessed me through the trials & tribulations by showing me I am nothing. I have no confidence in the flesh. If Christ is not my Life, then I have no Life. I have much yet to learn. I have often thought, "Lord, I would rather overcome here willingly, than to be in China where the saints overcome in persecution & horrible circumstances". I really appreciate my bed & the roof over my head, the food, our car, the computer, the freedom (that is soon coming to an end). I thank God for His goodness & love & mercy. And yet, I still fail every day. My heart's desire is to be all that God made me to be & all that Jesus died for me to be. Sorry to be so long-winded. I pray these thoughts can be received as they are written, with love & be an encouragement to others in Jesus' Name.
Hello Hombre & all, I just read your post & thank you for your thoughts. Over the years, I have found I learn much from other people's experiences & am greatly encouraged by many of them. I have read, "Appointment in Jerusalem", the story of Lydia Prince, a few times & it has blessed me every time, enough to encourage me in my pressing in to the Lord. Years ago, I read a number of Corrie ten Boom's books which also blessed me greatly to be an overcomer. I said to the Lord one day, "Lord! It's just as if I knew her." I heard the Lord say, " You could know me, too, if you read My Book." I was reading the Bible. That's not what He meant. Yes, there are many experiences I wouldn't share but if I can encourage anyone to taste & see that the Lord is good, I will try to do so. Actually, I think I have been shot & beaten over the head with big guns. God bless, Sincerely
Hi to all What you are sharing is really blessing me. I think if we could really understand Romans 8:28- 39 we would realize that God has it all under control. The things that seem so grievous to our spirits are the very things that he is using to try us and prove us and change us into his image. The trials are not meant to destroy us but to perfect us. Just like the rose bush can only continue to bear beautiful roses if it is pruned and fertilized and the dead wood is removed, so we can only bear fruit if the things that are hindering our growth and are displeasing to the Lord are removed. Fire will burn up a forest but sometimes that's necessary in order to remove the debris that is preventing the tender new growth from springing forth. "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." James 1:17 "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who [is] he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:28-39
In for a penny, in for a pound. You never know, the door may close & I may not get the chance to write any more. I have to laugh. I read IMO & thought it must mean "I make out" or I figure. I thought I had better google it & found out it is short for "In my opinion" duh!!! Not too far off the meaning, anyway. What I am probably doing is trying to join in the topics in a roundabout way; by telling my experiences with certain beliefs, rather than what I believe. Something I have on my mind happened 33 years ago. I gave birth to a little boy who had to have an operation on the day he was born. I had to stay in hospital 150 miles away for part of the next 22 days & only got to see him again once. The baby ward he was in got gastro-enteritis & some of the weaker babies died, including my son. (1973) Last year, my husband was watching the News when I overheard something like 18000 people die every year in Australia through medical mishaps. Now, we have a population of just over 20 million people. I wondered if I heard correctly & googled it &, sure enough, there it was, adding that another 50000 patients are injured, as well. When you've lost a child as I did, it alters your perspective regarding whether to put your trust in the Lord. You are well-aware babies are dying every day. Just to add to this story, the Lord was bringing me to the place of giving everything to Him. The last thing He asked me for were my two girls, born after my son. I said to Him, "You'll only take one if I give them to you." ( Sorry, but I may seem a bit lacking to you in my conversations with the Lord.) He said back, "You could lose one & you hadn't given them to Me." That was the turning point. I told you it has been a lonely walk. Whose turn to write, now? God bless, Sincerely
Losing a baby is especially tough. It certainly takes the grace of God to be able to carry on after experiencing that kind of trauma. It is in those times the verse that Psalm91 shared (Rm 8:28) becomes the more poignant in our lives. It gives us hope when all else seems hopeless! Blessings, William
G'day Mr William, I was just using my experience because this forum is called "A Different Perspective." Hope people can understand where I am coming from. My sister has to interpret to my brother what I am really saying. I have been on the other side of what has been a great accusation against the Faith message. I told you I am not a good writer. God bless, Sincerely
I'm glad to see the softer side of Hombre. I had to keep reminding myself to "be not afraid of their faces" when he mentioned pulling out the big guns.
Good Morning all, It is Saturday over here. Could someone please tell me if what I am writing is being understood the way I mean it to be? When I wrote about my son, I was really saying my baby died WITH medical treatment. I hadn't heard the faith message at that stage. I wrote in regard to some of the conflict FA had. I have walked in both camps & all that the Lord has done is to bring me to the place that I know that I know that I know Jesus paid the full price for our healing. Steve Hill's tape comes to mind. Come let us look at Christ on the Cross. How many times have I meditated on, & the healing you don't claim means He hung there in vain. I have walked out many things & am still waiting for the manifestation of things people think I am crazy for. One daughter was healed of acute appendicitis & the other of chronic appendicitis. Do I have medical proof? No, but I believe the Lord showed me what it was. No matter what my experience, God's Word is Truth. By the way, Mr Hombre, putting on a turn means, doing your nana, lol, maybe ranting & raving, nearly a temper-tantrum to get your own way, as a child can do in a lolly (candy) shop. I love the Australian language.
RE big guns. Having been corrected by people who belonged in some way with Faith Assembly, I believe people don't want to put themselves in the position of being shot down again. It seemed as if, every time I opened my mouth or wrote, people would have to correct what I just said. This happened by one or two on Paltalk & here, in Australia by the few I came in contact with. When I first met the man who supplied my tapes, we said, "How do you do" & he said, "You need to be saved." I said I was saved, so he said, "Well, you need to be baptized in the Holy Spirit." I said I already was. That is just how I was being treated, as if I wasn't up to scratch. (Is that another Australian term?) I would go to visit my family, who were involved with the Brisbane fellowship. I could take the little corrections, but my daughters used to dread seeing them. It was like they weren't meeting certain levels. If they had anyone to criticize, it should have been me, as I was in charge of their ways. plus their father was in charge & he doesn't know God. Mr Hombre, I believe you are talking about the infallible Word of God & I agree with that, but may people not be a stumbling block to others by crippling what little faith someone has. My family crumbled in their walk & I am believing for their restoration. They helped me through so many trials & prayed me through so much trouble. People aren't our enemy. Maybe, if I had to walk where they had to walk, I could have fallen in a greater measure.
When my girls were at school, they were swimmers. Most swimmers lose their appendix because of the training. The older daughter walked home from school delirious & in pain & we faced the trial. She was healed & we didn't have to face it again. Does this make it any clearer, as I am not free to write the whole story? The other daughter had lesser trials but recurring. Then, it was over.
Hi all I understand totally where you are coming from Sincerely. When the Lord saved me I was involved in deep sin. I didn’t have a fairy tale, Sunday school unbringing. I walked in sin for quite some time after salvation, not knowing the truth. I had no understanding of things that should have been so elementary to a Christian. God did not reject me like so many would have. He saw my heart and my desire to walk in truth. This sounds so shallow even in the telling but this was where I was at the time. I know that if I had been a part of Faith Assembly at the time I would not have survived. Not because of the word that was coming forth because that was like water being poured onto a dry and thirsty plant, but because of the ones who received the word and then set about to correct everyone else and make them conform to their ideas about what the word meant or what Br. Freeman meant. I know the Lord, in his great love and mercy, allowed me to remain at home where I could hear the word and seek his face about how he wanted me to walk things out. Amazingly, he always confirmed the truth to my heart and as it became a part of me, he began to set me free from those things that were displeasing to him. I can remember times when I would just fall on my face before the Lord crying out for grace and mercy because I wanted so much to walk in truth but I was such a total mess that it seemed like it wasn’t even a possibility. I also remember crying out to him to change my heart because I didn’t want to change in some areas. But there was such a desire to be in fellowship with him. He was my all. He literally was my Father and so gently taught me and fed me and changed me. I can’t explain why God would choose someone like me unless it is because of I Corinthians 1:27-29- “But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence” Sometimes now, I have to remind myself of God’s mercy to me and that I should show that same mercy to others. Not meaning that it is ok to remain in sin. But it took years for the Lord to set me free and I have no right to judge the work that he is doing in a brother or sister who is sincerely desiring to walk in truth. If we could only learn to pray for one another rather than judging one another.
Has anyone read the book The Torn Veil. It's the story of a Muslim girl who learned of Jesus in the Quran. As her hunger to know him grew he revealed himself to her, healed her, saved her and sent her to tell her family about him. It's an amazing testimony.
I wanted to add a little to what I wrote earlier. I visited Faith Assembly several times in the years before Br. Freeman went to be with the Lord. I loved visiting there. I still have good friends that I met at Faith Assembly and they have always been a blessing and an encouragement to me. The ones that I am talking about are the ones who always felt the need to go around and correct everyone. They never took the time to get the word down into their own hearts because they were too busy making sure everyone else was walking it. I believe those are the ones who are so critical of Br. Freeman and Faith Ministries now. The Lord knew when he saved me what a mess I was. I needed so much deliverance that it took years for the Lord to set me free. I liken it to peeling layers of skin from an onion. There are so many layers before you finally reach the heart of the onion. Some are thin and some are thick. The sin in my life came off in layers. As the Lord delivered me from one area, then I had the understanding to go a little deeper so he could begin to set me free from the next. Br. Freeman was the vessel that God used in my life to set me free and I am very thankful for the man and his message. And for the ones that he brought into my life at Faith Assembly. Years after Br. Freeman died I had the opportunity to be a part of a faith body. It was a real eye opener. I experienced much criticism, much gossip and much discouragement. But at that point in my walk I didn't fall apart under the pressure. I wanted to make sure that it was understood that I am not criticizing Faith Assembly or Br. Freeman. But there definitely was a problem with hardness in the hearts of some of the people.
Thank you for your reply, Mr Hombre. Sorry if my remark on guns set off a big discussion. I really knew what you were saying in the first place. I was 33 when the Lord brought me to Him in a much different way than before. For the next 7 years, I shared about the Lord wherever I went. Each day, He would send at least one person to say something to. He showed me that everyone had potential & not to be a respecter of persons. On my 40th birthday, I went to see my oldest brother about something & he gave me a real dressing down ( not realizing it was my birthday). He said, what I had done over the years, was to come & give him a lecture & it was like beating him over the head with a hammer. By the way, my brother is a Christian. I had to go to work that day & serve customers & the tears flowed all the day. I went to the Lord with the accusations & He took me through much of it over the next few weeks. God did send me to my brother, God did give me the words to share, God did give me the time to spare to do so. To me, my motive was a heart's desire to share with him all that the Lord had blessed me with & see him have the same blessing & revelation. By the way, this brother sent me a bunch of flowers when he realized what day it was. After that day, I was aware that there was no opening to talk to anyone any more. One day, the door opened & I was talking to someone about the Lord, when it dawned on me. I said, "You are the first person I have been able to share with in seven years." That is, apart from my daughters & some of my family. I really do believe the Lord had guided me in the first seven years, but there has been much breaking since then. The Word hasn't changed, but I have in my sharing of it. I have been going to a Nursing Home on Saturday afternoons for about ten years. You have to love these people first before their hearts are opened to receive Christ as their Lord & Saviour. Without love, I become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. I love my brother. I only wanted the best for him, but I was so confident I had something he didn't have that my message came over as hard & sharp & critical. Please believe me, I am not trying to get anything off my chest, nor make comments based on any other posting. I am just asking the Lord what He wants me to write & trying to hear Him clearly. By the way, where did Mr William disappear to. God bless, Sincerely
I do hope I haven't chased everyone away. For years now, in my morning prayer time, I have been writing what I believe the Holy Spirit is directing me to pray & then, what I believe the Lord is saying to me. When I first started, I thought I was making it up, but every day it was confirmed to me by hearing or reading the same message or phrase or word somewhere else. For a long time, the Lord would tell me each morning that He loved me, & I would think or say, "I know that." Sometimes, I even thought is that all I will get to hear, you know, sort of boring to write. However, the time came when it sank from my head to my heart. I believe the Lord said to me this morning, "My Word is Living & not law. Make it law & there is no Life." I can imagine everyone reading this & thinking we all know that. I really didn't know my knowledge of God's love was head & not heart knowledge. God truly wants a personal relationship with us.
I am very interested in Israel & receive emails keeping me up to date with some of what is happening there. This was one of the emails, There is this beautiful man living out in the area where David slew Goliath, here in Israel. He was telling me recently that he was baptised in the Holy Spirit shortly after the Azusa St. revival (to give you an idea of his age). He says that in his day it was considered a sin and a lack of faith to even consider health insurance. If anyone got sick they got dressed and went to the elders of the church, not to the doctor. And he said God so honoured their faith in the Lord that He healed every kind of sickness without any doctor intervention. Art says that most Christians today have lost sight of this reality, and immediately think about drugs and doctors when their body starts feeling irregular. We need to get back to truly trusting the Lord before all other avenues are considered. Instead of making Him our last resort. MAY YESHUA BE OUR FIRST AND TRUSTED REFUGE.
Yes, Mr Hombre. It is all about Knowing Him. I wrote this a few days ago. It has been a blessing for me to have someone to talk to, but I seem to be the one doing the talking. A Pastor's wife has met with me for prayer for our families for a few years, but has recently left our town. You get a bit bottled up inside if there is no outlet. I do share the Gospel & I talk to other Christians. It is amazing how the Lord opens the door to share with people when shopping. I have seen the Lord touch quite a few in the Nursing Home I visit & save them not long before their time is up. My mother-in-law received Christ just before she was 98 & went to be with Him at 98 1/2. My Mum was meek & gentle. I am a bit short in that area, yet. My siblings were born before the War & I was born just after it. I had to be loud & persistent to try to get a look-in. Had no boundaries & my discipline mainly came from my big brothers bullying me, but I can't remember a time when I wasn't aware of God. I remember telling the Lord at Sunday School, "Oh Lord! I would have put my face in the water to drink & been disqualified. Please don't let me miss out because I don't know any better." Now, I keep telling the Lord, "Please keep working on me that I have Oil in my lamp & extra Oil." I believe the Lord said to me that if the only thing He asks me to do is to see my husband saved, then that is as much to Him as someone who has a mighty ministry, & do you know what? That is where I have my greatest tests. When there was great pressure, I wasn't out of order very much, but given a bit of rope, I find it so easy to react. It is relatively easy to be sweet everywhere else. Back in the eighties, I said to the Lord, "Why do you use my husband in all my trials? It hurts our marriage." I was washing a few days later & had my tape recorder going over the noise of the old wringer washing machine to listen to a sermon. I lived next door to a manse & was friends with the Pastor's family. Their little girl came over & said her father asked would I turn off the tape as her mother was trying to sleep. This was about 9.30am. I was upset at the Pastor's behaviour as a neighbour already, so this upset me more than it should. I fought to get the right attitude for about a week. Once I had succeeded, the wife came over & told me she had been up that night with a son who wasn't sleeping. If only they had told me that in the first place. Anyway, the lord then showed me that is why He uses my husband. I have to get over it immediately whereas towards an outsider, it took a week. This is where the rubber meets the road. If I can't overcome here, how can I be God's ambassador that He tells me I am. Praise the Lord. My faith is in Jesus. I will be all He made me to be. God bless, Sincerely
Greetings in Jesus' Name, First, terribly sorry if I have upset the flow of this forum. I was only trying to share with people who had much the same beliefs as mine. I really was stumped as how to answer the last posting. I didn't know exactly what was being meant. My stories have been about the beginning of my journey, around 1980. I don't think it is true that I become irritated when I don't understand why. I ask the Lord a lot of questions & He answers me. He also shows me a lot of things that I don't ask Him. I talk to Him most of the day. However, I have a way to go in regard to not reacting. It is so easy to say hand it all over to the Lord. You can do that in choice, but things build up without one knowing it. I know some of the triggers but they change a bit all the time. When there was fear, it rarely happened. As for walking away, which you mentioned in a different aspect, that is not possible. I don't relive episodes, but I do get very wounded sometimes. What the Lord doesn't want me to do is put up little walls & live in my own little world. The Lord is my best Friend & He keeps my head above water. I remind myself that life is not very hard, really. I am very blessed. It is such a privilege to have been led & fed by the Lord all these years & I wouldn't have the relationship I have with Him if I hadn't needed Him. Years ago, a Christian lady, who is now 102, was so worried about her washing machine getting blocked. I thought, if that is all she has to worry about.... Then, the Lord showed me this lady looking at my troubles & that she could probably say the same about me. All of these little stories are how the Lord had to grow me up. It isn't about what people did to me or how the "church" let me down. It is about me being all that God made me to be. I started re-reading A W Tozer's book, "The Pursuit of God", this morning. I hope I am not out of place sharing a bit I read that stood out to me, here. "Sound Bible exposition in an imperative must in the church of the living God. Without it no church can be a New Testament church in any strict meaning of that term. But exposition may be carried on in such a way as to leave the hearers devoid of any true spiritual nourishment whatever. For it is not mere words that nourish the soul, but God Himself, & unless & until the hearers find God in personal experience they are not the better for having heard the Truth. The Bible is not an end in itself, but a means to bring men to an intimate & satisfying knowledge of God, that they may enter into Him, that they may delight in His Presence, may taste & know the inner sweetness of the very God Himself in the core & centre of their hearts." Do hope the forum runs smoothly again. God bless, Sincerely
Hey, you haven't "upset" anything! Like Hombre said, we all have jobs and things that need a'doing. Sometimes I'll get an inspiration and post on something that I've been studying or thinking about, and then maybe nobody is on the same wave-length and I don't get a response -- the same holds true for everyone. The next time someone posts, it may hit us all squarely between the eyes and we squawk and squeal until we get it all out of our system, that’s just the nature of things. Quote: I really was stumped as how to answer the last posting. I didn't know exactly what was being meant. I wouldn't worry too much about it... Hombre stumps us all at times --much learning doth maketh him mad. <grin> Now if I were the worrying type, I'd be worrying about Uncle Bob. I hope he is well. Blessings! William
Thank you for your reply, Mr William. I smile when I see your photo. You look like a kindly gentleman with a fine sense of humour. I don't get to laugh much, so it's nice that something makes me smile. I am so looking forward to the promise God gave me of the release of all my family to be whom He made us to be & He said His family is my family & mine is His, especially His chosen race. May we continue to pray for them. God bless, SIncerely
Psalm91 (my favorite psalm btw) Thanks for the update and sharing. I always wondered what Mrs. Freeman thought or did. Many a minister can be brought back to earth by looking at their home environment. Like Billy Graham, he'd constantly ask his wife (Ruth?) where his socks where. Or her answer when asked about divorcing him. "Divorce, no. Murder, yes". I heard she left his suit at the end of the bed after he passed away waiting for his return. I too, took the cake mix as gospel. Now granted this was wrong, I have to say this, I never heard a rebuttal from Bro. Freeman about this, maybe I missed it, or they never came out on tape, but that might have helped avoid a lot of the legalism that was going on. Nevertheless, the man, was true to his word and I too am glad and changed from sitting under his ministry. It will be nice in heaven to one day sit down and have a heart to heart talk to clear the air eh?
I'd like to put a plug in for my wife's testimony of deliverance from depression: www.digitalsmiles.ca God is still in the healing and deliverance business! Andrew Wommac was influencial in his teachings.
Hi Tomax About why Br. Freeman never rebutted the many misconceptions that people had- I think that he did in many of his messages. We were just too hard hearted to realize that he was speaking to us. Maybe he thought we were more mature than we were. And maybe he really didn't realize all of the issues that were going on in the body. If he spent as much time in prayer and the word as Mrs. Freeman said he did, he would not have had much time to go around checking up on everyone and making sure that everyone usderstood what he meant by what he said. I think Br. Freeman's main objective was to get the word out. The rest he left up to the Lord. It could seem overwhelming to try to deal individually with 2000 people. So what was he supposed to do, lock the doors so no one else could come in? I believe that God was trying our hearts to see if we were really hearing what the Spirit was saying to the church. I think maybe even now we take this too lightly. God is still looking for a people who will wholly follow him.
Hello all. For some reason, I have never read this particular thread. I use to receive emails when someone posted. That was nice, because I travel a lot, and I was always able to read them on my Blackberry (except for Hombre's posts which ate up all my memory!) I recently got a new car with an MP3 player. I have been borrowing Biblical Theology from my mother and listening to them on the way back and forth to work. As best I can tell, these were done in the mid-70s (a couple of years before my family moved to FA). I agree with some of the comments that PS 91 has stated about the difference between listening on tape (or cd) vs. being there in person every week. The theology that is preached is so clearly presented, based upon the Word of God, that it is quite simple to understand (btw - I have always agreed with Dr. Freeman's interpretation of Biblical Theology.) For some reason (maybe spirit immaturity), when you introduce people (i.e. many of the members of FA) to the equation, their flesh began to get in the way. Unwritten rules began to spring up, and everyone was concerned about their neighbor's business. These messages have been quite eye-opening, because Dr. Freeman comes across quite human (unlike what many try to make him out to be). He references Billy Graham (something that surprised me), and also makes several references to watching things on TV, like the 700 club, TV commercials, etc. Something that is also pretty cool is that you can hear the congregation's reactions to many things he says (something you don't hear too often when listening to today's preachers.) There was such excitement and energy in those early days. For example, he would make a statement like, "Tonight, we are going to look at the doctrine of Atonement." You could then hear the congregation almost cheer like they were at a football game. People were so excited about God's Word. I wish there was more of that today. I've rambled on for awhile, so I will let someone else write for a change. Have a great day! Duncan
Hi all You're correct about the excitement that you could hear at Faith Assembly. People were excited about the word that was coming forth. And with good reason. It was a liberating word. How soon we forgot what we had and all that God had delivered us from. Just like the Israelites wandering in the desert. God had delivered them out of Egypt by His mighty hand. And yet they weren't trusting enough to believe that He would lead them into the promised land. They longed to go back to Egypt and it's bondage. That has been the stragest thing I believe I have ever witnessed. God gave us a pure word, a word of faith and holiness, a word that would heal us, deliver us, save us and provide for our every need. But what have we done with it? How many went running back to Egypt in the years since Br. Freeman died. Did we have our eyes on a man and so, were disillusioned when that man was removed from the scene? God will hold us accountable for what we have done with that word. One of the first things the Lord ever spoke to me when He saved me was that I could choose to trust Him to purify me now through the trials that I face day to day or I could choose to be purified by the fires of judgement that are to fall, but before I enter into His presence, I will be purified. That motivated me to get into the word and find out how to overcome now. When I heard the word that Br. Freeman was preaching it only confirmed what the Lord had already spoken to my heart. We are all facing choices still today. God is not slack concerning His promises. He will do as He said. That includes His promises to heal us and bless us and deliver us. That includes His promises of end time ministry and anointing. And that includes His promises of judgement. I believe there is once again a stirring in the hearts of God's people. God has not forgotten us. He always keeps a remnant for Himself and He is calling us back to the old paths. He said, "if My people, who are called by My Name, will humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land." 2 Chronicles 7:14 Recently the Lord spoke to me about this end time message of faith. He said that we better make the needed changes now while there is still time. He said that He will have a people that He will use and to not think that just because we have heard this word it will be us. Nowhere is it written that God has to use us. If we don't make changes where they are needed now He will pass us by and raise up another. But He will have His people in the last days who will wholly follow Him.