Interesting video. http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1766638341
Thanks for posting the video Michael. The media and dnc will have a field day with this if they get a hold of it.
... and baptized in Jesus' Name! Wow! Blessings, William
...And raising her hands in worship...double WOW !
Interesting what she spoke of concerning Alaska, and the role they will play in energy production and supply. She knew there was "something going on" in Alaska, but she didn't know the part she would play, by the Grace and Appointment of God. My first thought when I heard her acceptance speeh at the RNC was that God had placed her there, and this was before I knew she was a Christian. to hear that she is a Spirit-filled Christian, baptized and professing Christ openly is a great encouragement to me, and to many others. God is raising up His people to do great things, and to have great influence. I heard Laura Ingraham today speaking about the example she has set in keeping their Downs-Syndrome baby, and in the support of the entire family for their daughter, in spite of the out-of-wedlock pregnancy, and how many women and girls may have been affected by this example, and how many lives this might have saved, babies that will not be aborted, that even if she doesn't become Vice-President, her example has made a huge difference in the lives of women and families all over this nation, and possibly around the world. I am following the campaign even more closely, now that I know this. Thanks for the link! NBF
Hombre. How come we can never get a clear definitive post of how you really feel about things?
I was just writting out some sympathy cards to send to the tobacco companies, man I really feel their pain... I think the new administration( whomever God selects ), should send tax rebates out to the tobacco companies and consider removing the environmental restrainments that have been placed upon them, due to the public whining about their health. Why should people's health get in the way of profits? question: seeings how I'm of this opinion, does this make me a democrat or a republician, or a card carrying communist? Can I be a christian and not care? Can I trust Jesus to know what He's doing? Could Sarah Palin be the Deborah of the 21 st. century? I know of people who said Hilary was... If I owned stock in a tobacco company, would I still feel this way? Would I have the courage to value people's lives over my own desire for increased profits as a shareholder? Why would someone raise questions when they already know the answers?
[quote title=Hombre wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 16:30][quote BTW: How many people have you hugged today? [/quote] When and where does it say were supposed to hug people. Your trying to get me arrested for assault arent you?
Hombre and anyone else who wants to chime in... I want to say first off that I am very much a Republican and very much conservative. I have a question though because I have heard this said before. When it comes to abortion, or homosexuality, etc., do you believe that you can be a Christian and a liberal Democrat by simply saying that you are not going to judge people and that everyone can choose what they want? That is the only reason I can think of that Obama and many other Democrats who are so called "religious" or "Christian" can justify being for those things. One would think that their personal beliefs would be against such things which the Bible says are an abomination. If you really wanted to win people over, why wouldn't you say that you didn't agree with it and thought it was wrong but that you are not here to judge, etc...? Does that excuse even work or have any merit? I guess I don't understand how someone can claim to be a Christian and still be for things that are clearly against your religion. Do people actually fall for it when they say they are Christian?
jewelsboye wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 03:01 Hombre and anyone else who wants to chime in... I want to say first off that I am very much a Republican and very much conservative. I have a question though because I have heard this said before. When it comes to abortion, or homosexuality, etc., do you believe that you can be a Christian and a liberal Democrat by simply saying that you are not going to judge people and that everyone can choose what they want? That is the only reason I can think of that Obama and many other Democrats who are so called "religious" or "Christian" can justify being for those things. One would think that their personal beliefs would be against such things which the Bible says are an abomination. If you really wanted to win people over, why wouldn't you say that you didn't agree with it and thought it was wrong but that you are not here to judge, etc...? Does that excuse even work or have any merit? I guess I don't understand how someone can claim to be a Christian and still be for things that are clearly against your religion. Do people actually fall for it when they say they are Christian? I too am Republican and Conservative. Your question is a good one. What I believe is that in this day and age, where even the Church is taught to "go along to get along", those who take a stand will pay a price for that stand, and will come under fire even from professing Christians. The principle of "Is this the hill I want to die on?" must be balanced with "he who confesses Me before men, I will confess before My Father." I always think of the proverb, "A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in frames of silver". In all things, we must be led by the Spirit, but we cannot use that as an excuse to say "I didn't feel the spirit leading me to say anything". With regard to Sarah Palin, at some point, her faith will be made an issue, because the Liberal Democrat Left cannot stand anyone who professes Christ, and who professes biblical morality and standards. I don't believe it is "optional" to take a stand on abortion, but Sarah has lived out her stand, in not even considering aborting their downs-syndrome baby, and in making it plain to their daughter, Bristol, that abortion is not an option, even when a baby is conceived in sin. It comes down to this: Sarah and Todd Palin have not just talked the talk, they have walked the walk where this issue is concerned, and that's what is driving the Leftists crazy. Sarah Palin has lived out what the Feminists "claimed" they wanted for every woman, but she did it walking out her faith, and not conforming to their political views, and they cannot accept that. Sarah, didn't talk and talk about her stand, she just did it. That is the Christian way. Don't talk about it, blowing a trumpet and calling attention to yourself for being so "good" and "pure" and "righteous" in your choices, just do it, and be ready to give answer to those who ask. Live your life in such a way that what people see is Christ in you. Pharisees talk about what they are doing, calling attention to how wonderful they are. True Christians just do it.
I thought this devotional from Spurgeon`s site was appropriate for this discussion. "In the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world." -- Philippians 2:15 We use lights to make manifest. A Christian man should so shine in his life, that a person could not live with him a week without knowing the gospel. His conversation should be such that all who are about him should clearly perceive whose he is, and whom he serves; and should see the image of Jesus reflected in his daily actions. Lights are intended for guidance. We are to help those around us who are in the dark. We are to hold forth to them the Word of life. We are to point sinners to the Saviour, and the weary to a divine resting-place. Men sometimes read their Bibles, and fail to understand them; we should be ready, like Philip, to instruct the inquirer in the meaning of God's Word, the way of salvation, and the life of godliness. Lights are also used for warning. On our rocks and shoals a light-house is sure to be erected. Christian men should know that there are many false lights shown everywhere in the world, and therefore the right light is needed. The wreckers of Satan are always abroad, tempting the ungodly to sin under the name of pleasure; they hoist the wrong light, be it ours to put up the true light upon every dangerous rock, to point out every sin, and tell what it leads to, that so we may be clear of the blood of all men, shining as lights in the world. Lights also have a very cheering influence, and so have Christians. A Christian ought to be a comforter, with kind words on his lips, and sympathy in his heart; he should carry sunshine wherever he goes, and diffuse happiness around him.
grandom wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 11:04 I thought this devotional from Spurgeon`s site was appropriate for this discussion. "In the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world." -- Philippians 2:15 We use lights to make manifest. A Christian man should so shine in his life, that a person could not live with him a week without knowing the gospel. His conversation should be such that all who are about him should clearly perceive whose he is, and whom he serves; and should see the image of Jesus reflected in his daily actions. Lights are intended for guidance. We are to help those around us who are in the dark. We are to hold forth to them the Word of life. We are to point sinners to the Saviour, and the weary to a divine resting-place. Men sometimes read their Bibles, and fail to understand them; we should be ready, like Philip, to instruct the inquirer in the meaning of God's Word, the way of salvation, and the life of godliness. Lights are also used for warning. On our rocks and shoals a light-house is sure to be erected. Christian men should know that there are many false lights shown everywhere in the world, and therefore the right light is needed. The wreckers of Satan are always abroad, tempting the ungodly to sin under the name of pleasure; they hoist the wrong light, be it ours to put up the true light upon every dangerous rock, to point out every sin, and tell what it leads to, that so we may be clear of the blood of all men, shining as lights in the world. Lights also have a very cheering influence, and so have Christians. A Christian ought to be a comforter, with kind words on his lips, and sympathy in his heart; he should carry sunshine wherever he goes, and diffuse happiness around him. Great quote from Spurgeon, the "prince of preachers"!
Hombre wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 11:54 NBF56 wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 09:42 ...The principle of "Is this the hill I want to die on?" must be balanced with "he who confesses Me before men, I will confess before My Father. ...you mean balancing what we want for ourselves vs. what God may want from us at any particular moment in time. The death to self. I can't say that I have been in a lot of situations where death was an alternative to keeping my peace, but we can remember that God IS sovereign...and that Jesus Himself, though many wanted to shove Him off a cliff at one point, was not pushed, but rather walked right back through the middle of them, unmolested and undetected. If we are IN God, and walk IN him, then His will be done, and fear or selfishness is no longer an obstacle. ..yes, I know..easier said than done, but I think that's the way it works. The "hill to die on", was meant figuratively. We all waste our time on things that aren't that important. That's the meaning of the saying, that we should pick and choose which battles we engage in, and which we let go because they are not that important. Now, before someone goes off accusing me of saying that I don't think we should always witness to folks, I believe there is a time and a place for everything. A wise man once said, "Preach the Gospel. Use words if necessary". Our lives should be such a witness, that we don't have to buttonhole people to tell them of God's Christ, they should be buttonholing us, asking, "What is it about you? Why are you so joyful?"
Hombre, Forgive me for being naive... but what is IMO???
jewelsboye wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 10:31 Hombre, Forgive me for being naive... but what is IMO??? In my opinion... most of us use IMHO to highlight our humility! Blessings, William
Hombre, I love reading what you sometimes put in parenthesis down at the bottom of the post. It's like the prize in a cracker jack box almost. You're never sure what you'll get but it usually makes a person smile.
Hombre wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 17:51 grandom wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 17:13 When and where does it say were supposed to hug people.? ..those are just unwritten rules which if not in the Bible ought to be. I learned that from Jis. Dude, that's a cheap shot. Like the guy who hit Brady in the knee. I learned when I played football that you tackle a guy straight on, putting your shoulder through the numbers. It's more effective than arm tackles (just ask the Lions) and actually less dangerous regarding injury than any other kind of tackle. And people respect you more. Random question: If the professor can make a bomb out of a coconut and an extensive hot water system out of bamboo, why can't he just fix the boat and get them off the island?
jewelsboye wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 02:01 Hombre and anyone else who wants to chime in... I want to say first off that I am very much a Republican and very much conservative. I have a question though because I have heard this said before. When it comes to abortion, or homosexuality, etc., do you believe that you can be a Christian and a liberal Democrat by simply saying that you are not going to judge people and that everyone can choose what they want? That is the only reason I can think of that Obama and many other Democrats who are so called "religious" or "Christian" can justify being for those things. One would think that their personal beliefs would be against such things which the Bible says are an abomination. If you really wanted to win people over, why wouldn't you say that you didn't agree with it and thought it was wrong but that you are not here to judge, etc...? Does that excuse even work or have any merit? I guess I don't understand how someone can claim to be a Christian and still be for things that are clearly against your religion. Do people actually fall for it when they say they are Christian? What I think is dangerous is the idea that we should vote for someone just because they say they are a Christian, or even because they are a Christian. Martin Luther said, "I had rather a non-Christian ruler who was competent than a Christian ruler who was not." What we need to pray for are Christians who are called to be involved in politics who are competent, have integrity and who don't compromise the ethics of scripture. Difficult? Yes. Impossible? No. The same could apply to an auto mechanic, businessman, doctor or any other type of vocation. If we wear the name of Christ, we want to do the best job possible at work with integrity and wisdom. Daniel had an excellent spirit as he served in Darius' government. We can pray the same for Sarah Palin should she be elected. I understand why HEF and others taught why Christians should not be involved in government. I don't agree now, but I understand why. Too many Christians in this country have brought a bad name on Christ by claiming, "Vote for me, I'm a Christian!" Then they have gone on to lack integrity or cave into Rebuplican or Democratic interests and end up serving a party more than serving the people or God. Often times it becomes a mindset of, "A vote for a Republican is a vote for God." The Republican have manipulated the church to think this way, and many ungodly people have been voted into office because they slung around the right lingo, making themselves look righteous. Democrats have done the same, but few really believe them. HEF and others saw those problems and thought it best to just avoid politics altogether. I personally think that is too reactionary a position to take. But we need approach politics without aligning ourselves with any political party. George Washington warned against political parties in his farewell address to congress, because he thought that parties would undermine the democratic process. We Christian should not be owned by Republicans, even if we tend to agree with them more than Demos. I would love to see a Christian officeholder that is independent of parties so that a party platform is not identified with him or her being "Christian". What think you guys?
Jiz wrote: "I understand why HEF and others taught why Christians should not be involved in government. I don't agree now, but I understand why." "What think you guys?" Here's what this guy thinks; Amazed, is there anything that you embraced with joy as truth, when you heard it through Horbart Freeman, that you now agree with? Does Matt.13:20-21 make any sense to you in reguards to turning away from that which you once embraced? REALLY, IS THERE? btw: just wondering...not telling you what to believe or how to live your life... I know you won't respond to my post, but maybe it'll make you think.
Quote: Jae wrote :I understand why HEF and others taught why Christians should not be involved in government. I don't agree now, but I understand why. Too many Christians in this country have brought a bad name on Christ by claiming, "Vote for me, I'm a Christian!" Then they have gone on to lack integrity or cave into Rebuplican or Democratic interests and end up serving a party more than serving the people or God. Often times it becomes a mindset of, "A vote for a Republican is a vote for God." The Republican have manipulated the church to think this way, and many ungodly people have been voted into office because they slung around the right lingo, making themselves look righteous. Democrats have done the same, but few really believe them. HEF and others saw those problems and thought it best to just avoid politics altogether. I personally think that is too reactionary a position to take. But we need approach politics without aligning ourselves with any political party. George Washington warned against political parties in his farewell address to congress, because he thought that parties would undermine the democratic process. We Christian should not be owned by Republicans, even if we tend to agree with them more than Demos. Maybe you meant to end the thought after the first sentence ("I understand why HEF and others taught why Christians should not be involved in government. I don't agree now, but I understand why.") because the rest of your note doesn't jive with what he taught, nor does it explain why he taught what he taught. You go on and say "HEF and others saw those problems and thought it best to just avoid politics altogether." leaving the impression that the information you stated was what he thought and why he avoided politics. Your powers of divination have led you astray. As Hombre pointed out, HEF gave biblical reasons for the Christian not becoming involved in politics (two diametrically opposing kingdoms with no hope of reconciliation until the stone cut without hands destroys the world's kingdom.). I really question your obsessive need to continually peck at HEF's theology at the expense of a truthful portrayal of those teachings. There is nothing to be gained by this. Why not just leave HEF out of your perceptions and present what you believe to be the proper stance? You are not helping your cause. William
Thought you all might and then again maybe not be interested in what Dutch Sheets has to say about Religion, Politics and Sarah Palin... http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/09/06/dutch -sheets-on-religion-politics-and-sarah-palin/
Hey Grandom, After reading how de Dutch does it, maybe now I can start getting a higher sucess rate on my prayers. Let's see now, first I'll just go somewhere that has a big old 'big ben' clock and wait for it to get to be twenty four minutes after eleven o'clock...That'd be 11:24 as in Mark 11:24 and then pray for whatever I want and that's it. Well maybe I'd need to give it a double blind study...How bout if I line up the scripture in Proverbs 2:6 with the clock? At 2:06 I could claim wisdom and understanding and knowledge. This is fantastic, no more pouring over the scriptures and walking things out by faith, holding fast, just find that clock and line up the numbers and YeHaw, another gold nugget( you may request gold dust if you prefer) brought to us by the 'apostolic alliance'. Is this what they refer to as revelation?
Now you know the secret. Now you can change your answer to yes for prophet.
Quote: Let's see now, first I'll just go somewhere that has a big old 'big ben' clock... The key is finding a significant clock like big ben! Blessings, William
jewelsboye wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 09:42 Hombre, I love reading what you sometimes put in parenthesis down at the bottom of the post. It's like the prize in a cracker jack box almost. You're never sure what you'll get but it usually makes a person smile. I cannot get her to post, but my wife asked me this question: "If it's a "sin" to wear reading glasses in order to see Hombre's fine print, is it a "sin" to enlarge your text on your screen so you can see it?" I know most of you don't have a problem with people's choices in how they choose to read, but for those who do... well, as I think about it, you probably aren't even aware that Hombre sometimes does this, so never mind! Blessings, William
moulder wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 19:24 Quote: Jae wrote :I understand why HEF and others taught why Christians should not be involved in government. I don't agree now, but I understand why. Too many Christians in this country have brought a bad name on Christ by claiming, "Vote for me, I'm a Christian!" Then they have gone on to lack integrity or cave into Rebuplican or Democratic interests and end up serving a party more than serving the people or God. Often times it becomes a mindset of, "A vote for a Republican is a vote for God." The Republican have manipulated the church to think this way, and many ungodly people have been voted into office because they slung around the right lingo, making themselves look righteous. Democrats have done the same, but few really believe them. HEF and others saw those problems and thought it best to just avoid politics altogether. I personally think that is too reactionary a position to take. But we need approach politics without aligning ourselves with any political party. George Washington warned against political parties in his farewell address to congress, because he thought that parties would undermine the democratic process. We Christian should not be owned by Republicans, even if we tend to agree with them more than Demos. Maybe you meant to end the thought after the first sentence ("I understand why HEF and others taught why Christians should not be involved in government. I don't agree now, but I understand why.") because the rest of your note doesn't jive with what he taught, nor does it explain why he taught what he taught. You go on and say "HEF and others saw those problems and thought it best to just avoid politics altogether." leaving the impression that the information you stated was what he thought and why he avoided politics. Your powers of divination have led you astray. As Hombre pointed out, HEF gave biblical reasons for the Christian not becoming involved in politics (two diametrically opposing kingdoms with no hope of reconciliation until the stone cut without hands destroys the world's kingdom.). I really question your obsessive need to continually peck at HEF's theology at the expense of a truthful portrayal of those teachings. There is nothing to be gained by this. Why not just leave HEF out of your perceptions and present what you believe to be the proper stance? You are not helping your cause. William No, I understand that HEF taught non-resistance and non-involvement in politics from what he believed to be a Biblical basis. I understand all that and used to teach it myself. You are right, I did not make it clear and cut off my train of thought. I have to hurry to complete these posts during lunch time and went too fast apparently. However, even though HEF taught the traditional anabaptist view of non-involvement in government, he also expressed a lot of disgust toward those who were trying to make this country Christian through political power (the Moral Majority, etc...). He was concerned that politial power would weaken the spiritual authority of the church, and I agree with him on that matter. I also agree somewhat with his Anabaptist view of government non-involvement, but I don't see it as a hard and fast rule. I don't believe the Bible teaches it in a legalistic manner. I see room for some Christians to enter government office as a vocation, on a local, state or even federal level. It should be approached as a vocation, not a way to make the nation more Christian. I apologize for not making my point clear and making it look like HEF only taught that view out of a reaction to the trends of the time. I heard the teaching on non-resistance many times. I understand the basis for it. The point was actually not to oppose HEF's teaching in this case, but to point out where I agree with him on it. Christians need to avoid the temptation to try to gain political power. On that we agree.
james wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 16:13 William wrote: "The key is finding a significant clock like big ben!" Looking for a big ben clock has me SEARCHING EVERYWHERE... Remember the song, " What Becomes of the Brokenhearted" ? " I'll be looking everyday I know I'm gonna find a way Nothing's gonna stop me now I'll find a way somehow I'll be searching everywhere" Yes sir! It's a hard road... Hey! That's sorta like lining up numbers; getting song lyrics to have multiple meanings... And 'they' said us country boys was a beer or two short of a sixpack... I love that song! A couple years ago, I bought the DVD of "Standing in the Shadows of Motown", and Joan Osborne did an incredible rendition of it, live, with the surviving members of the Motown Studio band, the "Funk Brothers". It actually brought tears to my eyes, it was so powerful. I learned to play bass partly from listening to Motown, James Jamerson, and Bob Babbit, the two bass players that played with them (at different times, of course).
Sarah Palin quits, how shocking is that? What if the Republicians had won the election, would she have quit as Vice President? Hummm, wonder how everyone who is so adamant about Christians being part of the voting system feels about that... Let's just say for the sake of argument that you voted for McCain/Palin for President/Vice President, following your Republician party convictions; OK, we know God is sovereign and He appoints who He wants in office(right?), He allowed Barack Obama to become President of the US. Question, were you following the will of God by voting for McCain/Palin or were you voting against God's will. Next question: Will she run for President of the United States in 2012, and is that the reason she resigned as Governor of Alaska? Does anyone care? Or have the only ones who are into politics moved away...
James, I voted for McCain/Palin (reluctantly- lesser of two evils). Yes, I do believe that the Lord wants me to exercise my priviledge as a citizen and vote. It is not my job to figure out who the Lord will raise up. My job as a citizen in regards to voting is to vote for the person I think will do the best job. It is a standard biblical doctrine that God's sovereignty does not preclude our responsibility. The Lord is sovereign over who government leaders and representatives will be, but that does not negate our role in the process, just like with any other part of life. It does not mean that we should try to make America into a "Christian" country, which is a misunderstanding, nor does it mean that we should be tied to any political party or single issue. It does mean that we can verbalize our concerns to the rest of society about what is right and wrong and what is biblical. We are to be salt and light.
William, I am aware of the reasons why HEF thought that Christians should not vote or be involved in politics. He took the historical Anabaptist stance on the matter. I was not trying to bash him, and was in fact trying to explain that I sympathized with his position even though I did not agree. He quoted John 18 (my kingdom is not of this world) to show that we should not get involved in politics. He also pointed out the fallacies of the Moral Minority, and that is the argument that he made that I was focusing on in that post. I am aware of his more complete teaching on the matter and maybe I should have made it more clear that he was not just reacting against the trends of his day. However, I still believe that he was wrong, and that the scriptures he based that view on do not really teach that we should avoid all politics altogether. I actually think that he was closer to the truth on the matter than many evangelicals are today. We can't make any country into a "Christian" country. Our authority is not political. We musn't get to immersed in the political process, especially the national government. However, I do believe that God calls some people to serve in a political office as a vocation, just as a plumber or contractor or waiter is called by God to those various vocations. It is usually a temporary calling, but just as important as any other. In the future I will try to be more complete when taking an opposing stance to that of HEF for the reasons you stated.
jisamazed wrote on Fri, 03 July 2009 22:49 It does mean that we can verbalize our concerns to the rest of society about what is right and wrong and what is biblical. We are to be salt and light. Thanks for replying Jae, while I don't agree with your view on Christians becoming involved in politics, nor do I believe it to be our responsibility to participate in the affairs of government(you know the argument, which kingdom are we citizens of...no reason to go over that again). But I do agree with you that we are to be voice declaring the principles of God's Word and shining a light on the darkness that envelopes this nation. It does baffle me at times how two professing Christians can read God's Word; be taught God's Word; have The Holy Spirit to lead and guide them into all truth; and come to almost opposite conclusions as to what God want them to do as to applying those truths into their daily lives. Examples that I've witnessed lately are; voting, obedience to the sermon on the mount(bearing arms and defending oneself) taking people to court, what constitutes leagalism...and the list goes on and on...I know somebody's missing it somewhere, cause ya can't have it both ways. Anyway, it's too late at night to be hopping on and off soapboxes...err, peach crates.
Quote: James wrote: It does baffle me at times how two professing Christians can read God's Word; be taught God's Word; have The Holy Spirit to lead and guide them into all truth; and come to almost opposite conclusions as to what God want them to do as to applying those truths into their daily lives. Examples that I've witnessed lately are; voting, obedience to the sermon on the mount(bearing arms and defending oneself) taking people to court, what constitutes legalism...and the list goes on and on...I know somebody's missing it somewhere, cause ya can't have it both ways. Anyway, it's too late at night to be hopping on and off soapboxes...err, peach crates. :) You just said a mouthful! Most of us can 1) read God's Word, 2) many are taught God's Word, 3) many have the Holy Spirit to lead and guide, but 4) applying truth from God's Word to our daily lives? Now that requires that the first three steps are executed perfectly without making any fleshly mistakes and then you've got to apply the knowledge gained from reading and/or teaching to your situation --accurately! In theory we ought to be able to read the word and come to the right conclusion assuming that we understand the context (i.e. correct theology!) In theory if we have the first one down pat, we ought to be able to teach it accurately. In theory we don't even need to be able to read or to be taught if the Holy Spirit is leading and teaching us. (I understand the arguments and ramifications for not hanging too much on this since the Holy Spirit has both given us a reliable Word to read, and has set teachers in the Church, but if necessary He can lead us in a direct manner -1Jn2:27.) However, as human beings we tend to gravitate toward someone who will tell us how to apply it accurately without the need for careful examination. We tend to just take someone's word that a certain action is the 'Christian' thing to do, especially if we have confidence in the teacher. We do this whether we are talking about voting, taking up arms, or almost anything else we deem as good Christian doctrine. We impose our understanding on others without the slightest hesitation... after all, we are always right, right? I am not saying that we should make all issues a matter of personal preference or put everything into the subjective realm but at the very least we ought to make sure that what we hold to be a self-evident truth is really an objective truth that applies to all situations equally without qualification before we place the yoke on someone else. Oh how easy it would be if God had given us the 613 or so commandments (I read somewhere that this is how many laws the Jews had to cope with!) and there was no ambiguity in how to apply it to our lives! Think about this... Abraham had nothing to read and no teacher to teach him (apparently...) and yet he somehow attained the status: father of the faithful. (We acquire our faith by 'hearing and hearing by the Word of God'.) Abraham wasn't encumbered with knowledge that would have hindered him from obeying God by sacrificing Isaac. On the other hand Peter had a tough time squaring what he knew with God's command to 'kill and eat'. His practical application of what he thought he knew, was in fact a mis-application. How many times have we done the same sort of thing? Just to keep a balance I need to present the other side... Adam and Eve heard God say that they were not to eat of a certain tree and then failed miserably in applying that prohibition to their own lives! Some things are black and white; the key is knowing when it is black and white, and when more wisdom and understanding is needed before applying it universally to everyone else. To use an extreme example to make a point, Paul says: "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." Pretty absolute, right? We can now determine whether or not a person is saved by asking this question: Are you circumcised? You know, ("...and we know, and you know that we know, that this is nonsense!" --to quote from Daniel Hannon's speech-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lW6Y4tBXs) that this isn't a valid test, but it does highlight what we tend to do when we pick out a verse that we think is absolute and then make it universally applicable. My point in all of this is to say that we shouldn't be baffled when two Christians come to different conclusions about something that is 'plain as the hair on the back of our hands' <grin>. Who are you to judge the Patriotic Bible before you've read it? <grin> btw, I'm not smoking this cigarette... it's for lighting firecrackers! Have a great 4th of July EVERYBODY! William
Hey! Thanks for UN-BAFFLING me William... OBTW: I've not had a change of heart concerning bearing arms or celebrating america's rebellion...This .475 caliber Holland and Holland Nitro rifle is just to make a BIG boom to impress the neighbors... Ya know, we must keep up with the Jones's. Maybe I'll take the peach crate and use it for target practice, easy way to get some kindling for the fireplace. So when you finish reading your copy of The Patriot's Bible, maybe you'll let me borrow it...
james wrote on Sat, 04 July 2009 07:02 Hey! Thanks for UN-BAFFLING me William... Glad to be of service, James, but could you explain what I was saying so that I can be un-baffled too? I posted at 2:47AM and now I can't make heads or tails of what the author was attempting to say! ttyl, William
You know, the first thought I had was, was that a hand rolled cigarette(with homegrown herbs)that you wasn't smoking. Then I thought, no he's a fine Christian brother, I need to give him the benefit of the doubt, it's probably just sleep deprivation... Don't forget your sunshades today...the red glare of those rockets can be dangerous...not to mention the bombs bursting in air...
Well put post, William. We need to see these disagreements in light of growth. We are all growing and learning, and sometimes we stumble along the way and even go backwards a little, and other times we go forward with a lot of momentum. We will grow in the truth and come to a better understanding of these things over time. It is part of becoming more like Christ. That is why it is good to learn what are the different perspectives from genuine Christians on these various issues. We learn the various positions, and try to evaluate them in light of scripture. Often times a group will emphasize certain scriptures regarding the issue and neglect others or explain them off. Or a group will take some scripture further than they were intended to be taken. Part of our job in rightly dividing the word of truth is to consider the entirety of scriptural teaching on the matter, knowing that there are sometimes paradoxes in the Bible that we need to embrace. I believe that it was Martin Luther who said, "In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity." I'm glad for healthy dialogue about these matters.
Interesting that Sarah's old pastor prayed "for such a time as this" in the video clip that was posted at the beginning of this discussion board. Those words, "for such a time as this", were the words that the Lord put in my heart when I heard that she was selected to run as a vice president candidate. Sarah is under massive assult. I do believe that the Lord raised her up . . . in such a time as this. We are truly in the last days and she needs our prayers.
Hello Nel, Welcome and thanks for sharing; I agree that we are in the last days. I don't know if Sarah Palin is the Deborah of today or not, and I have questions about her quiting as governor of Alaska, but she (as well as all leaders) needs our prayers...in such a time as this...
I saw where Sarah Palin is on Oprah today, so I tuned in...Then I remembered my vow unto myself to never watch Oprah, so I cut it off. I know she's promoting a book she's written and wants to 'put herself out there', but it seems like a contradiction or compromise of 'Rebuplican values' to go on Oprah Winfrey. But hey! When The Queen calls... btw: I think Oprah Winfrey is one of the most dangerous people on earth, due to her TV show (and other media outlets) ability to influence millions of people with her humanistic religion.
"But hey! When The Queen calls..." By james Here is another one who is going to be REAL surprised someday as to which line they are in. I have not been able to watch her in quite awhile. Yep, TV is pretty bad these days. HEY!!! Here is a novel thought! Let's just get rid of them.....again. I really have been thinking about it with grandkids. It did not hurt mine not having one for 12 years. If anything, I see them turning channels away from occult, violence, sex, etc. Time is getting shorter and shorter....everyday, I do all I can to "line up" to the Word. He is faithful to finish that good work in me. Blessings, GWB
Hey, James, You spoke my exact thoughts! Take an ax to that thing . . . . you won't miss it one bit and then you won't have to worry about what to watch and what not to watch. Makes like sooooo much more simple.
Hi Nanaspiana, And welcome to OvercomersOnline, thanks for the suggestion, I'll take it into consideration. I trashed a couple back in 1980 and didn't have one for about 10 years. Thankfully, I know how to turn it on and off and change channels. But you're right in that it wouldn't be missed, even if it is an expensive 55" HDTV. It's like this computer, you have to guard what you watch, there's trash available everywhere if a person wants to view it, I don't. I would never try justifying anything that draws anyone away of their relationship with Jesus or undermines God's Word. One thing I've noticed lately, the few channels that I thought were pretty much OK, like the Discovery, History, TLC, Foodnetwork, ect. there is the assumption that 'evolution' is true, you hear them say regularly 5 million years ago this happen, or when our ancestors lived in the so & so ago, 30 million years ago. It doesn't influence me (i hope) but if I had children or grandchildren around, I'd definately get rid of it. Even football has been getting boring lately...I didn't even cut it on yesterday....Opps, sounds like justification. If The Lord puts it on my heart to do so, it'll be no problem. Again welcome, and if you get a chance, maybe you could introduce yourself...
GWB wrote on Mon, 16 November 2009 17:44 Yep, TV is pretty bad these days. HEY!!! Here is a novel thought! Let's just get rid of them.....again. I really have been thinking about it with grandkids. It did not hurt mine not having one for 12 years. If anything, I see them turning channels away from occult, violence, sex, etc. O.K. Good idea...So I did...(disconnect them, not destroy them...don't have an axe ) It takes a few weeks to adjust and for the withdrawal symptoms to clear up, but after that...life goes on. Actually I find that I miss constant access to the internet more than TV. Not to imply or give the impression that I NEVER watch TV or access the internet, Duh! I still watch a football game or two. And I'm not trying to tell anyone else what to do, it's a heart thing...I might change my mind again someday...after all, I didn't have one for 10 years through the 80's, and decided to start watching again. We have to be careful that what we do isn't from a legalistic mindset but from the heart and done in faith. Now, back to the subject of this thread, Sarah Palin. If she's a christian, and she says she is; and Hilary Clinton is a christian, and she says she is...what if they both run for the presidency of the USA? Any thoughts?
james wrote on Thu, 16 September 2010 10:27 Now, back to the subject of this thread, Sarah Palin. If she's a christian, and she says she is; and Hilary Clinton is a christian, and she says she is...what if they both run for the presidency of the USA? Any thoughts? I believe as DR Freeman taught that a "Christian" would not nor could not be in politics. If he didnt teach that then that`s my convictions. BTW. That includes voting.
I believe my position regarding politics and voting has already been established, but for the record...I vote nay....to voting. I just found it interesting thought, Hilary verses Sarah in 2012.
I understand completely. I go back to Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Works wonders for me.
Quote: Do you really think that 'someone' would lurk? Surely not, why that'd be hypocritical. Quote: At least you get some of your posts on that site. Most of us were deleted by la cobarde, no explanation or warning. But thats what cobarde`s do. I haven't posted on any site for a while, but since people have been posting on this particular thread I have been getting emails with the new posts. I guess I signed up to receive them at some point. With that being said, I have to say that I am wondering why some of these comments are made here. I think I know who is being referred to, but even if I don't, I doesn't matter. What I have drawn from reading the little side notes or comments in these posts in my email the past few days is that people on this board believe that someone else from somewhere else is reading here and not posting. If that is the case, why make comments that are sure to aggravate? Why try to irritate someone or get their blood to rise a little? It is disappointing to see this on a board with people who know better, who are supposed to be light and the example. I am sure that there is a history that I know nothing about and for whatever that is, I am sorry. I still feel that regardless, we are all called to rise above the situation; and not point to someone else and say they aren't doing what they should either. It's like when you are a child and are told to go to bed. You know you are supposed to go to bed but since your brother gets up you do too. Then when questioned, your response is to say that your brother was up too. That still doesn't make it okay for you to be out of bed. We should not provoke another person purposely. I am sorry if I sound harsh. That is not my intent. I am merely posting this in an attempt to perhaps get others to think about their motives for what they say before they say it (or type it). By the way... If Hillary and Sarah were to run against each other in the next election, it would probably be the poorest voter turnout to date.
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010, Jewelsboye wrote: Quote: > > I haven't posted on any site for a while, but since people have been posting on this > particular thread I have been getting emails with the new posts. I guess I signed up > to receive them at some point. With that being said, I have to say that I am > wondering why some of these comments are made here. I think I know who is being > referred to, but even if I don't, I doesn't matter. What I have drawn from reading > the little side notes or comments in these posts in my email the past few days is > that people on this board believe that someone else from somewhere else is reading > here and not posting. If that is the case, why make comments that are sure to > aggravate? Why try to irritate someone or get their blood to rise a little? It is > disappointing to see this on a board with people who know better, who are supposed > to be light and the example. > > I am sure that there is a history that I know nothing about and for whatever that > is, I am sorry. I still feel that regardless, we are all called to rise above the > situation; and not point to someone else and say they aren't doing what they should > either. It's like when you are a child and are told to go to bed. You know you are > situation; and not point to someone else and say they aren't doing what they should > either. It's like when you are a child and are told to go to bed. You know you are > supposed to go to bed but since your brother gets up you do too. Then when > questioned, your response is to say that your brother was up too. That still doesn't > make it okay for you to be out of bed. > > We should not provoke another person purposely. I am sorry if I sound harsh. That is > not my intent. I am merely posting this in an attempt to perhaps get others to think > about their motives for what they say before they say it (or type it). > Ouch! (But thanks, we needed it!) Quote: > > By the way... > > If Hillary and Sarah were to run against each other in the next election, it would > probably be the poorest voter turnout to date. > I'm not so sure about that. Both excite their nemeses into unheard of levels of extremism (not to mention their followers!<grin>) Blessings, William
moulder wrote on Fri, 17 September 2010 20:40 Ouch! (But thanks, we needed it!) I apologize and repent, I DO know better. I will never mention or refer to that situation on this forum again... unless it's in the form of a testimony that gives glory to God. james
james wrote on Sat, 18 September 2010 14:23 moulder wrote on Fri, 17 September 2010 20:40 Ouch! (But thanks, we needed it!) I apologize and repent, I DO know better. I will never mention or refer to that situation on this forum again... unless it's in the form of a testimony that gives glory to God. james I shouldn't have included all of you in my response but I know that *I* needed the admonishment! On a separate note--are you watching the Crimson Tide as it flows over the unwashed masses of NC? <grin> Blessings, William
The 'shoe' fit, so I had to wear it... No, I didn't watch Alabama, I disconnected my cable service a couple months ago(TV & Internet). I really don't miss TV very often, but I did have to adjust to a limited internet access. We have a media center that I can come to and either use their computers or bring my laptop and use their wireless feed. Tonight I am keeping an eye on the Auburn game(streaming video, ESPN3). Not to give the impression that I have came to the conclusion that I'll never watch TV again, I haven't,(I visited a friend to watch Auburn/Miss.St. last week) I just grew tired of paying $125 a month for a product that I had trouble 'finding something worth watching'...that's with 300-400 channels. And like I said in the above post, I'm in no way trying to influence anyone else.
I know what you mean about the TV... we cut our satellite off a couple of years ago and haven't missed it at all. I do have an antenna to pick up the broadcast stations (when I can get them) and I can usually pick up 2 games on Sunday. For some reason ABC was clear today and I got to watch the blowout! I have it out on the patio due to reception issues which means that I have to be really interested to sit outside in the weather! I get all of the news I can stomach from the internet and radio. Blessings, William
Hello Julie, Good to hear from you again. I have seen some of your postings on another site and have enjoyed what you share. Sure would like to see you post somemore and give us a chance again. There is not always alot of postings every day, but there are some very wise people who post here. As you can see, not perfect, but certainly teachable and who desire to do and be what Jesus would like us to be. It's kinda strange, that people I have never seen or talked to would mean so much to me, brothers and sisters who I can look to for encouragement and admonishment when needed. Everyday the Lord speaks to me through these people. Why? Because they hear and know the voice of the Holy Spirit and desire to be pleasing to the Lord. So, consider giving us a try again.
Sage wrote on Tue, 21 September 2010 04:54 It's kinda strange, that people I have never seen or talked to would mean so much to me, brothers and sisters who I can look to for encouragement and admonishment when needed. Everyday the Lord speaks to me through these people. Why? Because they hear and know the voice of the Holy Spirit and desire to be pleasing to the Lord. Actually Sue it`s not so strange. 1 Thes 4:9 NIV Now about brotherly love we do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other. Bless you for learning the lesson well. Be blessed